WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

They already stated they HOTperformed miserably and they greatly LOST numbers from WvW due to Hot, not gained them. They posted this INFO on these forums months ago.

If you are going to make such a bold claim at least bother to provide a source, either way… people that are no longer here do not matter, why would ArenaNet at this point have any reason to cater to people who have already left their game.

As for Alpine borderlands coming back, that was always the plan eventually, as much was said during HoT announcement at PAX.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: JackDaniels.1697

JackDaniels.1697

Where is the option to delete the boring Alpine map?! kitten Anet you fail again.

“I got a fever! And the only prescription, is more COWBELL!”

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: ThomasC.1056

ThomasC.1056

Actually they DID advertise it as " Large scale PvP" and stated that was what the players asked for and was giving us when they discussed the results of the surveys they used to create this game. They specifically told us the players asked for large scale PvP, that they heard us and they were giving it to us. So YES, they not only advertises it as large scale PvP, they outright told us that is what they were giving us and why many bought the game.
Raiding castles is still nonstop PvP if implemented properly. Players fighting other players over objectives = WvW. " nonstop PvP action" should be players fighting other players nonstop over objectives. I am not sure what you are understanding that to be.

PvD undefended structures on the other hand has no place in a PvP game mode, nor should it be rewarded.

I was there in the beginning too… Yet, many things changed since then in WvW, PvP and PvE, so it feels more relevant to look at what they advertise now, instead of sticking to what they used to advertise, even if I understand the disappointement.

As much as I understand their official site, the main focus of WvW seem to be taking on and holding objectives (and thus, PPT). And in the process, you may encounter opponents, thus have PvP. Not necessarily in a big scale, by the way.
If no player defends an objective, then you can take it on your own, just by opening it, and fighting the NPCs. That’s more or less impossible to avoid in a 1 week persistent map. It’s hard to have a sufficient amount of players any time, everywhere.

There’s here a slight difference with using objectives as an excuse to do (I exaggerate on purpose) blob vs. blob (what many ppl understand as “large scale PvP”) in the middle of a field, with no interest in camps, keeps or towers. And there’s such a biais currently in WvW, as I stated in another post, where I related 2 comms blob vs blobbing in the field amongst green objectives (we play red) and not caring about our red towers and camps being taken over. We were players who took those objectives, and raised them to T1, and we were disgusted.

In a nutshell, and from what I understand from updates and official site, ANet expects players to focus on objectives, ways to take them, upgrade them, get benefit from them, and hold them ; and have large scale PvP at various stages of the process.They do not expect players to focus on looking for a big crowd to fight in some kind of large scale courtyard ; and not care much about objectives which would be mere “PvE gimmicks”.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

They already stated they HOTperformed miserably and they greatly LOST numbers from WvW due to Hot, not gained them. They posted this INFO on these forums months ago.

If you are going to make such a bold claim at least bother to provide a source, either way… people that are no longer here do not matter, why would ArenaNet at this point have any reason to cater to people who have already left their game.

Those players JUST CAME BACK due to Alpine, many have been posting on here thanking them for the changes and telling them they are back for that reason.. Read these forums and you would know that. The worst mistake a game would make is ignoring why players leave their game rather than focus on changes to the game to keep them and make the players come back. Players WILL come back if you are doing it right. Of course those players matter, why would they not matter when it was the companies misstates that drove off their business?

Not any " bold statements" here, just what has happened here over the months leading up until now. Reading the forums you will see what everyone else already read here. Due to the poor performance of HoT, they changed their stance on the expansion ETA..

You are welcome to dig through the forums to get caught up on your homework, I am not going to do that for you. :p

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
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(edited by lil devils x.6071)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Actually they DID advertise it as " Large scale PvP" and stated that was what the players asked for and was giving us when they discussed the results of the surveys they used to create this game. They specifically told us the players asked for large scale PvP, that they heard us and they were giving it to us. So YES, they not only advertises it as large scale PvP, they outright told us that is what they were giving us and why many bought the game.
Raiding castles is still nonstop PvP if implemented properly. Players fighting other players over objectives = WvW. " nonstop PvP action" should be players fighting other players nonstop over objectives. I am not sure what you are understanding that to be.

PvD undefended structures on the other hand has no place in a PvP game mode, nor should it be rewarded.

I was there in the beginning too… Yet, many things changed since then in WvW, PvP and PvE, so it feels more relevant to look at what they advertise now, instead of sticking to what they used to advertise, even if I understand the disappointement.

