Guild Wars 2

One word comes to mind… blow-out.
4/5 of all the matches aren’t even a competition.

Where’s the challenge?

A summary of this week in EU (based on scores):
Gold:
SFR – ER – Kodash (SFR has 5 to 3) FAIL
RS – AR – Piken (AR 3 to 4)
Baruch – Viz – JS (Viz has 5 to 3) FAIL

Silver:
AM – GH – UW (worst match-up: 6 to 3 / 6 to 2 for AM) FAIL
AG – FSP – Gandara (FSP clearly less coverage again)
FR – Deso – MS (Deso leading 9 to 6) FAIL

Bronze:
Dzag – RoS – Vabbi (again no challenge at all 5 to 1 for RoS, 4 to 1 for Dzag) FAIL
BT – WSR – RoF (7 to 2, 7 to 1) FAIL
FoW – DL – Arbor (DL leading 7/8 to 1) FAIL

So out of 9 match-ups, 7 are a complete blow-out without any challenge at all, but purely based on the fact that one or two servers have a population of perhaps 5 times as high as the other server/servers. This means that nearly 80% is a fail.

Is this what WvW is supposed to be or is this part of the game just completely screwed up?

I think this is a problem that only Arenanet can solve. Whilst they have implemented a scaling tariff for transfers, this seems to be a very watered down measure and I believe that something much more draconian is necessary. This isn’t some ideological free market hokum, you can’t expect it to magically correct itself.

the solution would be to put the wvw map in the spvp area – and kill the scoring on the open world wvw – but no one seemed to like that idea because it would do serious blob control and actually be based on skill and fight sizes all servers can sustain.

want to fight a t1 server ? fine…just set the map to the max number the lower servers can provide.

This has been brought up so many times by people, including myself. The fix is in the hands of Anet, but it appears they just don’t care.

sostronk.8167:

This has been brought up so many times by people, including myself. The fix is in the hands of Anet, but it appears they just don’t care.

That’s what I don’t get. How can they not care? It’s their product, and WvW is about the only end-game this game has (Forget champion farming seriously, it’s a mindless grind and dungeons and fractals are as much.)

Do they really want people who want a serious competitive game, to go off to the next big hit?

This week was supposed to be blowout week. Look at the schedule. It is just like in the NCAA tournment, when 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc, you get a lot of blow outs.

I’m on SBI, and the matchup for us is 7 v 11 v 15. Of course we are blowing them out.
On the other hand, FA’s matchup is 8 vs 10 vs 14. Now, they should in theory, be blowing out their competition, but they are losing atm. They will prevail during the week.

Every league will have blowouts, that is just how it goes (I am talking about a much bigger picture than just WvW). Leagues are designed to be competitive, so you are fighting for your wins. In this case, you are fighting for 5 points or 3 points (I hope no one is really fighting for 1 point).

Just stay focused, get through the week, and plan for the next match up. Which might, or might not, be a blowout.

it would not be that way in controlled que spvp matches. There would be many underdog matches that would show who the real T1 servers should be.

Andrew Clear.1750:

This week was supposed to be blowout week. Look at the schedule. It is just like in the NCAA tournment, when 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc, you get a lot of blow outs.

I’m on SBI, and the matchup for us is 7 v 11 v 15. Of course we are blowing them out.
On the other hand, FA’s matchup is 8 vs 10 vs 14. Now, they should in theory, be blowing out their competition, but they are losing atm. They will prevail during the week.

Every league will have blowouts, that is just how it goes (I am talking about a much bigger picture than just WvW). Leagues are designed to be competitive, so you are fighting for your wins. In this case, you are fighting for 5 points or 3 points (I hope no one is really fighting for 1 point).

Just stay focused, get through the week, and plan for the next match up. Which might, or might not, be a blowout.

I think you missed my point. My point isn’t that there are blow-outs.

My point is that servers with a higher population and coverage will win from other servers, making it no competition because it is predictable. You don’t need to know anything about this week to see that if Server X has 100% population on all maps at all times, will win from Server Y and Z that have 70% population.

And the conclusion is: this system does not work. Servers will always have more or less numbers and the ones with more will always win. It’s not about skill.

The game mode is broken.

Andrew Clear.1750:

This week was supposed to be blowout week. Look at the schedule. It is just like in the NCAA tournment, when 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc, you get a lot of blow outs.

