Guild Wars 2

From the patch:

WORLD VS. WORLD
General
The walls in WvW have been updated to improve performance.

Someone on my server mentioned that this probably involved reducing the complexity of the geometry.

• It seems that this has resulted in a few glitches where players can get stuck in walls or pass through some walls.

• Wildcreek on EB has an undocumented change. The destructible wall on Rogue’s Quarry side of the tower is now indestructible, but the opposite wall is now destructible instead. I believe this has been done by mistake (hence no documentation). IMHO this is a change for the better and should be repeated at Langor (which has a vulnerable wall which is extremely difficult to defend).

Svarty.8019:

• Wildcreek on EB has an undocumented change. The destructible wall on Rogue’s Quarry side of the tower is now indestructible, but the opposite wall is now destructible instead. I believe this has been done by mistake (hence no documentation). IMHO this is a change for the better and should be repeated at Langor (which has a vulnerable wall which is extremely difficult to defend).

The WC change was a good one intentional or not. Defending against catas in that cave was all but impossible against a superior force. Now attackers at least have to work for it.

Langor is very difficult to take when defended. There are several spots inside to defend that back wall.

Straegen.2938:

The WC change was a good one intentional or not. Defending against catas in that cave was all but impossible against a superior force. Now attackers at least have to work for it.

Langor is very difficult to take when defended. There are several spots inside to defend that back wall.

It is all but impossible to defend that back wall against a superior force.

Svarty.8019:

Straegen.2938:

The WC change was a good one intentional or not. Defending against catas in that cave was all but impossible against a superior force. Now attackers at least have to work for it.

Langor is very difficult to take when defended. There are several spots inside to defend that back wall.

It is all but impossible to defend that back wall against a superior force.

Love the feeling of getting within 10 yards of the gate inner and having 25 conditions put on you immediately. Defending needs a serious look over, the blobbing and karma train wins no matter what.

Good to see they corrected a vunarability in a typically green controlled tower, now if they’d just make red Keep un-trebable from SM.

Svarty.8019:

It is all but impossible to defend that back wall against a superior force.

ACs can be built that hit the area which are out of range of Staff Eles. Also a treb can be built near spawn to counter. The other defensive part is that the players cannot move out from under the acs which makes staying there a problem.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Svarty.8019:

Straegen.2938:

The WC change was a good one intentional or not. Defending against catas in that cave was all but impossible against a superior force. Now attackers at least have to work for it.

Langor is very difficult to take when defended. There are several spots inside to defend that back wall.

It is all but impossible to defend that back wall against a superior force.

Love the feeling of getting within 10 yards of the gate inner and having 25 conditions put on you immediately. Defending needs a serious look over, the blobbing and karma train wins no matter what.

Defending does need a makeover. Right now being on the wall defending puts you at more risk than the people attacking, which is bullkitten.

Straegen.2938:

The WC change was a good one intentional or not. Defending against catas in that cave was all but impossible against a superior force. Now attackers at least have to work for it.

Langor is very difficult to take when defended. There are several spots inside to defend that back wall.

Wildcreek change is a horrible one. Defending against catas in the dredge tunnel was in fact extremely easy and i’ve regularly done so with a small force against a larger one. The change of wall has meant that attackers can now build catapults in the little alcove just behind the back wall of the tower. That is infinately harder to defend against as you can’t easily attack siege there from the tower itself or recieve treb help from the keep. If you own smc of course it’s not so bad.
Wildcreek change has also made this tower very hard for smaller groups. No longer can you retreat through the dredge if they send a 50 man zerg against your 5. You have to cata right out in the open by smc. No effort has to be put into scouting the tower, people running by cant help but see you. A bad change.

One tower I would like to see changed is Jerrifer. Ive always found it strange that the side wall is the one closest to the keep. It really ought to be the wall closest to Golanta that is attackable. It would still have plenty of places to have defensive siege inside it but wouldnt be as easily defendable by just throwing keep fire at it. And of course, would take a little more effort in scouting than just casually glancing from the keep wall.

Celsith.2753:

If you own smc of course it’s not so bad.

Isnt that the entire point of WvW objectives? Encourage taking one to easier secure or take the next. Thats how objectives are threats to each other and thats how the cogs of WvW keep turning. When you bypass it we get DBL.

I dont really see the big issue. Dredge is meant to shortcut to camps. Not being able to cata from it is no big deal.

