Guild Wars 2

Fixing forum bug*

^ Sich u sound like you are from T1 or T2 don’t worry all the servers up there care way too much about PPT and are very organized. Doesn’t sound like it will make any difference in your situation.

I do get your point however but I thought about it too and realized it doesn’t make much difference. Except on lower tiers where they don’t have as many people or as many players who care about PPT and upgrading structures. In lower tiers it will make Ktraining much more difficult because it is a lot harder to take upgraded structures with less players.

My server is on T3…. With low population at off peak time. Piken Square to be more precise.

Ok well i can see your point about auto upgrades during off peak hours. But that wasn’t at all what you were talking about. You were saying that coordinated servers should have an advantage over less coordinated ones. And servers that don’t care about sitting in towers on ACes all day should be penalized. basically.

This to me sounds fair however the more coordinated server should be better anyways?

TJgalon.5012:

how long will it take without human intervention though. keeping the yak away and one of two other colors can take the building them self. this might force a new way of playing, but new does not mean bad, it means you adapt, you fight back, and you keep going, and above all else, have fun.

It take what, 30ish dollys to upgrade a tower to full T3 (2000+ supps)? Each dolly can reduce the timer 5 minutes, which means you get a 2.5 hours reduction max. The example with T1 reduced the timer in half, so an assumption would be that it will take at least 5 hours to upgrade a tower passivly T3. A keep take 3x supps so would take 15+ hours to complete T3 passivly, which you can cut to maybe 7 hours.

/random math thats probably woefully innacurate, pulling supply counts from admittedly poor memory

This new upgrade is for casual gaming.
Defending Yak is to difficult, then make the yak not needed to upgrade.
Upgrading in the right order is to complicated ? Then make only 3 upgrades without any choice.
No one want to care about upgrading ? Just auto start the upgrade.
People can’t handle to start the upgrade at the good time to always have some supply in the keep ? Just don’t use supply to upgrade at all….

It’s that the problem…. Casual gaming… Make the game always easier for people who don’t want to learn a little the game mechanics.

To dumb down the game i think is bad, to make it easier and remove chose from Buildings, like sometime you want WP sometime you want Wall/gate first, camp you sometime want extra guards (doly guards) and sometime 2x supply, soon they will have so building build siege and use the siege too as this is pointing.

It goes totally the wrong way from what I want were you only get server points from active playing.

Are camps automatically upgrading too? Does this mean I can no longer run in front of an enemy zerg to start an upgrade and drain a camp in order to starve their supply? RIP strategy in this game…

yep, same thing for supply camp…. Then this will probably not work anymore.

Dawdler.8521:

It take what, 30ish dollys to upgrade a tower to full T3 (2000+ supps)?

1.6 gold and 3,325 supply (47.5 fat yaks) for a full tower upgrade, not counting building a supply reserve for repairs and siege building. Currently I think it’s something like eight minutes between yaks, so it takes over six hours for a northern tower that has only one camp providing supply. (That’s assuming you keep control of the north camp and keep it fat.)

WTB: Camp upgrade option “Stampede”. Five fat yaks set out as a group with a 33% speed boost, mowing down everything in their path.

It does seem like Anet throwing out the baby with the bathwater on this.. just like how they got rid of Orbs/Relics simply because hackers were breaking the mechanic.

Passive upgrade system removes the importance for half the objectives in WvW.

Having 2 supply caches might be a good idea, but can also cause it’s own confusion(one players can access for siege, the other for core upgrades).

I like the idea of having an event for the upgrade that says something along the lines of…
An event that the keep has, that it needs 20 dolyaks to enter to upgrade. And you see a little bar showing “number of dolyaks that made it in, and the number needed for the upgrade to finish”. (view attached image).

This simple change allows players to know exactly what they have to do, to get the upgrade going.. They need to defend the dolyaks.

And while yes dolyaks will have to passively make their way to the keep, and yes they don’t need to be escorted.. its still a system that allows the opposing faction to choke resources from the keep in the siege. It still promotes and creates a mechanic for players to LEAVE the keep to ACTIVELY DEFEND important objectives.

And with the new sentry buffs for dolyak speed, you will have players HELPING the dolyaks reach the keep more so then ever before.

The keep/towers would still get supply from the yak for building defense (repair) and such.

An easier solution, without ruining the entire strategic value of the supply camp, and the dolyak.

