Guild Wars 2

scerevisiae.1972:

Also, why isn’t Edge of the Mists on the table as a BL map?

So yeah, I’d really like to see another poll that explicitly mentions 3 distinct BL maps as an option, I’m willing to bet $$ this is what most players really want.

Because eotm is not designed as a borderland map, it doesn’t even have upgrades… why do people not understand the differences of these maps?

Can’t have 3 distinct borderland maps if you only have 2 at the moment…. they would work on a third if this poll went through to have different bls up at the same time.. then they would poll again to start developing a map when the next major priority is ready to go… which is after the current scoring changes.

Swagger.1459:

Well, here’s the thing…

I voted “yes” only because I’m hoping dbl will get a revamp, and because the “yes” vote possibly leads to another new map in play, thus making 4 unique maps in play at the same time.

Completely agree with this statement……and a lot of the rest of your post had some very valid points, as well, imo.

Swagger.1459:

Teon.5168:

Swagger.1459:

Just wondering, do any of you know why dbl was designed the way it was?

That’s a good question, Swagger. I imagine that a couple posters here will enlighten us all on it.

My thoughts on it is that they were still in HoT design mode, and thought that multiple levels in the bls would also be a very cool idea. Dbls would work, but they need a lot of tweaking. If you’re going to do HoT style multi-level design in wvw, then why not also add the pve HoT feature of gliding? Now there’s something wild…..the thought of a huge zerg gliding over areas of Dbls with rangers shooting them down……lol.

Right now, I think there is probably a different makeup to the wvw team. I think that is the reason for all the communication. And they’re looking at it all with different eyes. Hence the polls.

Just my thoughts on it. And I certainly don’t claim those ideas to be correct or representative of the entire player base. Just my foolish imaginings on it all. /shrug

Well, here’s the thing…

Players are saying “no” to dbl because of the design intent. Ya see, most players who like wvw want more open spaces to have massive battles. The devs intentionally pandered to the crowd complaining about zergs and blobs. So the devs made maps specifically to combat blobs. Bad idea and lack of foresight, goes to show how out of touch the developers are…

The dev’s were actually trying to listen to all those endless threads on this forum about how to break up those zergs and blobs & demanding more map variety. There’s a ton of stuff in the DBL that came from ideas on this forum, just turned out the game no longer had the population to support that intensive of a level of game play. Now we can argue rather casuals or forum goers are in the “majority” of the current active player base but I think we would have the same problem with the discussion on the popularity of the DBL.

Before ANET did the poll thing they actually were trying the reactionary approach and often were doing things to address peoples concerns from this forum. Their problem has always been how kitten long their WvW development cycle is and by the time they had something ready for prime time that the players just spent the last 6 months asking for it is no longer relevant (EotM) or the players who wanted it that way have left game (DBL). I do not envy those poor (not to mention understaffed) developers and it is no wonder we chewed through a few over the last couple of years or had to endure months of silence on these forums.

I still find it a huge waste if a segment of the population convinces them to trash a whole map instead of making more improvements and worry about it turning into a pattern. Doesn’t matter what they do at this point, WvW is pretty stale anyways so just try to enjoy what you can while you can I guess. /shrug

Shadelang.3012:

Using the terrain to your advantage over gimmicks (like kiting in and ABOVE the cliffs near NE camp).

What do I get in EBG and ABL if I don’t want to deal with that? Oh their coming after me in the middle of this flat plain and Im not running a stealth class and there is no terrain that works to my advantage? Well better hide in this tower then.

Sorry to break it to you, but on EBG and ABL the kind of large group harassment you describe is perfectly possible, even without “cheesy stealth combos”. Ive done this plenty with DH or even vanilla guard, one of the most un-mobile class there is. It already is quite costly (in terms of time and effort) and disadvantageous for a pug zerg to chase roamers like that. Of course there is a risk involved and every roamer thats still left in this game knows that a roaming build worth its salt should have some sort of exit strategy.
What you ask for is the ability as a solo player/small group to severely impede larger groups with impunity, because due to the DBL map design in order to retaliate the enemy would have to run around for half a minute to just get on the same level of elevation as you. Does that sound fair in any shape or form?