You can can treb just about anything from smc (which is typically owned by green), you could even treb the now only vulnerable wall of WC before from SMC, you can treb the gate and the cave of WC from green keep, and you could defend that cave rather easily from attackers from the walls and the lords room of WC and with long range artillery from the keep.

Every other tower still has two vulnerable walls right? Greens towers aren’t as spread out as blue or reds, and their keeps WG isnt attackable with seige, so why give green another advantage by making THIS wall, where Red would usually go invunerable?

Dawdler.8521:

Celsith.2753:

If you own smc of course it’s not so bad.

Isnt that the entire point of WvW objectives? Encourage taking one to easier secure or take the next. Thats how objectives are threats to each other and thats how the cogs of WvW keep turning. When you bypass it we get DBL.

I dont really see the big issue. Dredge is meant to shortcut to camps. Not being able to cata from it is no big deal.

In my current matchup my server is green and has the highest population for most of the day, with the red server having the lowest pop. We have sieged to the fullest t3 smc for most of the day. So you think the low pop server should not attack a tower because its impossible for them to take t3 smc from our map blob? The poor smucks try to sneak attack Wildcreek and have no chance whatsoever because, even if we dont have watchtower or scouts, some random person is going to go by on their way to our stupidly op smc and notice them. Then they get whacked from all sides by multiple mortars etc and can’t even somewhat safely retreat because of smc. Fun for my dominating server i’m sure, but what about them? Should they just sit in spawn because they cant compete with numbers?

Celsith.2753:

Dawdler.8521:

Celsith.2753:

If you own smc of course it’s not so bad.

Isnt that the entire point of WvW objectives? Encourage taking one to easier secure or take the next. Thats how objectives are threats to each other and thats how the cogs of WvW keep turning. When you bypass it we get DBL.

I dont really see the big issue. Dredge is meant to shortcut to camps. Not being able to cata from it is no big deal.

In my current matchup my server is green and has the highest population for most of the day, with the red server having the lowest pop. We have sieged to the fullest t3 smc for most of the day. So you think the low pop server should not attack a tower because its impossible for them to take t3 smc from our map blob? The poor smucks try to sneak attack Wildcreek and have no chance whatsoever because, even if we dont have watchtower or scouts, some random person is going to go by on their way to our stupidly op smc and notice them. Then they get whacked from all sides by multiple mortars etc and can’t even somewhat safely retreat because of smc. Fun for my dominating server i’m sure, but what about them? Should they just sit in spawn because they cant compete with numbers?

Are you implying that this single wall on a single tower would make any difference in the outmanned scenario described compared to before? That sneak attacking WC from the dredge was the sole reason red came out of their spawn for 4 years?

Well even if you do, glhf on such a broken EB. We that play on borders get DBL instead.

We lost Wildcreek this morning for the first time this matchup, i’d say that demonstrates just how overpowered for defending this change was.

You are the one who is suggesting people attack smc etc first so I dont understand your attempt to be snarky about that. Oh, you don’t even play on ebg, enough said really

I have to think this WC change was an error… and will likely play out the rest of the week. I would think friday will get an update to fix it. it makes little sense to have the wall within clear view of some randoms running from green keep to smc. All other towers for green, and all other towers in general … do not have this kinda protection. I call it protection because it’s literally a high traffic & vulnerable area for any attacking force.

I have to think that was an oopsie on Anet’s part.

Celsith.2753:

You are the one who is suggesting people attack smc etc first so I dont understand your attempt to be snarky about that. Oh, you don’t even play on ebg, enough said really

It wasnt a suggestion. I said the game mode encourage securing your position.

It’s sort of like standing in mortar fire. I could suggest you not stand it, but the burning sensation of 20 stacks should be enough to encourage you not to.

Svarty.8019:

From the patch:

WORLD VS. WORLD
General
The walls in WvW have been updated to improve performance.

Someone on my server mentioned that this probably involved reducing the complexity of the geometry.

• It seems that this has resulted in a few glitches where players can get stuck in walls or pass through some walls.

