Guild Wars 2

Coming up with “explainable, justifiable” new math for the new rating calculation will be a challenge for ArenaNet’s WvW crew. Balanced match-ups get sent to the middle of the pack, uneven matchups against weaker foes boost you to the top.
I await the announcement of these new ratings formulas.

MarMaster.6241:

Coming up with “explainable, justifiable” new math for the new rating calculation will be a challenge for ArenaNet’s WvW crew. Balanced match-ups get sent to the middle of the pack, uneven matchups against weaker foes boost you to the top.
I await the announcement of these new ratings formulas.

Yes it is disturbing. Many on my mid tier server are rightly or wrongly trying to manipulate our score to be lower by not logging in with fear we will hit tier1 and have weeks of agony on our way back to mid tier

It is unfortunate that ANET decided to do this after most of the matchups corrected themselves already. A rating reset should have been done 3 weeks ago to be honest. Now it seems everything has mostly corrected itself and the last couple of outliers will be resolved in a week or two.

Now, due to lack of thought and reason, the developers want to subject the players to even more weeks of facing population imbalances or PvDoor boredom. For what purpose?

If you do end up resetting the scores, please use some though when you do to prevent weeks of pointless fights for some and boredom for others. Keep the ranking the same and ensure there isn’t a massive shift on reset or shortly after by seeding the initial points correctly.

Please be considerate of your customers and those servers that have been enduring crap for weeks.

I actually like the idea getting to see some new servers. Yeah, some of the matchups will be uneven for a few weeks, but it is worth it to not have to play the same servers constantly.

I definitely agree though that we should have 48 hour matches over the next month or so. Think about it from anet’s perspective. What is the most popular day of the week for WvW? It is Friday reset. Let’s get that excitement more than once a week. The truth is that most matchups are decided by 48 hours anyway.

I don’t see that as truth at all. The first 48 hours is the weekend when people tend to play more. The reality is that the matchup is decided m-f when people are going to work/school/whatever and coverage comes into play more.

It is a bit silly to look at current rankings based on the old system when ANet already said they are changing the system. You might as well guess the new rankings based on alphabetic order.

Instead of complaining about ratings published by sites using the outdated system, rather complain that ANet hasn’t told us how the new system will work, and if they will take steps to alleviate the pain of re-jiggering the whole league over the next few weeks or months.

But, I’m more worried about a fundamental flaw.

Vodka.3958:

hahah it must’ve sucked coming in 2nd place 11 weeks in a row. (…)

The reason we came in several weeks in second place, and by a good margin, was that at the time there were really 4 servers with strong WvW game (rolling skill and coverage into one, so we don’t get sidetracked here, please). Since we only have three servers in a tier, one of the four strong ones ended up in tier 2 where they rolled everyone else up and smoked them like a cheap joint. This is just a downside of having a fixed sized tier, whether it’s 3, or 2, or 4, or X. If you have X+1 strong participants, the next lower ranked players will have a very bad day. For a very long time.

I hope ANet keeps an eye on this and thinks of something to even this out a bit. Maybe offer free transfers for some guilds willing to move as a whole, or something like that. Being stuck in an unbalanced tier without much hope of things changing will be very bad for the game.

We need the 24 hours match ups to get ratings into place as soon as possible

no habib messed up and anet did too theres no corecting this giant mistake that has been made DRAGON BRAND for life but soon as a new game comes im out to long has this game been kittened with by designers that have no clue or even play months an dmonths of ram glitchs unfair que systems and botch spots for seige weapons and this is only wvw plain and simple this game is really lacking in the fun department

As a Jade Quarry player, I was almost looking forward to dropping a few tiers after the reset. Restarting the ladder following the end of free transfers seems like a good idea, and a week or two to relax and stock up on siege without feeling like you’re letting down the server could be nice. I also wouldn’t mind if things stayed as they are – people would settle to their post-transfer tiers eventually, and good competition can be fun.

What I’m suddenly fearing, however, is that we’ll drop a few tiers and end up facing SoS and SoR again. T1 is the closest matchup at the moment by a significant amount. Since everyone has the same rating, that means everyone else will deviate from that initial rating more than any of us, and we’ll end up next to each other in the ratings. And the current predicted match indeed has all three of us in the same tier. The math may not be exactly right, but the general result follows from the base system and how close the matches are, and could easily follow us into the new math.

This would be… bad. We’ll have another close match next week, delaying the start of our trek back to our proper spot and giving the possibility of yet a third week with the same match and the same inability to significantly adjust our rating.

