Guild Wars 2

No seriously… the complaints about the class are somewhat justified, I realize that. But even with stealth being as powerful as it is, the Thief class still doesn’t outshine Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in small group roaming. But if we were to pretend the Thief was somehow over the top at roaming, the very clear issue is with initiative regen.

Now with all that out of the way, this is the WvW forum… and the current name of the game in WvW is zerging. Isn’t always large 50+ battles on each side, but even just 15+ would be considered zerging. But in this area, despite the Thief’s strength (and in my opinion it’s overstated) at roaming, it is the undisputed worst class for everything that is WvW currently.

With the recent diary on the main page implying classes will be getting new skills, is it safe to assume the class will gain some real group value in the future? Am I missing something about the class? That it fits some niche that is actually fun and valuable to the WvW meta? I mean sure they can kill dolyaks and take camps, but so can every class. Sure they can trigger swords. But these aren’t real tasks or roles… they’re chores.

Is the supposed strength in roaming ANet’s excuse for Thief class offering nothing in any other aspect of this game? I’m concerned that with every post on this forum being nothing about random complaints about stealth and shadow fields the reality of the situation with the class is being ignored or missed.

Will anything change?

People complain about thieves because.

they get sick of being a zerg zombie, they move out solo, for abit of real 1 on 1 2 on 1 pvp.

one of the following happens.

They explode. a back stab thief has killed them within afew hits.

They evade the thief in time, or have enough defence to out last it, the thief vanishes, and stays stealthed until their cooldowns are back, then attacks again and wins due to them not having cooldowns up.

They get perma trolled by a thief they cannot attack due to chain stealthing, cannot chase due to insane mobility and die to because they just cant be arsed to put up with it for hours.

Get instantly killed by a thief duo that are abusing perma stealth self combo.

half of the victims come to the forums to vent their rage.

Direwind.8409:

People complain about thieves because.

they get sick of being a zerg zombie, they move out solo, for abit of real 1 on 1 2 on 1 pvp.

one of the following happens.

They explode. a back stab thief has killed them within afew hits.

They evade the thief in time, or have enough defence to out last it, the thief vanishes, and stays stealthed until their cooldowns are back, then attacks again and wins due to them not having cooldowns up.

They get perma trolled by a thief they cannot attack due to chain stealthing, cannot chase due to insane mobility and die to because they just cant be arsed to put up with it for hours.

Get instantly killed by a thief duo that are abusing perma stealth self combo.

half of the victims come to the forums to vent their rage.

Cant attack due to chain stealthing? Really? Every method of gaining stealth gives away your position, CnD is a melee attack, blackpowder makes a bright red ring on the ground full of smoke, refuge is a red circle with a giant house, even blinding powder has particle effects. If you cant zero in on someone giving away their position every few seconds, its l2p

Shemsu.8721:

Cant attack due to chain stealthing? Really? Every method of gaining stealth gives away your position, CnD is a melee attack, blackpowder makes a bright red ring on the ground full of smoke, refuge is a red circle with a giant house, even blinding powder has particle effects. If you cant zero in on someone giving away their position every few seconds, its l2p

Sometimes I really wonder if thief players are that dumb or they’re just trolling. Is the thief going to hang around the spot where he stealthed? If thieves are rooted for .5 seconds after activating stealth, then you can talk about thieves giving away their position when they stealth.

As for the OP, I would like to see thieves being more balanced for group fights and have less emphasis on stealth+burst, but judging from the responses of many thief players I highly doubt they actually want that.

aelflune.8590:

As for the OP, I would like to see thieves being more balanced for group fights and have less emphasis on stealth+burst, but judging from the responses of many thief players I highly doubt they actually want that.

That is because the class attracts the mentalities of trolls and pocketsand fighters. They have no sense of what is actually balanced because they only care about being able to one shot people from the shadows while also being able to easily slip away from 50+ people using 2 skills.

They will come to defend the unbalanced nature of stealth until the game dies. I highly doubt Anet ever does anything to address the issue of stealth (4 second of reveal is useless if it is only when they attack and not whenever stealth ends. Way to continuously let Thieves control 1v1 battle flow).

Edit: Forgot in the grand wisdom of Anet they reverted the 4 second reveal change back to 3 second for WvW (yet not for sPvP where you can’t stack stats).

The more you guys complain about thieves being OP the more people will make thieves and more chances you face thieves…. also if you’re still complaining about this L2P

Vanthian.9267:

aelflune.8590:

As for the OP, I would like to see thieves being more balanced for group fights and have less emphasis on stealth+burst, but judging from the responses of many thief players I highly doubt they actually want that.

