Guild Wars 2

“The WvW team’s current top priority is fixing population imbalance. It’s a really hard technical problem. It has taken us a long time to ship a solution, so it’s been a long time since we’ve shipped significant updates, and of course that hurts.” ~ Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet[

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/

At a high level we plan to address core WvW issues such as population imbalance, scoring issues, and rewards. Of those, the first updates you’ll see will be related to population balance and rewards. ~Anet-TylerB

So there we have it. Game over. They. Just. Do. Not. Get. It. Here, lets shovel some rotten food with sugar all over it and wonder why no one is eating it.

They sat on their hands watching everyone leave.. they jump up again to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and can’t put the nails in the coffin fast enough. Then they are going to pat themselves on the back afterwards " we did everything we could" Nonsense when the one thing they had to do to fix it they refused to do. The end.

WHY is this such a bad answer? Sadly, they are not listening..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Adding-rewards-b4-Alpine-will-fail/first#post6021249

Population imbalance will resolve itself when they fix the other issues with the game ( including too many servers). Hello Anet, everyone is sitting in queue for EBG because of the DBL boycott, not population imbalance. There are many options to resolve it that are better than their idea of a godawful alliance system. WvW players do not play WvW for rewards, they play it for challenging, strategic Fun PvP ( which they are not receiving currently).

Most WvW players spend $$ to play WvW, they should just be an incentive to do more instead. Pouring sugar on a rotten plate of food is not going to fix it. What they are choosing to do here is kill it faster.

Considering Obrien is now calling the shots for the game and is the one who thinks WvW players <3 PvE, I don’t think I can stand to stick around any longer to watch this painfully dwindle away a slow excruciating death, it has been nauseating enough to watch as it is.

Best move for a new director would be to get on the OFFICIAL FORUM and start communicating with players.
If you do not have the technology to rotate back and forth between maps and admit to the necessity to fix/ improve the desert bl, then put the frikken alpine map back until you fix it. This might at least give you a population to balance. If not, it will make balancing kinda easy i guess, 5 people here, 5 there, and the top server can have 6.

Akkeros.1675:

Best move for a new director would be to get on the OFFICIAL FORUM and start communicating with players.
If you do not have the technology to rotate back and forth between maps and admit to the necessity to fix/ improve the desert bl, then put the frikken alpine map back until you fix it. This might at least give you a population to balance. If not, it will make balancing kinda easy i guess, 5 people here, 5 there, and the top server can have 6.

Don’t you remember? The new game director is who wants MORE PvE in WvW! I doubt he will come anywhere near these forums because no one here agrees with him..

The problem is he wants them to ruin Alpine with the HoT mess instead of put it in without the HoT mess, like everyone asked. They do not seem to care that players do not like the HoT mess they want to add.

First thing go back to the old map while the team figures this out. Plug the hole that is bleeding wvw players away.

This will take some of the pressure off of the team and wvw players.

Then figure out a way to merge time zones if you want 24/7 wvw population balance (would love to see TC paired with Piken for instance ).

Trim back on the red rings of death a little…well ok maybe more than that. Its a bit out of hand.

“This” and giving siege a little more protection behind walls from zergs covers most issues wvw players have asked about.

population imbalance…..are there enough people still playing for this to be a priority?

From the reddit AMA on moving resets to Saturday:

“This is a conversation we’re going to need to have with y’all. We moved to Saturday because sometimes we do a build on Fridays and just about the time we wanted to activate the build was during the reset time. So we thought it would be better if there was no conflict in the timing of those things. Since people love Friday, but we might do a build on Friday, we need to talk about exactly what time of day would be good for the community, and then adjust based on that.”

So they still think maybe, sometimes having a new build on Fridays is worth losing probably 20% – 25% of weekly activity? Either they’re not being straightforward with the real reason reset is on Saturday, or they really don’t care about the loss of population.

population imbalance (and emptiness of most maps most of the time) is what killed WvW, not the BL. The new BLs just had the problem, that to few people for the smaller old BL maps are much to few people for larger new maps.

The thing we urgently need in my view is map-capacity fits player-numbers, neither to much map such that WvW degenerates to a PvE(D)-race nor to few map such that you sit in queue when you want to play.

If their balance work solve this WvW-problem, WvW get a change to restart, if not all they do is useless.

But how do you fix population imbalanceing beyond cutting off the game when “you” are not on? I realy do not think its up to Anet to fix this problem more of an over all gw2 community to make it work better.

Dayra.7405:

population imbalance (and emptiness of most maps most of the time) is what killed WvW, not the BL. The new BLs just had the problem, that to few people for the smaller old BL maps are much to few people for larger new maps.

The thing we urgently need in my view is map-capacity fits player-numbers, neither to much map such that WvW degenerates to a PvE(D)-race nor to few map such that you sit in queue when you want to play.

If their balance work solve this WvW-problem, WvW get a change to restart, if not all they do is useless.

Nope. It was indeed the new BL that put WvW into its current death spiral. Just look at the queued EB maps with totally empty BLs. Just look at the fact that WvW population fell like a rock, never to recover, after HoT came out — despite everyone promising people would flock back to WvW at release.

Population (or more precisely player-hours, I still play WvW from time to time, but instead of 20+ hours per weak, I play maybe 1-2 hours a week as I do not care about winning anymore. If this is not only me, but many player, then it has the same effect as loosing 90% of the players.) was declining long before new BLs.

