Guild Wars 2

People are going to stack where ever but there needs to be a counter measure to player stacking on servers.

Stacking only gets worst and worst because players feel like they need to stack in order to keep up with player attrition.

A player attrition caused by the neglect of your game. All people want are balanced matchups. Thats it. No one asked for siege mastery, siege disablers, eotm, none of it. All of these things while yes adding to the game address none of the problems and some cases you anet you make things worst.

We don’t understand why you don’t know this and fix it.

Pretty much has come to either play in Tier 1 or 2 or suffer the potential consequences of terrible matchups. You may not like that, but it’s the best thing you can do for yourself if you seek balanced matchups on a more consistent basis. Spend the 260+ gold or 20+ USD and be done with it. Three of the top six servers are still open for transfers.

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

You mean adding another map the lower servers don’t have the people to cover? In addition to the already empty maps that are currently in…

ammayhem.5962:

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

You mean adding another map the lower servers don’t have the people to cover? In addition to the already empty maps that are currently in…

The new WvW map is not making a 5th map in the weekly match-ups, it is another “borderland” map, which will begin to rotate the other borderland maps. So each week you will get EBG + 3 borderland maps, and the borderland maps will be a random mix of the OLD BL and the NEW BL. So you can end up with 2 new BL’s and 1 old BL for example.

TLDR: Still 4 maps.

Warlord.9074:

No one asked for siege mastery, siege disablers, eotm, none of it. All of these things while yes adding to the game address none of the problems and some cases you anet you make things worst.

We don’t understand why you don’t know this and fix it.

You are other making claims out of an actual lack of the facts or are intentionally being dishonest.

There were threads upon threads asking for golem master. Added ways to use rank points. The WvW masteries are near precisely what was asked for.

EotM was asked for. It may not be exactly what was asked for, but it fit all of the request. The problem was that people made unspecific complaints like this, asking for an area to play, when in queue or for up levels to get karma and XP.

If you think disablers were not asked for by outmaned servers, then I have no idea what your thinking.

Any way you look at it, I can train a monkey to find 5 threads asking for each aspect your falsly suggesting no one asked for.

By the way, stop with all of this “we” stuff. You do not speak for anyone other then yourself. Stop disingenuously attempting to add weight to your argument by claiming you speak for others when you do not.

All of those stuff were asked for but implemented poorly.

EoTM as a place to hang around while in a queue is fine, but it’s a joke of a map. Pretty but useless to actually play WvW in.

I agree. Balanced matchups.

They have said they made changes with HoT. Hopefully, they have addressed the population/coverage/matchup imbalance.

Golem mastery was asked for as a joke because of all the other masteries.

EotM was not asked for. What was asked for was another WvW map.

Jone I don’t know where you got that info. I don’t think that’s accurate. They couldn’t mix and match new BL’s with old BL’s.

Johje Holan.4607:

Jone I don’t know where you got that info. I don’t think that’s accurate. They couldn’t mix and match new BL’s with old BL’s.

He got it from the detailed explanation they offered. They stated they are making at least 1 and maybe more maps. These maps will rotate in and out on a weekly bases, fully replacing the current map set for a week. If they do implement other maps beyond just the one, then it will be a three week rotation, and so on.

There is no mix and match together. It will be all new maps that will be different then what we have now, but identical in the same fashion. Changing each reset.

Warlord.9074:

We don’t understand why you don’t know this and fix it.

Drop the “we”, would you. Do not assume you speak for me. Do not assume because you have difficulty understanding the situation, that you can claim I have the same fault. Do not lump me in with yourself. Do not pretend you have any right to speak for me.

Hmm, from what I understood, they haven’t specified how they are going to rotate the maps yet. So yes my earlier statement did contain a bit of "guess work" on that part. I suspect that this is one of the things they want to find out during testing of the ExPack, how to solve the rotation.

I for one hope they actually don’t make all 3 BL maps identical each week, I would like to actually go to "the other map" when I want to.

Kuju.2153:

Pretty much has come to either play in Tier 1 or 2 or suffer the potential consequences of terrible matchups. You may not like that, but it’s the best thing you can do for yourself if you seek balanced matchups on a more consistent basis. Spend the 260+ gold or 20+ USD and be done with it. Three of the top six servers are still open for transfers.

Umm, or you enjoy outmanned fights and come to Kaineng. Even than, we haven’t had lop-sided matchups for MONTHS. We may not have the numbers, we may not have the coverage, but we can fight outmanned, defend outmanned, and take ANYTHING that isn T3 It would do you all who think the lower tiers are bad to come down to here and see how fun it is (SF is the only server I know that cannot do anything Best of luck to you SF, love 1v1 or 2ing your roamed, you have some high caliber players like Kaineng, just not the same number of them)

joneirikb.7506:

The new WvW map is not making a 5th map in the weekly match-ups, it is another “borderland” map, which will begin to rotate the other borderland maps. So each week you will get EBG + 3 borderland maps, and the borderland maps will be a random mix of the OLD BL and the NEW BL. So you can end up with 2 new BL’s and 1 old BL for example.

TLDR: Still 4 maps.

Yeah, I was reading about that right after I made the post. I need to stop opening up so many tabs at once. xD

joneirikb.7506:

ammayhem.5962:

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

You mean adding another map the lower servers don’t have the people to cover? In addition to the already empty maps that are currently in…

The new WvW map is not making a 5th map in the weekly match-ups, it is another “borderland” map, which will begin to rotate the other borderland maps. So each week you will get EBG + 3 borderland maps, and the borderland maps will be a random mix of the OLD BL and the NEW BL. So you can end up with 2 new BL’s and 1 old BL for example.

TLDR: Still 4 maps.

That would be stupid. You would end up with the new BL with 200+ people queues and noone wanting to play on the older BLs.