That is because the class attracts the mentalities of trolls and pocketsand fighters. They have no sense of what is actually balanced because they only care about being able to one shot people from the shadows while also being able to easily slip away from 50+ people using 2 skills.

They will come to defend the unbalanced nature of stealth until the game dies. I highly doubt Anet ever does anything to address the issue of stealth (4 second of reveal is useless if it is only when they attack and not whenever stealth ends. Way to continuously let Thieves control 1v1 battle flow).

Edit: Forgot in the grand wisdom of Anet they reverted the 4 second reveal change back to 3 second for WvW (yet not for sPvP where you can’t stack stats).

Pretty much nailed it. Anet really confuses me on this issue. Daoc had the same issues with stealth in the beginning but they fixed it. Anet has done a great job with the game, but seems to have a bit of a blind spot for their version of stealth.

I’ve fought a couple of really good thieves from ET lately and although I absolutely despise thieves and their constant stealthing, it certainly does not mean they are worthless in group battles. Some of these ET thieves rely less on stealth and more on condition damage (dat pistol…) and use stealth only as an evade but still remain in the fight rather than running away to a safe reset distance. If not for well of power, I’d be a dead man hundred times over without hear the awful, yet very familiar, sounds of #2#2#2#2

aelflune.8590:

Sometimes I really wonder if thief players are that dumb or they’re just trolling.

They’re really that dumb.

Yep, I have trouble with thieves in WvW. Appearing from out of nowhere with backstab, and if I’m not dead by the second hit, they’re stealthed again, and you’ve no idea where to find them. By the time you’ve targeted them, you’re either dead or they’ve gone. Pretty much just handing badges to them and coin to the repairer. I give up on thieves and just let them kill me; it’s quicker and less grief. I’m not fast enough to counter, and mostly dead almost as soon as I see them. For sure, my latency is high (350ms), coupled with reaction time, and there’s plenty of scope for being dead before you blink.

Like a lot of people, I’m no Pro player, I play for simple enjoyment as and when family time allows. I don’t seem to have any real grief against any other classes, but meet a thief, and it’s an instant repair and run back. Pretty much, it’s the only shadow on what is otherwise a really enjoyable bout of WvW.

Thief is BY FAR the #1 solo roamer, mainly because of their ability to escape from almost any situation. They are still very useful in small group (less than 5) roaming as well. Shadow Refuge alone makes them a viable choice.
It takes lots of knowledge to beat a stealth spam thief (and even then it is impossible for most builds to actually down him) while it’s very easy for the thief to keep stealthing: the “pvp with training wheels” -build even comes with a build-in blind to prevent interrupts.

Atherakhia.4086:

is it safe to assume the class will gain some real group value in the future?

You’re a bad player and that is okay – it’s the default state of any player.
But don’t pretend to have knowledge where you don’t, which you just proved.

The outcome of a 1v1 battle if one of the participants is a thief:
1. Thief wins.
2. Thief escapes.
There is no third option. The mythical “thief dies” outcome is only taken by bad thieves.
Inb4 tons of thieves with comments like “i am pro 1v1 roamer n i die a lot, l2p”. These comments would be sad if they weren’t so hilarious.

The Boz.2038:

The outcome of a 1v1 battle if one of the participants is a thief:
1. Thief wins.
2. Thief escapes.
There is no third option. The mythical “thief dies” outcome is only taken by bad thieves.
Inb4 tons of thieves with comments like “i am pro 1v1 roamer n i die a lot, l2p”. These comments would be sad if they weren’t so hilarious.

You forgot a 3rd outcome.

3. Thief trolls.

Harass a group of people and perma stealth over and over with no intentions of ever trying to kill someone …just troll.

Forzani.2584:

The Boz.2038:

The outcome of a 1v1 battle if one of the participants is a thief:
1. Thief wins.
2. Thief escapes.
There is no third option. The mythical “thief dies” outcome is only taken by bad thieves.
Inb4 tons of thieves with comments like “i am pro 1v1 roamer n i die a lot, l2p”. These comments would be sad if they weren’t so hilarious.

You forgot a 3rd outcome.

3. Thief trolls.

Harass a group of people and perma stealth over and over with no intentions of ever trying to kill someone …just troll.

Permanent stealth over and over ?