Jski.6180:

But how do you fix population imbalanceing beyond cutting off the game when “you” are not on? I realy do not think its up to Anet to fix this problem more of an over all gw2 community to make it work better.

The most obvious solution is to fold together low tier servers.

Anet won’t do this because people still logically assume that server pop = total player pop like it does in virtually every other MMO.

Folding in servers signals that the total game population is too small and they need to shutdown servers to compensate. Whether it’s true or not is largely irrelevant.

It’s what other games do in such a situation and Anet would have a nearly impossible task of convincing people that it’s not what’s happening here.

While many prefer EBG over the BLs and the old alpine over the new BLs, boycott is BS. See bg and YB that prefers groups smaller than a map queue there all the time – sometimes even Jq. OP must be referring to his/her guild, but wait seen them there as well…….

Substance E.4852:

Jski.6180:

But how do you fix population imbalanceing beyond cutting off the game when “you” are not on? I realy do not think its up to Anet to fix this problem more of an over all gw2 community to make it work better.

The most obvious solution is to fold together low tier servers.

Anet won’t do this because people still logically assume that server pop = total player pop like it does in virtually every other MMO.

Folding in servers signals that the total game population is too small and they need to shutdown servers to compensate. Whether it’s true or not is largely irrelevant.

It’s what other games do in such a situation and Anet would have a nearly impossible task of convincing people that it’s not what’s happening here.

That trick only works for non pvp games where the pvp is more on its own set up then the “pve” or most of that persisting mmorpg world. So by combining servers you do not get greater covages the main problem in wvw but more ppl trying to get into wvw at the same time. Its not a real fix and never can truly be one more of a temp fix that will simply anoy ppl who get moved to the point of them simply quitting on there own or moving.

Its a draconian move that will cause more harm then good for a rvr game type.

Jski.6180:

But how do you fix population imbalanceing beyond cutting off the game when “you” are not on? I realy do not think its up to Anet to fix this problem more of an over all gw2 community to make it work better.

The community were the ones who caused the imbalance in the first place.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Jski.6180:

But how do you fix population imbalanceing beyond cutting off the game when “you” are not on? I realy do not think its up to Anet to fix this problem more of an over all gw2 community to make it work better.

The community were the ones who caused the imbalance in the first place.

Well ya but that kind of show you ppl want it or at least always move in such a way that cause it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

From the reddit AMA on moving resets to Saturday:

“This is a conversation we’re going to need to have with y’all. We moved to Saturday because sometimes we do a build on Fridays and just about the time we wanted to activate the build was during the reset time. So we thought it would be better if there was no conflict in the timing of those things. Since people love Friday, but we might do a build on Friday, we need to talk about exactly what time of day would be good for the community, and then adjust based on that.”

So they still think maybe, sometimes having a new build on Fridays is worth losing probably 20% – 25% of weekly activity? Either they’re not being straightforward with the real reason reset is on Saturday, or they really don’t care about the loss of population.

The problem with this is that the saturday “solution” still make no sense whatsoever, especially since few patches on friday affected WvW (its all about enabling sPvP and PvE weekend events). Even if this was a concern (after 3 years for some reason) the answer was stupid simple – patch an hour earlier, dont patch 20 minutes after reset. Or even better – dont patch at all on friday unless its absolutely critical.

Wrong answer or wrong interpretation?

All I understood was “We do things we can do easily first, so we don’t have to make you wait for the things that take too long.”

It’s “rotten food” with or without “sugar” no matter which order they take. In either case you need to wait for the “big fix”.

lil devils x.6071:

“The WvW team’s current top priority is fixing population imbalance. It’s a really hard technical problem. It has taken us a long time to ship a solution, so it’s been a long time since we’ve shipped significant updates, and of course that hurts.” ~ Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet[

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/

At a high level we plan to address core WvW issues such as population imbalance, scoring issues, and rewards. Of those, the first updates you’ll see will be related to population balance and rewards. ~Anet-TylerB

So there we have it. Game over. They. Just. Do. Not. Get. It. Here, lets shovel some rotten food with sugar all over it and wonder why no one is eating it.

They sat on their hands watching everyone leave.. they jump up again to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and can’t put the nails in the coffin fast enough. Then they are going to pat themselves on the back afterwards " we did everything we could" Nonsense when the one thing they had to do to fix it they refused to do. The end.

WHY is this such a bad answer? Sadly, they are not listening..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Adding-rewards-b4-Alpine-will-fail/first#post6021249

Population imbalance will resolve itself when they fix the other issues with the game ( including too many servers). Hello Anet, everyone is sitting in queue for EBG because of the DBL boycott, not population imbalance. There are many options to resolve it that are better than their idea of a godawful alliance system. WvW players do not play WvW for rewards, they play it for challenging, strategic Fun PvP ( which they are not receiving currently).

Most WvW players spend $$ to play WvW, they should just be an incentive to do more instead. Pouring sugar on a rotten plate of food is not going to fix it. What they are choosing to do here is kill it faster.

Considering Obrien is now calling the shots for the game and is the one who thinks WvW players <3 PvE, I don’t think I can stand to stick around any longer to watch this painfully dwindle away a slow excruciating death, it has been nauseating enough to watch as it is.

First bolded quote…

No, population imbalance will not resolve itself now. Didn’t work before either.

Closing servers is not an option, they are not going to shut down and meld servers on the 95%, just to appease the 5%.

Anet is looking to fill up servers and from those it fills the wvw pool with players.

In rvr you have to have sides closer to equal, so alliances or megaserver stuff needs to be in place to make this happen.

