Guild Wars 2

When was the last time you came across somebody getting rolled by 3 of your server mates and didn’t add in on the fight to get credit for the kill?

When was the last time you were running with the zerg and decided to not try for the other server’s keep because you were smashing them so badly all night already and figured they needed a break?

The answer is probably NEVER. And it hardly ever happens if it ever even does.

The name of the game in WvW is to rick roll the enemy. I almost never engage in nor even see fair fights out in WvW whether they are small man fights or large scale zerg vs. zerg fights. You just don’t get fairness out there because that’s what an open world environment is, UNFAIR! And people always try to take advantage of that.

If you want “fair” the closest thing you can get to it is SPvP. If you love to gank the crap outta some poor guy who thought he could catch up to his zerg by crossing your side of the map. GANK HIM AND LOVE IT! And be ready for it to happen to you too.

And when 2am rolls around and you have 5 people on your server defending your keep against 50 opposing players… have fun with it. Spam on their faces with ACs, hold out until you cannot hold out any longer. Bail out at the last second to not feed them or die valiantly in the circle whatever you feel like doing.

I fight in WvW all the time. It’s never fair! I don’t even care! I just want to roll fools by taking full advantage of any situation where I have the upper hand and leaving the situation whenever I don’t.

Matchups, T1 servers, scores, etc. etc. can all go take a hike. But if you think I am going to let you sneak past me to get to your karma train you are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Actually, for the most part, EU players tend to leave two players fighting alone and run off to do other things. There have been countless times I’ve run past two players duking it out, sometimes I sit and watch, but more often I’ll just head off and leave them be. Likewise has happened to me duelling with someone else, most will leave you alone to fight it out. Must be a cultural thing.

That said, I agree, WvW isn’t meant to be fair. But half the fun is in outsmarting the enemy with fewer numbers.

thanks for explaining guildwars 2 is a platform for bullies.

It’s a PvP game mode, (in spite of what a net says) therefore it should have at least some sort of balance in place. As it stands right now having the same 7-9 stacked servers being the only competitive ones is a problem, in spite of any apologists arguments.

It is indeed a PvP game mode, but it has always been advertised as an unbalanced game mode.
That has always been said, since before release.
The fact that people don’t seem to accept that it is supposed to be unbalanced doesn’t mean that it being unbalanced is wrong.

How about we let thieves 1-shot everything. Not just massive damage, I mean instant kill no matter how much HP, and no downed state. And golems only take 1 supply to build, but T2 gates take 5 days to research. Allow mesmers to portal any number of people, anywhere on the map, whether or not the mesmer can even get there to place the portal. Guardians heal everyone on the map 50k hp every time they take a step. And lets nerf rangers down to only doing 1 point of damage with each attack.

Hey, it isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced right? Might as well just go wild.

To each their own. I can actually answer with “I don’t remember” to both your questions with pride and I will happily cross OP and his gank squad’s path and tell y’all to bring it.

It’s highly unlikely, but if I ever caught you guys alone, the things I’d do…

I accept that wvw is unbalanced, but until anet properly addresses players like me, it’s where you will find me. EU sounds like it’s my sort of place since it seems that the american servers are either run by wolves or some sort of humanoid creature with the ability to mash 1 vigorously.

I enjoy looking for 1:1 fights with my 10 person groups just to ruin these fights.

And I enjoy looking for you when you’re all alone so I can stake you.

If I come across a 1v1, I watch, if I come across a 2v1 or 3v1 (unless i’m with the zerg) I tend to let them go without attacking..

I can tell you personally though, It is rare for that to happen to myself…People will go out of their way to zerg me down it seems.

DootmasterX.3025:

It’s a PvP game mode, (in spite of what a net says) therefore it should have at least some sort of balance in place. As it stands right now having the same 7-9 stacked servers being the only competitive ones is a problem, in spite of any apologists arguments.

I agree with the OP.

I also want to point out, that the same 7-9 stacked servers were stacked by the players, not Anet. Who are you to tell those players they couldn’t transfer if they wanted to? If the players want all the servers to be competitive, then it is up to us to police ourselves. But, the reality is, a lot of players don’t want that. They just want to be on a server with huge fights, coverage, etc. That is what is fun to them. If they want to spend the money to get there, then so be it. If they want to be stuck in a queue during the season, that is on them.

