Guild Wars 2

How are those of us who primarily play WVW and participate in the forums supposed to interpret that?

Yes, I know they post every great once in awhile, but it’s never about gameplay or to communicate with us about changes, plans, direction. Even some freaking encouragement that they are thinking about this game mode, or at least reading the darn threads would be great!

Throw me a bone here ANet. I love your game but there are issues, and it would be great to know that there is SOME kind of activity going on behind the scenes. If there’s not, if you’re focused somewhere else, tell me THAT too!!

ARGH.

oneply nailed it pretty much. It would be different if the devs weren’t posting ANYWHERE, but they do.

I’m sympathetic a little bit to the “just work on the game” thing but MMOs are a long-term time investment by design on the part of the companies that make them, and GW2 is no different. If you expect players to invest time over the long term then you kind of have to keep communicating.

The forums are player driven content.

I ask myself the same question too, or did. At this point it should be pretty clear to all of us how much time and energy Anet plans on investing in this mode, essentially nothing. WvW is a sandbox gamemode which probably exists in essence to provide developers and other employees with a logical time to take vacation (during seasons) from the living story. The existence of a competitive form of WvW, and further GvG, runs counter to the plan to make pvp a sponsor attracting game mode due to the fact it would siphon competitive players away from the mode into which they’ve sunk the larger part of their investment.

Employees don’t answer here because, despite personal views which may contradict their employer, their company is publicly traded and undermining the confidence in their product will only threaten the parent company’s bottom line which is somewhat a function of the perception of customer contentment, and get them transferred or fired.

Any positive changes that come about in the game will likely need to be spearheaded by players taking the initiative to correct things people are displeased about. However, due to the prevalence of human apathy, anonymity, and the F2P structure, there is little motivation by players in a general sense, and our expectations about whether players will right the ship should reflect that.

The devs are most likely in EOTM…

It’s the same issue with the class forums. If you want to discuss balance or class changes, you need to visit the PvP forums. If you want to talk about nonsense, lore, or PvE/dungeons, you visit to general forums.

Now does this mean they don’t care about WvW? I don’t know if I’d go that far…

But when you add on the numerous other problems WvW suffers from ANet sure does like to give the impression that WvW isn’t a concern for them.

i’d be curious to see the numbers of how many players participate in WvW compared to PvP

oneply.9586:

i’d be curious to see the numbers of how many players participate in WvW compared to PvP

1 year ago the numbers were vastly in favor of WvW I would say like 10x more players in WvW

People are burnt out of WvW these days but I still think it is maybe 2x the PvP population

More people are trying PvP since the update to the system and addition of reward tracks as well

Narkodx.1472:

oneply.9586:

i’d be curious to see the numbers of how many players participate in WvW compared to PvP

1 year ago the numbers were vastly in favor of WvW I would say like 10x more players in WvW

People are burnt out of WvW these days but I still think it is maybe 2x the PvP population

More people are trying PvP since the update to the system and addition of reward tracks as well

i will never understand Devs then….why so much time is wasted on the minority of gamers….
and idk if more people are PvPing in the last few weeks. i see ALOT of the same names over and over again.

oneply.9586:

i will never understand Devs then….why so much time is wasted on the minority of gamers….
and idk if more people are PvPing in the last few weeks. i see ALOT of the same names over and over again.

Because if they didn’t we would have no updates for anything other than PvE, since both WvW and PvP are minorities.

They did spend a year or so on Edge of the Mists, and what did that get them? Just more rage and hatred.

lordkrall.7241:

Because if they didn’t we would have no updates for anything other than PvE, since both WvW and PvP are minorities.

They did spend a year or so on Edge of the Mists, and what did that get them? Just more rage and hatred.

EotM release was before my time.
What was the rage even about? was it legit? did they do anything to compensate this?

and the overwhelming majority of updates are PvE already. and who knows how much time was wasted on the latest pvp patch that has only made spvp worse. but even still if you base it off of participation, pve takes precedent (i would argue thats only because it is kind of forced/pushed on you), then wvw, then pvp. i know they have pipe dreams of their pvp becoming a legit esport but thats not going to ever happen without massive changes. so why not invest in what you have a greater number of players participating in? im not saying that all their attention should go towards it, but certainly more than whats given to pvp.

plus if they didnt give rewards that benefit outside of spvp, i have a feeling pvp would be pretty much dead. they are literally bribing people to come pvp.

