Guild Wars 2

I dont mind too much running (I understand it is necessary and a tactical thing that makes killing actually matter, though I wouldnt mind some more points around, because having to run from corner to corner x5 times in EB in less than 10 minutes if you are melee sucks) but what really bother me is repairs.

You might say, “meh, 7-11 silver of repairs is not that much tbh” but it adds up, specially if you arent one of those guys who can stay on the back spamming circles at 1200 range. It makes roaming dangerous, not fun, I dont like zergs (allies nor eney zergs) but currently is the safest way to not have to pay so much every so often.

I understand it is a good gold sink in PvE, dungeons, just like we have WP fees, and TP fees, but in WvW where you are dying 24/7 ?!

Seriously, it is the only thing stopping me from staying there all day, I usually have to go outside WvW to go gather stuff to be able to pay for my 40 silver spent in repairs for the day, since I dont get to tag too much, my net gain there is sometimes not even 15 silver a day, and thats on good days when I get to use a staff with my guardian and tag those poor basttards that got left out by their zergs……

Whats next? repair fees on sPvP?! Please, remove the fee and you will have a LOT more people playing WvW.

that is the exact reason i don’t go to wvw, it’s all a big money sink with absolutely no incentive to play other then 2 have some fun

If i were you I would look at your build in WvW. I dont see any need to die 24/7 even if you are solo roaming, just don’t be to aggresive. WvW follows the same as PvE in the rewards, and lvling and what not, of course there should be a repair cost.

to make death matter and encourage trying not to get killed.

razor.5690:

If i were you I would look at your build in WvW. I dont see any need to die 24/7 even if you are solo roaming, just don’t be to aggresive. WvW follows the same as PvE in the rewards, and lvling and what not, of course there should be a repair cost.

ok, i might be slightly exaggerating when I say 24/7 , but the point is there, I die more often than not in most encounters that involve a thief, or a mesmer. But that aside, I like to play guardian in-your-face kind of thing, and being on in WvW is fun, minus the part where at the end of 2 tower sieges I have to go back and repair 80% of my equipment. I ddi my job to protect everyone, heal them, and Im rewarded with having to run back, having to pay not only with my life , but with the few coins I made?! No, thats unfair, either give guardians a 1200 range weapon, or eliminate costs!

WvW belongs to PvE ,so if we have repaircosts in PvE, why then not also in WvW?

Black Teagan.9215:

WvW belongs to PvE ,so if we have repaircosts in PvE, why then not also in WvW?

Algreg.3629:

to make death matter and encourage trying not to get killed.

Because in PvE you can pick your fights, usually when you die there is 99% your fault. No, really, how bad do you have to be to die 5 times in 10 minutes in PvE?!

I sorry, but WvW is sPvP with PvE gear, nothing more, it should be treated more like PvP, in PvP there are players vs players, deaths are naturally going to ensue, discouraging death discourages fights, discouraging fights encourages safety, encouraging safety encourages zergs.

Soul.5947:

absolutely no incentive to play other then 2 have some fun

Isn’t that the best incentive though ?

Ashen.2907:

Soul.5947:

absolutely no incentive to play other then 2 have some fun

Isn’t that the best incentive though ?

mutually exclusive stuff, I would have way more fun if I didnt have to throw away the little money I make. Would make some builds doable, you would see a lot more people playing aggressive, roaming without having to go to a deserted borderland in the hopes that outmanned wont outrun in that fight you were finally able to pick up…

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Fortus.6175:

Black Teagan.9215:

WvW belongs to PvE ,so if we have repaircosts in PvE, why then not also in WvW?

Algreg.3629:

to make death matter and encourage trying not to get killed.

Because in PvE you can pick your fights, usually when you die there is 99% your fault. No, really, how bad do you have to be to die 5 times in 10 minutes in PvE?!

I sorry, but WvW is sPvP with PvE gear, nothing more, it should be treated more like PvP, in PvP there are players vs players, deaths are naturally going to ensue, discouraging death discourages fights, discouraging fights encourages safety, encouraging safety encourages zergs.

no. taking risks is a tactical decision. Yes, pvp involves death, it is up to each player to minimize own defeats and maximize enemy losses. WvW differs a lot from spvp which is more like a sports event, wvw tries to emulate battles with ressource consumption. Enemy coins are one of those ressources. Battles are not usually won by corpse flinging. RL battles that have been purely won by attrition usually had a tremendous cost for the winning side. You may want to google Pyrrhic War. Or maybe not, whatever.

