Guild Wars 2

Labeling an empty server like Underworld “medium” population is clearly a lack of a measurement on your part. Please do it again seriously.

Our guild recently wanted to move to T2 for guild fights (we don’t PPT), we wanted to move to SoS, we didn’t want to go to YB but we had no choice, it was the only open server. Then we heard some T1 guilds were stacking on YB to move it to T1, and they managed to transfer here even through we had crazy queues already.

To put it short: WvW is a complete mess. You get the fights you’re supposed to in tier 1 and 2 only, and everyone is stacking there. It’s what you get when you leave a game mode unattended for over 2 years and don’t listen to the community outcry.

If Anet finally want to fix it then they shouldn’t do it with half-measures, get a full team working on it.

Anet might as well just get rid of points per tick and rank the worlds by population size. The rankings would be the same anyway.

x indigo x.6981:

Please understand that this change is meant to SOLVE the ghost town issue. If anet combines this with a dynamic transfer rate cost, BOOM that would solve a HUGE part of the problem with strong momentum too.

What are you looking for? more players in your lower tier ? this will solve it.
Is playing with your friends more important than playing in T1? this will solve it. Transfer with your friends.
Are servers OVERSTACKED with population bigger than what the map can hold? are queues killing your wvw experience ? this will solve it.
Is your guild and other guilds looking for a fresh start? this will solve it.

What exactly is the issue you’re complaining about ? Players getting locked out of a FULL server ? that is NEEDED to make the experience for the players on that server better. You want to get to a full server? ask yourself why ? This is a good change to WvW .. this is healthy long term approach ! This isn’t the libosection or twisted fancy cosmetic change. This is a healthy diet long term plan of success approach. We always look for the diet pill, but have you tried changing the bad habits and having a salad every once in a while ? :/

Blaaaaah ! i’m ranting now ! .. please understand that this is a very healthy change. The approach is right. The only thing that needs to prove itself now is how robust the algorithm is.

To those that complain about it and not like it, I would very much love to hear your suggestions as to what solutions would have been better.

Some said lower total server numbers .. meaning retire some server.. meaning FORCE people to transfer servers.. meaning violate those players cause hey i don’t like new algorithm ..

Some said free transfers .. THE WHOLE ISSUE STARTED BECAUSE OF FREE TRANSFERS. Please do not bring free transfers back. In fact add more penalties on players transferring out of lower population servers towards higher population servers. while also encouraging and rewarding transfers from higher population server to lower ones.

PICK A SERVER AND STICK TO IT! Have some server pride! Improve the community in your server! Learn not to just raise your hands and run away to another server when things get tough!

If you’re in lower tier, this will bring more population your way. If you’re in high tier, this will alleviate your queues. THIS IS A GOOD THING . UNDERSTAND THAT , PEOPLE !

Just quoting this again, this is an incredibly important post by Indigo. All of you that are complaining about this change, please read this and remember it. This is a healthy, LONG TERM change that could go a long way toward not only balancing WvW populations, but making the communities on each server more healthy too.

The biggest threat to the long term health of WvW in this game has been the tendency for population imbalances, overstacking, and mass exoduses to de-stabilize server communities. This was exacerbated by the free transfers early on in the game, and then cemented into place when the cost to transfer to each server was made effectively the same.

This change is an attempt — finally — to nudge things in the right direction. Please be patient, and give it a chance to work. And while you’re at it, do some soul-searching and ask yourself what you really care about: Playing in the full community you’re currently in, playing with your guild mates, or playing with your real life family and friends. If you can’t do all three, then you need to make some hard decisions. This change isn’t about your personal interests; it’s about every WvW player’s interests in the long term health of this game mode.

interloper.6892:

Anet might as well just get rid of points per tick and rank the worlds by population size. The rankings would be the same anyway.

We’ve been telling them for 3 years and they still haven’t understood.

BrickFurious.7169:

And while you’re at it, do some soul-searching and ask yourself what you really care about: Playing in the full community you’re currently in, playing with your guild mates, or playing with your real life family and friends. If you can’t do all three, then you need to make some hard decisions. This change isn’t about your personal interests; it’s about every WvW player’s interests in the long term health of this game mode.

