Guild Wars 2

xXTattsXx.4361:

Congrats on the influx of guilds freshly joining in on Kain because they couldn’t hack it in a higher bracket. I truly hope that you all do well but going from barely holding on to slingshot where you are isn’t really an accomplishment in my opinion.. you did have to work for it.. you guys got good transfers.

what’s next?

“BREAK UP KAEINING!” posts?!

:O

We ‘slingshotted’ from 24th to 23rd….

I can fully understand your righteous hatred of this unprecedented and unfair example of coattail-riding, ridiculously rapid advancement.

You know, I guess you’re a natural blogger. Always gotta type something, apparently. What day did you come here, Kaine? Friday, right? Well in the old days they had a word for guys like you who show up and then pretend they’ve been there all along. CARPETBAGGER!

Now I got no problem with a guy making the most out of his own $60, but think about what you’re doing to the place, son. Yesterday I log in and I didn’t recognize anybody. All these transfers come out to jump on the bandwagon and get their own personalized Mighteous autograph.

It’s gonna get uglier before it gets better. Every flaky person looking for the “best server” is going to show up here and stink up the chat in the process. Everybody is going to do like you did, and tell us all about how it worked on their “winning server.” People are going to get frustrated en masse, and instead of having 2 or 3 brats ruining the game because they’re laying around, you’re gonna have 10 or 20.

Last night I was trying to assault a keep door while listening to two brats talk crap about each others gear! Let’s let the scoreboard talk for a couple of days here. Keep all the fair weather players from bringing their carpet bags on over to Kaineng and stinking the place up.

Why don’t they make transfers available ONLY at the end of a week?

You can queue for the transfer whenever but it will execute the day of or the day before WvW resets.

That way WvW isn’t a rollercoaster all week as people keep transferring all over the place.

First of all, thanks to those who really do appreciate SoS. Behalf of the leader of SoS, I thank to all of those who do recognizes us.

SoS was originally my joke on SoS server *winks*, however, the 3 day head start really killed a lot of Taiwanese players as the servers are always full and was not able to join, and at that that time, SoS is just me and a real life buddy of mine.

One day, Kaineng showed up on the list of available servers, knowing that it was my buddy’s first choice, I told him, "let’s move. " On top of that, for those who have played GW1 should know, Kaineng is an asian-themed city, so I’m expecting a rapid growth of Taiwanese if I were to move over there.

So technically speaking, yes, SoS moved from SoS (wut?), but we actually build our community in Kaineng. Thanks to every day spam (*cough*), we were able to rally more than 750 members (we had to split into two guilds for that), and yes, 95% of them are Taiwanese, some Chinese/Hong Kong/Malaysian, and of course, some from other side of the world that doesn’t mind being in a Chinese community (Although we can still speak English, but most of the time it’s just Chinese text all over guild chat).

SoS started doing WvW was originally to "farm", a lot has the misconception that we are a heavy WvW guild, wrong. We are mostly a PvE guild. The reason behind doing WvW originally, is for the Karma/Exp/Gold train. Those who did WvW should know how much exp you get for capping keep/garrisons, so some people criticize us because once we took over a place, we do not defend at all. To us, we actually enjoy the enemy taking over after we left, so when the train returns, we can cap it again for more gold/karma/exp.

At that time, I am totally aware that Kaineng lack of real NA/EU WvW players other than LaZy (but they moved T.T) to defend, so really there’s no point in defending at all, as quite a few has stated above, it’s a ghost town once we left. There are just some guilds that does not understand that and was whining and said that we are totally useless. Right. We did our part, now have you? (Thank god that particular guild has finally left Kaineng to Devona’s Rest)

SoS has come a long way since launch, we’ve made some great allies, like LaZy, and the evermoor alliances, and many others, but we also made some enemies, like that guild that went to DR, and interestingly, some Taiwanese guilds too (but that’s another story that I will share if someone really feel interested to hear about it :P).

Back to subject, Kaineng can fight like this today is not just because of SoS guild. We are only a small contribution to the whole fight. The glory goes to everyone who believed in Kaineng and fought for it bravely. Give yourself a nice pat on the back if you stepped into WvW for Kaineng today, tomorrow, and beyond, because what you’ve done is contributing to the greater cause for all of the people in Kaineng.

