Guild Wars 2

Call of duty my little cousin plays that when he comes over. Maps are a giant box you run around the boarder camping re spawns. In tpvp you have fixed spawns and it’s even easier to control the maps. I’d rather play huttball in swtor then tpvp that was a refreshing game mode. Not some Arathi Basin / Eye of the storm clone that gives me flashbacks of WoW.

Wvw is very different from spvp. One thing is that most builds used for wvw are very poor at small group encounters.

WvW just “feels” better to me. There are bigger goals than just killing or holding that circle for a few minutes.

s/tPvP is more about individual player skill, but it’s so small and over so fast it doesn’t “feel” like it means anything. Nothing changes other than who you are fighting with/against.

In WvW the maps may stay the same, but at any time of day there are vast differences in who holds what and how defended is each point. There are also strategies for large encounters that cannot be used in 5v5 or 8v8, and while it might look like mindless skill spamming (or might actually be, depending on the skill of your zerg, I guess) I guarantee you that an organized group will wipe a disorganized group randomly spamming skills every single time. Getting into a voice program with a good group can change everything.

I also prefer WvW because the pace is different. There are huge bursts of activity followed by downtimes as groups strategize and resupply. In sPvP you know when the battle will start and end, in WvW battle can start anywhere at any time and it’s not over until one side surrenders.

As far as small scale fights go, I’ve had some great ones in WvW, and some horrible ones. The thing here is not only the level/gear differences, it’s the build differences. In sPvP the build variety is much smaller, not only limited by the amulet/jewel system, but also pigeonholed by specialty (bunker/roamer/etc). In WvW there are a lot more builds running around with large group combat focused builds, if you catch these alone or in small groups of course they will seem bad (a shout-heal or banner warrior is great in WvW, how many of those do you see in sPvP? Or how about glass cannon staff eles? yeah….).

But anyway, OP stating he’d only had a few small scale battles and spent a short time in WvW, as well as posting this in the PvP forums, probably indicates the answer he’s looking for isn’t the one I’m giving. To make you feel better “yeah, bro, I hear ya, WvW is just dumb zergs, dunno why it’s so popular, people must just be dumb.”

WvW has its flaws, but structured is stale repetition. I did some last month for laurels and could barely stand it by the 3rd straight match of that ice map. Tourney style or hotjoin, both suffer the same repetition of similar style fights over the same boring small circles over and over. Really limits your build that you basically have to stay engaged on that circle.

The terrain and logistics involved in WvW just make for so much more variety in the type of fights you get into. Everything from 1v1, to small group, to zergs, to sieges at structures. WvW is only boring zergs clashing if that is all you seek to do.

WvW will be a nice template for the next MMO to work off of and hopefully get right.
Since that is the game everyone will be playing within a year or two.

The days of 10yr old MMORPG’s is over untill Virtual Reality.

WvW is fun because it’s open ended. It’s not about one single round or individual fights of equal numbers so it takes out the S in sPvP. To me, s/tPvP feels the same every time. It’s always equal teams, always the same small maps, same small-scaled meta builds and classes, basically always the same fights over and over. Not that it’s not fun with a good and coordinated team but it just gets old fast.

The fact that everything is not always balanced in WvW is what makes it fun.

If you want a fair fight you go to spvp.

If you want to fight in a war, you go to wvw.

The skill and mind sets are different. A navy seal for example might not be the best cage fighter, but drop a squad (or 1) of them on an open battlefield and the results will maybe differ.

WvW does need maps that are bigger. Drain the HUGE lake in the middle, drop the mobs by 50%, and make the terrain waaaaaaaaaay more 5 man friendly. Also make swiftness not apply if there are more than 6+ friendlies in a 600unit radius or something.

What I like most about WvW is that I can bring my own gear combination which I cannot replicate in sPvP (thus far). I also enjoy smaller skirmishes in non-kitchen sized areas, but these rarely happen.
Zerg vs Zerg battles in WvW to me is the ultimate example of what is wrong with GW2 PvP: it’s a confusing mess of ability spam without anyone seeing anything.

