Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: Rant incoming; long time player, first time complainer.

On behalf of everyone who is thoroughly disgruntled with this server link trash, I’d just like to extend our thanks to ANet for effectively ruining 1/3 of the game for the majority of players. Regardless of how new and shiny it looked at the time and how great of an idea everyone though server linking would be, let me assure you… it most certainly wasn’t.

The Problem
The servers that already had sufficient populations saw no change with the link, other than their positions in the top tiers were solidified even more so. Meanwhile the lower tiers who could have benefited if it was done more carefully have been backed into a corner. ANet, you can’t just slap together 3 and 4 servers willy-nilly, only to sit back, clasp your hands and hope for the best. Furthermore, once you’ve started taking heat for the lack in judgement and poor execution of the server link, polling players on how often they’d like the links to rotate is not a sufficient solution. Stop trying to plug a crumbling dam with chewing gum!

The Effect
As a personal example, I’ve been on GoM since the game’s release. I now find myself struggling to spend time in WvW (or on the game at all) because every week our server(s) is(are) steamrolled by our opponents. What are we to do? Transfer to a higher ranked server like every other bandwagoner that has already done so and leave behind guildmates and friends we’ve had for years? Or stick it out and continue to complain to those who don’t notice, or more likely, don’t care?

More Rambling
WvW has been neglected in comparison to other portions of the game for years and it’s finally coming to a head. I say good! Kudos to the community for finally voicing their opinions in numbers that are becoming harder and harder to ignore. Make no mistake, as paying customers you have every right to let the Devs know when you’re unhappy, and I hope you continue to do so.

The Solution?
I’m sure I can speak for most players when I say we aren’t posting on the forums simply to bash ANet endlessly. Those who are still spending their time on this game and those who are creating thread after thread in the forums are doing so because they believe things can be turned around. They want things to be turned around. ANET YOU’VE GOT TO START LISTENING TO THE MANY BRILLIANT IDEAS YOUR PLAYERS ARE SUGGESTING. Please stop taking the Trump “I alone can fix it” stance. Perhaps you need to rework the servers entirely (disband and reform), perhaps you need to develop some sort of incentive to bring players (down) to other tiers, perhaps both ANet and the players who voted in favour of linking need to acknowledge that the current approach isn’t working and that the partnered servers should be rotated on a more frequent basis. I know I don’t have the answer, but somebody does.

To Close…
ANet, no matter how you cut the mustard, your game is dying. I urge you to breathe new life into it before it’s too late. Stop worrying about lining your pockets. We understand in the end that it’s a business and the name of the game is to make money. However, you get more flies with honey than vinegar. Don’t let the downfall of this game tarnish your name and your credibility because you were too stubborn to do the right thing.

/rant

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

Server linking might have been great for you/your guild but for most people it hasnt… Recruitment has become tough for WvW guild, Linking has already killed 2 servers, people stacked t1 server even more and much more.

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

I’m from gunnars hold, and last server linking we got stomped on alot, this time not so bad. and server pride is a big thing for alot of people on gunnars. Before the server link, we were being stomped on every week lots of guilds left us and such. This linking has been excellent and i feel like when you guys post on the forum saying “most people don’t like this thing” you forget to take into account you cannot know what other people think and it is wrong for you to speak for them.

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

I’m from gunnars hold, and last server linking we got stomped on alot, this time not so bad. and server pride is a big thing for alot of people on gunnars. Before the server link, we were being stomped on every week lots of guilds left us and such. This linking has been excellent and i feel like when you guys post on the forum saying “most people don’t like this thing” you forget to take into account you cannot know what other people think and it is wrong for you to speak for them.

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

CrimeMaker.8612:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

Server linking might have been great for you/your guild but for most people it hasnt… Recruitment has become tough for WvW guild, Linking has already killed 2 servers, people stacked t1 server even more and much more.

I do not see this, most people i encounter in game have positive views about linking, sure, there could be more done, but to colour something as a failure and claim to have the opinion of “most people” is just silly, you cannot know what “most people” think as there is no way to gather that information reliably from all of the wvw servers.

As for stacking, that has always been an issue, anet should just lock tier one and ignore the qq of potential band wagoners saying “omg life is over done with wvw cant transfer to karma mother ship, what do i do?!” every time they lock servers people flock to these forums to cry about it (inb4 malediktus responds with something silly as always)

Anet do listen, but half of the time they seem to listen to the vocal minority, who really shouldn’t be posting ideas onto the internet, let alone having them in the first place, just because they constantly flood this forum with garbage ideas.

Coopa.8937:

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

Because the loudmouths of this forum don’t represent the majority… The polls already showed this, how many times we’ll have to go unto that discussion?

VaaCrow.3076:

CrimeMaker.8612:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

Server linking might have been great for you/your guild but for most people it hasnt… Recruitment has become tough for WvW guild, Linking has already killed 2 servers, people stacked t1 server even more and much more.

