Guild Wars 2

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Lurch.9517:

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Actually its a long winded way of saying “Support each aspect of World vs World individually as opposed to dividing your community down the middle in an attempt to save your pride and/or ego”.

+1
/i hate the 15 chars

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

With all due respect, people might be a little more tolerant of GvG if a large portion of GvGers didn’t suffer from the same delusions of grandeur that GvG players suffered from in the first game. If your fellow GvGers stopped trying to say that GvG is the only true test of skill and saying (either by implication or explicitly stating) that anyone who doesn’t GvG is therefore a bad player, bad at their profession, and probably sub-human in some way by default, maybe people would be more accepting.

-I don’t know if he GvGs or not, but serane would eat most GvGers alive in a 1v1 (with an ele, which the forum dwellers constantly say is bad, to boot).
-Plenty of spvp teams would eat GvGers alive in 5v5s.
-Some of the “other” WvW guilds (who don’t GvG) eat them alive in regular WvW encounters where there are no player defined rules, with less people and no siege.

tl;dr: When the elitism stops, maybe the bashing will also stop.

Aneu.1748:

Lurch.9517:

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Actually its a long winded way of saying “Support each aspect of World vs World individually as opposed to dividing your community down the middle in an attempt to save your pride and/or ego”.

I hear what you are saying, Anet obviously do not. They are supporting the WvW part of their game, they do not view it as a sandbox and as far as they are concerned fair competitive PVP will take place in HOM and GvG will happen as and when they officially introduce it to the game should they choose to. In the mean time players are welcome to try and pursue such initiatives as GvG Fightclub Duelling etc but have to adjust themselves as WvW rules change. As the saying goes ’The lady is not for turning (except when it comes to vertical progression).

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

Lurch.9517:

Aneu.1748:

Lurch.9517:

That seems an awfully long winded way of saying ‘let me GvG in peace please and don’t make any changes to the game that will effect me doing so’

Actually its a long winded way of saying “Support each aspect of World vs World individually as opposed to dividing your community down the middle in an attempt to save your pride and/or ego”.

I hear what you are saying, Anet obviously do not. They are supporting the WvW part of their game, they do not view it as a sandbox and as far as they are concerned fair competitive PVP will take place in HOM and GvG will happen as and when they officially introduce it to the game should they choose to. In the mean time players are welcome to try and pursue such initiatives as GvG Fightclub Duelling etc but have to adjust themselves as WvW rules change. As the saying goes ’The lady is not for turning (except when it comes to vertical progression).

Well competitive pvp is not happening in sPVP at the moment as most sPVPers can attest to, its simply a bunch of cookie cutter builds being thrown against one another and not running one of these specific builds simply means you arent going to be effective.

World vs World is not a game format that can be “defined” by a set amount of actions be it siege, roaming or anything in between because its all encompassing since it incorporates all those game styles, it is actually doing that right now which means that by attempting to push out a single aspect of it people are actually trying to define what WvW is (simply doing what they say GvGers are doing at the moment also) which is complete hypocrisy! Does that make more sense?

ie: You shouldnt be able to do WvW the way you want to! You should do WvW the way I want to! No your opinion doesnt matter because its WvW! But wait what you are doing is in WvW which means its part of WvW but no! It shouldn’t be!

Get it?

Aneu.1748:

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

I see world vs world as a big playground for all different PVP style players, that have all these abilities and siege at hand and can hide and defend structures.

You can play GvG there if you want, but what I have been reading over the forums that players are asking to remove buffs because they want to play a different style in WvW where WvW is not been designed for. I think asking for that is crossing the line, because they already said that GvG mode wont be here anytime soon.

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

Aneu.1748:

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

I see world vs world as a big playground for all different PVP style players, that have all these abilities and siege at hand and can hide and defend structures.

You can play GvG there if you want, but what I have been reading over the forums that players are asking to remove buffs because they want to play a different style in WvW where WvW is not been designed for. I think asking for that is crossing the line, because they already said that GvG mode wont be here anytime soon.

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

Interesting opinion….however wrong it may be.