Every time I see “throw me a bone” in print, I always hear it in Dr. Evil’s voice.

Black Frog.9274:

Every time I see “throw me a bone” in print, I always hear it in Dr. Evil’s voice.

I typed it in his voice too :P

Only time I have ever really seen any moderators or devs in the WvW section of the forums is when they lock threads or are banning me for suggesting that they
1: have no idea how to fix WvW
2: Don’t really care about the fact that WvW is steadily dying off
&
3: Leave WvW the way it is because they get money from transfers of people who get so hopeless with their server situation that they quit or pay for a better outcome.

oneply.9586:

EotM release was before my time.
What was the rage even about? was it legit? did they do anything to compensate this?

They had semi-open beta for EotM where guilds could apply for access. Said beta went on for quite some time, and rather many things changed based on the feedback.

When the map was released (with the changes made due to feedback) people raged like mad about how that was not what they wanted at all and that it was the worst thing ever and that ArenaNet are useless and can’t do anything at all right. Despite them doing exactly what people in the beta said.

Yep, exactly what like 0.1% of wvw players asked for.

How could that ever go wrong?

lordkrall.7241:

oneply.9586:

EotM release was before my time.
What was the rage even about? was it legit? did they do anything to compensate this?

They had semi-open beta for EotM where guilds could apply for access. Said beta went on for quite some time, and rather many things changed based on the feedback.

When the map was released (with the changes made due to feedback) people raged like mad about how that was not what they wanted at all and that it was the worst thing ever and that ArenaNet are useless and can’t do anything at all right. Despite them doing exactly what people in the beta said.

As I recall it ended up being mainly sPvP guilds that were invited to test out EOTM, hence why so many WvW players complained about it when it was released.

sPvP =/= WvW

So why didn’t the WvW guilds apply? Or do you really suggest that ArenaNet knowingly invited sPvP guilds over WvW guilds?

It also makes rather little sense, seeing as what people mainly complain about when it comes to EotM is that it is too much PvE, which most likely wouldn’t really be the case if it was based around sPvP-feedback.

I can answer this, because Gaile probably doesnt play WvW

X T D.6458:

I can answer this, because Gaile probably doesnt play WvW

This was my first thought as well. As she is the main person from Anet that goes around commenting on random threads. I think she got assigned that from people complaining about the lack of communication in the forums.

lordkrall.7241:

They had semi-open beta for EotM where guilds could apply for access. Said beta went on for quite some time, and rather many things changed based on the feedback.

Stop telling lies. I am 100% certain you werent in the beta then.
The beta was about finding bugs of this map. Not about the features of the map. Most notable change that happened due to the beta are most of the fences you see around there so you dont get knocked off so easily.

When the map was released (with the changes made due to feedback) people raged like mad about how that was not what they wanted at all…

When the map was released people wanted a new WvW map. Since EotM isnt connected to WvW in any way apart from some supply for the green servers, its simply not a WvW map. Instead Anet gave the map ridiculus rewards and created a Karma train map.

…and that it was the worst thing ever and that ArenaNet are useless and can’t do anything at all right. Despite them doing exactly what people in the beta said.

Not gonna argue about Anets capabilities, I know you are their unofficial PR man.
But kitten , you are so wrong about what happeened in the beta of EotM, its not even funny.

No one left on the WvW section. That is why there is no anet presence in this forum.
Only their unofficial PR man as you can see above trying his best.

X T D.6458:

I can answer this, because Gaile probably doesnt play WvW

There are more GM’s playing wvw that most think, they dont always run with anet tag on.

Aeolus.3615:

X T D.6458:

I can answer this, because Gaile probably doesnt play WvW

There are more GM’s playing wvw that most think, they dont always run with anet tag on.

Source?

oneply.9586:

Narkodx.1472:

oneply.9586:

i’d be curious to see the numbers of how many players participate in WvW compared to PvP

1 year ago the numbers were vastly in favor of WvW I would say like 10x more players in WvW

People are burnt out of WvW these days but I still think it is maybe 2x the PvP population

More people are trying PvP since the update to the system and addition of reward tracks as well

i will never understand Devs then….why so much time is wasted on the minority of gamers….
and idk if more people are PvPing in the last few weeks. i see ALOT of the same names over and over again.

Because they marketed this game as “E-Sports” since before headstart.