As much as I understand their official site, the main focus of WvW seem to be taking on and holding objectives (and thus, PPT). And in the process, you may encounter opponents, thus have PvP. Not necessarily in a big scale, by the way.
If no player defends an objective, then you can take it on your own, just by opening it, and fighting the NPCs. That’s more or less impossible to avoid in a 1 week persistent map. It’s hard to have a sufficient amount of players any time, everywhere.

There’s here a slight difference with using objectives as an excuse to do (I exaggerate on purpose) blob vs. blob (what many ppl understand as “large scale PvP”) in the middle of a field, with no interest in camps, keeps or towers. And there’s such a biais currently in WvW, as I stated in another post, where I related 2 comms blob vs blobbing in the field amongst green objectives (we play red) and not caring about our red towers and camps being taken over. We were players who took those objectives, and raised them to T1, and we were disgusted.

In a nutshell, and from what I understand from updates and official site, ANet expects players to focus on objectives, ways to take them, upgrade them, get benefit from them, and hold them ; and have large scale PvP at various stages of the process.They do not expect players to focus on looking for a big crowd to fight in some kind of large scale courtyard ; and not care much about objectives which would be mere “PvE gimmicks”.

Since you have been here as well, you would know that the reason players moved to the field and stopped messing with the objectives and caring about the score was due to the Arrow cart damage increase on players and the rewarding of PvD. Winning became an embarrassment, not something players were proud of. Players started out in the objectives and caring about the score, but due to Anets decisions, they changed that. Anet has to change the way they treat WvW for players to care again.

They moved away from the arrow carts, and if they want players to return to the objectives they need to change siege vs player and the way it is rewarded. The focus should be on players fighting other players over objectives and to get it to return to that they need to make necessary changes to correct the problems otherwise it will never change and only go downhill from there long term. Currently die fast, go back and PVD undefended structure have your zerge jump on siege inside objectives and not fight = WIN. That has to change if they want players to care about winning again.

There are multiple ways to accomplish that easily. One, for example, would be to use the objectives to just “BUFF” the fights, not score on it’s own. Instead the objective gives players the most loot and PPK while fighting over it instead. That way the objective is actually MORE valuable than it is currently, but doesn’t actually do score points on it’s own without players doing something to earn it. If you only score points and get loot while fighting other players over yaks, towers, sentries, camps, keeps then the objectives actually matter, it is not an embarrassment to win, and players are willing to fight over them as they should have been all along. Players fighting in the fields and not caring about the score or objectives is due to the game being broken and needing to be fixed, not because they players are actually doing something wrong. Fix the game and players will play it and enjoy it that way.

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(edited by lil devils x.6071)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

and a lot of other things beside abl that brought them back like stability. You may as well let LilDev keep ranting – cant be reasoned with on this subject.

Truer words have never been spoken.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

If you are going to make such a bold claim at least bother to provide a source

Not any " bold statements" here, just what has happened here over the months leading up until now. Reading the forums you will see what everyone else already read here. Due to the poor performance of HoT, they changed their stance on the expansion ETA..

You are welcome to dig through the forums to get caught up on your homework, I am not going to do that for you. :p

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

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(edited by Teon.5168)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

Anet, add some WvW achievements related to the desert borderland already.

#24 leaderboard rank North America.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Anet, add some WvW achievements related to the desert borderland already.

Intriguing. What sort of WvW achievments do you have in mind for dbl? I’m truly curious.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

I would be willing to bet that this poll is going to be a two parter. I have my doubts that the top vote getter will reach their target 75%. After it ends, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the top two vote getters placed in their own poll, to determine the winner.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

Anet, add some WvW achievements related to the desert borderland already.

Intriguing. What sort of WvW achievments do you have in mind for dbl? I’m truly curious.

Fall off a cliff 1000x, 5mins easy

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I voted yes to get us closer to having all unique wvw maps.

When dbl comes back I sincerely hope you (devs) hollow out a lot of that map and make is more horizontal.

Edit- and devs, if you know EB is the most popular map by far for players, that’s a great indication of what each map should be modeled after and “feel” like.

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(edited by Swagger.1459)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Soren.9316

Soren.9316

Anet, add some WvW achievements related to the desert borderland already.

Intriguing. What sort of WvW achievments do you have in mind for dbl? I’m truly curious.

Fall off a cliff 1000x, 5mins easy

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

Having 2 teams on a different map than the third is obviously imbalanced, especially considering the playable area differences between the maps. This is rather ridiculous as an option. Thus, I’ve voted for rotation of all teams to the same map: “No”.

That being said, I’d think that a better way of fitting both maps into play would be to increase the total number of maps available in WvW (not including Edge of the Mists or Sanctum) from 4 to 7. This would give each team both an alpine and a desert map to defend. Obviously, this would split the population somewhat, due to Alpine preference; but, it would also reduce queuing on large servers. I’m kind of amazed that this isn’t offered as an option.

