Guild Wars 2

Blind doesn’t prevent stomping. I’ve been blind multiple times before and always got my stomp (secured by focus #5 or F3 as SYG! would have cleansed the blind).

Also, blind counters guardian downed #2. Did it every time while i specced in radiance for blind on F1.

As mentioned it absolutely guarantees avoiding a stamp unless you hit it too early and lose stealth before the stomp lands. A lot of mesmers do this btw.

Oddly enough, I don’t find too much issue with the engineer down-state, but I guess it’s just my build that makes it viable.

Nothing beats dropping an elixir at my feet just before I go down for a self rez

Unless someone starts their stomp immediately, and my pull misses (or multiple people stomping immediately) I can usually get myself up really quickly. It’s hilarious when I consider what baddies must be thinking when I do that.

Oh, and the AoE blast on cliff ledges in WvW is pants-wettingly funny.

But yeah, there is some imbalance with downed states. Bad mesmers will mis-time their #2. Bad stompers will stomp the clone/ dps with confusion stacks. Good mesmers will time the #2 to interrupt the stomp. Good stompers will immediately stomp to force the #2, cancel stomp, and wait for the red triangle to stomp again, all before the illusionary rogue can pop.

Annoying, yes. Game breaking? Nope. Balance needed? Maybe. But I don’t think a forum post of angry QQ and self-biased defending will do anything to further the argument in A.nets mind.

@Squibbles

Yeah if you use Elixir R for sure you shouldn’t have issue with our downed state.

You could only have our number 2 and still resurect.

But this is an utility you are using, it has nothing to do with downed state itself.

I personnaly think the difference between top downed class and worse downed class is too large.

Yesterday I felt the funny side of downed state for the first time with my mesmer. I was on the JP and one thief tried to kill me. He almost did and I jumped into the water. We all know how bad are thiefs in the water fight. Anyway, he jumped after me and I was in downed state. He was about his half Hp and I started to nuke him from with my donws skills and ….. he went into downed state too and……died
Honestly I couldn’t believe this. To be the story completed – one low lvl ranger tried to ress him and when he saw that Im going to kill him too, he just alt+F4

Well actually thief are really strong underwater. Maybe he didnt use his number 5 perma evade.

But underwater downed is different, and the whole alive/downed state skills is unbalanced there. Try to finish a ranger that used his pet rez under water. Impossible.

It’s pretty funny reading through this thread and what I’m mainly seeing is baddies pressing the stomp button, sitting there and watching it fill up, then whine that it didn’t kill someone.

Protip: You can actually cancel your stomp channeling by pressing esc.

I main a thief, and their downed skills, while strong and annoying, hardly ever allow a rally unless fighting a baddy who doesn’t know how to swivel their camera around to check their surrounds. Thief downed skill number 2 is a tele with a max of 600 range, meaning they won’t move any further than a typical short ranged attack. You just have to be patient for a few seconds.

@Croth

You might want to read it again.

We know it only a 2-3 second different. People also know how to cancel stomp.

Still, having 2-3 class with guaranted interrupt, making them survive 3 more second, is a big difference in a team fight.

When I downed a Warrior, Necro, engineer, some ranger → “Nice easy stomp”

When I downed Mesmer, Elem, Thief → “Oh Well, no safe stomp.”

And don’ tell me you don’t think that. Except you are a thief, so most stomp are safe stomp since you can stealth/blink stomp.

And calling people “baddies” while over looking the entire thread, won’t make your argument any better.

I think we can keep this discution civil, without calling names and all.

Kardiamond.6952:

What the “mesmer defenders” (jportel is there, surprising) are failing

---

Don’t worry mesmer defenders, I’m not all bad.

Personally, I don’t think phantasmal rogue is too strong. It’s a really really strong number three. I agree. But all numbers 3 are strong. Even Elem DD which have one of the worse number 3 (tho they have the best number 2) in grasping earth, does a good amount of damage. With the 3 sec bleed, does as much damage as rogue. I can hit for 3-4k with my number three on my engineer, and knock back people.