I do not see this, most people i encounter in game have positive views about linking, sure, there could be more done, but to colour something as a failure and claim to have the opinion of “most people” is just silly, you cannot know what “most people” think as there is no way to gather that information reliably from all of the wvw servers.

As for stacking, that has always been an issue, anet should just lock tier one and ignore the qq of potential band wagoners saying “omg life is over done with wvw cant transfer to karma mother ship, what do i do?!” every time they lock servers people flock to these forums to cry about it (inb4 malediktus responds with something silly as always)

Anet do listen, but half of the time they seem to listen to the vocal minority, who really shouldn’t be posting ideas onto the internet, let alone having them in the first place, just because they constantly flood this forum with garbage ideas.

Again, these people you speak of who are pleased with the server link are almost certainly on servers that benefit from it by having their positions secured in higher tiers. Due to the fact that they’re in higher tiers, they generally have higher populations and can therefore hold their own in their weekly matchups. If you were to ask people on servers that got the short end of the stick, they would have an entirely different opinion; I would know as I’m on one of them and the general consensus on these servers is that of displeasure.

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

I’m from gunnars hold, and last server linking we got stomped on alot, this time not so bad. and server pride is a big thing for alot of people on gunnars. Before the server link, we were being stomped on every week lots of guilds left us and such. This linking has been excellent and i feel like when you guys post on the forum saying “most people don’t like this thing” you forget to take into account you cannot know what other people think and it is wrong for you to speak for them.

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

People who are happy don’t generally flock to the forums, they are a place for the vocal minority to throw their opinions around to garner attention. Anet should just have a poll " do you think server linking is a success, do you wish for it to continue?"

The result will end arguments in these threads.
WvW is hardly being destroyed, they are pouring constant work into it now. sure, its taken four years, and sure there will be mistakes along the way, but they are striving the improve this game mode. The least you could do is try to be more constructive/positive about what they can/are able to do. ~No change is going to resonate positively with 100% of the wvw players.

Jeknar.6184:

Coopa.8937:

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

Because the loudmouths of this forum don’t represent the majority… The polls already showed this, how many times we’ll have to go unto that discussion?

This, the polls constantly disprove what the vocal minorty of this forum say/think.

+1000%

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

I’m from gunnars hold, and last server linking we got stomped on alot, this time not so bad. and server pride is a big thing for alot of people on gunnars. Before the server link, we were being stomped on every week lots of guilds left us and such. This linking has been excellent and i feel like when you guys post on the forum saying “most people don’t like this thing” you forget to take into account you cannot know what other people think and it is wrong for you to speak for them.

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

People who are happy don’t generally flock to the forums, they are a place for the vocal minority to throw their opinions around to garner attention. Anet should just have a poll " do you think server linking is a success, do you wish for it to continue?"

The result will end arguments in these threads.
WvW is hardly being destroyed, they are pouring constant work into it now. sure, its taken four years, and sure there will be mistakes along the way, but they are striving the improve this game mode.

I agree on the poll idea, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on our opinions of linking as a whole. Either way, I appreciate you bringing your opinion to the thread as it provides content for other players to review and discuss.

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Coopa.8937:

VaaCrow.3076:

Um, I don’t feel like this at all, I love server linking and what it’s done to wvw as does my guild, it’s linked us with similar servers which contain like minded people. Sure, we don’t fight vs the t1 server but who cares, we never wanted to anyway.

As for anet listening, they removed Desert bl, the only new wvw map since eotm , thats a very large step backwards for them to take given that it was done just to please players who did not like the map. i think it’s pretty clear that the devs do listen, it may just be that certain ideas don’t resonate with them, like destroying existing servers

What server are you/your guild on if you don’t mind me asking? With all due respect, I’m sure it’s not one of the bottom tiers that, as I said, has been steamrolled every single week for months on end; this would account for some bias in your opinion. Realistically, I don’t understand this whole server pride thing to be honest. I’d much rather have enjoyable battles with comparable servers on a daily basis than be able to say “I’m from GoM, and we get clobbered regardless of the matchup”. To your point about the Desert BLs, it’s essentially the same thing as this. They tried something, the community revolted, and ANet had to back pedal or face the consequences. What’s any different this time around, other than the fact that rather than taking the easy route and going back to what was, they’d have to try something new.

I’m from gunnars hold, and last server linking we got stomped on alot, this time not so bad. and server pride is a big thing for alot of people on gunnars. Before the server link, we were being stomped on every week lots of guilds left us and such. This linking has been excellent and i feel like when you guys post on the forum saying “most people don’t like this thing” you forget to take into account you cannot know what other people think and it is wrong for you to speak for them.

I mean… the posts speak for themselves. If that many people were in favour of the server links, why don’t we see threads of them defending the idea? A quick glance at the forums finds the opposing threads outnumber the in favour ones by a large margin.

