WvW Timeline: Situation Explained

WvW Timeline: Situation Explained

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

So I see alot of people asking “what happened?” and I see alot of other people trying to explain things who clearly haven’t been around since the start and don’t understand the context. For instance, many players think the stability change is what killed-off hammer-trains, when the reality is that most top-end guilds had shifted away from hammers more than a year before this.

I will try to explain here the history of WvW and show the major changes that had a material impact on how WvW is played, to give some proper context to how we have ended up where we are. I don’t think I’ve missed anything important (obviously plenty of insignificant things missing) but shout if you think I have.

It is important to understand the timing of events, as this is what explains why HoT changes have been poorly received. For instance, the Desert BLs are not inherently bad maps, however the series of events from 2012 to 2015 resulted in a player-base which was conditioned to not like them.

August 2012:
GW2 Launched

Obvious hype at new game, massive queues for WvW. “Turtle” meta emerges, abusing unlimited AoE heals, bundling together, and nuking from ranged.

November 2012:
Ascended Trinkets introduced.
Orbs of Power removed due to hacking.
AoE Heal skills limited to 5 targets.

Meta shifts from turtling to maximising abuse of culling through portal-bombs and chaining veils.

January 2013:
Gem-cost for transferring server introduced.

Feb 2013:
First organised GvGs take place in EU.

March 2013:
Culling removed.
WXP Ranks and Masteries introduced.

Emergence of the “hammer-train” meta, making heavy use of guardian stability uptime, warrior warhorn cleanses, elementalist water-fields, and hammer-stuns.

April 2013:
Confusion and Retaliation adjusted to match PvP values. The “confusion-bomb” tactic dies out.
Siege randomly despawning fixed.
Arrow-cart damage buffed by 80%.

May 2013:
Obsidian Sanctum moved out of EB into its own map instance.
Supply/Stealth Traps introduced.

July 2013:
Siege blueprints become trade-able, significantly increasing availability of superior siege.

September 2013:
Lake in borderlands replaced with Bloodlust Ruins.
Ascended weapons introduced.
“Violate my game-mode” incident where an ANet employee deliberately trolls an organised GvG, producing significant backlash on forums.

Bloodlust Ruins were controversial when first introduced, but quickly became totally irrelevant to most people. Generally only used by people to do daily’s.

“Violate my game-mode” incident severely damaged the relationship between ANet and hardcore WvW guilds.

October 2013:
First WvW Tournament Season
Boons and heals adjusted to prioritise party members.

Tournament sees highest participation in WvW since initial release.
There is extreme disappointment at the lack-luster rewards given at the end of the tournament. Bug (which was never fixed) means many players receive nothing at all, and those who do generally just get a few blues/greens.

At this point many players become dis-illusioned with “PPT” play and server-rankings, as tournaments highlight how dominant coverage/population is, and the poor rewards. “Fights” over-take “Points” as the most popular reason for playing.

November 2013:
Arena added to Obsidian Sanctum, assumed to be a consequence of “violate-gate”.
Toys and town-clothes disabled in WvW.

GvGs mainly move into OS, reducing some of the tension between hardcore PPTers and GvG guilds.
Move to OS sees the emergence of the focus-party meta, as OS has significantly more space than old windmill site.
Dis-abling toys in WvW means there is little reason for WvW players to buy things from the gem-store.

December 2013:
Ascended armour introduced.

Meta among guilds shifts from hard-CC to soft-CC. Warriors become most valuable for Flurry rather than Hammer-stun. Flurry+WellBomb becomes dominant guild meta. Pug-blobs still follow hammer-train meta.

February 2014:
Edge of the Mists map added.
Queues fixed to show your queue position.

Introduction of EoTM sees a significant population shift, as the more casual WvW players move there permanently, enticed by the significantly higher badge/karma/XP rewards. New players no longer need to enter “proper” WvW in order to earn badges for legendary.
This is initially received as a good thing, as now “true” WvW players don’t have to compete for queue-spaces with “PvErs”. Long-term result is significant drain of WvW population.

March 2014:
Second WvW Tournament Season begins.

Once again the tournament rewards are bugged, with many players not receiving the reward tickets.

April 2014:
Megaservers introduced in PvE
WXP changed from soul-bound to account-bound.
Ferocity stat replaces Crit-%
Major re-work of runes, sigils, and method for unlocking traits.

WXP change well received. Megaservers in PvE sever any link between WvW and PvE, and makes it much harder for WvW to recruit players from PvE. Decline of WvW population accelerates.