Addressing population issues and lack of rewards players faced since launch are both good starts. The rest of the issues will be fixed.

Your second bolded quote…

That’s not true for the majority in every pvp oriented game I’ve ever played. Pvpers want both good fights and good rewards to brag about. You are in the minority on this one.

Go take out plundering from EVE and “king of the hill” from ESO and whatever they are doing for CU… and you tell me how many players will play…

Dawdler.8521:

Lord Kuru.3685:

From the reddit AMA on moving resets to Saturday:

“This is a conversation we’re going to need to have with y’all. We moved to Saturday because sometimes we do a build on Fridays and just about the time we wanted to activate the build was during the reset time. So we thought it would be better if there was no conflict in the timing of those things. Since people love Friday, but we might do a build on Friday, we need to talk about exactly what time of day would be good for the community, and then adjust based on that.”

So they still think maybe, sometimes having a new build on Fridays is worth losing probably 20% – 25% of weekly activity? Either they’re not being straightforward with the real reason reset is on Saturday, or they really don’t care about the loss of population.

The problem with this is that the saturday “solution” still make no sense whatsoever, especially since few patches on friday affected WvW (its all about enabling sPvP and PvE weekend events). Even if this was a concern (after 3 years for some reason) the answer was stupid simple – patch an hour earlier, dont patch 20 minutes after reset. Or even better – dont patch at all on friday unless its absolutely critical.

Also add in that when they made the switch, the reason given was that according to their metrics, more people play on Saturdays than on Fridays. Patches seems to be a new excuse.

Population imbalance NEEDS to cover all time zones on the servers. How will THAT be done? It is impossible. The only way they can do it is with the EotM mechanic of server blending and that does not work.

They need to:

1. Get rid of Arrow carts or limit to what a player can see (not with this peek over garbage either). Also limit the how far an arrow can be used. This would be easy to do as soon as a player uses a piece of siege, they cannot go to options and change their field of view – lock it to the siege.

2. Siege cap keeps and towers as they get upgraded and actually remove siege that is over the cap. I mean putting in 5 Superior Arrow Carts, 2 trebs and 2 ballistas in a T1 tower is ludicrous.

3. Emergency WP – remove.

4. Air ships on SMC – REMOVE

5. DRAGON BANNER – REMOVE Talk about an OP crutch skill.

6. CHILLING FOG – REMOVE

7. Limit AoE skills so they can’t overlap and lower CC abilities. In crease STABO and give each profession a viable STABO skill.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Population imbalance NEEDS to cover all time zones on the servers. How will THAT be done? It is impossible. The only way they can do it is with the EotM mechanic of server blending and that does not work.

They need to:

1. Get rid of Arrow carts or limit to what a player can see (not with this peek over garbage either). Also limit the how far an arrow can be used. This would be easy to do as soon as a player uses a piece of siege, they cannot go to options and change their field of view – lock it to the siege.

2. Siege cap keeps and towers as they get upgraded and actually remove siege that is over the cap. I mean putting in 5 Superior Arrow Carts, 2 trebs and 2 ballistas in a T1 tower is ludicrous.

3. Emergency WP – remove.

4. Air ships on SMC – REMOVE

5. DRAGON BANNER – REMOVE Talk about an OP crutch skill.

6. CHILLING FOG – REMOVE

7. Limit AoE skills so they can’t overlap and lower CC abilities. In crease STABO and give each profession a viable STABO skill.

Eotm works pretty great and the pace of fighting is far far better. Most of you are just in denial.

Removing those things will not do anything good. RvR is about mass combat and players need tools like those.

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

Mike O’Brien

Thanks for the down-votes and for the thread on the official forums, “Wrong answer again RIP WvW”. You know I’m actually here to help.

If you want to help
1) Communicte with us HERE, not reddit!
2) Listen to us

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Mike O’Brien

Thanks for the down-votes and for the thread on the official forums, “Wrong answer again RIP WvW”. You know I’m actually here to help.

If you want to help
1) Communicte with us HERE, not reddit!
2) Listen to us

If anything we know they read this part of the forums now Some still think they don’t read this section. Its going to come down to who they choose to listen to this time. I’ve seen lots of crazy ideas pop-up over the years and IMO they took some of them ideas and put them into the new BL. Those ideas came from the minority if you ask me but in a way sometimes I don’t even agree with the majority of the complaints since most have kitten kitten kitten 3 years kitten kitten in them..

We all have our own vision of how WvW should be and need to come up with some good feedback that fixes it for everyone. Not just one persons play style. Let go of the past and at least try to be more positive, at least one more time just try it! This may be our only chance to actually get what we want. With all the negativity and the dwelling over past tbh that doesn’t help us one bit. I know people have gave feedback over the past years and have been ignored but please try to give it again. They may just listen but its hard to listen when every post seems to be a hate on anet..

edit: just as I posted this another ANet you killed wvw thread pops up

As long as the bigger numbers will always win the population issues won’t be fixed as people will just quit.
And please don’t forget that there’s a difference between EU and NA. We don’t want and never can have a 24/7 coverage on EU.

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for players to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like… megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

Not every tier had or has the population to blob vs blob.

You have a very limited view of eotm and the great potential some of the elements found there would improve wvw.

Well here is the thing, they have now open up communication which is what we have asked and begged them to do for years. They done it now so how about you stop being babies and give them a chance to prove them self before you tell them they are doing it wrong..

