Guild Wars 2

Prysin.8542:

Signet of the Wild + Signet of Stone + Muddy Terrain + Rampage as One. Krytan Drakehound, Red Moa, GS + Sword Warhorn, Spotter and last but not least, Healing Spring.
30/20/0/20/0

TADA!!!!! You now got a frontline melee build with CC, same damage as most hambow warriors, same numbers when doing bursts, just as much tankiness. However you got more evades so better overall damage mitigation. Not sure i want to share the exact build i am running right now as i am using it in guild raids.

First off a Hambow isn’t a front line warrior. Secondly no way a Ranger with this build comes with the similar HP (30k+ on a warrior), armor (near 4k on a warrior), has as much CC, as much AoE or has nearly the survivability as a Red Guard Warrior build. If they did, GvG groups would actively be using this build en masse.

Prysin.8542:

Possibly unknown fact; Signet of the Wild grants X seconds of Stability, but also a 25% raw damage boost. Meaning you hit way harder and have stability too.

It is known… it is an 8 second stability for a signet Ranger. The same signet is a 25% boost in damage. I use the build for PvE events. Signet of the Hunt stacks with this but they nerfed its use with Barrage, Rapid Fire and the like in the Beta.

meta is meta for a reason. while i can appreciate the dedication to your fav prof, it’s highly unlikely or even impossible that you found something “new” that we all magically missed after thousands of hours of experimentation and testing. rangers are the bottom of the barrel in wvw roaming, gvg, gvz, havoc, you name it.

Because the pets are idiots….

Terravos.4059:

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

Not only that, but the fact that it’s a heal means you have to choose between supporting your allies and healing yourself.

Prysin.8542:

Not sure i want to share the exact build i am running right now as i am using it in guild raids.

Lol I am running the same variant, but I no wan to share either.

mistsim.2748:

meta is meta for a reason. while i can appreciate the dedication to your fav prof, it’s highly unlikely or even impossible that you found something “new” that we all magically missed after thousands of hours of experimentation and testing. rangers are the bottom of the barrel in wvw roaming, gvg, gvz, havoc, you name it.

People probably gave up on ranger long before they even tested a third of the builds avaliable. The “Ranger is kitten” mentality has been going on almost since beta. If everyone thinks they are terrible, placebo effect makes them terrible, even if they are not. However the vocal minority that hated on it in the beginning was loud enough to make themselves heard, word has been spread and damage is done. No matter the buffs rangers recieve, they will forever be considered a poor choice because people want em to be so.

Ranger’s aren’t bad at roaming, I can safely say the only class that really gives me trouble is a Necro, but other then that, I win 9/10 of the fights I do on the Ranger.

Someone mentioned earlier that they got wrecked by the Nerfs they received, and this is true…BM Bunker is weak compared to where it was at many month’s ago..But instead of relying on my pet to do a large amount of damage, Switching to Spiders has just pushed me more into relying on Conditions to do damage.

But for everything else the class is subpar in World vs World.

>>>The pet and spirit STEAL BOONS which is terrible.

pets dont steal boons at all, they have a lower priority at getting buffs then players.
maybe it used to be true in 2012, but its 2014 now.

I think it’s cute to see Rangers the viability of their profession in WvW. Denying the facts doesn’t make them any less true and the fact is Rangers don’tmake the cut in WvW.

I have never lost to a 1v1 to a Ranger in WvW, one of my friends who PvPs/WvWs a lot, and who originally mained a ranger now playes a Necro or an Ele in WvW because she says her ranger sucks too much in WvW.

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

The adventurer classes in general are great for small groups (Engis, Thieves, Rangers), but once you get into the bigger groups, they lose a LOT of effectiveness. Rangers have entangle, cool, one skill. Waterfields, nice. Or, we can have Warriors with Flurry on a shorter CD, and more useful overall. Eles with staves more useful overall. It’s just about preference, although I’d love to see them as perimeter players in our gvg and open world fights, I don’t see it happening to soon.

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

While Prysin has been ignoring my post, I thank you! Despite the targets being an Invader and Raider (therefore one can probably rightly assume they have little to no toughness and from the sequence of events not much skill) those are impressive numbers at range with Long Range Shot, and even Point Blank Shot (which could easily crit for 7k plus).

