Guild Wars 2

Jayne.9251:

Looking at the MOS, T3 NA looks really really healthy now. GJ!

T3 NA increased populations have nothing to do with the changes however, It is due to all the GvG in T2 choosing to make T3 the new GvG tier prior to the changes in protest of a new alliance and attempt to move YB to T1. All of this was decided prior to the changes being announced, and not due to them. They will ensure that the new T3 GvG servers stay where they want them predetermining the winner every week to ensure they do not move up or drop down. The servers being taken over by the GvG guilds will now be the new GvG tier as it was in T2.

lil devils x.6071:

1) you add more active maps to accommodate more prime time players, ques would not be an issue at all. In fact, you could even have “event maps” that appear for set time periods that disappear when their time is up to create more maps in use at once during busiest time periods.

If you just create more and more maps to avoid queues you would just give the advantage to the server with a larger population, moreso than now, as they expand in to empty maps.

Also, non-persistent maps come with other issues. Such as less of an incentive to defend because well… it’d all disappear in a few hours when primetime was over anyway.

lil devils x.6071:

2) You run none of the problems with EoTM if implemeted properly, EoTM score never counted to begin with. That linear map and chokepoints make it not worth playing at all. The score STILL counts, in addition they should give actual player rewards for winning, not the BS they currently do that you can cash in for prizes like they did for Tourney. You can even have it where you play GvG wvw tourneys only playing against certain guilds for the duration. No " overflows" only maps that the score counts and that has rewards for winning. It would be like seasons but all the time.

As others have mentioned, things like ‘server loyalty’—but more so just a sense of persistence, community, and camaraderie—are more important to the existing WvW community than “rewards” (obviously, since they’re pretty non-existent currently). Even just the knowledge you’re going to run into some of your rival guilds on the field motivates guilds to go out there.

The whole community aspect might not occur to you because you have a massive guild, and multiple others to run with—pretty much your own insular WvW community. But not everyone has that, and smaller guilds and individuals don’t want to have to jump through hoops just to make sure they end up on the same team, much less the same map instance.

Turning it into some EotM 2.0 with better maps and “rewards” isn’t going to do it for the core WvW players. Especially considering that the better the rewards, the more incentive to just karma train it.

These ideas are pretty half-baked. Maybe sound good in theory, but if you actually think them through to the end you’d realize they’re full of holes.

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

Looking at the MOS, T3 NA looks really really healthy now. GJ!

T3 NA increased populations have nothing to do with the changes however, It is due to all the GvG in T2 choosing to make T3 the new GvG tier prior to the changes in protest of a new alliance and attempt to move YB to T1. All of this was decided prior to the changes being announced, and not due to them. They will ensure that the new T3 GvG servers stay where they want them predetermining the winner every week to ensure they do not move up or drop down. The servers being taken over by the GvG guilds will now be the new GvG tier as it was in T2.

No offense to the lower tiers, but if these guilds are just looking for GvG, why not go lower like T5-T8 where there is plenty of room for fights, especially if they are not looking to score any points. As far as fixing the outcome for the week, yeah I don’t think most of the existing servers in those tiers would appreciate/accept that kind of behavior. That might make things ugly.

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

Looking at the MOS, T3 NA looks really really healthy now. GJ!

T3 NA increased populations have nothing to do with the changes however, It is due to all the GvG in T2 choosing to make T3 the new GvG tier prior to the changes in protest of a new alliance and attempt to move YB to T1. All of this was decided prior to the changes being announced, and not due to them. They will ensure that the new T3 GvG servers stay where they want them predetermining the winner every week to ensure they do not move up or drop down. The servers being taken over by the GvG guilds will now be the new GvG tier as it was in T2.

No offense to the lower tiers, but if these guilds are just looking for GvG, why not go lower like T5-T8 where there is plenty of room for fights, especially if they are not looking to score any points. As far as fixing the outcome for the week, yeah I don’t think most of the existing servers in those tiers would appreciate/accept that kind of behavior. That might make things ugly.

That’s the common misconception about GvG guilds … That that is all they do, when often if a healthy and respectful relationship is created on both sides, they become the backbone of the server and biggest contributors to ppt.

It’s when toxic relationships are created that things tend to go sour. You can’t GvG 24/7, and often members of GvG guilds become part of the pug force when not skedded to raid.

Jayne.9251:

That’s the common misconception about GvG guilds … That that is all they do, when often if a healthy and respectful relationship is created on both sides, they become the backbone of the server and biggest contributors to ppt.

It’s when toxic relationships are created that things tend to go sour. You can’t GvG 24/7, and often members of GvG guilds become part of the pug force when not skedded to raid.

Probably, but if they even fix matches (and go lengths to do so), then I don’t think they care about their servers at all.
We’ve had some guilds which were also into GvG who did great on our servers, but they weren’t fighting just to get their GvGs, they were fighting for the fights.

Jana.6831:

Jayne.9251:

That’s the common misconception about GvG guilds … That that is all they do, when often if a healthy and respectful relationship is created on both sides, they become the backbone of the server and biggest contributors to ppt.

It’s when toxic relationships are created that things tend to go sour. You can’t GvG 24/7, and often members of GvG guilds become part of the pug force when not skedded to raid.

Probably, but if they even fix matches (and go lengths to do so), then I don’t think they care about their servers at all.
We’ve had some guilds which were also into GvG who did great on our servers, but they weren’t fighting just to get their GvGs, they were fighting for the fights.

That’s when you organize and flip stuff.

Cos if they’re keeping the enemy busy with fights, that leaves the map wide open to control.. Enemy can’t be two places at once. It’s win-win.

And, over time, if those GvG guilds are given leeway to fight, trust gets built, and my experience is they tend to respond more to call outs. But it takes time for trust to build. Work with them, and hopefully they’ll work with you, too.

There’s so much toxicity of us vs them in regards to regular ppt-ers and GvG guilds — when in reality both can coexist on map and fundamentally help each other to reach their goals — one to fight, the other to control the map. Just coordinate on your server to have a mix of GvG with ppters on any given map and you’ll find it works beautifully.

Jayne.9251:

That’s when you organize and flip stuff.

Cos if they’re keeping the enemy busy with fights, that leaves the map wide open to control.. Enemy can’t be two places at once. It’s win-win.