Noone have to praise them or worship everything they say, but they turned around, they started to communicate, which was what we always asked for, now you be the bigger person and let them do it and see were that leads. If you are not the bigger person and just keep on repeating what we said for years nothing will ever change, and maybe if that is how you feel it might be time for you to throw in the towel and take a break.

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

Not every tier had or has the population to blob vs blob.

You have a very limited view of eotm and the great potential some of the elements found there would improve wvw.

Improve it for some but make it worse for others. What great elements does EoTM map have? The falling to your death just by looking at the map when you auto run? The tunnels you can run into to run away from fights? The super laser thing? The scorpions that are moving siege? The bridges you can destroy? The wisps that make you not take damage while in wisp form and you can explode them and knock players off edges??? The turning into PVE mobs? They buying of something that calls an aoe airstrike??

such great elements for players that want to fight..

Dear community,

you are saying it all wrong, it’s not population imbalance that ruined wvw

It’s the rule that made population balance the best way to win that ruined wvw.

people who pvp want to win, you make a bad rule, they will win by bad rules.

saying population imbalance is ruining wvw, is admitting the gw / wvw community are trolls that are willing to over populate servers and ruin the game for a win, simply because every one can easily move and fix the imbalance.

lets focus on the bad rule, and not the results of a bad rule.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dayra.7405:

population imbalance (and emptiness of most maps most of the time) is what killed WvW, not the BL. The new BLs just had the problem, that to few people for the smaller old BL maps are much to few people for larger new maps.

The thing we urgently need in my view is map-capacity fits player-numbers, neither to much map such that WvW degenerates to a PvE(D)-race nor to few map such that you sit in queue when you want to play.

If their balance work solve this WvW-problem, WvW get a change to restart, if not all they do is useless.

Nope. It was indeed the new BL that put WvW into its current death spiral. Just look at the queued EB maps with totally empty BLs. Just look at the fact that WvW population fell like a rock, never to recover, after HoT came out — despite everyone promising people would flock back to WvW at release.

Hey I dislike the new map too, but we can’t put all of that on the map. Let’s remember when HoT released there was the new map, but you also had to grind elite spec, go play in Maguuma, and PvE your kitten off to grind your guild hall to regain what you lost when they botched that situation.

Granted the map contributed, but those other factors were, most likely, even greater contributors.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Mike O’Brien

Thanks for the down-votes and for the thread on the official forums, “Wrong answer again RIP WvW”. You know I’m actually here to help.

If you want to help
1) Communicte with us HERE, not reddit!
2) Listen to us

1. is spot on. What the doohickey are they doing posting their news on freaking reddit? They have the tools that they made and they support to announce everything they need to, but use a third party tool?

2 will never happen in a meaningful way. WvW isn’t eSportz enough for them.

I know this sounds too much like megaservers but i cannot imagine it would be too difficult to mix some silver and bronze league servers together to balance population as closely as possible. Put the metrics to practical use for one and take server A with 7 players, mostly NA prime and server B with 3 players in ocx
OR A with 5 B with 3 and C with 2 vs A1 with 6 B1 with 2 and C1 with 2 and they can apply for rotation if not ideal fits or chose not to apply for rotation if things are going well.
Servers stay together, have their own identity and meet more people.

i’ll say it again differently, if the rule to winning a game was whomever spent the most gold wins, your audience will complain about being broke after winning.

The problem with wvw is that people are still winning and broke! lol

Fix the rules, the game is fine. No, I don’t want to change servers to win wvw. New rule please!

my concern is that everyone is so focused on fixing the results of a bad rule, they may never address the problem that caused this mess.

Put a good rule in place, and the mess will clean itself. Don’t waste time cleaning the mess, address the problem causing it, it will save you a ton of grief. it’s like trying to mop up water from a broken pipe, fix the leak first, THEN mop! The more you do to wvw, the more you risk being criticized for what you’ve done….just fix that bad rule and go from there. Most fixes everyone wants are very simple beyond that. Wvw clean up sounds like an impossible job because you are trying to clean what human nature will clean up naturally with good rules!

the current rule – server with highest score wins

the current strategy – server with the most people and most coverage scores the most points and wins.

that’s a problem.

the ONLY reason I should want to change servers, is because one server has the biggest pvp population willing to show me how to get better and practice with like minded people, not because i want to bandwagon a win. This would also segway into servers focused on game style preference, allowing other guilds and anet to run specialized server only events – ie – a pvp workshop with the developers.

GW would probably become a super fascinating place, if when I jumped into one server, the preferred game mode there is role playing, then I can go to lions arch have a drink with some dwarves and dance with the elven girls… if I jumped into another server, their preferred gaming is dungeon crawling and i might find a nice group of people to crawl with, another server is all about pvp, another server jumping puzzle and easter egg specilists ……and so on….that would make gw2 like a worlds fair of my favorite things and their communities. heck, one server could be all about just HOT, this would mean the maps would be full all the time because everyone on that server loves the hot metas, Dragon stand would always be active.

Kamara.4187:

First thing go back to the old map while the team figures this out. Plug the hole that is bleeding wvw players away.

This will take some of the pressure off of the team and wvw players.

Then figure out a way to merge time zones if you want 24/7 wvw population balance (would love to see TC paired with Piken for instance ).

Trim back on the red rings of death a little…well ok maybe more than that. Its a bit out of hand.

“This” and giving siege a little more protection behind walls from zergs covers most issues wvw players have asked about.