Mind briefly sharing the build this was done with and your thoughts on it?

Facet.5914:

Prysin.8542:

Facet.5914:

Noobie.1073:

Though I do agree with you that in an organized GvG is much different than a Zerg vs Zerg, I was pointing out the fact that throughout this thread, people are talking about rangers not being able to last when being focused yet don’t realize that no profession is going to last very long when being focused.

Again I really don’t understand what you’re getting at here. Certainly any player on ~any class/build will go down eventually when focused by a large enough group, but build and micro create massive variation in exactly how long that takes. Rangers have a very unforgiving and frankly poor set of survival tools compared to other classes (no stabs, invulns, or target drops) and accordingly go down much faster on average.

Fenrir.6183:

Get what i mean ? They’re not the best, kind of jack-of-all-trades. Ok. But that means they can do as much as others, just less specialized.

This is a nice sounding principle but it just doesn’t work out this way in practice. The total output of the ranger is vastly less than that of the supposedly “specailized” classes that it seeks to replace. In fact, the notion that the other classes are very specialized is dubious in the first place. Nearly all of the currently popular composition builds are providing good damage, support, and cc at the same time.

Oh please, Rangers have 20 second stability on Elite, 8 second on signet if traited, stealth aka target drop on LB 3, 6 second invuln shout, 6 second invuln signet if traited.

However i am probably just lieing about this, because there is no way rangers can actually have this stuff. It’s impossible.

Alright, perhaps “no” is too literal of a word. How about “few” and “worse than what other classes have” and “unusable without significantly detracting from the overall usefulness of the build.”

What gwen-class is this ranger that has Signet of Stone, Signet of the Wild, Protect Me, and Rampage as One supposed to replace? Haven’t we been told over and over again in this thread that the ranger pulls his weight with traps, muddy terrain, and entangle?

Dude, stop trolling once, would you ? What class has 50sec stability, 100 sec invul and 10000000k million hp heals ? Seriously.
If YOU want to have more survivability in your build you CAN build a very resilient ranger. The build i put was to show what was possible to do concerning immobilize/chill/cripple. Of course you can switch some of the skills around if you want to. Same goes for the traits. With the same build, you can have a LB piercing arrows 1500 range build that’s very effective at defending in wvw. But maybe you’re going to tell me “OH where is this build” because you can’t actually make one yourself ?

Julie Yann.5379:

I think it’s cute to see Rangers the viability of their profession in WvW. Denying the facts doesn’t make them any less true and the fact is Rangers don’tmake the cut in WvW.

I have never lost to a 1v1 to a Ranger in WvW, one of my friends who PvPs/WvWs a lot, and who originally mained a ranger now playes a Necro or an Ele in WvW because she says her ranger sucks too much in WvW.

What you fail to understand is these:
1) No one cares about 1v1 in wvw. Also, a strong ranger can beat any noob, same as you can beat any upscaled. This has nothing to do with the current discussion.
2) Your friend probably just sucks at being a ranger. My main was a thief and while i don’t “suck” at it, i’m way better with my ranger. Which is my new main and have spent most of my playing time on now…
3) You have to spend a lot of time (probably more than any other class) trying to make your build the best you can. Mostly because a lot of people don’t bother and believe rangers are underpowered when they’re not.

It’s because of people like you, spreading rumors with NO fact to prove them that lurking rangers are complaining instead of trying to better themselves.
I could say i’ve never lost to a necro 1v1 in wvw with my ranger, which is true. Does that make necro a sucky class ? No. Maybe i only encountered noobs. Maybe i was lucky. Maybe my build was better against necros…who knows. That still accounts for nothing as far as balance goes.

KyreneZA.8617:

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

While Prysin has been ignoring my post, I thank you! Despite the targets being an Invader and Raider (therefore one can probably rightly assume they have little to no toughness and from the sequence of events not much skill) those are impressive numbers at range with Long Range Shot, and even Point Blank Shot (which could easily crit for 7k plus).

Mind briefly sharing the build this was done with and your thoughts on it?