Why count points then? Remove score or make it fair.

I never interrupt 1vs1 fights even if I see my ally losing. Let ppl have proper duels.

But WvW has nothing to do with honor most of the time, I agree with OP.

I always interrupt. I even use all my movement skills so i can just tag enemy. Usually these who duel use some coward fotm build and get kitten on if they can kill some cleric staff ele or glamour mesmer who doesn’t even have any kind of skills to fight back.

The “fairness” of wvw comes from the simple fact every server has access to the same thing.

you can’t balance a three way fight, be it servers, factions and guilds. Mainly because you can’t make people show up and fight. Well people like to blame others for stacking, really that’s a lame excuse. You can’t blame people who enjoy wvw and fighting in wvw for moving to servers where they will always have a fight.

Samhayn.2385:

The “fairness” of wvw comes from the simple fact every server has access to the same thing.

you can’t balance a three way fight, be it servers, factions and guilds. Mainly because you can’t make people show up and fight. Well people like to blame others for stacking, really that’s a lame excuse. You can’t blame people who enjoy wvw and fighting in wvw for moving to servers where they will always have a fight.

Don’t blame the guys who moved, blame the ones that paid them to do it and the ones that designed it.

Julie Yann.5379:

Samhayn.2385:

The “fairness” of wvw comes from the simple fact every server has access to the same thing.

you can’t balance a three way fight, be it servers, factions and guilds. Mainly because you can’t make people show up and fight. Well people like to blame others for stacking, really that’s a lame excuse. You can’t blame people who enjoy wvw and fighting in wvw for moving to servers where they will always have a fight.

Don’t blame the guys who moved, blame the ones that paid them to do it and the ones that designed it.

Don’t blame anyone. It was their decision to move. Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

Junkpile.7439:

Why count points then? Remove score or make it fair.

Life isn’t fair, the sooner people deal with that, the better. Also, people really don’t want fair, they really only want what is in their best interest. That is what being a human is all about. We are not an alturistic species.

Now, the scoring system is fair. NA primetime people on NA servers are gonna complain it isn’t fair. EU primetime on EU servers as well. But, the reality is, that people do play this game when you are not logged in. Their contributions need to count toward the score as well. it is World vs World vs World. Everyone on that world has the same opportunity to play and make a difference for their world.

People want to cut the oceanics and sea time players out of the mix. Or the college / stay at home parents / unemployed gamers as well.

Maybe, we should try to get more of our communities involved in WvW, especially in the off hours, instead of complaining that the game is unfair, or even complaining that PvE players don’t belong in WvW.

if wvw was expected and intended to be unbalanced, then why add a score ?
- from this perspective the best score represents the most dysfunctional and delusional groups that insist on placing value on the score.

Perhaps it was part of a psychological experiment ?

“Let’s play a game of “How Stupid are you ?” … this is a hammer, and that’s your hand….every time you bash your hand you will scream in agony and score a point…….50 points will get you a brand new shiny set of bandages….the first 3 people to get 50 points will also get a bonus prize of salt to place on your wounds!! …..Ready?? Go!!"

Andrew Clear.1750:

Julie Yann.5379:

Samhayn.2385:

The “fairness” of wvw comes from the simple fact every server has access to the same thing.

you can’t balance a three way fight, be it servers, factions and guilds. Mainly because you can’t make people show up and fight. Well people like to blame others for stacking, really that’s a lame excuse. You can’t blame people who enjoy wvw and fighting in wvw for moving to servers where they will always have a fight.

Don’t blame the guys who moved, blame the ones that paid them to do it and the ones that designed it.

Don’t blame anyone. It was their decision to move. Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

I don’t blame them for moving. If someone was going to pay me to move I probably would too. Apparently there is no such thing as honor or server pride anymore. Were nothing more than meat for hire. Needless to say that all the recruiting that the top 3 have done has stripped many of the lower teirs of their WvW guilds (and individual players) further increasing the disparity in server coverage between worlds. The fact that Anet doesn’t seem to give a kitten is what really bothers a lot of people. We are not looking for a perfectly fair and balanced cause that is impossible give the nature of the game. Something other than ROFL Stomp or get ROFL Stomped is what the people complaining want. Amazing challenging battles against forces that aren’t ridiculously overpower or pathetically undermanned is what we are after but Anet can’t seem to deliver.