AFAIK, they don’t know yet how they will rotate de BLs nor how they will introduce the new BL to the already existent maps.

Yeah they have not decided yet how they will rotate the maps, but I think it’s pretty safe bet that they won’t be adding more than 4 maps at a time. Population is stretched as it is, although I’m also willing to bet there will be no population problems when the xpac launches (if you don’t count long queues as such).

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

All the changes that have many of the biggest guilds and commanders shopping for other games already, not to mention the updates will be completely anti roamer?
SO they will essentially run off major wvw guilds and the roamers and havocs with one update and being anti new player due to account binding wvw seige pt settings like you need flame mastery on a warrior not an Ele but it is going to apply to them all the same? Great… sounds wonderful. I really just do not want to see all these guilds leave over this and am hoping Anet really understands what is happening here.

SO I come into game in the morning yesterday when .. people are talking about possibly leaving GW2 in Primary map TS channels… come back later at 7 pm different people different time zone.. people are talking about leaving GW2 and sharing different game links for ideas. That isn’t what is supposed to be happening when a game announces an update.

The update sounds very linear and like EoTM like.. that is why they are already looking for new games. Choke holds to access map sounds like kill box it so no one can pass. Truth is, Defense as it is isn’t difficult, it is easier to defend than to cap. The REASON they do not defend on EoTM is they do not take the map seriously and use it to Ktrain the Level farm. Trying to force people to play a map type they do not care to play does not make them play it, it makes them look for a new game. What players that are shopping for other games now want to hear is in the update?

1) A real GVG system that supports larger battles, like at least 20 vs 20 and 40 vs 40, preferably support for higher numbers with many maps to choose from. Guild wars needs actual guild wars, not some skirmishes. It is sad that you can actually have guild wars in many other games but not in Guild Wars.

2)Rewarding players for defense= GIVE THEM XP, A CHEST AND LOOT FOR DEFENDING. They want the same rewards for capping to make it worth their time. They don’t defend because they get chests and XP for K training, not because it was hard to do, in fact defending is boring because it is so easy to do. It is terribly easy to do and you need far less people to defend a tower or a keep than you need to take it already. Sounds like Anet completely missed the point on this. You can defend a tower/ keep against 10-20 people with just one or two people as it is if you know what you are doing. Making it easier to defend just means making it more boring and less unpredictable. It is better not knowing where your enemy is going to atack or what and can be attacked from all sides not " have to go this direction only because the cliffs create linear tunnels or chokepoints created due to landscape" Why even play when it is predictable? Predictable is boring.

3)Most of what people wanted in wvw updates was to repair broken mechanics, fix exploits and hacks, get rid of zoom hackers once and for all.. They want what needed to be repaired to finally be repaired. Outside of that, adding new seige, things like guild golems, adding new toys for people to play with in wvw and adding better battlefield maps similar to EBG where targets can be attacked from any direction unpredictably in any order raising the level of game play rather than making a predictable choke point kill box that means you know the fight is going to be there, and you know exactly how to defend it.. * yawn* Being able to do the unpredictable and use creative commanding in the game is what the players want, not have their hands held for attacking and defending.

4)Making combat more exciting in wvw means being able to have tools and resources to utilize for creative commanding, using portal bombs to come up behind an enemy for example, adds additional level of excitement and entertainment for a battle that would otherwise be lacking if it did not exist, what many of the veteran wvw players want is more tools like that to use in battle to make the actual battle more entertaining, not adding pve content or making the landscape where people die from falling more often than they do at another players hands. They want more action and less time getting to it and to be able to have tools available to use to make it interesting and fun. This can be new types of seige, weapons, skills that work different than what currently exists.

From everything we have heard thus far, this update isn’t doing that at all. that is why people are looking at other games now because they feel as though no one listened to what they wanted. Wvw players ALSo need better loot, because they spend a ton on seige and influence to play wvw and do not make enough to support that in wvw alone. Wvw should be self sustaining and should not have to go pve to enjoy it.

Johje Holan.4607:

EotM was not asked for. What was asked for was another WvW map.

The funny thing about the EOTM map now is that originally it was brought in as a queue map, but thanks to the neglect WvW has received, so so many players have stopped playing that the only ones who get big queues are T1 and server who cna only win by running in one big zerg!

The original use for EOTM is no longer required; until the release of HOT of course, but then depending on how good or how bad they have finally updated WvW, it may not last long.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Johje Holan.4607:

EotM was not asked for. What was asked for was another WvW map.

The funny thing about the EOTM map now is that originally it was brought in as a queue map, but thanks to the neglect WvW has received, so so many players have stopped playing that the only ones who get big queues are T1 and server who cna only win by running in one big zerg!

The original use for EOTM is no longer required; until the release of HOT of course, but then depending on how good or how bad they have finally updated WvW, it may not last long.

If you’ve seen some of the queues the top 6 servers gets, with the exception of Jade Quarry, you’ll see that EoTM is still very much needed as a waiting room. Obsidian sanctum simply isn’t entertaining enough while waiting for queue :x

These topics make me depressed.

I don’t want my server to end up t1.
Because of all these cry baby’s who say they will quit because of something they know only 1% about.

Stay or go. make up your mind.

Anet has done a lot.
the majority of the community has asked for things and they replied.
Maybe not how the majority of the community had in mind.
But they did mostly what people asked them.

But asking for something comes with a price you might not like what you get.

And for god sake stop speaking for everyone. There are people who don’t have the same opinion as you and saying the Community wants this.

Reverence.6915:

If you’ve seen some of the queues the top 6 servers gets, with the exception of Jade Quarry, you’ll see that EoTM is still very much needed as a waiting room. Obsidian sanctum simply isn’t entertaining enough while waiting for queue :x

And if you read my post I did mention T1 servers.