I’m on SBI, and the matchup for us is 7 v 11 v 15. Of course we are blowing them out.
On the other hand, FA’s matchup is 8 vs 10 vs 14. Now, they should in theory, be blowing out their competition, but they are losing atm. They will prevail during the week.

Every league will have blowouts, that is just how it goes (I am talking about a much bigger picture than just WvW). Leagues are designed to be competitive, so you are fighting for your wins. In this case, you are fighting for 5 points or 3 points (I hope no one is really fighting for 1 point).

Just stay focused, get through the week, and plan for the next match up. Which might, or might not, be a blowout.

“Leagues are supposed to be competitive.”

When I bought this game and got big into WvW, there was no mechanisms in place to guarantee months of blowouts (SoS has already been fighting t1+ TC for 5 weeks straight and have 5 more for certain and possibly even more after the season thanks to RNG.

As messed up as tiers could get at times, you were never fighting anyone ranked more than 2 ranks higher. Now we’re being led to believe that Northern Shiverpeaks T6(some sort of sandbagging by other servers I guess got them to T5) issupposed to be competitive with a server that was a hair away from being Tier 2?

It’s just not cricket.

Chris.3290:

Andrew Clear.1750:

This week was supposed to be blowout week. Look at the schedule. It is just like in the NCAA tournment, when 1 v 16, 2 v 15, etc, you get a lot of blow outs.

I’m on SBI, and the matchup for us is 7 v 11 v 15. Of course we are blowing them out.
On the other hand, FA’s matchup is 8 vs 10 vs 14. Now, they should in theory, be blowing out their competition, but they are losing atm. They will prevail during the week.

Every league will have blowouts, that is just how it goes (I am talking about a much bigger picture than just WvW). Leagues are designed to be competitive, so you are fighting for your wins. In this case, you are fighting for 5 points or 3 points (I hope no one is really fighting for 1 point).

Just stay focused, get through the week, and plan for the next match up. Which might, or might not, be a blowout.

“Leagues are supposed to be competitive.”

When I bought this game and got big into WvW, there was no mechanisms in place to guarantee months of blowouts (SoS has already been fighting t1+ TC for 5 weeks straight and have 5 more for certain and possibly even more after the season thanks to RNG.

As messed up as tiers could get at times, you were never fighting anyone ranked more than 2 ranks higher. Now we’re being led to believe that Northern Shiverpeaks T6(some sort of sandbagging by other servers I guess got them to T5) issupposed to be competitive with a server that was a hair away from being Tier 2?

It’s just not cricket.

Actually, with all the transfers off of IoJ, NSP will not finish last in the Silver League.

We don’t know how server transfers, PvE players, morale, etc, will effect the outcome of the leagues. Yes, population and coverage is king, and in a 24/7 match up, coverage will always be king.

And, didn’t everyone say SBI was gonna roll the Silver League? Well, we lost our 1st match to FA, who got a guild a few days before leagues started, as well as they were able to rally PvE guilds to their cause in WvW. They had better organization as well, and were able to demoralize some of our fair weathers, and they rolled to victory. Also, DB didn’t really show up until oceanic and sea time.

Now, FA is having a battle this reset weekend with YB. So, there is some competition going on with the leagues, and the outcome isn’t completely determined yet.

This game mode as a whole is definitely unfair, and probably impossible to balance.
But lets remember how leagues work and what they are for…
You might not win with a bottom feeder server against the top dog server, but you might try to get out of that last spot, and in my book that should be counted as success.

Think of it as a football season where last team from 1st league moves one tier down and top team from 2nd league is rewarded with the chance to compete with the best.

why would they care when they are making so much in gems?

when the next decent mmo with rvr comes out people are going to leave this game in the dust.

Sirendor.1394:

We have quite ‘nuff of that thank you. We keep low tier small scale for a reason, to make it full and free of skill lagg and queues. If blobbing guilds from blobbing servers come here, they’ll mess up the whole concept.

So know this: if you transfer to Vabbi, don’t expect anything else than the whole server asking you to leave.

I guess we found the reason.

the difference in football is both teams have the same size, not a team of 150 vs 65

I find happiness in farming the enemy – no matter what size. if we get camped, all the better – free loot.

Sirendor.1394:

And the conclusion is: this system does not work. Servers will always have more or less numbers and the ones with more will always win. It’s not about skill.