People who are happy don’t generally flock to the forums, they are a place for the vocal minority to throw their opinions around to garner attention. Anet should just have a poll " do you think server linking is a success, do you wish for it to continue?"

The result will end arguments in these threads.
WvW is hardly being destroyed, they are pouring constant work into it now. sure, its taken four years, and sure there will be mistakes along the way, but they are striving the improve this game mode. The least you could do is try to be more constructive/positive about what they can/are able to do. ~No change is going to resonate positively with 100% of the wvw players.

This is why I love the polls.

Jeknar.6184:

The polls already showed this, how many times we’ll have to go unto that discussion?

This doesn’t mean opinions don’t change. I voted in favour of linking when the idea was presented; it was something new to try and looked good in theory. But guess what, after experiencing what it has done to the server I’m on I’d go back change my vote if I could, and I have a feeling I’m not alone.

The linking may be good in many ways but as a long time player in BP I now play A LOT LESS wvw than I ever did before. I simply have zero incentive to go fight for “my” server since it has no home anymore. I simply go in now and then to have some fun with friends. I used to be in wvw about 95% of the time. Now it’s about half on a good day.

Also due to the linking my time IN GW2 has gone from around four hrs a day to as low as one. And many days I don’t even play… And for me that says alot!

I wish they’d found a way to letting guest servers keep their names. Think it would help with the community identity. And red = enemy, it’s not confusing.

Everyone above needs to realize that Coopa is on Gate of Madness, as am I, and has experienced part of that 2v3v4 fiasco in Tier 4. Even now, though, the DH and SF server pairs aren’t strong enough to take on anything that pops down to T4. Yes, the majority wanted to continue with linking per the polls, and the first linking matchups I thought were pretty good. For NA T4 this round…not so much. Hopefully the next round of pairings in late August will restore our faith in server linkings, at least for those of us in NA T4, since most other tiers seem relatively happy.

Sylvyn.4750:

Everyone above needs to realize that Coopa is on Gate of Madness, as am I, and has experienced part of that 2v3v4 fiasco in Tier 4. Even now, though, the DH and SF server pairs aren’t strong enough to take on anything that pops down to T4. Yes, the majority wanted to continue with linking per the polls, and the first linking matchups I thought were pretty good. For NA T4 this round…not so much. Hopefully the next round of pairings in late August will restore our faith in server linkings, at least for those of us in NA T4, since most other tiers seem relatively happy.

Well said. I think some people are under the impression that players on lower tiers are upset because they’re a lower tier. From what I’m gathering that’s not really the case, at least for me it isn’t. Being on a low tier isn’t a big deal to me at all, but I want to face servers of comparable population or skill or what have you. All I’m saying is I miss when the fights were relatively competitive and not a cake walk for one server and a nightmare for the other two.

Coopa.8937:

Sylvyn.4750:

Everyone above needs to realize that Coopa is on Gate of Madness, as am I, and has experienced part of that 2v3v4 fiasco in Tier 4. Even now, though, the DH and SF server pairs aren’t strong enough to take on anything that pops down to T4. Yes, the majority wanted to continue with linking per the polls, and the first linking matchups I thought were pretty good. For NA T4 this round…not so much. Hopefully the next round of pairings in late August will restore our faith in server linkings, at least for those of us in NA T4, since most other tiers seem relatively happy.

Well said. I think some people are under the impression that players on lower tiers are upset because they’re a lower tier. From what I’m gathering that’s not really the case, at least for me it isn’t. Being on a low tier isn’t a big deal to me at all, but I want to face servers of comparable population or skill or what have you. All I’m saying is I miss when the fights were relatively competitive and not a cake walk for one server and a nightmare for the other two.

Exactly, it’s not about the tier, it’s about having more balanced matchups rather than the constant blowouts over the last 6 resets. It doesn’t have to be exactly balanced, but give us more like 10v15 fights instead of 10v30.

It a simple and well known observation that across all industries people happy with the service provided by a given firm are far less likely to write a letter of thanks than are people not happy wanting to write and complain.

It also true that when a group of people are always complaining on a given forum , those with a more positive outlook will not as regularly visit the same.

Counting the number of persons complaints in a forum is not an objective way of trying to determine how happy people are with a game.

Now that hardly means there are not issues with Wvw but I am pretty sure ANET is aware of that and would make the added observation that the tendency of individuals to want to jump server to server in order to win is not only in great part something that is hard to control , but makes it very hard to monitor population sizes accurately.

I would like to point out that in the NHL there some teams that have weak fan support and in many cases will see more fans cheering for a visiting team than their own. I am not sure that can be laid on the NHL executive as they can not force a fan to cheer for or support a given team.

don’t bother Coopa, some of my posts already got deleted for pointing out the failure with the polls. GoM is pretty much dead. I hardly ever logon anymore I just check forums for when there is a vote going on. Let these people continue to ignore the problem and think things are going in the right direction. We already went from 2 server links to 3/4 server links. Soon they’ll need 5+ links and they’ll end up with their last 3-6 servers and zerg train pirate ship cannon meta. And when they notice then it’ll be too late to fix anything.