Ferocity change sees shift in roaming from power builds to condi builds.

September 2014:
Coloured Commander-tags added for 300g.
Siege-Disabler introduced.
Third (and final) WvW Season Tournament begins.
Banners no longer revive dead Keep/Tower Lords.

Significant backlash against the proposed cost for commander-tag colours. Cost is eventually removed.

March 2015:
WvW maps no longer required for Map Completion.
Stability changed from stacking duration to stacking intensity.

WvW no longer required for map completion removes the last incentive for new players to try WvW.

Stability change does not affect roaming or GvG, but has major impact on large-scale fights. “Pirate-ship” becomes dominant zerg meta. Warrior is effectively removed from the meta. Ability of smaller guilds to fight larger groups significantly damaged.

June 2015:
Major re-work of traits (removal of “points”, forced to choose 3 trait-lines).

July 2015:
Golem-Rush Event

August 2015:
Change to arrow-cart line of sight.

October 2015:
Heart of Thorns launched.
Alpine map replaced with Desert map.
Revenant + Elite specializations introduced.
Changes to guild upgrades.
Guild Halls and Arenas.
Shield Generator introduced.
Guild banners and tactivators introduced.
Changes to how buildings upgrade.
WvW achievement requirements adjusted.
Badge gear now salvageable.
EoTM rewards reduced.
Waypoint availability between repel events fixed.
Fortified Gates.
Condi-food nerfed.

Many positive changes, but unfortunately many negative changes also. Major problems of WvW remain un-addressed (particularly population and stability). New PvE content, and requirement to PvE for new specializations and gear drains WvW population even further.

Revenant and and elite-specs reinforce the pirate-ship meta. Roaming becomes almost impossible for all non-elite builds.

Desert BLs not well received. Lag from Oasis event makes it almost unplayable for many. Majority of remaining population shifts to only playing EB if possible.

Changes to guild upgrades universally disliked.
Poor design of guild-arenas results in many GvG guilds giving up.

November 2015:
New squad UI.
Desert BL waypoints moved from spawn-towers to keeps.

January 2016:
PPK introduced.
Can no longer revive fully-dead while in combat.
Rallying reduced from 5 to 1.
Banners nerfed.

All changes generally well received, but do not address major issues.

March 2016:
Oasis event disabled.

If there was one period I would point to as sending WvW into decline, it would be the introduction of EoTM, abysmal tournament rewards, the removal of WvW requirement for legendary, and introduction of megasever cutting off the supply of new players into WvW. No matter how good or bad the updates to the game are, veterans will always leave eventually. Without new-blood the death of the game-mode is only a matter of when, not if.

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

(edited by Ragnar.4257)

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Posted by: Sviel.7493

Sviel.7493

I love this~

Thank you immensely for this concise history.

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Posted by: Angel Heart.6739

Angel Heart.6739

I hope you are not referring to my posts, with all due respect i’m not trying to touch stability in any sense, i’(m just trying to make a difficult situation better for is all; just being helpfull:-)

Kind regards :-)

Djynn Tm – Founder and Guild Leader – Angel Hearts Clan [Halo] Seafarers Rest

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Posted by: Liston.9708

Liston.9708

For good or bad, I’d add the removal of the match-up sub forum from here. Once that was removed, it seemed interest waned…..

YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→YB→most likely YB

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Posted by: Angel Heart.6739

Angel Heart.6739

i’m not trying to influence your judgement in any way but it would be nice if some of you were to give their honest opinion concerning my posts on the forum thank you in advance :-)

Djynn Tm – Founder and Guild Leader – Angel Hearts Clan [Halo] Seafarers Rest

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Posted by: Luvpie.8350

Luvpie.8350

awesome post. shows how wvw was mostly ignored in terms of balance and addressing root problems in the expansion. Just 3 maps and repackaging existing guild upgrades into guild hall grind.

Apply @ Fang-Gaming.US
Follow @twitch.tv/Luvpie

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

This is a really good timeline. I even like the part where you link the rise of focus parties with the OS Arena. +1

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: Lord of Rings.5371

Lord of Rings.5371

Thanks for the history.

A few changes could have increased WvW activities.

April 2014

Death penalty was removed with “The End of Repair Costs”.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/say-goodbye-to-armor-repair-costs-and-hello-to-free-trait-resets/

Oct 2014
WvW Fall Tournament 2014 started an “Adopt-a-Dev” project.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/adopt-a-dev-was-a-blast/

August 29, 2015
Guild Wars 2 started “Play For Free”.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/

Why didn’t these efforts work is another topic.