I’ve barely ever stepped into sPvP and almost every single time I have the chat has just been one giant flame fest. “I’ma bring my guild in this game and kick your kitten #8221; and other such things.

I like sieges, that’s something you can’t find in sPvP.

I like having more options for my stats, you can’t find that in sPvP.

WvW doesn’t revolve around bunker+roamer or whatever the meta is atm, it’s not about keeping hold of a tiny circle that gets covered in AoE, the combat moves and you can fall back and use the terrain far more than you ever could in sPvP. There’s more than one way to play it.

Cirax.9231:

One problem with spvp is the lack of variety of available builds because of the limited stat distributions. And even then, hot join still has zerg problems. In tpvp, it’s more about allocating resources to stay in a circle as long as possible. As a bunker, I watch my health bar and cooldowns instead of killing the people capturing the node because that’s my job.. it can get repetitive.

Or try joining a wvw guild with TS and find out what is really going on, tactics, orders, split squads, roamers, scouts, etc.

The bit about being a bunker is the best description I have ever heard of spvp and the main reason I have no real interest in it- I’m pretty sure you could just set up a macro to run that build and go off and do something else until it’s time to move to the next spot and bunker some more.

whether you like it or not WvW will always be about :
1. ZvZ
2. PvD
3. WXP/Karma train

[quote=1785846;kostbabis.8791:
Plus the more complex terrain there makes many encounter fun.like using knockbacks to throw down and kill people from cliffs.[/quote]

game. set. match. WvW wins.

sanctuary-ing most of a zerg off a cliff > *

I’ll keep this short and sweet:

1. You can find small scale fights regularly once you learn WvW.
2. WvW has it’s own rules, learn them.
3. Once you learn WvW it won’t seem random to you.
4. Mastering this is difficult + requires a tactical head and 10X the teamwork of sPVP.
5. Individuals can matter, ALOT. I feel extremely important on most characters.
6. This feeling is regularly validated by the impacts I can see me making on a battle.
7. I am only in Rares on my main and play alot of upleveled, still effective TYVM.
8. My main is a 12k hp, 2k armor ele that lives longer than 90% of people.
9. Yes, yes there are good players in WvW.
10. Run with a good guild group, don’t random zerg surf for large scale WvW.

I have to say that yestarday I enjoyed WvW, alternating solo roaming and being with a zerg. I had a couple of 1vs1 and 1vs2 and I did a little siege stuff around the map with a group of 15/20 ppl without being in a specific party.

Maybe that’s the formula that will work for me.

Hanzo.9624:

So after doing nothing but pvp since beta (aside from leveling) I’ve been recently playing WvW for the monthly, etc, and because all everyone does is complain about s/tPvP and talk about how popular WvW is in comparison. I wanted to see this aspect of the game for once.

I honestly can’t figure out what people like about it? The few times I engaged in small scale encounters (1vX or 2vX), everyone was terrible! I’m not trying to be insulting or pretentious, and I expect the upleveled people to be at a gear disadvantage, but the overall general feel of combat was very disorganized and…just weird. It didn’t feel like people were trying, if that’s the best way to explain it.

Other than that it was large groups of people spamming abilities against other large groups of people until one side was dead or ran away. Then you die and have a boring, long, slow walk back to any signs of player activity. If you make it back to a large group of your team, great. Walk around with a large group of your team and repeat above. It feels like WoW’s Wintergrasp but too big and with no vehicles.

Maybe my opinion is skewed by the fact that I’ve only done the Mists primarily, but I honestly can’t see how anyone could like WvW over sPvP. You don’t even really get to explore the combative abilities of your class because:

1. You outnumber the enemy to the point where it doesn’t matter.
2. You’re outnumbered to the point where it doesn’t matter.
3. The combat is, largely, gear dependent.
4. You fight people that aren’t the same level as you.

Am I missing something? Is there some other greater purpose that makes this venue more enjoyable? I’m not making a direct comparison between the two PvP aspects of the game but when one is largely more popular than the other you would expect it to be significantly better, but I just don’t see it.

