Guild Wars 2

About me: Im new into the WvW commander buisness. I think i started out about 6 months ago by doing small deeds with the people who followed me such as flipping towers and killing few people.

When time passed on i slowly started to also do some minor blob killing and finaly went over to huge blob fights. Sometimes i got wiped with the people who followed me, sometimes we even had great success and did some amazing jobs (3-ways fights, flipping fully upgraded SM and so on and on).
But theres one thing that i have most of the times had a hard time being used to- the number of people following me in TS (which personaly means a lot more for me then the ppl who arent following me in TS). When i started then it was about 10-15 if i was lucky and when i got better in commanding then it increased to atleast 25-35 people regulary. In best and rare moments ive had up to 45+ people following me.

Though that came to an end. I dont know what happened, maybe the tournament ended but the number of people who are willing to follow me now has droped to 15 in TS if im lucky.
I cant get any numbers at all and im often interested in blob fights instead of flipping some towers for the 10000th time. But leading pugs with low numbers to take on small groups or a blob isnt the same as leading a guild raid and cause of that i have had high excpectations and we often got wiped out. Which also has decreased my “popularity” by a lot.

Now heres the real problem and some have mentioned to me- “Your voice is just ugghh. Theres no enthusiasm at all.” And even recently i got told “Your voice makes people suicide”. When i heared this in the beginning then i just tried to ignore them, eventhough i knew they were/are right. But now i just dont know what to do…

Its not like i have the power to change my own voice. I just dont see it possible. It also feels quite downgrading when some other commander tags up and he manages to draw in from double to triple the number of people into TS compared to my current number. Even taging in prime time wont get me nowhere. Makes me feel like im a complete nobody.
Often i have felt annoyed how some other few commanders “have shined into my face” about how succesful they are and sometimes even asked me something like: “I can take over if you cant handle” which seems like a insult cause i often lead with 2-3x less people then they do and im quite sure i have proven to people who have followed me how capable i am of commanding in small groups and what i can actualy do when i get a decent sized blob following my tag.

To some it all up- im a almost washed up WvW commander, who has a ugly voice, who has low amount of followers and who very often prefers doing blob fights instead of doing the regular karma train. And im close to abandoning the one thing that keeps me in GW2 and which i love the most- commanding pugs who sometimes make you feel like you want to pull your hair out, lol.

Share your opinions, give some advice, rage.

Was expecting a bel-air finish at the end, but this is just sad.

I’d say hang in there and wait for the new living story to kick in. The boss grind will be gone and people will likely have events they’ll enjoy a couple times rather than spending all their time repeating for tokens, and then they’ll hop back into wvw.

Though, the tournament meta achievements definitely bring in a lot more people.

Idk. Good luck. I hope something works out for you.

The numbers have drastically dropped it seems after s2 so I wouldn’t take it personal. Even in T1, most of the time, the maps are outnumbered. I think most people also will inevitably follow a more well known commander as opposed to one they don’t see tag up to often. I’m guilty of that myself, but I don’t often get in TS either and often I find I’m better off out of TS. I’m sure there are many other WvW’ers out there who are the same.

Huge respect as a pug to anyone willing to tag up and lead a map, You got it harder than a raid leader in my opinion, no leverage over players to join TS, run appropriate build etc and when it goes wrong you know you’ll hear from the armchair commanders in chat. You said you’ve been doing it for ~6 months no wonder you feel a bit burned out. So respect for having the nerve to do it in the first place.

I’d say if you’re enjoying what you’re doing and still have followers keep doing it. Try not to fixate on things you cannot change, when you win you’ll know you did it the hard way. As soon as it feels like a chore take a break and then you can come back to it refreshed no need to make anything final.

People remember you as a commander for your commanding style and personality, but the average wvwer will follow you for the amount of loot and how many objectives you cap – the dedicated wvwers follow and support you because they understand. The problem is 100g for many is easy to gain, so you can get some bad commanders that makes the Pugs lose respect for the tag..

Not everyone is going to be a popular or successful commander to be fair because it’s hard work, but you shouldn’t give up, comparing yourself to other commanders who draw more numbers isn’t going to help.

I wouldn’t give up, running a havoc or sniper team that plays more strategically feels more satisfying even though you may get blobbed alot.

Otherwise take a break and come back when people are more inclined to follow you for the good reasons you tag up for. There are times that I’ve felt a bit ‘sensitive’ about my voice, but people learned to appreciate my effort.
Just don’t rage and embrace your army of pugs as a pugmander.

