So, a few days ago I was finishing off a player and I had a decent amount of HP left. I then suddenly get downed instantly and when I read the combat log I see “You’ve been hit by smoke bomb for 6k damage.” I was confused as hell and never really found out what happened.
My buddy last night was fighting two mesmers. He downs one of them and when he’s about to stomp him, he’s hit by “smoke bomb” for over 6k. He gets downed and loses.
Nope. I updated my original post. Apparently a mesmer can hit you for that much damage from the downed state using “Phantasmal Rogue” according to someone in that thread.
This is obviously a bug and needs to be fixed. There’s no way that a player should be dealing up to 8k in damage from the downed state.
Not sure why it’s called smoke bomb in your hit log tho … I run a mesmer.
It’s actually kind of hard to trigger, when you go down it’s timed out unless the enemy “forgets” about you and you have a chance to heal, it’s hard to even use it. Most times you’re dead before you even get a chance to click it.
Not sure why it’s called smoke bomb in your hit log tho … I run a mesmer.
Wording bug maybe?
I noticed something similar when I was in a party with a Mesmer yesterday that sometimes if you use a Sword/Torch and use the “4” ability the skill will at times word as “Hide in Shadows” on your stat line.
As for damage from the downed state? Eh I wouldn’t be so quick to say Over Powered it really depends on how glass the Mesmer is and how Tanky your armor is.
Nope. I updated my original post. Apparently a mesmer can hit you for that much damage from the downed state using “Phantasmal Rogue” according to someone in that thread.
This is obviously a bug and needs to be fixed. There’s no way that a player should be dealing up to 8k in damage from the downed state.
its not a bug, its basically a clone that uses backstab, if it spawns behind you, and crits, you’ll get hit for that much if not more depending on the mesmers spec.
The initial cooldown on a mesmers downed skill 3 aint short. You’re lucky to get it off. And unless you’re a zerker mes, you’re not going to be dealing that sort of damage.
As with any class, to go full glass cannon you’re giving up something. That a mes is down on the ground and has the ability to still dish damage to get back up is an intended part of their build. Working as intended.
The initial cooldown on a mesmers downed skill 3 aint short. You’re lucky to get it off. And unless you’re a zerker mes, you’re not going to be dealing that sort of damage.
As with any class, to go full glass cannon you’re giving up something. That a mes is down on the ground and has the ability to still dish damage to get back up is an intended part of their build. Working as intended.
yes it is totally comparable to the 500 to 1k i do while downed in full zerk.
totally balanced! just like the rest of the mesmer class.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
The initial cooldown on a mesmers downed skill 3 aint short. You’re lucky to get it off. And unless you’re a zerker mes, you’re not going to be dealing that sort of damage.
As with any class, to go full glass cannon you’re giving up something. That a mes is down on the ground and has the ability to still dish damage to get back up is an intended part of their build. Working as intended.
yes it is totally comparable to the 500 to 1k i do while downed in full zerk.
totally balanced! just like the rest of the mesmer class.
It’s comparable when you get very little opportunity to use it. Might as well not even have it as an option really because the moment you go down there’s like a full minute before you actually can use it …. And as I said above, most times you’re dead long before that option becomes available.
The enemy literally has to forget you’re dying there for you to proc it.
I’ve been hit for as high as 10k by this ability, not to mention them maintaining eight stacks of confusion with downed aa. Mesmer downed state is as dumb as everything else the class has.
It’s a symptom of a bigger problem, though. Downed state gives far too much hp. A downed tank is zero threat. A downed gc (of almost any class) hits you ridiculously hard yet takes 3x as long to kill as they did while up. Downed hp should scale based on your gear. If you are a gc, when you go down you should have very little hp. If you’re a tank, you should have lots of hp.
This is just one example of how the down state is not balanced, as there are many others. Downstate needs to be normalized for all classes. The will never be equally balanced until they are normalized anyways. IF it was up to me, I would take all skills from the downstate except the ability to heal yourself and everyone has equal HP and Toughness when downed. That’s never going to happen so at least normalize the skills and HP/toughness pool for all classes.