Im sorry but I disagree with all four of your bullets. I would suggest finding a real guild and/or transferring somewhere with decent WvW guilds.

I think that WvW is very good.

I’ve been PvP’ing in a number of games for years and consider myself a PvP’er over PvE’er… however, I really don’t like GW2’s sPvP for some reason…

However, loving GW2 in general, I found myself continuing to play. I just found myself doing a lot more PvE than I expected. Until I joined my first WvW battle about a week ago.

I’ve been doing several hours of WvW per day since then, have found a very friendly guild out of the experience, and have learned that there is a lot more to it than zerging doors, if you’re willing to run with the right people.

I just love the mentality “i do spvp so i have superior skill than you” .Always enjoy destroying bunker spvp engies or whatever on my condition warrior when they step up in WvW thinking they have a clue about 1v1 out of the terrible gear stat templates of spvp.Keep exploring we need the WXP

10-15 man combat Vs 10-15 man+ The midscale fights right up to the zergbusting. That’s what I enjoy. Alongside the incredible WvW community on my server ;P

sPvP is too claustrophobic and there’s no team play. I like playing support roles and since you end up by yourself or with two people in spvp there’s no place for those roles there. No dedicated CCer or Boon/Heals provider or other utilities. If it was just a bit more accessible terrain and less of a jumping puzzle and the goal was to beat another group of 5 people (kill them, not push and tug around some glowing circle) I would like it.

The best PvP in my opinion is 5-15 vs 5-15 organized fighters or 5-15 organized vs 10-30 unorganized fighters.

Besides that, in spvp you don’t have the camaraderie with your fellow server mates, the jokes when you run into an allied guild group and complaining about them stealing your badges when they get to a fight first. The pleasant atmosphere just isn’t there in spvp as far as I’ve seen, seems like it’s serious business.

You also can’t do sPvP as a guild, it’s like a dungeon where its full once the first 5 people decide they want to do it, and even then you’re not playing as a guild, but as individuals doing your own thing at whatever circles or objectives the map has in store for you.

What I like about WvW is the large scale strategy game of what to take next, when to feint, when to engage, and I enjoy the unit level tactics in large scale engagements. To do these things well, you really need Ventrilo or TS for your server with a majority of the people in it. Our server has such a server that is open to any participant for WvW, and it really enriches the game.

When the majority of the players mindlessly follow the zerg, well that becomes frustrating. Without the strategy and tactics, WvW becomes all about who has the most numbers. You can kill them, kill them some more, and make 5 or more die before you go down, but if they keep swarming with numbers eventually you will go down. There have been days when we have been coordinated and some of the game experiences then have been truly memorable. There have been other days in which a large zerg forms with no real leadership, and we get mowed down.

My advice to you is hold off any value judgements on WvW until you actually participate in a coordinated WvW action over TS/vent.

sPvP and WvW are two very different game modes. One rewards individual skill a lot more, the other rewards larger scale team play. It’s like comparing tennis to rugby. I wouldn’t go onto a rugby pitch by myself expecting to have fun versus 15 burly men, whether I have a tennis racquet or not!

My guild originated in WAR where the open world PvP was designed towards groups of 24 people, and this is the scale of PvP that we are used to and enjoy. We get a lot of pleasure in making the group as a whole greater than the sum of it’s parts. A lot of the specs we use are pretty awful 1v1 but combined together with good coordination, allow us to wipe groups vastly superior in number to our own. It’s honestly a bit more nuanced than “follow the Commander and spam 1”!

In my experience, sPvP can become a lot less about actually killing the opposition, and a lot more about staying alive for as long as possible (bunkering), or avoiding fights entirely to capture unguarded circles, or running around in a group of 8 ganking the other team 1 by 1 because they’ve split up, presumably looking for some 1v1 fights.