Every time classes or items are updated that also an update for wvw. That the point of an open pvp map much like wvw PvE plays a big part in how ppl build and even play.
Wvw not been neglected you just do not like what has been changed.

Oddly its only T3 that the problem the lower T worlds are stable they just have no off time presents (you simply cant force ppl to play when you do not want to). T2 is 4 worlds atm and T1 is never changing BUT its a endless fight what you should be looking for in a WvW game.

From a real view point that WvW is still populated even after other RvR games have come out shows that yes it IS sustainable at this level.

Seems like a rather silly timing for this thread, since we have rather recently gotten confirmation that we will get a new map and other big changes go WvW rather soon.

lordkrall.7241:

Seems like a rather silly timing for this thread, since we have rather recently gotten confirmation that we will get a new map and other big changes go WvW rather soon.

From what we have heard of the changes, they are part of the problem, not the solution.

"lil devils x.6071"

...

Regarding the new map and the killbox idea, we haven’t seen it yet, but I would rather guess that it means that you have to take a TOWER in order to get access to a KEEP’s door. Not a complete block of the BL’s Spawn. That would be rather silly, and I do have confidence in ANet to not make that kind of silly mistakes. As said, we don’t know yet, either or any way at all. But it makes the most sense that they use towers as restrictions to get to the actual KEEPs. So hold your horses and don’t sell the eggs before they’re hatched etc.

And just because they said that the map will include more use of heights etc, does not mean EotM style you trip -> you die. And I personally think that a map with lots of small heights that can be used tactically in combat, would be great fun! It is something I’ve wished to see more of, that would encourage some new strategies. If all the heights are roughly the height of a keep wall, you’ll only get some minor fall damage, and just have to run around to get back into the action again. Tactical!

(1) So far we haven’t been told the actual player numbers in Stronghold, it might end up actually being larger than 5vs5, who knows (well, ANet). So until they announce this there is no point arguing on this point.

(2) Do agree on giving rewards on defence, anyone willing to defend deserves to be rewarded!

(3) If ANet gave out an expansion pack with nothing but bug fixes, they would be lynched :p Also bug fixes is the task of the support, not of the expansion pack devs. Now I absolutely think they should put some more people on the support section to get things fixed faster, but that is their choice and their business.

And I personally think that more WXP traits and siege variations of the same (like guild golem) is just silly toys we get tired of in a couple of days anyways. Would much rather see them actually come up with some new features and even *gasp* maps, every now and then.

Also, we already have EBG, and I still don’t like it. I think it is good that they make more different maps, instead of creating just more of the same, encourage more variation, new strategies, different styles of play.

(4) Ironically, I think that the new BL with the bust the towers to get to the keeps will actually get you lot of what you asked for here. People will (most likely) be defending the towers better, and when it falls fall back to the keeps, and you can end up having battles between tower/keep, where group tactics, proper siege use etc will be very important. It will telegraph over the map and get people running to defend in no time, since losing one tower, could spell losing half the map pretty quickly.

And just to be contrary: We do actually get new weapons and skills... (specialization for each class) heck we even get a new class...

(*) Do agree that we really should be able to be self sustaining in WvW

On the whole I don’t really disagree with a lot of what you say, but just don’t like the way you say it as if "we" as in everyone wants exactly what you say, and there are quite a few people on these forums that dislike that people try to talk for them. I think that many would like what you suggest, probably a whole lot of the existing upper tiers, but that doesn’t mean everyone does.

It is fun reading your posts though, so thanks

joneirikb.7506:

lil devils x.6071”

…

Regarding the new map and the killbox idea, we haven’t seen it yet, but I would rather guess that it means that you have to take a TOWER in order to get access to a KEEP’s door. Not a complete block of the BL’s Spawn. That would be rather silly, and I do have confidence in ANet to not make that kind of silly mistakes. As said, we don’t know yet, either or any way at all. But it makes the most sense that they use towers as restrictions to get to the actual KEEPs. So hold your horses and don’t sell the eggs before they’re hatched etc.

And just because they said that the map will include more use of heights etc, does not mean EotM style you trip -> you die. And I personally think that a map with lots of small heights that can be used tactically in combat, would be great fun! It is something I’ve wished to see more of, that would encourage some new strategies. If all the heights are roughly the height of a keep wall, you’ll only get some minor fall damage, and just have to run around to get back into the action again. Tactical!

(1) So far we haven’t been told the actual player numbers in Stronghold, it might end up actually being larger than 5vs5, who knows (well, ANet). So until they announce this there is no point arguing on this point.

(2) Do agree on giving rewards on defence, anyone willing to defend deserves to be rewarded!

(3) If ANet gave out an expansion pack with nothing but bug fixes, they would be lynched :p Also bug fixes is the task of the support, not of the expansion pack devs. Now I absolutely think they should put some more people on the support section to get things fixed faster, but that is their choice and their business.

And I personally think that more WXP traits and siege variations of the same (like guild golem) is just silly toys we get tired of in a couple of days anyways. Would much rather see them actually come up with some new features and even gasp maps, every now and then.

Also, we already have EBG, and I still don’t like it. I think it is good that they make more different maps, instead of creating just more of the same, encourage more variation, new strategies, different styles of play.

(4) Ironically, I think that the new BL with the bust the towers to get to the keeps will actually get you lot of what you asked for here. People will (most likely) be defending the towers better, and when it falls fall back to the keeps, and you can end up having battles between tower/keep, where group tactics, proper siege use etc will be very important. It will telegraph over the map and get people running to defend in no time, since losing one tower, could spell losing half the map pretty quickly.

And just to be contrary: We do actually get new weapons and skills… (specialization for each class) heck we even get a new class…

(*) Do agree that we really should be able to be self sustaining in WvW

On the whole I don’t really disagree with a lot of what you say, but just don’t like the way you say it as if “we” as in everyone wants exactly what you say, and there are quite a few people on these forums that dislike that people try to talk for them. I think that many would like what you suggest, probably a whole lot of the existing upper tiers, but that doesn’t mean everyone does.