If you nerf it do I get something useful? Thief and necro both do more damage overall in downed state unless the mesmer is condition build and you’re swinging away with 4+ stacks of confusion. In that case though…. phantasmal rogue does trash damage. Apparently mesmers can be condition build and glass cannon power at the same time. OPD
Nope. I updated my original post. Apparently a mesmer can hit you for that much damage from the downed state using “Phantasmal Rogue” according to someone in that thread.
This is obviously a bug and needs to be fixed. There’s no way that a player should be dealing up to 8k in damage from the downed state.
Then make the phantasmal rogue one of our off hand weapons. (torch) and put the iMage in the downedstate to help stack the confusion… TBH it was prolly an even match to begin with if it took that much to get you down at when the mes was down and also it has a long charge up time.
This is just one example of how the down state is not balanced, as there are many others. Downstate needs to be normalized for all classes. The will never be equally balanced until they are normalized anyways. IF it was up to me, I would take all skills from the downstate except the ability to heal yourself and everyone has equal HP and Toughness when downed. That’s never going to happen so at least normalize the skills and HP/toughness pool for all classes.
How OP do you think mesmers feel when an ele stomps in mist form? Or when a thief stealths and there is no enemy to trigger the phantasmal rouge, or even the #2 downed skill to teleport away? Or any combination of “unstoppable” stomps available to practically every class in the game? We need to normalize all THOSE before we normalize downed state skills.
We should nerf all the classes until everyone has the same health and toughness and skills. Actually screw that, there should only be one class and one build because god forbid creative play, we want absolute balance.
It’s mesmer downed skill #3, which summons a illusionary rogue on you that deals a lot of damage. It’s a purple illusion that heartseekers you once. If you’re a glass cannon yes it will hit for 6k easily.
Engineer here, I really dont want to hear ANY complaining that your downed state is “too weak”. We all know that’s a load of crap. Imho that is way too much damage for a downed skill. I personally think the confusion stacks are too much for a downed skill as well. (This is coming from an engi with a rng #1, a 2s cast time pull, and then an explosion to knock people away on a long kitten cooldown.) I think everyone’s downed skills should be like the engi’s or the guardians as in fairly non-lethal.
I completely agree that if damage is based on stats then health and toughness need to be as well.
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I see downed mesmers use it fairly often whenever its GvG since (usually) only a lot of people can kill a mesmer fast. And you can’t argue against the point that it is a great downed state ability. But there are many abilities I think should be looked at before this one, it isn’t a big deal since it is only useful every now and then.
Engineer here, I really dont want to hear ANY complaining that your downed state is “too weak”. We all know that’s a load of crap. Imho that is way too much damage for a downed skill. I personally think the confusion stacks are too much for a downed skill as well. (This is coming from an engi with a rng #1, a 2s cast time pull, and then an explosion to knock people away on a long kitten cooldown.) I think everyone’s downed skills should be like the engi’s or the guardians as in fairly non-lethal.
I completely agree that if damage is based on stats then health and toughness need to be as well.
As a fellow engineer, I agree- I don’t want to hear a mesmer or any other classes justifications for having such good downed abilities when us engis are stuck with ours….
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Sooo funny fact… I had to deal with a downed Mesmer long enough to suffer this “smoke bomb” considering that this issue has come up. I looked at the combat log… I was hit for a whopping 2.4k… Sooooo you must have been either full GC or had vulnerability stacked up insanely high before the downed happened…
The real problem comes when you are fighting against a mesmer and another gc char (yeah, we are not supposed to win 2on1’s, so what? Not my fault that they play bad).
Once the mesmer got downed there practically nothing you can do. Can’t finish the mesmer as the other gc will kill you instantly and can’t fight the other opponent as you will have loads of confusion on you all the time.
That’s strange that it’s showing up as Smoke Bomb. I don’t run a very glassy build, so I think the most I’ve ever managed to crit someone with Phantasmal Rogue was for 3K (less if they’re tanky). 6K makes me think you were fighting a very glassy Mesmer, and you yourself were also a wee bit glassy perhaps. It’s supposed to do double damage from behind, so if timed correctly, it’s great for downing an opponent who is going in for the stomp, if they’re low on health. It hardy ever allows me to actually kill my opponent though because my downed health is so much lower than theirs when they go into a downed state.