@ the thread posters:

Just say “no” to these kinds of threads.

Just say “yes” to acceptance.

Just say “yes” to diversity.

@ the OP:

Gord forbid we have 1 out of 4 maps you don’t want or have to play on that some1 else wants to play on. It’s getting really hard to respond to these threads in a way that won’t get my flagged.
I find this “complaining”, in place of a more negative word, to be disgusting. You have alpine back……you will always have 2 different maps you are able to do wvsw on, try to be grateful for once. You were given alpine back without an actual unbiased playerbase vote! Do you have any idea how grateful you should be for that? Anyone can get 100 people from a much larger community together to spam the threads and forums of the game asking for something biased. For the devs to give it to you…knowing you are such a small group is unheard of.

Its posts like this that prove the old wvsw team was right to ignore community feedback. Would you say this post out loud to the dev team in person? After all the trouble they went through to revert to alpine for you and the rest of ur minority group? After all the trouble they went through to make a new map when people said alpine looked horrid and was boring. If you wouldn’t say it straight to someone’s face you shouldn’t make a post about it.

Amenaza.8346:

Shadelang.3012:

Using the terrain to your advantage over gimmicks (like kiting in and ABOVE the cliffs near NE camp).

What do I get in EBG and ABL if I don’t want to deal with that? Oh their coming after me in the middle of this flat plain and Im not running a stealth class and there is no terrain that works to my advantage? Well better hide in this tower then.

Sorry to break it to you, but on EBG and ABL the kind of large group harassment you describe is perfectly possible, even without “cheesy stealth combos”. Ive done this plenty with DH or even vanilla guard, one of the most un-mobile class there is. It already is quite costly (in terms of time and effort) and disadvantageous for a pug zerg to chase roamers like that. Of course there is a risk involved and every roamer thats still left in this game knows that a roaming build worth its salt should have some sort of exit strategy.
What you ask for is the ability as a solo player/small group to severely impede larger groups with impunity, because due to the DBL map design in order to retaliate the enemy would have to run around for half a minute to just get on the same level of elevation as you. Does that sound fair in any shape or form?

Well I have to say you did a pretty good job cherry picking one part of my post to respond to while putting words into my mouth and completely ignoring the purpose of my post.

That part of my post is based off my own experiences. As I stated at the beginning of the post I do NOT claim to speak for any other player except for those I know and play with personally something some other people have not had the courage to do.

If your going to respond to my post. At least have the decency to not pick the one part of the post that was based on personnel opinion and experience. Of COURSE people are going to have different experiences. But choosing only one part of my post to rip at while ignoring the rest (Including as I said before the point of the post) is inherently dishonest on your part. As you take something out of context in order to portray it in a specific fashion to other readers.

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

You mean 5% of the wvw population that actually liked DBL ?

I say No to DBL.

Lets face it, DBL is far better than the alpine map we have today.

If BDO wasn’t region blocked for me, I would have went there too. In fact, I have a number of members quit gw2 and playing it via VPN.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

I just made a post, addressing these concerns, on page 5 of the official stickied thread, but I’m posting here too for additional visibility. I know a lot of players get into the habit of ignoring stickied posts or only looking at posts the first time they get a red reply.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-31-May-Mixed-Borderlands/page/5#post6185533

Since there will be a Poll about complete removal of the dessert border it actually would have been beter to have both questions in 1 Poll as that would actually Make it clear for everyone (see reactions of some who are nit voting now)

Questions could be (both with 75% majority)

1 do you want to keep dessert border or completely remove it

2 in case dessert border stays in the game, do you want rotation or simultaneous borderlands (=current poll)

In that way everyone would probably vote for both questions fully aware that rotations would then include dessert borderlands.