Go Go Kaineng, Let’s win this battle!

GO KAINENG GO!

KAINENG FIGHTING!

There is some pretty unfortunate “Tall Poppy Syndrome” being exhibited here. The moment someone playing on Kaineng makes a post that their server is caning, a few people start complaining about the bragging. It is really a shame – why shouldn’t we celebrate what we feel is an achievement? If it is so odious to those haters, they needn’t click on the thread in the first place.

I agree that the mix of time zones has been a boon – I am in Japan and note the efforts of the East Asian guilds (particularly SOS) in our late evening/early morning. Contrary to what someone claimed above, very few Kaineng players have ever expressed animosity towards them. I think Chaster’s (very candid) post above shows the level of goodwill and co-operation on the server. Why not celebrate that?

Kaineng is no paradise – as evidenced above there is the odd narcissist hater (no names), but as long as their effective in WvW, well, who cares? I’m excited for the next few weeks of WvW.

Literally cool story bro. I love reading underdog stories, although server transfers may have tipped the scales in Kaineng for this one. Either way it is still a major achievement for the blokes who stuck with Kaineng as well as the guilds that transferred over from a winning server.

I, for one, am rooting for you, Sniffles.

Keep up the good fight, young feller. One suggestion I would make, is that you not stand there watching as your team destroys the door. The more damage it takes, the quicker it falls.

You need to be The One, son! Stand in the front, charge the zerg. Every time I see a group of Devona’s I’m disappointed at how easily they flee as if I’m Georgie Porgie and they’re a bunch of little schoolgirls. I imagine them squealing in fear as they scatter like sheep at the sight of the great Mighteous leading yet another charge into their ranks. That’s all that ever happens with Devona’s!

You may be a group of casuals, but does that mean you have to amount to nothing more than speedbumps on Kaineng’s path to victory? I haven’t even been playing in there much, I’m so upset about easy victory, man!

Smarten up, and do it fast. Stealing candy from babies may be rewarding, but it sure as heck isn’t any fun.

and since you’re no longer outnumbered and the great and all-mighty kaineng, can you please get your SoS members to stop coming to DR and ferguson’s to follow around our zergs and commanders? I mean, at least have them take off their guild tags and make it less conspicuous.

…and wouldn’t it be more fun if you weren’t always relaying information where we are ?

SniffyCube.6107:

also… side note :
never had anything really “against” you or your guild…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/A-different-kind-of-Kaineng-War-Report/first#post335672

“I was going to say the opposite, every pvp instance we did SoS has run out or refused to help.”

“The feeling around most of kaineg is we wish they would just leave along with some of the other guilds and let us truly start fresh with committed guilds.”

Likewise, there are a few chats in game about you wanting to leave Kaineng to DR just so you can fight SoS.

SniffyCube.6107:

but you seem to take us moving so personally

I don’t think anyone really cares that you left and I doubt that anyone is taking the move as a personal slight. Some of us just find it odd (and slightly amusing) that you make posts like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Challenge-to-all-Kaineg-players-and-guilds

and then trash the guilds that are participating in WvW, and then simply decide to leave to another server. It sounds like you’re in a better place, and I’m happy for you. People play games for different reasons, and it sounds like you’re having more fun over at DR, which is a great thing.

Likewise, Kaineng is now in a better place too. There are no more egos, folks are working together, and we’re building some server pride.

Having guilds come in and carry you is kind of the opposite of what my post was about there, and yes, chaster himself admitted (earlier in this thread) when they first got on they were only interested in karma trains…

Overall, not really sure what you’re trying to say with that last post, but it’s cute how you’re always trying to flame us

and no egos would mean you’re not constantly whispering myself or my officers every time you see us in WvW about how amazing you think you are

Always a pleasure watching you try to make yourselves out to be underdogs,
Your neighborhood KWBH boogeyman
(aka the guild that should not be named)

In an overall stance…I don’t think any of it matters. When part of your server (kaineng) is complaining about how these guilds are “ruining” your reputation and community…but yet you’re enjoying reaping benefit of “pwning” the competition…it all becomes a moot point. Right now you’ve got your cake and you’re eating it too.