It’s a decent downed skill, but I much prefer my Engi Booby Trap for awesome-sauce AoE knockback. If only my Engi had as good a downed survivability as my Mesmer then I’d be happy as larry :-D
The rogue does hit hard if it gets you from behind (not sure if it is 6k though) … most of the time I am dead before I can use it though. So between it having to hit you from behind and it being our longest downed skill that we have to wait to use I cannot see it being much of an issue.
That smoke bomb is definitely from a mesmer, not from an engineer.
Some professions e.g. mesmer, thief and elementalist have overpowered downed state, ability to case huge damage, confusion, teleport, enter vapor form, which should be fixed/nerfed asap. While some professions like the engineer have a bad joke (grappling line, downed skill #2) for a downed state. No wonder why engineer is the rarest profession in the game. I was today killing several enemy engineers and I can tell you that stomping them at downed state is the easiest thing in the game.
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Before calling to nerf it – bear in mind it’s very easy to avoid the damage thus negating potency of the skill – you easily have enough time to see it pop up behind you and dodge roll the damage.
But with that said, if you’re in a downed state vs a downed mesmer, you’re pretty screwed to be honest.
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- A crummy Mesmer on Piken Square
Since everyone seems to be overlooking it, and just yelling NERF THE MESMER like a mob with torches and pitchforks, let me remind you this: it takes a LONG time for the mesmer be able to use it. If you down a mesmer, you can just spike him. If he teleports spike him. The confusion doesn’t affect your spike. Even if the mesmer teleports, if you immediately spike him, he won’t even have a chance to use the illusionary rogue. Our downstate is one where we have no knockbacks, etc. Once again, the strength of the mesmer class is playing against people who just try to spam auto attacks, etc at us to kill us. The confusion a mesmer gives you does NOTHING, let me repeat in a megaphone: “NOTHING” if you just spike him. If hurts you only if you stand there auto attacking him down instead of finishing him. The teleport is fairly useless in a non-ZvZ setting, since most of the time it ports you into an AoE. So, the only time this skill comes in play, or our confusion comes in play, is if you see a downed mesmer and go “I won’t finish him, I’ll just auto attack him down”.
All of the mesmer down states are so easy to avoid by just running up and spiking him. We can’t do much damage initially, and before rogue is able to even be used you have time for over 3 spikes worth. You have to basically down us and forget we’re there, and stand perfectly still. So, no reason to nerf…just hit 1 key. Just 1 key. You’re finish key. That simple folks.
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My 2.7k armor engi got killed too by a smoke bomb dealing 6.7k damage…
And yes, they should nerf the mesmer/ele downed state. Mesmer deals way to much damage when downed and and ele’s mist form shouldn’t be able to go through gates. And WTF it has no cooldown…?? Really?
Warrior and engi have the weakest downed state, a warrior has a hammer that misses 80% of the time and rocks… His vegeance takes 6s before you can use it. It could as well not be there, because you barely get time to use it + it takes away the rally when an enemy goes down unless you trait into it.
Engineer has a grapple hook, which bugs out often too. And I think in all the time I have had my engineer I used the aoe knockback like 8 times? So that skill could as well just not be there.
ps.: long cd? I was fighting 2 players with my Engi, I downed the mesmer and before I could make the thief back off to spike the mesmer I got downed by a 6.7k smoke bomb…
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Let me just reiterate this point for a final time: a mesmer deals effectively NO damage in downed state if you just spike him. IF you’re ikittenvZ, then the rogue is extremely easy to avoid. It visibily spawns behind you, and you can dodge. Our downed state can be more accurately described as “annoying”, but so can many others.
TC Golden Dolyak – [DOLY]
Mesmer – FURY
Rank 55 – Bunker Engi, Top 300
It could possibly be this skill. Alternatively I play Mesmer and personally i use Runes of the Citadel. Citadel 6)5% chance on hit to drop a bomb. Maybe thats it? Bombs also scale to level so it could be that they are using a similar setup and you just miss the bomb being dropped.
