Guild Wars 2

I’m not defending it, I have stated that if you want people to avoid abusing it have Anet make thieves have more incentive to play other builds, but every time that’s happened they got nerf ed and players defaulted to stealth since so much of the classes survivability is tied to it, as I said I run S/D but that’s from playing since launch I was able to adapt and even then I’m hardpressed since most classes have passive survivability built into their class that doesn’t suck compared to what Thieves have at their disposal. The only thing I was defending was when Thieves find some way to be viable and not a free kill everyone yells nerf, heck if Anet redesigned stealth overall and took a better approach I would be happy but everyone would still call it OP.

Until Anet offers a better option or tradeoff I don’t see it going anywhere anytime soon which is the sad realization. All I see people yell is nerf with no constructive way to make it happen besides just taking it away without actually balancing anything.

To say there is no counter play to this is a lie, hell 2 classes have reveal, there is a trap for reveal, you can actively sit in and make sure the BP stealth spam doesn’t go off, you can knock back out of SR, are things people like to ignore, you would think that with 4 classes that use stealth, 2 of them that use it so much more than others people would have a reveal or another way to negate stealth, but they don’t because there is a "better" option, if these classes and stealth are such a huge issue would you not run the reveal or counter play to it? No you would rather cry nerf. Yes Trapper runes and Ghost Thieves can be seen as abusive, so offer up a better alternative. But each class have abusive synergies that they employ.

Raven.9603:

Offair.2563:

A while ago Anet changed the thief a bit so they couldnt have access to the ridicilous perma stealth. Then they revamped the trapper runes so they wont reveal anymore when enemies trigger the traps. Do you guys at Anet’s office ever took thief trap in account when making this change? Apparantly not because the stealth now is even more ridicilous then it was ever before.

You can consider this post as a rant one and i am not asking for a thief nerf, but a revert/removal of these trapper runes. Why arent they allowed in Spvp? Cause it would make players going /sigh there? Why are they allowed in WvW then.

WvW is the live beta test area for PvP that never gets cleaned up.

We get stuck with Dire, Perplexity, etc, and when they fail and are deemed too strong for sPvP no one comes back around and says “maybe we should take that crap out of WvW”.

You’re not wrong. I sometimes wonder why I spend any time dueling in WvW, as it is a playground of the things deemed imbalanced for organized PvP. With food on top of that. It’s too bad I’m addicted to the chaotic, unknown adventures that will happen out in WvW, even if they are often frustrating.

EDIT – Ghost Thief makes Thieves viable? D/P and P/P aren’t viable anymore? S/D isn’t viable because it takes a modicum of effort? It doesn’t take 3 years to be able to play S/D, it just takes a bit of effort, of which the other Thief builds don’t really require.

But anyway, what is a Ghost Thief viable to do now that you couldn’t before?

Most thief builds can’t 1v1 in the least unless they are more skilled then their opponent, or use Gimmicky Stealth builds which people QQ about because Stealth.
hell instead of changing the thief traps change the Trapper Runes themselves, would amount to the same thing, apply an ICD. Remember the Trapper Runes were in the game before the Devs removed direct damage from thief traps.

I could care less how they change this, I don’t use traps or stealth often so it doesn’t effect me in the least.

Cogbyrn.7283:

EDIT – Ghost Thief makes Thieves viable? D/P and P/P aren’t viable anymore? S/D isn’t viable because it takes a modicum of effort? It doesn’t take 3 years to be able to play S/D, it just takes a bit of effort, of which the other Thief builds don’t really require.

But anyway, what is a Ghost Thief viable to do now that you couldn’t before?

All builds but D/P were nerfed in June. And even D/P is mediocre in comparison with other classes’ power creep. D/D not viable because the traits required for it are in the same tier, P/D not viable because of the same reason and because bleeding and poison is relatively weak and because ricochet was removed. P/P was never viable to start with, S/D isn’t viable since the removal of feline grace.

Ghost thief is a troll build which becomes boring fast – that’s why no one used it, I guess.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Chaba.5410:

Jana.6831:

Chaba.5410:

It’s already been qq’d about multiple times. No it doesn’t have to do with “being built around stealth” either. Your statement begs the question just what do you think engineer is “built around”?

Read a bit about thief traits – most of it is tied to stealth – take that away and thief has got no access to condi cleanse, regeneration, damage migation and so on.
Engi might have access to stealth but the class can well live without it, just like rangers and mesmers.

