Guild Wars 2

Winfernal.9208:

Why did i even buy this game? 60$, and no real life rewards.

:(

I really hope you’re being sarcastic

It’s fun for a while but I’m already bored of it, you kill someone awesome now keep doing it because that’s all that there is, killing the same people over and over for a week. Oh you sieged a tower/keep, let me guess the same offensive strategies and the same defensive tactics from the other server. WvW is extremely bland and offers nothing but a play zone to kill someone. If you find sieging fun i pity you.

Why else did you get this game? To get gear you’ll never use except on the same, predictable npc’s? I don’t know about you, but I play games for fun, not in-game “achievements.” WvW is about the most player-controlled game type of any game I’ve played. And you must not have spent much time doing it, because your zerg mentality would have been shaken by now had you come across a good group of players that wiped you at over 5-1 odds.

The better question is, why are people not playing WVW?

Daddicus.6128:

There are no rewards

Yes there are

, huge costs,

No there aren’t

and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

No it isn’t

I like being outnumberd on the battlefield with 2 vs 1 chances and looking around
and im surrounded by my guildies.

Then i hear my commander getting kitten in TS3 and saying " kill those kitten kitten,buff up and stay on me….. CHARGE"

Then i see all the aoe and flashing stuff going upp and im burning my cooldowns up, dodge ,stabilty , flank and try to look for combofields and still staying close to my commander. 10 sec after i look around and im surrounded by dead red people.

Thats why i play WvW.

Camaraderie.

15char.

THACO.7021:

So to me evey single WvW Person who claims that all there is to PvE is A Certain Dungeon to me … dosnt get PvE What So ever

It isn’t WvW players who don’t get what PvE is, it is the 90% of Pvers who consider PvE = dungeons (at level cap). But then the truth of the matter is, PvE in most MMORPGS these days is more like a glorifed co-op with a lobby than a “massively multiplayer” experience or an RPG with a living breathing world, things like instanced dungeons and LFG tools saw to that.

THACO.7021:

At least PvE Wont rage at you if you dislike a Event or a certain aspect of PvE While WvW Players will rage at you for getting angry for being kitten on your way to the group, and then rage at you for not getting to the commander/group …
good jorb <3

These games are full of immature kids / manboys, there is raging or bad behaiour in all parts of the game, which is why there are threads in this forum on people getting kicked from groups in PvE with no explanation, for no reason, at the boss by people who then invite their guild mates, etc (PvPers behave far better in this regard) and if you think no one has ever raged out in a raid in one of these games, think again.

Oeps Rolls Necro.2594:

I like being outnumberd on the battlefield with 2 vs 1 chances and looking around
and im surrounded by my guildies.

Then i hear my commander getting kitten in TS3 and saying " kill those kitten kitten,buff up and stay on me….. CHARGE"

Then i see all the aoe and flashing stuff going upp and im burning my cooldowns up, dodge ,stabilty , flank and try to look for combofields and still staying close to my commander. 10 sec after i look around and im surrounded by dead red people.

Thats why i play WvW.

That’s pretty much why WvW is the most fun part of this whole game to me.

What else would there be?

sPVP/tPVP: That’s fun, but sPVP is just zerging with no tactic and tPVP is not my cup of tea either, because it’s too much about duelling, which I’m not that big a fan of.

PVE: Well, this is challenging only when you do it the first time and have no one to tell you what to do. I have completed 5 dungeons in my whole GW 2 playtime. AC/CM story in first week and then fractals 10 and 5 when the lvl restrictions were gone and last week arah path 3. AC and CM were difficult at that time because for all of the group it was the first time and we had no idea how the mechanics work.

fractals and arah I had guildies with me that had experience with the dungeon and told me the mechanics. And then it was just an execution. That’s the reason most of us (WvWers or PVPers in general) aren’t into that kind of playstyle. Once you figure out how something works there is absolutely no thrill to be had, because it’s just the same thing over and over again and if you’re not having a DC or forget what to do it’s really easy.

In WvW it’s all about the thrill of the battles. One moment you’re happily banging your rams against a door, the next second enemies arrive and all hell breaks loose around you and your suddenly fighting for your life.

