Guild Wars 2

BrickFurious.7169:

If it’s true that most German speakers live in the CET time zone, then what does it matter if you recruit non-Germans for other time zones? You’re not going to be playing at the same time as them anyway, who cares if they don’t speak German?

When I was on SBI (US), we had a ton of Chinese and Korean players playing in the SEA time zones, many of whom spoke no English. No one cared, because there weren’t many English speakers playing at that time anyway.

When people speak even the tiniest bits of English they will join an international server instead of a German server and most people wouldn’t bother joining a server that has nothing to offer for their time zone to build it up themselves.

Even if a non-German guild would accidentally join they would be hardly able to interact with the rest of the community and thus wouldn’t bond to the server.

Macilien.3078:

My problem is that most people can’t contribute 2/3 of the day due to sleep/work/school and for a majority these 2/3 are the same, so even if they completely dominate during the 1/3 they can contribute they have no influence on the other 2/3 where they might loose the match to a much smaller force.

I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on your other points. On this one, this is exactly what a time-sliced, scoring periods type of solution like what I proposed is supposed to address. It prevents enemy teams from running up the score overnight, just like a population-weighted system would, but without the unintended side effects of a population-weighted system that I mentioned. You may not agree with me that those unintended side effects will happen, or even that they are that bad, and that’s where I think we need to agree to disagree.

The fundamental difference between our two solutions is my system still places some value on even coverage throughout the day (it just limits the damage of too much coverage in a given time slot). Whereas yours removes that value entirely, focusing instead on just total PPT per player online. I think this is just going to come down to a subjective preference. How much do you want to value a server’s ability to recruit coverage and motivate its players to come out and play? Versus: How much do you want to value a server’s pure skill at taking objectives per number of players currently in the match?

If we go with your system, then I can’t lie, there’s not much point in WvW being a 24/7 game mode. “Off-hours” players on most servers (other than T1/T2) would effectively contribute very little points to the total score, and thus would have very little influence on the outcome of the match. At that point, you might as well switch to an EotM type system where matches only last 4 hours and “servers” are formed temporarily by pulling from current player populations.

Personally, I like the 24/7 match system, and I like the idea of player contributions from all hours of the day being equally important to the match. It adds to the epic feel of the game mode for me. If I knew that the contribution of off-hours players only amounted to 10-20% of the total score, that would significantly reduce the epic feel of WvW for me, as only the 6 hours of NA prime (on most US servers) would really matter. That’s my bias: coverage is a part of the game for me, not a four letter word. So I’m going to continue to advocate for a scoring system that places at least some value on it.

Macilien.3078:

BrickFurious.7169:

If it’s true that most German speakers live in the CET time zone, then what does it matter if you recruit non-Germans for other time zones? You’re not going to be playing at the same time as them anyway, who cares if they don’t speak German?

When I was on SBI (US), we had a ton of Chinese and Korean players playing in the SEA time zones, many of whom spoke no English. No one cared, because there weren’t many English speakers playing at that time anyway.

When people speak even the tiniest bits of English they will join an international server instead of a German server and most people wouldn’t bother joining a server that has nothing to offer for their time zone to build it up themselves.

Even if a non-German guild would accidentally join they would be hardly able to interact with the rest of the community and thus wouldn’t bond to the server.

Is that true for Germans who speak even a little bit of English too? Do they prefer to join international servers instead of a German server?

I just don’t see how any scoring system is going to benefit you here in a 24/7 game mode like WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to want to be able to have an official German server, which only Germans, who predominantly reside in a specific time zone, tend to join. And you also want this server to be able to score competitively in WvW, a mode which currently operates 24 hours a day over an entire week. Don’t you think that seems a bit contradictory? Why design a game mode to be 24/7, but then make it so that a server that only has population online during a small fraction of that time can compete alongside servers that have population at all times of the day?

I have to echo my previous post here. If we’re advocating for a system that weights PPT by the amount of population currently online, then what’s the point in the game mode being 24/7? It seems like an EotM style, 4 hour long match game mode would fit your idea of competitive play much better.

Time sliced scoring 3-2-1 with 4 time slices Europe-NA-OCX-sea ( or more) per day over a week seems reasonable. No one time slot means more or less than any other. Servers with better coverage will still win most likely, but it could be a server that can finish 2nd in multiple zones and not 3-3-3-1 with the 1 zone dominating a match in its current iteration.

It may be worth using as a limited time trial anyway….

Simple solution would be to simply put a cap on how much a server can tick more than other servers.