That’s nice in theory but in reality it’s “organized” GvG fights on usual maps during prime time and we’ve got a queue. And about 10 tags on the map, so no one really knows where to go. It’s abit more complicated actually.I think we’ve had 2 GvG guilds on our maps once, or maybe 3, and 2 were against a “public” blob but they couldn’t get themselves to work together – that was a really sad fight, which we probably just won because I was pushing (as a glassy thief) while writing to them in mapchat that they should stop pew pewing from afar.

Jayne.9251:

And, over time, if those GvG guilds are given leeway to fight, trust gets built, and my experience is they tend to respond more to call outs. But it takes time for trust to build. Work with them, and hopefully they’ll work with you, too.

Yeah in an ideal situation, but again: I’ve been on NA, I left about a year ago and came to EU, I looked at the standings from time to time and you could see which servers were pushed up or down – and I was wondering why that was – GvG- guilds rigging the matches is a perfect explanation – so I think your example might apply to EU standards but not to NA. And I’m not against GvG or anything, just “We’re going to push this and that server and make an alliance with this and that server, because we make this and that server our new GvG server” – that’s plain stupid.

Jana.6831:

Jayne.9251:

That’s when you organize and flip stuff.

Cos if they’re keeping the enemy busy with fights, that leaves the map wide open to control.. Enemy can’t be two places at once. It’s win-win.

That’s nice in theory but in reality it’s “organized” GvG fights on usual maps during prime time and we’ve got a queue. And about 10 tags on the map, so no one really knows where to go. It’s abit more complicated actually.I think we’ve had 2 GvG guilds on our maps once, or maybe 3, and 2 were against a “public” blob but they couldn’t get themselves to work together – that was a really sad fight, which we probably just won because I was pushing (as a glassy thief) while writing to them in mapchat that they should stop pew pewing from afar.

That’s when coordination/relationship comes into play. We do this on Piken and have for a very long time. The GvG’ers tag up yellow (for guild only, and believe it or not, they rarely get pugs tagging along even if there’s no blue tag on map, people respect their space), and the public raid tags blue — or red for smaller havoc teams. Just communicate and agree on a plan that makes everyone happy. And it only takes a handful of people to flip a tower, hell I’ve gotten garri wall down solo running supply to a cata on reset many times. Take advantage of it. It DOES work.

It will NOT work if there’s “OMG THESE GUYS ARE TAKING UP SPACE ON THE MAP!” type fights. It’s a waste of energy anyhow. Just learn how to work together — cos when it does, it’s a beautiful thing.

Jana.6831:

Jayne.9251:

And, over time, if those GvG guilds are given leeway to fight, trust gets built, and my experience is they tend to respond more to call outs. But it takes time for trust to build. Work with them, and hopefully they’ll work with you, too.

Yeah in an ideal situation, but again: I’ve been on NA, I left about a year ago and came to EU, I looked at the standings from time to time and you could see which servers were pushed up or down – and I was wondering why that was – GvG- guilds rigging the matches is a perfect explanation – so I think your example might apply to EU standards but not to NA. And I’m not against GvG or anything, just “We’re going to push this and that server and make an alliance with this and that server, because we make this and that server our new GvG server” – that’s plain stupid.

It’s possible. EU plays a whole different style. I’m hopeful for NA though — things seem to be moving in the right direction.

But again, I think this is historic relationships of antagonism between the two groups. If you eliminate the “my way or the highway” attitude (on both sides) and look to see how both could work together, you’ll get more of an EU map. Not that EU is superior (well some would argue! haha) … just that they seem to be able to make this work so everyone is happy.

Jana.6831:

I think we’ve had 2 GvG guilds on our maps once, or maybe 3, and 2 were against a “public” blob but they couldn’t get themselves to work together – that was a really sad fight

Oh for this!

Typical map chat between guilds is:

Guild 1: “Guild 2 you need help over there or want to handle it?”

Guild 2: “We’re fine, can you look at west side, there’s swords over in vale.”

Guild 1: “OK will do, yell if you need help.”

Lots of communication on map, and lots of cooperation between guilds. If one guild engages a blob first, the other asks if they can join. This honestly happens, it’s lovely!

And then what typically happens is the GvG guilds trade off on responding to scout call outs on map — one will continue fighting while the other will come and help push out the bad guys. If there’s only one GvG guild on map, the map “regulars” will coordinate and fight off any incoming.

Jayne.9251:

snip

Reply to both your posts: I know that it can work, it has worked on my first server, it doesn’t really work on my current server, although I don’t think that is malicious intend, we’re just too many potatos, but that wasn’t my point. My point was that these (NA) guilds seem to be only interested in rigging the matches so they can have the opponents they wish – and you can call out in map chat all you like, they won’t come to help if it isn’t in their interest which is a certain outcome of the week’s match – but you still have the queue and that’s why this is working (for the GvG guilds) because the populationn of the server which wants to play wvw is shut out. I’m on a “very high” silver server and even we’ve got queues for a few hours a day.

And yeah, I hope things will work out for NA too.

lil devils x.6071:

Johje Holan.4607:

Liston.9708:

How do you regulate “only non-NA prime can join”. Are those accounts locked out of wvw entirely for certain times of the day? If you go that route, why not just designate a set of servers as sea, OCX, eu, and U.S. etc and change how ppt works outside of the servers prime designation.

That said, I noticed the t3 equal, but not really from sbi and maguuma side… Had some “fun” last night if you consider spawn camping fun…..

I don’t know. I assume Anet can tell where the ip address is coming from. But that was said half in jest because I know it’s not realistic.

I am in favor of Time Sliced Matches myself. You wouldn’t need to designate a set of servers as Sea, Ocx, etc. Just designate the different timezones of a server with separate Glicko scores and then each “Slice” will be matched up with other slices of other servers of similar Glicko. Coverage wars solved.

What difference would it make what timezone they actually live in when the players themselves can be from all over the world? Not everyone works the same hours and would need to play on a server where they have a good ping as well. Much of our PST, OCX, SEA and EU are players in North America that work different shifts than people with " day jobs". Some do not even get off work until 3 am and come on to play when they do. Whether they get off work at 3 am, 7 am, or 5 pm, they should be able to come on and play without a bad ping and have people to play with. Not to mention on their day off they may want to play extra hours. There is no reason to segregate the players, just have it so everyone had access to other players to play with on every match.