There’s been much a talk about how there are these non-aggression pacts, etc etc, yet the very same guilds (on both sides) that claim these things are breaking them constantly. It’s a battleground, you can’t agree to not attack or you’d be stuck in the bottom feeders club forever..and YOU know it. Instead of wasting everyone’s time, just be happy, play the game, and hopefully we’ll see your server move from the lower tier of brackets with more and more guilds showing up there. People at DR may gripe a lot about being constantly overrun, but the majority of DR’s WvW playerbase actually like the challenge and it means something to them when they control their BL with the overwhelming numbers that are against them (and they know it therefore being humbled by it).

Remember tho kain, that with your increased size and gaining wins, you’ll eventually become the bottom feeders in another bracket and you’ll be right back at square one. You may not be at the bottom anymore, but your morale sure will be when you’re being pinned yet again because you got too big for your britches.

xXTattsXx.4361:

Congrats on the influx of guilds freshly joining in on Kain because they couldn’t hack it in a higher bracket. I truly hope that you all do well but going from barely holding on to slingshot where you are isn’t really an accomplishment in my opinion.. you did have to work for it.. you guys got good transfers.

We have not had an influx of guilds into Kaineng. Vast majority of our growth and success has been homegrown from within the server.

Sure, a few individuals have xfer’d.

We already lsot our last big xfer guild. RMA. they ahve hardly been on this week. Yet we still are closing the gap with Ferg’s regardless.

I’m astounded so many people are trying to deflate this for K lol. I think it’s pretty ugly.

ktith.6197:

Remember tho kain, that with your increased size and gaining wins, you’ll eventually become the bottom feeders in another bracket and you’ll be right back at square one. You may not be at the bottom anymore, but your morale sure will be when you’re being pinned yet again because you got too big for your britches.

I cant wait till till we are in the enxt bracket and lose and get dominated again.

It will weed out the fair weather players, who will seek the “next big thing”.

Maybe. Updated score.

Harbinger.8637:

Maybe. Updated score.

GO KAINING!!

my friends, we are all in the midst of history

if Kaining pulls off this victory

it would be of magnificent fashion! LETS GO BABY!! GO KAINING!

@Harbinger
Amazing how much SoS’s night capping can affect the game. If you guys didn’t have them this match would still have a massive difference in points.

I am on fergusons crossing but i’m transferring to kaineg tonight. I like to iwn and be good at pvp. (Previously played henge but they started to lose so I moved) I’m awesome. go go wvwvwvw.. if you want to be the best u got to beat the best and i’ve never lose a wvw match…ever!

Darek.1836:

@Harbinger
Amazing how much SoS’s night capping can affect the game. If you guys didn’t have them this match would still have a massive difference in points.

Worry not, apparently there’s a new force rising up. Just got word that we got ourselves a big Korean guild added to the fight from SBI, guess we can have some free time for SoS to do some fun things now

CharliePrince.2071:

umm.. wait. WHAT?

BIG KOREAN GUILD FROM SBI?

can you tell me the name of this guild please.. and their tag..

this is disconcerting I only know of 1 big famous korean guild in SBI and my heart would break if they transferred off

eh ... forgot the full name, but they claimed to have three guilds.

WM 500, WM W 400, and WM Intl 150

And, yeah, if that’s true, SoS will no longer be the biggest guild alone in Kaineng now, nuuu

Chaster Sharpshooter.3640:

CharliePrince.2071:

umm.. wait. WHAT?

umm.. wait. WHAT?BIG KOREAN GUILD FROM SBI?

umm.. wait. WHAT?BIG KOREAN GUILD FROM SBI?can you tell me the name of this guild please.. and their tag..

umm.. wait. WHAT?BIG KOREAN GUILD FROM SBI?can you tell me the name of this guild please.. and their tag..this is disconcerting I only know of 1 big famous korean guild in SBI and my heart would break if they transferred off

eh … forgot the full name, but they claimed to have three guilds.

WM 500, WM W 400, and WM Intl 150

And, yeah, if that’s true, SoS will no longer be the biggest guild alone in Kaineng now, nuuu

my heart is breaking I pray it is not War Machine..

I pray it is NOT WAR MACHINE

oh god no

CharliePrince.2071:

my heart is breaking I pray it is not War Machine..

I pray it is NOT WAR MACHINE

oh god no

Sadly, because you are so eager to know, so I logged back in to double check for you.

And ….

Yes, it’s War Machine.