You could say the same about people on siege? They don’t have enough skill for sPvp or open field fights…so they need siege to get badges….I don’t think this statement is a fair assessment and neither is yours.

But you are correct in saying the game was meant to be about siege warfare and large scale combat. That was the intention….the problem was, they gave no system to manage large scale combat and point system as it stands heavily favors numbers and coverage.

Now I give them credit for attempting to fix the point portion with the upcoming releases (thank god)…. hopefully its the first step of many, but the reasons GvG’s exist is because like it or not the majority of people that actually play WvW regularly are in a guild and probably a guild that plays regularly in WvW, whether you are a 5 man roaming team with a group of friends (probably your own small guild) or a larger zerg busting guild.. while I respect the individuals that play on their own they do not make up the majority of WvWer’s. In fact I bet if all the WvW guilds left any server, the server would immediately fall to the bottom of the rankings….

Point being is that I understand there are different play modes, but the bottom line is, WvW is mostly made up of guilds and even newer players coming in, will probably look to join a guild that is WvW oriented if they like WvW….so why is the largest base of players in the game completely ignored? Ignorance and stubborness…that’s all. Anet is catering to a large group of people that they think exists, but don’t.

Who cares about GvG?? I’m a WvW player and also a Guild Member. I do like GvGs but in the end this is not about GvGs.

Anet is constantly screwing the WvW system with silly updates like the Wxp ranks (wich among them we can find greater range for trebuchets, catapults and more rampower. Hold on, Golem army buff its comming you know…) and next BL-ORB mechanic.

Incoming Orb mechanic will make the already unbalanced matchups even more unbalanced. Servers with really high WvW coverage will control the orb during most time getting even more points than they used to.

What exactly is the good point about orb mechanic? Can’t see any.

Again, the map revamp its awsome and Anet seem to have done a good job with that.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

With all due respect, people might be a little more tolerant of GvG if a large portion of GvGers didn’t suffer from the same delusions of grandeur that GvG players suffered from in the first game. If your fellow GvGers stopped trying to say that GvG is the only true test of skill and saying (either by implication or explicitly stating) that anyone who doesn’t GvG is therefore a bad player, bad at their profession, and probably sub-human in some way by default, maybe people would be more accepting.

-I don’t know if he GvGs or not, but serane would eat most GvGers alive in a 1v1 (with an ele, which the forum dwellers constantly say is bad, to boot).
-Plenty of spvp teams would eat GvGers alive in 5v5s.
-Some of the “other” WvW guilds (who don’t GvG) eat them alive in regular WvW encounters where there are no player defined rules, with less people and no siege.

tl;dr: When the elitism stops, maybe the bashing will also stop.

meh, i dont know which guilds you encountered who actually have shown this kind of behavior, but you are generalizing big time. There are always individuals like this, who think they have to behave like this, but thats not GvG-exclusive, they exist on both sides.

serane would probably eat most of the people alive, thats not GvG-exclusive either.
if you, instead of scaling it down, scale it up to 20 spvpers, they would get eaten too. ofcourse you will loose if you dont have the time to get some training.
I cant say a thing to the last 1 as i have never seen it happening.

tl;dr: Generalization-Level is over 9000

I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.

It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.

It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.

Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.

None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.

We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.

So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.

That bothers me.

Aneu.1748:

But wait what you are doing is in WvW which means its part of WvW but no! It shouldn’t be!

Get it?

They are theme park guys they get all scared when players start thinking for themselves and doing sandbox type stuff. WvW is a specific ride in their themepark they dont want people doing their own thing in there as it will scare all the other customers.

Magnetron.5823:

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

With the introduction of a league and with rewards for the first, second and third server in the league I wouldn’t really call wvw a playground, at least not with the upcoming changes. They are indeed, with mentioned changes, introducing a competitive scene. I think what the devs knew and wanted have been lost quite a while ago, unfortunately. Right now WvW is in a state of limbo where not very many know what will happen or where it will end, because its a real contradictive and inconsistent way that they handle things.