It is fun reading your posts though, so thanks

Truth is I am indifferent to some of what is on that list personally, however, I would not stay if the people I enjoy playing with left as well. I am relaying what I have been told by groups of people on a T1 server, and then having friends from lower tiers telling me the same thing.. so it wasn’t exactly a small amount of people involved here. So far from the interviews they have given on the subject, it isn’t giving much confidence many wvw players are going to be content with it.

When we heard we are getting wvw updates everyone cheered… until they started talking more. Then I come back and everyone is exchanging new game links instead.

lil devils x.6071:

All the changes that have many of the biggest guilds and commanders shopping for other games already, not to mention the updates will be completely anti roamer?

I am a commander in a large WvW guild. Since you disingenuously claim to speak for so many commanders and apparently entire guilds, would you mind listing those commanders and guilds please? I have not heard this, nor heard of them asking you to represent them. Please educate me.

As well, I am not privy to the details of how the update will fully effect WvW. As you appear to claim to know information not yet released, please enlighten me.

coglin.1867:

lil devils x.6071:

All the changes that have many of the biggest guilds and commanders shopping for other games already, not to mention the updates will be completely anti roamer?

I am a commander in a large WvW guild. Since you disingenuously claim to speak for so many commanders and apparently entire guilds, would you mind listing those commanders and guilds please? I have not heard this, nor heard of them asking you to represent them. Please educate me.

As well, I am not privy to the details of how the update will fully effect WvW. As you appear to claim to know information not yet released, please enlighten me.

I do not speak for you, I am talking about what was discussed among friends on TeamSpeak on a tier 1 server, and no you are not entitled to know who said what unless you were there or they feel like discussing it with you. Yes, many have expressed dissatisfaction, in my guilds and in other guilds on the server and if they wish to speak for themselves they are free to do so. If you were not one of the people talking, I am obliviously not discussing what you have to say. I am a leader and commander as well, that does not suddenly entitle me to information on your friends either. LOL

Have you bothered to read the interviews?

http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-interview/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/interview/gw2-heart-thorns-interview-mike-o%E2%80%99brien-and-colin-johanson

I see. So your claiming to speak for other’s, yet avoiding any proof. Got it. Being a commander, from a large T1 server guild myself, I feel it might be wise to simply discuss your own opinion, instead of trying to add false weight to it by claiming you speak for others. This is a great place to state your opinion, and discuss it. As well, it is a great place for others to post their opinion, and discuss it. It probably isn’t the best place to claim what other people’s opinions are, and try to create an artificial discussion.

coglin.1867:

I see. So your claiming to speak for other’s, yet avoiding any proof. Got it. Being a commander, from a large T1 server guild myself, I feel it might be wise to simply discuss your own opinion, instead of trying to add false weight to it by claiming you speak for others. This is a great place to state your opinion, and discuss it. As well, it is a great place for others to post their opinion, and discuss it. It probably isn’t the best place to claim what other people’s opinions are, and try to create an artificial discussion.

Actually I am not even discussing only my opinions here, I am discussion what others brought up, only part of which I agree with and of course I am not going to go around discussing who said what from a private conversation on public forums, and to even ask someone to do such is absurd.

If you wish to know what people think, maybe you should ask around yourself and pay attention to what people say and you might come across opinions that differ from your own. I do not want my friends and guilds that I enjoy playing with to leave this game due to stale / poor content and that is why I am here. I am not going to go ask all 50 people that were in channel to come post on the forums silly, and the fact that you think you are entitled to tell people to do so , and make unfounded accusations against people you have not even met speaks volumes of your own character.

It appears you are too focused on how you see things to allow for open discussion, without actually discussing the points made you are choosing to attack and make false accusations against someone you have never met. I am well known on the servers I have played and currently play on and am an active member of the wvw community. I would not make false claims about a game, and to suggest such is immature and ignorant. I actually play this game with my real family and friends,have many friends from many servers on this game who know me and if they choose to post on forums that is their prerogative to do so, not your decision to make for them.

When I have people I enjoy playing with tell me they are leaving unless This game gets real GVG ( like 40 vs 40) and I have people I enjoy playing with tell me they are leaving if they put a stupid EoTM maps in WVW, I am not going to wait around for them to come to forums to talk about it, I am going to speak up and hope Anet hears before it comes to that. However, you think we should just wait around for them to post themselves, and make false unfounded accusations against people who have done you no wrong. That, sir, is uncalled for and terribly inappropriate.

If you wish to address the actual content of what I stated, rather than attempt to attack my character, we can have a discussion, but if you wish to attack my character, I bid you good day. You can rightly kitten off.

FYI- There are MANY T1 commanders, but very few good ones. If you don’t want creative commanding in game and more cool toys like portal bombs.. you would not be considered a good one.

I don’t think you understand what your reading. No one is attacking your opinion. It seems to me that folks are taking issue with you claiming to speak for others. For all anyone knows, you are fabricating other players opunions. It is entirely reasonable for you to limit yourself to speaking solely for yourself. If others have opinions, allow them to voice them.

I enjoy WvW and untill they detail the specifics, and more likely, after I try the open beta, I will make decisions based on my experiences. My T1 server mates that I talk to, and my guild have left me with the impression that they feel the same. This is simply my feel of it though. I do not claim to speak for them. They are capable of doing that themselves. Just like the folks you claim to speak for.

You guys found the expansion patchtnotes regarding WvW somewhere? /s

butch.8136:

You guys found the expansion patchtnotes regarding WvW somewhere? /s

No. That is part of the provlem as I see it. Certain posters are being too presumptuous in that respect as well as pressuming they speak for more then themselves.

dancingmonkey.4902:

butch.8136:

You guys found the expansion patchtnotes regarding WvW somewhere? /s

No. That is part of the provlem as I see it. Certain posters are being too presumptuous in that respect as well as pressuming they speak for more then themselves.