Also don’t listen to the negative people who think they could do better when they probably wouldn’t be able to handle the pressure!

Commanding.

I respect anyone who can pin up and command a map, it’s not an easy job.

I want to say a few things if I may, with the idea that perhaps some of my points resonate with you.

Firstly, I have no idea of your voice. Have you ever recorded your voice and listened to it? Some self-analysis and improvement is always a good thing but ultimately it’s your voice and you should embrace it. There’s also alternatives, some commanders have become incredibly effective using map chat only, if u feel its that big of an issue.

Tournament finish has definitely seen less people on maps. It was the same after season 1, everyone was burned out so this will mean less people out there.

Most commanders I know respect one another. I’m not sure what the situation is like on your server but the situation you described sounds like the other commander was inflating his own ego. A good commander wont try and rub it in your face, they don’t need to, everyone knows they’re good. An average commander is more likely to.

Ultimately the people following you want to ‘win’. Some commanders play for fights, others for ppt, so long as they ‘win’ in that objective they will get people following them. Look for ways to improve that ‘win’. This takes time and takes perseverance but that momentum is important because it’s how you improve and how others respond to you.

Also don’t be afraid to transfer from a server, up or down. Do some research and you might be happy with a change.

Anyways, hope some of that helped. Best of luck.

Something that might help is joining a more casual wvw guild, or even pvx guild, and running guildmates around in wvw. That way you can run tagged or tagless, but you’d have a group devoted to following you. As far as voices, I don’t find it appropriate at all to comment. I think it definitely helps boost morale to listen to a commander who is confident, enthusiastic and sounds like they’re having fun. People also appreciate being recognized, so calling them out for things they’re doing properly is just as important as offering advice when you see room for improvement. And be positive, get the ts participants involved. For example if you wipe, ask them if they want to try again or move on to another area/map.

The alternative is moving servers to start over fresh. Find a nice guild willing to support you and follow you.

I wouldn’t normally post in threads like these but your post made me sad ;-;

I also have been considering completely stopping my pugmanding –
I’ve got more than 1500 hours of tagged time and like you, commanding is one of the only reasons I still play the game. End of season 2 has caused a tidal wave of restructuring on my server, folks are simply not coming out to play.

this has led to a lot of frustration and cynicism on my part, as it stands I’m more inclined to watch my server burn down one, two tiers than put myself through the struggle of pugmanding when the “armchair commanders” who do not nut up and tag up both: do not follow you, pull militia away from the tag, and second guess all your decisions in /t or /m, which confuses the hell out of the militia who just want loot.

people who have told you that “your voice is like ughhhh” should go run into a glass door. That’s one of the worst justifications i’ve ever heard to not follow a commander.

Move to a more populated server, join a larger guild and learn the art of “Winning”.

Open field fights particularly challenging ones are fun but pugs don’t follow commanders that get repeatedly wiped. If you lose either in open field or taking an objective, immediately reform and take a few easy objectives. Popular pug commanders also karma train occasionally. Sure it isn’t that fun but it builds a positive relationship with the pugs. Think of it is advertising. Do it long enough and when your tag pops on the map, players will join you even from PvE because they know they can be a “Winner” simply following your Dorito.

I just logged in to say, I know your position. In different games I used to lead groups in PvP both small and large. Unfortunately my voice and accent has a way of making people ’stress out’ and they eventually find this annoying. I’ve heard all the insults you can imagine, but I never cared, because ultimately if you get consistent results, people generally act more mature just to ensure they can stay around.

The bottom line is, if you’re good at leading and also enjoying it, keep doing it. Anyone that gets in your way, you simply tell to ’kitten off’, as it is not like there is really that many people excited about leading in WvW, or any game for that matter. More likely than perhaps you realize however, you’re suffering from a burnout, something that comes quickly for most people from leading, which also means you generally take insults harder, which probably eventually made you write this post in a moment of doubt.

Either take a break, or continue leading if you think you can still enjoy it. Remember, you’re the commander, you do the work of many, you get the results. Everyone else is just a peon in your game, and very expendable. Don’t lead for a bunch of kittens, but lead for yourself and the people you consider to be friends.

“Now heres the real problem and some have mentioned to me- “Your voice is just ugghh. Theres no enthusiasm at all.” And even recently i got told “Your voice makes people suicide”. When i heared this in the beginning then i just tried to ignore them, eventhough i knew they were/are right. But now i just dont know what to do…”

People make fun of commanders’ voices all the time. It’s generally just good-natured ribbing, i.e. people make outrageous statements that are meant to be obviously way over the top and ignored/laughed at. I am not the one receiving these comments, but it sounds to me like you are taking things seriously that you should be ignoring or laughing at.