The problem is that you could win during prime time, but that’s like 100, +200 at the most, over the 2nd highest ppt server. At night this can run away upto 600, so even if you do really well during prime time with highest active players, at night you lose 3x as hard as what you gained.

If however we put a cap on how much more server with the highest ppt can tick over for example just the next highest, the scores wouldn’t run away so stupidly fast. But players at night will of course still be able to contribute to their server, just not to such a stupidly effective degree that playing during peak times is meaningless to the overall score.

So running at 500ppt, when the next highest server has only 150ppt, will put a strain on that 500. Bringing it down to f.e. 350 of what is actually gained.

Time-sliced scoring OK, but still doesn’t solve the issue with populations on one server not finding anyone to fight against on another server. Without needing to change scoring, have time-sliced glicko rating and match-ups. DB’s SEA can compete in their timezone against T3’s SBI SEA while DB’s NA can compete in their timezone against T4 servers. IoJ’s NA would be competitive in T8 while IoJ’s OCX would find competition in T5. LOL. Yea that won’t happen.

Chaba.5410:

Time-sliced scoring OK, but still doesn’t solve the issue with populations on one server not finding anyone to fight against on another server. Without needing to change scoring, have time-sliced glicko rating and match-ups. DB’s SEA can compete in their timezone against T3’s SBI SEA while DB’s NA can compete in their timezone against T4 servers. IoJ’s NA would be competitive in T8 while IoJ’s OCX would find competition in T5. LOL. Yea that won’t happen.

That’s just logistically a nightmare to work out. You start to lose the sense of what a “match” really is at that point too; you’re essentially creating 4 or more distinct matches a day, since you’d have to completely reset the map between time periods to accommodate the different server matchups. Which also makes upgrading objectives less valuable.

I agree that time-sliced scoring doesn’t fix the problem with uneven populations during a particular time period. Though I think it would have a long-term effect of encouraging some evening of server populations across time periods, since IoJ’s OCX would no longer benefit as much from severely overstacking their time slot. If they care more about playing with fellow OCX players, then they can keep doing what they’re doing. But if some of them want to have more of an impact on a match, then they’re incentivized to move to a server that needs OCX help.

BrickFurious.7169:

Is that true for Germans who speak even a little bit of English too? Do they prefer to join international servers instead of a German server?

I just don’t see how any scoring system is going to benefit you here in a 24/7 game mode like WvW. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to want to be able to have an official German server, which only Germans, who predominantly reside in a specific time zone, tend to join. And you also want this server to be able to score competitively in WvW, a mode which currently operates 24 hours a day over an entire week. Don’t you think that seems a bit contradictory? Why design a game mode to be 24/7, but then make it so that a server that only has population online during a small fraction of that time can compete alongside servers that have population at all times of the day?

I have to echo my previous post here. If we’re advocating for a system that weights PPT by the amount of population currently online, then what’s the point in the game mode being 24/7? It seems like an EotM style, 4 hour long match game mode would fit your idea of competitive play much better.

Of course people speaking French, Spanish or German will likely join their national servers, but for anyone else an international server is much more attractive.

It’s not about me wanting to have an official German server, there already are national servers, 5 French, 1 Spanish and 7 German and yes I want my server to be competetive.

I don’t have a problem with WvW being 24/7, but as I said I dislike when the match is decided when hardly anyone is around.

Dawdler.8521:

Diku.2546:

@Dawdler

Wonder if ANet would change the Weekly Reset to an every 3 Hour Reset?

This would do nothing to discourage the Population Imbalance of Server Stacking…which could be the source behind Night Capping problems.

I still firmly believe the base WvW Map Mechanic needs to be changed.

However, it would provide a band aid response to people crying foul on Night Capping by changing the feedback timeframe on who is winning & loosing from a Weekly period…to 3 hours.

People finding their whole map flipped…can feel better knowing that they’re starting a New Timeframe on who is winning…so it makes sense to start all over again & recap things from scratch.

There…problem solved.

The problem with that IMO is that it would water down WvW to just being a longer sPvP match. As it is now, “winning” may not matter to much but you can still feel the result, the excitement of working toward it. If we had 8 matches everyday, I think so many people would just go “meh this is lost, I’ll afk to the next round”. At least now we dont see that until thursday/friday, heh. This would be a fine hybrid gamemode idea between WvW and sPvP though (say 50vs50vs50 1 hour fights on a map the size of a zone).