Now the issue isn’t number 3 of mesmer, it’s the whole package. They have a premium number 1, a premium number 2, and a premium number 3. All their downed are good. And they also have clone to support them.

If you compare it to engineer or warrior, you see the unbalance.

- nr1 is only helpful if u have a confusion build(nowhere near as strong as a thiefs nr1)
-nr2 portals u either nowhere or right in the middle of a zerg where u get insta killed, it is pure luck to actually get ported AWAY from an enemy
-i barely EVER get to nr 3

yes, the warriors downstate is pretty frustrating if they don’t get to nr3, but their nr 3 is pretty epic though

engineer i can’t say much as i havent played the class yet

So, what do u guys want?Nerf the mesmer again and again until there is nothing left, right?

So some people get hit by 6k to 8k…erm by a mesmer who has a high dmg,crit build and now u want to nerf ALL of it, because that build is sooo strong… so there is backstab 10k 13k killshots…….let’s face it, every class has something that with the right build causes great dmg or frustration. Maybe we should remove all mesmer traits and have the fight with cotton balls from now on, so noone can get any dmg above 1k through a mesmer anymore.

@Selan

Where did I said something about nerfing Mesmer to the ground? No where did I talk about mesmer abilities when they aren’t downed.

But about downed state, I really think they should be balanced, all of them, not just mesmer.

I know peope don’t like the word nerf, so I would go for : “buff the other class that are lacking”. It’s more work, and achieve the same thing as nerfing, but player “take it better”. Make weak downed state better. Like if Engineer pull could only be countered by blind or invul, necor fear only by stability ect..

My personal opinion would be to make everyone at engineer level. I don’t really like the downed state concept my self, especially in group fight where you can instant rez someone. So I would make it the least annoying possible.

Balance everyone downed around engineer : low damage, un-reliable interrupt, good number 3.

I think it would be fair to everyone.

wads.5730:

using #2 as mesmer GUARANTEES a stomp interrupt, no matter where you randomly teleport to. this is a fact.

if you still get finished, then it means you are doing it wrong, you are either attacking after you stealth, which unstealths you, or you are using the skill too early.

if you use #2 AFTER the person starts the stomp animation, then you will NEVER unstealth before the animation finishes.

Lol “this is a fact”, unless you do it too early or too late … in which case it ignores stealth. So fine, you corrected the specifics, but the point is the same; unless you hit it at the sweet spot, you’re still dead.

Downed Skill #2 is still just a minor annoyance that maybe sometimes pays off if you’re lucky. I still haven’t read a single valid argument for it being overpowered.

And since this thread started about the iRogue and no one is even discussing that anymore it seems then it’s pretty obvious that it isn’t over powered either.

“You don’t need to see his identification, move along”

@Harbringer

Depend how you take it.

Is it game breaker? Not at all.

Is it annoying? Yes.

Is it unbalance? I personnaly think downed state are unbalanced overall.

I explained why before, and while it’s nothing game breaking, if you add a strong downed state to an already strong class, it’s not fair for weaker class(Warrior) that have a bad downed state (they don’t have the worse, vengeance is areally good, but their number 2 is pretty bad).

Kardiamond.6952:

@Harbringer
I explained why before, and while it’s nothing game breaking, if you add a strong downed state to an already strong class, it’s not fair for weaker class(Warrior) that have a bad downed state (they don’t have the worse, vengeance is areally good, but their number 2 is pretty bad).

Lol @ warriors being a weaker class. Just because they don’t excel in WvW in the same ways like they do in sPvP and PvE doesn’t mean they are weaker. Sorry, as a player that has an 80 Warrior in exotic/ascended gear, I have zero sympathy for Warrior complaints when compared to the faults and imbalances of other classes. This is besides the topic, and I agree with Harbinger, end this thread, it’s a waste of time and going nowhere.

It would be ideal if we could end the QQ-this skill is overpowered-QQ threads altogether, but it seems a new one crops up every week and goes in the same direction, nowhere.

@Pulse

Warrior don’t excel in sPvP. They are prolly the weakest class right now.