What is consistent tough, is that, some will do GvG, some will zerg, some will smale scale, others will put their interest in PPT and siege. Very well, lets all respect that and agree as a community that we differ and let us play how we want.

Magnetron.5823:

Aneu.1748:

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

What is World vs World to you exactly? Siege only? Players fighting other players? Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups? PPT? I am rather interested.

I would much prefer this thread not turn into a WvW v GvG v sPvP v 5man v Roamer v individual.

In response to your “sPVP players” remark, the winners of the most recent 5v5 Tournament at PAX are actually members of my guild

I see world vs world as a big playground for all different PVP style players, that have all these abilities and siege at hand and can hide and defend structures.

You can play GvG there if you want, but what I have been reading over the forums that players are asking to remove buffs because they want to play a different style in WvW where WvW is not been designed for. I think asking for that is crossing the line, because they already said that GvG mode wont be here anytime soon.

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

The reason people have been asking for the buff to be removed is because it creates a snowball effect for winners. A strong server becomes even stronger with a tripple buff on each of the borderlands giving them +150 to each stat and I agree with people who believe the buff to be out of place. WvW is not meant to be “balanced” by any means but unbalancing it intentionally is just crazy, wouldnt you agree?

Also as I said, sPVP isnt competitive at all, not with the limited amount of builds that are viable in the game which most serious sPVPers will attest to.

Erastmus.3785:

Magnetron.5823:

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

With the introduction of a league and with rewards for the first, second and third server in the league II wouldn’t really call wvw a playground, at least not with the upcoming changes. They are indeed, with mentioned changes, introducing a competitive scene. I think what the devs knew and wanted have been lost for quite a while ago, unfortunately. Right now it’s in a limbo where not very many know what will happen or where it will end, because its a real contradictive and inconsistent way that they handle things.

What is consistent tough, is that, some will do GvG, some will zerg, some will smale scale, others will put their interest in PPT and siege. Very well, lets all respect that and agree as a community that we differ and let us play how we want.

Yea, but in my eyes WvW will not and cannot be competitive because it is open for everyone.. lvl 1 to 80.

So then I understand the GvG scene, that they want a closed area without buffs,siege and only open for specific players.

So maybe a new gem shop item?

Custom WvW map? I think that will fix it for you guys.

Magnetron.5823:

Erastmus.3785:

Magnetron.5823:

And yes, I believe Spvp is the only competitive place for GW2 now. WvW has nothing to do with competition, its just a big playground.. and it is made for being a big playground, I believe the devs know that and want that.

With the introduction of a league and with rewards for the first, second and third server in the league II wouldn’t really call wvw a playground, at least not with the upcoming changes. They are indeed, with mentioned changes, introducing a competitive scene. I think what the devs knew and wanted have been lost for quite a while ago, unfortunately. Right now it’s in a limbo where not very many know what will happen or where it will end, because its a real contradictive and inconsistent way that they handle things.

What is consistent tough, is that, some will do GvG, some will zerg, some will smale scale, others will put their interest in PPT and siege. Very well, lets all respect that and agree as a community that we differ and let us play how we want.

Yea, but in my eyes WvW will not and cannot be competitive because it is open for everyone.. lvl 1 to 80.

So then I understand the GvG scene, that they want a closed area without buffs,siege and only open for specific players.

So maybe a new gem shop item?

Custom WvW map? I think that will fix it for you guys.

it would ofc.
but it wont happen.

also, this thread isnt about gvg, as already stated above.

Very good post Aneu, I also have to agree with Paraldawind

As stated not too long ago by Devon himself:
WvW is about managing siege, resources and open field combat.

In the current state of the game those 3 points do not get equal attention and 1 of these points even gets looked at with disgust and disrespect.
Those 3 points should be balanced, also WvW being inbalancedin design doesn’t mean you need to make it even more unbalanced towards the winning end.

Games are played for fun, not to punish losing.

ParaldaWind.4523:

I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.

It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.

It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.

Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.

None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.

We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.

So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.

That bothers me.