The game mode is broken.

Arenanet have stated that this, specifically, is something they both know about and intend to address. To quote Devon:

Devon Carver said,
Breaking up the Blob: We have some ideas here that are likely to come out next year, in the earlier portion of the year. It’s a complicated problem because of the principles of our game, namely that we don’t want to punish you for playing with more people. So it comes down to ways to incentivize and/or empower small groups more so than punishing large ones. That creates the problem of finding solutions that don’t help even larger groups. We have some ideas for changes to siege weapons that I think might help, but it is a major concern for us. To be clear, we are concerned about the value of skill over simple manpower. If you get together 50 skilled players operating in unison, we don’t want to hamper that. But we do think a smaller, more coordinated group should have the advantage over a larger, uncoordinated group.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/1

Devon Carver said,
We agree completely with the issues relating to score and population. We have some ideas for how to address this, but nothing is ready to be discussed yet as we haven’t moved beyond the idea phase. In my opinion its the single largest issue that still faces WvW and one that we intend to make major strides to address as soon as we can. The league itself doesn’t do much to address it, beyond the achievements which should provide some incentive to play winning or losing. We are approaching this exact problem with the mindset that is behind your question though, and that is that even if you are losing we want there to be a reason for you to keep playing. That’s a high level goal for us in WvW.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/2

Sirendor.1394:

One word comes to mind… blow-out.
4/5 of all the matches aren’t even a competition.

Where’s the challenge?

A summary of this week in EU (based on scores):
Gold:
SFR – ER – Kodash (SFR has 5 to 3) FAIL
RS – AR – Piken (AR 3 to 4)
Baruch – Viz – JS (Viz has 5 to 3) FAIL

Silver:
AM – GH – UW (worst match-up: 6 to 3 / 6 to 2 for AM) FAIL
AG – FSP – Gandara (FSP clearly less coverage again)
FR – Deso – MS (Deso leading 9 to 6) FAIL

Bronze:
Dzag – RoS – Vabbi (again no challenge at all 5 to 1 for RoS, 4 to 1 for Dzag) FAIL
BT – WSR – RoF (7 to 2, 7 to 1) FAIL
FoW – DL – Arbor (DL leading 7/8 to 1) FAIL

So out of 9 match-ups, 7 are a complete blow-out without any challenge at all, but purely based on the fact that one or two servers have a population of perhaps 5 times as high as the other server/servers. This means that nearly 80% is a fail.

Is this what WvW is supposed to be or is this part of the game just completely screwed up?

here’s the problem from a US stand point, the bottom server in US is AR, however according to the log in screen AR is a high pop server so when they were doing transfers to balance the game a couple weeks ago before the Leagues started there was no discount no insensitive for anyone to transfer to AR

Now possibly they are a high pop server, no one has ever gotten a look at the true numbers.

However that being said they have almost a non existent WvW crowd.

Just saying its hard to balance the servers with discounted transfer fees if the lower 6-9 servers are listed as High pop and get no discount

Ricky.4706:

the difference in football is both teams have the same size, not a team of 150 vs 65

But one team has tons of more money to spend on roster, salaries, advertising, has tons more revenues and allot bigger pool of fans (some say that fans make up for 12th player ).
Just look at random league W/D/L ratio between the league winner and league loser. How do you think the guys with stats from hell feel and do you think that the team that goes back home with golden chalice feels challenged while beating the weaker team by 6:0 ?

well there’s an idea – the oversized servers can keep the excess players on the sidelines cheering their server on in chat and ts. “come on guys you can do it, you’ll get sm back easy, they ain’t nuttin – don’t rage quit!!!” heh!

Sirendor.1394:

sostronk.8167:

This has been brought up so many times by people, including myself. The fix is in the hands of Anet, but it appears they just don’t care.

That’s what I don’t get. How can they not care? It’s their product, and WvW is about the only end-game this game has (Forget champion farming seriously, it’s a mindless grind and dungeons and fractals are as much.)

Do they really want people who want a serious competitive game, to go off to the next big hit?

Probably not since it’s probably going to be WildStar…another NCSoft title.

Anet hasn’t done anything to make WvW balanced, quite opposite they’ve stated it will never be balanced.

Apparently making mindless zergling gamemode and call it some kind of competition makes them more money than actually competitive pvp in any form. Looking at the numbers in game this is probably also true.

