Guild Wars 2

There has recently been a mass influx of glamour mesmers running pure confusion builds and destroying anything in their path. Do you have any plans for this or do you expect us to just deal with it?

I mean you can’t even dodge roll or you die.

Funny how they weren’t a problem until someone highlighted it on these forums. Epidemic OG!

Lol. Taking bets on what Bunzy & OG will whine about next.

Confusion only triggers on dodge if you have anything attached to the dodge roll mechanic which counts as skill use. Other than that, how do you deal with mass thieves instagibbing you? How do you deal with mass eles stun locking you? How do you deal with mass guardians perma trapping you with their whatsitcalled bubble?

At least you can deal with confusion since it’s a normal condition. You can remove it, you can transfer it to enemies, you can convert it to boons, you can clear it with combo fields, etc. etc. etc. Against a bunch of thieves abusing the horrible culling in mass combat to instagib targets there’s nothing you can do.

Everyone knows mezzers are OP !

Confusion can be cleansed. Don’t stand in red circles. L2p issue, really.

Baelnorn.5710:

Confusion only triggers on dodge if you have anything attached to the dodge roll mechanic which counts as skill use.

And some of those are from minor traits which you pick up automatically when you put points in a tree. So your solution is “well, just don’t invest points in that tree that is necessary for your build” and you find that reasonable?

Other than that, how do you deal with mass thieves instagibbing you?

I use block, invulnerability, and knockbacks. Stun breaker is used if they have basilisk venom.

How do you deal with mass eles stun locking you?

I use stunbreaker and stability.

How do you deal with mass guardians perma trapping you with their whatsitcalled bubble?

I use stability or ports to get out.

Against a bunch of thieves abusing the horrible culling in mass combat to instagib targets there’s nothing you can do.

You sure that isn’t a L2P issue?

transtemporal.2158:

Funny how they weren’t a problem until someone highlighted it on these forums. Epidemic OG!

This…

I still don’t run that build on my mesmer, but after seeing everyone cry about it I was very tempted.

Moral of the story is to post your opinions to Anet directly, not tell the whole world about the hard counter to your build and act surprised when more and more people use it lol.

what is happening with 100 blades
what is happening with thieves
what is happening with Ect ect ect

I always get upset when people QQ beacuse they cant run round WvW without getting hit.

Our build counters your build and forces you to use more cd removel if you want to survive. i wont say it is a L2P issue i will say it is a " better grasp of the games machanics issue "

look forward to Stacking Confusion on you soon

Bunzy is a D/D ele. Confusion mesmers are a hard counter to his build. D/D ele’s have frequent change of attunements, frequently use their skill bars; this is why confusion is deadly to them.

I am a Mesmer who runs either a shattercat build, or a glam confusion build. I can kill D/D ele’s in either build; BUT it is a heck of a lot easier to do so in a confusion build. D/D ele’s spam soo many buttons that they melt themselves to death.

It’s a discipline issue and a l2p issue. Period.

eqpablon.9072:

It’s a discipline issue and a l2p issue. Period.

This isn’t a question of what you think, it’s a question of what the devs think. Period.

Also I’d say that confusion mesmer is not a hard counter to d/d ele because it’s not like a d/d ele can’t beat a single confusion mesmer.

The only time glamour mesmers really become troublesome is when there are several of them in a large encounter. It’s easy enough to avoid one feedback, one null field. It’s pretty tough to deal with six or ten of them being spread in overlapping patterns.

The cheese is in the zerg comp, not the small group comp.

Oozo.7856:

And some of those are from minor traits which you pick up automatically when you put points in a tree. So your solution is “well, just don’t invest points in that tree that is necessary for your build” and you find that reasonable?

Well… tough luck? Not all builds are created equal.

Oozo.7856:

I use block, invulnerability, and knockbacks. Stun breaker is used if they have basilisk venom.

And how many of those do you have? I find it extremely hard to believe that your whole build exclusively (and of course all by coincidence) focuses around those boons and skills which can effectively counter thieves.

Oozo.7856:

I use stunbreaker and stability.

Same here.

My ranger build for example doesn’t have a stunbreaker or stability. Do you see me going to the forums and QQ about how imba and op D/D elementalists are because my build choices allow them to effectively hardcounter me?

Nope. I accept that either I manage to outplay them and quickly down them, or they get the better of me because of my build choices.

Oozo.7856:

I use stability or ports to get out.

Oh, please tell me again what a ranger should use here. Perhaps Rampage as One, our only 20s stability on 120s cooldown? And of course our non-existing teleport…

Oozo.7856:

You sure that isn’t a L2P issue?