I would then go take a different structure. there are 4 wvw map atm, maybe 5 when we get that new map, and so there are plenty of tagets to choose from, and plenty to do. I would take the camps then, or the sentry too, since they help slow down the yaks also, and we can get a counter set with the catapaults, or something, they do get good distance. Stared of thier supplies they can’t resistance long, and on top of that, more play may show up. Losing is not having fun, at least for me, but not trying, that not fun, lol. We still don’t know how this new system will be, it will require forgetting some old rules most likely, learning new ones, but that not going to change the fun of taking the places away from the other 2 armies. I can’t pretend to fully understand this, heck i don’t fully understand the old system, but i will continue to learn.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Are camps automatically upgrading too? Does this mean I can no longer run in front of an enemy zerg to start an upgrade and drain a camp in order to starve their supply? RIP strategy in this game…

Exactly this will happen. We lose a tactical element to slow down zergs.

then what about using the traps for starving supplies or the upgrade to one of the weapon i read when t remove supplies?

TJgalon.5012:

then what about using the traps for starving supplies or the upgrade to one of the weapon i read when t remove supplies?

Doesn’t help when you have a zerg running around on your bl flipping camps to build golems. More options>less options

Not really on topic but somewhat related:

Why are dev’s responding to threads on the GW2 reddit about this and not their official forums?

Says a lot.

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

then what about using the traps for starving supplies or the upgrade to one of the weapon i read when t remove supplies?

Doesn’t help when you have a zerg running around on your bl flipping camps to build golems. More options>less options

As i said, I do not know wvw 100% like some of you might, but if they want to waste thier supplies building one golem that the camp offer, what to stop the enemy team from destorying that before they can build it, or get it to the target, or other things?

TJgalon.5012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

then what about using the traps for starving supplies or the upgrade to one of the weapon i read when t remove supplies?

Doesn’t help when you have a zerg running around on your bl flipping camps to build golems. More options>less options

As i said, I do not know wvw 100% like some of you might, but if they want to waste thier supplies building one golem that the camp offer, what to stop the enemy team from destorying that before they can build it, or get it to the target, or other things?

Not all of us run around in packs of 30+. Draining camps ahead of an enemy zerg is something that roamers and havockers like to do. You aren’t going to stack your 1-5 man group and push a 40 man zerg.

For the record I do use supply traps, I probably went through about 25 this week while harassing enemy zergs. If I’m in a tower or keep that is about to be lost and can’t be drained through upgrades I will build as much kmart siege in the supply depot as I can before the door breaks.

Yes these options will still exist but why remove the ability to affect camps when they could just as easily make it so you manually start camp upgrades but without the gold cost?

When I first read about Guild Wars 2, it was almost a dream for a tactic and strategy enthusiast: “Even a single roamer can play very important role for his server if he breaks enemy supply line to prevent enemy tower from upgrading. There is a logistic strategy part in the game”.

New “WvW improvement” patch: camp->tower/keep supply line don’t play role into upgrading objectives anymore, they will upgrade automatically over time no matter if a supply line exist or not, it will just take more time.

<irony> Am I understanding it correctly that you are ripping an important strategy aspect from the game strategy mode(=World vs World)? That’s exactly what WvW-oriented playerbase is crying over 2 years, great job ANET! Keep up the good work! </irony>

TL;DR:
upgrades cost 0 gold – good idea
upgrades cost 0 supply – more or less “not good” idea
automatic upgrades – bad idea
upgrades will continue (and will finish) no matter if supply line from camp exist at all – terrible idea

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

I don’t think this is bad, it’s just different. We move from a ppt zerg fest into a holding-centric meta.

Solution thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/The-PERFECT-simple-solution-to-Auto-Upgrade/first#post5090756

TJgalon.5012:

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

How long have you been playing WvW exactly?

(3rd-Party Program) Clock-Wars:

• “No, we don’t have time to flip it before it upgrades, we’ll go somewhere else.”
• “No, we won’t come defend, its 15 minutes away from an upgrade, just abandon it.”
• “No, don’t flip this yet, they will be able to flip it back before the tic.”
• “We only have 5 minutes to flip this before it upgrades, pvdoor hard!”
• “Why does the enemy always have our borderland fully fortified at 6 in the morning?”

misterdevious.6482:

(3rd-Party Program) Clock-Wars:

• “No, we don’t have time to flip it before it upgrades, we’ll go somewhere else.”
• “No, we won’t come defend, its 15 minutes away from an upgrade, just abandon it.”
• “No, don’t flip this yet, they will be able to flip it back before the tic.”
• “We only have 5 minutes to flip this before it upgrades, pvdoor hard!”
• “Why does the enemy always have our borderland fully fortified at 6 in the morning?”

exactly this will happen. reminds me of the dragon timer event stuff for pve… =_=

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

How long have you been playing WvW exactly?

only at rank 112, so like 3ish month. I started in the edge of the mist, and then moved to the normal one, cause I found it to be more fun. More so, when there different things my partner and I can do on our own, and sometimes when we find a group to join. I know I am not the best player, but I do try to keep the camps my color and we take the time for the sentry too, and this new system kinda works for our strength, of keep the supplies lines open, while other take the keeps and towers and such. Who knows how we might have to change, but I feel this system is a nice step going forward, it bringing a new spark to the wvw, and with the 4 maps, keeping everyone busy too, might be a interesting shift and change, and time will tell.