No, we are just responding to what they stated here:
http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-interview/
http://www.tentonhammer.com/interview/gw2-heart-thorns-interview-mike-o%E2%80%99brien-and-colin-johanson

dancingmonkey.4902:

I don’t think you understand what your reading. No one is attacking your opinion. It seems to me that folks are taking issue with you claiming to speak for others. For all anyone knows, you are fabricating other players opunions. It is entirely reasonable for you to limit yourself to speaking solely for yourself. If others have opinions, allow them to voice them.

I enjoy WvW and untill they detail the specifics, and more likely, after I try the open beta, I will make decisions based on my experiences. My T1 server mates that I talk to, and my guild have left me with the impression that they feel the same. This is simply my feel of it though. I do not claim to speak for them. They are capable of doing that themselves. Just like the folks you claim to speak for.

IF you have a conversation in a server channel, are you going to go ask every single person in that conversation to go post what they said simply because some guy on the internet wants to call you a liar? No that is immature and pointless. That is an attack on my character, as it is calling me a liar. I do not appreciate being called a liar, nor do I feel I have anything to prove. That is just a personal attack rather than addressing the content of what was posted.

“All people want are balanced matchups. "

Just look what happened now in T2~T3. Thank you Anet for the balanced matchups!

coglin.1867:

Warlord.9074:

No one asked for siege mastery, siege disablers, eotm, none of it. All of these things while yes adding to the game address none of the problems and some cases you anet you make things worst.

We don’t understand why you don’t know this and fix it.

You are other making claims out of an actual lack of the facts or are intentionally being dishonest.

There were threads upon threads asking for golem master. Added ways to use rank points. The WvW masteries are near precisely what was asked for.

EotM was asked for. It may not be exactly what was asked for, but it fit all of the request. The problem was that people made unspecific complaints like this, asking for an area to play, when in queue or for up levels to get karma and XP.

If you think disablers were not asked for by outmaned servers, then I have no idea what your thinking.

Any way you look at it, I can train a monkey to find 5 threads asking for each aspect your falsly suggesting no one asked for.

By the way, stop with all of this “we” stuff. You do not speak for anyone other then yourself. Stop disingenuously attempting to add weight to your argument by claiming you speak for others when you do not.

5 threads of each of the things you mentioned is nothing compared with almost all WvW players asking for a balance in scoring system and a way to avoid the population be the major fact in terms of scoring. Maybe golem mastery was asked by some people, balance was asked by far more and more people, and it is much more needed than the golem mastery in the game.

No one is suggesting that posters are not asking for that.

I was simply responding the the incorrect claims that stated that no one asked for other things, that the poster listed. those were things beyond the players bases control. We asked for them and we received them. Imbalance was created by the player base. More people stopped playing WvW on some servers then others. In other cases, players band wagoned to servers that were winning. In yet more cases, player made friends in PvE or joined guilds from PvE, that they wanted to play with when they do WvW and they transferred to be with them.

By no means to I feel WvW has been neglected in the way some are claiming. Sure, it doesn’t get the attention that PvE gets, but PvE also has a vast amount more players then WvW does. So I can understand its greater attention. On the other hand, every other day, a thread crying that the sky is falling and WvW is going to die if the OP of said thread does not get what they want. I see daily queues on my maps, often all four of them, that prove the folks making threads like this were wrong over two years ago. So I hardly think there are any immediate fears. Particularly given that an expansion is coming. One that could possibly restructure WvW, or how the server systems work, or remove servers all together.

People stack because they want those massive blob keep fights, or that they care about PPT and do not want to be the only people working toward it (or having no off hours presence).

Lopsided matches happen in T3, because everyone hops to T1/T2 not T3. Also, the servers in the top 7, all actively recruit, offer assistance to move guilds to their servers, etc, etc. They even actively recruit guilds off of the servers they face.

The lower tier servers have better matches, most the time, and the only tier that is truly broken is t3. Also, the RNG system is better than what used to exist, with you only facing the same server in your tier, and movement between tiers was very slow. A lot of stale matches then.

And to the person who suggested to remove servers altogether, then just play EoTM, your problem is solved. WvW is Server vs Server, which would be pointless without servers. There are not factions in the game.

What really needs done, is to merge about 6 low pop servers, offer free transfers off, and let them go where they want to go. But, those people like their servers, or like the play style down there. Not everyone wants to go 24/7 like T1/T2. It is a hard position for Anet, because there are still thousands of players outside of T1/T2, that they need to satisfy.

Andrew Clear.1750:

everyone hops to T1/T2 not T3.

I truly believe it is also a direct result of the Gold/Silver tournament divisions. No one between T2/3 wants to end up locked into Silver.

joneirikb.7506:

ammayhem.5962:

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

You mean adding another map the lower servers don’t have the people to cover? In addition to the already empty maps that are currently in…

The new WvW map is not making a 5th map in the weekly match-ups, it is another “borderland” map, which will begin to rotate the other borderland maps. So each week you will get EBG + 3 borderland maps, and the borderland maps will be a random mix of the OLD BL and the NEW BL. So you can end up with 2 new BL’s and 1 old BL for example.

TLDR: Still 4 maps.

Which will still mean three mostly empty maps while everyone queues for EB.

A recent interview with Colin really concerned me about the future for WvW. A new map is fantastic but WvW has much bigger problems than a stale map atm.

Colin was talking up all the fun design feature of the new map, how holding objectives was more meaningful and ArenaNet had focused more on making defence matter but the biggest problem with defending has always been rewards. PvDoor is more rewarding that defending unless bad zergs are playing bag delivery simulator. When specifically asked about the rewards for defending Colin’s reaction was almost as if he hadn’t even considered it a big problem – he certainly didn’t indicate they had been actively looking at how to make defence more rewarding.