Ricky.4706:

if wvw was expected and intended to be unbalanced, then why add a score ?
- from this perspective the best score represents the most dysfunctional and delusional groups that insist on placing value on the score.

Perhaps it was part of a psychological experiment ?

“Let’s play a game of “How Stupid are you ?” … this is a hammer, and that’s your hand….every time you bash your hand you will scream in agony and score a point…….50 points will get you a brand new shiny set of bandages….the first 3 people to get 50 points will also get a bonus prize of salt to place on your wounds!! …..Ready?? Go!!"

You add a score so that everyone can contribute, 24/7. Seriously, the game still exists when you are logged off. Do those players, the ones that are playing when you aren’t, not exist? Should they not have a say in the score, just like you do when they aren’t playing?

Again, the coverage is the issue that people complain about. You just need more of the people who play at that time, to play in WvW.

If they would’ve setup the servers like FFXI did, which had no regional servers, then the coverage issue wouldn’t be so bad. All servers would have a nice NA presence, EU presence, and SEA / Oceanic presence.

but the coverage will never be balanced, not because of the game …but primarily 2 reasons – 1 of which that anet doesn’t disclose the exact que amount – so even if everyone wanted to spread out to equal numbers – this number isn’t known – and 2nd it’s human nature to take the easiest path to the quickest win.

I do like hardcore wvw – but when i joined the top server at the time, I felt like i walked into some online marine corp wanna be program – it was really stressful and long ques – stressful in that there were constant griefers from opposing servers trying to bring down morale in chat and waste supplies – and everyone barking orders as if everyone was a stepchild and this wasn’t a game……. but there are people that enjoy that headset – and apparently more of those than people that take things for what it is …a game ….they get upset because they just want to play a normal game for fun when they have a few hours – not everyone plays like that, some people are fighting to save the world from people who only want achievements ….the irony eh ?

Andrew Clear.1750:

Ricky.4706:

if wvw was expected and intended to be unbalanced, then why add a score ?
- from this perspective the best score represents the most dysfunctional and delusional groups that insist on placing value on the score.

Perhaps it was part of a psychological experiment ?

“Let’s play a game of “How Stupid are you ?” … this is a hammer, and that’s your hand….every time you bash your hand you will scream in agony and score a point…….50 points will get you a brand new shiny set of bandages….the first 3 people to get 50 points will also get a bonus prize of salt to place on your wounds!! …..Ready?? Go!!"

You add a score so that everyone can contribute, 24/7. Seriously, the game still exists when you are logged off. Do those players, the ones that are playing when you aren’t, not exist? Should they not have a say in the score, just like you do when they aren’t playing?

Again, the coverage is the issue that people complain about. You just need more of the people who play at that time, to play in WvW.

If they would’ve setup the servers like FFXI did, which had no regional servers, then the coverage issue wouldn’t be so bad. All servers would have a nice NA presence, EU presence, and SEA / Oceanic presence.

I always hated the fact that server were divided between NA and EU and the 2 can’t mix. I’m sure a lot of EU people would W3 on an NA server and vice versa if they had the ability to go back and play PvE with their EU friends on EU servers and vice versa. Everyone could have around the clock coverage.

a realistic score for a wvw match would be – hey, me and the crew are all free this weekend….you up for a 5 hour fight saturday ? we can set up a match 100 vs 100 – highest score at the end of 5 hours wins!! then that score would matter – or multiple wvw fights based on increments – you have 30v30v30 map – 60v60v60 or 100v100v100 or x v x v x map that resets weekly or daily or set times. Then those server scores would matter because no one HAS to take on a number they can’t field. Heck, in that mode you could even make server alliance fights to have 2 or more servers team up as one color to take on larger servers. Maybe we should get rid of invidual server ranks ….and make it server colors – red vs green vs blue and servers are grouped up to share fights based on their color assignments – and it changes every month ……at the end of the year – each server is tallied for having been on the most winning color alliances.

Bah coverage and fairness
This is a business
Anet gets money out of people transferring to live the big dream of pubstomping others with no challenge.
Just dont complain tommorow if you end up wandering around for a week hoping that an enemy will flip a sentry or something.