Fortus.6175:

Ashen.2907:

Soul.5947:

absolutely no incentive to play other then 2 have some fun

Isn’t that the best incentive though ?

mutually exclusive stuff, I would have way more fun if I didnt have to throw away the little money I make. Would make some builds doable, you would see a lot more people playing aggressive, roaming without having to go to a deserted borderland in the hopes that outmanned wont outrun in that fight you were finally able to pick up…

Don’t get me wrong. I get the idea that a game play mode that represents a net loss in income for someone attempting to earn a legendary or something of the sort is a problem.

The point of the post you quoted was that fun should be first, then we should look at things like making sure that we can afford to have that fun (such as sufficient income in WvW to cover your repair costs and then some).

How much do people make in spvp? I’ve never tried it so I don’t know. It might have some bearing on your question.

I usually make a gold or so a day in wvw but I’m not sure what the difference is between how you and I play.

It is one of the reasons why I don’t WvW. Personally, I really don’t see how it’s anything to do with PvE. It’s a huge PvP arena with environmental hazards. Players kill players in any shape or form it’s PvP, What’s the difference between say open world PvP in another game than WvW here?

In any case, the main reason is economic. Since it’s possible to progress in the game solely in WvW, and you get sellable items and cash from doing so, you need a gold sink to try and equalise things out.

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Meaning, you aren’t running in a Zergball.

If you buy upgrades, scout, small havoc, camp flips, make improved siege, you are losing gold anyway, and repair costs just add to it.

This attitude kills wvw, kills most individualism in game, kills addressing real issues.
One way or the highway does this game more harm than anything else, and it is really bad that it seems to be the semi official Anet policy as well.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Meaning, you aren’t running in a Zergball.

If you buy upgrades, scout, small havoc, camp flips, make improved siege, you are losing gold anyway, and repair costs just add to it.

This attitude kills wvw, kills most individualism in game, kills addressing real issues.
One way or the highway does this game more harm than anything else, and it is really bad that it seems to be the semi official Anet policy as well.

If you think money is the reason people run in the zergball you need to take a reality check.

Because you earn gold by playing it, simple as that.

Someone needs to decide what WvW is first.

You have PvEers running aroung doing JPs and map completion, you have PvPers looking for fights and ignoring objectives, and you have people playing for points. Its like a 3 course meal was thrown in a blender and served as mush, nobody is happy with the current state of WvW....

If its a PvP zone then yes, repair costs need to go....along with the JPs and map completion.

Peetee.9406:

Someone needs to decide what WvW is first.

You have PvEers running aroung doing JPs and map completion, you have PvPers looking for fights and ignoring objectives, and you have people playing for points. Its like a 3 course meal was thrown in a blender and served as mush, nobody is happy with the current state of WvW….

If its a PvP zone then yes, repair costs need to go….along with the JPs and map completion.

Well you sort of answered your own question. WvW is all the things you described. PvE and PvP mashed together. This sort of “open world” PvP is quite common in MMORPGs. There is no need to define it as strictly PvE or PvP. We already have parts of the game dedicated to strictly PvE or PvP.

One of the unwritten objectives of WvW is to draw PvE players into playing it, and perhaps from then on enjoying the experience so much they play it more. A little like how some GW1 PvE missions had the same format as some PvP maps, and indeed cap point PvE events share an idea with SPvP.

I’ve read a number of topics on this, and it seems the issue is non-consensual PvP. In the same way as some players shy away from open world PvP servers in other games, so people do here. Except if they wish to do such things they would expect to do on a pure PvE server(PvE achievements etc ) they have no choice but to engage in non-consensual PvP.

So with no option but to open world PvP, instead of encouraging people to like the area, they hate it.

It’d be interesting to see how effective that approach actually is vs the amount of people stay away from WvW due to frustration from going there.

Tom Gore.4035:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Meaning, you aren’t running in a Zergball.

If you buy upgrades, scout, small havoc, camp flips, make improved siege, you are losing gold anyway, and repair costs just add to it.

This attitude kills wvw, kills most individualism in game, kills addressing real issues.
One way or the highway does this game more harm than anything else, and it is really bad that it seems to be the semi official Anet policy as well.

If you think money is the reason people run in the zergball you need to take a reality check.

Loot bags. Reality Check Accomplished. Most reward for least effort. Follow the dorito.
It may not be the “reason” they run in the ball, but it is the only way to gain coin while playing wvw.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Loot bags. Reality Check Accomplished. Most reward for least effort. Follow the dorito.
It may not be the “reason” they run in the ball, but it is the only way to gain coin while playing wvw.