Permanent- (comparative more permanent, superlative most permanent)
1)Without end, eternal.(Nothing in this world is truly permanent.)
2)Lasting for an indefinitely long time.(Heavy drinking can cause permanent damage to the brain.)

Want to see permanent stealth ??? Go play other 95% MMO Ultima Online,WoW,AoC,Swtor etc

Jamais vu.5284:

Atherakhia.4086:

is it safe to assume the class will gain some real group value in the future?

You’re a bad player and that is okay – it’s the default state of any player.
But don’t pretend to have knowledge where you don’t, which you just proved.

The bottom 3 classes for group play are in this order..

Thief: Because they bring blast finishers and nothing more.
Rangers: Because they bring water fields and nothing more.
Engineers: Because they bring more blast and actual utility but aren’t a great class.

Now if you don’t agree with this ranking for the 3 least useful players to the current WvW meta, then you’re the baddie and you should try to defend your argument with something because the majority of people list these 3 classes as bottom rung for zergs and large group combat.

As I said in my OP, it’s nice to pretend killing Dolyaks and triggering swords to distract is a fun and rewarding aspect of WvW, but it isn’t. No one wants their class’ sole role in WvW to be a cow killer and to shoot a gate from 900 yards.

Now if you want to go to the extreme and pretend Thieves are awesome because they can solo camps, which of the other 4 classes I mentioned in my OP can’t? Because I’ve had no problem with any of them.

I’m sorry, but the WvW value of a Thief is limited to their blast finishers and that’s it.

Now if you want more fodder, here’s my complete list of class value for the current WvW meta

Guardian
Mesmer
Elementalist
Warrior*
Necro*
Engineer
Ranger
Thief
*These classes are the only ones I’ve seen people disagree with and it’s because I don’t value Necros highly because they’re so easily shut down. Their utility is amazing, but I find Hammer Warriors more valuable with the blast finisher (auto attack 3, AE stun, etc.)

Thief is the worst class for WvW and PvE, need lots of buffs.

Those Pesky Perma Stealth Thieves can be annoying. The number one counter is anticipation. Think Like a Thief™

One way to prevent thieves from running away is to exploit their egos. Most thief players have some kind of Assassin’s creed fantasy and imagine themselves kitten. So if you want to keep them around, type “lol run” or /laugh. I’ve brought down lots of thieves who were initially running away only to get enraged by my taunting to come back and die.

Gotta use whatever tools we have eh?

First, thieves useless in wvw?

Is this some kind of joke?

Thief meet yak.

Dead yak.

Against a proper good thief, even 5 escorts may not be enough.

That said, as much as stealth is broken, thieves really are pigeonholed into stealth heavy builds kitten much of the class synergy is built around stealth, it’s more a blame the game not the player situation.

bhagwad.4281:

So if you want to keep them around, type “lol run”

You do you know enemies can’t read anything you say, right?

Rawr.5930:

First, thieves useless in wvw?

Is this some kind of joke?

Thief meet yak.

Dead yak.

Against a proper good thief, even 5 escorts may not be enough.

That said, as much as stealth is broken, thieves really are pigeonholed into stealth heavy builds kitten much of the class synergy is built around stealth, it’s more a blame the game not the player situation.

I don’t know if I’m biased because my other characters are an Ele and Ranger, but I’ve never had a problem killing yaks or taking camps solo. ever.

And even if you had a point, do you really expect people to be proud that they play a MMO with large scale warfare and sieging and all they do is kill cows all day and attack a gate on an unguarded keep? These are tasks you send the uplevels to do. This isn’t something you’d design a class’ sole role in groups to be.

Atherakhia.4086:

Rawr.5930:

First, thieves useless in wvw?

Is this some kind of joke?

Thief meet yak.

Dead yak.

Against a proper good thief, even 5 escorts may not be enough.

That said, as much as stealth is broken, thieves really are pigeonholed into stealth heavy builds kitten much of the class synergy is built around stealth, it’s more a blame the game not the player situation.

I don’t know if I’m biased because my other characters are an Ele and Ranger, but I’ve never had a problem killing yaks or taking camps solo. ever.

And even if you had a point, do you really expect people to be proud that they play a MMO with large scale warfare and sieging and all they do is kill cows all day and attack a gate on an unguarded keep? These are tasks you send the uplevels to do. This isn’t something you’d design a class’ sole role in groups to be.

A decent server isnt going to have unguarded yaks or camps……

Xirin.8593:

bhagwad.4281:

So if you want to keep them around, type “lol run”

You do you know enemies can’t read anything you say, right?