Jade Quarry’s history suggests to me that we’ll eventually power through it, but honestly… if that happens it’s going to feel like more than a “few bumps” on the road to the proper rankings.

Giving us initial ratings reflecting our starting rank would help, or just ignoring this week’s results and doing random seeds next week. Or a complete change to the way matchups work (some element of randomness, or even just ‘if you win you move up a slot, if you lose you move down a slot’). Or a switch back to daily matches for a while. Or hell, wait for this rating reset thing until we get the changes later this month.

I don’t really care where we end up on SoR. We made it to T1 and that is rewarding enough for me. I look forward to climbing back up the ladder, revisiting old friends and stealing their castles. This is just like a new season in a football game imo.

Mattargul.9235:

It is a bit silly to look at current rankings based on the old system when ANet already said they are changing the system. You might as well guess the new rankings based on alphabetic order.

Instead of complaining about ratings published by sites using the outdated system, rather complain that ANet hasn’t told us how the new system will work, and if they will take steps to alleviate the pain of re-jiggering the whole league over the next few weeks or months.

But, I’m more worried about a fundamental flaw.

Its completely irrelevant how the “new math” is working, if you lose the match, you will lose points. If you win the match, you will gain some points. Their might be some differences in the predicted matchups, but the overall trend is the same. ( Using the points in the current matchup as basement )

covenn.7165:

I don’t see that as truth at all. The first 48 hours is the weekend when people tend to play more. The reality is that the matchup is decided m-f when people are going to work/school/whatever and coverage comes into play more.

You are partially correct. People do play more more of weekends. That is true. You are wrong though about games being decided Monday-Friday. Look at this week’s match-ups. 5 or 6 out of the 8 match-ups were decided by Sunday night.

The point though is that 48 hours is enough time to determine a winner in most cases. There is no downside to having 48 hour matches.

Dimeschemo.5493:

no habib messed up and anet did too theres no corecting this giant mistake that has been made DRAGON BRAND for life but soon as a new game comes im out to long has this game been kittened with by designers that have no clue or even play months an dmonths of ram glitchs unfair que systems and botch spots for seige weapons and this is only wvw plain and simple this game is really lacking in the fun department

I have no idea what you just said, but wow, that was one long sentence.

style.6173:

covenn.7165:

I don’t see that as truth at all. The first 48 hours is the weekend when people tend to play more. The reality is that the matchup is decided m-f when people are going to work/school/whatever and coverage comes into play more.

You are partially correct. People do play more more of weekends. That is true. You are wrong though about games being decided Monday-Friday. Look at this week’s match-ups. 5 or 6 out of the 8 match-ups were decided by Sunday night.

The point though is that 48 hours is enough time to determine a winner in most cases. There is no downside to having 48 hour matches.

Perhaps my perspective is skewed by playing on SoR. We had been able to keep it close or outright lead against any server on the weekend, only to lose points during the off NA ours during weekdays due to lack of coverage. This has since changed for us somewhat, but you can see where my perspective comes from.

It’s sad… Jade Quarry has fought our tails off for months to hold onto T1 against some great and worthy competition, probably none more worthy than the two servers we face this week. Yet, based on the old scoring, the three of us are destined for T4, losing our hard fought status to low tier servers that ran over little to no competition. With this system they could bank enough points to hold onto T1 slots they haven’t earned through time for an extended period.

I really hope this is being thought through.

I dislike the idea of winner goes +1, loser -1 position.

Under a system like this the 2nd place team has a very high chance of being stuck in 2nd for a long time. Why? When a server moves down from a higher tier, it is usually stronger than those below it. Which automatically would give it a chance to win the tier and go back up. However the server that came up is usually (the latest pre-paid transfers issue aside) weaker than those above it. So this would make it that the 2nd place team from the week before would be almost guaranteed a 2nd place two weeks in a row just because of the way the system is set up.

VOLKON.1290:

It’s sad… Jade Quarry has fought our tails off for months to hold onto T1 against some great and worthy competition, probably none more worthy than the two servers we face this week. Yet, based on the old scoring, the three of us are destined for T4, losing our hard fought status to low tier servers that ran over little to no competition. With this system they could bank enough points to hold onto T1 slots they haven’t earned through time for an extended period.

I really hope this is being thought through.

In the post stated by Mike Ferguson he addressed your concern.

They will revise the math so that blowouts are a one week deal. They haven’t posted the formula yet because they are working on a way to do this.