It really feels like ArenaNet are out of touch with the biggest issues facing WvW atm. Server stacking is bleeding lower tier servers dry. The instability of servers, the rise and fall of bandwagons – these things are tearing guilds apart. When half the guild transfers (around 250g atm) the other half is left behind, tearing apart the community these players had grown to love. WvW is about community and the current tier system, the instability of servers and the decreasing population is very hostile to maintaining a healthy guild and server community unless you make a safe bet on a T1 server.

Already we are seeing a situation where OCX/SEA/EU guilds on NA servers are basically forced to transfer to T1 servers or risky T2 servers if they want to actually play against anyone and have a decent chance to recruit. Think about that for a minute. When they do transfer, some of their members stay behind (can’t afford to, want to remain with friends, the new server is their racial enemy etc) and that pushes people away from GW2.

WvW doesn’t need a new map as badly as it needs some kind of solutions to population problems facing servers, the inability for non-NA guilds to get fights outside of two tiers and the fact that you can map maps as strategic as you want, rewards are the only incentive that will mater.

Shiren.9532:

joneirikb.7506:

ammayhem.5962:

coglin.1867:

Neglect? Like all of the changes coming up in the expansion?

You mean adding another map the lower servers don’t have the people to cover? In addition to the already empty maps that are currently in…

The new WvW map is not making a 5th map in the weekly match-ups, it is another “borderland” map, which will begin to rotate the other borderland maps. So each week you will get EBG + 3 borderland maps, and the borderland maps will be a random mix of the OLD BL and the NEW BL. So you can end up with 2 new BL’s and 1 old BL for example.

TLDR: Still 4 maps.

Which will still mean three mostly empty maps while everyone queues for EB.

A recent interview with Colin really concerned me about the future for WvW. A new map is fantastic but WvW has much bigger problems than a stale map atm.

Colin was talking up all the fun design feature of the new map, how holding objectives was more meaningful and ArenaNet had focused more on making defence matter but the biggest problem with defending has always been rewards. PvDoor is more rewarding that defending unless bad zergs are playing bag delivery simulator. When specifically asked about the rewards for defending Colin’s reaction was almost as if he hadn’t even considered it a big problem – he certainly didn’t indicate they had been actively looking at how to make defence more rewarding.

It really feels like ArenaNet are out of touch with the biggest issues facing WvW atm. Server stacking is bleeding lower tier servers dry. The instability of servers, the rise and fall of bandwagons – these things are tearing guilds apart. When half the guild transfers (around 250g atm) the other half is left behind, tearing apart the community these players had grown to love. WvW is about community and the current tier system, the instability of servers and the decreasing population is very hostile to maintaining a healthy guild and server community unless you make a safe bet on a T1 server.

Already we are seeing a situation where OCX/SEA/EU guilds on NA servers are basically forced to transfer to T1 servers or risky T2 servers if they want to actually play against anyone and have a decent chance to recruit. Think about that for a minute. When they do transfer, some of their members stay behind (can’t afford to, want to remain with friends, the new server is their racial enemy etc) and that pushes people away from GW2.

WvW doesn’t need a new map as badly as it needs some kind of solutions to population problems facing servers, the inability for non-NA guilds to get fights outside of two tiers and the fact that you can map maps as strategic as you want, rewards are the only incentive that will mater.

That is why they need to make more maps like EBG, and resolve the issues with the borderlands. The problem is though the maps they are trying to fix the borderlands with will only make less people want to go to it instead of more if it is as linear( choke point to access map), and with " treacherous heights and traps" as their interviews suggest thus far. If they resolve the problem with the borderlands maps, and have more maps that are as enjoyable as EBG, then it will resolve the problem. Even low pop servers have everyone trying to go to EBG. If they had more than one map as enjoyable as EBG. They would be able to spread the population out on the different EBG style maps instead of have people who would rather sit in que for EBG while standing in Lions arch than go to a BL.

Honestly though, for the low population issues with NA, I do not see that being resolved unless they basically destroy all but 6 servers and add more maps to handle the population, since NA only has 24/7 coverage on 6 servers. IT is a player issue, or rather a lack there of, that causes the imbalance. They cannot force people to play, if there are not enough players there, there are just not enough players.

IF they only had say 6 wvw servers, then they added and withdrew maps according to population times to handle the ques, it could solve the problem. They could have more maps during high population times, then take those maps away during low population times it would be much more balanced, and little to no ques.

Reverence.6915:

All of those stuff were asked for but implemented poorly.

EoTM as a place to hang around while in a queue is fine, but it’s a joke of a map. Pretty but useless to actually play WvW in.

We (players) made eotm a joke of a map. Take a guild in there looking for fights and you get screamed at by your own side for screwing up the rotation. Kill an enemy blob, and people quit the instance in search of one where they can karma train in peace.

Seriously, anet just needs to combine the populations of tiers 4 – 8 into one alliance for wvw and get it over with.

"lil devils x.6071"

That is why they need to make more maps like EBG, and resolve the issues with the borderlands. The problem is though the maps they are trying to fix the borderlands with will only make less people want to go to it instead of more if it is as linear( choke point to access map), and with " treacherous heights and traps" as their interviews suggest thus far. If they resolve the problem with the borderlands maps, and have more maps that are as enjoyable as EBG, then it will resolve the problem. Even low pop servers have everyone trying to go to EBG. If they had more than one map as enjoyable as EBG. They would be able to spread the population out on the different EBG style maps instead of have people who would rather sit in que for EBG while standing in Lions arch than go to a BL.