Thank you, I thought I made it quite apparent what the OP was about but it seems some people still feel the need to draw lines in the sand and start throwing rocks. Your reply is very much appreciated.

Aneu.1748:

ParaldaWind.4523:

I really am baffled how many people in this thread completely missed Aneu’s point.

It’s not about GvG. I’ve been trying to express this for awhile, and while I doubt anyone will really listen now, I’ll try again.

It’s about respect and acknowledgment. GvG is, on its own, not a separate gametype. GvG has always just been a way for the more organized open field guilds to ask, “I wonder who’s the best?” and simulate open field fights in a controlled environment. I cannot think of a single guild that GvGs more often than they raid in WvW, and that’s because GvGs are meant to prepare and improve a guild’s open field strategy.

Personally, I raid 5 days a week for 3 to 5 hours a day. I have over 3k hours logged, almost all of it in WvW. Most of my guild members have well over 1k hours logged in WvW. I am sure that Aneu’s guild, Sylas’s guild, Dranul’s guild, Jericho’s guild, Odinzu’s guild, Naytron’s guild, Tzenjin’s guild, etc, all have similar numbers that they could attest to. We are a significant population of very dedicated players who happen to like to focus on open field fights, and we feel ignored, and honestly, disrespected.

None of the changes that have been implemented since Devon Carver has arrived, save for culling, have helped our playstyles or communities. Every single time we try to point this out, we’re either ignored, brushed under the rug, moved to a different subforum, had our posts deleted, had our thread titles editorialized by the mods, or been responded to in condescending and stubborn ways.

We just want good fights. This game has some of the best group combat that I’ve ever played, and the fights that I do have are incredible, but I really fear that ignoring this segment of the population is going to lessen a lot of the fun of the fights that we would normally have. Sure, orbs affect GvGs, and that sucks, but did you ever think to wonder WHY orbs might suck? GvG is a simulation of open field combat. Anything that negatively affects GvG combat or skilled fighting (ie, non-siege fights) also will affect the open field mechanic of the game. Open field, which, in my opinion, is one of the few true end-games in GW2.

So, yes, GvG being ruined sucks for guilds like mine, however, it’s not the problem. The problem is the clear lack of understanding that Anet displays of their own game. The problem is the lack of communication to arguably the most active segment of the community. The problem is that we really — REALLY — like this game, but the parts of it we like are being slowly taken away from us for no apparent reason.

That bothers me.

Thank you, I thought I made it quite apparent what the OP was about but it seems some people still feel the need to draw lines in the sand and start throwing rocks. Your reply is very much appreciated.

I feel like the open field community unfortunately did this to itself by trying to use GvG to back all of our arguments. GvG is great and all, but I really feel like it’s only a small aspect of what these guilds do.

WvW, by Devon Carver’s own definition, includes open field fighting. I wish we had framed our arguments against his proposed changes with that in mind.

Lurch.9517:

Aneu.1748:

But wait what you are doing is in WvW which means its part of WvW but no! It shouldn’t be!

Get it?

They are theme park guys they get all scared when players start thinking for themselves and doing sandbox type stuff. WvW is a specific ride in their themepark they dont want people doing their own thing in there as it will scare all the other customers.

Totally agree!!!

This is what i noticed about GW2, dispites mistakes made i believe they are trying to rework them.

Anet still has to learn they’re engine was a bad choice, any content they will throw will not fit the engine mechanics and that is why there are complains ,it is ugly and old concept and will get many player confused , the content would feed a more like “openbox” game (pseudo sandbox without the overflow districts) it would deliver a more real time sense for the Living Story where LS could be more alive and with more player interaction, a book passing in the eyes of the players and not a minor expansion with a time gap for titles.
I almost dont know where to start when i hear WvW words, since was the only thing from game i defined as playable yet had major design flaws as battle arena map style gets bored overtime, i rather have a map similiar to tyria being updated by guilds conquering castles and zones.