Just a thought here, but what if there were two separate scores. One for upper tiers and a second for the lower tiers. The second score would determine what server would pair with another. That would maintain some server pride and still hopefully keep people playing. Not sure how points are gathered, if it could be separated in some way.

If ANet metrics show that more players are entering WvW now, which I strongly suspect, then Anet is going to believe that forum complaints are just the usual outliers. Long live our overlord Metrics.

I’ll never cease to be amazed by people’s capacity for hyperbole and logical fallacies.

Coopa.8937:

Jeknar.6184:

The polls already showed this, how many times we’ll have to go unto that discussion?

This doesn’t mean opinions don’t change. I voted in favour of linking when the idea was presented; it was something new to try and looked good in theory. But guess what, after experiencing what it has done to the server I’m on I’d go back change my vote if I could, and I have a feeling I’m not alone.

It also doesn’t mean that development of new features, systems, etc. can even remotely keep up with changing opinions, even if they were true, which they aren’t and I disagree with you entirely.

While unfortunately you got shafted with the current link and glicko hell, that does not mean it will go on forever. This is only the 2nd link. 1st they made the mistake of linking T1 overstacked servers, who did not need any sort of links or population boosts in the 1st place, now they made the mistake of creating the 4 server link.

The 4 server link just by itself would have actually been OK, but it drew in so many players that just wanted to see it, there is quite a bit of resurgeance going on there. Kinda like BG woke up a while ago and is now going back into hibernation.

So what you are proposing is to destroy the whole linking in order to smooth things out just for those players. That just won’t happen.

While you do represent a vocal minority, it is just that. Rest of us are in the game playing.

You also completely missed the point of the links, links were not supposed to balance populations, they can’t. The only thing that can is forcibly spreading out full and high population servers and then forcefully locking it all down. Can you guess how that would go over ?

Links were supposed to provide you with people to play with and against, to find action. And there they have succeeded beautifully. Now the quality of action, and what kind of action, those are different matters

It does suck to be stuck like this through no fault of your own, but it is still the lesser evil to empty and devoid maps like we had before all the changes started. At least you get your kitten kicked, but you get to play in doing so, before, you simply couldn’t even play.

Honestly all we need is glicko to be reseted every pairing and surely fiascos like T4 won’t happen again. If CD moved up sooner, maybe T4 would still be active. Now it’s a wasteland because everyone bailed out of it and there is no T3 server that will fit as the 3rd contenter.

IndigoSundown.5419:

If ANet metrics show that more players are entering WvW now, which I strongly suspect, then Anet is going to believe that forum complaints are just the usual outliers. Long live our overlord Metrics.

Meanwhile, those metrics are besed on returning players that left, and are just seing what the update did to the classes.

It is a temporary influx.

Aeolus.3615:

IndigoSundown.5419:

If ANet metrics show that more players are entering WvW now, which I strongly suspect, then Anet is going to believe that forum complaints are just the usual outliers. Long live our overlord Metrics.

Meanwhile, those metrics are besed on returning players that left, and are just seing what the update did to the classes.

It is a temporary influx.

lol, spot on.

Well it is an old game. You will always see a downclimb on numbers in total over time. So every temporary influx is GREAT.

I LOVE the server linking and am playing a lot more since it has been done. Now there are bigger guilds roaming around for fights again, more tags popping up, the ts is more active. I am playing a lot more since the change. I also play more because the alpine BLs are back, and they give much more space for fights and zergs clashing while having less pve. But it is like always, the happy guys have less reason to consult the forums.

Jeknar.6184:

Honestly all we need is glicko to be reseted every pairing and surely fiascos like T4 won’t happen again. If CD moved up sooner, maybe T4 would still be active. Now it’s a wasteland because everyone bailed out of it and there is no T3 server that will fit as the 3rd contenter.

Pretty much this. I’d take GoM pre-link in current tier 4 over our 3 server pair atm. Everyone is gone, transferred or just doesn’t care anymore.

Tongku.5326:

The 4 server link just by itself would have actually been OK, but it drew in so many players that just wanted to see it, there is quite a bit of resurgeance going on there. Kinda like BG woke up a while ago and is now going back into hibernation.

You really believe it’s just players waking up from hibernation? I mean one has to wonder, Darkhaven was a host server in the first link that got beat pretty much every match up, they obviously lost players. Ehmry Bay was linked with HoD and they were winning during that time, but they had lost at least 2 of their top big wvw guilds who figured t4 was going to get locked so they moved. Eredon terrace was linked with Blackgate, which most likely gained some players due to them wanting to play with BG.