Not entirely true. If you make your build completely reliant on Shadow Arts, that’s your weakness. And you didn’t address my statement regarding thief having the best access to stealth.

So you are saying to completely ignore a whole trait line that is so let dependent on stealth.

No I didn’t say that, but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

Cogbyrn.7283:

S/D isn’t viable because it takes a modicum of effort?

The thief expert in my guild runs S/D. XD

Trapper runes are broken on pretty much any trap condi build at the moment. Obviously, they are especially broken on a thief. Fixing thief to make other builds more viable however will not stop people from playing these broken/overpowered thief builds. Some people just want to win end of story.

Although, reverting some of the recent changes to thief could bring a bit more diversity to thief builds at the moment…. *Cough acro… *Cough.

But all that being said, people will still run trapper condi thieves as long as they exist in the game. Personally, i think that they should never have changed the fact that traps reveal when they are triggered.

Jana.6831:

All builds but D/P were nerfed in June. And even D/P is mediocre in comparison with other classes’ power creep. D/D not viable because the traits required for it are in the same tier, P/D not viable because of the same reason and because bleeding and poison is relatively weak and because ricochet was removed. P/P was never viable to start with, S/D isn’t viable since the removal of feline grace.

Ghost thief is a troll build which becomes boring fast – that’s why no one used it, I guess.

Please add traits and numbers to that because DP was buffed massively in survivability by getting 25% damage reduction in stealth, shadow rejuvenation and a slightly toned down version of ini regen with stealth on steal. It also was able to run both panic strikes and executioner, something they had to choose between pre patch which was a DP thieves wet dream till they realised improvisation allows for a chance at getting all utilities back.

There’s also a lot of damage mods that were just folded in baseline as far as I know like dual training and the dagger training.

In contrast a mesmers burst is about the same now (under ideal circumstances) as it was pre patch despite getting better use of vulnerability. This is because they no longer get illusionary elasticity benefit on great sword and there’s now a condition attached to the shatter trait. They gained added defence but then so did thief.

As for math proof, go look at my post history, it’s easy to find as its big blocks of math, normally I’d link it but tablet and it’s pretty easy to find.

As for old Feline Grace and SD, when coupled with old vigor it meant you regen dodges in 2.5s which when you coupled it with the teleports on sword and evades on SD and the build in general it made for a very forgivable play style for such a low investment. Now if I get beaten by an SD thief I know they had to time their dodges, before they could spam them for no reason and get all the rewards with a quick escape if they really fluffed up.

apharma.3741:

snip

Play thief a bit, will you? =)
Sorry, but I guess you know that the thief forums are full of “evidence” and I’m tired to explain. – 25% damage is nothing compared to what other classes can do. And that only counts while in stealth (reveal traits) if you’d know D/P you’d know that they’re the hardest to hit thieves anyway.

Jana.6831:

apharma.3741:

snip

Play thief a bit, will you? =)
Sorry, but I guess you know that the thief forums are full of “evidence” and I’m tired to explain. – 25% damage is nothing compared to what other classes can do. And that only counts while in stealth (reveal traits) if you’d know D/P you’d know that they’re the hardest to hit thieves anyway.

I have played thief “a bit” I have also played plenty of other classes. -25% damage reduction is nothing to be sniffed at especially as a minor when the current way to find a thief is hit thin air and watch your auto chain or AoE and hope.

As for the thief forums its full of whiney little kittens that wouldn’t be happy even if they could 1v20 with a one shot kill and would go around crying “kitten kitten , l2p nubz”.

Hell that fact that they genuinely believe a thief cannot perma stealth and that a mesmer still has more stealth than a thief (even after PU reversion) is proof enough of the moronic cesspool of that place.

apharma.3741:

I have played thief “a bit” I have also played plenty of other classes. -25% damage reduction is nothing to be sniffed at especially as a minor when the current way to find a thief is hit thin air and watch your auto chain or AoE and hope.

As for the thief forums its full of whiney little kittens that wouldn’t be happy even if they could 1v20 with a one shot kill and would go around crying “kitten kitten , l2p nubz”.

Hell that fact that they genuinely believe a thief cannot perma stealth and that a mesmer still has more stealth than a thief (even after PU reversion) is proof enough of the moronic cesspool of that place.