• Wildcreek on EB has an undocumented change. The destructible wall on Rogue’s Quarry side of the tower is now indestructible, but the opposite wall is now destructible instead. I believe this has been done by mistake (hence no documentation). IMHO this is a change for the better and should be repeated at Langor (which has a vulnerable wall which is extremely difficult to defend).

it’s funny how things come full circle sometimes isn’kitten

HazyDaisy.4107:

Good to see they corrected a vunarability in a typically green controlled tower, now if they’d just make red Keep un-trebable from SM.

well smc is trebable from red keep also. so not a big deal it even out. since the other 2 keep you can do that only from tower and tower are harder to defend then keep.

stephanie wise.7841:

HazyDaisy.4107:

Good to see they corrected a vunarability in a typically green controlled tower, now if they’d just make red Keep un-trebable from SM.

well smc is trebable from red keep also. so not a big deal it even out. since the other 2 keep you can do that only from tower and tower are harder to defend then keep.

I still would preffer if Overlook and Stonemist wouldn’t be able to treb each other. The red team is suposed to be the weakest team in the matchup and is already in a tight spot with 2 worst towers and the worst supply camp to defend. When the strongest team is able to upgrade SMC the red team can forget about having a upgraded keep in EBG for as long SMC stands. I don’t mind the towers around SMC being ‘trebeable’, this is actually the tactical advantage of holding it, but the whole OL-SMC treb war is just stupid.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey everyone,

The walls not appearing correctly allowing some to walk through is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

Was it also deliberate to make the walls the most dangerous place to stand in wvw? Maybe a good way to get rid of excess siege blueprints?

I agree that you shouldn’t be able to cata WC from Dredge, but making the wall completely indestructible was stupid. No tower should have indestructible walls … that is kind of out of genre don’t you think? I guess ANet did this as a “lazy” change because fixing the dredge issue was too difficult to program otherwise? Fix it right, please. :/

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey everyone,

The walls not appearing correctly allowing some to walk through is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

So is this fixed with todays patch or were you guys to busy with bringing in a BL nobody wanted ?

mordran.4750:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey everyone,

The walls not appearing correctly allowing some to walk through is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

So is this fixed with todays patch or were you guys to busy with bringing in a BL the loudmouth minority don’t wanted ?

FTFY

mordran.4750:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey everyone,

The walls not appearing correctly allowing some to walk through is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

So is this fixed with todays patch or were you guys to busy with bringing in a BL nobody wanted ?

Orly?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:

78.5% Simultaneous Borderlands
21.5% Rotating Borderlands quarterly

This means that the team will add the Desert Borderlands back into play as one of the Borderlands maps and will keep the other two maps as the Alpine Borderlands. Thank you to everyone who voted!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-27-June-Simultaneous-Borderlands/first

You forgot:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:

65.5% No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
34.5% Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.

This means that the Desert Borderlands map will continue to be supported. Next, the Mixed Borderlands poll will be re-run to determine how the Desert Borderlands map will re-enter play. Thank you to everyone who voted!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-14-June-Desert-Borderlands-Closed/first

For those that say the dredge tunnel was defensible, how? Trebs from LL can’t hit in there. Balistas built to hit in there are open to Ele wall fire. ACs fall short. Catas cannot hit far back in there since they either hit the ceiling or fall short. The mortar is completely useless.

DeLys.5380:

I agree that you shouldn’t be able to cata WC from Dredge, but making the wall completely indestructible was stupid. No tower should have indestructible walls …

I believe all towers have only one or two damageable walls and have since release. There probably is a couple out there with three but it is at best rare.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

Could we ask why? The highest population server in the match has the highest chance of being green, and green already had the strongest third in EB. Green gets pressured the least because of that. Depending on the type of attack, green can defend all four towers from their keep.

To compare green to red, since red’s most likely to be the lowest population server:

While green can reach every tower from the keep, red can’t reach Mendons, an inner tower, with theirs.

The changes to WC would put it about on par with red’s OGW . . . except with WC having a huge added advantage of being easily defended now from SMC, which as has already been pointed out is most likely to be owned by green.

Green’s weakest tower now is probably Klovan. Red’s closest equivalent is Anz. Both can be defended from a ram attack with a keep mortar, but red’s mortar can easily be destroyed in advance with two people and a ballista from the vista hill. Green’s mortar needs a treb to take it out. Both are most vulnerable to a cata attack, but green can defend against it from Jerrifer (or at least force the attacking side to set up a bubble rotation, which can be difficult to maintain if green has ground forces fighting, too. Which is fairly likely to be the case since, again, the higher population server is most likely to be green.) None of red’s towers can help support defending Anz.

And Anz isn’t even red’s weakest tower. Mendons is. Even though, again, it’s an inner tower.