30/30/0/10/0 LB&GS with full zerkers gear with scholar runes and traited for dmg modifiers, signets and spirits. Utilities are signet of the hunt, frost spirit and signet of the wild. When activated you will have a hefty amount of damage bonuses and since opening strike is always a critical hit due to the minor grandmaster trait in marksmanship you will be able to get those over 10k hits when you use both of your signets and your spirit.

This is a pure kill or be killed burst build but it is fun to roam around with it killing unsuspecting folks. The GS is there mainly for getting away when things don’t go as planned but Maul can also be used to produce well over 15k hits.

Terravos.4059:

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

I get it that you’ve never heard of blast finishers ? A healing spring can heal back to full hp a full zerg with them.

SkylightMoon.1980:

In excess they are pretty annoying, but having 1 or 2 running with you can be extremely useful. They can cleave pretty heavily with the greatsword or keep up pulsing cripple with spike trap, muddy ground, or barrage. Not to mention the immobilize on entangle and muddy ground is probably the most annoying situation to be stuck at in game, since they pulse.

Coz most of rangers, especially “Champion Hunters in Zerk gear”, are more than pointless for WvW-raid.
period.

@ Fenrir: name some wvw-guilds respected by the wvw community (like RG, VotF, etc.) that run with a ranger in their setup.
Unless you do so, you are just a rangerlover with no sense on reality!

Fenrir.6183:

Terravos.4059:

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

I get it that you’ve never heard of blast finishers ? A healing spring can heal back to full hp a full zerg with them.

So you use your heal to support the group wich leaves you without a heal to safe yourself. An ele can do same thing have it on lower cd and has an extra heal for itself.

mistsim.2748:

ParaldaWind.4523:

Anything a ranger can do another class can do better.

yes. this is a very important topic because an entire profession is MISSING from wvw. i dont understand why theyre not taking this seriously. allow me to address this issue as someone with over 1k hours on retired ranger, who plays other professions currently.

people love killing and hating rangers because they are the trolls of GW2. not sure if anyone remembers Retribution paladins or hunters from vanilla WoW, they were KOS for most people just like rangers are. there are several reasons for this attitude toward rangers:

- by far attract the worst players in the game, and have low skill cap
- hard countered by immobilize and virtually no reliable condi cleanse
- people cant stand rangers pew pew’ing with bows from 1200, it kittenes everyone off
- pets lack AI, which feeds into the “rere” image
- petting zoo is seen as zero skill cap, monitor crowding spec
- rangers dont do enough AOE damage, dont have enough survivability and dont have enough utility (***this is probably the main reason rangers are banned from most serious WvW guilds)

how we can change this attitude:

- keep petitioning devs to buff the profession in WvW, keep asking for pet mechanic revamp, keep asking for trait cleanup.
- run solid builds and pets to contribute something useful, like canines, high survivability immobs, or condi regen in small scale; use healing spring appropriately and ask people to blast it. change people’s attitudes by playing the best you can play.

Muramasa.6487:

Rangers are great to have in roaming groups. And nice for defending small objectives. You can hold a camp for a long time with a ranger and a few other ppl.

ranger is one of the worst roaming professions. mobility is good, but you have no real escapes (blinks, target drops), no instant stability skills like SYG or stances, little utility for your group, not enough damage, and NO RELIABLE CONDI CLEANSING, making immob a hard counter and ranger’s worst nightmare.

the serious issue of group utility: rangers reliably give only the worst boons to the group (regen, swiftness and fury, which eles, guards and warriors kitten out constantly). rangers do bring the best aoe immobs in the game, second best water field, and have decent survivability is specced right. thats about it folks.

the serious issue of profession mechanic: pets melt instantly in serious wvw engagements, and F2’s while useful have long cast times, which is why they only work on afk people and other PVE mobs.

the serious issue of worst aoe damage in the game: aoe is bread and butter of WvW and ranger has only ONE viable aoe ability (Path of Scars, because it’s instant, long range and low CD), and ONE unreliably aoe ability (Barrage due to its long cast time). traps, torch, GS cleave, Whirling Defense are bad bad bad bad.

i would LOVE it if Karl, JP, or Devon would comment a little on their perception of the ranger in WvW and future plans to make the profession usable in this game mode.