Ricky.4706:

if wvw was expected and intended to be unbalanced, then why add a score ?
- from this perspective the best score represents the most dysfunctional and delusional groups that insist on placing value on the score.

Perhaps it was part of a psychological experiment ?

“Let’s play a game of “How Stupid are you ?” … this is a hammer, and that’s your hand….every time you bash your hand you will scream in agony and score a point…….50 points will get you a brand new shiny set of bandages….the first 3 people to get 50 points will also get a bonus prize of salt to place on your wounds!! …..Ready?? Go!!"

Its a war game, and much like war, or any fight really, its not fair.
the score is just a digital record of who beat who up more`

so if it’s a war game, we should have a united nations to keep the op servers at bay.

if like the leagues, we had color coded servers – we could fill fights by colors that include EU servers – they wouldn’t have to leave their servers to join the color coded fights – then the tides of beatdown will soon change.

but honestly, those huge fights aren’t fun – i really do enjoy the smaller fights over the bigger ones ……there are certain nuances to those fights that the bigger servers don’t have. – I don’t think they will ever understand it because some of those guilds are so big – they have no clue what it’s like to be mostly pug – heck, some of those servers forgot what it’s like to be outnumbered – let alone with the wvw ranks and skills coming into play… – completely different strategies and teamwork despite looking the same. You have 3 minutes or less to take a tower with a small team and defend it before a super zerg comes in – then jet across the map ….you think you understand what I mean…..but you don’t know what it’s like to not see anyone for a while …then suddenly being tracked…because you have soo many people …you are all over the place with big and small teams …… it’s the difference between sumo wrestling and kungkitten– sure …they are both fighting …but …. no…. I found the big servers stressful, and the small fights intense.

I don’t even know how they are getting achievements in t1 – even with our smaller groups everything just melts… before everyone can get the credit.

lol…kungkitten ?? haha!! -smh-

I’m so glad people from bandwagon or bloated population servers, people who grinded out ascended weapons the first days they were introduced for that 10% advantage, people who roam around in 5-10 man gank squads looking to pounce on solo people, PvE commanders, and so on are here to tell me that I should just buck up at the glaring flaws in WvW. After all, they don’t have a problem, so why should the rest of us complain?

WvW is assymetrical warfare. We get it. Thank you. It shouldn’t be fair. Thing is, maybe if there was a bit of fairness when you took all four maps into account, that might make things, I dunno, more fun?

Hell, I don’t particularly care about fairness, but how about a chance? In the league matchups, some servers have absolutely no chance to beat other servers for no other reason than coverage or numbers.

I get that some players get aroused at curbstomping people who essentially cannot fight back. I understand that’s why they play WvW instead of, say, PvP where there’s a relatively easy playing field or why they don’t PvE to get their jollies, because respawning mobs can’t cry.

But, really, where’s the fun in fighting a side that has absolutely no chance against the other? More importantly, where’s the point?

Grandtomatoe.2045:

The answer is probably NEVER. And it hardly ever happens if it ever even does.

Happens all the time. Tonight a big zerg bypassed a fight in progress, to let the fight continue. There are specific folks/guilds that I will not mess with when we are roaming, adversely when I meet up with those folks when I am solo they wave as they go past.

Back in the day in DAoC this stuff was common practice. You built a rep up, didnt AJ on fights and you were treated in kind. Does not happen as much in GW2 because the community is ever changing and to be blunt the quality of play is stuck on blobbing, but it does happen a lot more often then you describe.

That is not to say that you should expect it of course.

lordkrall.7241:

It is indeed a PvP game mode, but it has always been advertised as an unbalanced game mode.
That has always been said, since before release.
The fact that people don’t seem to accept that it is supposed to be unbalanced doesn’t mean that it being unbalanced is wrong.

Actually, it does mean it’s wrong. WvW is set up as a match between three servers, with objectives and points scored for accomplishing those objectives. If being unbalanced was part of the original plan, or if it was fully acceptable, there would be no point in having a score or even in having matches … and certainly not in having leagues. We’d simply join an open-ended map much like the PvP servers in other MMOs and bash heads as the opportunities presented themselves. And players organizing their own formats like fight clubs and GvG skirmishes wouldn’t have been so actively discouraged by ANet. Clearly ANet intended us to take seriously the points and win/losses, and even I don’t think they are so stupid as to intentionally design WvW such that “it was supposed to be unbalanced.” . It just worked out that way and they don’t know how to fix it.