If WvW was actually even closely some kind of form of open world pvp, it would be actually fun. But it isn’t open world. It’s just whack-a-door. It doesn’t really reward you much, although it’s 1000x times more rewarding than this.. thing.. they call spvp. At least you get skins you can like.. use in whole game. Counting out spvp of course, it might unbalance things if armor would look same there.

I don’t even.. Me confuse.

gvaughn.4163:

why would they care when they are making so much in gems?

when the next decent mmo with rvr comes out people are going to leave this game in the dust.

Many of us already have and are playing somehting else while waiting for the next decent MMO with RvR.

Ricky.4706:

the difference in football is both teams have the same size, not a team of 150 vs 65

I find happiness in farming the enemy – no matter what size. if we get camped, all the better – free loot.

Whether they have the same size is irrelevant to the argument. NFL is more balanced due to the salary cap, but college is heavily imbalanced, no matter the size. Other pro leagues are heavily imbalanced due to payroll size.

Imbalanced, is imbalanced no matter if it is roster size, payroll size, recruiting advantages, etc.

Svarty.8019:

Sirendor.1394:

And the conclusion is: this system does not work. Servers will always have more or less numbers and the ones with more will always win. It’s not about skill.

The game mode is broken.

Arenanet have stated that this, specifically, is something they both know about and intend to address. To quote Devon:

Devon Carver said,
Breaking up the Blob: We have some ideas here that are likely to come out next year, in the earlier portion of the year. It’s a complicated problem because of the principles of our game, namely that we don’t want to punish you for playing with more people. So it comes down to ways to incentivize and/or empower small groups more so than punishing large ones. That creates the problem of finding solutions that don’t help even larger groups. We have some ideas for changes to siege weapons that I think might help, but it is a major concern for us. To be clear, we are concerned about the value of skill over simple manpower. If you get together 50 skilled players operating in unison, we don’t want to hamper that. But we do think a smaller, more coordinated group should have the advantage over a larger, uncoordinated group.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/1

Devon Carver said,
We agree completely with the issues relating to score and population. We have some ideas for how to address this, but nothing is ready to be discussed yet as we haven’t moved beyond the idea phase.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/2

To add to what I said earlier (above), I would love to know what these plans/ideas are, as part of the collaborative development, before Arenanet sets off on a path which may or may not work. Let’s remind ourselves of how Bloodlust works counter to their intention because it merely serves to empower the already powerful (ironically something Devon expressed concern about in his above quote).

jalmari.3906:

Anet hasn’t done anything to make WvW balanced, quite opposite they’ve stated it will never be balanced.

Apparently making mindless zergling gamemode and call it some kind of competition makes them more money than actually competitive pvp in any form. Looking at the numbers in game this is probably also true.

If WvW was actually even closely some kind of form of open world pvp, it would be actually fun. But it isn’t open world. It’s just whack-a-door. It doesn’t really reward you much, although it’s 1000x times more rewarding than this.. thing.. they call spvp. At least you get skins you can like.. use in whole game. Counting out spvp of course, it might unbalance things if armor would look same there.

I don’t even.. Me confuse.

if more people would defend, it wouldn’t be whack-a-door. Or, maybe, instead of jumping to a map with no resistence to whack-a-door, how about trying to take things on a map with some resisitence?

In the FA/DB/SBI match up last week, we (SBI) has some whack-a-door, but we also had a lot of fights trying to take things (as well as defending things).

the only mechanic imo that anet can put in is a power offset – if server a does 1 mil dps per 100 people, then that power value is distributed equally to the smaller server – otherwise there really is no way to balance wvw without putting it into spvp.

The irony that wvw is screaming to be an esport – and the spvp guys want a new map – but the wvw map isn’t in there. I have to believe there is a good reason for that.

As much as I rant and rave on the forum, I have to believe Anet has a good reason for what they’ve done – the platform is there to really make this game intense. There must be some logistical caveat that we are not aware of.

Fairly I’m pretty sure tonnes of people have been waiting for the biblical FSP AG Gandara matchup, so I’m cool with it – it’s been way too long.

Also technically FSP gained 2 rather large NA guilds compared to Gandara’s none, so coveragewise I think we’re more equal than you think.