And to those that say it’s all about who has the largest zerg, I say: “Get into a dedicated WvW guild and you’ll see that that’s not actually the case.” You can easily kill double your numbers if every man/woman works together and executes the commands well. But of course everything just goes to some extent. If you have only ten men you’ll most likely not be able to kill a zerg of 60+ (unless there is a really crass inbalance of WvW knowledge), but 20 killing 50 can certainly happen. And that’s the moments when WvW really shines.

Though I would really like to get more monetary rewards in WvW. I’m not a HC player, but I played from the headstart (almost exclusively WvW) and the most money I had on my characters was something around 50g. Buying equipment (especially if you want to try a different build) is a real pain, but not because of the rep costs, but because of the low yield of drops and expenses for siegeequip and upgrades.

I die a little inside when i try to level a alt in PvE, usely im in WvW once i hit lvl 20 and i stay forever…

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

I’m sorry but you seem to be playing something different. I make money and badges in WvW and have won several battles while having less numbers. Try joining a serious WvW guild or at least running with them on TS or Mumble. That makes all the difference.

Because it’s fun.

That’s pretty much the only reason – and a completely sufficient one.

There’s really no such thing as rewards in a MMO. You can’t pay the rent with your gear tokens or your new shiny sword.

xiv.7136:

Because it’s fun.

That’s pretty much the only reason – and a completely sufficient one.

There’s really no such thing as rewards in a MMO. You can’t pay the rent with your gear tokens or your new shiny sword.

While this is true, and the fun is sufficient, I still feel that WvW is not correctly rewarded when it comes to ingame currency or items.

I mean if you’re seriously engaging in WvW that means you’ll be using a lot of siege weaponry, most of which are ridiculously expensive, compared to my ingame income. And you also need to upgrade keeps and such (I know, that’s meant to be more of a guild effort, but still, it’s quite expensive to get a keep from t1 to t3.). And you just don’t make that kind of money in WvW, if you’re playing WvW only and not just run around plucking flowers or exploiting mines.

The badges should be a way to keep the cost for siege low, but you just get too few of them, especially if you plan on getting alts and getting the Pow/Tou/Vit equip for WvW badges for them.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m scraping by or even making a meagre profit playing WvW, but it is nowhere near the income I could have from doing PVE. So, if you want to try out a different build with a wvw only character, you’re screwed because you’ll have a really hard time to finance a whole set of equipment, if you’re not able to get it for karma (where only few stat combinations are offered).

Multiple bonuses to the server for xp, gathering, etc. and server pride. Plus, large scale PvP.

It’s like me going to the PvE section and asking, “Hey guys, why do you guys like farming the same, boring, mindless dungeons that never present any sort of challenge.”

Why do people play sports?

Competition is a simple concept.

I like to fight other players instead of scripted mobs.

Daddicus.6128:

the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

I will say that this is epicly wrong.A well coordinated group can kill a mindless zerg even if the numbers are 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

Or on even numbers , a better coordinated group can kill the opposition without even giving a single downed player.

As long as you have your comrades that you trust and enjoy playing together…Well this is where WvW has it’s fun.

Community for me. I’m sure others think the same thing about their server as well, but if TC hadn’t been…well. TC, I would have likely gone to play something else.
My guild is small, basically my wife and I and a few friends. Only 1 of them plays regularly, and my wife does her daily. I tend to play 6+ hours a day, 12+ on weekends some days.
So, since I don’t really find dungeons/fractals “fun”, I was back to doing what I do in most games, leveling and gearing one of every class and achievement whoring.
Did the wvw jp’s, than started on map completion…which put me with a large group taking objectives for poi’s I needed. That was all it took. With the guys/gals running around for our side, you can’t help but log in and play some.

If you ever make it into wvw right at reset, it is some of the most intense fun you are going to find in the game.

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

Fighting. Battlefield. Not a craptastic sandbox playground of sPvP.