Looking at that situation was it really wise to keep Darkhaven as a host?, link them them Ehmry which had lost players and kept that as a 2 link, while placing the one server that was linked with the top t1 server into the 4 link? The 4 link that is now currently 400 points away from taking over t3 btw.

They created a t3 sized server and placed them in t4, and for what reason? to try and have them screw over the other two t4 servers to break into t3? which they eventually had to manually intervene to help happen anyways. I still believe the weakest of the 4 links should have been matched with DH/EB, and maybe t4 would have been more even. If it turned out that DH/EB/Whomever were winning at least it would have been tolerable, two servers who lost players would maybe gain a boost.

Only bothered to log on my t4 account once, and it was into ebg where we were getting double teamed and then camped by sf and cd, not my idea of fun. Thankfully I have accounts higher up.

I’m still not sure how Anet is looking at the link matching, are they trying to match population of servers to just their tier? because there’s an obvious gap between all tiers. Are they matching population to servers 2 tiers around them? (which they did with the 4 link creating a t3 server). It’s obviously not trying to get even populations from 1-12, or most of the links would be just the t3 t4 servers.

Maybe Anet really is only looking at raw numbers and thought it was good matchings, I don’t know. That 4 link just looked terrible from the moment most of us laid eyes on it. The way I look at the tiers now is it would be nice if t1 and t2 servers all had closer populations so that a rotation could happen there, the same for t3 and t4 servers, so that if there was a wall it was between t2 and t3, not between kitten or t3 t4. The “gold” and “silver” leagues if you will.

Meh whatever, these days doesn’t seem like there’s any urgency from anet to help fix this dying game mode and start growing it again, everything is just a stopgap to the bleeding. Remember spvp getting their push? of course you do when they flashed all that tournament money around. I believe the current wvw dev team is doing what they can, but it ain’t enough after 3 years, and planning for stuff like more siege isn’t going to help.

linking is a fail – just merge some servers and be done with it. Or some kind of alliance angle. Linking encourages bandwagon behaviour and kills/diltues the small communities with the constant changing…. does Anet even realize how special WvW communities are? We all have our websites/TS/personalities/identity beyond what they can see in their charts.

IMO the 2 biggest dangers to WvW, and why truck loads of players are leaving is a.) Linking b.) Skill lag. There are issues too, but these are the big ones.

I don’t agree at all. The server linking did allow for much more diverse gameplay, more population on small tier servers while maintaining the server-identity.
Forcing servers to merge would destroy the latter, destroy the small communities you are talking about and make a lot of people very angry.

Bandwagoning: why should this be a cause of linking? Links change every two months. The guilds leaving some servers has always been an issue and you can do it as well if you don’t care about your identity. It would obviously get even worse when marging would be done because the merged server would be linked permanently (hence more reason to go there) and because the identity that we build up for years would be gone as well.

You want to talk about community? The Borlis Pass web site used to be popping with activity… it slowly wound down since linking started to being basically dead now. The things that the server used to do as SERVER activities don’t exist anymore. Sure BP folks are around and many still go into WvW. But these days I see a lot more other folks than I do the BP folks I used to run with a lot. .. and as I said, the site is dead.

Yes I can see when I go into wvw that it’s busy in there a lot of the time but at what cost? So many people including me simply don’t play like we used to. -sigh-

Rink.6108:

I don’t agree at all. The server linking did allow for much more diverse gameplay, more population on small tier servers while maintaining the server-identity.
Forcing servers to merge would destroy the latter, destroy the small communities you are talking about and make a lot of people very angry.

You think the small communities haven’t been adversely affected? I don’t know what makes you think that the small servers retained any identity other than knowing that they used to belong to a server that fought other servers and had their server name showing in the wvw menu and rating scores.

What identity are you talking about? I’ve been BP since I started this game. I have friends that are still BP… but BP isn’t what it used to be. The community events don’t exist anymore. The ’FIGHT FOR BP" is gone. We simply pug for CD.

in SBI I am seeing the opposite. People are now organising wvw-raids because they actually are able to get players together to go to wvw instead of 3-4 people only, commanders are teaching new players how to play wvw again (something I haven’t seen for a long time, because there weren’t enougn people around), etc.

Of course it isn’t the same for all communities. But what do you think has to be done to make your BP communities better? How would a server-merge save that? Would having no link and thus a lot less wvw players really solve the problem? I think it has to do with the game being old and players leaving for other games and having more players in wvw again was exactly what I needed to have fun again and play more often. But everyone likes different stuff I guess.

But I understand that it is harder to maintain identity if you are just a “+” on the matchup and this would be an easy thing to solve by showing BP their own name on the matchup on their BL, etc.

Rink.6108:

in SBI I am seeing the opposite. People are now organising wvw-raids because they actually are able to get players together to go to wvw instead of 3-4 people only, commanders are teaching new players how to play wvw again (something I haven’t seen for a long time, because there weren’t enougn people around), etc.