Hey I was on your side! If they only let in people that were from those timezones then it would at least alleviate some of the issues surrounding your argument. As it is not, nobody is getting in. Anyway that part is irrelevant because its not happening and like I said it was half in jest.

Which is why I’m in favor of Time Sliced Matches. If they instituted time sliced matches then JQ Ocx, Sea, EU times may not be marked as full and people could join. Even though it wouldn’t change much for those time zones on JQ, BG and TC since you all are so much more populous than any other server in those timezones, it might make give more variation to your NA Prime timezone.

You all could sometimes play YB and FA. And more variety would ensue. Although it would be better if they’d have done it awhile ago since there has been a large population drop even in NA Prime.

I don’t even think SFR/Deso is anywhere near Full right now to be honest.
WvW at least on the EU side, isn’t as active as it used to be. Prime time queues aren’t that long, even with every Guild during prime time, it isn’t enough, but it helps that not all Guilds are stacked on so few servers now.

Not all Guilds are stacked on T1 either,. it’s just hard to measure the difference in Coverage. Sadly some people don’t want to understand about having balanced servers, even NA guilds on the EU side have made things imbalanced and all they have to fight is doors or blobs.

PPT has been and has always been a bad scoring mechanic.

ArchonWing.9480:

It’d be nice to toss in a discount to kick this all off. The gem store often offers discounts on items, so why not here to promote it?

With the return of High and Medium servers, the discount is effectively already happening. It’s just not for the stacked servers that everyone wants to keep bandwagoning to.

Soridormy.8132:

This stupid way(blocking to transfer) is not solution for dispersing wvwers
Who want to play on dead Tier(like tier345678 servers)?

Your “dead” tiers (345678) are the only ones I’ve played on. And like it or not, this change will make them less “dead” now, which is definitely a good thing for the WvW game mode as a whole.

fishball.7204:

OCX is already bloody ghost town outside of T1, this change literally screws over every new OCX player looking to play in WvW that actually has enemies to fight.

THAT is what we are complaining about.

Speak for yourself.

I’m an oceanic too, only I didn’t fall for the “hey guys let’s all stack on like 1-2 servers” attitude that many oceanics have had since before the game was even released.

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

Grav.3568:

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

God forbid in an mmo that a player wants to have other people to play with

morrolan.9608:

Grav.3568:

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

God forbid in an mmo that a player wants to have other people to play with

That works fine in PvE.
In WvW we’re gonna need you to fight each other a lil bit

LetoII.3782:

morrolan.9608:

Grav.3568:

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

God forbid in an mmo that a player wants to have other people to play with

That works fine in PvE.
In WvW we’re gonna need you to fight each other a lil bit

No, In PVE you have NPCs to play with/ against. IN wvw You actually have to have players to have someone to play with/ against. Soloing keeps is only entertaining for so long. AT some times, you can log into servers and have not only No team to play with at all, you have no one to fight against . Thought it was supposed to be a PVP game mode. For it to be a PVP game mode you have to have people to play with/ against 24/7 otherwise the game is either dead or broken. And.. NO, you should not take a game developers recommendation for “the best server for you” to then be told after you have to pay more to actually have players to fight with / against, that is just seriously messed up.

Soooo, top 10 servers in EU are full. I wonder how they measured this because some are way more full than others… Anyone at anet want to explain how this full works?

Some are way more than the full threshold because they didn’t boot anyone from their server……

they said already its based on server chosen as home server so its still based on pve population not much diff than before.

lil devils x.6071:

LetoII.3782:

morrolan.9608:

Grav.3568:

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

God forbid in an mmo that a player wants to have other people to play with

That works fine in PvE.
In WvW we’re gonna need you to fight each other a lil bit

No, In PVE you have NPCs to play with/ against. IN wvw You actually have to have players to have someone to play with/ against. Soloing keeps is only entertaining for so long. AT some times, you can log into servers and have not only No team to play with at all, you have no one to fight against . Thought it was supposed to be a PVP game mode. For it to be a PVP game mode you have to have people to play with/ against 24/7 otherwise the game is either dead or broken. And.. NO, you should not take a game developers recommendation for “the best server for you” to then be told after you have to pay more to actually have players to fight with / against, that is just seriously messed up.

… JQ needs more people, we get it

JQ and about 10 servers along with it ; )

LetoII.3782:

lil devils x.6071:

LetoII.3782:

morrolan.9608:

Grav.3568:

If oceanics truly want more enemies to fight, then maybe they shouldn’t be so consumed with their need to have so many friends first.

God forbid in an mmo that a player wants to have other people to play with

That works fine in PvE.
In WvW we’re gonna need you to fight each other a lil bit

No, In PVE you have NPCs to play with/ against. IN wvw You actually have to have players to have someone to play with/ against. Soloing keeps is only entertaining for so long. AT some times, you can log into servers and have not only No team to play with at all, you have no one to fight against . Thought it was supposed to be a PVP game mode. For it to be a PVP game mode you have to have people to play with/ against 24/7 otherwise the game is either dead or broken. And.. NO, you should not take a game developers recommendation for “the best server for you” to then be told after you have to pay more to actually have players to fight with / against, that is just seriously messed up.

… JQ needs more people, we get it

It isn’t about JQ, or any ONE server. Many players have played on many servers, and know exactly what every tier has to offer. I have played on multiple servers, my friends and family have played on multiple severs and I have friends and family currently stuck on ghost town servers due to being locked out of servers that actually have people to play with and against during the hours they play. It isn’t about one server, or player, it is about many players that take " Anets recommended server " advice and get screwed.

Enjoying Gw2 wvw, I would like to see it be around a long time to come, however, with their current actions it will not be, as they are actually running people off with their actions of " recommend the worst server possible to new players" then tell them they have to pay more money due to taking their advice if they want other players to play with and against. Then finding out that all the servers that actually have players to play with and against during the time they are able to play are now locked. In addition the majority of the wvw population cannot even invite family, friends, or coworkers to play with them because the majority of players are now on locked servers. To be able to invite new players to play with you, you have to play a different game instead now.
That isn’t how you keep new players playing your game and have free advertising by word of mouth . No that is how you kill it and make players feel as though they were ripped off.

Taxidriver.2043:

they said already its based on server chosen as home server so its still based on pve population not much diff than before.