Fire Water Air
FA

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

To the OP you missed the increase in AC damage.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Ragnar.4257

Ragnar.4257

To the OP you missed the increase in AC damage.

Fixed

[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]

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Posted by: Ubikuo.8432

Ubikuo.8432

Thanks a lot for history

I like to remember a “major change” that had a huge impact on how much trust I (and others) had in following WvW’s development.
3 June 2014 (21 months after release)
- Dead players have their name greyed instead of red colored. (not in patch notes)

Other such changes demostrating “fast” attention to WvW players’ requests…
9 september 2014 (24 months after release)
Dead players can no longer linger on the ground indefinitely and will be forced to respawn at a portal keep after 5 minutes.

4 November 2014 (26 months after release)
All siege weapon sites now display names with their build prompts.

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

Couple things could be added.

Dec 2014:
PPK and removal of white swords tested for a month, afterwards no word on PPK until a year later.

July 2015:
Golem-Rush Event, filled will bugs and exploits.
Blueprints could be duplicated, the golem supercharge buff which gave 100% more damage to golems and players would sometimes bug out and remain on players outside of golems, leading to a lot of “easy” killing. Not one word was said by Anet during this time, nor were any fixes implemented, the event was allowed to run it’s course despite many calls in the forums to shut it down early.

Aug 2015:
Changed server population status to only count active wvw players.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

(edited by Xenesis.6389)

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Posted by: Xiisty.2974

Xiisty.2974

Good timeline right here.

Regarding HoT release: if you talk about the “condi-food nerfed”, I would also add the new runes, sigils and foods that helped the boons stacking and damage reductions.

[TA] Team Aggression

(edited by Xiisty.2974)

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Posted by: Sabull.5670

Sabull.5670

Exellent post! Interestingly I had just recently dreamed of similar idea, a WvW time line with important updates, guild histories, gvgs, top ppt drama. In a form of timeline infograph.

[TA]

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Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

You forgot to add the stickied thread entitled “Night Capping and You”, where Anet recognized the problem with population imbalance and scoring and have still not resolved it.

Sep 2012

(edited by Swamurabi.7890)

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Ah yes, the megaservers. We wanted exceptions in LA and maybe cities, and not just WvW’ers wanted it. This was promptly ignored.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

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Posted by: Nidome.1365

Nidome.1365

Free server transfer window also heavily damaged WvW – a number of large guilds on many servers moved – however some players in these guilds decided not to move creating guild splits and a lot of players regretted the servers moves but couldn’t afford the gem cost to move back after the free period ended.
This disillusioned a portion of the player base, damaged guilds and caused dramatic population swings on some servers which in turn amplified server population imbalance.

I also know of a number of WvW players who are still playing WvW who first went to WvW for map completion so I agree that this had a major impact of recruiting players to WvW.

(edited by Nidome.1365)

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Yeah world completion combined with megaservers I think have made a big impact. I mean there must be a ton of people in the game that hasnt even been to WvW because they never had a reason to go there – people that could get hooked and populate it. Its not like Anet even advertise WvW, no seasons, nothing on the page to promote it… Just a little icon that few notice.

Imagine if the loading screens was changed to display the status of WvW, lol?

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

Its not like Anet even advertise WvW, no seasons, nothing on the page to promote it… Just a little icon that few notice.

Imagine if the loading screens was changed to display the status of WvW, lol?

What they should have been doing all this time is wvw bonus weekends, (wow does it with their battlegrounds, every weekend a bg map gets bonus exp). Pop the wvw buff up and advertise it like they like to do for spvp events, but their bad marketing team has been so focused on spvp they don’t have time for anything else.

It’s not like they need to have actual events happening, you use it as a tool to remind people that hey there’s another game mode you can try out and get a bonus while you’re at it.

Hell they should be doing that for everything in the game, one buff that gives bonus exp/gold/karma/magic find for spvp, wvw, fractals, dungeons, raids, etc. Then every weekend pop one of them and do that in order every week.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: lil devils x.6071

lil devils x.6071

I think the increased NPC presence and HP of NPC’s and Champ nonsense should be included as well, as that may seem insignificant, but when coupled with the move away from PvP game play, increased siege vs player, Airship vs player, banner vs player nonsense people coming in to wvw just to kill worms and do dailies instead of play WvW, adding that was often perceived as insult to injury. It just felt like they kept shifting further and further from a PvP zone turning your stomach every time you see an NPC in WvW. ALSO the environmental factors and terrain added are another much loathed addition.