I think that this would change the results of the current poll as now players might vote for rotation thinking that it keeps dessert borderlands out of the game…(which is for now not the case)

Since Tyler Bearce now announced that there will also be a poll about the complete removal of dessert borderlands, I suggest we have a re-poll in which both questions are included in 1 poll. This because the current poll is likely mistaken by many who think that by voting for rotations, they keep dessert borderlands out of the game (which is not the case).

a suggestion for the poll questions:

Just like now, both questions would require a 75% super majority vote

Question 1:
Do you want to completely remove dessert borderlands from the game Yes/No

Question 2, in case dessert borderlands remains in the game, do you want to have rotations (A) or simultaneous borderlands (B,C)

A Rotations ( x weeks 3 dessert borderlands, then x weeks 3 alpine borderlands)

B Simultaneous (1 dessertborderland, 2 alpine borderlands, dessert border is rotated between servers weekly as much as possible)

C Simultaneous (1 alpine borderland, 2 dessert borderlands, alpine border is rotated between servers weekly as much as possible)

Everyone would be forced to answer both questions to cast their vote.

In this way there be no confusion about if the rotation/simultaneous options like we have in the current poll would affect the question to whether on not to completely remove dessert borderlands.

In this way all the options are polled at once and everyone can vote for his/her true opinion (as many apparently miss the option atm to completely remove dessert borderlands) and then as well for the 2nd question for which option they like best in case the border is not voted out of the game.

Rashagar.8349:

Ben K.6238:

It’s the old-fashioned debating strategy of argumentum ex anum.
You can look at the current poll results to see the number who prefer DBL over ABL is not that small.

I voted for 2 alps 1 desert, and I know that my voting wasn’t influenced by map preference and more by a vague sense of balance/fairness.

Basically I don’t think you can appropriate that voting split (whatever the split happens to be) as a sign of map preferences. Trying to seems disingenuous.

You can fairly safely assume that the 13% of players voting for 2 DBLs prefer it to Alpine. The rest of the poll options don’t imply anything, but that gives you a minimum large enough to reveal this “no-one wants to see DBL” tripe for what it is.

I say B, however I don’t want to play at Desert Borderlands, If you implement A, then ‘ill be gone for 3 months at least until the Alpine’s back again.

Its already up, no point in causing mass confusion now.

Mmm, dessert borderlands.

Fuzzion.2504:

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

You mean 5% of the wvw population that actually liked DBL ?

At least 30% actually. Poll coming up in two weeks. Watch and learn.

they should make a poll about what people dislike about desert borderland, then modify it to fix those dislikes

then maybe people will more happy about the rotations

Btw, I just realize the “No” in the poll still meant for rotation, not really about NOT rotating desert borderland.

Putting it simple, the only “No” to everything is I just want to see the vote.

Ben K.6238:

Fuzzion.2504:

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

You mean 5% of the wvw population that actually liked DBL ?

At least 30% actually. Poll coming up in two weeks. Watch and learn.

5% lmao…. Do you actually talk to people in game or do just assume everyone is just like you. Well enough arguing about the view points of a whole community in which no one knows. The poll will settle this age old question. Then people who don’t agree with the results can qq about how it doesn’t represent the community.

Swagger.1459:

Just wondering, do any of you know why dbl was designed the way it was?

In my eyes DBL was designed to create a more strategic approach to WvW, especially in terms of deployment. In the current maps you can reach every objective in a very short time so there is no incentive to do anything other than forming a big blob and roll from objective to objective. In DBL a smart opponent can make a blob chase one group while the other can cap objectives and thus making a monoblob much less effective and this was especially true before some changes early on, like moving the attacker waypoint from the spawn towers to the keeps which opened up way too much of the map to the attacker just for taking a keep or like downgrading once solid walls to these flimsy barricades, which made towers nearly completely irrelevant in a strategic sense.

If they rotate the Deserted BL back in for 3 months we’ll be back to 50 man q for EB and dust gathering on the BL’s.

Anet need to just man up and admit Deserted BL is a terrible design (or a spare pve map next to Dry Top that didn’t make it) and go back to the drawing board and produce a new beta wvw map using player input. I’m pretty sure if they asked the community to design some they could come up with dozens for Anet to get ideas from . In the meantime, if they have to, bring in one Deserted BL so we can happily ignore it.