I imagine the rage induced when our 10 people swarm a 1 v1 and destroy them. It makes me warm inside.

the only thing that makes wvw lopsided is a score. without a score – we would have to figure out something we mutually agree is worth bragging about. winning because you have the most people with the most op build and can melt a group of 20 in seconds flat – despite your skill lag …is nothing to brag about.

Now talk to me about how you managed to hold off a 60 man zerg with 40 guys when all your walls and doors were down and the lord of your keep was dead – how did you pull THAT off ..do tell.

you are not amusing t1 …no soup for you!

“to accept defeat. To learn to die is to be liberated from it. So when tomorrow comes you must free your ambitious mind and learn the art of dying!” Bruce Lee.

Agreed, we all should join T1 servers. Blow out match ups are okay.

Man, people complain too much. Just play the game and have fun. Even when I am at +90, I find a way to have fun. +500, is much harder to find a way to have fun.

Sanduskel.1850:

I enjoy looking for 1:1 fights with my 10 person groups just to ruin these fights.

Haha, you’re the guy running away when I’m alone and you have 2 mates with you. :P
Not joking here, last week 3 people ran away from me while I was alone.

Yes, I agree WvW is, and will probably always be asymmetric in how forces are matched up. I do agree that there’s not a lot that can be done about that in the nature of fairness.

However, I think it would be possible to make the scoring more fair, without changing the mechanics of combat or division of forces.

Balance suggests to me that outcomes should be adjusted proportionate to total population <i> currently on map </i>. e.g. the ratio of forces current in play on a map modifies the score.

Further, the number of people who get credit for an action adjusts a score. For example, a hard fight for a keep against an active defense should be worth more than simply running over a paper keep which is undefended with a massive force.

Defending against high odds should also be worth more, even if you lose.

Doing this, you would start to encourage smart play rather than sheer weight of numbers. The Zerg will still have its place in mass combat, but people would be encouraged to play smarter, and lower population servers would be encouraged to continue a fight rather than just fold. It would force higher population servers to work harder to maintain their point advantage rather than rely on sheer numbers of players.

Contests stop being fun if the other side refuses to come out and play. If we don’t do something like that, the current rules and WvW success payoff will continue to encourage more rather than less concentration of players on fewer servers. It becomes a raw numbers game without any particular finesse or strategy.

So I say, adjust the scoring so the underdog continues to have a reason to come out and fight, and give them something in addition for actually doing so. More points for defense might lead the way in that.

When you play against a $tacked server, it’s impossible to do much of anything in wvw. Probably if they changed the aoe cap it would clear up a bunch of problems.

WvW is made for blobs and super zergy play and it sucks that a smaller server has really no way of defending itself against a mindless t1 zerg. It’s a very discouraging aspect of WvW. Hopefully the next rvr game won’t be so shortsighted.

Grandtomatoe.2045:

When was the last time you came across somebody getting rolled by 3 of your server mates and didn’t add in on the fight to get credit for the kill?

every day

…winning by outnumbering just feels cheap.
Stop making excuses for being afraid of taking on even numbers

I play WvW to kill enemy players and capture/defend buildings.I did not sign a contract to play one way or another.If I see a 1 v 1 I will kill the enemy player unless my ally tells me to stop in chat. If you want to duel go find an out of the way place to do it.

We are all sharks in the water,if we smell blood we feed with a frenzy and do not stop to think if it is right or wrong.

ilr.9675:

Grandtomatoe.2045:

When was the last time you came across somebody getting rolled by 3 of your server mates and didn’t add in on the fight to get credit for the kill?

every day

…winning by outnumbering just feels cheap.
Stop making excuses for being afraid of taking on even numbers

I agree. I left my home server Gandara because I didn’t like winning from lower servers just cause they didn’t have the numbers. It made me sick and caused me to quit for a few months. I transferred to the lowest tier server instead, and I can’t feel anything but pride for doing so.