I don’t even main a Warrior, I play one from time to time. But I feel for this class. Sure you can still be a good player with a Warrior, especially in WvW where pvp skill level can sometime be really low.

And by saying the weakest, they are still viable. They are still an efficient class. It would be cool if they could get more viable built.

And pulse, why do you read them if you don’t like them? It wasn’t even a “nerf” post, we juste turned it into a balance discusion. I don’t see anyone whinning, I see a good discution going on. Why should we stop it?

So saying Warrior don’t excel in sPvP right now, is whinning?

I don’t think we will agree on anything then!

Have a good day!

Kardiamond.6952:

So saying Warrior don’t excel in sPvP right now, is whinning?

I don’t think we will agree on anything then!

Have a good day!

I’m not sure, but I think he’s just saying you’re wrong about warriors not excelling in sPvP.

Tried to edit, and failed because I wasn’t paying attention (deleted instead). But yes, I laugh at the idea that warriors do not excel in sPvP, and that you don’t see whining in this thread. It illustrates that there is some kind of language/communication barrier and that is just leading us in circles.

I don’t “whine” about warrior, I think it would make it funnier if they were balanced around. By your definition, any suggestion would be a “whine”.

And about warrior in sPvP, it doesn’t applicate directly to WvW, but it still linked :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/first

Nothing official, because we won’t ever get an official answer, but that’s the best poll we have available.

Lol, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

“It illustrates that there is some kind of language/communication barrier and that is just leading us in circles.”

I didn’t say you were whining about warriors. I’m saying Warriors excel in sPvP despite what some whiny thread with anecdotal evidence says. And there is plenty of whining going on in this thread. That’s it, that is all.

I don’t have time to explain myself over and over again, so with that clarification, I am done now, leaving you to run in circles with someone else because of the comprehension barrier.

So be it, ayway it was out of subject.

For those doubting that Mind Blast can hit really hard.

Here is an example of a hit from a GC Mesmer on a nearly full GC Engineer. Keep in mind this is prolly the highest damage it can achieve on a medium armored player without vuln.

P.S : I’m not pushing for a nerf, I’m only answering to people that said mind blast didn’t hit hard if you were not condition build. This is from a power mesmer.

Kardiamond.6952:

For those doubting that Mind Blast can hit really hard.

Here is an example of a hit from a GC Mesmer on a nearly full GC Engineer. Keep in mind this is prolly the highest damage it can achieve on a medium armored player without vuln.

P.S : I’m not pushing for a nerf, I’m only answering to people that said mind blast didn’t hit hard if you were not condition build. This is from a power mesmer.

Try to keep in mind also that it has a much slower rate of attack than some other profession’s Downed #1 skill. Thieves or Warriors attack like twice as fast while they’re downed. It’s one of the first things I always notice when I’m playing my alts, I always find myself wishing I could attack that fast as a Mesmer while Downed.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Croth

You might want to read it again.

We know it only a 2-3 second different. People also know how to cancel stomp.

Still, having 2-3 class with guaranted interrupt, making them survive 3 more second, is a big difference in a team fight.

When I downed a Warrior, Necro, engineer, some ranger -> “Nice easy stomp”

When I downed Mesmer, Elem, Thief -> “Oh Well, no safe stomp.”

And don’ tell me you don’t think that. Except you are a thief, so most stomp are safe stomp since you can stealth/blink stomp.

And calling people “baddies” while over looking the entire thread, won’t make your argument any better.

I think we can keep this discution civil, without calling names and all.

So in a team fight, do you concentrate on taking the first downed guy out or do you keep attacking him/her while downed so you can simultaneously support teammates?

Stomping someone is instantly killing them from downed state, rather than doing the 20k+ damage normally, hence the trade off is a long-ish cash time, leaving you vulnerable.

Some classes can mitigate the vulnerability by using their class skills. This is a unique aspect of the game which I think has a positive effect on the game by making it interesting rather than having everyone only having skill 4 so it basically comes down to if you’re down, you are prolonging your death, OR if you are both downed, who presses heal first.