Yeah because having to do hard decisions is what everybody has to do in GW2…not. You realized that about 50% of the WvW population are fair weather choo choo karma zombies, 25% are bandwagoners and about 25% are players who are really into WvW (just my experience from playing on several server across gold, silver and bronze league). Did you?

The casuals won’t care because they play just PvE or something else instead if they dislike the current MU. The bandwagoners are already on a server, they wanted to be and the WvW players are locked in place. What could change it? Should players start to plan mass transfers and take over low pop server without caring about the existing community? That sounds like a blast! Start playing WvW like a hardcore gamer or get off of the server you are playing since release!

Xillllix.3485:

Our guild recently wanted to move to T2 for guild fights (we don’t PPT), we wanted to move to SoS, we didn’t want to go to YB but we had no choice, it was the only open server. Then we heard some T1 guilds were stacking on YB to move it to T1, and they managed to transfer here even through we had crazy queues already.

To put it short: WvW is a complete mess. You get the fights you’re supposed to in tier 1 and 2 only, and everyone is stacking there. It’s what you get when you leave a game mode unattended for over 2 years and don’t listen to the community outcry.

If Anet finally want to fix it then they shouldn’t do it with half-measures, get a full team working on it.

its strange to me that a fights only guild would care about what server theyre on when guild halls will completely smash the current paradigm and replace it with something entirely better in every way as soon as HoT is released

The people saying that the server being full and therefore the can’t have people transfer to their server to balance coverage do have a point.

Therefore the next step is Time Sliced Matches. Samuel can you talk to Josh and suggest that Time Sliced Matches be the next “Special Event”?

Then when it is hugely successful and popular you can implement it permanently and then you can rank servers by Time Slices and mark them as Full, High, etc. based on coverage which is the real issue here.

insanemaniac.2456:

Xillllix.3485:

Our guild recently wanted to move to T2 for guild fights (we don’t PPT), we wanted to move to SoS, we didn’t want to go to YB but we had no choice, it was the only open server. Then we heard some T1 guilds were stacking on YB to move it to T1, and they managed to transfer here even through we had crazy queues already.

To put it short: WvW is a complete mess. You get the fights you’re supposed to in tier 1 and 2 only, and everyone is stacking there. It’s what you get when you leave a game mode unattended for over 2 years and don’t listen to the community outcry.

If Anet finally want to fix it then they shouldn’t do it with half-measures, get a full team working on it.

its strange to me that a fights only guild would care about what server theyre on when guild halls will completely smash the current paradigm and replace it with something entirely better in every way as soon as HoT is released

First things first: they’ve never confirmed if their little playgrounds will be large enough for GvGs. In addition to this fact: so fights only guilds should just stack on low pop servers, forget about regular zerging and try to get GvGs every night? They are on high tier servers for a reason: fights. If you have to face something like Miller’s or Dzagonur you are most likely laughing at them while you wipe them…for the first few fights…then you fall in great agony and start cuddling in your guild hall again waiting for the next GvG with a proper enemy.

How are we supposed to trust anything from Anet when they label a server like UW as “medium”

Everyone knows UW does not have a “medium” population. Saying otherwise only goes to show how anet will say whatever lies to squeeze more transfer money from the players.

Isnt medium the lowest? There are more players then you would think that are interested in lower tiers and a new cost of 500gems is much better then 1000-1800 gem cost. This sounds like a good thing for UW and other low tier servers, what are you complaining about.

He thinks it should be free, which has proved in the past to be disastrous to the free server.

Yea plz no more season 2 disasters with the free transfers, best way to destroy servers and cause bandwagons.

X T D.6458:

Yea plz no more season 2 disasters with the free transfers, best way to destroy servers and cause bandwagons.

Without free transfers the new mechanic will change things really, really slow. Who wants to pay for a transfer from T1 or T2 down to something like UW or FoW? I guess nobody…or maybe some drunken guys.
We need some bandwagoning to change the server populations or we have to wait for new players to fill up the lower tier servers…which will probably never change anything about the state of the full EU servers. They will stay full to the end of time without bandwagoning.