If PvP players were asked to accept having 1/3 of all players in a match move slower, I’m sure they would have a bit of a fit. This is effectively what this WvW poll is asking WvW players to accept. I don’t think they’ll happily accept that.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Yea.. No. Surely if you had read the forums for months and watched the boycott and why they brought Alpine back unfold, you would have to have amnesia to have missed it.. I am not going to go drag the numerous threads and posts about it all back from months back, but I will leave this tiny bit here referencing the discussion since this was just on the forums a little over 2 weeks ago:

The performance of HoT was not as expected. We have taken that as a lesson. A second expansion is in work and will be released as soon as possible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4j3ntv/ncsofts_earnings_report_1q16_strong_performance/

Of course if you have read the forums as you suggested, you would know that already though right?

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

That being said, I’d think that a better way of fitting both maps into play would be to increase the total number of maps available in WvW (not including Edge of the Mists or Sanctum) from 4 to 7. This would give each team both an alpine and a desert map to defend. Obviously, this would split the population somewhat, due to Alpine preference; but, it would also reduce queuing on large servers. I’m kind of amazed that this isn’t offered as an option.

Mmm because of this.

I have seen a few posts inquiring if we could rotate between Alpine and Desert Borderlands faster than quarterly and I just wanted to clarify on why we currently proposed doing it quarterly. When we rotate maps we have to wipe score, objective status, and various other things to give us a clean startup when we swap maps. We also have to swap maps on Tuesdays because it requires a build (and currently production revolves around Tuesday releases and it isn’t reasonable to change the game-wide release schedule). Since rotating the maps currently involves disrupting the active match, the more often we rotate the maps, the more matches we end up disrupting. This manual map rotation is both time consuming for developers and disruptive for players. Assuming the community votes to keep the borderlands map rotation strategy, we’ll want to eventually automate this process, in a non-disruptive way, but before we would start that work, we’d need the community to prioritize that project over other WvW needs.

While it doesn’t directly say there can’t be more than 4 maps, there are infrastructure changes that take a lot of time to enable it. Example of infrastructure that you can see: WvW related portals in Lions Arch, and the tabs in WvW panel.

Basically in analogy: right now the foundation wont allow more then 4 buildings to be made on top of, furthermore constructions takes quite a bit of time to renovate/change said buildings.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?
If you make it worth my time I may consider retrieving it for you.

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

The performance of HoT was not as expected. We have taken that as a lesson. A second expansion is in work and will be released as soon as possible.

They already stated they HOTperformed miserably and they greatly LOST numbers from WvW due to Hot, not gained them. They posted this INFO on these forums months ago.

So how, exactly, do you arrive at your bottom quote’s assumption, from the fairly benign post from Anet, above?

I stand by what I originally said about you projecting your own biases on something Anet posted that is far from what you claim was posted.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?
If you make it worth my time I may consider retrieving it for you.

You already did retrieve it, and I am getting a very good chuckle at your biased assumptions and misinterpretations becoming something that “Anet actually posted”

If nothing else, you’re certainly entertaining.

Forum discussions -
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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?
If you make it worth my time I may consider retrieving it for you.

I don’t know how else to put this. I don’t know if this is even “re-portable,” but please stop derailing the original topic. It is very annoying to have to go through 2-3 pages of posts to see the same 3 or so people make unrelated responses to one another. Take it elsewhere, or don’t reply at all.

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?
If you make it worth my time I may consider retrieving it for you.

You already did retrieve it, and I am getting a very good chuckle at your biased assumptions and misinterpretations becoming something that “Anet actually posted”

If nothing else, you’re certainly entertaining.

No, I have not retrieved it that was just their quarterly report they posted a couple of weeks ago.. Not all the other data that was posted over the last 6 months… That is a pain to go and get again. Keep talking though, it makes you look brilliant to everyone here that already read this stuff. Day late and a dollar short to the wrong show.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

what xtd said – NO != no DBL….

IMHO, this poll was worded much better than previous polls. The results pie chart doesn’t differentiate the 2 yes votes however….

A NO vote actually means you will have 3 months of DBL when it comes around where as the YES vote means ABL and DBL are up with differing mixes of how many of each.

The base poll remains, all of one type of borderland with a rotation or both types are always up, hence why there are two YES options.

That is assuming they let WvW maps population decline for 3 months again. They very well may realize that is bad after the fact and change their minds. They have been doing that quite a bit lately.
With 2 alpine 1 DBL, you still have the issue of:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother.

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WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Brown Fang Thump.9482

Brown Fang Thump.9482

Basically in analogy: right now the foundation wont allow more then 4 buildings to be made on top of, furthermore constructions takes quite a bit of time to renovate/change said buildings.