SBI is a server that retained its identity, if you can’t see the difference……….

Rink.6108:

in SBI I am seeing the opposite. People are now organising wvw-raids because they actually are able to get players together to go to wvw instead of 3-4 people only, commanders are teaching new players how to play wvw again (something I haven’t seen for a long time, because there weren’t enougn people around), etc.

Of course it isn’t the same for all communities. But what do you think has to be done to make your BP communities better? How would a server-merge save that? Would having no link and thus a lot less wvw players really solve the problem? I think it has to do with the game being old and players leaving for other games and having more players in wvw again was exactly what I needed to have fun again and play more often. But everyone likes different stuff I guess.

But I understand that it is harder to maintain identity if you are just a “+” on the matchup and this would be an easy thing to solve by showing BP their own name on the matchup on their BL, etc.

I don’t think a server-merge would save anything as far as the community of any server goes that is being swallowed up. I do know that there are plenty of BP folks running in WvW and doing their thing so I’m not trying to say that BP is gone from WvW… What I am saying is that what I used to see as cohesive spirit of the community doesn’t seem to exist really anymore. Like I said, the site is all but dead with the last post on it being July 23rd.. we used to have many posts daily.

Yes, it’s much more active in WvW than it was before, and for me it’s fun running with people I know of course. But it’s just that now.. it’s a fun place to pop into and have a good time with some friends then leave. I don’t see people that I know scouting keeps, towers, etc like we used to. I do see roaming groups here and there since I like to do that, but it’s for fun or for missions then it’s ‘out of here’. I mean, I used to spend hours in our own BL just scouting, maintaining, countering roamers etc. That sort of thing doesn’t seem to exist much anymore with minor exceptions here and there (that I see).

After all is said and done I’m really glad that this has been a good change for many people. I have no ill feelings because other people are finding ways to ‘make it work’. But I know that when the next server re-linking happens it’s a good chance that we will yet again be moved to another host, and so on. No matter what good fun this is for some of you folks at SBI it’s still making a lot of us just feel like pugs on another server, here for the fights… and that’s about it.

Now I was missing for a while, but coming back TC is now Tier 1 (Not really a surprise since they we were strong in Tier 2 simply by numbers) and getting it’s butt kicked by DB + IOJ which were not gold tier servers. Seems to me it worked for some servers and not others. I can say I’m a little disappointed that match-ups aren’t more flexible. I expected to see more varied match ups, but meh. Reward tracks are cool.

In another scenario, players transferring servers can cause this same kittenty effect. Not very valid points considering all the variables when it comes to population and game balance.

Balthazzarr.1349:

After all is said and done I’m really glad that this has been a good change for many people. I have no ill feelings because other people are finding ways to ‘make it work’. But I know that when the next server re-linking happens it’s a good chance that we will yet again be moved to another host, and so on. No matter what good fun this is for some of you folks at SBI it’s still making a lot of us just feel like pugs on another server, here for the fights… and that’s about it.

Actually I am running a lot with our partner-server HoD atm, their guild groups and commanders. But maybe the matchup SBI and HoD works so well, because both servers are similarly strong. There are times in the day when HoD dominates and SBI dominates at other times, so maybe that helps for people not just being pugs for another server. Scouts and refreshing siege works better imho, because we have less time of the day with almost nobody on, but yes, it aren’t always the few people that did it every day before the linking, but I still see most of them doing it. But ok, I think SBI always was a more “casual” server that was more about fun fights than actually winning the matchup anyway so maybe our ppt-community is less big than on other servers.
I see your point and understand that it must feel differently if you are a small “+”-server. Maybe it would be a better solution, to link similarly strong servers, so all of them feel important in the matchup.

VaaCrow.3076:

People who are happy don’t generally flock to the forums, they are a place for the vocal minority to throw their opinions around to garner attention. Anet should just have a poll " do you think server linking is a success, do you wish for it to continue?"

The result will end arguments in these threads.

LMAO!!!! The poll results will not end these stupid arguments from the loud minority here. I still see people posting about how bringing back DBL is the stupidest idea on earth and “MOST” want it gone…..EVEN though in the poll asking if we should keep dbl, that vocal minority that so hated dbls got their butts kicked absolutely sideways, by a 2-1 margin.

But still, some insist that ‘most players hate dbls’, even though the facts don’t even slightly back up that claim.

Just sit back, grab some popcorn, and have a good chuckle at these few that ‘know what’s best for the game’ stumble all over themselves as poll after poll proves them to be the fools that they actually are.

Yea, am sure I will get warned for this post, as I probably just violated all of 5 posters’ safe places.

Edit: And while I may think that linking might not be the best solution, and is kind of goofy at times, it is sure one heck of a lot better than spending most of my time in wvw looking for any good battles in a lower tiered server. At least there is plenty of action out there now most of the time.