You won’t attract players to UW with 500gems transfer.

The whole free transfert mess was because it was free for everyone. It would be beneficial if only TOWARDS low population servers.

It can’t get more “disastrous” than what we are now. Please make an effort to comprehend, we have no more wvw players. No more than 10ish at high time hours. We won’t survive if we’re just some “medium” server with no appeal to it (that a free or even lower fee would give).

DiscoJacen.1590:

You won’t attract players to UW with 500gems transfer.

The whole free transfert mess was because it was free for everyone. It would be beneficial if only TOWARDS low population servers.

It can’t get more “disastrous” than what we are now. Please make an effort to comprehend, we have no more wvw players. No more than 10ish at high time hours. We won’t survive if we’re just some “medium” server with no appeal to it (that a free or even lower fee would give).

So you would be happy about players rushing UW taking over the server from the existing community? Just curious.

It was not free for everyone, just select servers. Guys, your complaining about transfer fees to your server being cut in half…I cant even….

there is no existing community! I wouldn’t be kitten my self on these forums if there were one^^

And no XTD apparently u are unable to comprehend the situation. Sorry for it

DiscoJacen.1590:

there is no existing community! I wouldn’t be kitten my self on these forums if there were one^^

Then why are you still on the server? Anet just made it so you can transfer off to another lower population server much more cheaply.

The change they made is not going to fix anything immediately. If you can’t wait for players from higher pop servers to slowly start trickling down, then there’s a number of other EU 500gem servers to choose from, transfer there.

DiscoJacen.1590:

there is no existing community! I wouldn’t be kitten my self on these forums if there were one^^

And no XTD apparently u are unable to comprehend the situation. Sorry for it

ive lived in the barrens of the lowest tier, where i was stuck as blue when green won every week by 200k+ points but couldnt break away from the match for 3 months because of a 300 point ratings gap, so i fully comprehend your situation when i say:

no server should ever have free transfers ever again

there has to be a cost to the player to make him or her want to stay where (s)he is and forge a community from whatever exists previously because without that opportunity cost there can be no such thing as community or camaraderie or large scale organization.

so please, find another way to deal with or complain about your disenchantment at the fact that youre on a server that gets steamrolled every week besides free transfers, because free transfers would actually kill off wvw in the long run.

You can’t kill a mode that’s already dead for us. How many times must I type it for people to actually READ my words?

it may be “dead” to you, but there are at least 12 servers that are “full” and anything but dead, and prolly about 20 others that definitely Aren’t Dead Yet.

you dont seem to get that you can change your experience if you arent happy with it, so it really is entirely unnecessary for you to complain people arent reading your words. you have the power. use it.

insanemaniac.2456:

it may be “dead” to you, but there are at least 12 servers that are “full” and anything but dead, and prolly about 20 others that definitely Aren’t Dead Yet.

you dont seem to get that you can change your experience if you arent happy with it, so it really is entirely unnecessary for you to complain people arent reading your words. you have the power. use it.

AND it is now cheaper if you go to a high or different medium server than it was before…..

I like this change – I didn’t sell out my friends and server mates to transfer to a stacked server. without being able to buy off players from low tier servers how are you tier one blobbers going to compete with people who play wvw for more than just shineys. players who win even when outnumbered, without allies. how are you going to keep your troops morale up when you start getting facestomped by players who get things done with far far less people. give the guys on low tiers a little manpower and you guys are gonna be toast. no wonder you’re complaining. lets see the “skill” of tier one players when their tactics and strategies have to be completely reevaluated because they can’t just blob everything to death. not to mention you filled your ranks with people motivated by greed and self service. when the going gets tough will they stick around??
funny how the tier one guys look “down” on lower tier servers – those lower tier loyalist have more grit in one roamer than the entirety of your mega blobs. you should continue to cry cry cry without being able to buy your population anet pretty much signed your death certificate. that’s the crux of your issue – those of you complaining. what NOW

and no discojacen – the communities in lower tier servers still have very strong and loyal cores of people – far from dead.

anet is it possible u guys balance the wvw severs maby give wvw its own servers?