Now come to Kaineng

Chaster Sharpshooter.3640:

CharliePrince.2071:

my heart is breaking I pray it is not War Machine..

I pray it is NOT WAR MACHINE

oh god no

Sadly, because you are so eager to know, so I logged back in to double check for you.

And ….

Yes, it’s War Machine.

Now come to Kaineng

I will sink with Janthir tyvm but i am honestly saddened by this news

War Machine is… they’re great, but.. for SBI I am honestly sad now

having fought WM countless times, welcome them with open arms Kaining, they will do you proud in battle

Kiwiburner writes:
Kaineng is no paradise – as evidenced above there is the odd narcissist hater

I hate narcissists, too. Well, maybe not hate, but they are too dad gummed self-absorbed to be fun to hang with.

;-)

lol wow Mighteous. Just wow. I know your server is doing quite well (had some AMAZING battles against you guys last night), but when you resort to likening us DRs to scared school children or babies with candy, that’s a new low, even for you. I changed my mind from an earlier post, I don’t care for you much. You talk a lot and say very little.

To the rest of Kaineng. Last night was great. Saw you guys in the Eternal Battlegrounds and had some fights that the bards could sing about. Here’s hoping the next few days are as fun as last night was.

The Primetime fights are fun, and balanced I think. Unfortunately with their new infusions of Oceanic/Asian guilds, Kaineng owns the rest of the time.

There is no new infusion of Oceanic / Asian guilds that’s had any affect on this week. SoS has been here since the Kaineng was brought online. War Machine got here 2 minutes ago.

We don’t have a huge influx of prime time WvW guilds either.

We’ve recently picked up WAR, iSPY, and JAWA. When I merged my guild into WAR a couple of weeks back, they had 22 players online, most of which were in PVE. WAR was the largest of these 3 guilds to move over. My guild added 7 more active players to their guild.

We picked up XO, which I’ve never seen more than 3 players in the same place.

We picked up RMA. They are huge. They’re leaving the server tomorrow though, and have been sending out scouts to other servers to figure out where they’re moving too. They’ve been mostly inactive in WvW the last couple of days.

We’ve lost LaZy, a 200+ person guild, and KWBH who claimed to have 130+ people, moved to Devona’s Rest on Friday. RMA is already on their way out. Other guilds have left as well over the weeks.

In short, we’ve lost a lot more people than we’ve gained from transfers.

Here’s what did happen though: We simply tapped into our PVE resources, much of which has just started happening organically.

There are the PVE guilds on the server that are starting to get more and more active in PVE like DD and TGOG, both of which dwarf WAR. We also have some individuals who have moved to the server and grew guilds after getting here like KR and FTSK.

We started recruiting. WAR has recruited over 100 new players from PVE in the last two weeks. We’re nearing 200 players now, with just south of 50 online each night in prime time. About half (give or take) WvW with us.

Most of our WvW force isn’t even level 80 yet. I’d venture to guess half of them are below level 40.

iSPY has recruited a lot as well. I don’t know their numbers.

We’ve strengthened our alliances with other guilds, switched to a 150 person voice chat server, and invited everyone on board so we can coordinate with them. Our alliance has grown to 5 guilds, with strong ties with at least 4 other guilds and we’re all communicating nightly, most are on our TS server.

Recruit, communicate, compete. There’s no magic bullet here. We’re not doing anything DR and FC can’t also be doing, and you guys both have larger servers to pull resources from.

And BTW, is this the same War Machine that won the very first $100K quarterly guild tournament from GW1? My guild used to fight against you guys back in the day. It was always, well let’s be honest… painful.

Welcome aboard.

I’d say your magic bullet is being able to take both maps and completely upgrading them while we’re all sleeping.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed green beats you most of the time in primetime and Dr isn’t far behind.

Just saying.

We held the lead in our primetime for most of the time. It didnt flip over till about 1am.

And you had a lot to do with that
(not complaining).

Were pretty weak between 1am-6am and 12 noon – 7 pm.

There is a gigantic advantage that Kaineng has: time zones. Kaineng is a US server, yet a giant portion of their active WvW population is from the Eastern Hemisphere (i.e. SoS). Ever wonder why the map at 8p.m. game time ends up being primarily green and red but when everyone goes to sleep and wakes in the morning it ends up blue?