Every single time your valid and cogent points are brought out the devs seem to be willing to ignore the fact of the banning of people from guilds for their chosen profession and that it’s real and is not ignorable any longer.

On the issue of Ranger vs Necro 1v1

Most roaming necros run condi. Condi range is 900 for the most part. Condi build doesn’t run a immob other then DS 5 at 600 range. Ranger passive cleansing clears anything the staff puts out. Necro has no reliable gap closers and no escapes.

So kite at 1200, pew pew, collect bag.

Against power necro, if you can maintain range you can win but they have way more movement impairments (cripple on axe/wh, immob on dagger, chill on focus plus DS stuff.) plus very strong dps so if they get close you are done.

I know this because I have logged 800 hours as a ranger, then 1300 as a necro.

Fenrir.6183:

Terravos.4059:

You can run around with Ranger in a Zerg Fight, I do it on my ranger all the time, Running Signets and what not…However just because the Ranger can do it, doesn’t mean he’s actually good at doing it… There is a reason GvG zerg balls are nothing but Guardians/Warriors/Necro’s and such..

Also people keep bringing up Healing spring, let me be clear, Healing Spring is great and I bloody mean Great for SPvP, but everytime someone mentions it for zerging or gvg, I question if they done it recently, The one thing all Zergs/Guild Groups have in common is forming in a ball and moving, Healing Spring will not be used most of the time because of this. Its great in SPvP because you’re fighting on a point, but when Zerg Balling its not that amazing….

I get it that you’ve never heard of blast finishers ? A healing spring can heal back to full hp a full zerg with them.

I get that you ignored the whole Moving part.

By the time you drop a Healing Spring, the entire zerg will have moved out of it.

Lorelei.3918:

On the issue of Ranger vs Necro 1v1

Most roaming necros run condi. Condi range is 900 for the most part. Condi build doesn’t run a immob other then DS 5 at 600 range. Ranger passive cleansing clears anything the staff puts out. Necro has no reliable gap closers and no escapes.

So kite at 1200, pew pew, collect bag.

Against power necro, if you can maintain range you can win but they have way more movement impairments (cripple on axe/wh, immob on dagger, chill on focus plus DS stuff.) plus very strong dps so if they get close you are done.

I know this because I have logged 800 hours as a ranger, then 1300 as a necro.

Its only BM Bunker I have trouble with them on, which i’m fine with that, Cause otherwise there would be no class giving me trouble on my ranger 1v1..

When I run TB build, I actually don’t have trouble with Necro’s that much… I have enough CC to lock them down and kill them..but yea BM bunker is weak to them right now

I should stress condition necro, i eat Power Necros pretty badly.

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

This is me playing my Thief with a glass cannon build.

Note, I’m not even fully tweaked out with it.

Wild.3847:

>>>The pet and spirit STEAL BOONS which is terrible.

pets dont steal boons at all, they have a lower priority at getting buffs then players.
maybe it used to be true in 2012, but its 2014 now.

yes but the priority seems to be like this;

Party member
Party Pet
Ally
Allied Pet

Thats what issue is about

SilverWF.4789:

SkylightMoon.1980:

In excess they are pretty annoying, but having 1 or 2 running with you can be extremely useful. They can cleave pretty heavily with the greatsword or keep up pulsing cripple with spike trap, muddy ground, or barrage. Not to mention the immobilize on entangle and muddy ground is probably the most annoying situation to be stuck at in game, since they pulse.

Coz most of rangers, especially “Champion Hunters in Zerk gear”, are more than pointless for WvW-raid.
period.

Any profession played by a PvE Hero with zerker armor have no place in WvW. They will just rally people anyway, doesn’t matter if its a warrio, necro, engineer, guardian ,ranger, thief, elementalist or mesmer, the choice of profession will only delay your rallybotting by 2 seconds at most. But you’d still rallybot.

Shadowresli.3782:

@ Fenrir: name some wvw-guilds respected by the wvw community (like RG, VotF, etc.) that run with a ranger in their setup.
Unless you do so, you are just a rangerlover with no sense on reality!