Teon.5168:

Edit: And while I may think that linking might not be the best solution, and is kind of goofy at times, it is sure one heck of a lot better than spending most of my time in wvw looking for any good battles in a lower tiered server. At least there is plenty of action out there now most of the time.

This is relative, though. For me, on FC:

BEFORE
+ Decent roaming 35%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 35%
- Over-matched (bad) battles 20%
- Nothing to do 10%

NOW
+ Decent roaming 5%
- Roflstomped by a mini herd while roaming 20%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 10%
- Roflstomped by the unstoppable herd battles 55%
- Running back to be roflstomped again 10%

Now, maybe the subtraction of 10% nothing-to-do was a good thing, but the overall percentage of good went down from ~70% of the time I spent in WvW to ~15%.

Disclaimer: numbers are guesstimates and ommv depending on sever, time of day, etc.

Faik, there’s nothing but balanced battles in higher tiers, but in the depths of T4 NA, two servers and their linkees seem destined to have the other server be someone who belongs in T3 as far as population balance goes. Also, faik, T4 doesn’t matter to the lion’s share of people who play WvW (who are on the higher pop servers).

Finally, to be fair, at least part of the roflstomping I see now seems to be due at least in part to boonshare bull-gravy. Numbers already provide an advantage, but as we know, ANet boons serve as force multipliers which give an even greater advantage to the larger group.

It’s… almost like historically every game that’s merged servers has seen more damage caused later on from merging servers, because merging servers only fixes the symptoms of a problem and not the problem itself which led to the need to merge them to begin with.

2 months is too long. If you want temporary pairings, abandon glicko and do it right by changing it weekly and making matchups by metric data by how the servers play and are populated.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Teon.5168:

Edit: And while I may think that linking might not be the best solution, and is kind of goofy at times, it is sure one heck of a lot better than spending most of my time in wvw looking for any good battles in a lower tiered server. At least there is plenty of action out there now most of the time.

This is relative, though. For me, on FC:

BEFORE
+ Decent roaming 35%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 35%
- Over-matched (bad) battles 20%
- Nothing to do 10%

NOW
+ Decent roaming 5%
- Roflstomped by a mini herd while roaming 20%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 10%
- Roflstomped by the unstoppable herd battles 55%
- Running back to be roflstomped again 10%

Now, maybe the subtraction of 10% nothing-to-do was a good thing, but the overall percentage of good went down from ~70% of the time I spent in WvW to ~15%.

Disclaimer: numbers are guesstimates and ommv depending on sever, time of day, etc.

Faik, there’s nothing but balanced battles in higher tiers, but in the depths of T4 NA, two servers and their linkees seem destined to have the other server be someone who belongs in T3 as far as population balance goes. Also, faik, T4 doesn’t matter to the lion’s share of people who play WvW (who are on the higher pop servers).

Finally, to be fair, at least part of the roflstomping I see now seems to be due at least in part to boonshare bull-gravy. Numbers already provide an advantage, but as we know, ANet boons serve as force multipliers which give an even greater advantage to the larger group.

Just be patient. Once Dbl comes back into the mix, you’ll get lots of good roaming opportunities…..and I am saying that in a positive tone.

Plus, I would be curious as to how you arrived at your percentages. I am assuming that it was done with sound statistical analysis?

Teon.5168:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Teon.5168:

Edit: And while I may think that linking might not be the best solution, and is kind of goofy at times, it is sure one heck of a lot better than spending most of my time in wvw looking for any good battles in a lower tiered server. At least there is plenty of action out there now most of the time.

This is relative, though. For me, on FC:

BEFORE
+ Decent roaming 35%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 35%
- Over-matched (bad) battles 20%
- Nothing to do 10%

NOW
+ Decent roaming 5%
- Roflstomped by a mini herd while roaming 20%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 10%
- Roflstomped by the unstoppable herd battles 55%
- Running back to be roflstomped again 10%

Now, maybe the subtraction of 10% nothing-to-do was a good thing, but the overall percentage of good went down from ~70% of the time I spent in WvW to ~15%.

Disclaimer: numbers are guesstimates and ommv depending on sever, time of day, etc.

Faik, there’s nothing but balanced battles in higher tiers, but in the depths of T4 NA, two servers and their linkees seem destined to have the other server be someone who belongs in T3 as far as population balance goes. Also, faik, T4 doesn’t matter to the lion’s share of people who play WvW (who are on the higher pop servers).

Finally, to be fair, at least part of the roflstomping I see now seems to be due at least in part to boonshare bull-gravy. Numbers already provide an advantage, but as we know, ANet boons serve as force multipliers which give an even greater advantage to the larger group.

Just be patient. Once Dbl comes back into the mix, you’ll get lots of good roaming opportunities…..and I am saying that in a positive tone.

Plus, I would be curious as to how you arrived at your percentages. I am assuming that it was done with sound statistical analysis?