I do believe it is based on the number of players that actually go in to wvw, however, you are correct that it is still based on the PVE populations, due to the number of PVE players that come in just to do their dailies or champs and leave. The Top servers have a large enough PVE population coming in just to do dailies that even if the wvw players all stopped playing they would probably still be marked full from the people doing dailies alone.

lil devils x.6071:

I do believe it is based on the number of players that actually go in to wvw, however, you are correct that it is still based on the PVE populations, due to the number of PVE players that come in just to do their dailies or champs and leave. The Top servers have a large enough PVE population coming in just to do dailies that even if the wvw players all stopped playing they would probably still be marked full from the people doing dailies alone.

I feel so bad for T1 NA! Really I do – I mean you can’t even find time anymore to play because you have to tell us just how bad things are for your server, your family and coworkers. And that even though none of us really knows how things will turn out as this system is brand new.

Honestly: Had it stayed like it was there wouldn’t have been anyone (except T1+2) to play against anymore as you guys had way too much power over the rest of the wvw players.

Jana.6831:

lil devils x.6071:

I do believe it is based on the number of players that actually go in to wvw, however, you are correct that it is still based on the PVE populations, due to the number of PVE players that come in just to do their dailies or champs and leave. The Top servers have a large enough PVE population coming in just to do dailies that even if the wvw players all stopped playing they would probably still be marked full from the people doing dailies alone.

I feel so bad for T1 NA! Really I do – I mean you can’t even find time anymore to play because you have to tell us just how bad things are for your server, your family and coworkers. And that even though none of us really knows how things will turn out as this system is brand new.

Honestly: Had it stayed like it was there wouldn’t have been anyone (except T1+2) to play against anymore as you guys had way too much power over the rest of the wvw players.

It should not have stayed like it was, I discussed that months ago last time T3 was broken, it not staying like it was and implementing poorly thought out restrictions that do not actually solve the problems are two separate issues. I do not recall anyone stating it should stay like it was, it was broken, they just chose to break it more rather than solve the problems. * Had * too much power? LOL no one * lost* power. That is silly, my server didn’t actually lose anything at all, not even one guild left that does not still have accounts here.

My not being able to play in wvw right now has nothing to do with “not having time to discuss the issues”, it has to do with my father being in the hospital atm and being unable to get bogged down in fights when I have to stop and handle other things every few min. I do not waste space in wvw maps to AFK with RL issues. Sadly I could not even ask my Dad to play with me on this game while he is recovering, because he would not even be able to get on the server either.

(EDIT: In addition, the GvG move to T3 was happening without the changes due to server politics, so T3 would still have changed regardless. The move to T3 actually was hindered by the changes as guilds had already started to move then realized they would not be able to move back to full servers so then people started moving alts around . It is expected for some current T2 servers to drop due to the alliances formed as it is. As far s our match up goes this week, last week I felt bad for BG, it felt like they just gave up. I honestly think they could use a win to help moral, as I feel we usually have better fights from BG than TC as BG will at least com out and fight us. IF anyone drops from T1, I would rather it be TC than BG since BG uses less Arrowcarts )

lil devils x.6071:

It should not have stayed like it was, I discussed that months ago last time T3 was broken, it not staying like it was and implementing poorly thought out restrictions that do not actually solve the problems are two separate issues. I do not recall anyone stating it should stay like it was, it was broken, they just chose to break it more rather than solve the problems. * Had * too much power? LOL no one * lost* power. That is silly, my server didn’t actually lose anything at all, not even one guild left that does not still have accounts here.

My not being able to play in wvw right now has nothing to do with “havign time to discuss the issues”, it has to do with my father being in the hospital atm and being unable to get bogged down in fights when I have to stop and handle other things every few min. I do not waste space in wvw maps to AFK with RL issues. Sadly I could not even ask my Dad to play with me on this game while he is recovering, because he would not even be able to get on the server either.

In your head it wasn’t broken – in reality it was. Look at the NA standings, look at how servers have been pushed. It’s hard against 2 servers hand holding, that no matter what tier and if these 2 servers push out every other server it’s unhealthy. I can imagine quite a lot of people quit because of that behaviour and the new system tries to even wvw populations out which is a good start for real competition – what good is it if all wvw players have their T1-6 while everybody else quits out of frustration as no matter what you do, how good you are, there’s always rigged matches.
That’s not what anet intended to to, they just measured the wvw population wheras it was wvw and pve before that. This is just a side effect. Like I said before: Your server has been full for now what? 1,5 years? 2 years? and still there were loopholes of a few minutes a day in which people could sign up for that server. How is that better for a new player?
You still think that a wvw server needs 24/7 coverage – in reality that’s insane and nothing that can be achieved except if every server is world wide.

I can play wvw whenever I want. On EU with only EU timezones, I always find crazies to beat or to play with – I don’t need blob fights 24/7.
And it seems as if this new system really does good but that is a bit more complicated. At least it became cheaper to transfer and at least no wvw population can stack endlessly on a few servers. It will take a while until we can say what changed for the better or worse – I don’t think you need to worry, though. Your only problem is that you can’t get your sister onto your server – you could have bought another account beforehand – I mean they announced the changes? And the upper NA tiers seem to be prepared for anything, so why not for that as well?

Jana.6831:

lil devils x.6071:

It should not have stayed like it was, I discussed that months ago last time T3 was broken, it not staying like it was and implementing poorly thought out restrictions that do not actually solve the problems are two separate issues. I do not recall anyone stating it should stay like it was, it was broken, they just chose to break it more rather than solve the problems. * Had * too much power? LOL no one * lost* power. That is silly, my server didn’t actually lose anything at all, not even one guild left that does not still have accounts here.

My not being able to play in wvw right now has nothing to do with “havign time to discuss the issues”, it has to do with my father being in the hospital atm and being unable to get bogged down in fights when I have to stop and handle other things every few min. I do not waste space in wvw maps to AFK with RL issues. Sadly I could not even ask my Dad to play with me on this game while he is recovering, because he would not even be able to get on the server either.