This, This, This… A thousand times this!
I want to play more, but will not if the Borderlands are impossible to traverse.

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

Not every tier had or has the population to blob vs blob.

You have a very limited view of eotm and the great potential some of the elements found there would improve wvw.

Improve it for some but make it worse for others. What great elements does EoTM map have? The falling to your death just by looking at the map when you auto run? The tunnels you can run into to run away from fights? The scorpions that are moving siege? The wisps that make you not take damage while in wisp form and you can explode them and knock players off edges???

I answered that question, you are free to read a previous post.

You are embellishing things and grasping at straws in your counter argument.

I didn’t see anything in your previous posts that would improve wvw for EVERYONE besides not being able to treb objectives from another which they gave us in the new maps but went overboard lol You mentioned EoTM map elements. I just listed a bunch of them from EoTM that would not improve the game mode but would add more gimmicks that so many wvw’ers seem to dislike. Funny how you write a lot when you want to turn WvW into EoTM but when others reply to you with counter arguments you have little to nothing to say and basically blow it off.

Either way I didn’t want to go back and forth with you but every time EoTM pops up you are the first one pushing for it saying the same exact thing you’ve said even when others constantly try to tell you that it could possibly destroy wvw as we know it. You are happy with EoTM so play EoTM. I don’t like EoTM so I don’t go there. Maybe since I don’t like EoTM I should try to get it changed into WvW since that is what I prefer?? That is basically what you are doing..

Your problem is that you don’t play in eotm so you don’t look at mechanics and things objectively.

You asked what great elements does eotm have and I already answered those.

You embellish things like the “falling off and being knock off the edge” thing…

It’s easier to run from fights in wvw with all the structures to hide in, it happens all the time. Tunnels in eotm work many ways… Quicker travel for offense and to get to objectives faster to defend. Again, it’s easier to run and hide from a fight in wvw…

So what if scorps are mobile seige, they are also fun.

Wisps have a timer and are also a fun tactic. Again, you embellish the knock back on wisp abilities. Players don’t fight near the edges and there are very few spots where this could happen.

When I have talked about eotm I mostly refer to the player pooling mechanics to fix population issues. Since you have been following my posts in this section so closely then you should have understood that from a long time ago.

The individual server vs individual server vs individual server design doesn’t work obviously. Common sense tells me that an alliance/megaserver system would resolve that major issue across the entire game.

Also, if you don’t go to eotm, then you should spend some time there before you criticize it, the players who go there or my posts.

Swagger.1459:

Your problem is that you don’t play in eotm so you don’t look at mechanics and things objectively.

You asked what great elements does eotm have and I already answered those.

You embellish things like the “falling off and being knock off the edge” thing…

It’s easier to run from fights in wvw with all the structures to hide in, it happens all the time. Tunnels in eotm work many ways… Quicker travel for offense and to get to objectives faster to defend. Again, it’s easier to run and hide from a fight in wvw…

So what if scorps are mobile seige, they are also fun.

Wisps have a timer and are also a fun tactic. Again, you embellish the knock back on wisp abilities. Players don’t fight near the edges and there are very few spots where this could happen.

When I have talked about eotm I mostly refer to the player pooling mechanics to fix population issues. Since you have been following my posts in this section so closely then you should have understood that from a long time ago.

The individual server vs individual server vs individual server design doesn’t work obviously. Common sense tells me that an alliance/megaserver system would resolve that major issue across the entire game.

Also, if you don’t go to eotm, then you should spend some time there before you criticize it, the players who go there or my posts.

I know its better not to discuss with you – but anyway:
Why not keep EotM like it is and wvw as well? What good would it do to force EotM on the wvw population who don’t play EotM?
I did play it, back when it started – it was carnage back then. The stuff that annoyed me even then was the map, the PvE elements and all the buffs one could get which alone made the matchups uneven. The point when I left: when 2 servers rigged the matchups; Server a gets the karma, server b the bags and server c is being farmed. It is already kind of like that on NA, I think, but it’s very likely it would happen in wvw too.
Also, please don’t forget that we have different languages on the EU servers and I know that they’d like to be able to play like before and not being forced to speak English (which a lot of them can’t) – they bought the game to play in their native language and it is already partly impossible due to the megaservers; megaservers in wvw would destroy the rest of that.
And like I and others have already said; as long as wvw isn’t balanced (not population wise) it will die, no matter what – you can try to “fix it” by throwing more and more people onto the problem, but they will leave nonetheless.

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

Not every tier had or has the population to blob vs blob.

You have a very limited view of eotm and the great potential some of the elements found there would improve wvw.

Improve it for some but make it worse for others. What great elements does EoTM map have? The falling to your death just by looking at the map when you auto run? The tunnels you can run into to run away from fights? The scorpions that are moving siege? The wisps that make you not take damage while in wisp form and you can explode them and knock players off edges???

I answered that question, you are free to read a previous post.

You are embellishing things and grasping at straws in your counter argument.

I didn’t see anything in your previous posts that would improve wvw for EVERYONE besides not being able to treb objectives from another which they gave us in the new maps but went overboard lol You mentioned EoTM map elements. I just listed a bunch of them from EoTM that would not improve the game mode but would add more gimmicks that so many wvw’ers seem to dislike. Funny how you write a lot when you want to turn WvW into EoTM but when others reply to you with counter arguments you have little to nothing to say and basically blow it off.