Blue doesn’t really have it any better than red, either. Being most likely to be second place in ranking, blue is most the most likely color to get double teamed. From green to secure first place, and from red playing for second. And yet blue can’t defend either outer tower from their keep or another tower. Bravost and Langor aren’t terrible . . . but they aren’t on par with Veloka, Jerrifer, or Aldons, either.

tl;dr: So can WC be given its weakness back? Green’s third really doesn’t need to be any stronger.

Jeknar.6184:

FTFY

pls stop being ridiculous, thx

mordran.4750:

Jeknar.6184:

FTFY

pls stop being ridiculous, thx

The only ridiculous one is you. You are the one ignoring the polls that the community voted on. I know its hard to believe, but your parents lied to you growing up. You aren’t always right. People can, and do, disagree with you (as evidenced by at least 3 polls regarding DBL). But its ok. Life will go on.

OriOri.8724:

mordran.4750:

Jeknar.6184:

FTFY

pls stop being ridiculous, thx

The only ridiculous one is you. You are the one ignoring the polls that the community voted on. I know its hard to believe, but your parents lied to you growing up. You aren’t always right. People can, and do, disagree with you (as evidenced by at least 3 polls regarding DBL). But its ok. Life will go on.

Anet dangled a carrot over the option to keep desert borderlands: we’d be more likely to get more wvw maps if desert was voted to stay AND simultaneous won.

You really can’t make any claim about how many people wanted to keep the borderland for its own merits considering Anet was incentivizing those options being chosen.

All it really proves is that the wvw players do in fact want more map variety. But remember, double alpine beat double desert, EB queues skyrocketed when desert was in and alpine out, and the desert borderlands were, well, deserts because no one liked the map.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey everyone,

The walls not appearing correctly allowing some to walk through is a known bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Also, the Wildcreek and Rogue’s Quarry changes were deliberate.

Why? Specifically Wildcreek? What was the issue? It seems a very strange change that no-one asked for and no-one had an issue with.

Honestly I think Wildcreek (And Klovan) should have BOTH walls breakable. The green team is normally the dominant team of the matchup and don’t need to have the easiest towers to defend. Unfortunely that could lead to make it impossible to reach lords unless Anet change where the stairway are located.

Straegen.2938:

For those that say the dredge tunnel was defensible, how? Trebs from LL can’t hit in there. Balistas built to hit in there are open to Ele wall fire. ACs fall short. Catas cannot hit far back in there since they either hit the ceiling or fall short. The mortar is completely useless.

DeLys.5380:

I agree that you shouldn’t be able to cata WC from Dredge, but making the wall completely indestructible was stupid. No tower should have indestructible walls …

I believe all towers have only one or two damageable walls and have since release. There probably is a couple out there with three but it is at best rare.

NOT walls like that wall.

Jeknar.6184:

Honestly I think Wildcreek (And Klovan) should have BOTH walls breakable. The green team is normally the dominant team of the matchup and don’t need to have the easiest towers to defend. Unfortunely that could lead to make it impossible to reach lords unless Anet change where the stairway are located.

Yes I agree with you completely.

Straegen.2938:

For those that say the dredge tunnel was defensible, how? Trebs from LL can’t hit in there. Balistas built to hit in there are open to Ele wall fire. ACs fall short. Catas cannot hit far back in there since they either hit the ceiling or fall short. The mortar is completely useless.

The Cannon can hit right into the back of the dredge cave. There’s also bali spots that are right on the edge of aoe range. You could also flash build bali’s right in front of their faces to make them leave the catas while a group hit them from behind. Lots of tactics. The new wall is just.. happen to pass by with your eyes open, summon blob, or hop on smc or wc mortar :/ Too easy to defend against a smaller group, almost impossible to defend against a very large blob that places their catas in the nook behind.

I’ve played this change both as green dominant server and as red undermanned server now and my opinion remains the same. This is a bad change that harms smaller groups, discourages red when they’re already undermanned and helps enormously whoever has the largest force on the map (usually green).

Celsith.2753:

Straegen.2938:

For those that say the dredge tunnel was defensible, how? Trebs from LL can’t hit in there. Balistas built to hit in there are open to Ele wall fire. ACs fall short. Catas cannot hit far back in there since they either hit the ceiling or fall short. The mortar is completely useless.