Nice, now you’re in denial that there’s an issue with culling at all and instead put up an ad hominem. You see, coincidentally I have a screenshot from an earlier fight today:

• http://imgur.com/BQkI7rb

At the entrance to the camp there’s about 10 of my allies and ontop of the cliff in the poison cloud there are at least 5 invaders. Good to see them all, right? Hey, at least I see the arrows from my ally… it’s something, I guess.

Baelnorn.5710:

a lot of things

Maybe you shouldn’t be taking your ranger to group wvw? But I thought this was a thread about how OP confusion mes’s were in group wvw, not how bad rangers were in them. (Which, I think is a serious issue. And I’m not saying rangers suck across the board, they definitely have their place)

To the topic at hand, good confusion spreads with epidemic require both passive build and active team coordination; Thus, oddly enough, dealing with it requires the same. Adapt to the meta, pack more condi removal, and bring null field mesmers and well necros of your own to deal with it.

>Confusion does damage for every action you do
>Bunzy plays a D/D Ele and flails away on his 1-0 keys more than Beethoven trying to learn the sounds of the keyboard for the first time
>Bunzy, the invincible “I never lose a fight” God from OG, dies in about 3 seconds because he literally kills himself before he can “reset” the fight

Get over yourself. The problem isn’t that Confusion got “popular”, it’s that you finally found a Mesmer smart enough to target you in your OG zerg and slap confusion on you while they laugh their kitten off because you’re a free kill.

Unfortunately.5940:

Lol. Taking bets on what Bunzy & OG will whine about next.

whatever it is that kills them. if it kills OG it must be OP and requires an immediate forum thread and nerf. followed by lots and lots of infractions

I’m really more interested in seeing what the developers are thinking on this issue. If we’re lucky maybe we’ll get a response and we can set the issue to rest.

I don’t know if you’re complaining about confusion or glamour. Glamour is a very specific spec and sacrifices a lot of survivability by offensively tossing utilities that can potentially do zero damage.

I keep seeing condition mesmers confused for glamour and they’re completely different.

Pinko.2076:

I don’t know if you’re complaining about confusion or glamour. Glamour is a very specific spec and sacrifices a lot of survivability by offensively tossing utilities that can potentially do zero damage.

I keep seeing condition mesmers confused for glamour and they’re completely different.

I believe OP was posting specifically about “glamour mesmers running pure confusion builds.” Most likely referring to traits that blind/confuse on placement and confuse when foes enter/exit glamor fields.

I don’t see your confusion. Pun unintended.

Really, the issues as I see them are:

1. Confusion does damage on things it really should not do damage on
2. The punishment is a bit too severe for the ease of application due to PvE-inflated damage in conjunction with increased damage from gear, food, and oil.

The second is not just specific to confusion but is a more general issue (WvW balance taking a back seat to sPvP and PvE balance).

Thor.1756:

I believe OP was posting specifically about “glamour mesmers running pure confusion builds.” Most likely referring to traits that blind/confuse on placement and confuse when foes enter/exit glamor fields.

I don’t see your confusion. Pun unintended.

What is a glamour mesmer who doesn’t get those traits?

I think the mesmer shatter build needs looking at more than any thing. I’ve seen a mesmer solo 5 people with that build because people are either forced to chase (get shattered) or die. The only thing you can do against a shatter mesmer (the good ones) is run until you got a 10+ zerg to be able to kill just one mesmer.

Azure Prower.8701:

I think the mesmer shatter build needs looking at more than any thing. I’ve seen a mesmer solo 5 people with that build because people are either forced to chase (get shattered) or die. The only thing you can do against a shatter mesmer (the good ones) is run until you got a 10+ zerg to be able to kill just one mesmer.

wut.

Shatter mesmers are dealt with like any glass cannon. Dodge their burst, cc, kill. Easy peasy.

Just because their aoe nature means they can shatter down multiple people at once doesnt make it OP.

Azure Prower.8701:

I think the mesmer shatter build needs looking at more than any thing. I’ve seen a mesmer solo 5 people with that build because people are either forced to chase (get shattered) or die. The only thing you can do against a shatter mesmer (the good ones) is run until you got a 10+ zerg to be able to kill just one mesmer.

…
Anyone good at their class can solo 5 bads.
Especially if they’re upleveled, which I’m sure you’ll claim they weren’t in your case.

I assure you that no shatter mesmer is soloing five people if they have /any/ idea what they’re doing.

eqpablon.9072:

Bunzy is a D/D ele. Confusion mesmers are a hard counter to his build. D/D ele’s have frequent change of attunements, frequently use their skill bars; this is why confusion is deadly to them.

I am a Mesmer who runs either a shattercat build, or a glam confusion build. I can kill D/D ele’s in either build; BUT it is a heck of a lot easier to do so in a confusion build. D/D ele’s spam soo many buttons that they melt themselves to death.