Either way I didn’t want to go back and forth with you but every time EoTM pops up you are the first one pushing for it saying the same exact thing you’ve said even when others constantly try to tell you that it could possibly destroy wvw as we know it. You are happy with EoTM so play EoTM. I don’t like EoTM so I don’t go there. Maybe since I don’t like EoTM I should try to get it changed into WvW since that is what I prefer?? That is basically what you are doing..

Your problem is that you don’t play in eotm so you don’t look at mechanics and things objectively.

You asked what great elements does eotm have and I already answered those.

You embellish things like the “falling off and being knock off the edge” thing…

It’s easier to run from fights in wvw with all the structures to hide in, it happens all the time. Tunnels in eotm work many ways… Quicker travel for offense and to get to objectives faster to defend. Again, it’s easier to run and hide from a fight in wvw…

So what if scorps are mobile seige, they are also fun.

Wisps have a timer and are also a fun tactic. Again, you embellish the knock back on wisp abilities. Players don’t fight near the edges and there are very few spots where this could happen.

When I have talked about eotm I mostly refer to the player pooling mechanics to fix population issues. Since you have been following my posts in this section so closely then you should have understood that from a long time ago.

The individual server vs individual server vs individual server design doesn’t work obviously. Common sense tells me that an alliance/megaserver system would resolve that major issue across the entire game.

Also, if you don’t go to eotm, then you should spend some time there before you criticize it, the players who go there or my posts.

I read nothing you said except the first line where you stated I don’t play in EoTM. Did you hack my pc and spy on me?? I clearly said I’ve leveled tons of alts there. I’ve even went there to k-train when elite specs came out because it was faster to k-train there. I don’t go there much because it is nothing but up-levels and easy kills. Simple as that. You like EoTM because you do not like to be challenge by experienced players. You like to run around and not care about anything besides the amount of loot that fills your bags. You’d rather farm easy kills and rack up on your champ lord boxes. When I go into EoTM I come out with more champ boxes than heavy loot bags. When I wvw, I come out with more loot bags than champ boxes.

Reason why I keep disagreeing with you is because you ALREADY HAVE EOTM but WANT TO TURN WVW INTO THAT TOO

I forgot 3) Actually do what the majority of us vote for! Not what T1 NA want, and not what the minority want, not what PvE players want, and definitely not what your favourite streamers want!

they need to go back to the roots of real pvp – where rules meant something!

http://wargamingmiscellany.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

they need to lose these pve rules, and stick to the wargame plan that made pvp great to begin with. Update the rules to fit wvw – rules of engagement!

winning a fight because you joined the most populated server is a horrible rule!

yall need some retired army general that loves games to set up some rules!

we need some real military thinking here because that’s how the hard core pvprs play. how some of these teams play, is the way you would see it in a real war environment, same mindset as paintball!

the rules in wvw should be so tight, that the military can use it for specialized training!

THAT will make pvprs happy and save wvw.

any real pvp guild would drool over the opportunity to fight vs the navy on one server and the army on another!

at the moment your chess board is great, but these dodgeball rules have to go!

simple example of a rule that would change how wvw works…

Each game starts out with a budget, the size of your military on your server, affects this budget – each person that logs on removes a certain amount of money – this same money is used to buy siege and do upgrades, this means that an over populated server will have little access to siege and upgrades because most of their funding is going to hosting a large military population. Suddenly the camps aren’t generating enough materials to sustain your army, and people now have to go out and chop wood to keep up with any repairs and to build new siege equipment. This forces a large population to do some industry time to support the war and less time to cap because they have no siege to take down a heavily guarded fort! You’d have to allocate some of the budget to attack a tower.

where a smaller sized server can use this budget to be a stronger military from low overhead and have a greater chance at capping a tower from an economy strained server! ^.^

at that point , you can turn wvw into a ladder, and have servers challenge other servers weekly to climb that ladder! It will also encourage each server to develop it’s own unique play style based on population and governance of such population, making smaller servers easier to manage and more effective in war.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Wrong answer or wrong interpretation?

All I understood was “We do things we can do easily first, so we don’t have to make you wait for the things that take too long.”

It’s “rotten food” with or without “sugar” no matter which order they take. In either case you need to wait for the “big fix”.

It isn’t even that it is the easy things first. The easiest thing to do would be to roll back to a non HoT WvW instead of work on bringing more PvE into WvW ( the new rewards system is supposed to be like the PvE HoT maps participation rewards ). . The problem is they don’t want to do what is actually the easiest.. The problem is their past, current and future plans and those actually need to be changed to make the game mode playable. They are not really changing that. Sure they changed their mind on replacing EBG since the DBL turned out so bad, but until they start designing WvW as a large scale PvP game mode as it’s primary focus , the plan is still going to be bad. Putting in HoT participation rewards and an EoTM alliance system isn’t going to help the current situation.

RedBaron.6058:

lil devils x.6071:

“The WvW team’s current top priority is fixing population imbalance. It’s a really hard technical problem. It has taken us a long time to ship a solution, so it’s been a long time since we’ve shipped significant updates, and of course that hurts.” ~ Mike-OBrien-ArenaNet[

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/

At a high level we plan to address core WvW issues such as population imbalance, scoring issues, and rewards. Of those, the first updates you’ll see will be related to population balance and rewards. ~Anet-TylerB

So there we have it. Game over. They. Just. Do. Not. Get. It. Here, lets shovel some rotten food with sugar all over it and wonder why no one is eating it.