RG did:
http://youtu.be/lej85Rb3fMU?t=13m10s

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

What kind of build are you running ?

Jocksy.3415:

Shadowresli.3782:

@ Fenrir: name some wvw-guilds respected by the wvw community (like RG, VotF, etc.) that run with a ranger in their setup.
Unless you do so, you are just a rangerlover with no sense on reality!

RG did:
http://youtu.be/lej85Rb3fMU?t=13m10s

Thanks, i know this. If someone in our guild absolutly wants to run with a ranger, he has to consider this video.

But it’s from september 2013, and since then there was a big balance patch. I also follow chemsorlys twitch regularly, and as far as i’ve seen, godspeed raided with his guardian thus far

Please let me know what servers and what guilds kick members for being killed by a ranger. I would very much like to spend a little time there.

Seriously, a ranger can kill any class as can any class kill a ranger. You are a fool to think that you never could die to a ranger. You may kill a ranger far more than they kill you, but if I understand correctly, the rule is if you EVER die to a ranger.

I’ll take that bet any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Rangers are not NO Powered. They are VERY MUCH Under-Powered.

Terravos.4059:

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkmR2hv8koY

This is me playing my Thief with a glass cannon build.

Note, I’m not even fully tweaked out with it.

And your point is?

Everyone knows that thiefs have huge burst potential with d/d but how often do you think: “Ooh there’s a ranger with a bear and a longbow, better get ready for his deadly arrow fire that can down me with 2 shots.”

atheria.2837:

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

What kind of build are you running ?

I asked already and was answered further up on this page.

Wvw guilds have fixed templates. There every class/spec has to justify itself against it’s competitors.
1. Melee ranger: It requires a double guard party for stability, so it competes against warriors. Gs is nice and all, but provides no cc. Both flurry and hammer have it’s weaknesses, but they are still essential to a melee train.

2. Caster pressure: Why would you pick it over a thief? It’s also the natural role for necros and mesmers in between their aoe bursts. Most casters in guilds run pvt heavy, so you won’t burst them down.

It might be “good enough” for a zerg where you don’t compete with anybody, but for fixed templates they just don’t provide enough. The only useful utility is muddy terrain, which is great and all, but it’s just not enough.
Just be happy with a class that is good in pve, spvp and small scale wvw.

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. Other actually think and try to find ways to improve every class and gameplay.
Just because you don’t know the class doesn’t mean it sucks. Have you got a ranger ? Have you tried melee signet builds ? Have you tried shout/support builds ? Have you tried condi/bunker builds ? Have you tried to come up with new gameplay ideas ?
No, probably not. You just read a post saying rangers sucked and decided to jump in the bandwagon…

I’m in a t1 server consistently being in the top servers and spent most of my time in wvw. I’m not a “ranger lover” or whatever, i used to play thief and happened to like the ranger more than it or my warrior so i always try to find ways to improve the effectiveness of my ranger for my guild. I eventually switch to warrior when needed (ie when there are not enough of them for a raid) but raid much more with my ranger. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

Fenrir.6183:

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. Other actually think and try to find ways to improve every class and gameplay.

Skill based guilds build templates and evolve them because the strength of the unit is greater than the strength of the individual. A blind Guardian isn’t going to do well outside of a carefully constructed party, but that party can be a beast with one.

This does not mean every class is suitable for skill group play. In most cases, a class is left out because it doesn’t synergize well with they style of play. In the case of a Ranger, the class mechanics do not perform well in WvW and other classes do XYZ role better than a Ranger.

Fenrir.6183:

I’m in a t1 server consistently being in the top servers and spent most of my time in wvw. I’m not a “ranger lover” or whatever, i used to play thief and happened to like the ranger more than it or my warrior so i always try to find ways to improve the effectiveness of my ranger for my guild. I eventually switch to warrior when needed (ie when there are not enough of them for a raid) but raid much more with my ranger. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

Few if any here are assailing Ranger player skill. This isn’t about player skill. This is about a poor performing class. Doesn’t mean it cannot be viable and even played well. It does mean that it has to be played extremely well to be competitive because it does not have an optimal build in any circumstance in my experience. Prior to the many nerfs, Ranger had some decent options but ANet has neutered the pet and at crapped on two of its one time better weapons.