Well I’m more of an sPvP kind of guy

bhagwad.4281:

Xirin.8593:

bhagwad.4281:

So if you want to keep them around, type “lol run”

You do you know enemies can’t read anything you say, right?

Well I’m more of an sPvP kind of guy

Gotcha. In WvW, the only way to communicate with an enemy player is to join their party.

Cry more because it obviously works…. or you could L2P.

simple. just dont go to wvw . problem solved.

Simple. Just remove stealth and nerf thief damage.

Uses for thieves in WvW:

- Blast finishers = aoe swiftness, aoe might, aoe healing
- Dagger storm = cripple and moderate dmg (depending on build) to ~15 people
- Stealthing mesmers for portaling
- Best class for scouting – stealth, traited steal on critter + shadowstep = 2700 range instantly
- Easily gank enemy scouts
- High mobility + escape makes them ideal to contest keeps
- Obviously good for roaming – 2 thieves DS = instant camp

you know what would be fun?
stacking “revealed” when stacking “stealth”… for each stealth skill activated, revealed lasts 4 seconds longer…
Too long a chain, and you end up being unable to stealth for upwards of a minute.

so your only real option is to never break stealth, or use it sparingly

Junkpile.7439:

Simple. Just remove stealth and nerf thief damage.

Simple. Learn to play.

Op

I have to disagree with you entirely, especially with this statement “. But even with stealth being as powerful as it is, the Thief class still doesn’t outshine Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in small group roaming.”

It seem to me you don’t do wvw much, as already mentioned many times; thief is the 1 Superior class for roaming, mobility, finishers, tankers and survivalbity and not forgetting Invincibility with Perma-Stealth activated.

I got another reason why i disagree with you Op,
with 3,320 video results of thief soliong and roaming small and outnubered zerges; 8-30+ man zerg.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thief+wvw+zerg

I Hope that clarifies your mis-statements.

Burnfall.9573:

Op

I have to disagree with you entirely, especially with this statement “. But even with stealth being as powerful as it is, the Thief class still doesn’t outshine Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians, or Rangers in small group roaming.”

It seem to me you don’t do wvw much, as already mentioned many times; thief is the 1 Superior class for roaming, mobility, finishers, tankers and survivalbity and not forgetting Invincibility with Perma-Stealth activated.

I got another reason why i disagree with you Op,
with 3,320 video results of thief soliong and roaming small and outnubered zerges; 8-30+ man zerg.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thief+wvw+zerg

I Hope that clarifies your mis-statements.

I have one of each class mentioned. I do fine on each of them. Do you need me to go through the effort of linking WvW videos of each?

Than please compare the video results for each class mentioned for zerg group.

You will clearely see that Theives having the highest results.

lol you must not wvw much or play a thief cause those videos are from 7months ago when they were op cause of culling and higher dps.

I’ll do than..

Mesmers- 2,540 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Warior- 3, 050 resilts
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Nectomancer- 2,110 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=necromancer+wvw+zerg

Ranger— 1,910 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ranger+wvw+zerg&oq=ranger+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3..0j0i5.37515.39479.0.39753.8.7.0.1.1.0.140.687.4j3.7.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.D8JTXHNavx8

Engineer- 1, 670 results (not a Suprised at all.. sadly.. the loiwest at thej bottom)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=engineer+wvw+szerg

Elementalist- 2, 250 results
Elehttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elementist+wvw+zergmentalst- 2, 250 results

And to be The Superior Class that tops them all for zerges.. goes to Thief

Thief -3,330 result

So there..

this turned into another thief qq .. qq… qq thread lol yet no1 is addressing Elementalist burst AOE dps that will wipe any theives in stealth providing they are in the area.

Burnfall.9573:

I’ll do than..

Mesmers- 2,540 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Warior- 3, 050 resilts
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Nectomancer- 2,110 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=necromancer+wvw+zerg

Ranger— 1,910 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ranger+wvw+zerg&oq=ranger+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3..0j0i5.37515.39479.0.39753.8.7.0.1.1.0.140.687.4j3.7.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.D8JTXHNavx8

Engineer- 1, 670 results (not a Suprised at all.. sadly.. the loiwest at thej bottom)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=engineer+wvw+szerg

Elementalist- 2, 250 results
Elehttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elementist+wvw+zergmentalst- 2, 250 results

And to be The Superior Class that tops them all for zerges.. goes to Thief

Thief -3,330 result

So there..