It’s a discipline issue and a l2p issue. Period.

and anet is looking at eles for possible nerf… now someone wants to nerf mesmers.. i remember when thieves were complained for nerfing ( yeah i was one of them but some pretty much said L2P, meaning find a weakness and learn how to fight them ),, so i did and it took time and money figuring out a build that i like and learning how to counter them.

if you are a dd ele running solo then you are gonna have to expect to lose. i lose as well. i dont beat every theif but i win most and tie some. this mesmer build would probably destroy me. either learn how to counter them with your current build, or change your build to beat them, or accept the fact that you cant beat everyone.

Next thing you’ll see that is OP in the forums in the tool kit engineer.

Thor.1756:

wut.

Shatter mesmers are dealt with like any glass cannon. Dodge their burst, cc, kill. Easy peasy.

Just because their aoe nature means they can shatter down multiple people at once doesnt make it OP.

You did a pretty good job at invaliding any credibility you had on the topic of mesmers.

Awww poor Bunzy

A D/D ele complaining about other classes?

Wow…

These people that think its a L2P issue obviously have never come up against a large group all running glamour mesmers. You can only cleanse so much before you get blown up instantly.

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

And you have never been hit by a large group of thevies who back stab a group of messmers down just as quick.
We run in large numbers and if you have great squad orgainization you can be effective.

So as a D/D ele your not set up for burst damage?

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

1. Maguuma begging to go to T4 for fair fights
2. 2 days into the match there is a post of the best 1v1 class on forums complaining about fights not being fair.
3. Biggest Maguuma troll got trolled.

Result? Priceless…

ok so do you just run in and button bash when you see a zerg i think you might be upset with the fact the Mesmers can counter D/D eles and you dont get as many bags as you use to.

Speak to the mesmer in your guild they will tell you how to counter it or just get some more Con Removal in you build.

Jesus. Another one of these threads?

Glammer mesmers are np for me.

I just put on my tag and let the zerg roll over them.

RRZ
(Rapid Response Zerg)

Its a WvW service that saves lives,
Donate today.

LoL if you think a few mesmers is bad try T1 where they also use epidemic necros to spread 15 stacks of it to your whole zerg in a matter of seconds lol.

Confusion is easy to deal with. It just requires discipline. Don’t go blundering on when you have confusion. Make sure if you are running into a group that has mass confusion as their main focus that you have condition removal in your build or mass removal in your party. Guardians are your best friend when facing these groups. Wells and Null fields also work well.

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

You’ve got countless people here telling you to l2p,
And told you the same thing last time.

Why don’t you spend some of the time you spend QQing on the forums and whining to big daddy Anet to nerf the competition for you, and go learn how to play the game

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

You’ve got countless people here telling you to l2p,
And told you the same thing last time.

Why don’t you spend some of the time you spend QQing on the forums and whining to big daddy Anet to nerf the competition for you, and go learn how to play the game

All the people who are saying L2P are mesmers… isn’t it ironic don’t you think?

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

You’ve got countless people here telling you to l2p,
And told you the same thing last time.

Why don’t you spend some of the time you spend QQing on the forums and whining to big daddy Anet to nerf the competition for you, and go learn how to play the game

All the people who are saying L2P are mesmers… isn’t it ironic don’t you think?

I’m a shatter mesmer, my condition damage is next to nil.
They could remove confusion from the game entirely and I’d be largely unaffected.

But I do find it amusing that eventually everyone whining for a Confusion nerf has no argument left to fall back on other than “It’s only mesmers defending it”

Fixeon.5076:

LoL if you think a few mesmers is bad try T1 where they also use epidemic necros to spread 15 stacks of it to your whole zerg in a matter of seconds lol.

Confusion is easy to deal with. It just requires discipline. Don’t go blundering on when you have confusion. Make sure if you are running into a group that has mass confusion as their main focus that you have condition removal in your build or mass removal in your party. Guardians are your best friend when facing these groups. Wells and Null fields also work well.

I agree.

Us mesmers have to deal with confusion on us in T1 like you said Stop look listen Live lol

What is Anet doing about the massive heals/boons eles have?
What is Anet doing about perm-stealth thieves and their million ways of being stealthed 90% of the time
What is Anet doing about Thief/Warrior Burst?
What is Anet doing about Engineers instagibbing people with 100nade?
What is Anet doing about Necros epidemic?
What is Anet doing about rangers who spam traps with troll ungent?

Am I suppose to deal with all this? Come on, where’s the easy button!

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

You’ve got countless people here telling you to l2p,
And told you the same thing last time.

Why don’t you spend some of the time you spend QQing on the forums and whining to big daddy Anet to nerf the competition for you, and go learn how to play the game

All the people who are saying L2P are mesmers… isn’t it ironic don’t you think?

not a mesmer. l2p. i’m a ranger and these guys give me little problem. just cant skill mash. woe is you

also, isnt it ironic how the only people that defend D/D eles, are D/D eles?