Fenrir.6183:

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

Most serious guilds use a flexible balanced comp, which always excludes rangers. This is because other profs can do everything the ranger can, but better. For example if you want mass cc, just get a staff ele. He’ll give u soft and hard cc, two water fields, massive aoe deeps and more survivability.

I’m glad you think you’re doing well, but this thread isn’t about you.

Fenrir.6183:

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. Other actually think and try to find ways to improve every class and gameplay.
Just because you don’t know the class doesn’t mean it sucks. Have you got a ranger ? Have you tried melee signet builds ? Have you tried shout/support builds ? Have you tried condi/bunker builds ? Have you tried to come up with new gameplay ideas ?
No, probably not. You just read a post saying rangers sucked and decided to jump in the bandwagon…

I’m in a t1 server consistently being in the top servers and spent most of my time in wvw. I’m not a “ranger lover” or whatever, i used to play thief and happened to like the ranger more than it or my warrior so i always try to find ways to improve the effectiveness of my ranger for my guild. I eventually switch to warrior when needed (ie when there are not enough of them for a raid) but raid much more with my ranger. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

First off, no i don’t have great experience on my ranger. But i’ve played wvw (in organized guilds for the greatest part) since the headstart. So for my judgement i’m reliant on experience, theory crafting and the verdict of players with extensive experience on ranger.
That being said, what’s your point besides insulting me? That you believe ranger is viable? Seriously, condi bunker?
I was talking about raid guilds of 15+ that try to min max at every opportunity.

Monkeymonger.9235:

Wvw guilds have fixed templates. There every class/spec has to justify itself against it’s competitors.
1. Melee ranger: It requires a double guard party for stability, so it competes against warriors. Gs is nice and all, but provides no cc. Both flurry and hammer have it’s weaknesses, but they are still essential to a melee train.

2. Caster pressure: Why would you pick it over a thief? It’s also the natural role for necros and mesmers in between their aoe bursts. Most casters in guilds run pvt heavy, so you won’t burst them down.

It might be “good enough” for a zerg where you don’t compete with anybody, but for fixed templates they just don’t provide enough. The only useful utility is muddy terrain, which is great and all, but it’s just not enough.
Just be happy with a class that is good in pve, spvp and small scale wvw.

I run a build that can burst “casters”, tank on the frontline, has enough stability to be in a all necro ele party (well, we had a horrible party setup for our first few runs that evening, Need moar guardians, end of).
There is no secret to the build, no magic, all it takes is to use your head and BUILD the ranger accordingly to the stats you need. So yeah, a warrior can get the same build but without the AOE fury, immobilize and swiftness spam but with 9k more HP. However the warrior has a bigger healthpool by default, so that is a design difference. However if you spec yourself right, you go for maximum damage, maximum armor, maximum crit chance and crit damage, high HP and strong utility, then yes, you can walk around on the frontlines effortlessly. FYI, against light or medium armored targets my bursts can hit for around 5.3k and it is a cleaving attack. Pretty much the same or a tiny tiny bit higher then most warrior metabuilds i see.

However, like i said earlier, and it was seconded by another Ranger. The exact build cannot be shared, as it is a guild raid build.

Perhaps, one of you will see me use it if you ever face INVI from Desolation.

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

mistsim.2748:

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

I play in T2/3 EU. Desolation is a former T1 server, but lost many of its big guilds, the leagues didn’t help either, and are still rebuilding from this. So no, i don’t play in very low tier as you seem to assume.

Your knowledge of rangers seem somewhat limited, as you would have known that SB didn’t get the proper attack rate from quickness before the nerf. A bug with the animation/casting made it slightly slower then it should have been. There was attempts to fix this, but they didn’t work out very well.

My build isn’t an assassins build, its a frontline 20-30 man guildgroup melee build. Not some farfetched ranged assassin.

SB is horrible when it comes to power gear, while it was better then LB before LB Buff, it is now extremely inferior in terms of direct damage.