Immolator.5640:

Fairly I’m pretty sure tonnes of people have been waiting for the biblical FSP AG Gandara matchup, so I’m cool with it – it’s been way too long.

Also technically FSP gained 2 rather large NA guilds compared to Gandara’s none, so coveragewise I think we’re more equal than you think.

I did deliberately not mark your match-up as fail. :P

Greatly reduced PPT for taking/holding unconstested stuctures … only get the BIG PPT points when it’s contested. ….entire “Defense isn’t rewarded” & early morning ninjas problem solved. <—— Get on it Anet. There’s no reason for 6 more weeks of this. This doesn’t have to be Groundhog Day

Anet seriously should have seen this coming … that the design they set up would only discourage 2 out of 3 servers as the week dragged on and coverage differences ate away at all the competitiveness. (which then lead to transfer stacking)

There are multiple factors that contribute to this.

a) small maps meaning the winner gets all. If your zerg is bigger and you have more success, you get to own the entire map. There’s no scaling of the challenge, If the enemy zerg cant stop you that won’t change not matter of you’re going for a tower or a Garrison.

b) there is no downside to holding all of the territory. Romans were spread thin throughout Europe when they conquered the world. That made the vulnerable since their resources were stretched thin. This is not the case in GW2 where a single zerg can control an entire Borderland.

c) no point in fighting if you can’t win. I don’t fault people for quitting if there’s nothing for them to gain from staying. So if you face an overpowering opponent, you stop trying.

d) The scoring system is terrible. Even a minor disadvantage at a certain hour translates into a huge scoring gap. There is no incentive to fight harder, no mechanism that enables you to “catch up”.

What I’d like to know is this. Are you (ArenaNet) actually interested in ‘fixing’ these problems?

I’m sure a lot of people know things that would fix the big problems called imbalance and blobs, PvDoor and coverage wars, and a lot of people did post suggestions, so you shouldn’t have any problem fixing it (apart from coding it and so on).

I’d only like to know if you are considering the previous as big problems or if you are actually ok with them and think they are part of the game, so I (and others) know if it’s still worth playing, or if the only option is moving to another game for decent PvP.

they simply have to read my suggestions^^

- make ALL waypoint teleports on low server for free and on high servers + 25% (it still would be the same goldsink when not more cause high pop server pay for the low pops)

- close transfer to full servers – full is full

this alone would fix population issues in no time^^

Svarty.8019:

Sirendor.1394:

And the conclusion is: this system does not work. Servers will always have more or less numbers and the ones with more will always win. It’s not about skill.

The game mode is broken.

Arenanet have stated that this, specifically, is something they both know about and intend to address. To quote Devon:

Devon Carver said,
Breaking up the Blob: We have some ideas here that are likely to come out next year, in the earlier portion of the year. It’s a complicated problem because of the principles of our game, namely that we don’t want to punish you for playing with more people. So it comes down to ways to incentivize and/or empower small groups more so than punishing large ones. That creates the problem of finding solutions that don’t help even larger groups. We have some ideas for changes to siege weapons that I think might help, but it is a major concern for us. To be clear, we are concerned about the value of skill over simple manpower. If you get together 50 skilled players operating in unison, we don’t want to hamper that. But we do think a smaller, more coordinated group should have the advantage over a larger, uncoordinated group.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/1

Devon Carver said,
We agree completely with the issues relating to score and population. We have some ideas for how to address this, but nothing is ready to be discussed yet as we haven’t moved beyond the idea phase. In my opinion its the single largest issue that still faces WvW and one that we intend to make major strides to address as soon as we can. The league itself doesn’t do much to address it, beyond the achievements which should provide some incentive to play winning or losing. We are approaching this exact problem with the mindset that is behind your question though, and that is that even if you are losing we want there to be a reason for you to keep playing. That’s a high level goal for us in WvW.

Source: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397784/page/2

I have a couple of problems with these quotes:

1) They knew that this patch would not help the problem? Yet they went forward with it anyways? Lets think really hard about this. You put smaller servers against larger ones with the incentive of “Achievements”? So they will continue to play even while getting steam rolled. Did anyone in that brain trust say “Hey.. how are these smaller servers going to attain these achievements if they are getting owned all the time?” The achievements for these smaller servers seem like a larger slap in the face. Anet is teasing them with a bone that is well out of reach and a 50 man zerg bearing down on them. Seems like their ideas to keep people in WvW were in the right place but was horribly executed. Anyone remember the SW Ilum PvP patch that had nearly zero protection at spawn points? People would just raise up and die. Reminds me a bit of that.