In your head it wasn’t broken – in reality it was. Look at the NA standings, look at how servers have been pushed. It’s hard against 2 servers hand holding, that no matter what tier and if these 2 servers push out every other server it’s unhealthy. I can imagine quite a lot of people quit because of that behaviour and the new system tries to even wvw populations out which is a good start for real competition – what good is it if all wvw players have their T1-6 while everybody else quits out of frustration as no matter what you do, how good you are, there’s always rigged matches.
Snipped due to being maxed

In whose head it wasn’t broken? Re-read my first line in the quote you quoted. It WAS broken , IS STILL broken and they broke it worse rather than fix it right the first time. ( T3 last time it was broken was last time it was broken to the point of being unplayable not that it was not broken in other ways still) LOL It isn’t “unbroken” now. HAHA It is just broke more. " any change =\= change that solves the problems" It is just a change that creates more problems than it solves. YOU can play whenever you want, but not everyone else has that luxury. Most players only have certain times they can play and should be able to be able to play when they log in. Some people can only play a couple of hours a day, if those couple of hours they are able to log in they are not able to play with and against others, the game is either dead or broken, This was only made worse, not better.

Just mashing random players together does not solve the problems, that is what they do in EoTM and you see how well that works. PLayers have to be able to havea choice where they play and who they play with for it to work, otherwise toxic communities just continue to run players off from the game. On some servers, they just use map chat to flame players and troll rather than try to be helpful and make calls. Players stuck on those servers unable to move to organized communities will leave the game before they continue to endure the toxic servers. Forcing players to play on servers that do not use team speak or work together isn’t going to make those servers better, it is just going to make those players leave.

Expecting players to have the option to play where there is 24/7 coverage is not expecting more than what other games ALREADY provide. That isn’t insane, that is just what playing a “not dead or broken” game feels like. It isn’t like this is the only mmorpg in existence. Others are able to accomplish this easily and that is where players will go if they do not bother to repair it.

My “only” problem is not that I am unable to get my sister on to my server, it is no one on full servers can get their friends and family on, that we cannot even recommend the game to anyone anymore, that the game play will go stale due to ANet running people off. I am concerned at how this leaves the state of the game, and the many players in it, not just my situation. I am concerned the fun players to fight against will quit GW over it and we will get stuck with nubs on Arrow carts to fight against instead. IF that is what we get left with, none of the good players will stay, they will all leave the game and play where there is actual players to fight with and against elsewhere. We wanted to play this game with friends and family and have good fights, if Anet is making it so we cannot do so here, we will just have to move on to other games where we can do so. Speaking up here is an attempt to prevent that from happening, but yea if they don;t listen and keep this nonsense, that is where it will end up. It isn’t like they were the first game to attempt to lock servers, no this system is not " brand new" other games have made this mistake before, we already know where this ends.

Bottom line the population “changes” so far have been nothing but smoke and mirrors and, if nothing, have actually wounded the WvW community even further by misleading potential new players.
They just locked the top into their little bubble (again I have nothing again T1 players, just a fact) and left all the “medium” peons to rot in the sun : )

lil devils x.6071:

It should not have stayed like it was, I discussed that months ago last time T3 was broken, it not staying like it was and implementing poorly thought out restrictions that do not actually solve the problems are two separate issues.

The changes have got nothing to do with how T3 is broken – the changes aren’t about you.

lil devils x.6071:

I do not recall anyone stating it should stay like it was, it was broken, they just chose to break it more rather than solve the problems. * Had * too much power? LOL no one * lost* power. That is silly, my server didn’t actually lose anything at all, not even one guild left that does not still have accounts here.

Like I said above: this change was nothing to solve any problems you guys have in the upper tiers but it will restrict you at some point.

lil devils x.6071:

My not being able to play in wvw right now has nothing to do with “havign time to discuss the issues”, it has to do with my father being in the hospital atm and being unable to get bogged down in fights when I have to stop and handle other things every few min. I do not waste space in wvw maps to AFK with RL issues. Sadly I could not even ask my Dad to play with me on this game while he is recovering, because he would not even be able to get on the server either.

Get a second account and play with your family and friends on a different server – maybe they enjoy it more than you think they would because you have a weird opinion of how things should be. And btw: It was a joke, I don’t really care why you don’t play, I just wonder why you don’t get that your opinion is flawed.

lil devils x.6071:

snip because I would repeat myself once again

lil devils x.6071:

Just mashing random players together does not solve the problems, that is what they do in EoTM and you see how well that works.

EotM is a whole different thing than wvw and I’m always transferring alone and make friends on every server I’m on (except SBI, haven’t been there long enough) – you can build a community, you know? We don’t all have to be preset and perfect and then decide to transfer to a server.

lil devils x.6071:

PLayers have to be able to havea choice where they play and who they play with for it to work, otherwise toxic communities just continue to run players off from the game.

True but it doesn’t say that only the “full” servers have got healthy communities

lil devils x.6071:

Expecting players to have the option to play where there is 24/7 coverage is not expecting more than what other games ALREADY provide.

That would be playing against npcs – otherwise a 24/7 coverage on 2 continents isn’t possible – try to understand that.

lil devils x.6071:

My “only” problem is not that I am unable to get my sister on to my server, it is no one on full servers can get their friends and family on, that we cannot even recommend the game to anyone anymore,

Then don’t recommend it – you still don’t get it – what guys did to NA was what was toxic and maybe this system will help the wvw community as a whole. There are more people than T1 and you. Please, try to get that, alright?

Shrubsy.9720:

lil devils x.6071:

Shrubsy.9720:

fishball.7204:

If you’re happy where you are and T1/2 are happy where they are why do you care at all then. Why would you want T1/2 to take one for the team and change the status quo that as you say, you prefer to be.

Also, honestly if you guys think there are enough OCX players to spread to 24 servers while maintaining any semblance of WvW at all then I have a bridge to sell to you.

I didn’t say where I am in T4 is perfect now, and no additional server will ever grow to the size of current T1 servers under the system. Regardless of whether the GvG guild moves was planned yesterday, or two years ago (an irrelevant point), T3 is likely to fill up. Population will then overflow into T4, and continue to cascade creating a fairly stable population on as many servers as the WvW population can support.

Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the current system? I think so. Is it better than most of the systems otherwise suggested that would require a total restructuring of core components of the game? I think so.

“Population” yes, but only for peak timezones. You can have map ques on all maps during primetime and have a ghost town a few hours later. That does nothing to solve the actual problem of " coverage wars". Every player logging in regardless of time they have available to play should have players to play with and against. Anything less than that is a broken system. Making it so the only oceanic player on a server is unable to move somewhere to play with other oceanic players only further breaks the game rather than repairs it. That isn’t better at all for every new player coming in to that and leaving due to it.

They already restructured core components of the game when they went mega server, now they have to restructure this due to what they broke.