I have played all classes as well, doesn’t mean I know anything about them.
I see you haven’t read the forums – they have been full of constructive feedback since June – only the last balance patch made people a bit salty.
And you seem to be very afraid of thieves.
So long, althapharma whatever your obsession with me

Have Trapper runes apply a small bit of damage to all trap abilities. Like 10 or so damage.

Ranger and Dragon Hunter traps already apply damage that will reveal them. So this change would only affect Trapper runes Trap Thieves.

well for normal 1 vs 1 fights i prefer running other thief builds , atm i play trapper thief mostly when there r only roaming groups with 3+ ppl around, they ganking me if i play other builds all the time and when i switch to ghost thief i get hate pms that i was destroying wvw and should uninstall game n stuff. coz those ganker teams r mosty stupid enough to try killing a ghost thief while being too stuipid to do so – in 99 % of fights no one even tries to get into my pistolfield for example.

in the last days more trapper thieves r being played so ppl start QQn everywhere about this ‘OP’ build while its mostly a l2p issue, coz most of the fights i fight r 1 vs 3-5+ so u can rezz faster then i stomp and can allways preassure my pistolfield – ofc hoping for nerfing it and make em traps again useless ( apart from shadow trap i use that one while roaming in every build coz op 10k range port ) seems easier. especially as this build is indeed the most annoying build to fight against but annoiance doesnt mean its too strong.

MUDse.7623:

…
in the last days more trapper thieves r being played so ppl start QQn everywhere about this ‘OP’ build while its mostly a l2p….

Please explain me the counter play? Guy is perma invi and traps leave no mark on the ground and they are also unblockable.

If I could see them you could argue that its my fault cause I’m walking in it. But as much as I’m looking at it with the classesI play I see no counter play.

well even if u make change for the traps to reveal the thief u wont see where the traps r if placed while in stealth. u do see my pistolfield : small red circle with a bit smoke inside.
then just move into the field because i use heartseeker to stack invis there – the trap invis is by far not enough for perma stealth. now if u stand in my pistolfield and i use heartseeker in it there is a good chance for me to hit u so i wont use heartseeker and make another pitolfield but if i only use 1 hearseeker per pistolfield i will have alot higher iniative cost so i wont be able to keep up stealth and if i am revealed i am pretty much dead. also if u have ports and blink into pistolfield i might be in heartseeker already and get revealed. fighting trapper thief is just about getting him out of stealth and then just cc him till he is dead, unless he runs shadow trap and has it set at the time he wont be able to escape. also if i get revealed. some ranger used a skill that i had taunt on me yesterday so i unwillingly attacked him , got revealed, sic em , 5 vs 1 nuke , dead. my kills/death with other thief builds is better as it mostly takes a while to kill ppl and as i said they r rarely alone and just rez each other or preassure me too much.^

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

MUDse.7623:

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

What server are you on? I’d love to get some practice in …

deso atm so we dont even need eotm ^^

MUDse.7623:

well even if u make change for the traps to reveal the thief u wont see where the traps r if placed while in stealth. u do see my pistolfield : small red circle with a bit smoke inside.
then just move into the field because i use heartseeker to stack invis there – the trap invis is by far not enough for perma stealth. now if u stand in my pistolfield and i use heartseeker in it there is a good chance for me to hit u so i wont use heartseeker and make another pitolfield but if i only use 1 hearseeker per pistolfield i will have alot higher iniative cost so i wont be able to keep up stealth and if i am revealed i am pretty much dead. also if u have ports and blink into pistolfield i might be in heartseeker already and get revealed. fighting trapper thief is just about getting him out of stealth and then just cc him till he is dead, unless he runs shadow trap and has it set at the time he wont be able to escape. also if i get revealed. some ranger used a skill that i had taunt on me yesterday so i unwillingly attacked him , got revealed, sic em , 5 vs 1 nuke , dead. my kills/death with other thief builds is better as it mostly takes a while to kill ppl and as i said they r rarely alone and just rez each other or preassure me too much.^

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

So counter play is to have 4 friends with you to power rez when you go down….

MUDse.7623:

deso atm so we dont even need eotm ^^

Awesome!

I have to work this morning for six or so hours … will you be on about 9pm your time?