They sat on their hands watching everyone leave.. they jump up again to do the wrong thing at the wrong time and can’t put the nails in the coffin fast enough. Then they are going to pat themselves on the back afterwards " we did everything we could" Nonsense when the one thing they had to do to fix it they refused to do. The end.

WHY is this such a bad answer? Sadly, they are not listening..
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Adding-rewards-b4-Alpine-will-fail/first#post6021249

Population imbalance will resolve itself when they fix the other issues with the game ( including too many servers). Hello Anet, everyone is sitting in queue for EBG because of the DBL boycott, not population imbalance. There are many options to resolve it that are better than their idea of a godawful alliance system. WvW players do not play WvW for rewards, they play it for challenging, strategic Fun PvP ( which they are not receiving currently).

Most WvW players spend $$ to play WvW, they should just be an incentive to do more instead. Pouring sugar on a rotten plate of food is not going to fix it. What they are choosing to do here is kill it faster.

Considering Obrien is now calling the shots for the game and is the one who thinks WvW players <3 PvE, I don’t think I can stand to stick around any longer to watch this painfully dwindle away a slow excruciating death, it has been nauseating enough to watch as it is.

You are completely detached from reality.

Reality is most WvW guilds have left and are leaving. Reality is there is a current DBL boycott that is not going to end. Reality is they are still not treating WvW like a large scale PvP game mode. Reality is the current plan of action is only going to make this worse. Reality is instead of listening to what their WvW players want, they are still trying to handcuff them to the HoT stuff that destroyed the game mode. Reality is players are expecting loot bags but they are just going to get more of the HoT mess. Reality is players ideas of " rewards" ," strategy" ," challenge" ," PvP action", and " Fun" are not the same as the people making the updates to WvW. Their plans to resolve these issues do not include doing what it is the players actually wanted.

I started out long ago trying to be nice about it.. but after so long of watching thousands of players informative, helpful suggestions, opinions, pleas, criticism, and rage quitting go completely ignored on their forums they refuse to use ( that if they do not like the format of their forums it is up to them to change it, because it is their forums btw) as they just made it worse and worse down this path of " WvW players <3 PvE and EoTM madness" That it was time to be a bit blunt about it as I watch more WvW guilds pour out of the game faster than a water hydrant hit by a bus.

I want to know why so many people are so hung up on the weekly score as if it’s some important, competitive thing. If you have a game that’s played 24/7 then the team that can put in the most man-hours is always going to be able to accomplish the most no matter what.

Let’s say Anet somehow built some sort of score handicapping system so that the score was proportional to the average effort of each player instead of the total amount of work done. You might feel a tiny bit better about your efforts being represented or something afterwards but during the match it would make no difference to the gameplay at all. You would still be fighting the same fights against the same players under the same conditions.

The reason why wvw has been in slow decline for years is that the game itself is just plain bad, no matter what relative populations there are. I’ve been in matchups as the blob server and the little guy and everything in between and there’s been no appreciable difference in my gameplay across any of it.

lil devils x.6071:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Wrong answer or wrong interpretation?

All I understood was “We do things we can do easily first, so we don’t have to make you wait for the things that take too long.”

It’s “rotten food” with or without “sugar” no matter which order they take. In either case you need to wait for the “big fix”.

It isn’t even that it is the easy things first. The easiest thing to do would be to roll back to a non HoT WvW instead of work on bringing more PvE into WvW ( the new rewards system is supposed to be like the PvE HoT maps participation rewards ). . The problem is they don’t want to do what is actually the easiest.. The problem is their past, current and future plans and those actually need to be changed to make the game mode playable. They are not really changing that. Sure they changed their mind on replacing EBG since the DBL turned out so bad, but until they start designing WvW as a large scale PvP game mode as it’s primary focus , the plan is still going to be bad. Putting in HoT participation rewards and an EoTM alliance system isn’t going to help the current situation.

A roll back would be impossible due to all the systems being interwoven with eachother. What youre asking is not that simple at all.

FrizzFreston.5290:

lil devils x.6071:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Wrong answer or wrong interpretation?

All I understood was “We do things we can do easily first, so we don’t have to make you wait for the things that take too long.”

It’s “rotten food” with or without “sugar” no matter which order they take. In either case you need to wait for the “big fix”.

It isn’t even that it is the easy things first. The easiest thing to do would be to roll back to a non HoT WvW instead of work on bringing more PvE into WvW ( the new rewards system is supposed to be like the PvE HoT maps participation rewards ). . The problem is they don’t want to do what is actually the easiest.. The problem is their past, current and future plans and those actually need to be changed to make the game mode playable. They are not really changing that. Sure they changed their mind on replacing EBG since the DBL turned out so bad, but until they start designing WvW as a large scale PvP game mode as it’s primary focus , the plan is still going to be bad. Putting in HoT participation rewards and an EoTM alliance system isn’t going to help the current situation.

A roll back would be impossible due to all the systems being interwoven with eachother. What youre asking is not that simple at all.

Depends on what you disable, the problem if they want to add the HoT to the Alpine maps, not just disable that stuff for WvW for now while they work on the rest. It would not be impossible if they roll back EBG too. I have never heard of a game that could not do a pre update roll back.. that would be madness not to keep your safety net in case the whole thing went down.

No matter how much you or anyone else QQ’s, rest assured, WvW will not “die”. It may “die” to you, as you quit, but it will not die from the game…

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

briggah.7910:

Swagger.1459:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The EotM server mechanic is a mistake – period. I doesn’t give good fights, when you blob v blob with uplevels that die so quickly and are clueless to their surroundings.