Thank you for posting this. I know some of us may come across as overly harsh at times due to the " buildup" of these events that has frustrated many of us to the point that it may just come across as ranting at times. Adding the precise action taken is much more useful than describing it as “Diminishing player skill” and " PvE focus".

[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY

(edited by lil devils x.6071)

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Posted by: vana.5467

vana.5467

Very well thought out and presented, Ragnar.

If I were to add anything it’d be a note that the June 23rd ’15 update also reinforced pirateshipping by increasing overall damage output.

I think this is a very crucial point that bears emphasizing:

October 2013:
“Fights” over-take “Points” as the most popular reason for playing.

You can argue the exact moment it happened, but it’s definitely been reality for a very long time. With the upcoming WvW focused balance patch, they seem to be finally realizing that treating WvW as a PvP mode is a good idea. Though I can’t help but wonder where we could have been if only they’d had that attitude from the beginning.

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Posted by: FrouFrou.4958

FrouFrou.4958

Wasn’t there an attempt to correcting the server statuses and transfers at some point? Or at least they changed how the population is counted and it doesn’t include PvE player who have never stepped in WvW. As a result depending on the activity of the server during the match ups the server status shows full, high etc and it changes over time rather than instantly.

Froudactyl // Herp Derp Druid // Judge Legends [JDGE] // Seafarer’s Rest

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Posted by: gennyt.3428

gennyt.3428

Wasn’t there an attempt to correcting the server statuses and transfers at some point? Or at least they changed how the population is counted and it doesn’t include PvE player who have never stepped in WvW. As a result depending on the activity of the server during the match ups the server status shows full, high etc and it changes over time rather than instantly.

Yeah but that was pretty ridiculous as well since not a single server was marked “low” even when they really should have been. Leaving new players to come to this sub forum confused and then annoyed when they learn that they might need to part with more of their money if they want active WvWvW servers.

Whispers with meat.

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Posted by: Kasteros.9847

Kasteros.9847

For a moment I was crying cos of all this nostalgia… Yeah for sure EoTM was a moment when WvW got downed and stabillity changes the moment when it got finished[FFFFFFFFFFFFF]

[One][SiOn][dF]
16.03.15 We remember! R.I.P. MT
Shocking interview with Anet WvW Dev

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Posted by: LJMaster.6214

LJMaster.6214

Personally, I believe pirate ship came about as a result of the leader focus meta.

Melees could no longer push, because leaders would get bursted and then bombed on top of. This came through December 2015 – March 2015 well before stab patch. Believe me, I fought HoW and it was painful (and boring).

Not everybody that pirateshipped focused leaders of course, but what I mean is that guilds had to play more cautiously, especially the guy leading, meaning that this line fighting began.

Leader of Amplified Wrath [AmP]
Former Leader of Vendetta [VnT]

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

Wasn’t there an attempt to correcting the server statuses and transfers at some point? Or at least they changed how the population is counted and it doesn’t include PvE player who have never stepped in WvW. As a result depending on the activity of the server during the match ups the server status shows full, high etc and it changes over time rather than instantly.

Yeah but that was pretty ridiculous as well since not a single server was marked “low” even when they really should have been. Leaving new players to come to this sub forum confused and then annoyed when they learn that they might need to part with more of their money if they want active WvWvW servers.

Yeah that’s a big one left off the list. The server population status changing to only count wvw population came in Aug 2015 I believe. It did help a couple servers which were mid tier but marked as high or full, dragonbrand, sos, and darkhaven I believe benefited the most.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Free server transfer window also heavily damaged WvW

This should be added because it’s pretty significant.

Also, t’s good to see “violating my game mode” and the golem rush event on the list as they really damaged Anet’s credibility with WvW players.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

September 2013:
Lake in borderlands replaced with Bloodlust Ruins.
Ascended weapons introduced.
“Violate my game-mode” incident where an ANet employee deliberately trolls an organised GvG, producing significant backlash on forums.

I was taking part in that epic GvG, what an historical moment that was (the Anet dude showing up not the GvG).

October 2015:
Heart of Thorns launched.
Poor design of guild-arenas results in many GvG guilds giving up.

Well Colin promised a bigger arena a short time after the HoT release in a live-stream. Of course it wasn’t true, just like the legendaries.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

Funny to go back and look at the posts near launch. We’re still talking about the same issues and people still have the same complaints as way back then.

Also I’m pretty sure hammer train was a thing way before March 2013. Guilds on my server were doing it before free transfers ended; I remember because they all left at that time.