Rotate 3 in and I’m back to mainly playing something else until it rotates off again.

I would definitly go for three diffrent borderland maps alpine/desert/X and rotate them through the three realms each day. X can even be a reworked EB and EB completely droped ….

I think its good to keep dbl in rotation ( with some tweaks to the map i hope ).
Would be a shame to see all that work they put in the map vanish like that.Imo get rid of all the automated stuff and bring some objectives a bit closer to each other.I still think the map in design and atmosphere is amazing.

DeWolfe.2174:

insanemaniac.2456:

just say no to this thread.

2-1 abl-dbl is the best possible outcome. anet will consider working on a 3rd map, we can have both maps to play on at all times instead of long periods of time with only a single map type, and the different maps have different advantages which can help shore up the smallest server against the larger servers’ population advantage.

How is having dissimilar maps a “good” thing for balance? All it’ll do is drive players to the Alpine maps and EB. Thus giving free PPT to the Red World.

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

Because the “compromise” appears to be catering to an extremely small percentage of the population. There should have been voting to bring it back at all first. Then vote on the number of instances of maps. Not just sticking us with it, again.

ABL is driving me to only play on EBG, can I come in here and make threads about how boring ABL is for me and people I play with?

I think the votes are going to show the same thing they do now, that players actually like the DBL and the loss of population had much more to do with the months of neglect pre HoT (that you seem to forget was killing WvW populations) than the introduction of DBL.

It will certainly be interesting to read people try to claim the majority is on their side once the votes go the other way.

Amenaza.8346:

Swagger.1459:

Just wondering, do any of you know why dbl was designed the way it was?

As nobody here could actually know this, I will give my educated guess.

Actually, we can. I will sound biased so trying to keep this neutral. But if you want to know where they might have been influenced by, scroll back into these forums to pre-hot and look at the posts that people were placing. They didn’t gather information from polls so that means their most direct source were these forums and reddit. Can’t speak for reddit but a lot of what they did and have done recently were items from those Pre-Hot posts. Reward tracks is a good example, was a recurring issue on the forums at the time. Same with some of the other things we have seen. Will stop there though. But if you are asking this question, your answer lies there. Good hunting!

Shadelang.3012:

“Most players who play wvw” tend to be those who are used to running in a zerg.

Unlike the OP I am not gonna claim I speak for everyone (Who knew you could even DO that on the forums :O).

But me and my friends enjoyed DBL alot more precisely because it didn’t encourage mindless blobbing. It gave us a place to play where we could harass larger groups and actually get away without running cheesy stealth comps (Like stealth condi gank compositions who lead with moa while invis "rolls eyes). Fighting in the oasis and going up the ramps to shoot down at a bypassing group in order to pick people off. Heading behind trees and in side tunnels to come in behind larger groups in order to snipe a few off before they reach your tower.

Using the terrain to your advantage over gimmicks (like kiting in and ABOVE the cliffs near NE camp).

What do I get in EBG and ABL if I don’t want to deal with that? Oh their coming after me in the middle of this flat plain and Im not running a stealth class and there is no terrain that works to my advantage? Well better hide in this tower then.

Oh this hole in the wall is filled to the brim with reflects and there is no way around or ABOVE the enemy that isn’t plastered in aoes or leaves me completely 100% exposed for whenever someone with a higher movement speed decides to chase me down? Well hope I like literally sitting there doing absolutely nothing for 15 minutes until one side or the other gets bored and pushes the other.

As a roamer DBL gave me more options. I liked having those options. Now that I am back in ABL I pretty much abandoned my primary class and playstyle because it simply doesn’t function well with the limited choices I have.

If I sound annoyed in this post its because I am. Im tired of seeing posts claiming to speak for me. I don’t like having to individually speak up every single time someone copy pastes there assumptions. And I don’t want to be counted in the same camp as “Them”. And I don’t like seeing posts that completely ignore the opinions of literally any other human being that plays this games because the poster is some all knowing god who knows EXACTLY why every bad thing in the game has happened ever. And who refuses to even acknowledge the CONCEPT that they might be wrong while pushing others to accept there ideas.