Well the good news with the release of HoT there will likely be a mass influx of new players. So those medium and high servers should start seeing fresh forces.

However, fair warning, be patient with them — or you’ll drive them away. Remember it’s new for them, and ultimately your job to show them why you love WvW so much.

I’d suggest servers start organizing training clinics like siege placement/buffs/zerg commands/scouting/havoc. Make it as easy as possible for new people to assimilate, and perhaps you’ll keep that newly found healthy population and build a true army.

Well if rumors are true there will be a largish move from T2 GvG guilds sooner rather than later. I wouldn’t expect them to go lower than T3, but there is movement happening.

I don’t blame them at all. The queues in T2 were pretty rough before all the movement, and now it’s nuts. Hard to be a GvG guild if there’s nowhere you can get your full team in to fight.

This move, if it works the way ANet seems to want it to, will pull servers more towards the middle. The pop will stay heavily in T1/T2/T3, but it’s possible that T4/T5 will see some good growth as well. I really doubt it will help T6 and below though.

Kaiser.9873:

Well if rumors are true there will be a largish move from T2 GvG guilds sooner rather than later. I wouldn’t expect them to go lower than T3, but there is movement happening.

Apparently they have all moved already down to T3.

I really enjoy it when ppl with not the slightest idea of what’s happening in tier 9 come and preach. Send me links to our “communities” since you seem to know them better than ppl from tier 9 do. Just stop the suck-up and ignore me if reading about problems bores you.

I don’t see why I should pay to change servers for a gamemode that could/should be fixed by the developers. And if you can’t understand that you need to move out from your parents house and start earning your own money coz clearly you don’t know what spending personal money is for something that shouldn’t be broken in the first place.

Putting labels (in this case completely out of touch with reality) on wvw servers is useless at this point. A lower transfer price will do NOTHING do boost transfers.
And so to get back on the topic of the thread:
What are you planning to do to solve the WvW population problem? Are you planing to solve it?

These are the only questions that matter

@disco
Transfer cost gems. Gems can be bought with in game gold. You don’t have to pay real money to move. You can either pay to move with gems – continue to complain – stop playing that is up to you. Good luck in your decision.

DiscoJacen.1590:

I really enjoy it when ppl with not the slightest idea of what’s happening in tier 9 come and preach.

tier 8 you meant, there is no tier 9.

wvw is a masterpiece of strategy, community building, and large scale war.
the problem wasn’t with anet or the design it was with players manipulating the system.

servers wouldn’t be ghost towns and the populations would not be imbalanced if people didn’t buy entire guilds and siphon off from lower tier servers.

this is an elegant solution to a complicated problem.

the only way to counter attrition is by growth by stopping growth the population will gradually dwindle to more even populations.

kudos to anet.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Couple of questions:
1) Will there be instances where a FULL server goes non full for a brief moment like it used to?
2) If a mass exodus happens to a server how long will it take to reflect the new population status?

Still waiting for replies from a dev

DiscoJacen.1590:

Send me links to our “communities” since you seem to know them better than ppl from tier 9 do.

my server was tier three – the first wvw tourney happened and we had a mass exodus. we dropped all the way to tier 8 – we rebuilt and are halfway back up- the community’s may be small but they exist- when my server was a ghost town I picked up my flamethrower and went to work instead of crying about it on the forums- I have no doubt our server will climb to tier one some day even if anet hadn’t changed anything – partly because its my online home with my online family and im gonna be knocking on doors and planting finishers in peoples faces for at least the next 5 to 10 years – the other reason is my friends from my server are just as committed as I am – and they also get to work instead of crying when they show up to an empty map – its not anets JOB to fix your servers willing ness to participate in wvw . its yours step one is be positive and go to work.

Qazmodon.1823:

DiscoJacen.1590:

I really enjoy it when ppl with not the slightest idea of what’s happening in tier 9 come and preach.

tier 8 you meant, there is no tier 9.

wvw is a masterpiece of strategy, community building, and large scale war.
the problem wasn’t with anet or the design it was with players manipulating the system.