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

EnRohbi.2187:

Bunzy.8674:

kfarb.6732:

Sometimes large groups will kill people, yes.

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

You use all your condition removals in under one second?

I think you’re just mashing buttons and not paying attention

I don’t think you understand the concept of time.
The fight can last 30 seconds and they can still blow you up in under 1 second.

You’ve got countless people here telling you to l2p,
And told you the same thing last time.

Why don’t you spend some of the time you spend QQing on the forums and whining to big daddy Anet to nerf the competition for you, and go learn how to play the game

All the people who are saying L2P are mesmers… isn’t it ironic don’t you think?

not a mesmer. l2p. i’m a ranger and these guys give me little problem. just cant skill mash. woe is you

also, isnt it ironic how the only people that defend D/D eles, are D/D eles?

not all.. im dd ele and i posted above.. builds are designed to have counters.. if you cant beat em and want to you have to change your build or change profession,, if you dont want to change then you have to live with losing to the mesmers or anything else that counters your build

Bunzy.8674:

They can blow everyone up in under 1 second.

Last I checked you have to cause confusion’s damage with your own actions. If you’re blowing up due to confusion it’s because of your skill flailing that you do is blowing yourself up in 1 second (which is a huge exaggeration). Stop playing a D/D Ele and learn to play the game.

Confusion is absolutely ridiculous and most certainly needs to be nerfed. I think the only people who dispute that are the ones who run it themselves or in their group. It does far too much damage and can be reapplied far faster than it can be cleansed.

You people keep pointing to the fact that Bunzy is a d/d ele to invalidate what he’s saying. Do you realize d/d only has one spell that cleanses conditions and it’s a single condition? My build barely cleanses conditions, and I had to switch to a heal I don’t like as much to help with that, and it’s still not enough. Should all eles be forced to run triple cantrip 30 water builds to have any chance in hell of not killing themselves vs a confusion mesmer which is becoming massively fotm? Is that good for the game?

Also, that ele build is getting nerfed. So a build which is considered to be so overpowered that it is getting a decent hit with the nerf bat gets destroyed by another build, and that other build is perfectly balanced?

Any class/build that lacks massive condition clearing or uses fast attacks gets kitten on by confusion. And there’s the whole anti-fun aspect of the skill. Confusion should act as a short term punishment for not paying attention, not something that makes you run around like you have a 90% uptime daze on you.

It’s seriously the most frustrating thing in the game. Send your hordes of perma stealth thieves at me. Send engies and rangers which hard counter my build. Send the eles with better dueling builds. Send anything but those kittening confusion mesmers.

Confusion scales far more than any other condition and activates on certain things that it shouldn’t activate on. When you go up against 15 mesmers running confusion build it becomes difficult to purge that many conditions – but it is doable. They just need to tweak it down a little bit so it’s still effective, but so that 12 stacks re-applied every .5 seconds isn’t instant death.

dreztina.4820:

Confusion is absolutely ridiculous and most certainly needs to be nerfed. I think the only people who dispute that are the ones who run it themselves or in their group. It does far too much damage and can be reapplied far faster than it can be cleansed.

You people keep pointing to the fact that Bunzy is a d/d ele to invalidate what he’s saying. Do you realize d/d only has one spell that cleanses conditions and it’s a single condition? My build barely cleanses conditions, and I had to switch to a heal I don’t like as much to help with that, and it’s still not enough. Should all eles be forced to run triple cantrip 30 water builds to have any chance in hell of not killing themselves vs a confusion mesmer which is becoming massively fotm? Is that good for the game?

Also, that ele build is getting nerfed. So a build which is considered to be so overpowered that it is getting a decent hit with the nerf bat gets destroyed by another build, and that other build is perfectly balanced?

Any class/build that lacks massive condition clearing or uses fast attacks gets kitten on by confusion. And there’s the whole anti-fun aspect of the skill. Confusion should act as a short term punishment for not paying attention, not something that makes you run around like you have a 90% uptime daze on you.

It’s seriously the most frustrating thing in the game. Send your hordes of perma stealth thieves at me. Send engies and rangers which hard counter my build. Send the eles with better dueling builds. Send anything but those kittening confusion mesmers.

lol, coming from a OG member. OG=thieves and d/d eles that gank people as soon as they see that og hav higer number then them( if they run into PRO that runs around with higher numbers, they run away)…one day they came across AVTR, that had 8 members with them at the time, OG had a round 12…well OG got destroyed, because AVTR uses glamour bombs on them. Well, now they are crying in the forums about it, because they can’t gank and destroy everyone anymore. Clearly a L2P issue.