The Cannon can hit right into the back of the dredge cave. There’s also bali spots that are right on the edge of aoe range. You could also flash build bali’s right in front of their faces to make them leave the catas while a group hit them from behind. Lots of tactics. The new wall is just.. happen to pass by with your eyes open, summon blob, or hop on smc or wc mortar :/ Too easy to defend against a smaller group, almost impossible to defend against a very large blob that places their catas in the nook behind.

I’ve played this change both as green dominant server and as red undermanned server now and my opinion remains the same. This is a bad change that harms smaller groups, discourages red when they’re already undermanned and helps enormously whoever has the largest force on the map (usually green).

The cannon can’t reach the end of the tunnel where the catas got placed. The ballista was pointless when 30 people were standing in front of the catas. Add in shield gens and an attempt on WC from dredge side was always successful unless you walked into the tunnel to wipe the zerg and destroy the siege.

Aezyr.5304:

The Cannon can hit right into the back of the dredge cave. There’s also bali spots that are right on the edge of aoe range. You could also flash build bali’s right in front of their faces to make them leave the catas while a group hit them from behind. Lots of tactics. The new wall is just.. happen to pass by with your eyes open, summon blob, or hop on smc or wc mortar :/ Too easy to defend against a smaller group, almost impossible to defend against a very large blob that places their catas in the nook behind.

The cannon absolutely cannot hit at the back of the cave. No ballista can be built that can fire over the wall, hit the back of the cave and be safe from Ele fire. Too far back from the wall and it clips the wall. Too close to the edge and well dead before it has a chance to do any real damage.

The nook is vulnerable to securely positioned ACs. It is one of the worst places to put catas IMO. Hill top is far better but it is also somewhat vulnerable.

Years of play in every tier has taught me that WC even without SMC treb fire was one of the easiest towers to take in EBG. Klovan even put up more of a fight before this change.

Actually the cannon absolutely CAN reach to the back of the dredge cave. Not knowing how to do it is not the same as something not being possible.

Celsith.2753:

Actually the cannon absolutely CAN reach to the back of the dredge cave. Not knowing how to do it is not the same as something not being possible.

It absolutely CAN NOT reach the back of the cave. I attached a screenshot with the ground target lit up. That is the max range. Catas can be built all the way back to the water in that cave and were able to hit the wall.

Even if in some magical world it had mortar level range, a player could not sit on that cannon for more than a few seconds without a staff ele or necro lighting it up.

Straegen.2938:

Celsith.2753:

Actually the cannon absolutely CAN reach to the back of the dredge cave. Not knowing how to do it is not the same as something not being possible.

It absolutely CAN NOT reach the back of the cave. I attached a screenshot with the ground target lit up. That is the max range. Catas can be built all the way back to the water in that cave and were able to hit the wall.

Even if in some magical world it had mortar level range, a player could not sit on that cannon for more than a few seconds without a staff ele or necro lighting it up.

it wont reach, btw stuff is designed to not be holded, that creates movement, this is not a RvR game where stuff is defended equally to offense.
Theres alot of easy spots to drop siege and easy cap, and if adversary server have numbers aoeign everything… well just go play another game.

It will reach all the way to the back of that tunnel to the dredge machinery just out of sight on your screen shot. As I said, just because YOU don’t know how to do it, does not mean its impossible. Stop aiming the mouse at the ground and experiment.

Straegen I sent you mail ingame telling you how to do it. We aren’t green or I might bother doing a short shadowplay clip.

I’m finding it pretty hilarious that you are insisting on telling me i’m wrong about something I did every day we were green. Maybe you should ask, ‘How’?

Celsith.2753:

I’m finding it pretty hilarious that you are insisting on telling me i’m wrong about something I did every day we were green. Maybe you should ask, ‘How’?

A cannon cannot fire past its ground target. If you can show me a screenshot or a video of that happening, I would be impressed because that would mean a cannon actually has about 30% or more distance than its specs. If you have somehow found a way to beat the range limiter that others on this thread haven’t found kudos.

BTW I aimed my mouse purposefully at the back of the cave. That cannot be seen in my screenshot as the screenshot disables the mouse cursor.

Read your ingame mail and aim your mouse where I tell you to.

Why didnt the dredge tunel was changed, so no catas were placed at the end of the tunel???
´Just place some rocks as if the cave colapsed or soemthing.

Yeasy to just aplly a tick for a god like wall??

Is this a long term solution?

The cannon can reach the edge of the tunnel.
Cel should charge for lessons lol