Perhaps you’re speaking for yourself? I don’t know who wins our matchup each week and its been that way for me through various tiers for many, many months. If Anet rotated one PvE map each week and enabled PvP on it, I’d likely never set foot in WvWvW.

Dawdler.8521:

Diku.2546:

@Dawdler

Wonder if ANet would change the Weekly Reset to an every 3 Hour Reset?

This would do nothing to discourage the Population Imbalance of Server Stacking…which could be the source behind Night Capping problems.

I still firmly believe the base WvW Map Mechanic needs to be changed.

However, it would provide a band aid response to people crying foul on Night Capping by changing the feedback timeframe on who is winning & loosing from a Weekly period…to 3 hours.

People finding their whole map flipped…can feel better knowing that they’re starting a New Timeframe on who is winning…so it makes sense to start all over again & recap things from scratch.

There…problem solved.

The problem with that IMO is that it would water down WvW to just being a longer sPvP match. As it is now, “winning” may not matter to much but you can still feel the result, the excitement of working toward it. If we had 8 matches everyday, I think so many people would just go “meh this is lost, I’ll afk to the next round”. At least now we dont see that until thursday/friday, heh. This would be a fine hybrid gamemode idea between WvW and sPvP though (say 50vs50vs50 1 hour fights on a map the size of a zone).

Fixing Night Capping issue isn’t possible with the current WvW Map Mechanic being used. We can only offer band aid solutions…that won’t really fix this game mode.

Here’s another band aid we could try…based on what others are suggesting:

Set a Weekly Max Score Cap for All Worlds.

Once a World reaches it…they don’t earn anything.

Then let the other 2 Worlds work on catching up to reach the Weekly Max Score Cap.

It’s going to be where everybody is allowed to finish…and we’re all Winners by the end of the Week.

Still doesn’t fix the Population Imbalance….but this might be workable.

Edit – Rewards in the World that reach their Weekly Max Score Cap…are disabled…so players don’t get rewarded for playing WvW.

BrickFurious.7169:

Chaba.5410:

LOL. Yea that won’t happen.

That’s just logistically a nightmare to work out.

Exactly. XD

displayname.8315:

I would be all for alliances (temporary server merge) or time slice wins. Both those ideas were accepted during the adopt-a-dev.

Both are pretty much a version of EoTM, which was good on paper but a few things killed it.. Map design, and linking it to the WvW servers via color coded matchmaking.

The whole alliance thing reeks of EotM, but I disagree on time slice being EotMish.

With time slice if there are 4 “periods” say NA, OCX, SEA, and EU as the 4 time slices then each could be worth X number of points. So a server that dominates SEA cancels a server that wins NA, which is balanced by a 3rd server that overwhelms OCX. EU would be the deciding factor in the above situation. Stacking a timezone is less important than being competitive in all of them.

If you made them 3-point slices rather than one point slice you could conceivably see a server that gets second place in most time zones(more balanced) winning the week. Especially versus a server that is overwhelmingly dominated by a single timezone, but is very weak in the other 3. Once again making stacking one zone of less import than being more balanced.

Chaba.5410:

Time-sliced scoring OK, but still doesn’t solve the issue with populations on one server not finding anyone to fight against on another server. Without needing to change scoring, have time-sliced glicko rating and match-ups. DB’s SEA can compete in their timezone against T3’s SBI SEA while DB’s NA can compete in their timezone against T4 servers. IoJ’s NA would be competitive in T8 while IoJ’s OCX would find competition in T5. LOL. Yea that won’t happen.

Maybe if they used EotM as a measure of when you play and then let you pick a WvW server that needs players in that time. Since new players can’t join WvW until they’re level 60, let them play EotM and then pick a WvW server based upon the times they do play.

I’m just going to say something some won’t want to hear.

What about the capping when some servers who lack NA Prime players lose what they have to servers with a large NA prime player base. To be honest most in this thread only seem to be thinking of “night capping” as happening during OCX/SEA/EU times, when in reality it varies server to server, tier to tier, and sometimes week to week.

A lot of the WvW population, does not WvW every day, certain guilds do raids on x,y,z day which might cause those days to be lopsided in wvw vs the servers they are fighting. While other times players decide that they are going to go to the mythical “outdoors” instead of playing.

I think the battle shouldn’t be “nightcapping” x,y,z time, but it should be more of “How to help players who wvw, when their server has low wvw player population during x,y,z time”

Think of it this way.
Your “night” is my “day”, and I live in NA. My Evening starts at 7-8am EST. My points, and time should mean nothing less, and be counted as nothing less, just because “you” have to go to school, sleep, work, whatever.