I totally appreciate that as an accepted position.

Still, the fact that it takes a lot of hard work to make things better is never a good reason to not make things better. Giving women the right to vote wasn’t an easy thing to do in America; but, it was the right thing to do. Good companies, game developers included, should be agile enough to do the hard work necessary to do what’s right for their business. The alternative is to devolve into irrelevance, due to laziness and detachment.

Personally, as a Necro roamer, I find my play didn’t change much at all on Desert, compared to Alpine. It just took longer to travel about during each timed play period. So, my problem is still that the maps aren’t balanced. Team games require balance to work well. This should be obvious to a decent game designer. Computer games often obscure balance in order to compensate for programming/AI issues. It’s the designer’s job to maintain balance despite the limitations of computer technology. This is because, in the long run, beating an inferior opponent into submission or getting beat by an superior opponent stops feeling fun and becomes a chore.

Wouldn’t you agree with that?

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?

For starters HoT’s poor performance is reference to less than expected rate of conversion from F2P to HoT purchases. It doesn’t necessarily correlate with the people playing the game right now vs before HoT. It just means there is/was less than expected number of actual paying customers.

Secondly, short of that one month shift in their internal priorities there is no public record of expansion pack 2 being “pushed back” or delayed. As far as anyone here is concerned bulk of their development resources are still on expansion pack 2. Beyond that we have never known when it was supposed to be coming at all. We know/knew next to nothing about their content pipeline for this year beyond the last raid wing and LS3, likely coming around the next quarterly update.

As far as WvW is concerned the most current authoritative sample of its state are these recent polls and so far, this utter loathing for DBL is not evident. At least not to the degree that you make it out be or then people are more willing to accept a compromise than you think.

This dialogue has probably ran its course, so I too will be bowing out now.

(edited by Crise.9401)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Translation: Source does not exist. Have fun wasting your time trying to find it.

I would tend to agree, I am pretty sure I have read every single red post on these forums, at least since HoT, and most dev comments or reddit on top of that. However, I don’t recall anything having been mentioned about next expansion beyond the fact that Mike Z is at the helm of that ship and that the team was “offline” for about a month to fix up HoT.

There is no feasible way to construe that as ArenaNet changing the next expansion ETA, because to my recollection we never had any ETA to begin with outside unofficial predictions by third parties or trying to divine the future from NCSoft forecasts.

Agreed. Am sure it was something said by the devs that lil devils misinterpreted in some bizarre way, and that now is his ‘source’ for this mysterious Anet saying HoT was a flop garbage. Just projecting ones’ own biases on some innocuous dev post, I would be willing to bet.

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?
If you make it worth my time I may consider retrieving it for you.

I don’t know how else to put this. I don’t know if this is even “re-portable,” but please stop derailing the original topic. It is very annoying to have to go through 2-3 pages of posts to see the same 3 or so people make unrelated responses to one another. Take it elsewhere, or don’t reply at all.

Good point. I’ll zip it, as my responses to lil devil are basically nothing more that my warped sense of humor kicking in. Pointless trying to reason with such inanity, anyways.

I will try to keep my posts on topic from now on.

Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-

(edited by Teon.5168)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Still, the fact that it takes a lot of hard work to make things better is never a good reason to not make things better.

Well, it is not that they won’t do that eventually, however, right now they are working on the scoring changes we voted in as their priority. This is what takes most of their resources at this time. These other polls are things they can do relatively easily, if we want them to.

That means that they may revisit map selection or the number of maps at a later date, however, to use their famous table… those things are not on it until what we asked for first is mostly done.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

With 2 alpine 1 DBL, you still have the issue of:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother.

Makes absolutely no sense.

No matter which server gets it, its still only 1 out of 3 borders. If one server put lots of resources into it then thats less players on 2 alpines – which mean the other 2 servers will outnumber them and gain ground there instead.

Your comment is about as logical as saying whoever has the most people willing to go to EB wins, dont bother with the borders.

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Of course! That must be it? How much you care to wager?

For starters HoT’s poor performance is reference to less than expected rate of conversion from F2P to HoT purchases. It doesn’t necessarily correlate with the people playing the game right now vs before HoT. It just means there is/was less than expected number of actual paying customers.

Secondly, short of that one month shift in their internal priorities there is no public record of expansion pack 2 being “pushed back” or delayed. As far as anyone here is concerned bulk of their development resources are still on expansion pack 2. Beyond that we have never known when it was supposed to be coming at all. We know/knew next to nothing about their content pipeline for this year beyond the last raid wing and LS3, likely coming around the next quarterly update.