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Posted by: Sviel.7493

Sviel.7493

It is interesting to note that the ‘fights focus’ came about due to a disillusionment with PPT. If one looks around today, the fight guilds are actively pushing for WvW to become more fight oriented. The PPT guilds are outspoken or perhaps have left due to said disillusionment. Most importantly, several are claiming that straight PvP is the sole purpose of the game mode.

I wonder how that sentiment would have fared before the start of the decline?

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Posted by: Aeowia.7214

Aeowia.7214

Most importantly, several are claiming that straight PvP is the sole purpose of the game mode.

Not just pointless PvP, but PvP for a reason – though that reason was lost and needs to be restored. I mean past tense, needed a long time again… likely far too late now. The trust in Anet is gone, and the way they currently operate doesn’t help either: fabricating “surprise” fixes that mostly worsen the situation. And the game mode won’t fix itself…

[FV] Fearless Vanguard, The Jade Quarry

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

Correction
Orbs of Power removed due to hacking and balancing.

i remember server that had 3 of them always win

Also missing the wall exploit that let certain class to climb in.
Also landscape that allow people to leap into the keep.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

(edited by SkyShroud.2865)

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Posted by: Simonoly.4352

Simonoly.4352

It was the March and June 2015 updates that were the nail in the coffin for my guild. We could no longer bust zergs because shared stability was gone in an instant and then the Specialisation update just removed many of the weaknesses of each class making it far easier for zerglings to create optimised builds with high damage and high survivability.

Then HoT hit, Hammer Revenants and Dragonhunters topped up the oppressive nature of the pirate ship and battles in WvW were irreversibly damaged to the point that no one in my guild plays anymore.

Gandara

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Posted by: funghetto.1584

funghetto.1584

those are the right words “with high damage and high survivability.”

thanks anet for this release of Hot in wvw scenario

“There’s no such thing as balance, fairness or honor.”
a Fissure Of Woe player that has no home.

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Posted by: MasterD.4790

MasterD.4790

This is a great timeline! Hopefully it can help put things in perspective for everyone!

Gamadorn the epitome of a hotjoin hero

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Posted by: funghetto.1584

funghetto.1584

“Stability change does not affect roaming or GvG, but has major impact on large-scale fights. “Pirate-ship” becomes dominant zerg meta. Warrior is effectively removed from the meta. Ability of smaller guilds to fight larger groups significantly damaged.”

“CC – CC – CC – CC – CC” its a pve champ the enemy group! HAHAHAHAHA

god you are right – (ps. from ofc 1200 range! ask 3 dragonhunter to drop 3 huntersward, someone will die!)

“There’s no such thing as balance, fairness or honor.”
a Fissure Of Woe player that has no home.

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Posted by: Luvpie.8350

Luvpie.8350

“Stability change does not affect roaming or GvG, but has major impact on large-scale fights. “Pirate-ship” becomes dominant zerg meta. Warrior is effectively removed from the meta. Ability of smaller guilds to fight larger groups significantly damaged.”

“CC – CC – CC – CC – CC” its a pve champ the enemy group! HAHAHAHAHA

god you are right – (ps. from ofc 1200 range! ask 3 dragonhunter to drop 3 huntersward, someone will die!)

But guys.. .anet can turn things on and off without any issues… surely they can address huntersward as soon as they reliaze its OP and doesn’t even render due to graphics issues. /s

Apply @ Fang-Gaming.US
Follow @twitch.tv/Luvpie

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Posted by: funghetto.1584

funghetto.1584

that post of mine was provocative, ok sorry.
behaviours of some skills and some “not showing” traps-marks-skills on the ground (as shown instead of most of stuff) that doesnt help at all in wvw scenario.

get the stability change of 1 year ago was “more or less” fine untile the perma CC of Hot expansion, and there you go.

stability is useless or CC is simply to much.
can’t see it in other ways.

as “high damage and high survivability”
all from the introduction of Hot in wvw.
(still think that Anet didnt consider at all the impact of Hot in wvw)

(roaming is one part of the wvw game – and some changes arent effecting the game mode – Hot elite spec required in 99% of the roaming builds)

but in every kind of fight, outnumbered or even numbers fights, both “old” and “new” system SHOULD have a chance.
but its not like this. (for bugs, distance cc distance shots with low cds – traps/skills not showing – or whatever)

“There’s no such thing as balance, fairness or honor.”
a Fissure Of Woe player that has no home.

(edited by funghetto.1584)