2) Not wanting to penalize zergs when they greatly outnumber other servers on the map. I do agree with this but I think there are some solutions. Look at the events that spawn more mobs and tougher mobs with more people around. How about making it something like that? When you are being beaten that horribly then maybe the game should auto spawn npc’s to help. IE: You have the outmanned buff going and your down to your last keep/tower. Enemy starts the attack and the NPC’s automatically appear in the courtyard. Level/Strength based on the degree of being outmanned. I mean if they can detect it for events I can not imagine it would be that much different for this. For what I disagree with. Making these servers wait several months until you might have a fix. Do you really think they will still be in there? Especially with an unattainable achievement system for them? Common sense please.

TL;DR version:
-League with achievements only made the problem worse and added insult to injury.
-Old system was not perfect but league should be held off until such fixes can be implemented.
-Achievements should be adjusted to make them more friendly to servers with these issues.
-Think out your patch before you launch it otherwise it may come out as lame as the first major Bioware PvP patch.

Side note:
I do have complete faith in you guys at Anet. Especially after seeing the products Bioware/SquareEnix had put out. Sometimes it is just better to make people wait for that next new thing. To make sure balance issues are truly thought out and fixed. This is most importantly true when it comes to PvP/WvW.

sumdumfoo.1025:

-Think out your patch before you launch it otherwise it may come out as lame as the first major Bioware PvP patch.

It’s entirely possible that they felt they needed to gather more information before making changes about the blob problem.

With the league and achievements out, and boosting participation rates, they have a wealth of data to work with now.

Would you rather they waited an additional 3 months before releasing the achievements and leagues, only to find out that the anti-blob measures they came up with made things worse, rather than better? They’d still be in the same boat, with you and others blaming for “not thinking things through.”

PizzaSHARK.2741:

sumdumfoo.1025:

-Think out your patch before you launch it otherwise it may come out as lame as the first major Bioware PvP patch.

It’s entirely possible that they felt they needed to gather more information before making changes about the blob problem.

With the league and achievements out, and boosting participation rates, they have a wealth of data to work with now.

Would you rather they waited an additional 3 months before releasing the achievements and leagues, only to find out that the anti-blob measures they came up with made things worse, rather than better? They’d still be in the same boat, with you and others blaming for “not thinking things through.”

Yes actually. VERY much would have rather waited. Think about it. What did they accomplish by pitting these smaller servers against the larger? Those people are not going to care about the achievements because they will not be able to get them.

-Will they ever be able to take SM? Fat chance on that against a large server.

-How likely are they going to be able to complete the JP’s? You know those are camped if the server is being dominated. Plus if the server is large and yours is small then how likely are you to be able to even get into the JP in EBG?

-The keeps? If you server is small and against a large server it is more likely they are leaving lots of people behind in “your keep” to give them early warning so they can return.

I know these things happen because I am on a medium population server and it happens to us. I can only imagine how horrible it is for other servers. I used the Star Wars patch example for a very specific reason. If you can not even play WvW because your being camped everywhere you go then you will only get people to quite. The achievements will not mean crap. Larger servers will not care but medium and small? I have seen the 40 to 10 odds. Only people who can not understand this are the people on the large servers. There are fixes they could have toyed with. They did not and now players are paying for it.

They should just severely reduce the victory rewards and points of the servers that have far superior number and greatly increase the victory rewards of the servers that are heavily outnumbered. By this way, people will move to other maps when they have superior number and move to other servers if their servers always have superior number

@Sumdumfoo:
I think about this the same way:

- In my case: Stonemist is one of the things hardest for Vabbi, and is usually only managed when we get our guild groups and commanders together for one big charge OR during night.

- JP’s I have no idea. I guess they’ll be camped but haven’t gone into any yet since leagues started.

- Good thing about fighting a blob server is that usually everyone mindlessly joins the blob, cause it’s boring to defend (we actually do defend and upgrade towers and keeps and man them, though enemy has superior forces).

Indeed, the difference between low tier server and med tier is that med still has some servers they dominate themselves (lower tier), while low is only on par with low and is terribly weak against any higher.