* We don’t know if it is more linear or not until we see HOW they have solved the tower->keep design and mechanics.
* We don’t know how the new heights and defensive mechanics will interact with the play style until we see the map and play on it.
* Not everyone find EBG the best, or only fun map. Entire guilds dedicate themselves to Borderlands.
* And nope, I can guarantee you that low tier servers does not ignore BL’s and only run EBG. At least no server I’ve ever played against (All of bronze save Maguuma, and half of silver).
* And those few that does refuse to go to BL’s, doesn’t bother stand in LA, they go roaming, patrolling, capturing, or defend things in EBG. Lower tiers is roaming territory.

"lil devils x.6071"

Honestly though, for the low population issues with NA, I do not see that being resolved unless they basically destroy all but 6 servers and add more maps to handle the population, since NA only has 24/7 coverage on 6 servers. IT is a player issue, or rather a lack there of, that causes the imbalance. They cannot force people to play, if there are not enough players there, there are just not enough players.

The problem is NOT that there isn’t enough players. The problem is that there are not enough players at all times of the day. The problem is PPT/Points and Coverage/Timezones, and this CAN NOT be solved by destroying servers. UNLESS you create so much quest that people aren’t allowed to play in NA Prime. That for one, would make me move back to EU server.

"lil devils x.6071"

IF they only had say 6 wvw servers, then they added and withdrew maps according to population times to handle the ques, it could solve the problem. They could have more maps during high population times, then take those maps away during low population times it would be much more balanced, and little to no ques.

Except for the whole 6 servers part, this is an interesting idea. Change the amount of maps to the amount of players. There are some problems with this:

* If you remove 1 Borderland it becomes very unfair, so you would need to remove ALL 3 borderlands at the same time.
* What happens with ownership, upgrades and PPT on borderlands ?
* How do you kick players ?
* How do you open them up again ?
* How long timers/safety margins are these builds around ?
* How does PPT change with the different amount of maps ?

(Note, ALL numbers are just examples I took out of my head on the fly)

With the current maps, I think that if the population falls under a certain number, removing all 3 borderlands by Freezing them, give a 15 minutes warning, after that just freeze them out, no PPT etc, and you can’t enter them except for your home map for the services at citadel. But put everything on RI or otherwise non-capture-able. When the numbers is large enough that you’re close to get a que on EBG again, open them up again.

If the numbers are large enough that you can start queing 3 maps, then open another copy of EBG. And keep it up until you no longer have the total number to fill more than 2 or 3 maps.

When maps are closed down, give a 15 minutes warning, then forcefully move them out of the map to another map, enemy BL to friendly BL, EBG" into EBG unless to many then select BL to go to.

Let us say that it counts the average over an hours period to decide if it needs more or less maps, to avoid sudden spikes or mass leaving the map (still game-able somewhat).

And since I have no idea how the current Glicko system counts the PPT points, just use percentages of the PPT to affect the glicko.

If we moved away from the "home map" system, this would be much easier, as we didn’t have to worry about the equality of home BL’s, and could just add or remove single maps as needed.

*

Also, please stop Blanket Stating.

joneirikb.7506:

lil devils x.6071”

That is why they need to make more maps like EBG, and resolve the issues with the borderlands. The problem is though the maps they are trying to fix the borderlands with will only make less people want to go to it instead of more if it is as linear( choke point to access map), and with " treacherous heights and traps" as their interviews suggest thus far. If they resolve the problem with the borderlands maps, and have more maps that are as enjoyable as EBG, then it will resolve the problem. Even low pop servers have everyone trying to go to EBG. If they had more than one map as enjoyable as EBG. They would be able to spread the population out on the different EBG style maps instead of have people who would rather sit in que for EBG while standing in Lions arch than go to a BL.

Snipped for length

lil devils x.6071”

Honestly though, for the low population issues with NA, I do not see that being resolved unless they basically destroy all but 6 servers and add more maps to handle the population, since NA only has 24/7 coverage on 6 servers. IT is a player issue, or rather a lack there of, that causes the imbalance. They cannot force people to play, if there are not enough players there, there are just not enough players.

The problem is NOT that there isn’t enough players. The problem is that there are not enough players at all times of the day. The problem is PPT/Points and Coverage/Timezones, and this CAN NOT be solved by destroying servers. UNLESS you create so much quest that people aren’t allowed to play in NA Prime. That for one, would make me move back to EU server.

lil devils x.6071”

IF they only had say 6 wvw servers, then they added and withdrew maps according to population times to handle the ques, it could solve the problem. They could have more maps during high population times, then take those maps away during low population times it would be much more balanced, and little to no ques.

Except for the whole 6 servers part, this is an interesting idea. Change the amount of maps to the amount of players. There are some problems with this:

• If you remove 1 Borderland it becomes very unfair, so you would need to remove ALL 3 borderlands at the same time.
• What happens with ownership, upgrades and PPT on borderlands ?
• How do you kick players ?
• How do you open them up again ?
• How long timers/safety margins are these builds around ?
• How does PPT change with the different amount of maps ?

(Note, ALL numbers are just examples I took out of my head on the fly)

With the current maps, I think that if the population falls under a certain number, removing all 3 borderlands by Freezing them, give a 15 minutes warning, after that just freeze them out, no PPT etc, and you can’t enter them except for your home map for the services at citadel. But put everything on RI or otherwise non-capture-able. When the numbers is large enough that you’re close to get a que on EBG again, open them up again.

If the numbers are large enough that you can start queing 3 maps, then open another copy of EBG. And keep it up until you no longer have the total number to fill more than 2 or 3 maps.

When maps are closed down, give a 15 minutes warning, then forcefully move them out of the map to another map, enemy BL to friendly BL, EBG" into EBG unless to many then select BL to go to.

Let us say that it counts the average over an hours period to decide if it needs more or less maps, to avoid sudden spikes or mass leaving the map (still game-able somewhat).