Now there are times when the opposing server has 50+ on 1 map, yet we only have 20-30 in total in WvW, and other days when we have the same amount in WvW as our enemies, and even the days we have more.

I do see an issue with servers having time zones they are weak during, and I think there should be more done to level the playing field, but it’s not the point system which should be changed. What should be changed is buffs the players get. (You know how they added the “out manned” buff, it’s nothing more then an indication of a golem rush/blob porting in.) They should change the buffs and benefits of placing siege, ect… if a server is greatly outnumbered on a map.

That way it not only helps during the “night” but it also helps servers who send a havoc group off to 1 map with 10 people, and are met with 30+.

Things it could include could be:
Increased magic find%
Increased Health (enough to actually make a difference)
The ability to “Not” count towards PPK
Increased movement speed, or many other buffs.
Anet could even add in where siege is buffed for the player using it so long as they have the “out manned buff” and such “on them”
(List goes on.)

Many other things could be added, and tweaked. And it could give players an incentive to play during that time, defend, or even help them havoc/siege objectives without making players who play during different time zones feel less appreciated then others who play during “Prime times”

Heck a buff that provides assistance and incentive to play while “out manned” might even help spread players out over maps, so you do not log into seeing EBG queue 30+ with having only 2-3 players in the remaining 3 maps.

How’s this for a band aid.

When there is low population on a map. The map auto-spawns extra NPC defenders.

When players show up to defend on the map…then these auto-spawned extra NPC defenders de-spawn.

Heck…empty map…fill all objectives with Champions for gate guards.

p.s.
Hope folks know that I’m being sarcastic right? This would turn WvW into PvE. I’m still hoping ANet fixes the base Map Mechanic.

Kaiser.9873:

If you made them 3-point slices rather than one point slice you could conceivably see a server that gets second place in most time zones(more balanced) winning the week. Especially versus a server that is overwhelmingly dominated by a single timezone, but is very weak in the other 3. Once again making stacking one zone of less import than being more balanced.

That would be pretty cool to win by placing 2nd in all your time slices.

This system combined with a winner up – loser down at the end of the week could keep things lively.

Mishi.7058:

Think of it this way.
Your “night” is my “day”, and I live in NA. My Evening starts at 7-8am EST. My points, and time should mean nothing less, and be counted as nothing less, just because “you” have to go to school, sleep, work, whatever.

Few people take longer to build a house than many, the point of a scaled tick is that everyone is able to contribute equally. The point of the rating system is to determine fair and fun matchups, but this is much harder if people that are around during low activity count much more than people who are around during high activity.

Things it could include could be:
Increased magic find%
Increased Health (enough to actually make a difference)
The ability to “Not” count towards PPK
Increased movement speed, or many other buffs.
Anet could even add in where siege is buffed for the player using it so long as they have the “out manned buff” and such “on them”
(List goes on.)

I doubt that they will ever grant actual combat advantages to an outnumbered team.

Mishi.7058:

I’m just going to say something some won’t want to hear.

What about the capping when some servers who lack NA Prime players lose what they have to servers with a large NA prime player base. To be honest most in this thread only seem to be thinking of “night capping” as happening during OCX/SEA/EU times, when in reality it varies server to server, tier to tier, and sometimes week to week.

That’s the point. We call it “night-capping” as a shorthand for what happens score-wise when any timezone has an unbalanced or highly unequal population between all three servers. That term doesn’t sit well with certain posters, but who cares when there is no better term to use?

Servers like JQ, SoS, DB, and IoJ historically fall into the category of servers that do not have a majority NA Prime population. I’d argue that the scoring system is a contributing factor to those servers’ need for NA players after three years since launch! The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive. The truth of the matter is that it isn’t fun to be severely outnumbered or to severely outnumber no matter which timezone you play in. The uglier truth is that most lone guilds are not willing to take the risk to be the first to try to equalize the population (there are rare exceptions) and some actually enjoy outnumbering the opponent because it makes winning easier. No one likes not being able to call for reinforcements.

Players, particularly the more competitively minded GvG players, have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA timezone can remain competitively equal (reference semi-recent T2 exodus to T3). The effect of that though is stagnation of matches, which can also be undesirable.

Anet should track individual players WvW play time and offer discounts to transfer prices to servers if the player is moving from an over represented server-timezone to one that needs players.

Of course doing this I can see how some players would auto log in during their target server’s weak time just to get a discount to transfer.