E-Sports bring sponsors, money and free marketing.

ALL HAIL THE E-SPORTS!

If we all start heaping absurd amount of praise on every single thing they do regarding wvw their presence will grow exponentially. Think constant threads extolling their virtues to the highest heavens. For weeks on end. Then from time to time, albeit very infrequently, we slip in a complaint concern. But be very careful how it is done. Make sure the concern is proceeded and followed by massive heaps of praise.

X T D.6458:

I can answer this, because Gaile probably doesnt play WvW

Apparently one of my guildies caught sight of Gaile in WvW for a few seconds about a week ago. Anet tag and all.

The “Season 1 Reward” sticky thread was removed recently—PROGRESS.

P.S. Never did get my season 1 rewards

lordkrall.7241:

oneply.9586:

i will never understand Devs then….why so much time is wasted on the minority of gamers….
and idk if more people are PvPing in the last few weeks. i see ALOT of the same names over and over again.

They did spend a year or so on Edge of the Mists, and what did that get them? Just more rage and hatred.

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

The devs barely comment in any of the forums.. they certainly aren’t going to spend all that much time in the forum for an abandoned game mode like WvW. If they were going to fix it, they would have before most of the lower tier servers imploded. WvW is the Humpty-Dumpty of this game…. unfortunately.

Slomo.1029:

lordkrall.7241:

They had semi-open beta for EotM where guilds could apply for access. Said beta went on for quite some time, and rather many things changed based on the feedback.

Stop telling lies. I am 100% certain you werent in the beta then.
The beta was about finding bugs of this map. Not about the features of the map. Most notable change that happened due to the beta are most of the fences you see around there so you dont get knocked off so easily.

+1 to this. Stop using EoTM beta as an example. It was entirely a bug-checking exercise.

The design of the map remained completely un-changed, despite feedback being given that the map design constricted movement and forced 1-directional PvD blob play.

Ragnar.4257:

Slomo.1029:

lordkrall.7241:

They had semi-open beta for EotM where guilds could apply for access. Said beta went on for quite some time, and rather many things changed based on the feedback.

Stop telling lies. I am 100% certain you werent in the beta then.
The beta was about finding bugs of this map. Not about the features of the map. Most notable change that happened due to the beta are most of the fences you see around there so you dont get knocked off so easily.

+1 to this. Stop using EoTM beta as an example. It was entirely a bug-checking exercise.

The design of the map remained completely un-changed, despite feedback being given that the map design constricted movement and forced 1-directional PvD blob play.

LOL the truth… oh it hurts… it hurts so much when I laugh! The devs collect a ton of feedback, the forums, CDIs, EotM beta…. they collect it all and file it straight into the garbage can!!

“why are there no devs on the forum?”

“why is WvW not developed?”

Spend 1 year developing a map that is very different, varied and has some interesting ideas. See responses like this:

Kanebrake.6192:

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

never again!

Zenith.6403:

“why are there no devs on the forum?”

“why is WvW not developed?”

Spend 1 year developing a map that is very different, varied and has some interesting ideas. See responses like this:

Kanebrake.6192:

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

never again!

have you not paid attention to the pvp forum that has been a non stop insult the devs fest since dec 2nd? yet at least Justin is still there answering.

Zenith.6403:

“why are there no devs on the forum?”

“why is WvW not developed?”

Spend 1 year developing a map that is very different, varied and has some interesting ideas. See responses like this:

Kanebrake.6192:

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

never again!

I love fanbois. Spend a year making a map without any input from the players, bug test it, continue to ignore players, release it, proclaim new WvW content that is just more PvE content in reality, ignore players, see hundreds of negative posts about it, ignore players, do nothing in WvW.

Never again? really? How a bout “not gonna start”. You let me know when the devs START doing something for WvW.

oneply.9586:

Zenith.6403:

“why are there no devs on the forum?”

“why is WvW not developed?”

Spend 1 year developing a map that is very different, varied and has some interesting ideas. See responses like this:

Kanebrake.6192:

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

never again!

have you not paid attention to the pvp forum that has been a non stop insult the devs fest since dec 2nd? yet at least Justin is still there answering.

I love the ridiculousness of this thought process.