Its probably because soo many people QQ soo much people think they are OP and play them and make videos out of em.

Thief-

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=thief+wvw+zerg&oq=thief+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3..0l2j0i5.2361.3707.0.4148.2.2.0.0.0.0.113.221.0j2.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.mzn2L8bLKiQ

Yet Stealth have been more than 7 month

You can’t ague that,

Op all I’m saying

No on should or can’t argue that with Thief Over Power Stealth Mechanic- Perma-Stealth..

Make them the best and only best Roaming class.

If you took Stealth away from thief, you wouldn’t see 3, 330 results

As you can see with Warrior having 3,050 results…

Now let’s say Arena net would give Warrior the Same Stealth as a Thief..

You would clearly see the results hitting very high numbers, even beyone thief
’s 3,330 ressults..

Hope you understand where i’m taking this.

Last and for all..

As I stated too many times.. Thief accourding to Arena net is the “PERFECT” class.. you can see why Perma- with Excell stats..

I hate to say this but will say it anyway and obviously..

Thief is thier Favorite class..

In when dealing with Favoritism; the Consequence is the “Ideaology that there is/are nothing wrong, no matter wha” with thief class.

As a Ranger class, argue against that Ideology.. but that’s the Price Thief class have to Pay for being the Favorite.

Favoritism.. leaves no room for “Support and fixes”

Burn did your read what you wrote god start a thief so you can understand how daft it is. I hate to be one of those guys but if you are having trouble with a thief right now when they are one of if not the weakest class in the game its because your bad. Videos of op thieves from when the game was broken has no barring on anything that goes on in the the virtual world we play in now. You compare a war with stealth and a thief… oh lord give me strength… you just have to play both classes so you can understand your ignorance of game mechanics sadly this will not help you with your fixation on you tube videos or pro wrestling.

I disagree that thieves are worthless in a zerg. Sure if they want to stay in a glass cannon build with berserker gear they will undoubtedly be more detriment than help. However, a Thief that builds for Shadow Arts and Acrobatics I a very worthy addition to a zerg purely for their ability to burst on command using cluster bomb.

In combat Stealth is a pain to deal with, but if ANet were to remove it (I don’t think they will) then the Thief would need a major overhaul defensively. Stealth is their primary form of defence, without it they would fall apart as they have a low base health, no protection/aegis, only two ways of getting stability (steal from mesmer/dagger storm), and lose a valuable condition removal.

If you want to be a part of a zerg, get Soldier (Pvt) gear, some cleric or magi trinkets (or soldier) build for shadow arts and acrobatics. Staying alive is paramount, then support your squad with clusterbombs and poison cloud/weakness blast combo

Jado Cast.1805:

Those Pesky Perma Stealth Thieves can be annoying. The number one counter is anticipation. Think Like a Thief™

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kpcayzfduw

Or if you’re bad, just bring 5 people to kill 1 thief.

Burnfall.9573:

I’ll do than..

Mesmers- 2,540 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Warior- 3, 050 resilts
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mesmers+wvw+zerg&oq=mesmers+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3...119279.120949.0.121179.9.9.0.0.0.0.156.583.4j2.6.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.r8VLcdunwME

Nectomancer- 2,110 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=necromancer+wvw+zerg

Ranger— 1,910 results
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ranger+wvw+zerg&oq=ranger+wvw+zerg&gs_l=youtube.3..0j0i5.37515.39479.0.39753.8.7.0.1.1.0.140.687.4j3.7.0...0.0...1ac..11.youtube.D8JTXHNavx8

Engineer- 1, 670 results (not a Suprised at all.. sadly.. the loiwest at thej bottom)
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=engineer+wvw+szerg

Elementalist- 2, 250 results
Elehttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elementist+wvw+zergmentalst- 2, 250 results

And to be The Superior Class that tops them all for zerges.. goes to Thief

Thief -3,330 result

So there..

This looks like an extremely flawed method when it comes to proving thief viability in zerg fights. The biggest reason that this simply doesn’t show what you seem to think it shows is the fact that typing “thief wvw zerg” into a youtube search will not only return videos that shows thieves fighting in zergs, but also thief solo roam, thief group roam, thief pve, other classes fighting thieves in wvw, other classes zerging, and an assortment of random, non GW2 related videos that have “thief” in the title. A more reasonable conclusion to “thief wvw zerg” having more results than other classes is that thieves are a popular class and more likely to record their WvW play.