Reasons why people missed your point Aneu:
MMO players have short attention spans (example: even your guild is already planing to move on to another game after only a year). So long winded posts with large paragraphs get skipped over.
While Anets try to re-introduce the orb mechanic in a positive manner may be misguided, it is equally misguided for the GvG scene to try to block it by saying it destroys their type of gameplay. Anet is trying to revitalize/help the WvW aspect of the game, you cannot and should not hold it against them.
If equal play is so important, then send some people to keep capture points neutralized then. If your guild is good enough, then they can provide you with the buff-less environment you so dearly desire. If they are not, then it’s part of PvP, win and lose.
And no, most people do not chastise the GvG players. It’s when they refuse to help their server win that the animosity builds as well as the often thrown out phrases in map chat regarding those who are not in their guild as terrible, useless, lower than them etc. Before you say it’s “few and far in between” I’ve seen it on 2 servers and it always comes from guilds that GvG and that feel they are better than the rest on their server.

In the end I wish there was a GvG platform like in GW1, that would really resolve everyones issues, but in the meantime please also understand that you cannot try to manipulate the direction of WvW towards your goal when in fact you don’t directly participate in the true goal of WvW game type. I welcome you fighting for those cap spots to keep the buff out of players hands.

Altie.4571:

(…) In the end I wish there was a GvG platform like in GW1, that would really resolve everyones issues, but in the meantime please also understand that you cannot try to manipulate the direction of WvW towards your goal when in fact you don’t directly participate in the true goal of WvW game type. I welcome you fighting for those cap spots to keep the buff out of players hands.

I am already seing the movie where server A B and C fights on A map, while some want to cap those new spots other will rage against the buff due pseudo GvG and this in same server.

Great post, people love to forget that all these so called GvG guild spend 4-5 nights a week in WvW and 1-2 doing GvGs.

This stat bonus buff is not just an end to GvG it is anticompetitive to all players of WvW. Please don’t do this to the WvW community.

Altie
On the point of the buff being neutral, that would be impossible as the buff can only be taken if 1 server caps 3 points. The buff will be kept even if the said server has 0 capture points, correct me if I’m wrong here.
Anyway, this subject is not the meaning of this great post

Great post Aneu, agree with everything.

Hey Aneu,

I`ve been critizing GvGers heavily in other threads but I want to thank you for this beautiful piece of text. It`s been a while since I`ve read such a well worded post with so much truth in it. I don`t think this post is meant to be about GvG at all, it`s just asking for more acceptance and coexistance for all the different kinds of players who share a passion for WvW.

Sadly, some people just recognize your guild tag and ignore the opinion (and appeal) you`re trying to share.

Thanks again, best regards.

+1. Great post.

Beautiful posts here in this thread. Couldn’t agree more with you Aneu and Paldawind.

Esuni.2498:

Altie
On the point of the buff being neutral, that would be impossible as the buff can only be taken if 1 server caps 3 points. The buff will be kept even if the said server has 0 capture points, correct me if I’m wrong here.
Anyway, this subject is not the meaning of this great post

I’ll have to check but from what I interpreted their post as it was “you must hold all 3 points to receive a buff” So neutralizing one of the points should neutralize the buff meaning it’s not perpetually active somewhere.

Altie.4571:

Esuni.2498:

Altie
On the point of the buff being neutral, that would be impossible as the buff can only be taken if 1 server caps 3 points. The buff will be kept even if the said server has 0 capture points, correct me if I’m wrong here.
Anyway, this subject is not the meaning of this great post

I’ll have to check but from what I interpreted their post as it was “you must hold all 3 points to receive a buff” So neutralizing one of the points should neutralize the buff meaning it’s not perpetually active somewhere.

Neutralizing the points does not strip the buff. You have to actually cap it from someone.