Paraphrasing this here: ’ Uh, er, um, well they let one particular dev get verbally abused, by rude people, in an entirely different sub forums, about a different game mode entirely. there fore, they should force WvW devs in here to be verbally abused by those who have already proven they can spam similarly rude comments "

Tspatula.9086:

I love fanbois. Spend a year making a map without any input from the players, bug test it, continue to ignore players, release it, proclaim new WvW content that is just more PvE content in reality, ignore players, see hundreds of negative posts about it, ignore players, do nothing in WvW.

Never again? really? How a bout “not gonna start”. You let me know when the devs START doing something for WvW.

Thats all false. They added more choke points, various mechanics and destructible bridges, all specifically requested on the forums, as well as about 20 other specifically requested aspects.

just because they didn’t add what you agree with doesn’t mean they ignored the players, they simply went with what they felt was most popular ot that appealed to them.

coglin.1867:

they simply went with what…. appealed to them.

BINGO!!

coglin.1867:

oneply.9586:

Zenith.6403:

“why are there no devs on the forum?”

“why is WvW not developed?”

Spend 1 year developing a map that is very different, varied and has some interesting ideas. See responses like this:

Kanebrake.6192:

Undeniably well deserved “rage and hatred” because eotm is garbage.

never again!

have you not paid attention to the pvp forum that has been a non stop insult the devs fest since dec 2nd? yet at least Justin is still there answering.

I love the ridiculousness of this thought process.

Paraphrasing this here: ’ Uh, er, um, well they let one particular dev get verbally abused, by rude people, in an entirely different sub forums, about a different game mode entirely. there fore, they should force WvW devs in here to be verbally abused by those who have already proven they can spam similarly rude comments "

actually i dont think Justin gets verbal abused personally by anyone. and sentiment seems to be that Justin is the one dev in pvp that actually cares about the players. most hatred is directed at anet the entity.

also trivializing an argument is a really weak stance to take.

Oh theres the anet presence, locking threads!

lordkrall.7241:

When the map was released (with the changes made due to feedback) people raged like mad about how that was not what they wanted at all and that it was the worst thing ever and that ArenaNet are useless and can’t do anything at all right. Despite them doing exactly what people in the beta said.

Maybe you should hide your obvious and glaring bias against WvW a little bit better if you want to pretend that you have anything useful to say. People raged more about the New Player Experience and the Trait changes (and they still do) than anything about EotM.

Yes, people “raged” about EotM, but it was constructive things like fixing the unbalanced nature of how Green had an advantage for months after the launch of EotM, or fixing glaring balance issues of the asymmetrical nature of the map. None of which have been addressed, by the way.

Well, listen, Justin O’Dell is very active on the PVP forums and more power to him. Maybe he’s really into forums. IDK. This doesn’t have anything to do with him, really.

I mean I’m being a little selfish in that I posted an idea the other day that had a lot of convo, lot of positive feedback from others and stuff, and it would have been kind of cool if there was a dev around who could say, “Yeah neat. Not saying we’ll implement it ever, but neat!” Just to, like, effing acknowledge the conversation. So yes I’m whining a little bit.

But there are a lot of threads on here. People with good ideas who put a lot of effort into writing them up and so forth. I mean if nothing else just someone to “show the flag” for ANet and participate in the convo would be cool. I know for sure there are ANet employees who play this game mode, tagged or not. So why not say hi or something?

I dunno what the problem is. There have been post on here with in the last 3 days.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Ingame-GMs-do-they-exist/page/3#post4647825

You act as if the sky is falling simply because it isn’t on the front page.

If you want a dev post to stay on the front page, then everyone needs to stop spamming redundant threads, daily, demanding more dev post. It ironically buries the recent dev post.

It is almost comical how poster spam over top of each other remaking the same thread because they feel their voice is too important to go onto on of the many existing threads on the exact same topic. Then when these repeat after repeat after repeat threads bury dev post, everyone acts as if they never existed.

How many pages back did you look? As this moment, the 3 day old dev post was on the 2nd page.

Oh and by the way. Steaming Piles of uninformed mushroom food such as this thread bellow, are a reason I would avoid the forums as a dev.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Cheating-Dev/first

I mean you have a clown trying too look cool by making false claims and spreading misinformation simply because several devs got online to mix with the players and test and train on some new dev features.

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

coglin.1867:

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

Really? What a surprise!! by the way, Michael H. isn’t a developer, he is game support. He is doesn’t have ANYTHING to do making changes to WvW. nice try though… Do you even play WvW?