And since I have no idea how the current Glicko system counts the PPT points, just use percentages of the PPT to affect the glicko.

If we moved away from the “home map” system, this would be much easier, as we didn’t have to worry about the equality of home BL’s, and could just add or remove single maps as needed.

*

Also, please stop Blanket Stating.

I was addressing the issues being brought up in his post, EBG is the most popular map, and runs the highest ques among ALL servers. That does not mean that people do not run on BL, that just means that MORE people run on EBG. This is a fact of the game. Less people run on the other maps, if they want to have less people in que, they need to have more maps like EBG or they will still be sitting in que for EBG. Making other types of maps does not resolve the issue of the majority of players wanting to play on EBG.

EoTM IS a testing ground for what they want to implement in wvw.. so yea we do have an idea of how this works. From the information they have provided in the interviews and what they have tested in the EoTM wvw test map also sounding just like what they describing, we can get a pretty good picture of what is happening here.

I like the ideas being proposed in this thread so far.

One of the best ideas thus far is to base the number of maps in a rotation on the number of players.

This idea while a good one will not work the way WvW is currently implemented. The change would be to remove the borderland maps. And replace them with more maps like EB.

Then like in PVE where a map population drops the players would be moved to another map. And that map would get removed.

Other suggestions.

Were merging or removing servers. Which has been discussed many times. While people were not for this, they were for some sort of alliance system. Where alliances would battle each other as opposed to actual servers.

In response to others who commented that we had asked for these things.
We never asked for EOTM we asked for another map, we got EOTM instead. EOTM was a good year late and serves as a solution to a problem that no longer existed by the time of its release.

We never asked for siege disablers. We asked for balance matchups. We got siege disables instead and it was later that proponents of them created a story that they were intended for unpopulated servers to use as a way to combat coverage imbalances but these people always leave out the fact that everyone can use them.

We never asked for Siege mastery’s, we asked for a rank up system. And we asked for siege to be nerfed not buffed in many cases.

Hopefully they will improve WvW to make it match the quality of HoT before HoT’s release. Right now it’s stale.

lil devils x.6071:

I was addressing the issues being brought up in his post, EBG is the most popular map, and runs the highest ques among ALL servers. That does not mean that people do not run on BL, that just means that MORE people run on EBG. This is a fact of the game.

Bear in mind there is only one EBG and three borderlands. If EBG was only half as popular it would still be getting higher queues.

All I know is my server spent a month getting steamrolled in T3. People left, and now we’re struggling in T5.

By our second loss we should have been back in T4 but no, we weren’t, courtesy of the match up system.

Fights that test your mettle and skill are great and all……… be it because you’re simply outnumbered or horrendously outclassed or both, but for it to be bad enough for players to leave WvW is just ridiculous. You can siege disable up the wazoo but 5 people aren’t a match for 50!

Should this game be called Guild Wars or Server Wars…

My problem with WvW is that it was served up as the biggest selling factor to anything close to a “guild war.” I get that semantically speaking a “war amongst guilds” does exist with multiple guilds in one server fighting against multiple guilds in other servers. However, the result was disappointing to me. I was hoping for guilds being able to challenge other guilds to an objective based battle and/or a simple death match like a large scale Courtyard (no, not OS). The current structure forces alliances and enemies simply because of the server you chose to be on. What if your guild wants to GvG against a guild on the same server as you. You don’t get that option unless you move servers. But you don’t want to move servers because you like the server you are already on. It feels like your guild is your server, not the groups we’ve made. Guilds should have the option of who they wish to ally themselves with and/or challenge to a guild war. The only way I can find this “guild war” feature to exist would be in a new expansion (seemingly unlikely), or a Guild Wars 3 to come out (even more unlikely), or the game should’ve been originally designed like the below approach (too little too late):

1. Guild war features would include guilds with the ability to have a battle against any guild, regardless of the server they are on. This would be the prime GvG action, not WvW.
2. Edge of the Mist (the concept, not the map…it sucks lol) would be for the 24/7 casual WvW.
3. Then at the end of each period (end of the month for example) the WvW will run as it currently does for that week as if it were the “champion war” or something.

This way, we would get the actual guild wars and the WvW concept would still exist but as a reward instead of the only selling factor for massive PvP action. With this approach, it would feel much more dynamic to me. WvW being the only option 24/7 has lost it’s flavor to me. Adding siege disablers and new maps doesn’t change the underlying issue: guild wars do not exist in this game as it stands currently. It has now left me shopping for other games that do offer a legitimate GvG. With Wildstar’s warplot system, it looks the most enticing to me at the moment. Their GvGs consist of a 40v40 battle between 2 guilds. I just have to suck up paying for a P2P game instead of this very convenient B2P one.

I may be the minority that feels this way and the majority asked for and/or is satisfied with it’s current progression. But with that said, I’m not trying to completely sever my relationship with you, ANET. I just feel we should see other people. It’s not you, it’s me. We can maintain our casual affairs when I feel like doing a WvW run here and there. However, I will be looking elsewhere for what I consider to be true GvG action.

the announcer mentioned something about factions being added at pax ?!?!?!?!?

it was not a official announcement so I know that does not mean much

but if they added factions it would help the wvw problems

On my server WvW isn’t even worth going into. It’s a ghost land owned by the rival servers that I use for a free port.

That leaves EOTM for large scale battles. In the last few months I can count on one hand the number of times we haven’t had the out numbered buff. Sometimes you’ll get in and see no commanders and everyone getting camped near spawn. Welp guess i’ll try again later.

It sucks. The mega server has generally been great for all of the PVE content so it’s really time to implement that for WvW. Telling new players they are better off deleting the character they just made and rerolling on a tier 1 server to not waste $20+ in the future isn’t a great welcome to the game.

TLDR: EOTM is the only fun large scale thing I can do and because of server imbalance I effectively can’t often.