God kitten I get enough of that from the local evangelists that try to convince me the world is only 6 thousand years old.

Very well said, quite how I feel about it.

Justine.6351:

Its already up, no point in causing mass confusion now.

While I agree with you, I also agree with the OP, the way he laid it out is how the poll(s) should have been executed from the beginning. For starters it would have saved time and gotten the resolution faster as well as had smaller likelyhood of people voting differently due to missing or partial information.

SkyShroud.2865:

If BDO wasn’t region blocked for me, I would have went there too. In fact, I have a number of members quit gw2 and playing it via VPN.

Unless you like endless PVE grind, you will not like BDO. I thought it was a pvp game but found out it is more of a PVE game than anything.

Knob.6835:

Ben K.6238:

Fuzzion.2504:

Knob.6835:

I don’t understand how “you people” can’t compromise. Everything has to be your way. There are other people who play this game and do not share your opinion.

You mean 5% of the wvw population that actually liked DBL ?

At least 30% actually. Poll coming up in two weeks. Watch and learn.

5% lmao…. Do you actually talk to people in game or do just assume everyone is just like you. Well enough arguing about the view points of a whole community in which no one knows. The poll will settle this age old question. Then people who don’t agree with the results can qq about how it doesn’t represent the community.

If u guys actually make a poll about alpine vs desert

Trust me u will never ever see desert in the future lol

Majority people agrees alpine > desert hands down

Please add the option: “remove alpine entirely and replace with superior desert”

that would win the poll with huge marginal so wouldnt even need a poll, make it happen.

Why cant we just have both alpine and desert bl?

That would be win-win for everyone.

TallBarr.2184:

Please add the option: “remove alpine entirely and replace with superior desert”

that would win the poll with huge marginal so wouldnt even need a poll, make it happen.

Desert has no chance against alpine at all

just hope anet give us both maps or say good bye to desert forever

Well as much i love dersert BL, desert still needs a few tweak, if they want few effects on they should just add the sandstorm and remove all the others pve’ish map effects.

But alpine is doing nice, the server as have like 8-12 roamming the alpine BL, that will also help defend the towers and castles, and enemy blobs even if we are outmaned quit the map, if they see one defender, wich means more ppt.

Theres is no point of bringing desert BL, if guilds dont even fight in the Alpine BL, they wont do it in the desert BL, all what most wvw players want is free castles to take, wich was what they were expecting by gettings alpine back.

DeWolfe.2174:

I’ve read most of the Polls and subsequent threads. I do not understand why the Dev’s would even consider bringing back the Desert Borderland. That map and the stab changes wrecked our WvW population. More players left to BDO due to that map than anything else. Right now, after the Poll came out about bringing it back, a very high majority of the players in our TS have been very negative about it returning. Where are the Dev’s coming up with the notion that the map is desired or that it’s good for the game mode?

Before anyone mentioned the thread on here to have it returned, the number of unique players in that thread asking for it is pretty low.

I said it too, but apparently it was too direct. I have lost all of my original WvW crew to DBO.

What if Anet shutdown EOTM and add 3 maps per server?

Eotm teaches nothing but bad habits to the future WvW players, they think wvw is all about flipping empty towers and bring 20+ for a camp flip.

Rin of Rivvinda.4971:

Since Tyler Bearce now announced that there will also be a poll about the complete removal of dessert borderlands, I suggest we have a re-poll in which both questions are included in 1 poll. This because the current poll is likely mistaken by many who think that by voting for rotations, they keep dessert borderlands out of the game (which is not the case).

a suggestion for the poll questions:

Just like now, both questions would require a 75% super majority vote

Question 1:
Do you want to completely remove dessert borderlands from the game Yes/No

Question 2, in case dessert borderlands remains in the game, do you want to have rotations (A) or simultaneous borderlands (B,C)

A Rotations ( x weeks 3 dessert borderlands, then x weeks 3 alpine borderlands)

B Simultaneous (1 dessertborderland, 2 alpine borderlands, dessert border is rotated between servers weekly as much as possible)

C Simultaneous (1 alpine borderland, 2 dessert borderlands, alpine border is rotated between servers weekly as much as possible)

Everyone would be forced to answer both questions to cast their vote.