They did test this. It’s called EotM. Out of curiosity, what makes you think putting WvW on the same system as EotM wouldn’t turn it into the same kind of kittenshow?

Not the same system. They need a much better system than the terrible EotM color based system that puts people together randomly.

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

Xillllix.3485:

Not the same system. They need a much better system than the terrible EotM color based system that puts people together randomly.

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

How would an ESO guesting system solve stubborn players? T1/2 servers arent full even if the population stats says they are, players are more than willing to sit in 50 man queues to EB when all 3 borders are empty. Players go where commanders are, end of story. Why would they guest another server… unless that has a commander and is queued?

EoTM is indeed terrible, but it only works because its random.

I’m glad to hear of these upcoming changes!

Another thing that would be helpful is a chat or areas that is for our server only. It is extremely difficult to contact people that are not on your friend’s list, to recruit help in wvw, and a person simply cannot be friends with the entire server. This would also help encourage new players to enter wvw with people from their own server.

Any updates on rewards for defending, building siege, siege refresh rates, etc? I personally wouldn’t be opposed to having another tier of siege which was more expensive, but, lasted 6 hours without refreshing. 1 hour is fine for the basice siege, but, superior should last longer. Some of us are chronically broke defending.

Xillllix.3485:

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

In a perfect world, that might work....but, this isn’t a perfect world. We’ve had guesting before, and enemies would guest to other servers on their accounts to gain information, and generally muck things up...throwing troll siege, wasting supplies, destroying golems....much like they do with cheap alt accounts now.

What would be helpful is a system which only allows a percentage maximum overage of players instead of the outnumbered buff. Outnumbered only works if you have enough players on to actually fight. If a server only has 20-30 players across all borderlands at a given time, they cannot possibly fight and win against two 20+ man zergs on each map. We need a better balanced system.

Added: We also need a system which discourages any 2 servers to work together against another. It ruins morale to have 2 servers focusing one, and does cause hardcore wvw’ers to leave the game both short and long term....this is not good for the balance of the game or Anet’s pocketbook.

Jana.6831:

Snipped

Telling players to " get a second account or to pay more money" to be able to play the game with or against players or with friends and family is not acceptable at all, and yes players telling them to kitten off when told to do so are in the right here, as that is terrible customer service. That is not an acceptable response, nor should anyone accept it as one. Not only does it not solve the problem at all, as " family and friends" is entire guilds and allies, it ALSO is expecting players to pay for substandard broken half kittened mechanics rather than expect them to be resolved. They should not be forced to pay for others mistakes.

No players should not be forced to pay for their broken system. This does nothing to solve the problems for new payers coming into the game and those on lower tiers that are unhappy to be there.

EoTM is not a " whole different thing" it was created as the testing grounds for wvw and that is it’s reason for existing. What they are testing in EoTM is what they were planning on implementing in wvw.

See:
" Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to WvW"
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists

Other games have 24/7 coverage because their system is not broken, please try to understand that not all games are incompetent when it comes to designing systems that allow players to have players to play with and against. I am not the one having an issue " getting it" , you should heed your own advice, maybe get out and play some different games and see how different systems work so you could better understand them.

Taking your own advice maybe you would see that if players were happy playing the way you do, or the way you think " they should play" , you would not need to hold them hostage on a server and allow them to move freely as they would not leave if they were actually happy there. You do not make players happy by trying to force them to play where they are unhappy, no, they just leave if that isn’t what is fun for them. You do not have to cage " happy people" LOL

Of course you seem to think you know what is best for them more than they do, I think people can decide for themselves where they want to be and who they want to play with and do not need you or anyone else to decide that for them. ALL paid to play this game, all should be able to choose to enjoy it how they see fit. I do not think anyone died and named you dictator of WvW, nor has anyone asked you to represent what WvW players want or asked you to decide that for them. Players should be able to enjoy the different play styles ( roaming, gvg, havoc and zerging) without being told they cannot do so because " you don’t like it when they do."

Doll Mistress.9267:

Xillllix.3485:

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

In a perfect world, that might work….but, this isn’t a perfect world. We’ve had guesting before, and enemies would guest to other servers on their accounts to gain information, and generally muck things up…throwing troll siege, wasting supplies, destroying golems….much like they do with cheap alt accounts now.

What would be helpful is a system which only allows a percentage maximum overage of players instead of the outnumbered buff. Outnumbered only works if you have enough players on to actually fight. If a server only has 20-30 players across all borderlands at a given time, they cannot possibly fight and win against two 20+ man zergs on each map. We need a better balanced system.

2 things:
1- In ESO you can only guest on servers of the same alliances, you will have no WvW xp and I believe no rewards, but you will not be turning the tides of a fight by guesting to an opposite faction. Basically the server population is public (in real time), and you can guest on a lower population server (called campaign) where your alliance is losing. ESO has other gameplay problems (map is too big) but for the server system they got it right. You never have to wait in queue and the server populations are pretty much equal.

2- I’ve been proposing a system to make the losing servers catch-up. It’s really simple: 1ppk (point per kill) for the top server, 2ppk for the second server and 3ppk for the losing server. It would make fight guilds even more important and contribute in their own way.

Outnumbered buff has a problem in terms that its a passive buff, what we need is an active solution that rewards playing. That was the intent of the ORB before they removed it.

Doll Mistress.9267:

Xillllix.3485:

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

In a perfect world, that might work….but, this isn’t a perfect world. We’ve had guesting before, and enemies would guest to other servers on their accounts to gain information, and generally muck things up…throwing troll siege, wasting supplies, destroying golems….much like they do with cheap alt accounts now.

What would be helpful is a system which only allows a percentage maximum overage of players instead of the outnumbered buff. Outnumbered only works if you have enough players on to actually fight. If a server only has 20-30 players across all borderlands at a given time, they cannot possibly fight and win against two 20+ man zergs on each map. We need a better balanced system.

Added: We also need a system which discourages any 2 servers to work together against another. It ruins morale to have 2 servers focusing one, and does cause hardcore wvw’ers to leave the game both short and long term….this is not good for the balance of the game or Anet’s pocketbook.

I actually love it when they 2 v 1 us and love it even more when a Anet Dev is on one of the teams doing it at the time. LOL
That is hands down the best gameplay as far as I am concerned. When we are outnumbered, all walls down no siege fighting for hours in lords. If you fight and win all the better, you earned it. If you fight and lose, you should have fought better and learn from your mistakes to make sure it doesn’t happen next time.