Tspatula.9086:

coglin.1867:

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

Really? What a surprise!! by the way, Michael H. isn’t a developer, he is game support. He is doesn’t have ANYTHING to do making changes to WvW. nice try though… Do you even play WvW?

You should do some research before you make claims. He absolutely does participate in what occurs in wvw and the decision s the evil be it. Look it up.

post like the one you just made though are precisely why he may rue being hear at all. Good job at being part of the provlem and not the solution sir.

coglin.1867:

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

Had the devs actively communicated with us and actually cared about the WvW game mode, this sub forum would have never become this toxic.

@OP:

You need to understand the history of this channel. This forum was pretty toxic in late 2013. ANET had a vision for WvW and the ANET lead told the people on this forum that they do not represent what WvW people want. That didn’t go over well. ANET decided to show everyone here that they knew better.

The result was launching EotM. It was the very best of the ANET WvW lead’s idea. They were all excited when the map rolled out. Unfortunately WvW players shunned the map and instead it turned out to be the best PvE karma train map in the game.

The WvW lead went away after that. Not sure if he got reassigned or is just in hiding, but he hasn’t been visible at all.

Deli.1302:

coglin.1867:

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

Had the devs actively communicated with us and actually cared about the WvW game mode, this sub forum would have never become this toxic.

I can only guess that you are reasonably new. As a poster who has participated in these forums since launch, I saw no more or less toxic behavior here at release then now. And even though it is against the forums CoC every other clown did the same thing they do now, and make threads in which the title calls out specific teams, Anet, dev, or even specific names, just as today.

style.6173:

@OP:

You need to understand the history of this channel. This forum was pretty toxic in late 2013. ANET had a vision for WvW and the ANET lead told the people on this forum that they do not represent what WvW people want. That didn’t go over well. ANET decided to show everyone here that they knew better.

The result was launching EotM. It was the very best of the ANET WvW lead’s idea. They were all excited when the map rolled out. Unfortunately WvW players shunned the map and instead it turned out to be the best PvE karma train map in the game.

The WvW lead went away after that. Not sure if he got reassigned or is just in hiding, but he hasn’t been visible at all.

Most of this is a bit of a load…….EotM has all of the aspects the major threads at the time were crying for. Everyone was demanding some type of general overflow for WvW due to queues. Then the forums were arguing over choke points and weather effects, and bridges. So they gave the squabblers exactly what they remade threads on over and over. now the same squabblers cry because they got exactly what they cried for, and it turned out not to be what they wanted.

I have to agree to a point that a lot wvw threads do contain tons of toxic posts both past and present, and I have noticed many times they really post more on threads the topic is less controversial and not open for criticisms and angry replies. But on the other hand WvW is a part of the game, and it does look rather odd to have so little dev/anet attention on these forums. I mean its one of the 3 gamemodes and it only has 1 sticky thread.

coglin.1867:

I dunno what the problem is. There have been post on here with in the last 3 days.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Ingame-GMs-do-they-exist/page/3#post4647825

You act as if the sky is falling simply because it isn’t on the front page.

If you want a dev post to stay on the front page, then everyone needs to stop spamming redundant threads, daily, demanding more dev post. It ironically buries the recent dev post.

It is almost comical how poster spam over top of each other remaking the same thread because they feel their voice is too important to go onto on of the many existing threads on the exact same topic. Then when these repeat after repeat after repeat threads bury dev post, everyone acts as if they never existed.

How many pages back did you look? As this moment, the 3 day old dev post was on the 2nd page.

Oh and by the way. Steaming Piles of uninformed mushroom food such as this thread bellow, are a reason I would avoid the forums as a dev.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Cheating-Dev/first

I mean you have a clown trying too look cool by making false claims and spreading misinformation simply because several devs got online to mix with the players and test and train on some new dev features.

Personally I feel posters need to stop blaming the devs for avoiding the community, and start blaming the community and the fact that it makes threads like the one I linked.

I’m glad someone came in and linked the 2 topics I mentioned. Both topics had nothing to do with any sort of suggestions or changes to WvW. So you’re proving the point of this thread that devs don’t have a presence apart from ‘steaming piles of mushroom food’ topics.

Fistarius.2496:

The devs are most likely in EOTM…

Is quite possible as the player base has very little information on which servers have the developer population. Up until the adopt a dev I was of the assumption that most (with any design influence) played on tier 1 or tier 2.