It also falls apart when you actually start comparing the number of results to the actual WvW zerg meta. For example, if I search “guardian wvw zerg” I only get 2610 results, and yet I seriously doubt you’ll hear anyone say that a guardian isn’t as useful as a thief in zergs. If you look at zerg fight or GvG videos from top WvW guilds, they aren’t stacking thieves in either situation. How can a certain class be the best for zerging if, when they have a choice, no one seems to want more than one or two of them?

Jado Cast.1805:

Those Pesky Perma Stealth Thieves can be annoying. The number one counter is anticipation. Think Like a Thief™

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kpcayzfduw

Only reason you actually caught him was because he’s in an inclosed area. He did it wrong anyways. It’s actually possible to use shortbow to skip the first few jumps in the arena. He would have been at the top by the time his 10s of stealth ran of if he does it right.

Atherakhia.4086:

With the recent diary on the main page implying classes will be getting new skills, is it safe to assume the class will gain some real group value in the future? Am I missing something about the class? That it fits some niche that is actually fun and valuable to the WvW meta? I mean sure they can kill dolyaks and take camps, but so can every class. Sure they can trigger swords. But these aren’t real tasks or roles… they’re chores.

Is the supposed strength in roaming ANet’s excuse for Thief class offering nothing in any other aspect of this game? I’m concerned that with every post on this forum being nothing about random complaints about stealth and shadow fields the reality of the situation with the class is being ignored or missed.

Will anything change?

Stealth is what holds thieves back. If they weren’t balanced around a broken mechanic, Anet could buff them in other more interesting areas.

According to the devs when they first released class info, Thief was not supposed to be a stealth focused class. But since this game was supposed to attract the WoW audiences, I’m guessing Anet decided at the last minute they needed a stealther like every other mmo. I applaud them for their attempt to make it feel different though.

People hate thieves because they think that if they had not stealth they would beat them. The fact is that skilful thieves are skilful players who would kill average players in any situation.
Stalth is the butter and bread of the class take out it and class is dead.
Thieves are a waste of spots in any zerg as any dedicated guild knows (well, there is just one spot for a scout checking routes). The reason is that without group CC, without group boons or good heals, with reduced attack distance for short bows, they are almost useless. Yep, grenade arrows are fine, but they do not all the holes in the class for zerging.
In 1VS1 thieves are averaged, I belong to a 100 thieves guild and we know perfectly the performance in 1VS1 for balanced skilful players. Several Classes are better.
So being averaged in duels, bad option in pve dungeons or zergs…why are they hated?
Because they can escape. It burns people minds to have a thief at 5% and see them dissappear.
We are good in just one task, disengage and escape, this makes us the best roaming and ninjaing class, but no more.
Please think that our meta is really limited, we do what we can, and keep in mind that there are thieves in both teams.
I think that they should buff p/p skills to give more viability of playing performances..
I would reduce the execution time of upload, give another condition to skill two and increase the time of effect of 4 or 5 skill. Anet should encourage other builds. Probably I would change heartseeker, but not stealth but itself.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

I rolled a thief because I’m trying all classes, and because I think it’s true you have to play something to understand it. I’ve found they’re not an “I win” button by any means. I’ve also found I still can’t read other thieves’ minds and know where they are in stealth just because I use it to, so that suggestion rarely helps. I’m still learning of course.

Basically they’re an anti-social class, able to roam better than others and survive in a non-supported non-supporting way that sets them apart from the others (in wvw anyway.) Stealth and thief gameplay is impossible to balance with the rest because it’s just so different than other classes’ gameplay. This isn’t to say it’s bad or should be removed, it’s just totally different. I’m not sure they’re meant to offer group value, as the OP puts it. It seems intended that they’re loners.

Sitkaz.5463:

I rolled a thief because I’m trying all classes, and because I think it’s true you have to play something to understand it. I’ve found they’re not an “I win” button by any means. I’ve also found I still can’t read other thieves’ minds and know where they are in stealth just because I use it to, so that suggestion rarely helps. I’m still learning of course.

Basically they’re an anti-social class, able to roam better than others and survive in a non-supported non-supporting way that sets them apart from the others (in wvw anyway.) Stealth and thief gameplay is impossible to balance with the rest because it’s just so different than other classes’ gameplay. This isn’t to say it’s bad or should be removed, it’s just totally different. I’m not sure they’re meant to offer group value, as the OP puts it. It seems intended that they’re loners.

This is a perfect example of the third line in my siggy.

This guy is learning how to play vs. thieves.