Personality makes a big difference, whether you’re light hearted and joking or serious/swearing, congratulating/praising for good work, encouraging when things go wrong. Speaking confidently/decisively. In other words, morale management. If you are taking jokes about your voice so seriously that you start using expressions like “washed-up commander with an ugly voice” and “Abandoning the only thing I love” about an online video game, then that is probably a way bigger issue to your followers than the sound of your voice. Especially if you are telling your TS followers about your confidence issues – nobody wants to follow a depressed and insecure leader because it makes them feel depressed and insecure too.

EDIT: Straegen posted what I was going to say at first. Pugs follow commanders who ‘win’, not people who lead them into meat grinders. Wiping once is usually OK, but wiping 2-3 times in a row without taking any objectives will quickly bleed away all followers and prevent them from coming back in the future. Karma trains and easy objectives will keep pug interest up.

Hamster.4861:

“armchair commanders”

I always try and back up a commander against these non-commander commanders. I find them particularly irritating because you know they’ll NEVER pin themselves and yet they feel their ideas are somehow a kind of revelation that commanders need to act on.

Emissary.3792:

Personality makes a big difference, whether you’re light hearted and joking or serious/swearing, congratulating/praising for good work, encouraging when things go wrong. Speaking confidently/decisively. In other words, morale management.

This and so much this. People management. There’s a lot more to commanding militia than spending 100g and putting up a tag. I’d also add in “conversation management”. If there’s no one else speaking in your channel other than you, try to start up a conversation with a few others in the channel.

Use voice-changer software.
(Grab a Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card), all software included.

You’ll sound like a total bad-kitten , even with your mind-numbingly ugly voice.

I’d probably divide pugging WvW into three broad groups:

Group 1 – The serious / somewhat serious players. They generally run proven builds, know what they are doing, get on TS, and follow commanders that know what they are doing. Unfortunately this is usually the minority.

Group 2 – The gadflies. Can be any type of player from good to terrible, but they really only get on TS to laugh and socialize (probably the type of players you have having issues with).

Group 3 – The true pugs. Run terrible builds, don’t get on TS, rally bot, constantly have to be micro-manged, and quit when it’s anything more difficult than lightly defended PvD.

It’s tough though not being a celebrity pugmander. No one really appreciates the less prominent commanders that do the more menial task and don’t get to be the heroes leading a map zerg around blobbing through everything. Usually they get burnt out and quit fairly quickly, and then people wonder why the server is tanking if other commanders don’t replace them.

Having said all that though, you do have to make an effort to make it fun and encourage people do better, and slap people on the back when it is going well even if you don’t want to. Sacrx level screaming and raging is not the way to go, but neither is being silent most of the time. It’s a balancing act few do well.

Don’t gauge yourself by TS ….I never…EVER do TS. But I follow commanders I know and I’m a good follower.

You could try Commanding in EotM. Due to the nature of the place, most Comms there will run with no voice comms at all and just give instructions in chat. It’s also a lot more relaxed since nobody’s really fighting for PPT there, and if your zerg gets wiped, everybody just regroups back at the safe zone and heads to another less-populated corner of the map.

I feel your pain about the difference in guild raids to pugs zergs…

10 guildies push 15-20 people and win.
20 pugs push onto 20 pugs and the winner is decided by who had the least uplevels lol..

I make the mistake many a time to tell people to kill AC’s in a tower just to die ontop of enemy AC while whole zerg is getting farmed by ac’s trying to kill the lord.

Eh, pugmanding is tough but it’s what keeps the server running. Pugmanders gotta have a thick skin and real passion for leading in WvW, even when there’s nothing going on. Just gotta deal with it

game will use typical ebg blobber…what a sad news….NOT.

Ehy mate, i do WvW only with my guild or in solo roaming but everytime i’m with them i ask to turn on the Music Bot, i do it because of my commander voice, he sound like he is goin to die from one moment to another, boriiiiiing!

There is one thing that people like about a commander voice: ENTHUSIASM.

If you sound like you’re smoking marijuana and falling asleep while leading people in a fight, you’re doin it wrong.

The whole idea of the videogames like this is to feel the fight like you are one of the soldiers in the carnage, and you do not want your boss talking like he is a prozac addicted.

Go watch 300, then you’ll have an idea of how a commander should make his comrades feel

Mijo.3274:

If you sound like you’re smoking marijuana and falling asleep while leading people in a fight, you’re doin it wrong.