On paper atm this idea may not appeal to lot of you but take a step back and try to see the good of it too, and even if it still does not appeal to you, that fine, but let all not try to act like this is the end either.

Today’s Ready Up was a joke, 5 mins to read blog post?

Why reveal something you’re not ready to talk about? Should of just called this ‘Dragonhunter Reveal 2’

Beginning to think Anet doesn’t take WvW seriously.

Whenever someone uses the phrase “slap in the face”, I always wonder when the last time was that someone gave them a good slap across the face. Because almost inevitably, they need another one.

5 minutes?

The stream started at Noon.
They talked about WvW stuff until about 24 past and the whole thing ended about now (35 past).
That sounds like the majority of it was actually about the WvW stuff.

We also got quiet a bit of new information that was not covered in the blog.

Well they did tell us that you automatically get a wp in your own keeps and you can’t wp an enemies… So basically RIP strategy and keep the karma train rolling, eotm 2.0 sounds so new and exciting!

Softspoken.2410:

Whenever someone uses the phrase “slap in the face”, I always wonder when the last time was that someone gave them a good slap across the face. Because almost inevitably, they need another one.

lol this may or may not be true, what is certain though is that what you just said was pretty funny

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well they did tell us that you automatically get a wp in your own keeps and you can’t wp an enemies… So basically RIP strategy and keep the karma train rolling, eotm 2.0 sounds so new and exciting!

How is it fun to just get a WP close to the enemy spawn and just stand around there stopping them from even going out?

TJgalon.5012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

How long have you been playing WvW exactly?

only at rank 112, so like 3ish month. I started in the edge of the mist, and then moved to the normal one, cause I found it to be more fun. More so, when there different things my partner and I can do on our own, and sometimes when we find a group to join. I know I am not the best player, but I do try to keep the camps my color and we take the time for the sentry too, and this new system kinda works for our strength, of keep the supplies lines open, while other take the keeps and towers and such. Who knows how we might have to change, but I feel this system is a nice step going forward, it bringing a new spark to the wvw, and with the 4 maps, keeping everyone busy too, might be a interesting shift and change, and time will tell.

On paper atm this idea may not appeal to lot of you but take a step back and try to see the good of it too, and even if it still does not appeal to you, that fine, but let all not try to act like this is the end either.

You haven’t had any real experience with the current system, that’s why you can’t tell how bad this change is. People have been proposing better systems since the games release, anet instead decided to implement a lazy poorly thought out idea that promotes passive play and k-trains.

lordkrall.7241:

5 minutes?

The stream started at Noon.
They talked about WvW stuff until about 24 past and the whole thing ended about now (35 past).
That sounds like the majority of it was actually about the WvW stuff.

We also got quiet a bit of new information that was not covered in the blog.

let me rephrase that, why’d they spend 20mins reading something we could’ve read in 5mins?

The only new information I gathered was the actual times of upgrades, and what was in each tier. And Waypoint changes.

What else did they talk about that wasn’t in the blog post? Why they were changing ability point distribution? Why they changed it to the auto-upgrade system? Wasn’t that covered in the blog post?

They didn’t have anything to reveal, no demonstrations of any of the WvW changes. How is that different from reading it on a blog post? If they weren’t ready to reveal any of these changes, why stream it?

The only content they demonstrated was Dragonhunter play, this was a Dragonhunter reveal 2.0

The new stuff they discussed were the changes to waypoints and the specific upgrade timers. Those were not covered by the blogs.

Here are some notes I took: http://dulfy.net/2015/05/22/gw2-wvw-automatic-upgrades-and-changes-livestream-notes/

Ready Up and Point of Interest have never been about revealing a bunch of new information though. It have always been about giving a bit more in depth information about the blogs that we have had earlier that week. So I really don’t see why it is a slap in the face when it is more or less the same as it have always been. (Or in fact, even more than it usually is, due to us getting quite a bit of new info).

You forgot they showed that gates will get fortify?

But yeah it looks like karma train

Hule.8794:

You forgot they showed that gates will get fortify?