The WvW community as a whole is generally a lot more inclusive and supportive than the sPvP community – I’ve often seen people raging at each other in sPvP for being a n00b or using an OP class or whatever, and it doesn’t make for the most convivial or fun atmosphere. Whilst there are still unsavoury individuals in WvW, their impact is diluted by the presence of a greater number of normal, well balanced, polite individuals! I don’t have much time for ragers. Seems sPvP peeps can generally be intolerant of new players, or players they deem not good enough to play with. Not quite reaching the toxicity of the League of Legends community, or the rampant anti-Semitism I frequently encountered playing Call of Duty, but it’s got a similar bent.

That’s my take on it anyway. I can appreciate that small scale folks can often find WvW a frustrating experience. But a decently sized, organized group can have a big impact and have some truly epic fights. Honestly surprised we don’t encounter more guilds running by themselves in similar numbers. But then it did take the RvR in WAR a year or more to mature to the “don’t zerg, the more equal-sized GvG fighting is the fun bit” kind of mentality.

I prefer WvW over sPvP for a few reasons.

Its less predictable:
The maps are pretty big, you might meet 1 player or you might meet 100 players at once :P

More variety:
Again for same reason as above, you get big fights, small fights and soo forth, also you get more variety in your surroundings as the map is a lot bigger ;p

Better moments/memories!:
In spvp you wont end up killing 10 players with 4 of you, or chased by a mega zerg that could populate a kitten city, spvp is the same every match to the point it just feels the same everytime, while in wvwvw youll get laughs, facepalming, and at times your jaw will hit the kitten floor!

And last but not least!
Seeing human nature, isn’t it amazing how you will see people engage you only if they outnumber you 2 to 1? Or multiple people decide it’l be fun to attack you alone and once you kill one or two the remaining turn and start running? Human nature can be amusing, sad, and something to start getting angry over! And in some rare cases feel respect towards the person who you just fought.

I agree with the OP. I don’t believe WvW is the place for developing skill for the reasons he mentioned.

Most of what I’ve learned about pvp in this game has been in spvp/tpvp and I’ve just ported that knowledge over into WvW.

I’d probably be a much better GW2 player if I skipped WvW entirely but I haven’t been able to get into spvp/tpvp for more than a week or two at a time.

WvW is easier and I get more stuff for doing it so that’s where I tend to play but I always feel like I’m a worse overall player for having done so.

I can understand that someone from PvP coming to WvW would find players “not that good”. It’s their whole game tactic to learn exactly what all other classes can and can’t do. A lot of WvW players might know a good deal about other professions but not know them all in detail and how to counter every single move.
WvW is a lot more about organization and looking at group composition. It does not matter if I’m the worst or best guardian when running with a group. It matters that I carry a hammer and that I have as much toughness as possible.
Do PvPers know what blast finishers are?

Scleameth.6809:

Do PvPers know what blast finishers are?

Is this a serious question?!

@ OP

If you play WvW with an sPvP mindset / playstyle, you’re going to die. A lot. This ain’t the place for your precious rotations.

If you play WvW without a guild, you have no idea what you’re talking about in terms of “No skill required”. When 20 people wipe 80, they’re doing something right.

The game is called Guildwars. Hint hint.

I had the complete opposite experience. I rarely PvP and WvW all the time. I went to try sPvP and the players were terrible. I was 2 and 3 v 1 and winning consitantly defending a objective. I also found a lot of people do not know how to play objectively and leave as soon as it looks like they may lose. How is this fun? It was maybe the most frustrating thing in this game so far, trying to get my 10 wins for the monthly.

WvW has many options, you can run with the zerg, you can roam in small groups or solo, you can defend/upgrade, or you can defend yaks. I think it has a lot to do with personal preference as well. I like the idea of epic large scale battles and using a lot of strategy to overcome your opponent. Believe it or not there is strategy when it comes to zergs crashing. The zerg with the better strat usually wipes the other.

Lonny.9873:

Scleameth.6809:

Do PvPers know what blast finishers are?

Is this a serious question?!

