Guild Wars 2

Yaro.3251:

So you laugh here because this killing and damage thing is just a metaphor, a literal game. But for some reason single out “bullying” (whatever that means in a computer game, I’m not sure), and I’m assuming, trolling in general, namely the ones that are within ToC, as something really bad.

Go figure…

nice to see you place virtual characters on the same level as actual people in the game.

people have feelings, npc’s don’t. get that point ?

Yaro.3251:

Ricky.4706:

thanks for explaining guildwars 2 is a platform for bullies.

Which game is that? The one that revolves around the idea of killing (inflicting damage to) other living beings? And making things to be more effective at killing other living beings? And gathering things to make better things to be more effective at killing other living beings?

Oh, and looking gorgeous in the process. With little sneaky mind-altering cop out of resurrection.

That game, right?

So.. what was your concern again?..

Snowball mechanics. PPT is meaningless. Therefore leagues meaningless and predetermined. Bigger and bigger zerging meta encouraged. 2v1 karma training on the weakest side as legitimate strategy (for PPT even). Etc…

It can’t be ‘fair’ on everything. Open world combat will always have open ended situations. But snowballing inherent imbalances for example with mechanics that strengthen the already stronger team, is categorically bad for any PvP game or mode. There are three sides and they all want a challenge. Don’t they?

Lina.9640:

Thing is, maybe if there was a bit of fairness when you took all four maps into account, that might make things, I dunno, more fun?

It never ceases to amuse me how people attach an idea of [personal] fun to PPT. Because you are talking about PPT here, right? Ie “Winning” as a server. Last thing I’d call “fun” is drooling over numbers in some list that doesn’t even remotely reflect my personal efforts. On the other hand, even most unbalanced matchups provide enough opportunity for individual to have all kinds of fun PvP activities.

You see, the field is too narrow in this game to have consistently balanced matchups. However you shuffle and rearrange the ladder. Just nothing works, you still will have those.

1. Initial “pure” glicko-based tiers. Lead to stagnation and servers being locked in unbalanced matchups for ages
2. Mildly randomized (within certain rating range) matchups surprisingly still lead to unbalanced matchups. It’s either you (royal “You”, server) stomp or you being stomped. With occasional fair weeks.
3. Seasons. Ultimate equalizer. Everyone will get a chance to meet everyone. But look, there are still unbalanced matchups happening! Not fair, not fun!

TL:DR meh

Ricky.4706:

Yaro.3251:

So you laugh here because this killing and damage thing is just a metaphor, a literal game. But for some reason single out “bullying” (whatever that means in a computer game, I’m not sure), and I’m assuming, trolling in general, namely the ones that are within ToC, as something really bad.

Go figure…

nice to see you place virtual characters on the same level as actual people in the game.

people have feelings, npc’s don’t. get that point ?

There’s no such thing as “actual people in the game” and that’s the whole point. Everyhing that happens in the game window is a metaphor including relationships since they have meaningless grounds. That’s just pixels on the screen, and opinions about pixels on the screen. At best, opinions about someone’s else ability to manipulate those pixels. Which is, well, OK, I don’t care. Why should anyone?

Everything else like adressing real people, talking about persons sitting behind the screen, is completely irrelevant to the game itself.

Yaro.3251:

1. Initial “pure” glicko-based tiers. Lead to stagnation and servers being locked in unbalanced matchups for ages
2. Mildly randomized (within certain rating range) matchups surprisingly still lead to unbalanced matchups. It’s either you (royal “You”, server) stomp or you being stomped. With occasional fair weeks.
3. Seasons. Ultimate equalizer. Everyone will get a chance to meet everyone. But look, there are still unbalanced matchups happening! Not fair, not fun!

TL:DR meh

That’s thinking inside the box as if those are the only logical possibilities. All of these use the same flawed PPT system that encourages karma training weak objectives/servers, lack of defense, and in general lack of WvW strategy. Strategy SHOULD be fun. But it’s boring for a reason… because the system is flawed and meaningless. Stacking new features on flawed foundations lead to flawed features.

Seasons are great for match making (for Maguuma at least) but PPT is still meaningless. More than ever. There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

Zephyrus.9680:

There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

I’m sure some commanders and most of community leads would disagree with you, but for the rest – yeah. Not sure if they (“rest”) are into strategy though.

As a side note, if you need an extra incentive (other than the process itself), the activity you need it for is not fun as it is to begin with. So what’s the point then?

As a guild we usually don’t bother with groups less than 10. Unless of course they are trying to hastle us.

In which server do you play guys? Always, and i mean always, when i fight against someone (1vs1) ally come and become 3 vs 1 = Death or enemy run away in the middle of NPC or find another ally and come back to own you.