Players > NPCs guarding empty forts and towers at (our) nighttime.

Uh it doesnt turn primarily green till it gets out of US primetime on the weekdays.

Weekends yes, green team pulls out even more pop than we can handle, but weekdays no. We tend to be rather competative in the US prime timeslot on weekdays.

uh… not for the last few days no.

You keep it blue for a while until we can break all the fortified fully upgraded forts with siege in them.

…but you can keep thinking you’re amazing if you want

also, aren’t you the one that posts the screenshots from like 7am where the map is all blue?

No, i dont post screenshots of 7am time. And no its not possible to hold off 2 servers at once, if they want in, they get in. But thats expected. We tend to hold our bl, and the key EB keep during us prime, and maybe a fort or two on the other maps depending on what our organized guilds are doing.

what’s the deal with all these kaineng threads all the time. it’s like seriously bros, keep it to one thread per match like the the rest of us.

there’s like a new kaineneg thread from teh same couple people every day.

SniffyCube.6107:

I’d say your magic bullet is being able to take both maps and completely upgrading them while we’re all sleeping.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed green beats you most of the time in primetime and Dr isn’t far behind.

Just saying.

For someone who claims to have left the server because he didn’t like the constant “back and forth”, you never seem to miss an opportunity to reply something negative on the forums for absolutely no reason. I think I’ve figured out the source of your problems for you.

Just saying.

War Machine coming to Kaineng…I don’t think most people understand what this means. I was a member of WM on SBI for the first few weeks of the game and I loved being with those guys. I decided to transfer to Kaineng a few weeks ago with a heavy heart, but after reading all the posts about the “WAY” WvW was being fought on Kain I knew I had to be part of it.

War Machine has awesome leadership and they live for WvW! They will make a huge impact for Kaineng…Game is on now!

SniffyCube.6107:

uh… not for the last few days no.

You keep it blue for a while until we can break all the fortified fully upgraded forts with siege in them.

…but you can keep thinking you’re amazing if you want

also, aren’t you the one that posts the screenshots from like 7am where the map is all blue?

Why argue about it? There’s a website to track this stuff.

http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/51

You can see exactly who had what, when. Green got a huge, pop-driven lead on the weekend, and has subsequently held the income lead twice, briefly, since Monday. I don’t really care that much about the points, but MAN, almost every word Sniffy types is just made-up bullkitten.

little different when you have to fight actual people and not just doors

SniffyCube and Embitter do have a valid point. Due to the flaws in the way WvW score is calculated, those that have the most players on just after peak hours will always win. What Kaineng has going for it is a large number of players based in Asia that can take control of WvW just after peak. It is a very different map during peak hours to off peak. Not much that that 20 – 50 off peak players can do on the other servers during Asia peak hours for Kain. Regularly it is 100 or so Kain players vs 20 or so DR and FC at the moment.

Sadly the scoring doesn’t get adjusted for players online during these hours. For example if scores worked on a ratio that included the number of players online, or factored in a slower score progression or updates during off peak times, server scores would not be so slanted by this.

During peak times, Kain is usually second to FC. Unfortunately WvW balance and scoring is so borked that scores do not at all reflect server skill, only who has the best off peak server population.

But grats to Kain for their off peak server effort, must be hard taking so much with a zerg that consistently outnumbers all other forces on the map 3 or more to 1!!!

This is probably the closest match up this week. Have to see what happens tonight, but if it’s anything like the other night. Kaineng should have the lead tomorrow morning. Just have to keep it through out the day!

Can’t wait to see the final score. WP by all.

we were close then no one listened to me and we lost most our stuff on our map. I was leading on our map for past 3 days when i was on and when i got back all i saw was the work we put in undone. If only people listened… that 3k gap is nothin.

It was fun holding off dreaming bay against 3 waves of Kains and 2 Golems. xD

Regardless of how this week turns out, this has been a blast. I hope the 3 of us can square off again next week.

@ Fubuki
You have inspired and motivated many, and everytime i read your posts i feel like it’s the best speech ever written, like u should write for the president. I am currently in your guild and came here because of your kaineg reports, you truly inspire me. But even beyond that, i came to test out the wv3 in kaineg, and it was every bit of wat you said it was, great competitive even though we won’t win becuase our numbers can hardly fill up more than 2 battlegrounds, but Kaineg was not disheartened, moreso they were motivated, inspired to play a great game, even when the chances and odds would not be with them, because they are true gamers, they love to play, winning is second. I don’t want anything in this server to change, I dont want us to be top tier servers with egos, and blaming others for what happened, i just want to play, even if its on the losing team.