I think the Mesmer Smoke Bomb was a Phantasmal Rogue – it’s a Mesmer downed skill, with a long ‘cool-up’ time, after you’re downed. You can’t use it for like six seconds after you’re downed, so you rarely see them.
“Summon a phantasmal rogue that deals double damage from behind. " -tooltip
Some of the various Phantasm types that a Mesmer can spawn are modeled on other Professions – that one is a Thief, so it does Thief attacks.
For instance I think the Phantasmal Berserker (modeled on a Warrior) attack shows up as " Whirlwind Attack", which is the warrior spinning-charge-ey thing.
My 2.7k armor engi got killed too by a smoke bomb dealing 6.7k damage…
And yes, they should nerf the mesmer/ele downed state. Mesmer deals way to much damage when downed and and ele’s mist form shouldn’t be able to go through gates. And WTF it has no cooldown…?? Really?
Warrior and engi have the weakest downed state, a warrior has a hammer that misses 80% of the time and rocks… His vegeance takes 6s before you can use it. It could as well not be there, because you barely get time to use it + it takes away the rally when an enemy goes down unless you trait into it.
Engineer has a grapple hook, which bugs out often too. And I think in all the time I have had my engineer I used the aoe knockback like 8 times? So that skill could as well just not be there.
ps.: long cd? I was fighting 2 players with my Engi, I downed the mesmer and before I could make the thief back off to spike the mesmer I got downed by a 6.7k smoke bomb…
Every class has the same initial cool down on their #3 downed skill. If you think vengeance “could as well not be there, because you barely get time to use it”, then that applies to mesmer phantasm rogue too. And vengeance most assuredly does more damage. If that mesmer you were fighting was a warrior, he could have vengeanced during the same time.
Why would you try stomp someone if you don’t have an invuln stomp handy, while he has a partner around in the first place? Downed does NOT equal dead and out of the game, and if you simply just DPS’d the mesmer down from a range and kept moving, the rogue wouldn’t have been able to hit you. If his partner tries to revive him, that’s a free kill for you.
This is just one example of how the down state is not balanced, as there are many others. Downstate needs to be normalized for all classes. The will never be equally balanced until they are normalized anyways. IF it was up to me, I would take all skills from the downstate except the ability to heal yourself and everyone has equal HP and Toughness when downed. That’s never going to happen so at least normalize the skills and HP/toughness pool for all classes.
For the love of god Don’t normalize everything. That is what they did in WoW pvp when everyone cryed. I like the professions being different. If you like what a profession does play it. If you don’t like playing it then don’t QQ.
Some things might need balancing and adjusting but normalizing anything is not the way to do it. That is throwing in the white flag and saying we cant do it.
Alternatively replace #1 with a small ally targetable heal, #2 with guardian push back, #3 with a small duration group buff, and #4 as is.
Didn’t they say they were going to remove downed state a long time ago? I kept saying, must be next patch, but its never come.
Downstate and rally are something I kept expecting changes to because its obviously stupid and fundamentally unbalanced. I’m starting to think a net wants it that way
It is ridiculously hard to get off Phantasmal Rogue when in the downed state unless the enemy is not paying any attention to you. And even if it does, it’s going to hurt for jack unless you’re fighting a full zerkers Mesmer. (and only then if they are lucky)
And the idea that Mesmers can keep up 8 stacks of confusion is ridiculously hilarious. Each skill 1 attack applies a short stack of confusion, if you’re seriously getting 8 maintained stacks you’re literally standing in front of a Mesmer watching it apply stacks to you. By the time you could even get 8 stacks (with cond duration), the Mes could have gotten up with 4. Not to mention that if you go ranged at all, the Mes can’t hit you.
These OP arguments are silly. If anything the only skill I ever get off is 2, and it’s stupidly predictable to kill a Mes using that skill, just kill the one with the red arrow above its head, and its the second one to spawn when they start to reveal themselves after stealthing.
and put the iMage in the downedstate to help stack the confusion… TBH it was prolly an even match to begin with if it took that much to get you down at when the mes was down and also it has a long charge up time.