Hm?
I usually get quite a bit of coin when running smaller 2-5 man groups. Every single event done gives coin, and many of those don’t require a zerg.

The fact that you seems to believe that the only way to gain coin in WvW is to zerg shows a rather big lack of understanding of the format.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Tom Gore.4035:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Tom Gore.4035:

If you are losing money in WvW you are doing it wrong. Really wrong.

Meaning, you aren’t running in a Zergball.

If you buy upgrades, scout, small havoc, camp flips, make improved siege, you are losing gold anyway, and repair costs just add to it.

This attitude kills wvw, kills most individualism in game, kills addressing real issues.
One way or the highway does this game more harm than anything else, and it is really bad that it seems to be the semi official Anet policy as well.

If you think money is the reason people run in the zergball you need to take a reality check.

Loot bags. Reality Check Accomplished. Most reward for least effort. Follow the dorito.
It may not be the “reason” they run in the ball, but it is the only way to gain coin while playing wvw.

Well you could also stay close to spawn and kill NPCs for the loot, but could get a bit boring after a while :P

Anyway, I didn’t say you didn’t make money running in a zergball, but I do claim that even if it didn’t bring any money people would still run in zergballs.

You can pick your fights in wvw too, just take a defensive build.

But either way if you’re dying more than money made, you need to rethink your tactics.

I could care less about the money aspect of it all, although it is salt in the wound…

…but running to a vendor after every death in WvW is pretty G.D. ANNOYING!!!

In fact there are more things in WvW that are annoying, than enjoyable. That’s not a healthy place for a mmo to be.

Repair costs should stay in WvW, but since chance of dying in WvW is way higher than chance of dying in PvE, they should be adjusted to like 50% or even 25% of what the normal repair cost is.

Ezeriel.9574:

I could care less about the money aspect of it all, although it is salt in the wound…

…but running to a vendor after every death in WvW is pretty G.D. ANNOYING!!!

In fact there are more things in WvW that are annoying, than enjoyable. That’s not a healthy place for a mmo to be.

And why exactly do you need to run to a vendor after every death? An item being damaged has absolutely no effect on your ability to fight. Only after every item on you is damaged they start to get broken and only then they will affect your stats.

Fortus.6175:

razor.5690:

If i were you I would look at your build in WvW. I dont see any need to die 24/7 even if you are solo roaming, just don’t be to aggresive. WvW follows the same as PvE in the rewards, and lvling and what not, of course there should be a repair cost.

ok, i might be slightly exaggerating when I say 24/7 , but the point is there, I die more often than not in most encounters that involve a thief, or a mesmer. But that aside, I like to play guardian in-your-face kind of thing, and being on in WvW is fun, minus the part where at the end of 2 tower sieges I have to go back and repair 80% of my equipment. I ddi my job to protect everyone, heal them, and Im rewarded with having to run back, having to pay not only with my life , but with the few coins I made?! No, thats unfair, either give guardians a 1200 range weapon, or eliminate costs!

What build are you running? Weapons, armor, runes, utility skills? I run a Guardian in WvW and the only time I die is when I’m completely overwhelmed by the enemy OR when I’m foolish enough to try and fight 1v1 against enemies, especially burst-damage enemies like thieves.

I don’t know how long you have played WvW, but it took me a while to understand the dynamics of my character and how I fit within a large group vs. small group vs. individual roamers. Also understanding player behaviors and what to watch for can go a really long way to staying alive.

Honestly, if you are playing with a decent group as a support guardian you should be just about the hardest thing on the field to kill AND you should be scooping up loads of loot.

Also, its easy to make 1g or more playing WvW in a night, and that’s excluding the materials that I bank. However I play with a WvW focused guild who runs together, in TeamSpeak, and uses coordinated tactics. So we tend to be successful and cap a lot of locations, which is great for loot, experience, karma, coin, and WvW experience. Plus, its more fun than running as a PUG.

lordkrall.7241:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Loot bags. Reality Check Accomplished. Most reward for least effort. Follow the dorito.
It may not be the “reason” they run in the ball, but it is the only way to gain coin while playing wvw.

Hm?
I usually get quite a bit of coin when running smaller 2-5 man groups. Every single event done gives coin, and many of those don’t require a zerg.

The fact that you seems to believe that the only way to gain coin in WvW is to zerg shows a rather big lack of understanding of the format.

Well every event except escorting a cow. You don’t get anything from that. You get stuff for killing one, yet nothing for taking the time making sure it get to its destination.