Altie.4571:

Esuni.2498:

Altie
On the point of the buff being neutral, that would be impossible as the buff can only be taken if 1 server caps 3 points. The buff will be kept even if the said server has 0 capture points, correct me if I’m wrong here.
Anyway, this subject is not the meaning of this great post

I’ll have to check but from what I interpreted their post as it was “you must hold all 3 points to receive a buff” So neutralizing one of the points should neutralize the buff meaning it’s not perpetually active somewhere.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/457403128
23:20

“you lose the buff if someone takes it from you, if the point neutralises, you keep the buff”

Altie, I quite frankly couldn’t care about the orb buff affecting GvG – I care about the snowball effect it is going to be guaranteed to have of making the strongest server in a match-up stronger. This is what happened when the previous orb buff was in place and introducing this system will simply consolidate the requirement for every server that wishes to be competitive to run with everyone in a single group. As the leader of a group of players that generally run with around 30 in WvW I can tell you that it is possible to take on double if not triple the number and win but to do this there has to be no other fights going on while you are on the map and the servers have to be able to hold up otherwise lag kicks in and the smaller group gets shafted…

What is the reason we still run as a 30man group? Because we wish to get better, we wish to be competitive, we play the game for a challenge, as WvW players this is what we enjoy. I am by no means saying to people “dont zerg” but what I would like is to see Anet actually do something about this god awful lag and equal the playing field – at least in terms of infrastructure so that fights like these arent even more one sided than they need to be. Also dont introduce the buff in the form of stats, it will just do as I said above and create a snowball of the strong servers retaining the buff and being even stronger…

There is no vision for WvW, they quite obviously don’t have a future in mind or what route it should take and that is a scary prospect especially when it will have some direct competition in the very near future.

I did mention in my post that I agree that their incorporation of the buff may be misguided as it can potentially create an even bigger discrepancy between the have vs. the have not servers.

But this is a 2nd time around, and I’m hoping that something has been learned. I will reserve judgment until we see it in action. As we all should.

Altie.4571:

I did mention in my post that I agree that their incorporation of the buff may be misguided as it can potentially create an even bigger discrepancy between the have vs. the have not servers.

But this is a 2nd time around, and I’m hoping that something has been learned. I will reserve judgment until we see it in action. As we all should.

Wait and see was said about the complaints about Ilum in SWTOR… it was said about the class balance in RIFT, it was also said about 1 hit kills in TERA… we all know how they turned out and Anets previous screw ups with regards to WvW really don’t imbue a sense of reliability in what they are doing…

Plus we dont need to see it, we know what will happen…

Gamadorn.2659:

Magnetron.5823:

Alright first of all, I do understand that there are players like you who like to fight without buffs and without siege, and do not have the skill level required for Spvp.

That’s why you guys come to WvW and are hiding in desolate spots to have your own ‘private’ fights.

But please understand the words that I will put here now, and share them with the rest of your community.

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

There is no GvG mode in GW2. Maybe someday in the future, but not now. So please can you guys stop being so much trolls in every Livestream, Forum, Newspaper, Twitter or what ever and stop spamming GVG GVG GVG.

I am sick of it, and so are a lot of other players.

Interesting opinion….however wrong it may be.

You could say the same about people on siege? They don’t have enough skill for sPvp or open field fights…so they need siege to get badges….I don’t think this statement is a fair assessment and neither is yours.

But you are correct in saying the game was meant to be about siege warfare and large scale combat. That was the intention….the problem was, they gave no system to manage large scale combat and point system as it stands heavily favors numbers and coverage.

Now I give them credit for attempting to fix the point portion with the upcoming releases (thank god)…. hopefully its the first step of many, but the reasons GvG’s exist is because like it or not the majority of people that actually play WvW regularly are in a guild and probably a guild that plays regularly in WvW, whether you are a 5 man roaming team with a group of friends (probably your own small guild) or a larger zerg busting guild.. while I respect the individuals that play on their own they do not make up the majority of WvWer’s. In fact I bet if all the WvW guilds left any server, the server would immediately fall to the bottom of the rankings….

Point being is that I understand there are different play modes, but the bottom line is, WvW is mostly made up of guilds and even newer players coming in, will probably look to join a guild that is WvW oriented if they like WvW….so why is the largest base of players in the game completely ignored? Ignorance and stubborness…that’s all. Anet is catering to a large group of people that they think exists, but don’t.