As far as WvW is concerned the most current authoritative sample of its state are these recent polls and so far, this utter loathing for DBL is not evident. At least not to the degree that you make it out be or then people are more willing to accept a compromise than you think.

This dialogue has probably ran its course, so I too will be bowing out now.

Poor Hot sales are due to the vast majority of $10 and F2P Purchases being WvW players making more accounts for every server in the game. Care to count the number of posts in this very thread alone that are asking to remove the DBL? How about the numbers on the petition they had on on here a few months ago? There is no need to speculate, it should be voted on outright. No harm in taking an actual vote is there? The population decline for WvW due to HOT was addressed thoroughly in these forums, just scroll back and have a read.

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

(edited by lil devils x.6071)

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

With 2 alpine 1 DBL, you still have the issue of:
Server with most players willing to go to DBL = WIN
Everyone else don’t bother.

Makes absolutely no sense.

No matter which server gets it, its still only 1 out of 3 borders. If one server put lots of resources into it then thats less players on 2 alpines – which mean the other 2 servers will outnumber them and gain ground there instead.

Your comment is about as logical as saying whoever has the most people willing to go to EB wins, dont bother with the borders.

If it is someones home BL, it makes all the difference. If no one will siege it, refresh siege for it, scout it or respond to calls to defend it it is a guaranteed loss for that team. If your server has players that will only respond to Alpine maps& EBG , and not DBL s (what actually happened to numerous servers since HOT release), the game mode is broken for those servers.

Players are willing to go to ALpine and EBG, they dont go to the DBL because they hate it. That was why the had a boycott , EBG queues were insane and players left the game over it and they brought back Alpine in the first place.

Whichever server in the match has the most players willing to go to the DBl at all, will win since the other teams will not EVEN if that is another team’s Home BL since if the home team will not defend it due to it being a DBL, the team who has most players that will go there at all will have free reign over it.

Will the same amount of players who will respond to Alpine and EBG calls ALSO respond to the DBL? They didn’t respond, scout or defend the DBL is why so many left the game over it, they considered the game mode unplayable at that point. When you have 25 people that will hop to EBG to defend and those 25 people will hop to Alpine to defend but only 7 of those 25 will hop to DBL to defend out of that group so you are forced to fight 7 vs 35 people are not very happy with the situation it creates.

The most important thing to remember is players do not stay on one map, The same players hop to all maps to defend all objectives in the game, they will do for all maps EXCEPT the DBL is the problem.

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

(edited by lil devils x.6071)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Bandini.6185

Bandini.6185

lil, if you’re advocating for a removal of DBL, this is not the right topic. We both know a lot of people (me included) don’t want to (and won’t) play on DBL, but the option of scrapping DBL is out of the table.

So, you think it’s a bad poll. Ok. But repeating it every 2 posts is rather counterproductive.

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

lil, if you’re advocating for a removal of DBL, this is not the right topic. We both know a lot of people (me included) don’t want to (and won’t) play on DBL, but the option of scrapping DBL is out of the table.

So, you think it’s a bad poll. Ok. But repeating it every 2 posts is rather counterproductive.

I was told having Alpine back in Spring was off the table too, see how that works? As long as players do not give up letting them know, NOTHING is off the table. Players just need to make sure they are heard. If Anet does not offer players a poll with the options they want, they create petitions and polls of their own..

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

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Posted by: testpig.5018

testpig.5018

Desert BL does need some fine tuning with the overall layout. Main thing.. the Towers in DBL.. don’t offer much reason tactically to be taken. I guess when you had the Oasis event, the southern towards had some reason to them for a shortcut.

But now, with the removed waypoint, the towers don’t provide any purpose.

in the ABLs the Towers(atleast SWT, NWT, and NET) allow you to start a treb siege against the near by keep.

in the DBLs.. you don’t have any of that. Making towards just something to Do for PPT instead of pushing the fight.

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

Desert BL does need some fine tuning with the overall layout. Main thing.. the Towers in DBL.. don’t offer much reason tactically to be taken. I guess when you had the Oasis event, the southern towards had some reason to them for a shortcut.

But now, with the removed waypoint, the towers don’t provide any purpose.

in the ABLs the Towers(atleast SWT, NWT, and NET) allow you to start a treb siege against the near by keep.

in the DBLs.. you don’t have any of that. Making towards just something to Do for PPT instead of pushing the fight.

The strategic placement of towers on the Alpine map not only make the towers more valuable to defend and take, they also force the hand of the defenders that if they let this go they will lose their keeps as well. It is a nice strategic move to turn the tables and force the defense to play offense to take out the trebs and get those towers back.