No not serious – just one sided I guess No disrespect intended, but stacking 25 stacks of might in PvP probably takes a little more doing that in WvW I imagine?
I’ve only tried PvP very little to be honest but I’m still willing to bet that most PvPers know their professions a lot better than most WvWers. I argument this purely because (unless you go to PvP and look at each profession at max level) playing with a lvl 80 in WvW takes long to reach max level and players tend to have a main and maybe 2 or 3 alts.
I guess at the end it’s as difficult to compare PvP players with WvWers and PvEers – all different parts of the game.
But I’m pretty sure that if I meet an average PvP in a 1v1 scenario in WvW then I’d be on the loosing end more than 50% of the time. EDIT: maybe, maybe not… I dunno – perhaps we should set up some kind of official tournament. 5noobs, 5average, 5skilled, 5masters of each aspect. 3 hours on WvW and 3 hours on PvP and see who’s triumphant?

WvW is war simulation with 3 factions. The strong can carry the weak and numbers can also affect outcome, as in real war. The stronger carrying the weak would not be different in tPvP. That is a team based concept. The question the op poses is similar to asking why one who boxed or wrestled should care about or enjoy football or basketball.

As soon as this thing was moved to the wvw forum the posts got really dumb

Acelerion.6820:

As soon as this thing was moved to the wvw forum the posts got really dumb

How?

I didn’t see any dumb. Care to elaborate?

You are the only one that posted something “dumb” right now.

It went from talking about finding fights to how awesome zerging is.

Lol I agree with the op. There is hardly any skill in WvW but I do understand why it’s more popular. I do enjoy WvW Zerg or roaming with that said. But the skill level in WvW is non existant. And the ones that think they are good at 1v1’s in WvW against sPvP guys lol……play a top sPvP player with equal gear and you have no chance.

What makes WvW suck the most I feel is the map design. It’s just a giant circle that zergs effectively play follow the leader until they finally catch up to one another.

What we need is a tiered map where you can’t take the next tower if you don’t have every tower before it. Imagine if Eternal Battleground’s general shape was a Y. At the tips of each line rest your starting garrison. Outside of your starting garrison was a keep. Further along was a cluster of 3 towers. Further along another keep. In the center a large castle. The only way to get the castle is to control everything in your lane before it. If you’re sieging the central castle and the enemy sneaks behind you and takes a tower, you can’t claim the central keep. If you don’t control your lane, defenders at the keep deal 50% damage and walls take 1.5x damage.

This way you force zergs to split not only into offense and defense, but to spread out along the whole lane because they have to keep an eye out for invaders that will take your tower to stop you from contesting something in another lane.

This is why WvW sucks so much. The maps themselves leave you no other way to play than in one giant ball. Roaming groups are ineffective due to horrible class balance and design. Sieging is horrible because you can lay siege in a tower and attack the next tower in a line removing any threat of enemy attack. And then lets talk about players attacking gates to rip them down…

With the shear number of players out there, some zergs don’t even bother with proper siege because they can rip a reinforced gate down in a minute or 2. Why don’t you do what other MMO’s did and make it so players can’t attack the gates and introduce siege weapons? these weapons do 10% damage to players but deal 50% damage to gates and 25% damage to walls. This way there’s real risk in players attacking the gate because if they’re caught before they had time to put on their regular weapons they’re no longer able to help repel attackers.

Fix the map so it requires some level of tactics and skill.
Introduce siege weapons so players run a risk of attacking without siege.
Increase the harmful AE cap to 10 so it can slightly outpace beneficial AEs.
Give every class a realistic AE option.
Introduce AE that is designed to disperse zergs (cast a tornado that knocks back 10 people every second. Remove heal on shadow refuge and change it to an AE blind that pulses 10 blinds every second. Etc).

I think of it this way. sPvP is like gladiatorial combat, in so much that there is skill required to survive and be successful. Fighting skill is what makes the player survive and thrive

WvW is like ancient armies clashing. It comes down less to the skills of the individual and more to the way they work together and how organised they act. Being a cog in a much larger machine. Therefore there is less need to improve ones fighting skill, and more of a focus on fighting as a unit.
Plus there are other priorities to think about in WvW. Such as supply running, siege usage, scouting and engaging from an advantageous position.