It may be a bit too late for that
But I think your proposition is better for everyone, players and Anet.

Players could really express what they want, and Anet would have a better chance of achieving what Tyler said "We believed that those that were hostile to Desert would be less so if the Mixed Borderlands feature allowed Alpine to live in harmony with Desert, rather than replacing it for 3 months..

Because what I think will happen if we stay with 2 separate polls is :

• rotation will “win” first poll, due to the 75% rule and some people voting “No” meaning “no DBL”
• DBL will stay, because I’m not sure at all that people who don’t want to see that map ever represent more than 75%
• thus we will be stuck with DBL for 3 months, and WvW population will drop again.

NB : I truely regret this topic was merged with the bigger one, as it brings something completely different.

DBL absolutely had its bugs, but the final week of DBL was far better than its first few months. It ended up as a map of comparable quality to ABL. Both maps are imperfect, but I’d rather have both available (6 borderlands) rather than only one or the other.

DBL got a lot of bad press for a bunch of reasons and HoT’s launch was disastrous for WvW for a bunch of reasons too (many of which had nothing to do with DBL).

Legitimate DBL problems included:

• The oasis event was bugged and made the map unplayable.
• The oasis event, even if it functioned properly, was never going to be a viable comeback mechanism.
• Cripple/knockback environmental effects aren’t very fun.
• The map was a pain to traverse as a small group — doubly so before barricades were removed.
• Towers served no strategic purpose.

Those are all fixable and require relatively minor tweaks. The final version of DBL was far better on each of those fronts.

HoT’s launch also brought in a ton of negative elements (many now fixed) that severely damaged WvW but were not inherent to DBL:

• Guild Hall upgrades were a dumpster fire.
  • They were massively expensive.
  • They required navigating a lumpy tech tree.
  • They required considerable real-world time for Aetherium mining.
  • At HoT launch, getting the War Room depended on having the War Room (accessing War Room upgrades required Badges of Tribute, sold through the war room).
  • New and old WvW features were locked away behind Guild Hall upgrades — no guild had +5 supply upgrades until 4+ months after HoT launched.
  • Heavy Supply Bag
  • Etc…
• Scribing was a massive dumpster fire
  • Flax Fiber (Linen Supply sacks originally used 200 Flax Fibers each)
  • Resonating Sliver
  • Just leveling Scribe
  • Seriously…
• Two wvw dailies (master of ruins & veteran creature slayer) were impossible to complete at HoT launch.
• Guild Catapult supply cost went from 25 to 50
• Keeps and towers upgraded fast, even when unattended and without any yaks.
• No autoloot.
• Soulbound Proofs of Heroics clogging up inventory
• Mandatory PvE to unlock elite specializations
• Coalescence of Ruin
• Etc…

That latter list would have hurt WvW participation even if it had accompanied ABL. As things played out, I think DBL got a lot of blame for the many crappy (though now mostly fixed or less significant) set of issues on the second list.

Hesacon.8735:

msalakka.4653:

This is disappointing, because if my server draws the short stick and ends up as the one with the deserted map for the week, I don’t need to log on that week. I am a home border scout, and the desert borderland is undefendable.

This is why the argument over borderlands is silly because I find alpine to be less defensible when the enemy zerg you just wiped can be back at the gate 30 seconds after you wiped it. It’s all how the individual commanders and servers handle to defense and the attack.

Variety is the spice of life, have both at once regardless of it’s 1 desert and 2 alpine or 2 desert and 1 alpine. It also opens the opportunity for a third map later.

It has less to do with dynamics as the simple fact that we rely on EB commanders bringing the zerg to defend keeps from zergs, and on the DBL they flat out refused to come help because people hated playing on the map. On Alpine we get help when we call for it. On DBL we don’t.