I think this is pretty much the true situation here. I’m not a big fan of dueling and GvG within WvW but I understand why both exist. Aside from the fact that many players simply enjoy those modes, the fact is that ANet has so totally messed up their original concept of siege warfare (for which there is a year’s worth of unheeded forum complaints and suggestions) that hardly anybody wants to play it that way anymore.

I personally prefer strategy-based WvW that includes both large groups and small groups, scouts, control of objectives, use of offensive and defensive siege with moderation, teamwork, and positional awareness … more like chess on a battlefield than single or group gladiatorial combat. But for all its original promise WvW isn’t that at all, certainly not anymore, and I don’t criticize anyone for using the maps to better purpose.

The devs have only themselves to blame for creating this mess, both here on the forums and in game. Make two lists … one showing the key changes/improvements to WvW that have been requested over and over again by players who actually wanted to play WvW as it was originally designed and promoted by ANet, and another that shows the modifications and additions that have actually happened since launch. The correlation is so low that statistically they would be classified as unrelated.

Aneu.1748:

What is World vs World to you exactly?

I will happily answer that.

Siege only?

Not ONLY siege, but siege warfare plays a major role in what WvW was designed to be.

Players fighting other players?

Yes, absolutely, as long as everyone accepts that there will times when they may be fighting 5 to 50 odds, and sometimes they may fighting 50 to 5.
We all also need to accept that hiding in a tower with arrow carts is a valid way for players to fight players.
Running dolyaks, capping camps, and hitting gates to cause diversionary orange swords are also valid ways for players to “fight” an opposing server.

Guild groups running around engaging other guild groups?

If you mean organised guild raids, then yes, absolutely. I loved being in highly-organised guild raids, with vox-comms, target-calling, and designated roles; and taking-on the opposing zerg or other opposing guilds on open warfare.
If you mean GvG as it is currently being implemented by the players, then no.

PPT?

I am on a low-tier server. We will never win on PPT – all we have is server pride and a desire to enjoy ourselves. We fight, we have fun, we lose, we have fun.
I would rather have a couple of freewheeling, open-field fights with no PPT value than sit camping a tower for its’ points value.

I have a question for the GvGers…

Would you guys be happy with a map (either a mirror of a borderland, or a mirror of an sPvP map) with its’ own portal from LA, which is entirely outside of WvW and sPvP.
Map population limits would be adequate to allow multiple guilds (200ish players)
No sPvP restrictions would apply.
No WvW features would exist.
You could fight each other with your own suits/builds, and without any siege weapons or server buffs, and with no chance of a random WvW team interfering.

If this would be suitable, why not petition for this; rather than constantly asking for WvW changes to accommodate your playstyle.

I appreciate that a lot of WvWers want the opportunity to fight in more controlled environments, and I appreciate that the lack of a GvG arena is a missed opportunity on ANETs behalf: But please ask for your own arena, rather than keep asking for WvW changes to modify this gamestyle to match what you want.

The only reason GvG is even a thing is because ANet has not incentivized defending sitting on an AC waiting is not fun, which has lead to massive numbers of people pounding undefended doors as the meta, the siege masteries have made this worse by making it easier to crack open walls. People who GvG like fighting people, unfortunately ANet decided the anti-zerg was siege, and now zergs just avoid anything with siege running circles pounding random roamers into the ground. The only time I ever get a fun fight is with my guild flanking the rare zerg v zerg and even that can go bad if our commander decides he’s losing & starts running. People like winning & nabbing bags, so why defend anything? There’s no significant reward for the player or the server for that matter, both can get more loot & PPT pounding undefended doors. And that’s why people like GvGs because they’re good fights. In a perfect WvW the players would split up to take & hold objectives, but there’s no incentive to hold anything anymore.

Great post. Too bad it’ll either be ignored by Devon or not read at all. Regardless I hope more people actually read and understand what you’re trying to say.

+1’d OP. //15 characters

Magnetron.5823:

This is WvW, and WvW should be about WvW only. The whole WvW game mode was intended for using sieges in defence and attack, it is an unique game mode for a MMO.