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

Basically in analogy: right now the foundation wont allow more then 4 buildings to be made on top of, furthermore constructions takes quite a bit of time to renovate/change said buildings.

I totally appreciate that as an accepted position.

Still, the fact that it takes a lot of hard work to make things better is never a good reason to not make things better. Giving women the right to vote wasn’t an easy thing to do in America; but, it was the right thing to do. Good companies, game developers included, should be agile enough to do the hard work necessary to do what’s right for their business. The alternative is to devolve into irrelevance, due to laziness and detachment.

I don’t pretend to know the inner workings of ANET or their business practices. However, I understand that creative production is an organic process. It is not black and white. It doesn’t mean doing “what is right” or “necessary hard work” will make anything good. I don’t think civil rights is a good comparison, e.g. giving women the right to vote isn’t a creative pursuit, they either have it or they don’t. Fighting for that right, however, is a discussion entirely out of scope for this post.

People will like/dislike/mixed/interpret-entirely-differently every creative pursuit.

Should they pursue to working on their game engine to allow easier map resets, map rotations, total map number scaling, etc.? I think they should. My opinion on this got lost underneath other posts, but it is this:


Side “hard to do” preference: work on the game engine itself so scaling the number of maps is easier to allow for future designs instead of just 3 “home maps” 1 “balanced map.” As populations dwindle the map amount can be scaled if and when servers are merged/die off.

However time spent doing this could be a while, meaning their is a risk in losing players attention as effort is put into back end stuff that the players won’t see initially.

Personally, as a Necro roamer, I find my play didn’t change much at all on Desert, compared to Alpine. It just took longer to travel about during each timed play period. So, my problem is still that the maps aren’t balanced. Team games require balance to work well. This should be obvious to a decent game designer. Computer games often obscure balance in order to compensate for programming/AI issues. It’s the designer’s job to maintain balance despite the limitations of computer technology. This is because, in the long run, beating an inferior opponent into submission or getting beat by an superior opponent stops feeling fun and becomes a chore.

Wouldn’t you agree with that?

No, I don’t. It isn’t my place to say a designer’s job because it’s so varied and general of a description. I say no because that isn’t their only job (balance). Understanding balance comes with experience, time, trial, and error with elements involved.

Yes, it is boring to have mis-matches between players, but I think this isn’t the place for that.

RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] masters of the die on inc technique.

Trinity Of Our EU Lords [Kazo] Zudo Jason Betta

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Posted by: Vevric.4351

Vevric.4351

Like most have said already, there should have been an option for no dessert borderlands. Most players i am around or talk to do not want them back. I felt i should leave a post saying this since no DBL’s was not an option.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Teon.5168

Teon.5168

Like most have said already, there should have been an option for no dessert borderlands. Most players i am around or talk to do not want them back. I felt i should leave a post saying this since no DBL’s was not an option.

Again, Anet stated that not having dbls at this moment in time was NOT on the table.
It might be in the future, but right now, that is not an option.

So, of the options available to you, would you rather have 3 months of abls and then 3 months of dbls, or a mixed bl, of 2 abls and 1 dbl? Seems to me like the latter option would cause a lot less overall grief for some players.

Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

You do realize that the majority of the scouts on JQ were on this very forum already ranting about The DBLS? Scroll back month ago.. Oh wait there are JQ scouts on the very first page in this thread as well. I don;t think you are talking about many JQ scouts.. lol

ASK JQ’s most valuable scout..Dewolfe, he was here..

Every single time we map hopped on JQ to defend DBLs’ we lost half the zerg refusing to hop.

Just to address this point rather than continuing to derail this thread, the clear majority of scouts in JQ OCX time prefer scouting on the DBL given that it is far easier to hide. This has been a clear verbal point made on JQ TS. And I don’t see any JQ scouts posting on the first page, I do see an ex JQer though.

As for losing part of the zerg that happens when map hopping now even with Alpine especially hopping off EB.

And anyway if you don’t want DBL at all just vote the 4th option and try to ensure none of the other 3 reaches 75%, that way clearly the ABL will remain and they won’t even rotate DBL in. But in all likelihood that will mean there will not be any development of a new map at all until at least past the next xpac which means that we would be years away from getting another map by which time they would be probably developing GW3 anyway and WvW will be a ghost town with other competitors out by then.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

(edited by morrolan.9608)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: erKo.9586

erKo.9586

I dont want to see the desert maps ever again, so if u planning on taking them back – be sure to have alpine maps beside so you can play which u want – otherwise u lose players again.

[WvW] Thanks Anet for listening to your players during 2016.
Far Shiverpeaks – EU – Since release.