If you want burst assassin, get quickness and signet build using Signet of the Wild and entangle to make sure all your sword strikes hit. Yes sword mainhand, which happens to be the strongest weapon rangers got.

Please tell me how often you manage to read a single ranger coming at you with a GS, poised to use Maul, in a zergfest? Hell, make a video of it so i can see whether or not you actually have the slightest of chance to spot a single profession coming at you with a burst in the midst of a zergball full of particle effects and chaos.

mistsim.2748:

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

Here in EU, I have seen many guilds do smaller GvGs (15v15 and lower) who use rangers as backline harrasment forces. If the ranger knows what he is doing then he can be effective, it’s EASIER on a different class, but no more effective if you play the ranger correctly.

mistsim.2748:

Fenrir.6183:

Dumb wvw guilds might have fixed templates. And as far as it goes, i’m doing pretty good.

Most serious guilds use a flexible balanced comp, which always excludes rangers. This is because other profs can do everything the ranger can, but better. For example if you want mass cc, just get a staff ele. He’ll give u soft and hard cc, two water fields, massive aoe deeps and more survivability.

I’m glad you think you’re doing well, but this thread isn’t about you.

No, i know it’s not about me, i couldn’t care less what people think of me on internet. What i do care about is trying to have a real debate on wether or not the ranger can be useful enough to be integrated in “core” guild raids in wvw. And i do believe with the right build, it can. As i said earlier, we are very effective at CC (immobilize/cripple/chill) and that can really turn a fight around due to the high number of targets we can affect.
And aside from that, i’ve rarely seen balanced gvg fights (ie fights with the same numbers on each side) so what usually matters the most is not dying rather than having the perfect setup. And for that, i find that the ranger’s CC is much more appropriate than the typical shout warrior…those hammer stuns do take some time to cast and you don’t have the range the ranger has on his CC. So yeah, he has other purposes, more hp and the condi removal shouts but the ranger has its uses as well.
And from my experience, the warrior does not do more damage skillwise (i’m talking about a hammer/sword warhorn warrior here).

Monkeymonger.9235:

First off, no i don’t have great experience on my ranger. But i’ve played wvw (in organized guilds for the greatest part) since the headstart. So for my judgement i’m reliant on experience, theory crafting and the verdict of players with extensive experience on ranger.
That being said, what’s your point besides insulting me? That you believe ranger is viable? Seriously, condi bunker?
I was talking about raid guilds of 15+ that try to min max at every opportunity.

Sorry if you thought i was insulting you, i’m not. Yeah, i mentionned condi bunker as being one of the good ranger builds but not necessarily for wvw. What i meant is you have to know everything about a class before eventually discarding it. For instance, while i do know enough about the warrior, i couldn’t talk too much about the guardian. I do have one but haven’t played enough to know the class so well that i can theorycraft on it or discuss the utility of a skill in each build. I can however do this for the ranger because i’ve played it a lot since start and am on a T1 top server.

Prysin.8542:

mistsim.2748:

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

I play in T2/3 EU. Desolation is a former T1 server, but lost many of its big guilds, the leagues didn’t help either, and are still rebuilding from this. So no, i don’t play in very low tier as you seem to assume.

Your knowledge of rangers seem somewhat limited, as you would have known that SB didn’t get the proper attack rate from quickness before the nerf. A bug with the animation/casting made it slightly slower then it should have been. There was attempts to fix this, but they didn’t work out very well.

My build isn’t an assassins build, its a frontline 20-30 man guildgroup melee build. Not some farfetched ranged assassin.

SB is horrible when it comes to power gear, while it was better then LB before LB Buff, it is now extremely inferior in terms of direct damage.

If you want burst assassin, get quickness and signet build using Signet of the Wild and entangle to make sure all your sword strikes hit. Yes sword mainhand, which happens to be the strongest weapon rangers got.

Please tell me how often you manage to read a single ranger coming at you with a GS, poised to use Maul, in a zergfest? Hell, make a video of it so i can see whether or not you actually have the slightest of chance to spot a single profession coming at you with a burst in the midst of a zergball full of particle effects and chaos.