Macilien.3078:

Few people take longer to build a house than many, the point of a scaled tick is that everyone is able to contribute equally. The point of the rating system is to determine fair and fun matchups, but this is much harder if people that are around during low activity count much more than people who are around during high activity..

Not sure you understand how that math works or that you understand what equal means in this case.
If you want to use really bad analogies like building a house. Lets call the points your pay. You asking players to take less pay for the same real estate.

Chaba.5410:

Servers like JQ, SoS, DB, and IoJ historically fall into the category of servers that do not have a majority NA Prime population. I’d argue that the scoring system is a contributing factor to those servers’ need for NA players after three years since launch! The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive. The truth of the matter is that it isn’t fun to be severely outnumbered or to severely outnumber no matter which timezone you play in. The uglier truth is that most lone guilds are not willing to take the risk to be the first to try to equalize the population (there are rare exceptions) and some actually enjoy outnumbering the opponent because it makes winning easier. No one likes not being able to call for reinforcements..

I do not believe you know what your talking about. You make some dishonest statements. For example, JQ has the most T1 first place wins of any server to date. Then you claim they “struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating”. How is the number 1 tier struggling? How is the number 1 server on the number 1 tier struggling? That doesn’t make any sense at all.

The oddest thing to me, is that you make a lot of claims blaming the glicko, then every argument you use to back it up is one about population and player base scheduling.

Chaba.5410:

Players, particularly the more competitively minded GvG players, have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA timezone can remain competitively equal (reference semi-recent T2 exodus to T3). The effect of that though is stagnation of matches, which can also be undesirable.

Your drifting out of the realm of speaking out of a lack of subject knowledge into the realm of pure fabrication at this point.

Some server get some guilds transferring off of them and fall. It was player to player issue. In know way did it have anything to do with the mythical spread sheet your claiming.

If players were organized and hive minded enough to make this mythical spreadsheet
“have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA time zone can remain competitively equal” then we would not have steep population imbalances.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Not sure you understand how math works or that you understand what equal means.
If you want to use really bad analogies like building a house. Lets call the points your pay. You asking players to take less pay for the same real estate.

Sigh, I will put it in very simple words to give you a realistic chance to understand it:
many players = big influence; few players = little influence
this results in each player having the same influence.

Or, if you’re still with me, if you take an arbitrary subset of a given size of all players of a server each of these should have the same potential impact on the servers ranking and not be distorted by some being around when there is little resistance.

Macilien.3078:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Not sure you understand how math works or that you understand what equal means.
If you want to use really bad analogies like building a house. Lets call the points your pay. You asking players to take less pay for the same real estate.

Sigh, I will put it in very simple words to give you a realistic chance to understand it:
many players = big influence; few players = little influence
this results in each player having the same influence.

Or, if you’re still with me, if you take an arbitrary subset of a given size of all players of a server each of these should have the same potential impact on the servers ranking and not be distorted by some being around when there is little resistance.

It’s already been said by Anet devs that they don’t want a population biased scoring because it could lead to players harassing others on the same team that want to play.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaba.5410:

The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive.

Then you claim they “struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating”.

Please do not cut my words to manipulate your response. The subject of the sentence is JQ’s NA population, not the server.

dancingmonkey.4902:

If players were organized and hive minded enough to make this mythical spreadsheet
“have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA time zone can remain competitively equal” then we would not have steep population imbalances.

For someone so quick to accuse me of not knowing of what I speak, thank you for writing this. Did you really believe that the recent two month balance between NA populations in Maguuma/SBI/CD and subsequent glicko-locking just happened naturally? All this makes me believe that you aren’t even aware of what a certain BG guild did to prop up JQ’s NA population over a year ago now when JQ was at risk of being replaced by SoS in T1.

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaba.5410:

The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive.

Then you claim they “struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating”.

Please do not cut my words to manipulate your response. The subject of the sentence is JQ’s NA population, not the server.

How does claiming a server has a problem with being at the low end of population aid your argument to manipulate the scoring around player population, when that server continues to win? Seems to me that the servers you listed are evidence that counters your claims about population and its exact correlation to scoring.

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

If players were organized and hive minded enough to make this mythical spreadsheet
“have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA time zone can remain competitively equal” then we would not have steep population imbalances.

For someone so quick to accuse me of not knowing of what I speak, thank you for writing this. Did you really believe that the recent two month balance between NA populations in Maguuma/SBI/CD and subsequent glicko-locking just happened naturally? All this makes me believe that you aren’t even aware of what a certain BG guild did to prop up JQ’s NA population over a year ago now when JQ was at risk of being replaced by SoS in T1.