It’s like this:

1. sPvP is a larger-scale duels. Duels are lame. Non-dynamic. Stale. Especially in GW2 with the small map objectives with no variations. SWTOR had better warzones than GW2 has for sPvP. WoW had better BGs than GW2’s sPvP. WAR had better SCs.

As far as the small-scale PvP instances go, GW2’s are lackluster and sub-par.

2. PvE is scripted. Lame. If I want quality PvE I’ll go play Langrisser or an ARPG. PvE can suck my left nut.

3. Teamwork. 5-man teamwork is /zzz. It has potential, but there are limits. WvW has teamwork between 2 through 100+ players. In other games, similar formats had up to 500+ players. GW2 is, again, limited. Ohwell, at least GW2 is alive.

4. Dynamic combat situations. In sPvP, the battlefield is narrow, which has some merits. However, in sPvP you will never 5 v 20. You will never 10 v 100. In WvW, you can,

5. Dynamic objectives. sPvP is narrow. There are a handful of control points with 1-2 optional bonus point events. WvW is much more broad. There are dozens of control points of various value. There are additional control points that have other purposes (cough, supply). There are additional minor control points that offer tactical value (sentries).

WvW has much more complex strategy and tactics, even as we criticize how the maps are “connect-the-dot trebuchets”.

6. Dynamic gameplay. WvW offers many venues of PvP in one integrated format. You can run solo. You can scout. You can roam and raze supply camps, you can assassinate dolyaks, you can zerg. You can hide in keeps. You can coordinate chat and voice comms. You can be a commander. You can be a siege specialist. Much more than narrow “bunker or roam/kill” of sPvP.

7. Community. Server pride. One of the interesting things that changed with the entire MMORPG genre due to WoW is the xenophobia of players and the erosion of communities. In the EQ days, at least the encounters were typically uncapped so you had a LOT of players (even though xenophobia was a problem then as well). In WoW, this really took off and everyone outside your guild was your enemy. In a WvW format, every stranger who hails from the same server is, in fact, your teammate and ally. This context is a great catalyst for community building. Several DAOC server communities STILL exist over a decade after the game more or less died.

WvW is basically superior and more comprehensive gameplay.

You’re basically asking why MMORPGs ever evolved past solo quests, on the PvP side.

It’s in the blood. I don’t understand how people at arcades ever tolerated playing Pacman when they could play Street Fighter and beat the kitten out of player, rather than running around with the AI.

At an arcade you get no rewards. You chunk down 25-50c for a few minutes wasting your life. But it’s fun.

WvW is fun. sPvP and PvE are bother narrower, less dynamic, less variable, less interesting game modes.

Why would someone play anything other than WvW when it’s clearly, empirically superior?

Folk.2093:

Daddicus.6128:

Why do people play WvWvW?

Why DON’T people play WVW?

Now that’s a question!

Because I don’t benefit in any way. “Fun” is never a good enough motivator.

I hate my armor and think it should be punished.

Really for me it’s roaming pvp, not knowing who what or how many are around the next bend has a thrill to it you can’t find is spvp.

Daddicus.6128:

Thanks

But why would someone spend a fortune repairing armor for virtually no reward?

Why would someone spend hours and hours to get a single piece of raid gear coming from the same dungeon run…over and over?

Why does there have to a digital goodie reward? Isn’t the concept of “fun” enough anymore? Why does everyone spend a fortune on seige knowing full well its going to disappear or that the other servers will likely overrun it?

I don’t think any of us can define what is “fun” for anyone else other than ourselves. No matter how hard we try.

In the end, in any video game, whatever you accomplish there in terms of wealth is not real or all that important. What you accomplish in terms of old / new friends is what counts.

Daddicus.6128:

Thanks

But why would someone spend a fortune repairing armor for virtually no reward?

The costs can vary alot depending on what you’re doing. The armor repair costs don’t usually bother me too much, but if you’re playing defensively, e.g. upgrading and sieging up a tower, especially if you’re buying blueprints, that can get pretty pricey. But when you start to feel the pinch you can switch off and run with the zerg for a while and make it back.

I play both WvW and PvE. Each starts to get old if I do them exclusively, but having both of them gives me enough variety to keep me coming back. The WvW gives me the additional challenge of fighting against other players and I find that there is a sense of community among the regular WvW players that I enjoy, in carefully managed doses. OTOH, I don’t roleplay in WvW and it lacks the story and lore elements that I enjoy about PvE, and I find PvE somewhat restful after the intensity of WvW.

I play for the giggles.
I play for the epic fights.
I play for that feeling of awesome you have when your small group holds against impossible odds.
I play for that feeling of awesome you get when you work together with complete strangers to accomplish something awesome.

No rewards? so what, I don’t care. There’s many reasons for you to play WvW you just have to find your own.

Peoples playing WvW are much more nicer then PvEers.
For example:
When i say in wvw: I am going to log, good night all.. People say good night back.

But every time i do this when doing a dungeon run, people start cursing at me instead of saying good night back.

buki.3108:

Because it’s the closest thing we have to Realm vs Realm…. for now.

Soon….. plus it’s fun to knock other people’s kitten in the dirt.

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

I suppose it will depend on your server match up. If you’re on a server where you’re greatly outmanned all the time I suppose it can be bad, but even then it would depend on how bad the outmanning is.

If you’re on a strong side or just an even match up, a lot of back and forth tower and camp flips, then WvW can be a much faster progress than PvE. One time our server held off the other two servers in the SM throne room for almost two hours which was a thrill in itself, but also an absolute gold mine of kharma, coin and loot.

So I dunno what you mean by no rewards.

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

Isn’t this like asking why do you play MMO’s (or at least this one) when in life, you don’t get anything for it. You don’t get more money (if anything, you pay money), you don’t get fame or glory outside of the game, and in the end, you’ll move onto another game to play.

Why do we do it? For the same reason…it’s called entertainment. The reward is itself, the entertainment and thrill of fighting against another server.

Honestly, if you don’t get it, no amount of explaining it here will make you understand. I don’t pretend to understand why people find it thrilling to travel the world, but I know several people who do. It’s no different than this.

Answers above are way to complicated. PvP > PvE. It is that simple. Plenty of games out there better than this one if you wish to PvE. But battling folks in real time for strategic points > battle the PvE mobs.

It’s got more strategic and tactical depth than any other facet of the game.

Yes, it’s disappointing to see people come in with gear from PvE that I can’t get (or can’t practically get) through WvW, and it’s superior to my WvW gear but I just live with it for now. I really don’t care about gear other than I need to keep up with the Jonses.

Yes, I can’t afford most of what I want to do and I gave up buying upgrades once I added the additional money sink of consumables and WvW generates FAR less gold per hour than PvE but PvE bores me so much that I can’t bring myself to go do it. I just cut back on my WvW expenses to balance my budget and try to play market buy/sell games to supplement.

But I disagree that the larger force always wins. In a straight open field zerg-on-zerg yeah there’s not a lot of margin for error, usually. 30 will usually beat 20 even if the 20 are more skilled…usually. In a defensive action, though, 20 skilled players with walls and siege can hold off 30 unskilled players pretty much forever. I know we’ve held a keep for 2 hours under odds worse than that (like 20 defenders against 60+ attackers).

“Sandbox PvP”, which WvW is the closest thing GW2 has to that, is some of the most fun a game can offer. Toys to play with, goals to achieve but few real restrictions on how, when and where we achieve them makes for a far more interesting game than PvE or sPvP, long term.

I play WvW for the phat loot.

Dynamic.

While I’m sure many WvW veterans wouldn’t call it dynamic so much nowdays. The fact is that compared to dynamic events in PvE, WvW is more so and even tho ANet have been pushing sPvP really hard. The nature of open field fights in WvW is more dynamic.

Why do people play WvW?

There are so many reasons it’s hard to know where to start.

1. PvE is boring, so bloody boring. The first time you do a Dungeon okay it might be fun the second time might be as fun as the first time but as of the third time doing the same old song and dance it get’s dull. It might be for some people and if your doing it for a reward your playing the game for the wrong reason.

2. The community. There is nothing funner in game then having a case of beer next to your PC on a Friday night reset, and killing people with a bunch of buddies. Telling Jokes having fun and simply enjoying the game.