Actually I don’t think Mistsim’s knowledge about ranger is limited and i’m pretty sure he remembers the so called animation glitch/fix pretty well.

The thing is that back then, when he was showcasing what i’ll call the “quickness power build” ,which was pretty good and fun btw ( not “A-net fun” but still^^) :

- Quickness was 100% and not 50%
- We had the minor beastmaster trait giving us quickness on pet swap
- SB Range was 1200

As i agree that the animation fix was irritating, it’s not what killed the quickness ranger it’s every nerf around…

Jos.8793:

Prysin.8542:

mistsim.2748:

Prysin you either have a very vivid imagination young man, or play at a very low tier. No serious gvg guild will use a periphery ranger. They can give it a shot but there is no reason to keep using one. GS shatter mes, glass thief, dps warrior with hammer/gs or even rifle fulfill the assassin role much more effectively. All these specs output more cc and more single target damage while having better survivability.

I ran various quickness based builds before the nerf and showcased an effective sb power build. But these builds aren’t viable now. Other profs output way more single target damage. GS isn’t viable either because its burst is too telegraphed.

I play in T2/3 EU. Desolation is a former T1 server, but lost many of its big guilds, the leagues didn’t help either, and are still rebuilding from this. So no, i don’t play in very low tier as you seem to assume.

Your knowledge of rangers seem somewhat limited, as you would have known that SB didn’t get the proper attack rate from quickness before the nerf. A bug with the animation/casting made it slightly slower then it should have been. There was attempts to fix this, but they didn’t work out very well.

My build isn’t an assassins build, its a frontline 20-30 man guildgroup melee build. Not some farfetched ranged assassin.

SB is horrible when it comes to power gear, while it was better then LB before LB Buff, it is now extremely inferior in terms of direct damage.

If you want burst assassin, get quickness and signet build using Signet of the Wild and entangle to make sure all your sword strikes hit. Yes sword mainhand, which happens to be the strongest weapon rangers got.

Please tell me how often you manage to read a single ranger coming at you with a GS, poised to use Maul, in a zergfest? Hell, make a video of it so i can see whether or not you actually have the slightest of chance to spot a single profession coming at you with a burst in the midst of a zergball full of particle effects and chaos.

Actually I don’t think Mistsim’s knowledge about ranger is limited and i’m pretty sure he remembers the so called animation glitch/fix pretty well.

The thing is that back then, when he was showcasing what i’ll call the “quickness power build” ,which was pretty good and fun btw ( not “A-net fun” but still^^) :

- Quickness was 100% and not 50%
- We had the minor beastmaster trait giving us quickness on pet swap
- SB Range was 1200

As i agree that the animation fix was irritating, it’s not what killed the quickness ranger it’s every nerf around…

Dude, i played Ranger way before the quickness nerf. I too thought it was the end of the world when they did it, turn out, it was only the end of SB powerbuilds and LB instakills.

Rangers are awesome in small mans

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.

Straegen.2938:

warriorjrd.8695:

20 rangers vs 20 warriors would probably end in the ranger’s favour simply due to fields and support. Sure ranger may not have the best support, but it’s better than a warrior’s simply because of healing spring. This is still a bad comparison however, you will never have 20 set classes going against another 20. Although if that were to happen, engi and ranger would probably fight for first place simply because they can do everything.

Non-Signet Rangers only have one native stability and it is on a LONG cool down. A pack of rangers is a dinner bell for Hammer warriors.

Warriors have WAY better support than Rangers… it isn’t even close. Shout warriors group heal, remove conditions, convert conditions to boons, have a MASSIVE amount of control, are effectively immune to immobilize, best passive healing in the game, banner group rez, stack might, they don’t have to stop for healing, come to the fight with over 30k HP and nearly 4k armor. Their sustained DPS is impressive as well. There is a reason the backbone of almost every group of players is the Warrior and Guardian.

Must be those 30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with Legendary armor and trinkets.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.

You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.

By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.

Prysin.8542:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Taku.6352:

KyreneZA.8617:

Prysin.8542:

7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.

Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.

This was before ascended weapons and armors.

Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.

You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.

By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.

I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.