I want them double teaming us in our keeps, otherwise we would be bored. That is the purpose of the 3 way fights.

lil devils x.6071:

I actually love it when they 2 v 1 us and love it even more when a Anet Dev is on one of the teams doing it at the time. LOL
That is hands down the best gameplay as far as I am concerned. When we are outnumbered, all walls down no siege fighting for hours in lords. If you fight and win all the better, you earned it. If you fight and lose, you should have fought better and learn from your mistakes to make sure it doesn’t happen next time.

I want them double teaming us in our keeps, otherwise we would be bored. That is the purpose of the 3 way fights.

Yeah because 8 people defending against 50-60 is loads of fun. SMH (There have been countless times like that on my server during the time of day I play)

If it were balanced fights, I’d agree that it can be fun, but, I’m not talking about balanced fights.

Doll Mistress.9267:

lil devils x.6071:

Doll Mistress.9267:

Xillllix.3485:

They need a campaign system with a guesting system, like ESO has. Basically you would have a server, but if your server is full you can guest on a server of the same alliance with a loot penalty and lack of reward, just for fights. You can only guest on 1 server per week. (so you have a guest server and a home server)

The only reason EotM is a useless Karma train is because they have removed it from the PPT score and made the walls non-upgradable.

In a perfect world, that might work….but, this isn’t a perfect world. We’ve had guesting before, and enemies would guest to other servers on their accounts to gain information, and generally muck things up…throwing troll siege, wasting supplies, destroying golems….much like they do with cheap alt accounts now.

What would be helpful is a system which only allows a percentage maximum overage of players instead of the outnumbered buff. Outnumbered only works if you have enough players on to actually fight. If a server only has 20-30 players across all borderlands at a given time, they cannot possibly fight and win against two 20+ man zergs on each map. We need a better balanced system.

Added: We also need a system which discourages any 2 servers to work together against another. It ruins morale to have 2 servers focusing one, and does cause hardcore wvw’ers to leave the game both short and long term….this is not good for the balance of the game or Anet’s pocketbook.

I actually love it when they 2 v 1 us and love it even more when a Anet Dev is on one of the teams doing it at the time. LOL
That is hands down the best gameplay as far as I am concerned. When we are outnumbered, all walls down no siege fighting for hours in lords. If you fight and win all the better, you earned it. If you fight and lose, you should have fought better and learn from your mistakes to make sure it doesn’t happen next time.

I want them double teaming us in our keeps, otherwise we would be bored. That is the purpose of the 3 way fights.

Yeah because 8 people defending against 50-60 is loads of fun. SMH (There have been countless times like that on my server during the time of day I play)

If it were balanced fights, I’d agree that it can be fun, but, I’m not talking about balanced fights.

That is " coverage wars" issues not a 2 v 1 issue. The issue is a server that only has 8 people to defend should not be fighting servers that have 30 on the other teams. They need to resolve coverage wars by not having too many servers open or unlinking wvw from servers all together. They have done nothing at all to help resolve the coverage wars issues as holding people hostage into low pop servers does not suddenly give them 24/7 coverage and battles, it just ensures you have more unhappy players.

They need to once and for all solve coverage wars instead of breaking it worse to solve that issue.

EDIT: Just an idea though, if they are going to separate players into servers, they should start with making text servers and voice servers to really make things better for players.

OF course the text servers would be completely face rolled by voice servers, but maybe that would better e tier separation than their current method to help balance out the communities as usually text players and voice player hate each other existing on their servers and would make each community much less toxic.

lil devils x.6071:

That is " coverage wars" issues not a 2 v 1 issue. The issue is a server that only has 8 people to defend should not be fighting servers that have 30 on the other teams. They need to resolve coverage wars by not having too many servers open or unlinking wvw from servers all together. They have done nothing at all to help resolve the coverage wars issues as holding people hostage into low pop servers does not suddenly give them 24/7 coverage and battles, it just ensures you have more unhappy players.

They need to once and for all solve coverage wars instead of breaking it worse to solve that issue.

I agree somewhat. The “coverage wars” issue is made far worse by servers that 2 vs 1. Coverage wars is why many gripe about the short length of time on siege timers….they don’t even allow the person refreshing siege to break for a bite to eat. However, that is only part of my gripe.

I’m on a mid ranked server. I have seen teaming of servers that lasts for match after match almost endlessly. It gets old fast. When your numbers are low, even if a server has better skilled players, the sheer blob wipes them in a few seconds. The mid-ranked wvw servers have this problem frequently.

That’s why I’ve asked for a percentage balance in one of my posts. If a server can only be outnumbered by a certain percent, then fights would be more based on skill rather than blob.

I also believe that server transfers should be limited to only twice per year, although I think they should be free or much cheaper for at least a week or two so a player can better find a home.

The biggest problem with these changes is that the Dev’s idea of a WvW population appears to be much smaller than the map queues. Seriously, how long would a player have to play per day to keep the maps full? Would we have to play for 5 hours a day, 10 hours a day, or even more? My guess is that it would be far more hours per day than any of us have to give.

All I know is playing is not as fun as it was. I tried to solo an enemy Bay this morning because there was no one else on map. I’d rather play a console game than PvD by myself. And yet, this is on a “Full” server. Sure sure, that population sounds about right……. /sarcasm. Making matters worse, after I got to inner I got wiped by a freak’n cancer build.

….. we need new dev’s….
editing to add that yes, I understand that it management’s fault really. What usually screws things up is an accountant, a lawyer, or suit/board member.

So a question for the poster who says his friends and family are on another “ghost town” server. Why weren’t they on your server to start? Why did they stay on a “ghost town” server for this long to all of a sudden, after ANet changed the transfer protocol, want to move to a server that has topped T1 for months on end?

Kaiser.9873:

So a question for the poster who says his friends and family are on another “ghost town” server. Why weren’t they on your server to start? Why did they stay on a “ghost town” server for this long to all of a sudden, after ANet changed the transfer protocol, want to move to a server that has topped T1 for months on end?

most of the time new players would see “full” on the server list and click elsewhere when just starting the game, and had to be told later that “full” didnt mean “full” and there were ways to slip through the cracks and get in, but it would require either autoclickers or luck or 1800 gems/restarting from scratch or all 3. newer players may have been lazy about doing all that, perhaps not even caring about wvw until finishing other things like getting to 80 or map completion or whatever. (really. would you wanna delete your toons to maybe transfer? you werent even guaranteed to get in, maybe for more than a week).

his complaint is that now “full” means “kitten you its full” and hes already established himself under the assumption that “full” means “can still slip through the cracks”.