Yours truly,
Being Bright.

People over the few days have shown envy or jealousy over the fact that Kaineng has been getting pure WvWvW guilds. Which is great for them and I respect the guilds that weren’t talking the talk but walking the walk and actually transferred there. It is true, Kaineng did not get an explosion boost of population but the problem was that these guilds that came were not PVE, they’re pvx/wvwvw guilds. It’s an illusion that Kaineng now has the numbers to top us when in truth, they have 24/7 coverage on WvWvW which is something FC and Dr does not have. I’m pretty sure Kaineng has already realized that FC consists of pugs and dozens of random guildies rallying up to do WvWvW. Which leads to the theory of why I believe that’s why FC quits easily. Anyways, I believe Kaineng deserved to win and move on (they probably will with their momentum and oceanic guilds logging in as im making this post). Kaineng is more hungry, determined, and fights harder.

I am tho upset and disappointed at what happened these past few days in BG. This has nothing to do with any players or servers. On the same days and at the same time when my guild is going to do something Great for our server, the BG magically shuts down for maintenance. These moments weren’t about taking random supplies, open battles or random towers. These plays were perfectly timed ensured victory for our server. The first night was when we logged on and retook SM couple days ago and then planned to go for Kaineng Valley. We wasted and built 5 golems on standby within SM. When my scouts ensured me that the Kaineng zergs were fighting against some of our pugs along with DR as well, we were set to launch. But unfortunately the BG randomly with no prior announcement hours earlier, restarted BG for “maintenance”. I was deeply disheartened as we just lost 5 gold right there. Now if you don’t realize, Kaineng Valley is their only stronghold that lets them bounce back for when we take all other towers. It lets them easily retake everything since their keep is fully upgraded. The same incident happened this night 10/18/2012 when we were making another big play. My guild and I went to Kaineng BL with the Outmanned buff. With precise timing, patience and flanking, we were able to setup a stronghold for ourselves. As devona was fighting with Kaineng, we were able to ninja their keep and there you have it, the orb was in there. We took the orb and swam across the lake to place it on our own Keep because it was closer to our waypoint. And sure enough, another random announcement that BG was going down for “maintenance.” During my 450+ hours in GW2, i have never experienced BG going down for maintenance with a random announcement, not telling us ahead of time. You’d think that they wouldn’t do that again after the complaining and griefing after what happened the first time, but nope. Earlier when I read Kaineng’s topic, i saw GMs/Moderator posting stating that Anet is cheering for them. I thought that was pretty tight and i cheer for them too. But after what happened to us and these random resets on crucial moments with Kaineng almost beating us. It makes you kinda paranoid.

tl;dr I acknowledge that Kaineng deserved to win but i believe something about this week was pretty fked up (on my guild’s side of the story).

Just some random pug frim FC making an observation: The next time we match up vs kaineng, it would be completely different. The kaineng from 3 weeks ago is a different kaineng we’re fighting now. I remember telling myself: “one day you’ll wake up or come home from work to an all blue map” Its kinda fulfilling itself right now. The next round unless FC shapes up is likely gonna be a blow out.

No fub, I am by no means trying to take your win away from you. By arenanet’s standards nightcapping isn’t an issue so the 10 to 1 you field against us at night is perfectly within the rules… I am not agreeing it takes skill because during the peak hours its almost always even between the three servers… somehow you fail to acknowledge that.

What I do post about mostly is how just 4 days ago you were beating your chest about how you guys were “outnumbered” and how you were some kind of underdog. There’s no jealousy here just the fact that you all make it sound like you’re this pvp machine when it’s the 600ish or more points you hold every tick for 8 hours a night that gets the win.

also, I had no problem with any of this but it was you guys that started msging me every day almost all week about how amazing you were or how you killed anyone with a kwbh tag

The name calling has also been pretty funny.

All in all really shows your guys’ character at warsworn and SoS

But you’re great at distorting the image of who and what you guys are with the propaganda on the forums… gotta give you that.