But yeah it looks like karma train

I do not know the wp update seems to be a nice hard counter to krama trains.

lordkrall.7241:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well they did tell us that you automatically get a wp in your own keeps and you can’t wp an enemies… So basically RIP strategy and keep the karma train rolling, eotm 2.0 sounds so new and exciting!

How is it fun to just get a WP close to the enemy spawn and just stand around there stopping them from even going out?

lordkrall.7241:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Well they did tell us that you automatically get a wp in your own keeps and you can’t wp an enemies… So basically RIP strategy and keep the karma train rolling, eotm 2.0 sounds so new and exciting!

How is it fun to just get a WP close to the enemy spawn and just stand around there stopping them from even going out?

It’s a lot of fun when you are on similar sized servers and you spend the day constantly fighting over an enemy keep ( I usually do this in a BL) and getting supply into it while they do everything they can to gt it back. It leads to endless fights where we are normally outnumbered but have the keep’s walls to do hit and run attacks from.

But you are missing the bigger issue. When you are fighting a server that is near equal or stronger than you, busting their WP is extremely important to gain a tactical advantage on a map. This is the reason WP’s have always been T3 upgrades.

What is the point in spending hours trying to starve a keep of supply and making coordinated efforts to bust WP’s if they can immediately get them back? People are just going to avoid them and K-Train the easy structures.

dulfy.1493:

The new stuff they discussed were the changes to waypoints and the specific upgrade timers.

Did you miss changing the values or is it really going to be the same timers on towers, keeps and SM? O.o

Now I cant even try to see an advantage anymore. Because that’s just kittened. It means that unmolested keeps and SM is going to upgrade twice as fast as towers due to multiple dolly sources, when it should be the complete opposite.

Dawdler.8521:

dulfy.1493:

The new stuff they discussed were the changes to waypoints and the specific upgrade timers.

Did you miss changing the values or is it really going to be the same timers on towers, keeps and SM? O.o

Now I cant even try to see an advantage anymore. Because that’s just kittened. It means that unmolested keeps and SM is going to upgrade twice as fast as towers due to multiple dolly sources, when it should be the complete opposite.

Please don’t expect logic from a game that makes you move slower when you are being attacked. But you make a good point.

Jim Hunter.6821:

What is the point in spending hours trying to starve a keep of supply and making coordinated efforts to bust WP’s if they can immediately get them back? People are just going to avoid them and K-Train the easy structures.

Keeps are worth a lot of points. Feel free not to attack them and just let the other server have the points for them.. Oh wait nobody plays the PPT game anyways..

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

How long have you been playing WvW exactly?

only at rank 112, so like 3ish month. I started in the edge of the mist, and then moved to the normal one, cause I found it to be more fun. More so, when there different things my partner and I can do on our own, and sometimes when we find a group to join. I know I am not the best player, but I do try to keep the camps my color and we take the time for the sentry too, and this new system kinda works for our strength, of keep the supplies lines open, while other take the keeps and towers and such. Who knows how we might have to change, but I feel this system is a nice step going forward, it bringing a new spark to the wvw, and with the 4 maps, keeping everyone busy too, might be a interesting shift and change, and time will tell.

On paper atm this idea may not appeal to lot of you but take a step back and try to see the good of it too, and even if it still does not appeal to you, that fine, but let all not try to act like this is the end either.

You haven’t had any real experience with the current system, that’s why you can’t tell how bad this change is. People have been proposing better systems since the games release, anet instead decided to implement a lazy poorly thought out idea that promotes passive play and k-trains.

seem less passive as the old system allowed turtling, now you have to be active or let keeps get upgraded by the enemy.

The real issue here is that this change will destroy servers with poor off-hours coverage.
Previously servers with poor off-hours coverage would lose all their t3 structures during the night, but at least they would be paper in the morning since no one on the enemy server would bother to pay for upgrades.
Now, all those structures will upgrade automatically, meaning a losing server will log into wvw and all their structures will be tier 3 enemy controlled.
This change will only aggravate the population imbalance problem to the point that it will break wvw for some servers.

TJgalon.5012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TJgalon.5012:

It still there, you have to adapt to the change, as with any strategy, and find the weakness and the strength for you and your team and for the enemy.

How long have you been playing WvW exactly?

only at rank 112, so like 3ish month. I started in the edge of the mist, and then moved to the normal one, cause I found it to be more fun. More so, when there different things my partner and I can do on our own, and sometimes when we find a group to join. I know I am not the best player, but I do try to keep the camps my color and we take the time for the sentry too, and this new system kinda works for our strength, of keep the supplies lines open, while other take the keeps and towers and such. Who knows how we might have to change, but I feel this system is a nice step going forward, it bringing a new spark to the wvw, and with the 4 maps, keeping everyone busy too, might be a interesting shift and change, and time will tell.