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Powerfat.7294

Powerfat.7294

If you are going to insist on using the desert map – please change it to an eotm style map so we don’t want to play on it we are not forced too for the sake of world score…

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: PariahX.6970

PariahX.6970

lil, if you’re advocating for a removal of DBL, this is not the right topic. We both know a lot of people (me included) don’t want to (and won’t) play on DBL, but the option of scrapping DBL is out of the table.

So, you think it’s a bad poll. Ok. But repeating it every 2 posts is rather counterproductive.

I was told having Alpine back in Spring was off the table too, see how that works? As long as players do not give up letting them know, NOTHING is off the table. Players just need to make sure they are heard. If Anet does not offer players a poll with the options they want, they create petitions and polls of their own..

When was anyone ever told Alpine’s return was “off the table”?! Before Desert even started testing it was made clear there was a map rotation planed and a lot of us started proposing better ways something like that could work which was more in the line of mixed maps (ideally 3 different ones or fewer maps to cater to the smaller WvW population pre-HoT launch). I would never suggest people stop dreaming big but I think the anti Desert forever crowd is being very unrealistic here. Sure sunk costs are irrelevant but do you really prefer a game that is so scared of change and willing to throw away a year of development time? I would much rather have time back and better spent on smarter population fixes sooner but I would never wish the game to take 3 steps backwards with nothing to show for it. I was never one screaming for new maps but a lot of people were from very early on and a lot of them quit while waiting too.

I still fail to understand how even just having one copy of the DBL is going to ruin the game for Alpine lovers. Options are a good thing.

~Xylla~ [oG] on Ehmry Bay [PiXi]
Xyleia Luxuria / Sweet Little Agony / Morning Glory Wine / Precious Illusionz /
Near Fanstastica /Ocean at the End / Blue Eyed Hexe / Andro Queen / Indie Cindee . . .

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Posted by: X T D.6458

X T D.6458

At least also with dbl being around consistently even if on one map, it will make it easier to make changes and fixes to it.

I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<

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Posted by: Ben K.6238

Ben K.6238

They actually did make some changes already, but these muppets wouldn’t be caught looking.

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Posted by: Diku.2546

Diku.2546

4 More Days Left Till Poll Closes.

Based on Last Poll Closing in 5 Days…

Attachments:

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Editing My post to be less long winded. This seems to be a repeating pattern lately.

Change is necessary for WvW to stay alive. No matter the game type new content has to be added or significant changes have to be done to whats already there. The combined setup Anet offers gives us the best chance to give continuous feed back to improve Desert Borderlands. But that only works if people don’t reject even the concept of DBL.

Desert borderlands can be improved. This isn’t some wishful thinking. It is simple logic. Rejecting that is by definition insane and it means your living in your own fantasy world.

So. We know desert borderlands can be improved. And we know arena net is willing to work to improve it (They have already taken a few large steps for towards that).

But the only way that will happen is if players are allowed to play the maps and test the changes so they can continue to provide feedback

Refusing to allow that interaction by refusing to even accept the idea that some people should be allowed to play that map so that it can continue to be improved is… well its the height of selfishness to say the least. If you aren’t even willing to allow other people to play the map so that it can become something fun to not only them but you as well is just plain short sighted.

This poll gives us an opportunity to make the map just as good as alpine borderlands. And due to the nature of the map it has every possibility of being BETTER. We have this chance now. But unless we make use of it then were throwing away not only all the effort that was put into the map from both devs and players but also all of its future potential. And stating that it HAS no potential is purely dishonest.

I voted to have desert borderlands be one of the 3 borderlands in every weekly matchup. Because it gives people that prefer the tried and true a place to be while letting people that want to look for something new do so in the hopes that eventually everyone can enjoy both maps equally.

I hope everyone will vote not on a knee jerk reaction but after actually thinking about the impact their decision…or rejection…can have on the future of the game.

Ghost Yak

(edited by Shadelang.3012)

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Posted by: dank.3680

dank.3680

Actually they DID advertise it as " Large scale PvP" and stated that was what the players asked for and was giving us when they discussed the results of the surveys they used to create this game. They specifically told us the players asked for large scale PvP, that they heard us and they were giving it to us. So YES, they not only advertises it as large scale PvP, they outright told us that is what they were giving us and why many bought the game.
Raiding castles is still nonstop PvP if implemented properly. Players fighting other players over objectives = WvW. " nonstop PvP action" should be players fighting other players nonstop over objectives. I am not sure what you are understanding that to be.

PvD undefended structures on the other hand has no place in a PvP game mode, nor should it be rewarded.

I was there in the beginning too… Yet, many things changed since then in WvW, PvP and PvE, so it feels more relevant to look at what they advertise now, instead of sticking to what they used to advertise, even if I understand the disappointement.