So, If you keep trying you will be back in tier 1 within 2-3 weeks.

Altie.4571:

VOLKON.1290:

It’s sad… Jade Quarry has fought our tails off for months to hold onto T1 against some great and worthy competition, probably none more worthy than the two servers we face this week. Yet, based on the old scoring, the three of us are destined for T4, losing our hard fought status to low tier servers that ran over little to no competition. With this system they could bank enough points to hold onto T1 slots they haven’t earned through time for an extended period.

I really hope this is being thought through.

In the post stated by Mike Ferguson he addressed your concern.

They will revise the math so that blowouts are a one week deal. They haven’t posted the formula yet because they are working on a way to do this.

So, If you keep trying you will be back in tier 1 within 2-3 weeks.

I’m more concerned with the fact that we could see SoS, SoR and JQ in T4, for example. These are legitimate T1 servers and there wouldn’t be a blowout. Look at T1 right now, only a couple thousand points at best separate them. How would they progress to T1 if they’re stuck in T4 due to balanced yet incredible fights? Meanwhile a T7 or 8 server pops into T1 undeservedly and never has to go through the real T1 servers to do so.

This brings up an additional problem… if the T1 servers are trapped in T4 for awhile, with paid transfers being the only “out” so to speak you’re trapping many of the top WvW guilds and players way down in the lower tiers. This can’t be by design… it’s just flat out bad for WvW as a whole.

style.6173:

covenn.7165:

I don’t see that as truth at all. The first 48 hours is the weekend when people tend to play more. The reality is that the matchup is decided m-f when people are going to work/school/whatever and coverage comes into play more.

You are partially correct. People do play more more of weekends. That is true. You are wrong though about games being decided Monday-Friday. Look at this week’s match-ups. 5 or 6 out of the 8 match-ups were decided by Sunday night.

The point though is that 48 hours is enough time to determine a winner in most cases. There is no downside to having 48 hour matches.

That doens’t happen in T1

I’ve only been playing since Christmas so apologies if my view seems stupid here, I play on SBI where during Christmas, we were doing relatively well but once the holidays were over, we didn’t have the numbers and dropped a tier after getting beaten by Jade Quarry. After that, we were losing badly to Sanctum of Rall, so several guilds left our server to join Sanctum of Rall so they could win resulting in us being massively outnumbered and players ditching WvW totally because it was pointless, SoR owned 95% of the resources virtually all the time, now we are fighting Yak’s Bend and Crystal Desert and yet again, we are bottom of the scoreboard, I don’t know how many months of falling we have to do before we end up in a more balanced tier but, wouldn’t it make things more balanced in all tiers if the player cap on each map was 120% of the side with the smallest number of players? That way if YB had 50 players on the EB map, both of the other teams could have no more than 60 players on that map (they would join the queue system) but they can always go to one of the other 3 maps if there’s space until the smallest team gets more players join, then that 60 man level cap would increase proportionally. This would make it so that you can still outnumber a side but not massively outnumber a side.

Altie.4571:

I dislike the idea of winner goes +1, loser -1 position.

Under a system like this the 2nd place team has a very high chance of being stuck in 2nd for a long time. Why? When a server moves down from a higher tier, it is usually stronger than those below it. Which automatically would give it a chance to win the tier and go back up. However the server that came up is usually (the latest pre-paid transfers issue aside) weaker than those above it. So this would make it that the 2nd place team from the week before would be almost guaranteed a 2nd place two weeks in a row just because of the way the system is set up.

This post seriously makes no sense. You are worried about a team being in second place two weeks in a row? Try using the current system where SoR was stuck in second place for what? 11 weeks in a row?

The idea of +1 -1 is to give NEW matchups each week. That’s the exciting part. No one wants to play the same server every week. No matter how even the match-up, it gets boring after 2 weeks.

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

Skapocalypse.5236:

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

Are there any bets on how many hours before reset they will tell us? 55.5 hours till reset.

Skapocalypse.5236:

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

This is an impossible request. The matches are based on this week’s match-up. Those match-ups end at 7pm EST this Friday. Until that time, anything could change. Just guess based on that tracker site.

style.6173:

Skapocalypse.5236:

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

This is an impossible request. The matches are based on this week’s match-up. Those match-ups end at 7pm EST this Friday. Until that time, anything could change. Just guess based on that tracker site.