Yeah, I’m with OP, it its kinda annoying having to pay for repairs. Especially when you get ganked by a kitten thief while trying to run to a place. Hell, even if its not a thief, but one of those op pretty much insta kill builds. Those of us not in a guild and have to run pugs can’t coordinate like Stone does, so we would tend to die to a good coordinated group.

I’ve been saying since launch that they need to get rid of repair costs in WvW. It makes the mode pacifistic, as the average (note average, not hardcore WvWer) player can’t afford to take any risks because of it, and so just sticks with largest zerg. Completely destroying and strategic potential the mode could have.

If they remove repair costs, they do need some other kind of gold sink, but it should not be one that discourages fighting as much as the current sink does.

I don’t think repair fees should be in WvW. Running right back into the fray is exactly what every person should be doing if they want their side to win and doing so should not be punished.

If Anet wants death to matter more they could add a forced respawn after a certain amount of time (30s?) passing without team mates beginning to revive and a (15s?) respawn timer. The former will prevent players corpses from sitting around too long waiting to be resed and the latter would prevent players from immediately returning to a battle that they just died in. Both would give players good incentive to stay alive (frankly the long run back is already enough for me).

Earlier today I was able to solo-cap a camp that was being rigorously defended by an enemy player. I had to kill him/her 3 times to finally take it (and I was very nearly prevented from succeeding). For playing the objective my opponent lost over 4.5 silver in repair fees, which is quite a bit more than they even stood to gain from defeating me. This just doesn’t make sense.

Players should be expected to return to the fight as soon as possible and how the game handles death/respawning should be based around that expectation.

Before I ran with a coordinated WvW-centric guild, I had the same issues as OP. (Especially while I was playing on Blackgate). In fact our entire guild moved to a much smaller server after we had been on Blackgate since last August. Queue times are much much better now.

When first starting out in WvW a new player doesn’t know all the hazards. They may not even have their settings in such a way to see the giant zerg ahead of them. Repairing constantly was and is no fun and can be costly. It limited my time in WvW.

I made the decision to learn the tactics, to build my char appropriately (more toughness), to get on TeamSpeak for the server and listen to what was going on and where.

The OP has a valid argument, especially for people just starting out in WvW. And by removing repair costs it just may encourage more people to try out and stay in WvW. There are still plenty of gold sinks within WvW without it.

Gilburt.9146:

I don’t think repair fees should be in WvW. Running right back into the fray is exactly what every person should be doing if they want their side to win and doing so should not be punished.

If Anet wants death to matter more they could add a forced respawn after a certain amount of time (30s?) passing without team mates beginning to revive and a (15s?) respawn timer. The former will prevent players corpses from sitting around too long waiting to be resed and the latter would prevent players from immediately returning to a battle that they just died in. Both would give players good incentive to stay alive (frankly the long run back is already enough for me).

Earlier today I was able to solo-cap a camp that was being rigorously defended by an enemy player. I had to kill him/her 3 times to finally take it (and I was very nearly prevented from succeeding). For playing the objective my opponent lost over 4.5 silver in repair fees, which is quite a bit more than they even stood to gain from defeating me. This just doesn’t make sense.

Players should be expected to return to the fight as soon as possible and how the game handles death/respawning should be based around that expectation.

They stood to gain keeping that camp and the supply it provides including any upgrades it had (which a single upgrade would value at above 4.5 silver).

The repair costs are there to prevent people from running in killing 1 person and dying for profit. It is not terribly hard to make a glass cannon build that could do it, but this way that person won;t make money off of it. It gives a price to dying even if you have a teammate there to res you and prevent you from needing to run back.

Edit because Infernia had not posted yet when I started posting.

Actaully WvW has no other gold sinks for players playing it purely for profit with no care for how their server does. All other WvW gold sinks are spent purely to help your server succeed, so to remove the only source of a gold sink for badge/bag farmers would be wrong.

lordkrall.7241:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Loot bags. Reality Check Accomplished. Most reward for least effort. Follow the dorito.
It may not be the “reason” they run in the ball, but it is the only way to gain coin while playing wvw.

Hm?
I usually get quite a bit of coin when running smaller 2-5 man groups. Every single event done gives coin, and many of those don’t require a zerg.

The fact that you seems to believe that the only way to gain coin in WvW is to zerg shows a rather big lack of understanding of the format.

I understand the format well, thank you. You know, the format where a tiny % of players pay for upgrades, try to not lose upgrades by defending, and generally spend most wvw time spending cash upgrading things the zergballs don’t care about.