Read the Disclaimer. Even if I kept careful notes and used a timer, my numbers would not be representative of other players on different servers, playing in different tiers, at different times and with different inclinations.

The numbers represent a best guess, thus the disclaimer. I was using them as an indicator for how much more I used to enjoy WvW and how much less I’m enjoying it now. If anything, I underestimated. Virtually any time anyone tries to do anything in T4 in the times I play, we draw the attention of the ravening horde.

This comment from chat tonight sums it up:

Player 1: Eyes on their zerg?
Player 2: You speak as if they only have one.

Teon.5168:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Teon.5168:

Edit: And while I may think that linking might not be the best solution, and is kind of goofy at times, it is sure one heck of a lot better than spending most of my time in wvw looking for any good battles in a lower tiered server. At least there is plenty of action out there now most of the time.

This is relative, though. For me, on FC:

BEFORE
+ Decent roaming 35%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 35%
- Over-matched (bad) battles 20%
- Nothing to do 10%

NOW
+ Decent roaming 5%
- Roflstomped by a mini herd while roaming 20%
+ Good, fun balanced battles 10%
- Roflstomped by the unstoppable herd battles 55%
- Running back to be roflstomped again 10%

Now, maybe the subtraction of 10% nothing-to-do was a good thing, but the overall percentage of good went down from ~70% of the time I spent in WvW to ~15%.

Disclaimer: numbers are guesstimates and ommv depending on sever, time of day, etc.

Faik, there’s nothing but balanced battles in higher tiers, but in the depths of T4 NA, two servers and their linkees seem destined to have the other server be someone who belongs in T3 as far as population balance goes. Also, faik, T4 doesn’t matter to the lion’s share of people who play WvW (who are on the higher pop servers).

Finally, to be fair, at least part of the roflstomping I see now seems to be due at least in part to boonshare bull-gravy. Numbers already provide an advantage, but as we know, ANet boons serve as force multipliers which give an even greater advantage to the larger group.

Just be patient. Once Dbl comes back into the mix, you’ll get lots of good roaming opportunities…..and I am saying that in a positive tone.

Plus, I would be curious as to how you arrived at your percentages. I am assuming that it was done with sound statistical analysis?

Those are what you call POOMA stats..

but but my little community.

Players who want to win will find a way to get around darn near any sort of balance that is achieved through population fixes. I’ve never played a game that has this specific issue. Because we are facing a balancing act of a number of supposed problems. “night” capping, people jumping onto a winning matchup, server linking, glicko and so on. I don’t think its fair to say that the Devs are responsible for killing this mode off. Heck, I know people who have been playing WvW with no break since it came out. (Yes, I think they are crazy too.) Without any real data to back that up, we simply don’t know. I believe people are leaving WvW also. But we don’t know that for sure. Its summer time, a lot of people in the States are on vacation, a ton of games came out this summer too. If this is the home base game for many people, which it is, they’ll come back.

The question remains for how long will they come back? We desperately need some changes and a rebranding of the game mode. A competition, some new reward tracks, something. Heck, even a GvG leaderboard. Something. Without the server pride angle folks aren’t finding the bragging rights enough anymore.

Personally I moved servers down to the lower tiers. I want a low stress environment that is filled with more fun people. If the mode isn’t going to be entertaining or serious, I’m not going to treat it as such. Being competitive is key here and allowing everyone to dictate their own good time. We aren’t there yet.

Fatherbliss.4701:

Players who want to win will find a way to get around darn near any sort of balance that is achieved through population fixes. I’ve never played a game that has this specific issue. Because we are facing a balancing act of a number of supposed problems. “night” capping, people jumping onto a winning matchup, server linking, glicko and so on. I don’t think its fair to say that the Devs are responsible for killing this mode off. Heck, I know people who have been playing WvW with no break since it came out. (Yes, I think they are crazy too.) Without any real data to back that up, we simply don’t know. I believe people are leaving WvW also. But we don’t know that for sure. Its summer time, a lot of people in the States are on vacation, a ton of games came out this summer too. If this is the home base game for many people, which it is, they’ll come back.

The question remains for how long will they come back? We desperately need some changes and a rebranding of the game mode. A competition, some new reward tracks, something. Heck, even a GvG leaderboard. Something. Without the server pride angle folks aren’t finding the bragging rights enough anymore.

Personally I moved servers down to the lower tiers. I want a low stress environment that is filled with more fun people. If the mode isn’t going to be entertaining or serious, I’m not going to treat it as such. Being competitive is key here and allowing everyone to dictate their own good time. We aren’t there yet.

I agree…it’s not fair to say the Devs are responsible…and they’re crazy for trying.

The current WvW design make it extremely difficult to provide solutions to the problems that we’re all very familiar with.

It’s like trying to bake a Thanksgiving Day Turkey with Tofu as your main ingredient.