True, but millennium does a pretty good job estimating. If ArenaNet would tell us the final algorithm and if they plan to make any manual adjustments, then we could get a pretty good guess.

style.6173:

Skapocalypse.5236:

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

This is an impossible request. The matches are based on this week’s match-up. Those match-ups end at 7pm EST this Friday. Until that time, anything could change. Just guess based on that tracker site.

Too bad there has to be some further communication from anet on what is happening at reset and really they should address the quite legitimate concerns that have been raised in this thread and others..

style.6173:

Skapocalypse.5236:

Can we at least get some set information on who exactly we will be facing next week. Kinda hard to set up the server for the next match when we have no idea where to send people into which borderlands.

This is an impossible request. The matches are based on this week’s match-up. Those match-ups end at 7pm EST this Friday. Until that time, anything could change. Just guess based on that tracker site.

It’s not immposible they just need to let us know if they are changing the math (if they are at all) and how they will and then the guys over at mos can take care of the rest. Simple request not hard for ANet to do.

Some information about how they will change the math and how that will affect the match-ups in the next week will make a lot of people here happy. We do not want to know the exact match-ups, but are the predictions of mos.millenium.org accurate or not? If they are most people will be mad. So if they are not, please tell us.

To clarify one thing: I am not crying here because my server loses. We don’t. Based on the little information available to us at the moment it is likely that my server will be number 1 in EU in two weeks time. That will not say we are the best WvW server in the EU, because I doubt that.

Do ANet care about WvW?
No official statement on queues (a general issue across servers and zones).
No official statement on server size.
No official statement on matchups or maths. How do they expect that the dedicated guilds will assign forces without knowing which opponents we will have or if we will even be able to fit half of a guild in a given BL?

… disgusting.

Noosfer.4875:

Do ANet care about WvW?
No official statement on queues (a general issue across servers and zones).
No official statement on server size.
No official statement on matchups or maths. How do they expect that the dedicated guilds will assign forces without knowing which opponents we will have or if we will even be able to fit half of a guild in a given BL?

… disgusting.

Disgusting is a bit strong, seriously. But there is some uncertainties that it would be really nice for them to address. I mean… do they really want, hypothetically, Jade Quarry to fall to Tier 4?

Darn it.

Oh well.

Sorrow’s Furnace here to say we’re glad about staying in Tier 8, moving up 22 ranks wouldn’t be very smooth ^.^

Thank you!

Although it can be annoying to face the same server over and over again, simply resetting the entire ladder was a terrible idea. I’m happy the current ratings will be preserved!

Habib!

… I love you man.

In a macho, WvW kind of manly way of course.

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Sorrow’s Furnace here to say we’re glad about staying in Tier 8, moving up 22 ranks wouldn’t be very smooth ^.^

You would be, now you get another 2 months of making the other T8 servers ghost towns before you manage to crawl out of the ratings hellhole.

Isaac.6041:

Hope the http://mos.millenium.org people update their site soon.

I’ve just updated the site, rankings and predicated matchups are now accurate.

No reset? That’s awful!

This comes a bit late but it´s the right decission

Now a tune to the cap would be welcome

thank you for listening to your player base a-net

I would ask anet to reconsider and do a soft reset.

A soft reset would be you would divide the current scores by 2-5, then add the average of the removed points to every server. That would bring servers ratings closer together without royally screwing matchups.

It would solve the problem of SF being stuck in T8, and Ebay not moving up in their matchup either.

So Anet does listen!!

Kinda bummed, would have liked some new opponents….

I am happy, they decided not to reset.

This is not a serius company behavor…they reset they dont reset… It s ridiculous.

How can you be so bad at making decisions Anet ? Wake up seriously, do you even discuss anything before you do it ?

They decided not to, mainly because everyone kittened up a storm. I understand why, the system they where going to use was a bit dramatic…but that said it would be nice if they changed up some of the tiers.

Anet is way too indecisive. Regardless of the merits of a reset or not, at least stick by your decisions!

First you kittenkine for them wanting to reset it, and when they do their proper analysis and due dilligence and find out it wouldn’t improve the situation, you throw your toys out of the window.

ALot of people are probably hurt because their “masterplan” at jumping into a low-tier easy matchup to then dominate and jump straight back up again doesn’t work anymore…

Ah well. Pinky and the Brain never took over the world. Neither did we Germans.. haha

ilmau.9781:

This is not a serius company behavor…they reset they dont reset… It s ridiculous.

Yeah I must say: Big Gratz to SFR for your “winning strategy” last week.
You now do more minus in T2 than we do in T1

@MrAdri: Have a look a the already updated http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU