Guild Wars 2

To asnwer fenrir : Your thoughts on pets? all that support and condis! Looks nice on paper but in use its not. Pet wont survive more then 2 seconds during the fight .

Ranger support. Yeah warhorn buff is nice thats true. Precision trait is also nice. Spirits? Nope they die in 2 seconds. Fire fields from torch? I heard eles can give that too with only 5 seconds cooldown.

Ranger damage. Axe autos 300-500dmg i cant really call that is good damage.
Traps wont work because the conditions u get will be cleansed in matter of seconds.
Gs somewhat good autos i guess because u get that evade with it.
Axe off-hand has long cast time and high cooldown and its static skill.

Ranger CC. As i said entangle is nice but with VERY high cooldown and it can be blinded / dodged / dps’d down.
Traps. Small fields and the CC comes with long pulse not instantly so thats a no.

Ranger tankiness. Yes u can go full regen ranger but u wont deal any damage except single target conditions. And the regen u get wont be high enough against 5 or more guys.

Thats my thoughts. Ranger is not good for zerging. Perfect for duels / small scale. I have played ranger for 2000 hours and probably over half of that time is in pvp so i think i have somekind of image what ranger is good for.

Fenrir.6183:

Ragnar.4257:

Fenrir.6183:

-snip-

What is this magical 30/30/30/30/30 ranger build, that can have 10 pets, 20 utilities and 5 different weapons?

Rangers are great for 1v1 through to 5v5, but their usefulness rapidly decreases in larger fights. Nearly everything in your post is about conditions, and conditions plain suck when facing 20 warriors blowing traited warhorns and 20 guardians with pure-of-voice shouts. Nevermind the fact that pets and spirits will melt within seconds.

So if you’re talking about roaming, then yeah, rangers are good. But I think this topic is more focused on 20+ guild groups, where rangers are definitely not good enough.

Yep they are. Read my post again. They’re not guardians, they’re not warriors, they’re rangers. They require good mobility and can do a great amount of CC through skills AND pets. Check the build i just posted and come back again to discuss.

You mean this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w

Zero stun-breakers, zero invulns, long-duration blocks, evades, or other survival tools necessary for hard-pushes through chokes or for “panic” moments.

Lack-luster damage. The only attacks that match GWEN damage are Maul and Path of Scars.

You have 2 immobilise skills on 20-second cooldowns, when warriors (Flurry) and guardians (Hammer-3) can do the same with much lower cooldowns, and they don’t have to give up any utility slots to get them. And then they have Earthshaker and Ling/Ring of warding on top of that. Is this the “great CC” you were talking about? The sort of “greatness” that requires you to give up 2 utility slots and doesn’t even provide half the CC of other classes?

Entangle is a gamble. Sometimes it can wreck people, but alot of the time they can teleport or cleanse their way out of it. And in the middle of a train-clash the roots will simply melt after only applying immob once.

Bleeds are irrelevant in large groups.

Pets are irrelevant after the first 10 seconds of large fights.

Aside from Healing Spring, no support for the group.

I’m sure you can survive and tag alot on this build. But it’s not actually doing very much for the team. If I were building a team with a fixed number of slots, there is no way, absolutely none, that this build would be chosen over a decent guardian, warrior, ele, necro, or even thief or engi.

Umad.7528:

Hvaran.6327:

SkylightMoon.1980:

In excess they are pretty annoying, but having 1 or 2 running with you can be extremely useful. They can cleave pretty heavily with the greatsword or keep up pulsing cripple with spike trap, muddy ground, or barrage. Not to mention the immobilize on entangle and muddy ground is probably the most annoying situation to be stuck at in game, since they pulse.

everyone just jelous cause rangers got pets

Im not jealous. I got a mini Mr. Sparkles. Its as usefull as a ranger pet.

U just didn’t tried Ranger meta build.
30/25/46/10/65

Rangers can do specific things, but cant do them all at once, which is what the gwen combo provides.

The trap build is nice cc, but then you cant eat damage as well like a necro can. or provide boons like ele, or group heal/ condi removal/ banner rez like war/guard. which can all cc AND do other stuff.

The spirit support can pump out boons as well as a ele, but then you lack control from static field (which is not aoe capped!) also they die fast, makes it kind of unreliable

The pet and spirit STEAL BOONS which is terrible. And pets AIs have problems with fast moving melee trains.

Heal/sustain rangers do decent healing, but cant provide stability/cc like guards

Damage build/tanky ranger does good damage but doesn’t have enough aoe damage, has no aoe stun on 10s cd, and no constant GROUP condi removal while doing damage like a warrior.

Rangers currently cant do two things at once which makes them relegated to the “Tier 2” professions along with thieves and engies.

Mesmers are special since, chaos armor, null field, veil, portal, time warp, glamour bomb has no substitute but is very specific. and after they drop everything they twiddle their thumbs and wait to spike?

Haralin.1473:

No leather wearing class is wanted in a zerg fight no zerg wants engis, rangers or thiefs in it zerg.

These classes are good at roaming or 5vs5 but not in zerg fights. Play a warrior and look how easy it is to survive in a zerg compared to the 3 leather classes and do also good damage or cc. I have a engi and a warrior in zerg warrior is way better than the engi.

I frontline thief with high survivability load out, Sb and S/D. For zerg busting, I’ll usually run dodgetrops, caltrops, and dagger storm for a cripple spam build. Dagger storm with Lyssa runes makes for some long stability. I only die when I’m out of CDs, and haven’t had the good sense to get out of the pile. Surf the Zerg with Sb, swap to melee to focus anyone who’s low.

While there are some ranger players I respect greatly, I can’t say it is a profession I’ve had any significant trouble with.

Fenrir.6183:

Umad.7528:

Please post a build that shows me what a ranger can do, why it is usefull and why any other class cant do that better. The spirits are useless the pets are useless and pretty much anything else i can think about what a ranger can do some other class will be able to do that better. Nothing personal its just a broken class.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w
Better immobilize / cripple / chill than other classes. Very resilient build and good damage while staying in the pain train. Ability to pull enemies with axe #4.
You can swap traits and use a LB with piercing arrows / 1500 range with the same build.

This is my current build, it’s very good in wvw but maybe you could enlighten me as to how the class is “broken” instead of trolling ?

I run a similar build to this when I run melee with a zerg. I don’t run traps and put enough in NM to get barkskin. You will have GOOD survivability, VERY GOOD mobility, GOOD stability/stunbreak, GOOD damage, SO-SO burst, and GOOD control (axe 4 pull, muddy terrain). You will not be EXCELLENT at anything though and you will rely on your team for heavy duty condition cleanse.

So, the “rangerz is awful” people, like the noob who said rangers have no stunbreaks, are completely wrong. With a smart build and good play, a ranger can contribute to a zerg. That said, people are correct in saying that ranger does NOTHING better than another class.

—Just don’t even factor in your pets during large group/zerg play. They contribute nothing reliably

—Your pseudo burst is really good for a couple of targets, but is nothing compared to ele’s or warriors.

—You provide little to the group, compared to support eles or even DPS guardians. Swiftness and regen are nice, but not that important.

—You have weak legitimate AOE.

—You have limited escape tools when focused. You have some, and can often escape, but when I play my guardian in a zerg, I feel like a god. When I play my ranger I feel like I’m one mistake away from respawn.

Rangers are very good for duels. They are also very good for roaming, but require solid builds and high skill and active play (much more than other classes). They really need some buffs that translate to group utility for zergs.

high skill and active play (much more than other classes).

123111111111111
pff

I am lol at this build too.
Iook at those ascent gears, you know most likely he is just making a build in his imagination but never play it. I did test some builds similar and it’s a guaranteed rally bot for opponents due to those reasons you have mentioned.

In zerg fight, toughness/HP is not so important. The key to survive is mobility+anti-CC+invul, he has nothing in his build. Once you get caught, the difference between 3k armor VS 2k is just being killed in 1.5 sec vs 1 sec. My guardian now wear zerk gears and I found no difference vs my old PTV gears for survival.

Ragnar.4257:

Fenrir.6183:

Ragnar.4257:

Fenrir.6183:

-snip-

What is this magical 30/30/30/30/30 ranger build, that can have 10 pets, 20 utilities and 5 different weapons?

Rangers are great for 1v1 through to 5v5, but their usefulness rapidly decreases in larger fights. Nearly everything in your post is about conditions, and conditions plain suck when facing 20 warriors blowing traited warhorns and 20 guardians with pure-of-voice shouts. Nevermind the fact that pets and spirits will melt within seconds.

So if you’re talking about roaming, then yeah, rangers are good. But I think this topic is more focused on 20+ guild groups, where rangers are definitely not good enough.

Yep they are. Read my post again. They’re not guardians, they’re not warriors, they’re rangers. They require good mobility and can do a great amount of CC through skills AND pets. Check the build i just posted and come back again to discuss.

You mean this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w

Zero stun-breakers, zero invulns, long-duration blocks, evades, or other survival tools necessary for hard-pushes through chokes or for “panic” moments.

Lack-luster damage. The only attacks that match GWEN damage are Maul and Path of Scars.

You have 2 immobilise skills on 20-second cooldowns, when warriors (Flurry) and guardians (Hammer-3) can do the same with much lower cooldowns, and they don’t have to give up any utility slots to get them. And then they have Earthshaker and Ling/Ring of warding on top of that. Is this the “great CC” you were talking about? The sort of “greatness” that requires you to give up 2 utility slots and doesn’t even provide half the CC of other classes?

Entangle is a gamble. Sometimes it can wreck people, but alot of the time they can teleport or cleanse their way out of it. And in the middle of a train-clash the roots will simply melt after only applying immob once.

Bleeds are irrelevant in large groups.

Pets are irrelevant after the first 10 seconds of large fights.

Aside from Healing Spring, no support for the group.

I’m sure you can survive and tag alot on this build. But it’s not actually doing very much for the team. If I were building a team with a fixed number of slots, there is no way, absolutely none, that this build would be chosen over a decent guardian, warrior, ele, necro, or even thief or engi.

OneManArmy.9732:

high skill and active play (much more than other classes).

123111111111111
pff

What ranger builds is this? The spirit build? Not something that works well in WvW…

Bredin.5368:

OneManArmy.9732:

high skill and active play (much more than other classes).

123111111111111
pff

What ranger builds is this? The spirit build? Not something that works well in WvW…

any rangerss build not workss well in wvw) no offense)

Soccergirl.5734:

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Yea but tanbin is also one of the best rangers in the entire game and even he dies if focused heavily, thats the problem , if rangers get focused they can get away but not alot of mitigation overall so they become #1 targets immediately in small battles/gvg

Haha kitten yea i remember tanbin he is the most insane ranger ive ever seen that kid is mad good, dun think hes ever run zerg play though only roam and duel but anyway for ranger zerg play i just dont think they have a spot there at the moment only in small group roaming and even then like quoted said they get focused hard in any fight and are considered ez kills. im a thief and i go for ranger first usually unless theres another thief on their end thats a heavy threat that needs to be taken out im sure its no different in zerg play they just dont provide nothing that stands out in large group play (except maybe spirit elite??) and are ez to focus and down in fights usually

Issues.3187:

Soccergirl.5734:

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Yea but tanbin is also one of the best rangers in the entire game and even he dies if focused heavily, thats the problem , if rangers get focused they can get away but not alot of mitigation overall so they become #1 targets immediately in small battles/gvg

Haha kitten yea i remember tanbin he is the most insane ranger ive ever seen that kid is mad good, dun think hes ever run zerg play though only roam and duel but anyway for ranger zerg play i just dont think they have a spot there at the moment only in small group roaming and even then like quoted said they get focused hard in any fight and are considered ez kills. im a thief and i go for ranger first usually unless theres another thief on their end thats a heavy threat that needs to be taken out im sure its no different in zerg play they just dont provide nothing that stands out in large group play (except maybe spirit elite??) and are ez to focus and down in fights usually

Then again any other profession, short of warrior, will get killed if focused hard.
Guardians and eles – super healing but once you burst them they dont have the HP pool to take it
Necros – apply any sort of stun/daze and they are done for in a heartbeat
Mesmers – only a few builds are good for survival when focused
Thieves – If they want to kill oyu, you got two choices, die or die later on.
Engineers – This one will take a while if specced right, but it will go down too.

Yes rangers have horrible burst mitigation. We got 2 utilities, 3 if counting Lightning Reflexes + Sword 2 combo to create a large distance.

Many other professions have way less stability then rangers. Mesmers, Thieves and necros spring to mind.

Also, many of you argue that rangers do not bring stability to the zerg. WELL WHO CARES. I don’t see any eles spending tonns into earth magic to spread 4-5 seconds every now and then, nor do i see mesmers ever use their mantras for that purpose in a zerg. And necros and thieves have more then enough issues with just getting stability up at all. So in the end, the whole “they dont bring group stability” argument is pointless, as there is only two classes that does that effectively. That is the warrior and guardian.

Fenrir.6183:

Umad.7528:

Please post a build that shows me what a ranger can do, why it is usefull and why any other class cant do that better. The spirits are useless the pets are useless and pretty much anything else i can think about what a ranger can do some other class will be able to do that better. Nothing personal its just a broken class.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w
Better immobilize / cripple / chill than other classes. Very resilient build and good damage while staying in the pain train. Ability to pull enemies with axe #4.
You can swap traits and use a LB with piercing arrows / 1500 range with the same build.

This is my current build, it’s very good in wvw but maybe you could enlighten me as to how the class is “broken” instead of trolling ?

Just look at the reply’s you got on this build. Again you wont excel on any job here others can do it better. And thats exactly why i think its a broken class for wvw because atm its just useless.

Prysin.8542:

Issues.3187:

Soccergirl.5734:

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Yea but tanbin is also one of the best rangers in the entire game and even he dies if focused heavily, thats the problem , if rangers get focused they can get away but not alot of mitigation overall so they become #1 targets immediately in small battles/gvg

Haha kitten yea i remember tanbin he is the most insane ranger ive ever seen that kid is mad good, dun think hes ever run zerg play though only roam and duel but anyway for ranger zerg play i just dont think they have a spot there at the moment only in small group roaming and even then like quoted said they get focused hard in any fight and are considered ez kills. im a thief and i go for ranger first usually unless theres another thief on their end thats a heavy threat that needs to be taken out im sure its no different in zerg play they just dont provide nothing that stands out in large group play (except maybe spirit elite??) and are ez to focus and down in fights usually

Then again any other profession, short of warrior, will get killed if focused hard.
Guardians and eles – super healing but once you burst them they dont have the HP pool to take it
Necros – apply any sort of stun/daze and they are done for in a heartbeat
Mesmers – only a few builds are good for survival when focused
Thieves – If they want to kill oyu, you got two choices, die or die later on.
Engineers – This one will take a while if specced right, but it will go down too.

Yes rangers have horrible burst mitigation. We got 2 utilities, 3 if counting Lightning Reflexes + Sword 2 combo to create a large distance.

Many other professions have way less stability then rangers. Mesmers, Thieves and necros spring to mind.

Also, many of you argue that rangers do not bring stability to the zerg. WELL WHO CARES. I don’t see any eles spending tonns into earth magic to spread 4-5 seconds every now and then, nor do i see mesmers ever use their mantras for that purpose in a zerg. And necros and thieves have more then enough issues with just getting stability up at all. So in the end, the whole “they dont bring group stability” argument is pointless, as there is only two classes that does that effectively. That is the warrior and guardian.

Yea, true I agree just dont think they have anything that stands out and stuff they can do alot of other classes can do much better, anet should do something about it really without making them too op in small grp play/dueling

the part i find the most humorous is that some of you are trying to tell all of us that the meta is wrong and that we in fact MISSED SOMETHING. you believe no one has tried to min-max the ranger and that you figured it all out. im happy that you enjoy your ranger, but this is a very arrogant line of thinking.

lets look at this mass immobilize build that was posted. you have absolutely no survivability. in roams, you’ll get spiked down by condis. in zergs, you’ll literally get run over as you have no stability, stun breakers, or invuln. the other issue is that other professions can do this better, while outputting large amounts of aoe dps and hard CC, and having much better survivability.

i have outlined in my previous post in this thread why rangers aren’t accepted by serious WvW guilds, so i won’t repeat. i just wanted to emphasize that we all need to get on the same page to advocate for change because devs obviously don’t play wvw at a high or even intermediate level.

Straegen.2938:

Noobie.1073:

This is as stupid a suggestion as one can get. You’re asking 1 class to fight against all other classes? For equal representation, just have 20 warriors VS 20 rangers, or 20 guards VS 20 rangers etc. would make more sense.

Nobody would want to see a GW2 reenactment of the Super Bowl with the Rangers (Broncos) playing the Warriors (Seattle).

Eh, I’ve seen stranger things happen.

http://youtu.be/MZCMg4YG_w8

Just saying, things can happen strangely sometimes.

I feel like the Ranger fans here are either ignorant (which doesn’t mean stupid), inexperienced, delusional or trolls. Either that or the majority of the entire WvW population has it wrong including many of us who have put hundreds of hours into the class.

Ranger at one time was a moderately good roamer but a couple key nerfs have crippled the class. It lives at the bottom of practically every “Best X in WvW” list.

I am not denying that Ranger’s need a revamp, I just find it irrelevant that when someone talks about roaming, YOU people say “well rangers are first to get focused”. Please let me know when you find a class that does not die when getting focused. I just find it funny that you’re basing how bad rangers are from an apples to oranges comparison. In Roaming (which is usually small scale, or solo) rangers are decent if not viable.

Sorry to say, but any class regardless of player is going to be at a disadvantage if they are in full Zerker/zerg gear and decide to solo roam. Shout/regen support guards/warriors will not do enough single target damage to kill a halfway decent roamer build regardless of class and they will probably end in a stalemate cause they won’t die to single target damage either.

In a zerg, good rangers will always find positioning. This does not mean the “good” ranger will not die, but if your zerg loses a zerg fight, what did your warrior or guardian do to help your group? On the flip side, if your zerg wins it’s because the other group had a few rangers out like 30-40 other professions?

In my experience, zerg fights are usually won with better coordination and communication as well positioning and using terrain to your advantage. Sorry to break it to you, but no SINGLE warrior, guardian, elementalist, necro, engi, or thief makes a big difference in a zerg. Zerg fights are and always will be won with better communication, coordination, and leadership. Group composition plays a big role in a GvG, but as a zerg with more randoms joining in, the group that is better coordinated will win regardless of composition.

Noobie.1073:

I am not denying that Ranger’s need a revamp, I just find it irrelevant that when someone talks about roaming, YOU people say “well rangers are first to get focused”. Please let me know when you find a class that does not die when getting focused.

It’s not a matter of dying or not in a binary sense. Relative to other classes rangers generally die faster because they don’t have the cleanses, invulns, target drops, or natural tankiness that other classes do.

Noobie.1073:

Sorry to break it to you, but no SINGLE warrior, guardian, elementalist, necro, engi, or thief makes a big difference in a zerg. Zerg fights are and always will be won with better communication, coordination, and leadership. Group composition plays a big role in a GvG, but as a zerg with more randoms joining in, the group that is better coordinated will win regardless of composition.

Are you talking about pug zergs? Because this thread is about wvw guilds, which are trying to play as effectively as possible.

Rangers do not offer any concrete advantage over other professions in the currently desired wvw-team roles, and there is currently nothing unique to the ranger class that is so powerful that it is worth carving out a new and novel role.

I personaly love rangers but I like when enemy team is full of them xD

Facet.5914:

It’s not a matter of dying or not in a binary sense. Relative to other classes rangers generally die faster because they don’t have the cleanses, invulns, target drops, or natural tankiness that other classes do.

Again, I’m gonna go out on a limb here and ask for you to make a video of all the professions with all the same gear and relative same stats and have each and everyone one of the professions get focused by a group to see who actually dies faster or if it really even matters in that situation.

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused. The fact the Ranger’s don’t bring good group utility is an argument you be getting from me because I agree with you and everyone on that aspect. Honestly, aside from Mesmer (1 mesmer only) and Elementalists, I don’t see any non-heavy class viable for GvG. So they might as well clump all non-guards and warriors out of the GvG meta. Sure engi’s can grenade at 1500, thieves can stealth spike, necro’s can place wells etc etc, all that means nothing when your heavies go down.

I would love to see changes made to the ranger class, but I am well aware that rangers are not going to be getting that from Anet or the community. Rangers were not meant to play in big groups and that is precisely how Anet is going to keep it. A Ranger’s only role in WvW is to get other people kicked out their guilds when they get stomped and that is all

there is one thing, rangers are best.
imobilize.

muddy terrain + entangle = epic imobilize

if you got 2-5 rangers in a zerg (with 20-80 others), ranger can be op.
in times while everybody uses stability before zerg fights it’s the only way to split the enemy zerg. static fields are no longer an effective way. good used entangle takes 3-5sec from enemy commander, because most of the players react very slow with condition remove. for static fields and hammer stuns you don’t have to react while you got stability.

and an other point: ranger is very variable. you can play melee, you can play ranged (with piercing arrows you do aoe dmg), you can aoe (yes, aoe!) siege on walls with barrage or traps, you can do solo 250 camps without any problems, destroy some arrow cart spots with 1500 range which are not attackable by and other class (nearly no ranger knows those spots, that’s the sad point), you got a explo finisher + speed and fury, you can hard-spike targets like the commander or caster from the enemy zerg, aoe fear, cover conditions, and and and …
(i know that at each of these points there are a better class, but no class can do all of this)

yes there are better classes. but a few rangers (which are competent!) are not bad. warriors don’t need any skill, rangers do. that’s the difference. guards or warriors are good all time, rangers just if they are competent. guard staff skill 1 needs no “skill” to hit lot of enemies. ranger piercing arrow need “skill” (=good positioning)! micro manage pet in zerg fights that it don’t die need “skill”, guard F1-F3 don’t. of course there are some better and some worse guards or warriors, but it’s much harder for most of the players to play ranger well than guard or warrior. this is the bad thing, most of the rangers are completely bad. best point for that… have you ever seen a ranger who sends his pet to outstanding enemies (to avoid the aoe with the pet, not to attack them!) and than on the enemies on the end of the enemy zerg while he himself fights with his own commander in melee? i’ve never seen one beside myself and i think there are just a handful of such players.
(i learn that in gw1: i micro-managed 2 years one of my heroes myself – each of the 8 skills. i’ve done duo speed clears with anton, it was very fun!)

Ragnar.4257:

You mean this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w

Zero stun-breakers, zero invulns, long-duration blocks, evades, or other survival tools necessary for hard-pushes through chokes or for “panic” moments.

If you’re too noob, you can switch the trap for signet of stone which gives you 6 sec invul to attacks or any of our stunbreakers(we do have 4 of them). GS #1 => evade and GS#4 => 4 seconds of blocking. You also have a leap to get through chokes.

Lack-luster damage. The only attacks that match GWEN damage are Maul and Path of Scars.

Not at all, it does very good damage… GS #1 does good damage and has an evade.

You have 2 immobilise skills on 20-second cooldowns, when warriors (Flurry) and guardians (Hammer-3) can do the same with much lower cooldowns, and they don’t have to give up any utility slots to get them. And then they have Earthshaker and Ling/Ring of warding on top of that. Is this the “great CC” you were talking about? The sort of “greatness” that requires you to give up 2 utility slots and doesn’t even provide half the CC of other classes?

2 ? Funny cause i see 3. Entangle, trap, muddy terrain. That’s 3 dude. And it WILL cut the tails, warriors can’t do it effectively, they have to get inside the enemies to do it. We just have to be somewhat behind. That’s a range issue, warriors and guardians just can’t do it.
Also…path of scars is used to pull enemies to your zerg, hilt bash can stun / daze and winter’s bite chills. If you’re gonna talk about other classes weapon skills, look at the ranger’s weapon skills as well…

Entangle is a gamble. Sometimes it can wreck people, but alot of the time they can teleport or cleanse their way out of it. And in the middle of a train-clash the roots will simply melt after only applying immob once.

Not a gamble, even if some people can get out of it, it’s very reliable and will trap several enemies. It might mean some rally for your downed, and an easier fight against less opponents.

Bleeds are irrelevant in large groups.

Pets are irrelevant after the first 10 seconds of large fights.

Again, if your pet dies too fast, you’re a noob…No one told you to take a crap pet with 2 hp…The polar bear has 30k hp and does’nt die that fast…he can also chill (-66% speed and cooldown reduction).

Aside from Healing Spring, no support for the group.

+150 precision, best waterfield in game, i carry a torch and warhorn for fire field and blast when buffing up.

I’m sure you can survive and tag alot on this build. But it’s not actually doing very much for the team. If I were building a team with a fixed number of slots, there is no way, absolutely none, that this build would be chosen over a decent guardian, warrior, ele, necro, or even thief or engi.

Yes, it is. It can save people, it is very good at CC and you’re quite the noob if you wouldn’t take this over a thief lol.

CRrabbit.1284:

I am lol at this build too.
Iook at those ascent gears, you know most likely he is just making a build in his imagination but never play it. I did test some builds similar and it’s a guaranteed rally bot for opponents due to those reasons you have mentioned.

In zerg fight, toughness/HP is not so important. The key to survive is mobility+anti-CC+invul, he has nothing in his build. Once you get caught, the difference between 3k armor VS 2k is just being killed in 1.5 sec vs 1 sec. My guardian now wear zerk gears and I found no difference vs my old PTV gears for survival.

Hahahaha…nice trolling.

I generally play as a necro but have played all professions " to see how they work".

IMHO, the main thing rangers bring to WvW is as follows;

“When someone discounts all Rangers as totally useless, they identify themselves as someone of limited ability”

Fenrir.6183:

Ragnar.4257:

You mean this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVJ2xVOWo2Bi1DCt/B1UwJLxUwfHdytaUL-jECBofERzEEwEIBK1sIaslhFRjVrETDjIq2cuIa1yAwsAA-w

Zero stun-breakers, zero invulns, long-duration blocks, evades, or other survival tools necessary for hard-pushes through chokes or for “panic” moments.

If you’re too noob, you can switch the trap for signet of stone which gives you 6 sec invul to attacks or any of our stunbreakers(we do have 4 of them). GS #1 => evade and GS#4 => 4 seconds of blocking. You also have a leap to get through chokes.

Its not a question of noob or not noob. There WILL be situations where you can’t tank the damage and have to use blink/invuln. When a 100-man blob is sitting above a gate with 10 ACs and you have to push through the dozen lines of warding, chill fields, static fields, and the DPS/cripples of all those ACs and players, and most likely your stability will get stripped. Dodging won’t always suffice.

Good positioning is a skill, but sometimes there simply is no good position to be in, and a good player has a back up plan for when kitten hits the fan.

You suggest signet of stone? Okay. Which utility slot is that going to take up then? Your stability signet slot? Or one of your “great” CC traps?

If there is anyone in melee range of you, suddenly your block isn’t 4 seconds is it? Instead it “helpfully” roots you in place. Very useful.

The leap, I’ll grant, is a useful skill. But it’s nothing that other melee classes don’t already have.

I said THIS BUILD has no stunbreaks. Not that rangers don’t have any stunbreakers. THIS BUILD. The one you quoted. Jeez.

Not at all, it does very good damage… GS #1 does good damage and has an evade.

You need to compare to some other class’ weapons. This damage is below average. A typical hammer attack hits for ~800 (on the toolbar in the builder, not actual damage), while your auto-attacks aren’t even reaching 500.

-snip-

2 ? Funny cause i see 3. Entangle, trap, muddy terrain. That’s 3 dude. And it WILL cut the tails, warriors can’t do it effectively, they have to get inside the enemies to do it. We just have to be somewhat behind. That’s a range issue, warriors and guardians just can’t do it.
Also…path of scars is used to pull enemies to your zerg, hilt bash can stun / daze and winter’s bite chills. If you’re gonna talk about other classes weapon skills, look at the ranger’s weapon skills as well…

Guardians can immobilise from range, so shows what you know.

Path of Scars, yes, isn’t bad. You can have that one.

Hilt bash and Winter’s bite…… single target skills. How useful! I didn’t even include them in my original post for precisely that reason; that single target is meaningless.

Again, if your pet dies too fast, you’re a noob…No one told you to take a crap pet with 2 hp…The polar bear has 30k hp and does’nt die that fast…he can also chill (-66% speed and cooldown reduction).

Again, this just leads me to believe you’ve never actually been in a serious fight and have just been pug zerg PvDing in EB. When a 100-man blob is defending the bridge at inner Hills, covering every inch of it in dozens of red circles, that pet is dead.

Aside from Healing Spring, no support for the group.

+150 precision, best waterfield in game, i carry a torch and warhorn for fire field and blast when buffing up.

+150 precision, wauw. +150 precision and a water field! You’re right! That’s incredible support! Wauw.

I did say “aside from healing spring”, but sure, just ignore that. And it isn’t best, seeing as it has to be placed in melee range rather than from a distance.

Fire field…… it’s not like Ele doesn’t already have that covered, on a shorter cooldown, with better damage, that can be placed at range.

And if you’re going to start allowing yourself 3rd and 4th weapons, then you’ll have to be prepared to compare yourself to guardians that have hammer, staff, GS and mace/shield. Sound fair?

-snip-

Yes, it is. It can save people, it is very good at CC and you’re quite the noob if you wouldn’t take this over a thief lol.

Again, “very good at CC” ?!?!?! Nothing in that build compares to Earthshaker, Line/Ring of Warding or Static Field. You can insist it is good all you want, but there are cold hard facts here. Your hard-CC’s are single-target, your axe-chill is single-target, and your immobilises aren’t anything that other classes can’t do already, and without having to give up utility slots or rely on pets.

As to the name-calling, I could respond, but not without shameless chest-thumping.

Just a fun fact, but due to how the TRAITLINES are arranged, with the stat bonuses, rangers typically got more DPS from their DPS lines then warriors. So if the warrior has 800 damage on his hammer AA, which has a crazy high coefficient, BUT also a slight aftercast (1/4th or 2/4th of a second, its not instant bang bang bang as it seems in editor).
Add in the fact that ranger AA is crazy strong if we compare the two and add in pet. As most pet AA’s is around 350-500/1 second bringing the ranger above and beyond what the warrior does. Naturally this will only play out properly in 1v1

Ragnar dude…you’re comparing ranger to SEVERAL other classes at the same time lol. Sure a ranger can’t do the work of a guardian + a warrior + an ele.

I’m not saying rangers are the BEST, i’m saying they’re good enough.
Consider this:
If rangers can do what several other classes can do BUT only at a lower output…What’s the difference in having SEVERAL rangers do the same output as SEVERAL other classes ? It’s all the same while still allowing players that love their ranger to play with you.
Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.
What you need is someone dedicated to his class, discarding a full class because of zerker LB bears is stupid.

And yeah, i know hammer guardians can immobilize from a distance. Just not as much people as rangers can. And it can be avoided much easier than traps/muddy terrain or entangle. Sorry for the miscommunication, i should have said “can’t do it the way rangers can”.

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Roaming in small groups and solo are IMO the rangers strength. I have no issues dealing with people in duels (except some specific builds obviously) but once in a group setting, you can’t help but see how other classes out-perform the ranger.

My simple fix, give rangers the ability to use hammers. Have lower damage, but truckloads of CC. Rangers are useful again.

Manbo.5403:

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Roaming in small groups and solo are IMO the rangers strength. I have no issues dealing with people in duels (except some specific builds obviously) but once in a group setting, you can’t help but see how other classes out-perform the ranger.

My simple fix, give rangers the ability to use hammers. Have lower damage, but truckloads of CC. Rangers are useful again.

group setting is a bit vague, seeing as anything up to 15 man teams and ranger works very well. Beyond that you can no longer sufficiently supply boons and group utilities with just 1-2 rangers, you will need 4-5 at minimum. Beyond 40 man zerg, you will need a ratio of 2 rangers for every 5 players. Meaning at 50 man, you need 20 rangers and 30 mixed to make use of the rangers.

Also, rangers are one of the professions that can apply the most AOE CC around. Warriors have stuns, but high stability uptime, or rather near-permanent stability uptime, counters this. Rangers bring a lot of AOE Cripple, Immobilize and chill through Barrage, Alpine Wolf, Krytan Drakehound, Muddy Terrain, Frost Trap, Entangle and Predators Instinct. Most of these skills are on 20-30 second cooldown with the exception of Entangle.

Soft and Hard CC is not the weakness of the ranger at all. Unlike warriors and guardians which have MOST of their soft/hard CC on melee/300 range, rangers have mostly AOE soft and hard CC. The major difference is that rangers have to sacrifice a utility slot which would otherwise be used for other purposes.

Currently, the GWEN meta dictates that you concentrate on mostly Guards and Warriors for cleansing and stability, then you add eles for AOE and utility and necromancers for life blast/condition overload.

To counter GWEN with a setup including rangers, in a 30v30, you’d need 10 rangers, all using tank setups. Ofcourse it is not a problem for the rangers, they can handle it just fine but the DPS aspect of such a zerg would be horrible. You could simply win by attrition and tactics, but in a DPS vs Tank setup, the numbers mostly favors DPS. There is certain ways to combine professions that would simply wreck any GWEN zerg, but at this point, the playerbase are not willing to invest the time to level up a ranger/thief/engineer/elementalist/mesmer to stop something that can be countered by bringing a bigger zerg then the enemy.

The solution to counter GWEN and make rangers “viable” is there, always been there. Both guardians and warriors are natively weak to thieves and rangers because of their design (in-combat mobility, evades, AOE poison, soft + hard CC spammage)

Honestly, if ArenaNet changed “Stability Training” the way they changed “Vigorous Training”, and made Fortifying Bond apply boons both ways, then the two biggest weaknesses rangers have in zergs would be eliminated. For those unaware of what i speak of, here’s an explanation;
Vigorous Training gave rangers vigor when swapping birds and moas in combat, this was changed so that rangers apply AOE vigor to allies when swapping pet. If Stability Training, which applies stability to bears when they are CC’d was redone in a similar fashion the ranger would be able to apply AOE stability by swapping pets. Even if only while in combat, this is still a buff in the right direction.
Secondly, pets “steals” boons from allies. Currently a Master Minor makes it such that any boon given to the Ranger is duplicated onto the pet. However if pet get boons, rangers does not. If this trait worked both ways, even if the pet “steals” the boons, they would end up helping the ranger, and thus not be completely wasted on a AI pet that is about to die anyway.

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

mfree.5186:

there is one thing, rangers are best.
imobilize.

That’s wrong, venom thief is much better becoz of the apply / re-apply ability, and it’s for whole team.

CRrabbit.1284:

mfree.5186:

there is one thing, rangers are best.
imobilize.

That’s wrong, venom thief is much better becoz of the apply / re-apply ability, and it’s for whole team.

Yes, if running Venomous Aura it is, but even so, Immob only stacks 3 times at max. All the thief Immobs are at most 3 seconds, while the ranger immobs is around 2×7 + 30 seconds if using pets + Elite. These skills are all AOE. While the thief venoms are dependent on the skill used. If used with a AOE skill they will at most apply 5 1/2 seconds to 1 target capped at 3 targets (only 3 applications even with Residual Venoms), while the ranger will apply 7 1/4 seconds to 5 targets.

I regularily run with a Venomshare thief in WvW, so i know very well how this works and how effective the stacking is. So far, the best combo is an instant Krytan Drakehound + Muddy Terrain while both pet and ranger has Devourer Venom

23k Maul build, this build may or may not still be viable, havent run it for a few weeks. But given recent buff to Maul DPS, it may even be higher then this at max DPS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6H4ILEsYKEc#t=86

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

On a signet Ranger, LB Rapid Fire can hit for a TON of damage. Ranger has to be pretty glassy but 5 digit numbers on moderately armored non-uplevels is possible. The skill also fires through stealthing if you start before a target is stealthed. Not a common build due to the general lack of survivability but it does exist and it can kill an unsuspecting target.

mfree.5186:

there is one thing, rangers are best.
imobilize. muddy terrain + entangle = epic imobilize

Venom Share thief builds are probably the highest group immobilizers in the game. Entangle is on a monster cooldown but Muddy Terrain is a good immobilizer. Problem is in larger scale fights immobilize isn’t particularly useful due to the heavy condition removal. Immobilizing a warrior often means stacking them up with a free Regen.

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

WvW hates rangers because Anet hates rangers.

End of.

Prysin.8542:

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

Alright, perhaps “no” is too literal of a word. How about “few” and “worse than what other classes have” and “unusable without significantly detracting from the overall usefulness of the build.”

What gwen-class is this ranger that has Signet of Stone, Signet of the Wild, Protect Me, and Rampage as One supposed to replace? Haven’t we been told over and over again in this thread that the ranger pulls his weight with traps, muddy terrain, and entangle?

Straegen.2938:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

On a signet Ranger, LB Rapid Fire can hit for a TON of damage. Ranger has to be pretty glassy but 5 digit numbers on moderately armored non-uplevels is possible. The skill also fires through stealthing if you start before a target is stealthed. Not a common build due to the general lack of survivability but it does exist and it can kill an unsuspecting target.

Yeah, about that: I run a variation of a pure glass signet build so that’s why I’m sceptical. Rapid Fire is a channel, not exactly a single “7k LB shot to the face.” Even if you’re doing your anecdotal “5 digit numbers” total for the whole channel, it’s still less than 2k per shot. Therefore…

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

My Ranger Friends, listen…. It takes all but one time playing a Venom Aura Thief to realize how woefully pathetic we are in zerg fights.

WvW guilds will not bring a Ranger because frankly every other class does it better, We are great roamers this is true, But don’t pretend for a second we bring something remotely useful past 5 people….

Tinkerer.2167:

Prysin.8542:

Issues.3187:

Soccergirl.5734:

Bios.1398:

Man there’s a ranger on maguuma named tanbin who is kittening amazing at roaming and duels dunno what people are talking about. id like a good ranger in a wvw roaming group, but yea in a gvg i can see them not being really useful at all compared to warrior/guardian/ele

Yea but tanbin is also one of the best rangers in the entire game and even he dies if focused heavily, thats the problem , if rangers get focused they can get away but not alot of mitigation overall so they become #1 targets immediately in small battles/gvg

Haha kitten yea i remember tanbin he is the most insane ranger ive ever seen that kid is mad good, dun think hes ever run zerg play though only roam and duel but anyway for ranger zerg play i just dont think they have a spot there at the moment only in small group roaming and even then like quoted said they get focused hard in any fight and are considered ez kills. im a thief and i go for ranger first usually unless theres another thief on their end thats a heavy threat that needs to be taken out im sure its no different in zerg play they just dont provide nothing that stands out in large group play (except maybe spirit elite??) and are ez to focus and down in fights usually

Then again any other profession, short of warrior, will get killed if focused hard.
Guardians and eles – super healing but once you burst them they dont have the HP pool to take it
Necros – apply any sort of stun/daze and they are done for in a heartbeat
Mesmers – only a few builds are good for survival when focused
Thieves – If they want to kill oyu, you got two choices, die or die later on.
Engineers – This one will take a while if specced right, but it will go down too.

Yes rangers have horrible burst mitigation. We got 2 utilities, 3 if counting Lightning Reflexes + Sword 2 combo to create a large distance.

Many other professions have way less stability then rangers. Mesmers, Thieves and necros spring to mind.

Also, many of you argue that rangers do not bring stability to the zerg. WELL WHO CARES. I don’t see any eles spending tonns into earth magic to spread 4-5 seconds every now and then, nor do i see mesmers ever use their mantras for that purpose in a zerg. And necros and thieves have more then enough issues with just getting stability up at all. So in the end, the whole “they dont bring group stability” argument is pointless, as there is only two classes that does that effectively. That is the warrior and guardian.

Yea tanbin may be a kitten ranger but to be honest this thread is about GvG and tanbin doesnt do GvG , he roams and duels so this really doesnt even pertain to him so i dont know why people are even mentioning him as an example that ranger’s have a chance in GvG, he’s good as kitten i wont deny it but we’re referring to GvG style of play for the ranger class and ranger absolutely blows in this regard. Like xsorus said anything past 5 people ranger brings nothing substantial to the guild force

Uhm i was just mentioning him because people were kittening about ranger being bad so I mentioned him because he’s the best ranger I’ve seen in the game and does really well with the class… I do agree with you on the fact that rangers suck in situations past 5 people so i don’t want to make it out like they aren’t bad in this regard because i wasnt explicitly talking about GvG when i posted that it sort of a general thing. Relax dude

Prysin.8542:

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

For accuracy purposes, the elite skills on a Ranger have big cooldowns and well over half never take Rampages As One despite it being the best elite skill a Ranger has.

Signet Rangers while not rare are not commonly used by skilled players so both the extra invuln and stability are out in most cases. They do have stealth but it requires use of the LB which has its own set of problems and again is somewhat scarce on the more skilled Rangers.

The only other invuln has a BIG caveat which is the pet has to be up, alive and able to take the damage.

While you are technically correct, he is correct in spirit. Rangers do not take focused fire well at least in comparison to other classes that do (guardians, necros, warriors, engis, etc).

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

For accuracy purposes, the elite skills on a Ranger have big cooldowns and well over half never take Rampages As One despite it being the best elite skill a Ranger has.

Signet Rangers while not rare are not commonly used by skilled players so both the extra invuln and stability are out in most cases. They do have stealth but it requires use of the LB which has its own set of problems and again is somewhat scarce on the more skilled Rangers.

The only other invuln has a BIG caveat which is the pet has to be up, alive and able to take the damage.

While you are technically correct, he is correct in spirit. Rangers do not take focused fire well at least in comparison to other classes that do (guardians, necros, warriors, engis, etc).

Pretty much this, good rangers dont use it because no matter how good you are with it, it still doesn’t yield good results so there’s no point. Good to have fun and troll with but that’s where it ends.

As if it matters what class you play in a Zerg in this game.. Hilarious. Rangers need love, but are no where near as broken as everyone makes them out to be.

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

You do realize that Rangers have 6sec invulnerability, 20 sec stability, 5-evades, 2 leaps with 8-12 sec CDs that can be chained and take them out of combat right all in the same build right?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR84iEVGWs2Ag1DAAYQA-w

And yes, these are all on a weapon set that can and is oftenly used together. Not sure if you play a ranger, but at least know what the escape options are before you claim rangers have poor escape ability.

Ranger’s may not be able to stealth like a thief or blink like a mesmer, but they can get away. These bear-bows that you see may not use these skills but that doesn’t mean the escapes are non-existent, because rangers have decent drop ability.

http://youtu.be/G-CzRt3fbZ0

This was the best video I could find with GS/S-D ranger in action. He doesn’t play ranger much (if any) anymore, which is similar to what a lot of us have done, but at least know what the class has before you say it has poor survival abilities compared to…..other classes. It’s easy to say a LB ranger has less escape capabilty than say, a GS warrior, but then who does against a GS warrior? try comparing a LB/GS ranger’s escape ability to a Hambow? or Staff ele. Make good comparisons and not ridiculous ones.

Facet.5914:

Just for the record, I’m not arguing that rangers should be included in GvGs, I know ranger’s do not bring anything useful to the fight. I just wanted to correct you on some of the things you said about rangers

Would I take a ranger in a GvG? Only if I can tame Zhaitan to be my pet

Facet.5914:

Prysin.8542:

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

Alright, perhaps “no” is too literal of a word. How about “few” and “worse than what other classes have” and “unusable without significantly detracting from the overall usefulness of the build.”

What gwen-class is this ranger that has Signet of Stone, Signet of the Wild, Protect Me, and Rampage as One supposed to replace? Haven’t we been told over and over again in this thread that the ranger pulls his weight with traps, muddy terrain, and entangle?

Signet of the Wild + Signet of Stone + Muddy Terrain + Rampage as One. Krytan Drakehound, Red Moa, GS + Sword Warhorn, Spotter and last but not least, Healing Spring.
30/20/0/20/0

TADA!!!!! You now got a frontline melee build with CC, same damage as most hambow warriors, same numbers when doing bursts, just as much tankiness. However you got more evades so better overall damage mitigation. Not sure i want to share the exact build i am running right now as i am using it in guild raids.

Possibly unknown fact; Signet of the Wild grants X seconds of Stability, but also a 25% raw damage boost. Meaning you hit way harder and have stability too.

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

mfree.5186:

there is one thing, rangers are best.
imobilize.

muddy terrain + entangle = epic imobilize

if you got 2-5 rangers in a zerg (with 20-80 others), ranger can be op.

i designed a whole build around survivability and mass CC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snZRnEzpLPg). path of scars i also amazing. in short, it’s okay, but if i were a raid leader would i give up a good ele, necro, warrior, or guard for this? im not so sure.

you can build a hammer/GS guard if you want the mass CC (hard and soft). mesmers have a much lower CD aoe immobilize in addition to immobilize on interrupt, and one of the best/only pulls in the game. staff eles have frozen ground, static, unsteady ground, shockwave. i can keep going.

so what is the major difference between these profs and the ranger? they ALL do massive aoe damage on top of the cc, they all give better buffs to the group, and they all have more sustain and survivability.

if you try to spec this build to do more aoe damage, your sustain will be pretty bad. the ranger can be pretty solid for casual raids/roams, but if you try to do GvZ 20-25vs40-60 or GvG, other profs can do it better. every raid slot counts and each person has to contribute a lot, not just a few things.

I got a solution:
Make a guild and run rangers.
If you feel they have a spot on a roster.