LOL! This comment reminds me of one night a guy using c-comms in the most unenthusiastic voice that rivaled Ben Stein let us all know of a keep under attack and how many enemy there were. Yea, lemme jump on that right away. /sarcasm

I admire anyone who tags up and leads. Whether they have a good or bad voice.

Most people are sheep. They like being led, enjoy being led, being told what to do but unfortunately unlike sheep they need to be entertained, encouraged, cajoled, stroked.

Its one reason I quit teaching. Not only do you need to teach, you need to be an entertainer.

Leading is not an easy thing to do.

If the voice thing is really bothering you and you want to keep leading I’d seriously do what someone suggested above. Record yourself and practice speaking. Speaking well is one thing that you can change.

if the Tag knows what he is doing and calling stuff at the right time granting me and the group stays alive, i dont see any reason to say anything besides a GG.

I’m usually commanding with /say chat.

People will start following while you are leading in a logical pattern.
When you’re movements are saying more that you are saying in the chat. You will never need teamspeak.

Except for Guild runs.

I love running w/ Militia (the ones you call “pugs”) & mixed guilds. Always have…I think it embodies the heart of an MMO and meeting new players. I do have my guild as the core of my group, however. That said, I have seen some folks pull off pugmanding, others…so-so. I can’t believe your voice is that bad, but I have to agree with those that say it is largely personality and, perhaps, a heavy focus on attitude.

I was listening to a new commander recently, which had asked for assistance. I sent them PM’s on occasion, as they kept saying/ asking, “Can we take North camp next…umm, can we have someone go check Garry?” Can, can?" I explained all they needed to do, in order to take control was rephrase; “I need 3 volunteers to x up for North camp now, please…” Etc. Polite, friendly, positive: get the job done. They were unsure, asking…not taking the lead.

Not sure if any of this applies, but hope it helps and best of luck.

Wtf? Insecure kittenes that can’t go find bags on their own have no right to insult people’s voices and nobody is under any responsibility to entertain those people. Sounds like a direct trip to the blocked list.

In any cases, yes, the mobs demand bread and circuses, so to speak. Which can be hard to provide, but you really just need to find your own core of regulars in case the rest are uncooperative. Otherwise, it’ll just be no fun. Even if you have only a dozen followers, you can still make an impact.

I would not still be playing this game (and having a blast btw) if it were not for a few of IoJ’s commanders. Anyone who thinks otherwise itsn’t relevant.

I mostly solo roam and scout, and rarely follow commanders, but there is one commander who I always follow when I see him tag up in the borderlands, and I even fire up TS for him. Why? Well, it isn’t his voice, to be sure – someone once said he sounds like an airline pilot, because of his speaking tone and rhythm. There’s nothing wrong with his voice, of course, we all sound different.

What makes me follow him is his manner when he leads. He never refers to people as “scrubs” (as one cmdr I know is prone to do). If things go kittens up, he doesn’t spend the next five minutes raging over what went wrong (“you need to stack on me when I say so, guys, come on!”) but instead he mentions something we, his followers, did right, and if he feels he led us into an objective beyond our numbers/capability then he may even say “that was my fault, sorry guys” but he doesn’t dwell on it.

Another thing he does that’s extremely important is that he always tells us where we are going and what we’re going to do. This way I am not just following a dorito on the map trying to figure out where we’re going. He is also not one of those commanders who feel the need to provide rapid-fire instructions in the style of “veilveilveilveilveilveilveilveildodgedodgedodgedodgedodgedodge”. He tells us when to charge, retreat, basic stuff, but he trusts us to know how to dodge without his express instruction. I know this works for some people but on a borderland channel it drowns out scout reports and other critical information.

Finally, never, ever, ever tag off in a rage. If you’re kittened off beyond belief, still tell people that was all the time you had, ask (rhetorically as case may be) if anyone could take over, thank people for participating, and then tag off. If you tag off in a rage after a failed objective, it will be remembered ten times longer than a hundred successful runs.

I think we always make jokes from each other’s voice/accent I’m not a commander but I’m always on the TS and like to be a bit more active there than a common peon. Sometimes it backfires since I have strange/funny accent. One of the commanders couldn’t understand a single thing I said. But only he. So he delegated his girlfriend as an english/english translator and refered me as a “Klingon”
“Klingon please take your team to north camp and get it! Thanks”

Typical commander phrases like BUFFME-BUFFME! Dodgethru-dodgethru getting to be kind of jokes in our guild. Nobody takes it seriously. We are from many countries our age is different so is our gender.

Just don’t give up and do not take it seriously!