I realise that many PvE fanboys in particular have a difficult time accepting the notion that a lot of people hate the DBL.

And yes, I would rather take a break from the game than play on DBL. Did it before, will do so again. That’s how unfun that map is.

Shadelang.3012:

Amenaza.8346:

Shadelang.3012:

Using the terrain to your advantage over gimmicks (like kiting in and ABOVE the cliffs near NE camp).

What do I get in EBG and ABL if I don’t want to deal with that? Oh their coming after me in the middle of this flat plain and Im not running a stealth class and there is no terrain that works to my advantage? Well better hide in this tower then.

Sorry to break it to you, but on EBG and ABL the kind of large group harassment you describe is perfectly possible, even without “cheesy stealth combos”. Ive done this plenty with DH or even vanilla guard, one of the most un-mobile class there is. It already is quite costly (in terms of time and effort) and disadvantageous for a pug zerg to chase roamers like that. Of course there is a risk involved and every roamer thats still left in this game knows that a roaming build worth its salt should have some sort of exit strategy.
What you ask for is the ability as a solo player/small group to severely impede larger groups with impunity, because due to the DBL map design in order to retaliate the enemy would have to run around for half a minute to just get on the same level of elevation as you. Does that sound fair in any shape or form?

Well I have to say you did a pretty good job cherry picking one part of my post to respond to while putting words into my mouth and completely ignoring the purpose of my post.

That part of my post is based off my own experiences. As I stated at the beginning of the post I do NOT claim to speak for any other player except for those I know and play with personally something some other people have not had the courage to do.

If your going to respond to my post. At least have the decency to not pick the one part of the post that was based on personnel opinion and experience. Of COURSE people are going to have different experiences. But choosing only one part of my post to rip at while ignoring the rest (Including as I said before the point of the post) is inherently dishonest on your part. As you take something out of context in order to portray it in a specific fashion to other readers.

I tried to condense the quote to make things more readable. Rest assured, I fully read and understood your point, it was not my intention to build up a strawman. However, I have read it again and still do not see, apart from the rant about posting behaviour at the end, any part of the post where you do not describe issues you are facing because of map design/terrain. Yes, you are describing different scenarios, but in the end it boils down to those issues. If you meant something entirely different, please enlighten me as it must have gone over my head.
My answer to that (while worded harshly and quite personal) is that exactly those additional options the DBL terrain brings are what a lot of people hate about this map, as it allows few players to have even more impact on larger groups which is frustrating on their side. Some might say “well then dont blob up” – i too mostly dislike anything above our guild raid size (15-25) – but in the end the “zergers”, which you imho correctly identified as the majority of players, are more likely to quit than to change their playstyle of choice. Which is what happened (of course there were several other factors at play) and will kill this mode for good if we allow it to happen again.

Also one thing about the “personal experience” part. If you talk about your experiences, there will be people who have other experiences (in this case me) that will refer to yours, more so if those two are opposed and especially if your experiences are the foundation to the argument you are bringing forth.
In case you dont want something to be discussed, dont post it.

TheGrimm.5624:

Amenaza.8346:

Swagger.1459:

Just wondering, do any of you know why dbl was designed the way it was?

As nobody here could actually know this, I will give my educated guess.

Actually, we can. I will sound biased so trying to keep this neutral. But if you want to know where they might have been influenced by, scroll back into these forums to pre-hot and look at the posts that people were placing. They didn’t gather information from polls so that means their most direct source were these forums and reddit. Can’t speak for reddit but a lot of what they did and have done recently were items from those Pre-Hot posts. Reward tracks is a good example, was a recurring issue on the forums at the time. Same with some of the other things we have seen. Will stop there though. But if you are asking this question, your answer lies there. Good hunting!

That is still an educated guess. Knowing would require inside knowledge regarding the design process (aka access to Anets internal communication). Those people who legitimately posess that information are under NDAs and those who do so illegitimately probably wont post here.