Personally I transferred to Vabbi cause I wanted to. I was sick of all the mindless blobbing and I hate the lack of competition. At least in Vabbi there aren’t blobs on the server itself, though we do fight against zergs most of the time.

Dragonax.6487:

They should just severely reduce the victory rewards and points of the servers that have far superior number and greatly increase the victory rewards of the servers that are heavily outnumbered. By this way, people will move to other maps when they have superior number and move to other servers if their servers always have superior number

Problem is that there will be more people even on low tier, and that will result in blobs.
Gold league and silver league are near to unplayable because there are blobs of 70+ everywhere. Bronze is only league that is somewhat less blobby.

They should have made better choices in setting up the matches. It is not like they did not have the numbers to tell them where servers already stand. There is zero reason to put some of these servers on the same tier as others.

There are simple fixes. From NPC help to diminished returns. Best fix would have been to not force some of these servers to fight ones that much larger. Simply thinking about it first would have helped. This idea felt rushed. It IS a good idea. As long as a balance is in place. I DO like the idea.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Would you rather they waited an additional 3 months before releasing the achievements and leagues, only to find out that the anti-blob measures they came up with made things worse, rather than better? They’d still be in the same boat, with you and others blaming for “not thinking things through.”

What “Measures”??? ….they haven’t even admitted it’s a problem yet.

They’re NOT talking to us, they’re not listening on this point. Look out how they outright refused to balance WvW apart from sPvP. Read Sharp’s longer posts. The guys like him, Whiteside, Smith, Lye, & “Izzy” obviously hold all the sway here, not Devon. Devon’s just the messenger most of the time.

Ricky.4706:

There must be some logistical caveat that we are not aware of.

$$$. Most of things asked on forums have been tested internally and/or on core test, e.g. 20v20 arenas. But then were put into the dump because the devs didn’t get the “go” from the financial department. (1 gvg arena would put same load as several 8v8 arenas, no money for additional servers). Also restructuring their internal teams was an indicator for missing coins, they could have just hired additional staff to work on several parts of the game at once, but they had to work with the existing crew. Now, they are left with telling us stories, showing the carrot and in the end, they can’t live up to what they want to do.

Anet looking for more money this league when they said ‘’find the right home’’ so simple they want peoples to transfer buy gems use gems it gives them more money.

Get rid of downed state. That alone will flip the balance towards skill as opposed to numbers.

airstu.2579:

Get rid of downed state. That alone will flip the balance towards skill as opposed to numbers.

You do relise that thats actually the opposite…

You can EASILY take 40man blob of pugs with 20man guild group as even if they get couple of u down u just kill theyr whole back line on first push and all ur peeps are alive again.

And imo all this whining about so called blobbing is BS, sure its true when the blob is full of PUGS, but probly over 75% of you all who whine about blobs whine becose other guilds have those 20-30 ppl and u got only 10-15! get more members! (especially the op)

You have absolutely no right to tell anet to nerf bigger guilds becose they like to raid with 30 people while you want only 15… thats just so wrong…

and about achis, i dunno how bad its in NA but in EU theres not a single server that cudnt get the achis done. i know vabbi can do it and so can every1 else too, u got 7 weeks to do them…

AND rly!?!? ur whining about coverage?? get urself coverage! sure without na guilds its harder but theres ALOT of people who lives in eu and wakes up early to get the morning capping going… or stay up until morning until some1 else takes over. u cant really expect to get everything without doing anything.

:D:D and to OP. moved to vabbi coz you hate the lack of competition? rly? well ya…. cant rly say anything to that…

but in the end, you should all think this like Devon has said, as its the only reasonable thign to do.
encourage blobbing but still bigger coordinated group should have advantage over smaller coordinated group. its ur fault for not having members not theyrs…

ohhh 1 more thing. sure even i would support some idea if it would be working 1! As i hate blobbing just as much as every1 in here just remember, 30man organized guild groups aint blobs.

not smth like bonus dmg to make for outmanned, as then 1 vabbi warrior could solo everygroup with +1000% dmg.

@ kitten iss

I agree with your assessment that a large group should have an advantage no doubt about that.

I agree with some others that add that supply should not be availible when you take a supply camp until the timer for retake has run out what are those 3 minutes or something

I think the reset timers should be done away with you take it and want to hold it till the PPT then you better have someone defending it. I also think the guards at both Supply camps and towers should either be buffed or deleted