On paper atm this idea may not appeal to lot of you but take a step back and try to see the good of it too, and even if it still does not appeal to you, that fine, but let all not try to act like this is the end either.

You haven’t had any real experience with the current system, that’s why you can’t tell how bad this change is. People have been proposing better systems since the games release, anet instead decided to implement a lazy poorly thought out idea that promotes passive play and k-trains.

seem less passive as the old system allowed turtling, now you have to be active or let keeps get upgraded by the enemy.

No… Now the only way to stop upgrades is to flip something. Which is easier with a bigger group. They are making roaming and havocking pointless because even if you keep the camps flipped and stop every single yak from getting into a structure it will still upgrade.

Every bit of supply that makes it into the tower and keep can now be used for building siege because it’s not being used for upgrades. That makes turtling even easier and is way more passive than the current system.

Quick Mouse.7635:

The real issue here is that this change will destroy servers with poor off-hours coverage.
Previously servers with poor off-hours coverage would lose all their t3 structures during the night, but at least they would be paper in the morning since no one on the enemy server would bother to pay for upgrades.
Now, all those structures will upgrade automatically, meaning a losing server will log into wvw and all their structures will be tier 3 enemy controlled.
This change will only aggravate the population imbalance problem to the point that it will break wvw for some servers.

This. This right here.

Hexalot.8194:

Quick Mouse.7635:

The real issue here is that this change will destroy servers with poor off-hours coverage.
Previously servers with poor off-hours coverage would lose all their t3 structures during the night, but at least they would be paper in the morning since no one on the enemy server would bother to pay for upgrades.
Now, all those structures will upgrade automatically, meaning a losing server will log into wvw and all their structures will be tier 3 enemy controlled.
This change will only aggravate the population imbalance problem to the point that it will break wvw for some servers.

This. This right here.

This. This right here. Already happens in WvW. You are lucky if you only wake up to paper stuff. Lost count on how many times I’ve logged in only to see everything upgraded by another server.

Hexalot.8194:

Quick Mouse.7635:

The real issue here is that this change will destroy servers with poor off-hours coverage.
Previously servers with poor off-hours coverage would lose all their t3 structures during the night, but at least they would be paper in the morning since no one on the enemy server would bother to pay for upgrades.
Now, all those structures will upgrade automatically, meaning a losing server will log into wvw and all their structures will be tier 3 enemy controlled.
This change will only aggravate the population imbalance problem to the point that it will break wvw for some servers.

This. This right here.

Agreed 100%. As things stand, the enemy must make a commitment of time and gold to upgrade a structure even if they are unopposed on the map. They might do it for one or two structures, but aren’t going to blanket the map with upgrades. With the new system they merely need to paint the map their color and then go elsewhere, knowing that their control of the map will be almost total within hours, even if some insomniac defender shows up and flips a camp. They will have waypoints into the heartland of the server that was already in a worse position, and they won’t even have to work for them.

Meanwhile, I can easily see the “clock wars” attitude becoming prevalent. Why bother to defend something in which you have no investment of time, effort, and money? Let it flip, then flip it back. Watch the tick. Me, if I spend 45 silver to fully upgrade a camp because I need it for the upgrade of a tower on which I’m spending 1.6g and several hours and a bunch of siege, you’d better believe I’m going to be watching both like a hawk.

briggah.7910:

Hexalot.8194:

Quick Mouse.7635:

The real issue here is that this change will destroy servers with poor off-hours coverage.
Previously servers with poor off-hours coverage would lose all their t3 structures during the night, but at least they would be paper in the morning since no one on the enemy server would bother to pay for upgrades.
Now, all those structures will upgrade automatically, meaning a losing server will log into wvw and all their structures will be tier 3 enemy controlled.
This change will only aggravate the population imbalance problem to the point that it will break wvw for some servers.

This. This right here.

This. This right here. Already happens in WvW. You are lucky if you only wake up to paper stuff. Lost count on how many times I’ve logged in only to see everything upgraded by another server.

Really… so a night cap crew in the more desolated servers who know they are going to be unopposed for virtually the whole night, is gonna waste time and GOLD upgrading stuff even though they know there is going to be no one around to flip it until their shift is done ?

Sorry not buying it.

Another Problem i see is that you cant drain a camp anymore in 1 second with an upgrade. As a homeland defender its sometimes the only way to defend urself against a big blob when outnumbered, so you get a bit more time to organize a proper defense.

Thats one of the rare tactical moves that can really help you out when outnumbered at the moment, so it really bothers me that you wont be able to do that anymore.