Add me regardless, we can practice vs each other.

this is old asssssssssssssssssss

Put an Internal Cool-down on the Stealth received by the Rune, to not allow the Chain-stealthing going on, problem solved.

no to have some condi remove and jump into that pistolfield till hes revealed and then preassure him coz he got 0 def in that moment apart from his thoughes/vita from equip. <- has been written into this forum like 100 times the last days and most ppl try to ignore it and keep yellin for nerf ..pls just try it.

that with 4 frieds is just .. a ghost thief can and will run solo mostly. while like most other ppl seem only dare to run in teams.

Jayne.9251:

I have to work this morning for six or so hours … will you be on about 9pm your time?

Add me regardless, we can practice vs each other.

at that time ill go help my mum carry some furniture to her new house .. prob will be there later

Odokuro.5049:

Put an Internal Cool-down on the Stealth received by the Rune, to not allow the Chain-stealthing going on, problem solved.

doesnt do much coz the rune’s stealth is just a small part of the stealth u get in total.
so u would just need to time em diffrent

MUDse.7623:

well even if u make change for the traps to reveal the thief u wont see where the traps r if placed while in stealth. u do see my pistolfield : small red circle with a bit smoke inside.
then just move into the field because i use heartseeker to stack invis there – the trap invis is by far not enough for perma stealth. now if u stand in my pistolfield and i use heartseeker in it there is a good chance for me to hit u so i wont use heartseeker and make another pitolfield but if i only use 1 hearseeker per pistolfield i will have alot higher iniative cost so i wont be able to keep up stealth and if i am revealed i am pretty much dead. also if u have ports and blink into pistolfield i might be in heartseeker already and get revealed. fighting trapper thief is just about getting him out of stealth and then just cc him till he is dead, unless he runs shadow trap and has it set at the time he wont be able to escape. also if i get revealed. some ranger used a skill that i had taunt on me yesterday so i unwillingly attacked him , got revealed, sic em , 5 vs 1 nuke , dead. my kills/death with other thief builds is better as it mostly takes a while to kill ppl and as i said they r rarely alone and just rez each other or preassure me too much.^

edit: if ur on eu just pm me ingame if ur server is another color in wvw we can meet in EoTM and then u can see what happens if u keep jumping in my pistolfield – IMO best counter. there is also stealth disrupter trap but u souldnt be needed to use it.also if i see u placing it then its just wasted.

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

yanoch.7051:

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

It used to be reveal on trigger when these runes got in game. Why they changed it and didnt took this perma stealth in account is way beyond me. But i have that much often with anets decisions so thats not new to me.

Odokuro.5049:

Put an Internal Cool-down on the Stealth received by the Rune, to not allow the Chain-stealthing going on, problem solved.

That is a terrible idea. They just need to add a small amount of direct damage to thief traps so it reveals them when they are triggered.

Offair.2563:

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

so u only went to the circle when u actually saw the thief there? allways run into pistolfield of a trapper thief. u dont need to blink into the rings it just speeds it up coz the thief will 99% get reveald that way. its enough if u move in so he only gets 1-2 hearseeker into it and not 3-4.

Offair.2563:

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

i defend this build to that point that i say its not OP but yes it is kind of cheese as u only need to know how try not getting revealed wich is not hard as only very few ppl try to get u out of stealth,

i killed such a thief already with pistolwhip thief but took me that long, that i ignore em nowadays move on, maybe put a /laugh in chat and focus on other peeps.

i dont say its the only viable build i prefer to faceroll pistolwhip kill ppl thats alot faster but only works on 1 vs 1 sometimes 1 vs 2-3 but not more. i know this wont work in a duel but while roaming if u use ur shadow trap properly u can up to 20k with pistolwhip+steal+sigils from out of nowhere without ppl seeing u before they got stunned. but well as there r not many ppl anymore to roam solo and i dont want to run in group this build is well i might kill someone out a group but then got to run again

Offair.2563:

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

oh well anti invuln trap would be nice if u have a look on up comming chronomance then stealth will be ur least problem.

Offair.2563:

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

i agree with u on this point. but i disagree the demanded nerfes for either the rune or the thief. cause they way ppl want the thief/rune get nerfed noone will use these utilities. i think in Thief forum Raiden made a good proposal. he wanted the needle trap and trip wire to deal dmg, so the thief will get revealed but in return buff those traps a bit so they would be still worth taking. if i find his post ill try to figure out how to link it to here,

MUDse.7623:

Offair.2563:

That is the main problem what you describe here, to actually get them out of stealth. OFcourse i stood in red rings etc but that was just because i saw the thief pop up here and there and thats not the case with the trapper runes. Not all classes have access to reveals or portals/blinks to get to the red rings asap.

so u only went to the circle when u actually saw the thief there? allways run into pistolfield of a trapper thief. u dont need to blink into the rings it just speeds it up coz the thief will 99% get reveald that way. its enough if u move in so he only gets 1-2 hearseeker into it and not 3-4.