Jayne.9251:

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

Looking at the MOS, T3 NA looks really really healthy now. GJ!

T3 NA increased populations have nothing to do with the changes however, It is due to all the GvG in T2 choosing to make T3 the new GvG tier prior to the changes in protest of a new alliance and attempt to move YB to T1. All of this was decided prior to the changes being announced, and not due to them. They will ensure that the new T3 GvG servers stay where they want them predetermining the winner every week to ensure they do not move up or drop down. The servers being taken over by the GvG guilds will now be the new GvG tier as it was in T2.

No offense to the lower tiers, but if these guilds are just looking for GvG, why not go lower like T5-T8 where there is plenty of room for fights, especially if they are not looking to score any points. As far as fixing the outcome for the week, yeah I don’t think most of the existing servers in those tiers would appreciate/accept that kind of behavior. That might make things ugly.

That’s the common misconception about GvG guilds … That that is all they do, when often if a healthy and respectful relationship is created on both sides, they become the backbone of the server and biggest contributors to ppt.

It’s when toxic relationships are created that things tend to go sour. You can’t GvG 24/7, and often members of GvG guilds become part of the pug force when not skedded to raid.

It is not a misconception. While it is true that that they have some people that run in public groups, and some of them help, most do not. I have been witnessing it for a long time now.

Most of them just take up que space and prevent BL defense. Only some help out.

In addition, they are simply not a part of community, which is a major factor. When is the last time any of you have seen a guild like Agg for example in SOS TS public WvW channels (while they were there) leading a pug raid or taking their fair turn at babysitting a map for defense ? I have seen some of the GvG guilds do it, sometimes, but most do not.

Tongku.5326:

Jayne.9251:

TheGrimm.5624:

lil devils x.6071:

Jayne.9251:

Looking at the MOS, T3 NA looks really really healthy now. GJ!

T3 NA increased populations have nothing to do with the changes however, It is due to all the GvG in T2 choosing to make T3 the new GvG tier prior to the changes in protest of a new alliance and attempt to move YB to T1. All of this was decided prior to the changes being announced, and not due to them. They will ensure that the new T3 GvG servers stay where they want them predetermining the winner every week to ensure they do not move up or drop down. The servers being taken over by the GvG guilds will now be the new GvG tier as it was in T2.

No offense to the lower tiers, but if these guilds are just looking for GvG, why not go lower like T5-T8 where there is plenty of room for fights, especially if they are not looking to score any points. As far as fixing the outcome for the week, yeah I don’t think most of the existing servers in those tiers would appreciate/accept that kind of behavior. That might make things ugly.

That’s the common misconception about GvG guilds … That that is all they do, when often if a healthy and respectful relationship is created on both sides, they become the backbone of the server and biggest contributors to ppt.

It’s when toxic relationships are created that things tend to go sour. You can’t GvG 24/7, and often members of GvG guilds become part of the pug force when not skedded to raid.

It is not a misconception. While it is true that that they have some people that run in public groups, and some of them help, most do not. I have been witnessing it for a long time now.

Most of them just take up que space and prevent BL defense. Only some help out.

In addition, they are simply not a part of community, which is a major factor. When is the last time any of you have seen a guild like Agg for example in SOS TS public WvW channels (while they were there) leading a pug raid or taking their fair turn at babysitting a map for defense ? I have seen some of the GvG guilds do it, sometimes, but most do not.

Agg used to ppt for their server until the whole animosity thing reared its head. Same with EP and those Dull Ego guys and other GvG guilds.

Then the great divide happened. Us vs Them. PPT vs GvG. Harassment in map, in whispers, on forums, etc .. And of course, through hostility out of both camps, that rift became bigger until every group was out for what IT wanted, instead of working together for a common goal.

Can bridges be rebuilt? I think so.

But the screaming has to stop.

You cannot force anyone to play the way you want them to play. You can simply respect their style of gameplay and hope for cooperation. Build respect and I wouldn’t be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of emotional attachment to the server and its resultant pride.

But you have to swallow your own first.

This is the way it’s played on most servers on EU. The GvG guilds come onto map, they occupy the enemy with big big fights, while a core group of defenders (sometimes as few as eight) claim the map and shore up the defense. And it’s remarkable to watch it in play because it’s very VERY effective. And everyone wins.

I used to be in your camp that GvG were messing WITH MAH PPT! And then I moved to EU and saw how it totally can happen without the grief and rage. The two CAN coexist.

Also, this thread is becoming TDLR.

Blech.

Jayne, you’ve been gone a long time and as I understand you don’t play on NA servers anymore. What you talk about is from a time now passed. A lot of the players still in the GvG scene are burnt out from the PPT thing and don’t find fighting big pug forces particularly interesting anymore because those kinds of fights tend to be too easy. A lot of them have already “been there and done that” in WvW.

WvW and GvG is really going separate ways in NA. Yes, a lot of PPT v. GvG trolling went on, from both sides, but that isn’t necessarily why things evolved the way they did. It’s a separate game mode at this point. Players more interested in GvG are going to place that interest above PPTing on a server just as a PvE player is going to prioritize Tequatl over a Bay cap.

Ah, you’re right. I’ve been away from NA wvw for a while and I only know what I see works in EU.

That’s a shame. Both sides can coexist. And it’s a lot of fun for all.

Kaiser.9873:

So a question for the poster who says his friends and family are on another “ghost town” server. Why weren’t they on your server to start? Why did they stay on a “ghost town” server for this long to all of a sudden, after ANet changed the transfer protocol, want to move to a server that has topped T1 for months on end?

She didn’t start the game until after my server was full, and has been at work during the small times it was open. She was waiting for a day off to be able to move over, now she is just looking for a new game for us to play together due to this. That is how it is now for anyone on a full server, they should not even bother asking friends family or coworkers to come play with them now since they will not be able to. Systems like this only ensure players go elsewhere to play games together instead of play this one. IF you can go to another game that not only does not charge you to play with friends, it also allows you to play with them all, why would you try to do so on one that doesn’t? ALL this does is send players elsewhere causing a decline in the game population further.