Got a link to actual proof of that? What time frame are you claiming? What guild would that be?

Swamurabi.7890:

It’s already been said by Anet devs that they don’t want a population biased scoring because it could lead to players harassing others on the same team that want to play.

Do you have any link for that statement and how recent was it?

Scoring should definitely be tied to the number of players online somehow.

coglin.1867:

How does claiming a server has a problem with being at the low end of population aid your argument to manipulate the scoring around player population, when that server continues to win?

So you don’t believe that population imbalance across T1’s timezones is at all an issue? Go review https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Will-there-ever-be-a-fix-for-Nightcapping/page/2#post5584434 Read it, digest it, understand it, then you’ll have no need to ask this question.

Got a link to actual proof of that?

If you are asking for proof here, it means that you’ve been participating on the wrong forum and placed yourself by choice outside of a certain WvW social circle. This explains your lack of knowledge on the subject of server populations and movement trends. The proof is not a secret. It is there waiting for your discovery.

-Break it into 4 intervals, with 6 hours per interval.
-Of those 6 hrs, 4 hours contribute to wvw PPT +PPK, 2hrs downtime before next reset.
-3points for first place, 2 for 2nd, 1 for third per zone. total is 12 points if wins all 4 intervals/day. Variation for final points get placed into glicko.
-Garrisons/EBG keeps start with fully upgraded (t3 waypoint) each reset. Why? so it’s faster to get to the fights. Other 2 keeps on home BL’s are neutral.

This won’t “fix” night capping. However, any fix shouldn’t punish someone for being where they are. The emphasis on this strategy is based on:

-most guild raids are 2-4 hours
-A 2hr reset between rounds, gives time for people to refresh instead of sitting on an ac for their whole length of stay without worrying about wvw. 2hr intervals in EOTM are too short.
-Paper structures are what demoralize wvwers and no one wants to defend it. I’ve noticed if they are upgraded and guilds are raiding, they are willing to defend it.
-Seeing a 50k blowout lead by Monday, most just give up. Fights are not as meaningful and kinda just people kittening.
-We’re trying to concentrate players into wvw, not spread them out. Each time zone has a 4hr window to raid and refresh.
-With guild halls and gvgers spreading out wvw population. The 2 hour window can be used for gvg guilds to gvg but also enjoy wvw raiding.
-Cut the maps down to 2/3. Idea is to concentrate people into wvw but make it meaningful not stressful.

shiri.4257:

However, any fix shouldn’t punish someone for being where they are.

Anything outside of the 24/7 mode is punishing players for living and having the schedule they have. For most of these posted suggestions, the mode should not be altered to accommodate poorly managed worlds at all. Building a competitive World is what the mode is about. What the Dev’s need to look at is how to empower World building. Right now they are so focused on Guilds and the expansion that they are letting World building go to heck. What’s worse is any changes they have made have in fact hampered World building.

DeWolfe.2174:

shiri.4257:

However, any fix shouldn’t punish someone for being where they are.

Anything outside of the 24/7 mode is punishing players for living and having the schedule they have. For most of these posted suggestions, the mode should not be altered to accommodate poorly managed worlds at all. Building a competitive World is what the mode is about. What the Dev’s need to look at is how to empower World building. Right now they are so focused on Guilds and the expansion that they are letting World building go to heck. What’s worse is any changes they have made have in fact hampered World building.

Exactly. like I can see my suggestion as somewhat minimizing off hour coverage. But the intent is more to concentrate players to go out and fight. Since each 4 intervals would have a 2hr off period for people to go see some sunshine and recharge themselves. it’s still a 24/7 mode but with hard resets/breaks.

I am basing this suggestion off a few things. In particularl the length of guild raids and commanders staying tagged. By concentrating players onto lesser maps and into a smaller time frame, I believe it would be more enjoyable. As the fights are plenty and it’s not a prolong 6hour half kitten ktrain raid. I’m not suggesting different hours get different scores.

Macilien.3078:

Swamurabi.7890:

It’s already been said by Anet devs that they don’t want a population biased scoring because it could lead to players harassing others on the same team that want to play.

Do you have any link for that statement and how recent was it?

It has to be over a year old, maybe two. We were discussing scoring and the thought of score based upon players on a map was brought up. The dev didn’t like the idea that a massive blob could flip an entire map and then leave the map while intimidating any who entered the map.