Please give the respect to the WvW team and let them work with only WvW because that is their passion.

Frankly speaking, the siege mechanics, function and utility, graphics and fun factor for the siege equipment is seriously lackluster—especially given that you claim it to be the focal point of WvW.

I do not think that anyone could argue that firing any of the siege equipment for 5 minutes, is more enjoyable than engaging in a direct player-to-player fight (single or group) for the same amount of time.

Siege is by far an integral part of World vs World but it should most deffinatley not be what World vs World is focused around tbh. Siege engines are tools for player use and they should not be put in as a gimmick to make up for bad playing.

Let me use last night as an example. This is how World vs World is on a lot of servers currently.

We enter the borderland – We run around in a group of 30 and engage groups double if not triple our number. We whittle them down and wipe them up, not really a big deal. After the first few engagements they decide to hold back quite a bit and then start to hot-drop arrowcarts in order to fight us, again we don’t mind that, we still win.

Rememmber that this is a group of 60+ people all following a single commander. We take a quick break and our numbers drop to around 20-25. At this point they rally every person on their map on the single commander and decide to bunker inside a keep. The other enemy server gets in the keep with another zerg and we are left absolutely out in the cold simply due to the fact that lag will kill us. We can’t engage their numbers because we cant activate stability, we cant support each-other, the only thing that works is autoattack thus their more numbers will win. #

This is the infrastructure of the game actually directly affecting WvW combat. This is not GvG – This is World vs World and we cant play it as it should be played due to a system that directly contradicts what World vs World should be!

Why then are the developers introducing a new system where key systems will make one side stronger (generally the already strongest side) and make lag worse due to these blobs being focused on a focal point of the borderlands maps (the area where the water is now) and bringin their entire server group to counter other enemies…

It is not going to work, the system can’t handle a 25v60 at the moment let alone a 3 way. If people want real World vs World then start banging on about the infrastructure not working as intended rather than trying to push out various game style aspects of WvW in general.

Although some of your points are correct Aneu I believe the overall post is very wrong. Your implying that GvG is as much a part of “World vs World” as using siege and having massive blobs engage each-other to defend an object.

The GvG community atm has a lot of hatred towards it because of how it acts, it is full of elitism and overall immaturity, during the recent PAX livestream where Anet revealed yet more PvE content the whole twitch chat was spammed with GvG and different guild tags some of them even top ones such as GD and yourselves VoTF, and I know this is just a select few of the GvG community but still it leaves a very bad taste of what the community itself is like.

Another reason I feel the WvW community doesn’t care at all about the GvG community and likes to see it suffer is because whenever there is a GvG scheduled the guilds spam map chat asking people to leave to get guild members in even though the randoms you are telling to leave are doing more for the server than the guild itself.

World vs World was created for sniping squads or massive zergs to engage each-other to defend or capture stuff but never was GvG planned and never was it meant to be a part of WvW when the developers created it, so I don’t see how you can say the GvG community is a part of the WvW community and I’m happy that Anet updates are slowly killing off the GvG scene but I do hope eventually they create an arena for you guys to keep you out of “World vs World”.

You obviously didn’t understand the post if you decide to reply with regards to GvG.

Once again another person blinkered into the thought that this post is about GvG when it quite blatantly isn’t… Well done to you good sir, put your hatred for a certain aspect of the game before the possibility of creating a worth while post and or reading the main post and understanding it. I commend you.

As i see it i have been in wvwvw since the beta played the ppt game till the moment i realised that it is not the skill that make the difference but mostly the numbers .
so after a year of soloroaming scouting dollyescorting and never get rewards i got fed up.
So i joined a guild in the hope that it would bring a new fresh air in my gamingmoments.
Now we do weekly some gvg but still alot of wvwvw just to help out my fellow servermates does that make me a bad wvwvw player just because we do this little battle once and a while?
as been stated before most of the gvg people are the hardcore wvwvw people who played the game from day one and got bored of the the same old same old.
So instead of bashing eachother we just have to show some respect because were all WVWVW players ……