Offair.2563:

I just cant believe people who actually defend this cheese. It should not have been around in first place. And saying thief has been nerfed so this is the only viable build is utterly bullcrap cause i still get killed by the “normal” builds, maybe adapt or ask those who run it how they do it?

i defend this build to that point that i say its not OP but yes it is kind of cheese as u only need to know how try not getting revealed wich is not hard as only very few ppl try to get u out of stealth,

i killed such a thief already with pistolwhip thief but took me that long, that i ignore em nowadays move on, maybe put a /laugh in chat and focus on other peeps.

i dont say its the only viable build i prefer to faceroll pistolwhip kill ppl thats alot faster but only works on 1 vs 1 sometimes 1 vs 2-3 but not more. i know this wont work in a duel but while roaming if u use ur shadow trap properly u can up to 20k with pistolwhip+steal+sigils from out of nowhere without ppl seeing u before they got stunned. but well as there r not many ppl anymore to roam solo and i dont want to run in group this build is well i might kill someone out a group but then got to run again

Offair.2563:

Stealth trap has been introduced waaaaay before this trapper rune and was a good indicator that stealth is idd broken, why else adding it? It is not like there are other traps around to counter other class mechanics.

oh well anti invuln trap would be nice if u have a look on up comming chronomance then stealth will be ur least problem.

Offair.2563:

No class should be allowed to have 100% stealth up time during a fight where they actually doing dmg, albeit through conditions. Yes permastealth without the runes is stil a thing but they get revealed ( read getting a penalty ) for attacking.

i agree with u on this point. but i disagree the demanded nerfes for either the rune or the thief. cause they way ppl want the thief/rune get nerfed noone will use these utilities. i think in Thief forum <a href=“https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-this-happened-1/first#post5602523”>Raiden</a> made a good proposal. he wanted the needle trap and trip wire to deal dmg, so the thief will get revealed but in return buff those traps a bit so they would be still worth taking. if i find his post ill try to figure out how to link it to here,

Like i said a couple times before, its not stealth or the thief class but the rune that gives them eternal stealth during fights, attacking stuff! That should never have been possible and yea i said i stood in those rings fighting thieves without these runes cause you see them pop every now and then which is not the case with the trapper runes.

You can come with a lot of suggestions how to counter but do you think everyone has infinite condi cleanse on very low cds and you think the thieves wont counter pressure?

Rework the runes – no need to change anything on thieves at all.

Offair.2563:

Like i said a couple times before, its not stealth or the thief class but the rune that gives them eternal stealth during fights, attacking stuff! That should never have been possible and yea i said i stood in those rings fighting thieves without these runes cause you see them pop every now and then which is not the case with the trapper runes.

You can come with a lot of suggestions how to counter but do you think everyone has infinite condi cleanse on very low cds and you think the thieves wont counter pressure?

Rework the runes – no need to change anything on thieves at all.

with just the invis of the heal and my shadow trap i have 1/3 stealth uptime +10% stealh uptime from steal. if i do my pistolfield with 4 heartseekers once i reveal i am 2 initative to max again => 13/15 uptime from pistolfield + heartseeker. so this is already ~ 130% stealth uptime n now u tell me the runes keep me stealthed – they make it easier no doubt but they r not needed. if i want to play a stronger trapper thief i would prob use other runes then trapper to add more conditions but it would have a higher chance to fail coz i’d need 4 heartseekers in my pistolfield and ppl might move in.

for ur condi cleanse i just fought perplex condi nekro with my mes – i dont have condi cleanse so i got rekt .. if i spent more in condi remove i lose alot dmg n would prob die anyway soo nerf condi nekro ? a trapper thief cant counter preassure. he has 4 skills for condi + dogge. so he does 2x(4x if pre set traps , 5 if lucky improvisation)needle trap where u need condi remove but thief has 24s cd on it. then he has steal which applies on my build like 10k poison dmg and 3,5k+1,2k per skill confuison on 26s cd…steal is pretty much enough for everyone without condi cleanse. then u might also have caltrops – just move out (tho 50% wait inside) 24s cd. now if i use em all on u i have over 20s cd for doing something. lets say till u get out of all my stuff 15s ..in that time i need to keep up stealth and u can just jump into there.