If I was good at searching three years of posts I’d find it.

Swamurabi.7890:

Macilien.3078:

Swamurabi.7890:

It’s already been said by Anet devs that they don’t want a population biased scoring because it could lead to players harassing others on the same team that want to play.

Do you have any link for that statement and how recent was it?

It has to be over a year old, maybe two. We were discussing scoring and the thought of score based upon players on a map was brought up. The dev didn’t like the idea that a massive blob could flip an entire map and then leave the map while intimidating any who entered the map.

If I was good at searching three years of posts I’d find it.

I remember too a dev saying about how they didn’t want the outnumbered buff to be buffed in such a way that would incentivize players to troll servermates from a map.

problem is .. ..EU servers are mixed with USA servers and others …
and its kinda destructive …in many described ways …but beeing from USA or Canada on an EU server and virsa versa.. is crab

…all u can do is run around like a zombie and bang empty doors….

If there are only a small number of people online, the ticks should give less points in total.

Nightcapping would still destroy upgrades, which is annoying as well, but can’t do much about that.

This just isn’t fixable, Let it go. If it bothers you too much, do something else.

lordkrall.7241:

There is no such thing as nightcapping. Ones night is someone else’s day.

Yes, it is frustrating. But at the same time, wouldn’t it be just as frustrating for the people playing during your night when their work is nullified during their night?

I am not sure PPK is the way to go to be honest, seeing as that would basically make people that play other times than the main prime time in their match up contribute much less than others. It might also lead to people simply avoiding fights and just karma train from capture point to capture point.

this is technically true that someone else’s day is someone else’s night however this is NA servers not global servers so there is a night

emendez.3705:

this is technically true that someone else’s day is someone else’s night however this is NA servers not global servers so there is a night

So, only people that live either in Europe or NA should matter?

What about the rest of the world? GW2 is a global game.

lordkrall.7241:

emendez.3705:

this is technically true that someone else’s day is someone else’s night however this is NA servers not global servers so there is a night

So, only people that live either in Europe or NA should matter?

What about the rest of the world? GW2 is a global game.

The rest of the world only wants to stack on 1 or 2 servers and run 50 man k-train blobs in the middle of the night while avoiding any sort of fights. Why they choose to stay overstacked and run uncontested instead of looking for fights and trying out a new server is indeed strange.

Maybe the fix for these PvE scrubblets is to make PvE maps more desirable. Maguuma jungle just might be the fix no one was expecting.

emendez.3705:

lordkrall.7241:

There is no such thing as nightcapping. Ones night is someone else’s day.

Yes, it is frustrating. But at the same time, wouldn’t it be just as frustrating for the people playing during your night when their work is nullified during their night?

I am not sure PPK is the way to go to be honest, seeing as that would basically make people that play other times than the main prime time in their match up contribute much less than others. It might also lead to people simply avoiding fights and just karma train from capture point to capture point.

this is technically true that someone else’s day is someone else’s night however this is NA servers not global servers so there is a night

There are plenty of regions such as Asia, Australia, and Africa that are in niether one of those continants. Thus they pick a server set. It is not reasonable to set different rules for them because they are outside NA or EU regions. Not to mention players who do not work good Ole bankers hours.

But yes, you are absolutely wrong, they are in fact globally accessible servers. They are just located in NA and EU.

The solution for nightcapping is closing the servers at night. And opening new server regions for those places where the night is at a different time.

See, the current system can match three servers at the extreme part of the populations : you could have a server playing exclusively from 16 to 24, another from 0 to 8 and the last from 8 to 16. The current system would declare those three servers equals yet we’d be having the most boring and uninteresting WvW matchups possible.

Time sliced base WvW with corresponding matchmaking is the solution.

stof.9341:

The solution for nightcapping is closing the servers at night. And opening new server regions for those places where the night is at a different time.

See, the current system can match three servers at the extreme part of the populations : you could have a server playing exclusively from 16 to 24, another from 0 to 8 and the last from 8 to 16. The current system would declare those three servers equals yet we’d be having the most boring and uninteresting WvW matchups possible.

Time sliced base WvW with corresponding matchmaking is the solution.

chuckles

Guess you don’t live near any 7-Elevens chain stores.

Still think ANet needs to fix our base map mechanic, but at least you’re honest about your solution being boring…though possible…

How would you propose on letting the inhabitants of each World server know that they now need to come in and play on new store hours?

Diku.2546:

chuckles

Guess you don’t live near any 7-Elevens chain stores.