I guess some people have never heard of the desire (of most players, I think) for genuinely great fights. Implying something close to numerical balance. As well as GvGs, impromptu duels (honor among roamers), and fight clubs.

Keep on with the non-competitive zerging and band wagons OP. PPT, leagues, and all the flawed features of this game mode are designed for you. For the rest of us, these things are meaningless. We’ll keep farming badges and WXP and looking for good fights.

Edit: I’ll just add that even Devs agree there are problems with the PPT system.

Jayne.9251:

Actually, for the most part, EU players tend to leave two players fighting alone and run off to do other things. There have been countless times I’ve run past two players duking it out, sometimes I sit and watch, but more often I’ll just head off and leave them be. Likewise has happened to me duelling with someone else, most will leave you alone to fight it out. Must be a cultural thing.

That said, I agree, WvW isn’t meant to be fair. But half the fun is in outsmarting the enemy with fewer numbers.

Its similar in NA. There are alot of casuals who play the game though. When I move solo to an area, if I see 2-3 people just moving around I actually run past them on purpose. The casuals who aren’t good at PvP will usually react immediately and try to kill you. The good players are usually too busy doing more important things and ignore you or at most will work out what your going to do and kitten whether they need to stop you from doing it. So I know when 2-3 people come after me they are bad and I have a reasonable chance at ganking them.

Jayne.9251:

Actually, for the most part, EU players tend to leave two players fighting alone and run off to do other things. There have been countless times I’ve run past two players duking it out, sometimes I sit and watch, but more often I’ll just head off and leave them be. Likewise has happened to me duelling with someone else, most will leave you alone to fight it out. Must be a cultural thing.

That said, I agree, WvW isn’t meant to be fair. But half the fun is in outsmarting the enemy with fewer numbers.

EU is much more sportsmanlike than NA. I have been on both. People on NA are spiteful.

@ OP

Try ganking me and you get your face smashed in (figuratively speaking). So you better bring friends and/or an OP warrior spec. That’s your only chance.

The only time the gloves come off for me is: When they are in our/my borderlands. I will kill everyone there even if they are outnumbered by far.
Or when they are on “our” part of EB trying to take towers or even our keep. People running away will and getting followed by 4 or 5? No problem I will add to the kill because you deserve it.

People walking by SM and going for their zerg or helping there mates? If the numbers are even I let them even if they are winning from my team. If they are new and going up against high ranked foes I help them. But I do not like to go 5-1 or stuff like that.

People saying WvW supposed to be unbalanced are missing the point.

Yes, it is naturally unbalanced. However the more balanced it is, the more fun it is. Just look at the Colaborative Development thread – what’s one of the top items listed to work on?

Balance.

I didn’t count but it could be #1 on the list.

So wouldn’t it make sense to put in game mechanics to make the “naturally unbalanced” state more balanced?

Instead, Anet puts in mechanics that make things even more UNbalanced. And then they wonder why people are mad.

And Anet has just recently even acknolwedged that it is an issue. At least they finally did that.

Ricky.4706:

thanks for explaining guildwars 2 is a platform for bullies.

Which game is that? The one that revolves around the idea of killing (inflicting damage to) other living beings? And making things to be more effective at killing other living beings? And gathering things to make better things to be more effective at killing other living beings?

Oh, and looking gorgeous in the process. With little sneaky mind-altering cop out of resurrection.

That game, right?

So.. what was your concern again?..

well yeah, my character does look fabu!! thanks!!

Many many bunnies and racoons have died to my hands!! – My indiscriminate slayer title is maxed and then some!!

So you laugh here because this killing and damage thing is just a metaphor, a literal game. But for some reason single out “bullying” (whatever that means in a computer game, I’m not sure), and I’m assuming, trolling in general, namely the ones that are within ToC, as something really bad.

Go figure…

Grandtomatoe.2045:

When was the last time you came across somebody getting rolled by 3 of your server mates and didn’t add in on the fight to get credit for the kill?

Personally, I never contribute in such boring fights.

I don’t expect every battle to be fair; however, the servers themselves should at least be somewhat balanced in terms of numbers/coverage. Where is the fun in either winning every fight easily or losing every fight without even standing a chance? Because Anet has done very little in the name of balance thus far, a lot of match-ups in WvW are just boring and frustrating.