LOOL

And my server too is full of coward. I dont know if they think if they die in game die in the real life too. Yesterday a player of WvW guild in Gandara left me in a 3vs2 fight and run away. He said “I play with tactic and brain, we were outnumbered so i left” LOOOOOOOOL 3vs2 outnumbered.

The future of WvW is Zerg Vs Zerg or A lot vs A few. So player can be realised to kill.

Yaro.3251:

Zephyrus.9680:

There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

I’m sure some commanders and most of community leads would disagree with you, but for the rest – yeah. Not sure if they (“rest”) are into strategy though.

As a side note, if you need an extra incentive (other than the process itself), the activity you need it for is not fun as it is to begin with. So what’s the point then?

Ok so some people do play for PPT. And occasionally it does matter. Which reinforces the point that it should be improved/fixed.

But the point is another reason to play. There’s no such thing as a singular ‘process itself’ as you seemed to recognize in the first sentence. People play for different and multiple reasons. Even just the season achievements as we’ve all noticed is a huge incentive.

Yaro.3251:

Ricky.4706:

Yaro.3251:

So you laugh here because this killing and damage thing is just a metaphor, a literal game. But for some reason single out “bullying” (whatever that means in a computer game, I’m not sure), and I’m assuming, trolling in general, namely the ones that are within ToC, as something really bad.

Go figure…

nice to see you place virtual characters on the same level as actual people in the game.

people have feelings, npc’s don’t. get that point ?

There’s no such thing as “actual people in the game” and that’s the whole point. Everyhing that happens in the game window is a metaphor including relationships since they have meaningless grounds. That’s just pixels on the screen, and opinions about pixels on the screen. At best, opinions about someone’s else ability to manipulate those pixels. Which is, well, OK, I don’t care. Why should anyone?

Everything else like adressing real people, talking about persons sitting behind the screen, is completely irrelevant to the game itself.

Oh I dunno.

One of your guildmates actually offered to buy me coffee if I ever headed over that way. And that friendship happened via “pixels”

Sanduskel.1850:

I imagine the rage induced when our 10 people swarm a 1 v1 and destroy them. It makes me warm inside.

When I see a group of 10 people running around killing guys having 1vs1’s this is how I picture them in front of their computers.

http://youtu.be/kC4kMrZK3KQ

Surely not every 5-10 man group goes out of their way to gank and interrupt fights?
From my own experience against AM and Gandara last week, yes I often ended up being outnumbered, I’ve often seen my own Guildies ganking people and vice versa cause they just want to fight something, it happens because you can’t always expect a fair fight while roaming, and sometimes you’ll get blobbed during the process.

On the subject about population imbalances and PPT, playing for the PPT can be fun if the matchup is close- it gives everybody something to do other than zerging if they choose to do so, but with the leagues at the moment and the influx of pugs some servers have received you know what the majority will do.

Due to the coverage gaps of certain servers of course there will be servers with superior coverage that take advantage of that, as a result gain so many points from off peak but you can’t stop people playing when they can or want.

There must be a way to stop the Karma trains though, personally I’ve been one of the people leading Deso’s night crew for the past few months, even when we’ve been matched up against Gold League servers I find it more of a challenge and reward against good resistance, so I can put to use actual strategy even if we have to make use of tons of siege while being on the defensive and while outnumbered.

Golem prices on the TP are ridiculously low and NPC breakout events alone are not enough incentive to encourage people to keep fighting outnumbered especially if they’re losing badly, not every server got their wvw population boosted by the Leagues either.

It’s too much about quantity than quality in wvw, aswell as specific meta’s rather than more outside of the box thinking.

Jayne.9251:

Yaro.3251:

Ricky.4706:

Yaro.3251:

So you laugh here because this killing and damage thing is just a metaphor, a literal game. But for some reason single out “bullying” (whatever that means in a computer game, I’m not sure), and I’m assuming, trolling in general, namely the ones that are within ToC, as something really bad.

Go figure…

nice to see you place virtual characters on the same level as actual people in the game.

people have feelings, npc’s don’t. get that point ?

There’s no such thing as “actual people in the game” and that’s the whole point. Everyhing that happens in the game window is a metaphor including relationships since they have meaningless grounds. That’s just pixels on the screen, and opinions about pixels on the screen. At best, opinions about someone’s else ability to manipulate those pixels. Which is, well, OK, I don’t care. Why should anyone?

Everything else like adressing real people, talking about persons sitting behind the screen, is completely irrelevant to the game itself.

Oh I dunno.

One of your guildmates actually offered to buy me coffee if I ever headed over that way. And that friendship happened via “pixels”

No-no, I’m not saying it doesn’t ,_,

But he didn’t offer you virtual coffee, I suppose?