When I die losing a camp, its not just repair, its cost of 4 upgrades usually. For something like the North camp, I’ll die till the camp is taken, running back, holding the circle, running back as fast as I can to keep the upgrades. Repair gets big. You don’t seem to understand the entire format, Repair cost needs to be gone, to benefit ALL playstyles.

You know how many worthless wvw “missions” it takes to pay for a keeps upgrades? Honestly? I think not.

Repair just adds insult to injury for those of us who actually upgrade.

gaspara.4079:

They stood to gain keeping that camp and the supply it provides including any upgrades it had (which a single upgrade would value at above 4.5 silver).

And they stood to lose that camp as well (along with the reward from successfully defending it). I just don’t think the repair fees are necessary on top of that.

gaspara.4079:

The repair costs are there to prevent people from running in killing 1 person and dying for profit.

Killing one enemy, dying, and running back and repeating is a waste of time even without armor repair. I don’t think people would farm WvW in such a manner when PvE exists.

This and Balance issues are a few big reasons why i gave up WvW.

repair itself is not a problem it prevents you for just running in and dying.

however there is a problem that all that wvw does it rewards zerg gameplay. zerging gives you very good rewards, good karma and tons of gold with small risk if you play with right gear and in good group. it’s more like orr farm than actual pvp. clear map jump to next map etc. oh kitten.

but then if you actually go around roaming solo or small group you don’t get much rewards for your time and you will have a lot more repair costs since occassionally you get rolled over by 30+ man blob.

It’s a gold sink.

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Solo.9027:

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Or have less people on the map, or less gold to buy siege and upgrades in the first place.

Conncept.7638:

Solo.9027:

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Or have less people on the map, or less gold to buy siege and upgrades in the first place.

Outmanned = No Armor damage, thus no repairs needed on death. Also, I don’t get what all the complaining is about, the most I’ve ever had to pay is like 10s for repairs and that’s after like a few days of WvW with no repairs.

Kaizer.7135:

Conncept.7638:

Solo.9027:

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Or have less people on the map, or less gold to buy siege and upgrades in the first place.

Outmanned = No Armor damage, thus no repairs needed on death. Also, I don’t get what all the complaining is about, the most I’ve ever had to pay is like 10s for repairs and that’s after like a few days of WvW with no repairs.

Oh, wasn’t aware of that, good to know.

And that’s you, who is probably a fairly hardcore (or specifically tuned) WvW player, you are not the only type of player in WvW and it should be accessible to more common players who might have a harder time earning in game money with less play time. Not to mention being accessible to player who do not wish to participate in zerging in the first place, the only sure way that you won’t be regularly (even constantly) steamrolled by a zerg.

Algreg.3629:

to make death matter and encourage trying not to get killed.

easy to say for ranged classes with plenty of escape over others and cowards who desert at the first opportunity. the nerve you have of saying this statement is indescribable. all the ranged, run away while melee die classes believe it’s ok. ….wonder why that is….wait i don’t it’s obvious..

Kaizer.7135:

Also, I don’t get what all the complaining is about, the most I’ve ever had to pay is like 10s for repairs and that’s after like a few days of WvW with no repairs.

Also? …..? Please state your class and your playstyle. eg. if you turn tail while the front line dies at every opportunity….I have no doubt about what I believe are the common answers to people who state it’s ok.

Solo.9027:

Vol.5241:

It’s a gold sink.

Only if you’re bad.

Please state your class and your playstyle. eg. if you turn tail while the front line dies at every opportunity and use others as shields for own advancement.

jalmari.3906:

repair itself is not a problem it prevents you for just running in and dying.

Please state your class and your playstyle. eg. if you turn tail while the front line dies at every opportunity and use others as shields for own advancement.

gaspara.4079:

totally wrong. ranged classes pick up kills all the time without risk. and they do this by shifting the risk and costs onto melee. it’s obnoxious and so are the devs for promoting the idea.

wolfie.7296:

Kaizer.7135:

Also, I don’t get what all the complaining is about, the most I’ve ever had to pay is like 10s for repairs and that’s after like a few days of WvW with no repairs.

Also? …..? Please state your class and your playstyle. eg. if you turn tail while the front line dies at every opportunity….I have no doubt about what I believe are the common answers to people who state it’s ok.

I solo roam, take on fights I know I can win or pick stray targets off. I usually run Thief, if not that then Warrior, Ranger and Mes. Still leveling a Guardian. Occasionally I team up with a few guildies and run defense, defending against enemy zergs in towers and such. I never run with the zerg unless I’m leveling an alt since I find PvE boring.

Repair costs are basically nothing and its incentive to not die and to work as a team. You make your repairs in a single event