I find WvW amazing fun, I’m a skilled player and have met lots and lots of skilled players. I have good fights all night. All I can say to counter some of your points is; at first it’s confusing and you don’t know what to do but the more you play the more depth you find.

The big draw of WvW for many of the casual players is you don’t have to be skilled to have fun, it’s open and semi sandbox and you get from it what you want. I know that lots of people will read this and say yeah stupid unskilled players they suck etc. but fun is not the exclusive domain of hardcore gamers and not everyone can be the amazing gods of the PC that you guys are.

I have no idea what spvp is like because I got so hooked on WvW that I still haven’t got around to playing it. I’m not going to say anything about which is better because it’s like comparing apples with pears, so you may dislike WvW but don’t look for reasons to say it sucks, if you never took the time to find out why it doesn’t.

@ Atherakhia.4086

I have to disagree on this one. The WvW map design is really well suited to the game and allows for small groups and solo players to contribute to the points, it actually does the opposite and allows players not to run with zergs. I play a lot of WvW and I almost never run as part of a zerg. There is a big map out there full of solo roamers and small groups if you know how to find them. Guerilla tactics behind enemy lines or defending your own borderlands can lead to some epic small scale encounters and also contribute a lot to the team effort. Cutting of the supply routes of a hard point under siege or conversely keeping supply lines open to your own defences is often the key to victory. Often in defence of your own borderlands the more of it you can control the less enemy will arrive. When looking for a BL to join players often look at enemy areas and if they see it turning their colour they know they have a team in there working and will go to join them and a trickle can become a flood. Miss the subtleties of the system and you will lose a lot of points fast.

I can see the lack of appeal from an sPVPers perspective when it comes to ZvZ. The only times I run with a zerg is when I’m too mentally exhausted to handle solo/duo roaming, or if my guild is doing organized WvW.

But WvW doesn’t only offer ZvZ. You can choose to roam solo/duo/trio if you want. In my opinion, nothing in sPVP compares to a spontaneous 2v2 / 3v3 in open field (say between Garrison and Bay, or the area between NW tower and North camp in the BLs) with highly skilled players.

TallDan.6350:

I find WvW amazing fun, I’m a skilled player and have met lots and lots of skilled players. I have good fights all night. All I can say to counter some of your points is; at first it’s confusing and you don’t know what to do but the more you play the more depth you find.

The big draw of WvW for many of the casual players is you don’t have to be skilled to have fun, it’s open and semi sandbox and you get from it what you want. I know that lots of people will read this and say yeah stupid unskilled players they suck etc. but fun is not the exclusive domain of hardcore gamers and not everyone can be the amazing gods of the PC that you guys are.

I have no idea what spvp is like because I got so hooked on WvW that I still haven’t got around to playing it. I’m not going to say anything about which is better because it’s like comparing apples with pears, so you may dislike WvW but don’t look for reasons to say it sucks, if you never took the time to find out why it doesn’t.

No, you’re right. But do you feel we needed 4 of the exact same thing on 2 different types of maps? Why couldn’t each borderland offer a different style of play? Why couldn’t one actually have real NPC’s that could be used to defend and you could send out a wave of NPC’s to help push enemy attackers back?

I remember when Alterac Valley first came out. You would sometimes have the same map open for days because of the constant back and forth due to the NPC’s helping push people out of choke points, or to help reinforce a big rush.

I feel WvW is very one-dimmensional and it really does lack any real lasting power in this game. And with sPvP really only offering the same thing on a handful of different maps, it isn’t much better.

If I solo-crossed with the OP in WvW I would probably ignore him completly.

Why? Two main reasons:

I have a mass combat build, not adecuate for 1v1

If I’m alone normally it is because I’m trying to reach my guilds raid, maybe from getting supply or because I just died in a battle.

Anet, you better wake up and increase your server capacity or you are going to get killed by a game that can actually handle its own programming. This 30 second skill lag is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable. Skill lag, and actual lag is so stupid its not even worth playing. How do you even explain the changes you have made? Can you really support this laggy ruined game that is wvw?