Offair.2563:

yanoch.7051:

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

It used to be reveal on trigger when these runes got in game. Why they changed it and didnt took this perma stealth in account is way beyond me. But i have that much often with anets decisions so thats not new to me.

Yeah adding damage to the trigger of the traps or some of them will solve the problems. I don’t agree with adding an ICD on the runes though as its not a problem on the other class that can use them because their traps reveal them. It won’t be a problem on DH I dare say for the same reason.

It’s not really a nerf to thief and their stealth and it won’t affect other builds, it also doesn’t make the other builds/classes that use traps essentially useless.

apharma.3741:

Offair.2563:

yanoch.7051:

They should add a reveal on traps activation or traps circle on the ground like pistol field. I’m fine with any or both. I have no issue with pistol field since I can see it and I can somewhat counterplay and manage my risk/reward.

It used to be reveal on trigger when these runes got in game. Why they changed it and didnt took this perma stealth in account is way beyond me. But i have that much often with anets decisions so thats not new to me.

Yeah adding damage to the trigger of the traps or some of them will solve the problems. I don’t agree with adding an ICD on the runes though as its not a problem on the other class that can use them because their traps reveal them. It won’t be a problem on DH I dare say for the same reason.

It’s not really a nerf to thief and their stealth and it won’t affect other builds, it also doesn’t make the other builds/classes that use traps essentially useless.

if u only make the traps deal a minimum of direct dmg then ideed ghost thief wont happen anymore, but then u got to buff the traps to keep em viable. i am for ‘nerfing’ the ghost thief but i am not in for making the trap utilities on thief useless again (apart from shadow trap)

I cant see why you bring up your mesmer fight to a topic thats about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth while throwing condis like no tomorrow..

maybe coz a condi nekro applies constantly conditions while a trapper thief doesnt? yes hes visible. but if u can fight condi nekros with the condi removes u have then u also can fight or ignore trapper thieves.

edit : if ur only remaining arguments r now about a line u call offtopic in my post- then i guess i cant be that wrong about trapper thief

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief throwing conditions and remains to be in stealth. Ever heard about comprehensive reading?

Offair.2563:

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief

oh u also dont read my posts .. scroll up a bit. trapper thief doesnt need em runes to stay invis permanently. the change to make trapper thief visible is adding dmg to thief traps not removing the stealth from traps. tho if u only put a bit direct dmg on the traps they r mostly useless so they also need a little buff. but hey why do i have to write this over and over again for u not to understand it anyway?

MUDse.7623:

Offair.2563:

No this thread is solely about the trapper runes giving eternal stealth to a thief

oh u also dont read my posts .. scroll up a bit. trapper thief doesnt need em runes to stay invis permanently. the change to make trapper thief visible is adding dmg to thief traps not removing the stealth from traps. tho if u only put a bit direct dmg on the traps they r mostly useless so they also need a little buff. but hey why do i have to write this over and over again for u not to understand it anyway?

Yes thieves have perma stealth but what happens when they attack? Ooooh reveal

Unlike the trapper runes one that remain stealthed dealing damage, THAT is my point.
Bringing up other class fights etc isnt really useful as this topic.

if i stay perma invis without those runes i still wont get revealed by the traps.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper

Read the 6th bonus.

Chaba.5410:

Not entirely true. If you make your build completely reliant on Shadow Arts, that’s your weakness. And you didn’t address my statement regarding thief having the best access to stealth.

A thief without shadow arts can die to conditions very quickly. Sure, we can cleanse SOME conditions through other means – but particularly with torment and confusion (heal skills don’t remove) we’d be burning through most utility skills to get rid of, which with confusion, would probably kill us So if running Shadow arts is our weakeness… and it’s a weakness NOT to run them – does that mean thieves are just weak?

A few polite pointers – and a reminder that these apply to ALL classes in the game.

1) Conditions don’t do physical damage and therefore don’t reveal. So Caltrops only do condition damage. I

‘m guessing the moan about engie dodge bomb revealing vs thief caltrops doesn’t… is actually a complaint that the bomb does physical damage? That’s your fault for taking it mate, not ours…

Ask the devs to remove the bombs physical damage.