No it most certainly isn’t a masterpiece. ESO has a far better designed large scale PvP game, unfortunately it had other problems which meant that there wasn’t a large scale guild migration from 1 to the other. Basing the sides on servers was a mistake anet made just for example and the way siege is built and used requires too much busywork. Not to mention the inability to properly reward more defensive activities.

DiscoJacen.1590:

I don’t see why I should pay to change servers for a gamemode that could/should be fixed by the developers.

And if you can’t understand that you need to move out from your parents house and start earning your own money coz clearly you don’t know what spending personal money is for something that shouldn’t be broken in the first place.

1. then don’t Anet offers the service you are free at anytime not to pay for it.
2. I own my own home and make plenty of money – anet put out a good product the players are the ones who broke it. and even then its not really broken just not optimal

Qazmodon.1823:

DiscoJacen.1590:

I don’t see why I should pay to change servers for a gamemode that could/should be fixed by the developers.

And if you can’t understand that you need to move out from your parents house and start earning your own money coz clearly you don’t know what spending personal money is for something that shouldn’t be broken in the first place.

1. then don’t Anet offers the service you are free at anytime not to pay for it.
2. I own my own home and make plenty of money – anet put out a good product the players are the ones who broke it. and even then its not really broken just not optimal

Not to mention gems can be purchased with gold if real cash is an issue….

morrolan.9608:

Qazmodon.1823:

DiscoJacen.1590:

I really enjoy it when ppl with not the slightest idea of what’s happening in tier 9 come and preach.

tier 8 you meant, there is no tier 9.

wvw is a masterpiece of strategy, community building, and large scale war.
the problem wasn’t with anet or the design it was with players manipulating the system.

No it most certainly isn’t a masterpiece. ESO has a far better designed large scale PvP game, unfortunately it had other problems which meant that there wasn’t a large scale guild migration from 1 to the other. Basing the sides on servers was a mistake anet made just for example and the way siege is built and used requires too much busywork. Not to mention the inability to properly reward more defensive activities.

to me it was close to perfect – by avoiding factions they prevented one side from being imbalanced due to class imbalances – they do still have balance issues but since everyone has equal access it is still “fair” (even though annoying) unlike WoW and SWOTOR where if they have a class imbalance it screws the whole faction.

I like the populations being based on a server and the fact that you could give your server bonuses it gave the fighting just a touch more meaning ( not much the rewards are kinda weak imo.)

I like the way siege is built but I hate trying to keep the kitten things refreshed.

I do agree that defending isn’t rewarding at all especially considering how crucial it is

all of that being said I should have stated “in my opinion anet created a masterpiece” because it fixed a ton of problems I’ve had with other mmorpgs. and like in other mmorpgs Ive seen the players do a ton of crap I personally don’t agree with and break parts of what I consider to be a very cool game

Get rid of the WvW Server model entirely. It’s a fundamentally poor model and can never be balanced. Let Guilds form Alliances, and base match-ups on Alliances. This way you will be playing with and against other players of your caliber; you will have many familiar allies from your Guild’s Alliance, but you may also have new allies. With this you can also allow Alliances to prefer Sparse, Moderate, or Dense WvW population loading for the match-ups they receive each week.

Without being stuck with fixed populations on fixed servers, you don’t have to wait for Glicko ratings to reflect changes to servers as players/guilds come and go. You can easily create full and balanced match-ups each week, while also ensuring players get to play in the type of environment they like, too (more roaming vs. more zerging).

Pikka.6023:

With this you can also allow Alliances to prefer Sparse, Moderate, or Dense WvW population loading for the match-ups they receive each week.

Lol, how did you plan that to work? FFA matchmaking, like an lfg?

Oh you have a small 1000 man alliance, looking for sparse fights with similar alliances… Sorry, you only got two opponents left, the other matchups are already set. GLHF fighting these 20,000 man and 30,000 man alliances prefering dense fights.