3. Most WvW players don’t need a reward to have to play. Your fun is your reward. If your not having fun go do something else I have never heard a WvW player on my server kitten someone out for going to run a dungeon or log off.

4. Lack of commitment. Sure when I was younger I could go and raid every night of the week in WOW, but when your not there the other 24 or 9 people are looking for someone to fill your spot. If I don’t log into WvW for one night no one cares. They might ask where I am if anyone knows but they aren’t cussing my name because I didn’t show up.

5. The complaint that you don’t make money doing WvW doesn’t hold water with me. I on average make 1-2 gold a night in a 4 hour play session, and if your a true WvW player once you get your gear (from Orr or Badges) you don’t need gold for anything else other then the occasional siege. I could care less that I normally have less then 20 gold. Gold to me is useless if and when I get a large amount either I go spend it on siege or I go buy another commander book.
If I still have 20-100 pieces of siege in my bag I don’t care if I have 2 gold. Gold means nothing to most of us in WvW

6. The people are nicer. I have never seen a PvE player send gold to another PvE player on the trust that you will use it for the better of the server. I have seen commanders get 20-30 gold in donations because they asked for it on the map just so they can take care of upgrades and buy siege.
PvE players are so selfish it can be disgusting, WvW players on average are very non selfish.
We drop plates of food for our whole server to make sure we have buffs. We play as a group and form a community we set up road markers to get around quicker. If I ask for a ram on a door I can get one instantly no one cares that it costs the 4s even if it gets destroyed.

Simply In My Humble Opinion the majority of WvW players are more fun to play.

I wonder how many people who have been playing MMORPGs for more than 5 years still really enjoy PvE.

I mean I did WOW for 3 years. It was on a PvP server but WOW dungeons are all instanced anyway so basically I did PvE for 3 years without complaint.

Problem is now every PvE setup, no matter how dynamic, challenging or interesting, is too much like what I spent 3 years doing in WOW (and more years repeating, basically, in every other MMORPG since). It just feels like pointless tedium.

At least in WvW I can come off of a keep defense or tower capture, look at the map and say “Something on this map is the way it is because of something I did” (or helped to do), “and everyone can see it.”

You come out of a PvE dungeon with a new pair of pants and nobody in the world notices or cares. If you didn’t have much fun doing it then it was just a complete waste of time. Arguably all games are time-wasters but games where I learn nothing, impact nothing and don’t improve my skills any is a REAL waste of time. Might as well go watch paint dry.

Competitive online gaming is where it’s at.
Cooperative PvE is for people new to the genre who aren’t bored out of their skulls by it already.

Community, cooperation, competition.

It’s more dynamic than any other subset of the game due to its unpredictable nature, and it’s got a better sense of community than PvE or sPvP (outside of guilds, at least). It takes the cooperative nature of PvE and adds to it the competitive nature of PvP. Granted there is team cooperation in sPvP, but it’s not on the scale as WvW.

In the end, these things make it fun for WvWers. If you find fun in gaining virtual rewards, that’s great, but it’s hardly the only way to have fun – and this is a game, after all. Fun should be the point, and I don’t need any rewards to motivate me when the gameplay is fun.

Ruin.3461:

Daddicus.6128:

Thanks

But why would someone spend a fortune repairing armor for virtually no reward?

I can’t think of a time when I’ve ended a WvW session and lost money…

Seriously. Even on sessions where I wasted lots on upgrades and siege I usually came out ahead. Only loosing money if you aren’t dong anything but getting shanked. Even huddling in a group getting nothing but cap rewards will pay for repairs. Unless you stand round thinking you can play like you would a PvE fight. Gotta shake rust myslef if I wanna play. Been lvling a new guard and that PvE cushiness has spoiled me. Playing bad right now. When I’m playing. SOOO bored with the perpetual matchup with Henge and Haven. Can’t bring myself to bother, so more rust >.<

Caledore.6271:

Community, cooperation, competition.

/sign

Every battle brings up new challanges.
Expect the unexpected.

A dungeon can never bring that much dynamic in a game as an enemy zerg with a skilled commander.