As much as I understand their official site, the main focus of WvW seem to be taking on and holding objectives (and thus, PPT). And in the process, you may encounter opponents, thus have PvP. Not necessarily in a big scale, by the way.
If no player defends an objective, then you can take it on your own, just by opening it, and fighting the NPCs. That’s more or less impossible to avoid in a 1 week persistent map. It’s hard to have a sufficient amount of players any time, everywhere.

There’s here a slight difference with using objectives as an excuse to do (I exaggerate on purpose) blob vs. blob (what many ppl understand as “large scale PvP”) in the middle of a field, with no interest in camps, keeps or towers. And there’s such a biais currently in WvW, as I stated in another post, where I related 2 comms blob vs blobbing in the field amongst green objectives (we play red) and not caring about our red towers and camps being taken over. We were players who took those objectives, and raised them to T1, and we were disgusted.

In a nutshell, and from what I understand from updates and official site, ANet expects players to focus on objectives, ways to take them, upgrade them, get benefit from them, and hold them ; and have large scale PvP at various stages of the process.They do not expect players to focus on looking for a big crowd to fight in some kind of large scale courtyard ; and not care much about objectives which would be mere “PvE gimmicks”.

Since you have been here as well, you would know that the reason players moved to the field and stopped messing with the objectives and caring about the score was due to the Arrow cart damage increase on players and the rewarding of PvD. Winning became an embarrassment, not something players were proud of. Players started out in the objectives and caring about the score, but due to Anets decisions, they changed that. Anet has to change the way they treat WvW for players to care again.

They moved away from the arrow carts, and if they want players to return to the objectives they need to change siege vs player and the way it is rewarded. The focus should be on players fighting other players over objectives and to get it to return to that they need to make necessary changes to correct the problems otherwise it will never change and only go downhill from there long term. Currently die fast, go back and PVD undefended structure have your zerge jump on siege inside objectives and not fight = WIN. That has to change if they want players to care about winning again.

There are multiple ways to accomplish that easily. One, for example, would be to use the objectives to just “BUFF” the fights, not score on it’s own. Instead the objective gives players the most loot and PPK while fighting over it instead. That way the objective is actually MORE valuable than it is currently, but doesn’t actually do score points on it’s own without players doing something to earn it. If you only score points and get loot while fighting other players over yaks, towers, sentries, camps, keeps then the objectives actually matter, it is not an embarrassment to win, and players are willing to fight over them as they should have been all along. Players fighting in the fields and not caring about the score or objectives is due to the game being broken and needing to be fixed, not because they players are actually doing something wrong. Fix the game and players will play it and enjoy it that way.

Every time you make kitten up like statistics and make lump assumptions of who did what and why, you just look like an idiot and invalidate any argument you may have.

I’m getting real tired of seeing you talk like you speak for every kittening player in the game… And making up bullkitten about the maps being the reason players were lost or gained, it’s just kittening rediculous.

Hey I’ve been here since obt1 and I left the game right when HOT came out TOO… Guess WHAT…. IT wasnt due to kittening DBL…….. I came back later TOO… Guess what… it wasnt because of kittening ABL..

I don’t know why I’m surprised though… Coming from KILL who spews nonsense daily in WvW about if you aren’t on a melee train class and not on TS you don’t deserve to WvW and are inferior to KILL…. Such ego’s.

#MAGSWAG: All class player. XOXO

(edited by dank.3680)

WvW Poll 31 May: Mixed Borderlands (CLOSED)

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

And anyway if you don’t want DBL at all just vote the 4th option and try to ensure none of the other 3 reaches 75%, that way clearly the ABL will remain and they won’t even rotate DBL in.

That’s not correct.

If one of the choices don’t reach 75% then their current plan stays in effect. And the current plan is to rotate BL’s every 3 months.

Of course they could do what a poster above said and have a follow up poll between the top two vote getters.

But in no case is Alpine going to stay without Desert being in the mix somehow.

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Posted by: Akkeros.1675

Akkeros.1675

ebg = chocolate ice cream
abl= vanilla ice cream
dbl = bile flavored ice cream

excuse me sir: we here a raskin bobbins want to introduce a new flavor, …kinda tastes like vomit. I know you usually get vanilla but we are only gonna sell dbl cream for the next three months. So, since we don’t wanna lose your business and gain the business of the 7 people that liked our new ice cream I wanted to give you a choice,…would you like 2 scoops of vanilla with one scoop of bile OR 1 scoop of vanilla with 2 scoops of bile?

Ermmm? no ty, bye

business 101 > marketing 101

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Posted by: Taxidriver.2043

Taxidriver.2043

makes no sense to rotate consider only 28% want to rotate from the current poll.