It’s like the book you both love and talking about it was a starting point for relationships. The fact that book is about violent medieval time and describes murders, slavery, intolerance and basically all the sins you can come up with – it is quite irrelevant to your actual relationships with actual person.

Zephyrus.9680:

Yaro.3251:

1. Initial “pure” glicko-based tiers. Lead to stagnation and servers being locked in unbalanced matchups for ages
2. Mildly randomized (within certain rating range) matchups surprisingly still lead to unbalanced matchups. It’s either you (royal “You”, server) stomp or you being stomped. With occasional fair weeks.
3. Seasons. Ultimate equalizer. Everyone will get a chance to meet everyone. But look, there are still unbalanced matchups happening! Not fair, not fun!

TL:DR meh

That’s thinking inside the box as if those are the only logical possibilities. All of these use the same flawed PPT system that encourages karma training weak objectives/servers, lack of defense, and in general lack of WvW strategy. Strategy SHOULD be fun. But it’s boring for a reason… because the system is flawed and meaningless. Stacking new features on flawed foundations lead to flawed features.

Seasons are great for match making (for Maguuma at least) but PPT is still meaningless. More than ever. There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.

“There’s no incentive to play WvW as a strategy game. And that’s a flaw.”

This …exactly, and emphatically.

That’s what open world is like. Awareness should be part of your skill. You have to know when to get in and when to get out. Valuate situation.

The problem is that this is often taken as excuse to not worry about any other kind of balancing.

“Ascended gear is no issue in wvw, it’s not supposed to be balanced”
“Yeah warriors are OP but it’s not an issue, all servers have them and wvw is not supposed to be balanced”
“Perplexity runes are OP but other people on other servers run them so it’s okey”

That’s the problem.
wvw is simply open pvp, that’s how it’s always been in every mmorpg, positioning and evaluating situations is part of it.

It is not supposed to be balanced it is pvp rofl. I think Bioware said that about their open world pvp too oh yeah they closed that down. The leagues are just another way for anet to hide the flaws in wvw (glaring obvious flaws) while flooding (some) servers wvw community with achievement hunters in an effort to make it seem like it is still relevant. Quite simply if you want open world3 faction pvp this is it so really they have no incentive to make any changes at all they just keep feeding us the bull and string us along till another game comes out with this same style and then we all leave.(Then maybe they might make the neccessary changes.) The only thing amusing about these discussions is how many people think this is fun. Maybe you like steamrolling servers with no chance of losing but I actually want a conest with even a slight element that it will not already be decided by sunday night. or Sat in some cases.

i personally find unfair are things like:

eles, necros, engis etc. can destroy any sieg on the wall regardless where you place it
any omega golem rush makes hours of upgrading keeps useless
kitten bugs and hax that ppl keep exploiting
perplexity runes being stupidly broken

etc.

never complained about 1v10 etc, it is war after all

Jayne.9251”

Actually, for the most part, EU players tend to leave two players fighting alone and run off to do other things.

Yeah and this leads often to more flaming than simply killing one of them.^^ Just happened today to me:
1. 1v1 (?) – You kill one → /w “Hey, that was a 1v1!”
2. 1v1 (?) – You walk away → /w “Thanks for no help, a**hol*!”

My opionion: If you want to do 1v1, GO SPVP (maybe that’s why it’s there)!^^

And yeah, of course are battles unfair, it’s open PvP, means: blobfest. The more you bring with you, the better are your chances of winning. It’s the way since Ultima Online. That’s why I’m always laughing ’bout people who seriously say Open PvP (in any game) has to do something with strategy or tactics and not with mass farming – maybe just for themselves to feel better or more intelligent…

illo.5106:

Jayne.9251”

Actually, for the most part, EU players tend to leave two players fighting alone and run off to do other things.

Yeah and this leads often to more flaming than simply killing one of them.^^ Just happened today to me:
1. 1v1 (?) – You kill one -> /w “Hey, that was a 1v1!”
2. 1v1 (?) – You walk away -> /w “Thanks for no help, a**hol*!”

My opionion: If you want to do 1v1, GO SPVP (maybe that’s why it’s there)!^^

And yeah, of course are battles unfair, it’s open PvP, means: blobfest. The more you bring with you, the better are your chances of winning. It’s the way since Ultima Online. That’s why I’m always laughing ’bout people who seriously say Open PvP (in any game) has to do something with strategy or tactics and not with mass farming – maybe just for themselves to feel better or more intelligent…

Lol, yeah it’s why if I’m uncertain I always ask in /say. The person needing the help somehow finds the time to type YES!

I only like 1v1 or 1v2/3s as a means to educate myself about my class and improve. Then I’m way more efficient in big open field battles.