Tastes and opinions differ…
I don’t see how anybody could like sPvP over WvW because it’s just the same boring game of conquest over and over, for me it got old after around 30 matches but WvW didn’t get old for me yet and I’ve spent most my active gaming time there since the 1st BWE.
The reason probably is there’s a lot I can do to contribute to the meta fight, depending what I’m in the mood for. I can defend objectives, scout enemy movement, cap supply camps, upgrade objectives on my own or with only a few others; or if I’m tired and not that focused just zerg surf and have some fun in large scale battles enjoying outsmarting the opponents with nice flanks etc.
I’ve had plenty of small scale fights, even 1v1, 1v2 or 1v3 where the opponents didn’t run away or a zerg “interfering”.
Also I don’t need to run around in search for some action, one glance at the map tells me a lot about what’s happening or is likely to happen next.
For me sPvP compared to WvW is like tictactoe compared to chess/stratego.

For me personally, I see WvW as the less casual of the two pvp modes. (exception being if you are doing a 5 man premade tourny group, of course)

And by this I mean that in WvW, if you die, you suffer a repair bill, your opponent gets loot, and you get a run back. You never know what will happen, who you will face, from what direction or when. You could be running down the road and get jumped by a full on zerg, or meet an enemy one on one. You never know what’s going to happen. You fight not just for ~15 minutes at a time, you fight for a battle that lasts weeks. You don’t just fight over a 5 meter wide circle, you fight over camps, towers, keeps, supply lines, choke points, and open fields.

In SPvP, when you die, you have at most a ~15 second respawn. You have no repair bill and your opponent effectively gets nothing for your death. The match is over, and you move on to the next one. You’re forced to pick builds that are good for 8v8, 5v5, and 1v1 combat instead of having the freedom to include builds that are good for larger combat. Your gear choices are severely limited, you can’t even use all of the runes, sigils, and gems. Every primary objective is a small circle you stand on.

SPvP is what I do when I just want to kick back and relax for an hour or so. WvW is what I do when I’m getting down and serious about kicking some butt! That’s just how it feels for me, both game modes are fun and some people will be more attracted to one over the other. I have fun in both, I just prefer WvW personally. It’s not more casual, it’s different.

Hanzo, i see where you’re coming from. even though i prefer WvW, i can admit it has its fair share of problems. a lot of WvW turns into zerging an undefended enemy tower, which i can say is very boring. most of the fun i have in WvW involves small squads of 10-15 players running into one another.

one thing i think not many have touched on in this thread, is “your build”. in sPvP your build is half the battle, you can lose simply cause you’re not speced to 100% perfection. in WvW many hybrid builds are viable in larger groups, which to some is more fun than sporting some cookie cutter build(no offense).

which i think is a result of WvW being more casual friendly, even if your build isn’t perfect, you can still be useful. also if you don’t know where to go there is usually someone(commander) there to guide you along if needed. where as sPvP seems a little less forgiving, this doesn’t mean i think WvW requires no skill, just easier to jump into and enjoy.

lastly your home server can have a huge impact on how much you enjoy WvW. i know there is hardly any one on at certain times of the day and your basically getting zerged the whole time, which is no fun. WvW experiences are different from server to server and tier to tier, just something to keep in mind.

really at the end of the day i’m left wanting more from both sPvP and WvW. imo there really isn’t much of an argument for which is best. they both get stale at times, they both have huge imbalances, and they both have tons of room for improvement. there really is no wow factor to either that makes one more enjoyable than the other, it’s all preference imo.

EB should be the only 3-way battle map.
The 3 homeland maps should only have the Defenders and the Attackers and the attacking server is what should be rotated every week.

In the Tier 1 I am in we have faught the same 2 servers for over a month now. Its the same thing over and over and over from the same players over and over and over. All 3 servers have adapted the, run in a single zerg that is as big as you can possible make it, this means when 2 zergs meet up and battle all players will get skill lag even if you are across the map.
With the skill lag and general server lag along with PC lag most fights consist of dodging and autoattacking and desperatly trying to get your heal to work.