Tiered glicko matchmaking is a kitten, but kitten if I know a better solution. ESO style alliances does not work with current GW2 instance limitations. FFA EoTM we can all agree is kitten for competetive teamplay.

X T D.6458:

Isnt medium the lowest? .

i think i used to see Low as the lowest……. back in the early days

Pikka.6023:

Get rid of the WvW Server model entirely. It’s a fundamentally poor model and can never be balanced.

if perfect balance is ever achieved then no one wins.

the tier system seperates the heavy weights from the bantam weights from the light weights.

the glicko measures your performance for your size. bruce lee was little but I’m pretty sure he would beat the brakes off of your average 200 pounder.

the whole point of competition is to seek advantage and win – be it numbers or skill -

This fix is to slim down the super heavyweights so they can compete against people in the same weight class. not to make it “completely fair” complete fairness means complete balance – complete balance means no one wins – if no one wins then why compete?

azizul.8469:

X T D.6458:

Isnt medium the lowest? .

i think i used to see Low as the lowest……. back in the early days

I kinda feel the same way, though they did change things up a long time ago and all the servers had a boost up in population classification when they changed the standards for it, pretty much every server went to very high pop. According to the wiki medium is at the bottom, then high, very high, and full.

As someone already pointed out, I’m more concerned about how often server activity will be calculated to determine population and how full servers will open up since its no longer determined by players leaving, in a way.

DiscoJacen.1590:

Labeling an empty server like Underworld “medium” population is clearly a lack of a measurement on your part. Please do it again seriously.

I guess it is seriously measured, but you cannot really use the word Empty as server label
So:
Medium is the polite / marketing equivalent of empty
High likely means slightly below average
Very High likely means slightly above average
Full likely mean much above average

Took a look at Camelot Unchained and they have alot off work Before it wil be anything, now it looked like WOW light from 2003.

And yet Qazmodon here you are on the forums trying to argue with me at every post instead of “picking up” your little flamethrower and working towards helping your community.
That you would assume that I can’t be one of the last wvw players on my server AND come here to warn about our problem shows how out of touch you are. Please go enjoy the game since you seem to be in a server where WvW is enjoyable and let us talk here about our problems without you trolling.

BTW there is a tier 9 in Europe. You’d know that if you had done even the tiniest of research before trying to act smart here.

Shadow.3475:

Took a look at Camelot Unchained and they have alot off work Before it wil be anything, now it looked like WOW light from 2003.

It will still need a lot of work indeed, but the first beta will be in august. It will come out next year, when it comes out WvW on gw2 will die out pretty quickly, i have heared an insane amount of people going to move to that game. And even if a majority plays PvE, the most stable people are that of WvW if you lose that group you will lose a lot of money.
The only way for Anet to keep the people playing is or make it purely casual like EOTM, but then communities will all die out pretty quickly.
Or make it a bit more hardcore, so that all the groups will stay and you will even see more dynamic and better gameplay from the people that also brings up a better selling card.
Really having a team focussed for WvW and also change it in such a way that WvW works on its own even with their own lobby like PvP. For any introductions for new players and possible help with the current meta’s on them to.
Guild halls will become a perfect spot also for guilds to do a lot it will be fixing a lot of problems (thanks Anet for that one everyone is waiting in full hype for that).

What they could do is to kick everyone out of their homeserver and then let everyone re-pick their server again. With a notice well ahead of time so communities can plan their server ahead of time.

Isn’t that best idea ever?

FrizzFreston.5290:

What they could do is to kick everyone out of their homeserver and then let everyone re-pick their server again. With a notice well ahead of time so communities can plan their server ahead of time.

Isn’t that best idea ever?

Nope. Because this would irritate a lot of customers. And it would lead to even worst stacking. People would bet that server XXX is gonna be popular and flood to it. Even they would have player limits then many would be left out, including those who used to play on that server —→ extremely aggravated customers.

Eheh like your idea Erik altho like Deniara said it would prob cause an uproar from customers and therefore cause more dmg^^

Just simply measure FOR REAL the WvW attendance and merge/close the empty servers already….