It would do some good as they are crutches. As soon as a keep is T3, unless the server holding the keep is not on, you can hold the keep indefinitely against anyone. That is not fights, that is just lazy development.

You blob vs blob in wvw too lol… There are as many equally inexperienced players in wvw…

The differences are that wvw has more running time, less fighting and it’s easier to treb structures from safety.

The eotm map layout is superior in design and forces more fights to happen in the open due to less structures to hide in. Also, the tunnel system allows groups traverse the map better, attack objectives faster and for defenders to make it in time to defend objectives.

There are many aspects of eotm that would make wvw far more enjoyable if applied like megaservers to resolve population issues, timed matches so it squashes the day vs night issues, the supply systems, supply at spawn when keep is taken, fun stuff like wisps and scorps, less structures to hide in so it promotes fighting and tunnels to use as mentioned…

Overall eotm is better for players looking for fights and faster paced gameplay. WvW is boring as all get out by comparison.

Not every tier is blob vs blob.. You know why people leave the higher tiers to move towards the middle or lower tiers? Because it is harder to roam and get into more small scale fights being up top. Some prefer this over having map queues and massive fights. It is fine that you enjoy EoTM but can you please stop trying to force that upon all of us? That is your opinion and I’ve done EoTM leveling alts and what I see and what you claim it is, is way off.

Even if I was to go in it today, it would be easy kills because most players are uplevels. Last time this topic came up I went into EoTM to see if it changed and it didn’t. I roamed and killed groups of 3 – 4 that were trying to get back to the zergs by myself because half of them were uplevels and were probably running pve builds.. You either get on a good map or you have to keep trying to get on a good map.. You get on maps where you are just farmed or you do the farming. You get on maps where people just want to k-train instead of fighting.. You get on maps where if you die players rage because they got killed in a pvp environment.

Sorry but I don’t see any of that in WvW. We die, we suck it up and we go back to fight again. If I want to run around taking things, I’ll follow the pug commander. If I want to roam and try to take camps to bring out other roamers, I roam. If I want to find some friendly duels, I look at the spots where most people duel at. EoTM has 1 play style and that is to follow 1 tag.. WvW has them all.

Either way if you like EoTM go play EoTM. Stop trying to turn WvW into that.

Not every tier had or has the population to blob vs blob.

You have a very limited view of eotm and the great potential some of the elements found there would improve wvw.

Improve it for some but make it worse for others. What great elements does EoTM map have? The falling to your death just by looking at the map when you auto run? The tunnels you can run into to run away from fights? The scorpions that are moving siege? The wisps that make you not take damage while in wisp form and you can explode them and knock players off edges???

I answered that question, you are free to read a previous post.

You are embellishing things and grasping at straws in your counter argument.

I didn’t see anything in your previous posts that would improve wvw for EVERYONE besides not being able to treb objectives from another which they gave us in the new maps but went overboard lol You mentioned EoTM map elements. I just listed a bunch of them from EoTM that would not improve the game mode but would add more gimmicks that so many wvw’ers seem to dislike. Funny how you write a lot when you want to turn WvW into EoTM but when others reply to you with counter arguments you have little to nothing to say and basically blow it off.

Either way I didn’t want to go back and forth with you but every time EoTM pops up you are the first one pushing for it saying the same exact thing you’ve said even when others constantly try to tell you that it could possibly destroy wvw as we know it. You are happy with EoTM so play EoTM. I don’t like EoTM so I don’t go there. Maybe since I don’t like EoTM I should try to get it changed into WvW since that is what I prefer?? That is basically what you are doing..

Your problem is that you don’t play in eotm so you don’t look at mechanics and things objectively.

You asked what great elements does eotm have and I already answered those.

You embellish things like the “falling off and being knock off the edge” thing…

It’s easier to run from fights in wvw with all the structures to hide in, it happens all the time. Tunnels in eotm work many ways… Quicker travel for offense and to get to objectives faster to defend. Again, it’s easier to run and hide from a fight in wvw…

So what if scorps are mobile seige, they are also fun.

Wisps have a timer and are also a fun tactic. Again, you embellish the knock back on wisp abilities. Players don’t fight near the edges and there are very few spots where this could happen.

When I have talked about eotm I mostly refer to the player pooling mechanics to fix population issues. Since you have been following my posts in this section so closely then you should have understood that from a long time ago.

The individual server vs individual server vs individual server design doesn’t work obviously. Common sense tells me that an alliance/megaserver system would resolve that major issue across the entire game.

Also, if you don’t go to eotm, then you should spend some time there before you criticize it, the players who go there or my posts.

I must be masochistic today because I’m responding to this.

EotM is not WvW. I consider it a fourth game mode that caters to an different audience. A lot of the things that work in EotM simply won’t work in WvW because the player bases while overlapping a bit are different.

The things that you love so much about EotM I consider PvE gimmicks.

“Players run from fights more often in WvW” – untrue from my experience. You also claimed earlier in this thread that EotM players are as experienced. That statement is very untrue from my experience.

For me there are only 3 reasons for me to go to EotM. 1) Leveling alts 2) Helping guildies get confidence on a new toon by destroying sub-standard players 3) I had a bad day so I make it better by derailing the Ktrain.

I get that you like EotM and I hold nothing against you for liking it but don’t try to bring over EotM style play to WvW.

Don’t worry about responding to this Swagger I already know that it will be something about reading the thread or reading comprehension.

There cant be a fix unless dialogue between players and devs starts.