Still think ANet needs to fix our base map mechanic, but at least you’re honest about your solution being boring…though possible…

How would you propose on letting the inhabitants of each World server know that they now need to come in and play on new store hours?

Close all “servers”, create new ones with clear opening hours and have people register to them again.

I’m not proposing removing WvW from players at odd hours but instead empowering them with their own servers and their own matchups selected to be competitive for when they play the game.

^ So basically: Not being able to effect the “real” match-ups at all and thus be completely “useless” to their guilds unless they play during prime time?

coglin.1867:

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaba.5410:

The NA population on those servers struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating just as the OCX population on servers like Mag, FA, and YB struggle to be competitive.

Then you claim they “struggle to be competitive in the tiers they are in because of the server’s Glicko rating”.

Please do not cut my words to manipulate your response. The subject of the sentence is JQ’s NA population, not the server.

How does claiming a server has a problem with being at the low end of population aid your argument to manipulate the scoring around player population, when that server continues to win? Seems to me that the servers you listed are evidence that counters your claims about population and its exact correlation to scoring.

Chaba.5410:

dancingmonkey.4902:

If players were organized and hive minded enough to make this mythical spreadsheet
“have made attempts to create equalized populations, going so far as to use spreadsheets to ensure the NA time zone can remain competitively equal” then we would not have steep population imbalances.

For someone so quick to accuse me of not knowing of what I speak, thank you for writing this. Did you really believe that the recent two month balance between NA populations in Maguuma/SBI/CD and subsequent glicko-locking just happened naturally? All this makes me believe that you aren’t even aware of what a certain BG guild did to prop up JQ’s NA population over a year ago now when JQ was at risk of being replaced by SoS in T1.

Got a link to actual proof of that? What time frame are you claiming? What guild would that be?

For all the animosity generated between FA and YB I will back up Chaba here. The guilds of which they speak are the GvG guilds that very carefully, with one exception, decided amongst themselves to move en masse to T3 once the OnS, TW, Cake, WHOA, and friends alliance moved to YB.

The Guild of which Chaba speaks that moved to JQ to prop them up while they were having a difficult time maintaining their standing was TWL, which was an alt guild of TW. TW was on BG at the time, and the competition during NA was apparently very poor. Apparently the JQ SEA was taking a break, and without that force JQ was not doing well. TW went to JQ so they could fight the BG/TC NA guilds, and consequently allowed JQ to rally.

There are links to actual proof of that all over the unofficial forums and elsewhere should you care to look them up.

lordkrall.7241:

^ So basically: Not being able to effect the “real” match-ups at all and thus be completely “useless” to their guilds unless they play during prime time?

No their matchup is completely as real as any other. It’s like saying a EU player on a EU server cannot help his NA guild so they don’t matter.

In fact, I don’t even see why you’d prevent someone from registering to multiple servers as long as you only enter a single server per time block. Also, ANet can very well create say a trio of servers that are open 24/24 for those that like that kind of game too.

It’s a rather flexible solution in the end, despite the restrictions put in place

hobotnicax.7918:

When they remove the points system from WvW, then nightcaping will no longer matter. The point system is just bad in every aspect and is no indication of who’s the better server. Just remove it and make it that player kills count with outnumbered buff giving double. Would negate a lot of the annoying karma train BS and actually make people fight instead of running away, this is open world pvp after all!

Remove PPT completely and certain servers will just hug their towers and keeps all the time and not come out to fight at all unless they have 2:1 odds in their favour.

PPK deincentivises taking risks in fights. The only winning strategy is to form a giant blob and only engage with superior numbers.

stof.9341:

Diku.2546:

chuckles

Guess you don’t live near any 7-Elevens chain stores.

Still think ANet needs to fix our base map mechanic, but at least you’re honest about your solution being boring…though possible…

How would you propose on letting the inhabitants of each World server know that they now need to come in and play on new store hours?

Close all “servers”, create new ones with clear opening hours and have people register to them again.

I’m not proposing removing WvW from players at odd hours but instead empowering them with their own servers and their own matchups selected to be competitive for when they play the game.

How about we change Weekly Reset to every 3 or 8 Hours?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Will-there-ever-be-a-fix-for-Nightcapping/page/2#post5584423

I would much prefer that my actions matter just as much no matter what the time of day I am able to play. If the servers are international, then playng my prime time (oceanic) should be just as valuable as when anyone else plays.

All servers are open 24h and have equal opportunity to diversify their coverage – regardless of language and EU/US server location.