2) Trapper thieves have 1 type of trap that applies conditions… that’s the needle trap. Traited for – you can put 2 down (one every 25s when using heal). All traps can put 5 stacks of vuln with a trait, but nothing else.

3) Traps are unblockable – goes for all classes I think? Thief traps only do condition damage though too – and don’t blocks just prevent physical damage? (seem to remember shields blocking physical damage not conditions).

4) Changing traps because of a rune is the wrong way to address your concerns. Actually, it’s probably those on the receiving end’sdream solution, but that doesn’t make it the correct way to address the problem.

I personally don’t spend all the time in stealth whatsoever – i’m pressuring you with sb 1/2/4 all the time, evading with 3 and moving with 5. Pressure = distraction, and distraction = not realising you’ve 3s to condi cleanse or die; remarkably effective in 1v1.

5) Revealed does not necessarily destroy the build. Traps are condi bombs which work without stealth. I usually goad players into a trap or drop it on their face (stealthed or not).

Trapper runes do give a VERY accessible means to get into stealth, and further defensive mechanisms (super speed to move out of area AND a trap to stop pursuers).

The easiest way to kill is to leave traps laying around and watch you walk into them from afar whilst having no cooldowns so i can just sb 5 in and drop more ontop of you… with zero stealth needed.

I am semi tempted to point people towards the “burn” condition threads where we get told conditions are no issue. Since these trap thieves do no direct damage, only conditions, and conditions aren’t an issue… what’s the complaining?

Yes, I think it’s a very very strong build and very evil too. Fair? About as fair as having enough life to withstand 3s of 8 burn stacks, and having a condi cleanse that only removes them after 3s if you’ve not got the right heal or shadow step up

im really sry i have no clue how to explain it to u. u either cant or dont seem willing to understand what i type – or ur simply trolling coz u dont like to fight trapper thieves.

1) you can perma stealth WITHOUT trapper rune.
2 ) even without trapper rune u wont get reveald if someone steps into ur trap
3) yes trapper rune makes it EASIER to keep up stealth but they are not NECESSARY to play that style.
4) nerfing the trapper rune wont fix the problem for u thta u have to fight ghost thieves, adding direct dmg to the thief traps does as they will get revealed then.

im not an english native speaker so if someone with better english would translate what i wrote to a more understandable english id be glad

Offair.2563:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Trapper

Read the 6th bonus.

Offair, What MUDS is saying is that Thieves do not rely on or need the Trapper Runes 3 sec stealth ability to stay perma stealthed, it is just an added synergy to the class, Anet removed direct damage from Thief traps because Noone would use them since they would proc reveal.

So what you’re actually say is that perm stealth is the issue, and to address perm stealth you think leave the runes as is and change the traps?

Nuts.

Changing the stealth mechanic – if HS used 1 more init then no more perm stealth in ANY build.

All cry problems solved.

hs is not just used to stealth on thief , now if u increase its iniative cost pve focused thieves wont like that change as they use the skill for dmg – not mainly for invis. problem is if u change the rune or any other skill / trait apart from the thief trap skills ..u will also affect other playstyles.

I’m saying that when Anet changed the way Thief traps work and deal damage that they were fully aware what would happen, Perma Stealth has been neglected and they have not fixed it in 3 years.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I’m saying that when Anet changed the way Thief traps work and deal damage that they were fully aware what would happen, Perma Stealth has been neglected and they have not fixed it in 3 years.

That’s probably why they brought reveal skills/traits into the game.
“yo guys, we don’t know what to do anymore, take this and solve it yourselves”

Chips.7968:

Chaba.5410:

Not entirely true. If you make your build completely reliant on Shadow Arts, that’s your weakness. And you didn’t address my statement regarding thief having the best access to stealth.

A thief without shadow arts can die to conditions very quickly. Sure, we can cleanse SOME conditions through other means – but particularly with torment and confusion (heal skills don’t remove) we’d be burning through most utility skills to get rid of, which with confusion, would probably kill us So if running Shadow arts is our weakeness… and it’s a weakness NOT to run them – does that mean thieves are just weak?

A few polite pointers – and a reminder that these apply to ALL classes in the game.

1) Conditions don’t do physical damage and therefore don’t reveal. So Caltrops only do condition damage. I

‘m guessing the moan about engie dodge bomb revealing vs thief caltrops doesn’t… is actually a complaint that the bomb does physical damage? That’s your fault for taking it mate, not ours…

Ask the devs to remove the bombs physical damage.