Mesmers, thieves and eles have more of an advantage while downed because they are generally squishier when alive? <My opinion

Rangers, I feel bad for because their downed skills are kind of kitten unless you get the underwater pet res.

I don’t have any experience with engy downed skills but from what i’ve read, is there a possible combo in conditioning your attacker and then use pull as they nearly finish their casting animation, pulling them to you, then launch straight away, continuing to condition after? It seems almost a viable combo as thief #3 then #1 to throw a poisoned dagger with a bit more damage.

@Croth

Mesmer, thief and Eles squishy? They have the best escape/dodge mecanism in the game.

HP/armor isn’t making much a difference. For me, a warrior or a necromancer will be a lot easier to burst down then a thief/mesmer/Elem (well maybe not thief, I build just for them :P). Why? Because they have few damage mitigation. Necromancer just soak damage up, so they die really fast. Sam with warrior, no protection sources or escape mecanism.

Mesmers, thiefs and eles being squishy is a poor excuse for them having a better downed state. They already have defense mecanism/stealth/boons/damage to make up for it.

Ranger isn’t that bad, they don’t have it easy, but at least they can still use their pet when downed. It can add one more stun while downed. But yeah, if you discount the pet, they have it bad.

I would suggest you try engineer in sPvP for a fast trial. Tell me after how your pull/explotion works

The issue is to pull the combo, you have to wait fr number to be ready. And that mean the enemy isn’t focusing on you.

The issue here is when the enemy isn’t kitten and they focus on you right away. You won’t pull a combo as you have to use a weak pull to try to cancel the stomp.

Been roaming for 2-3 days in a row for at least 2 hours, and didn’t use my number 3 yet.

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

You’re missing the point! Downed states are imbalanced, and they all need to be looked at- it’s silly that some classes have better downed abilities than others.

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

You’re missing the point! Downed states are imbalanced, and they all need to be looked at- it’s silly that some classes have better downed abilities than others.

The point I got was that you’re sad you couldn’t 2v1 some mesmers.

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

You’re missing the point! Downed states are imbalanced, and they all need to be looked at- it’s silly that some classes have better downed abilities than others.

The point I got was that you’re sad you couldn’t 2v1 some mesmers.

As an example- If I , an engi went down in that same fight- I probally would have died, but they, as memers didn’t die (because their downed state is better than mine.)
Now I know engis are weak, and have the worst downed state in the game, but that ticked me off of how silly the whole downed state mechanic is- it needs balancing.

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

You’re missing the point! Downed states are imbalanced, and they all need to be looked at- it’s silly that some classes have better downed abilities than others.

The point I got was that you’re sad you couldn’t 2v1 some mesmers.

As an example- If I , an engi went down in that same fight- I probally would have died, but they, as memers didn’t die (because their downed state is better than mine.)
Now I know engis are weak, and have the worst downed state in the game, but that ticked me off of how silly the whole downed state mechanic is- it needs balancing.

So why do you believe that Mesmer’s Downed state should be nerfed instead of Engi’s Downed State being buffed?

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

EnRohbi.2187:

Digikid.7230:

I just fought 2 mesmers- it didn’t matter how often I downed them, as they would just use the confusion from their 1 ( I can’t attack them without losing a lot of health) or avoid a stomp (Can’t even invuln stomp them as it teles them away from me)
If that was an engi I’d had downed- he would be dead for sure….. but you know, downed states are perfectly balanced…..

Get them to tell me this secret to how Mesmers never die

You’re missing the point! Downed states are imbalanced, and they all need to be looked at- it’s silly that some classes have better downed abilities than others.

The point I got was that you’re sad you couldn’t 2v1 some mesmers.

As an example- If I , an engi went down in that same fight- I probally would have died, but they, as memers didn’t die (because their downed state is better than mine.)
Now I know engis are weak, and have the worst downed state in the game, but that ticked me off of how silly the whole downed state mechanic is- it needs balancing.

So why do you believe that Mesmer’s Downed state should be nerfed instead of Engi’s Downed State being buffed?

I believe the whole downed state mechanic needs a revamp.