Ingame Currency? Not my concern, i have what i need.
Why should i get more of it? Its just collecting dust on the Bank.
And i don´t lose Money in WvW. I just do not make that much as in PvE.

Daddicus.6128:

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

I think Conan said it best
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

I play for the thrill. Im the d/d thief surfing the rear of your zerg trying not to drown while picking off those who get hurt by my teammates you have tunnel vision on.

slice slice slice you’re dead.

Malorian.3189:

Daddicus.6128:

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

I think Conan said it best
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Yes, YESSS. Some of my best memories of the game come from breaking enemy sieges at Bay. (mostly a homeland defender) they are especially sweet when we are greatly outnumbered. Which is the norm on GoM.

Islefive.2971:

Why do people play WvW?

There are so many reasons it’s hard to know where to start.

6. The people are nicer. I have never seen a PvE player send gold to another PvE player on the trust that you will use it for the better of the server. I have seen commanders get 20-30 gold in donations because they asked for it on the map just so they can take care of upgrades and buy siege.
PvE players are so selfish it can be disgusting, WvW players on average are very non selfish.
We drop plates of food for our whole server to make sure we have buffs. We play as a group and form a community we set up road markers to get around quicker. If I ask for a ram on a door I can get one instantly no one cares that it costs the 4s even if it gets destroyed.

Simply In My Humble Opinion the majority of WvW players are more fun to play.

This last part reminds me of getting sent gold to continue upgrades when a commander logged (Scarecrow). Never crossed my mind to pocket it. Helps remind me of some of the reasons I liked playing…… maybe it will make the burnout I’m currently feeling with the perpetual DH/GoM/HoD matchup is causing ease off. Felt a bit bad not staying last night when I knew there were people on I knew. Not quite ready yet tho. Maybe next reset I’ll have had a long enuff break.

Cause pve is worthless in any game

To roam solo and win 2 vs 1s and 3 vs 1s, take supply camps, and guard points.

Nothing beats the thrill and unpredictability of fighting a human opponent as opposed to NPC’s. WvW is even more unpredictable compared to Spvp as you don’t know what lies behind the corner.

It’s fun!

To roam around in a huge zerg ball, getting the best from culling for maximum effect, and farming honor badges and events etc…

So easy just to follow the pack, you don’t need to know what you are doing either – it’s fun and predictable. There is no PvP element to really worry about.

OK, thanks. I understand now.

I WvWvW for the fun. It’s the closest thing we have now a days to the good old DAoC frontiers and PvP servers.

For me, the reward is the fun in itself. The only shiny I keep my eye on is the red/blue/green pie chart.

If you are having money issues, I would suggest taking it easy and looking for a group of your realm mates to run with, find some keeps/towers to defend, and learn to read your surroundings (to know when to advance and when to run away) before heading out in small groups/solo. Once you start feeling more confident, run with smaller groups and capture sentries, doylaks, npc and supply camps. Those are all events that net you some small rewards but can be done multiple times per session if the zone is seeing a log of action.

Help out with tower/keep offense and defense when you can, both of those are also events.

Also I would observe and learn when/where siege should be placed before investing in placing your own. Siege can eat up funds quickly if used haphazardly.

You can also work on your daily and monthly events in WvWvW if that is your thing. You earn a little cash there.

Also don’t forget your loot bags. I find myself just hitting the action key (F) out of habit when I see an enemy low on life/go down incase some of that belongs to me.

After a few days of this you should see your funds grow. The gain is much slower than pure PvE but you don’t really have to invest a ton into WvWvW either so it seems to even out in the end.

our guilds TS that is why i play WvW

Daddicus.6128:

I can’t figure out why anybody plays WvWvW. There are no rewards, huge costs, and the outcome of all battles is determined strictly by which side happens to have the most players.

Can someone please explain what motivates people to play WvWvW?

Thank you.

well it’s more likely for the legendary title of 250k kills, thus this would be more meaningful than those legendary weapons which now people qq are so easy to get :P

doubt it…

I play because PvE is boring and its alot of fun to play with my guild and fight the other guilds