2) Trapper thieves have 1 type of trap that applies conditions… that’s the needle trap. Traited for – you can put 2 down (one every 25s when using heal). All traps can put 5 stacks of vuln with a trait, but nothing else.

3) Traps are unblockable – goes for all classes I think? Thief traps only do condition damage though too – and don’t blocks just prevent physical damage? (seem to remember shields blocking physical damage not conditions).

4) Changing traps because of a rune is the wrong way to address your concerns. Actually, it’s probably those on the receiving end’sdream solution, but that doesn’t make it the correct way to address the problem.

I personally don’t spend all the time in stealth whatsoever – i’m pressuring you with sb 1/2/4 all the time, evading with 3 and moving with 5. Pressure = distraction, and distraction = not realising you’ve 3s to condi cleanse or die; remarkably effective in 1v1.

5) Revealed does not necessarily destroy the build. Traps are condi bombs which work without stealth. I usually goad players into a trap or drop it on their face (stealthed or not).

Trapper runes do give a VERY accessible means to get into stealth, and further defensive mechanisms (super speed to move out of area AND a trap to stop pursuers).

The easiest way to kill is to leave traps laying around and watch you walk into them from afar whilst having no cooldowns so i can just sb 5 in and drop more ontop of you… with zero stealth needed.

I am semi tempted to point people towards the “burn” condition threads where we get told conditions are no issue. Since these trap thieves do no direct damage, only conditions, and conditions aren’t an issue… what’s the complaining?

Yes, I think it’s a very very strong build and very evil too. Fair? About as fair as having enough life to withstand 3s of 8 burn stacks, and having a condi cleanse that only removes them after 3s if you’ve not got the right heal or shadow step up

A few things.
Evasive Powder Keg is a minor, people aren’t “choosing” it. The only way not to choose it is to avoid that trait line all together.

SA isn’t a thief’s only means of removing condi’s. Traited tricks also remove condi’s and most have fairly short cooldowns or provide stun breaks. Signet of Agility will remove up to 5 condi’s if you are running with a party. Thieves also have short cooldown elites that synergize very well with Lyssa runes.

And finally, you seem to be missing the point of this thread. Condi damage isn’t the problem. Being able to remain in stealth for the entire fight while applying condi damage is the problem.

I have run this build to learn its weaknesses and what I found is it is slow to kill a person if they have good condi removal and you need to be a little careful around engi’s. That’s it. Unless you are a terrible player you will eventually kill anyone that is stupid enough to fight you. You can easily kill up to 3 people without any problems, above that organized players will be able to power rez, but at no point are you in danger of dying.

Puck.9612:

You can easily kill up to 3 people without any problems, above that organized players will be able to power rez, but at no point are you in danger of dying.

thats right as long as most people dont know what to do, and my experience is that many ppl just stand stil or run in circles panicing and not trying to preassure ur pistolfield. did u fight duels with that build vs some ppl that wanted to figure how to beat it ? .. i bet if u do so after a few duels u will have a very hard time – especially vs other thieves that run SA and can spam ports into ur pistolfield. i hope i find some time to duel with jayne a bit to prove myself and to u that this build is beatable, maybe i can record those fights. IMO as this build seems to appear more often just recently its more a ‘new’ thing to most ppl and we got to learn how to fight it before anyone can really say that it is too strong and how to ‘fix’ it optimally and fixing is not completly destroying trapper builds as such.

today on my ele i got rekt by a ranger who was always in stealth, constantly using taunt to get me to hit his pet and run into his traps.

same deal. he/she didnt get a reveal and i only saw the ticks. the rune is broken, not the classes. much.
But deffo the rune, rework the rune instead. they did it with vamp runes(before you were able to use utils, then just profession skills, now nada), they can do it with trapper.

Trapper thieves are a joke, easy to kill and generally are the thieves who are like ‘ermagerd ah cun beh inverserbal loods’

I.E. a little brain dead.

not running a stunbreak in wvw is your own fault. something i learned the hard way years ago now.

ps, traiting the trick removes conditions removes 1 condi, our lowest cd is the heal skill, which is 18sec, the rest are 20+ and other tricks are kinda… useless in the current meta.

Bored of the qq towards thieves now. a caught thief is a dead thief. just learn to catch and adapt, like we adapt to heavy cc and tings.

Incoherent rant over