This is Tier 1 and is what supposedly all the servers should be aspiring to be, if not eventually when server populations decline servers will be dropped and merged and the few remaining will be more or less forced into the Lagtastic-ZvZ-PVdoor rushes.

Just a few days ago we had at least 10 pieces of siege at the NE tower and they were all manned along with another 15ppl trying to fight back and the enemy zerg still just stopped in the middle of the road, built about 4 Golems while under fire of all that siege and took the gate down in less than 2 minutes.

All the while the only reward for WvW is loot bags that you have to pick up so the winning zerg is the only one who gets compensated for playing the game. The point system means nothing more than “we have more players on throughout the day then you do”

So when the next MMO comes out hopefully they will learn from Anet’s mistakes and make a consistant battle realm that will keep players playing for reasons besides “its the only one out right now”

I agree with the OP about the average player being "terrible"at PvP. The thing is, WvW caters to the casual audience that joined this game for the PvE.

If you’ve never experienced the thrill, the joy, of standing triumphant with your 10-man guild and dancing on the dead bodies of a 50-man zerg you’ve just wiped and building a flame-ram-shrine to mark your victory, having spent the last 20 minutes furiously yelling over teamspeak to coordinate buffs, wardings, reflections, portals, veils, constantly moving to take advantage of terrain and choke points, to feint charges to draw out their cool-downs, invising and appearing with a hammer-train on their squishy backliners……

then no, I guess you wouldn’t understand why people like WvW.

Because it’s fun.

Spvp is one and done. Wvw is community based, team based, guild based and large scale. In spvp, the only meta is the builds and the nerf/buff cycle. In wvw, you have the commmunity meta, the server meta, the map meta, the zerg meta, the roamers meta, and basically how well everyone on the map can work together meta, as well as the build meta. Wvw is war, spvp is a barroom brawl. GG, sir!

lilz shorty.1879:

Lol I agree with the op. There is hardly any skill in WvW but I do understand why it’s more popular. I do enjoy WvW Zerg or roaming with that said. But the skill level in WvW is non existant. And the ones that think they are good at 1v1’s in WvW against sPvP guys lol……play a top sPvP player with equal gear and you have no chance.

Say that to Osicat, one of the top mesmer that made the shattercat build, whos a WvW guy. Amadeus who’s prolly one of the best engineer in the game is also 100% WvW.

Those are just 2 example, because we don’t have a top 100 like sPvP.

But I play both, tho I do a lot less tPvP since I get bored pretty fast.

The average player in WvW is like the average player in hotjoin, it’s pretty random. Some will be pretty bad. But in WvW, you add in the fact that they can have bad gears, no food, they are upleveled, or they are group builded.

But the skills level are about the same. It can just looks worse because of the gear difference.

The roamers are like tPvP, they can be good, and they can be very good if they are on TS and using team work.

Team of roamers like PAXA, GF and others I don’t remember the name, are hardcore coordinated roamer guild. And they are more of a challenge for me then most team I ever fought in tPvP.

I found out as many good player in WvW as in sPvP, you just have to remember that there will be a large number of casual/average players, just like Hotjoin is a mess.

I personally prefer WvW roaming because of the Open World pvp. I come from an Ultima Online back ground, and staged fight isn’t something that appeal me.

I need the random encounter, the feeling that you never know what will happen. Yeah you get stomped by zerg, a lot. But you also get the best fights you’ll ever get.

I can’t find that in sPvP, I’m an old school pvpers and I need my open world, my ganking, my gears.

:)

P.S : I just want to roam really bad right now aha!

Thesilentflute.8761:

Strategy is dead in wvw the groups are so large you can’t play the game so who wins biggest zergs smallest wieners. Let me guess you also play bunker canguro.

Actually I play a ranger and have multiple builds like glass sniper, trapper, bunker bm and recently working on a balanced with ground control, all of them work for different purposes.

there is space for strategy in wvw, but it requires coordination from a least a medium group (~15 ppl), a coordinated group can easily beat another that isn’t even if they outnumber 2 to 1