Guild Wars 2

I have never posted to a forum before so be gentle. But, the game I used to love is no longer fun. Prior to HOT, I was on Anvil Rock. We had a fun community and the WvW was pretty darn good. Enter HOT, and the WvW died completely. Our guild stuck it out for months and tried to breathe some life into it. No go.
We changed servers. That brought some relief but not much. IMO, the problem is the new borderlands (Yeah! I know. Slow clap for Sarah). I just find that “run supply – knock down the wall – kill the lord – rinse – wash – repeat”, without enemy opposition is amazingly boring. At first, although I hated the changes, I thought, “Give them a chance. People will adapt and come back.” We are 5 months into this and I hate them more than I did initially.
I hate PvE, so I find myself having time but no motivation to play. An informal poll of my guild found a good many members feel the same way. I am now shopping for another game.
Here are my questions:
1. It seems that most are disgruntled with the new maps. Is Anet willing to admit it’s error and go back? I have heard nothing about plans for change from Anet. Propositions from players are plentiful. Has the great Anet spoken?
2. Does Anet actually care that people are leaving? I’m serious. Do the new game purchases more than make up for the gem purchases of existing players that leave?
3. Is the WvW population a small enough percentage of GW2 players that Anet doesn’t care that we don’t like their changes?
4. Any advice regarding games that have similar systems to WvW?

Well first off, a lot of ppl feel the same as you about the changes to wvw since HoT so your not alone, there are lot of threads here you can check out. There will be a series of upcoming changes coming to wvw starting in April. It was originally going to be a major overhaul, but was proving to be to complicated and taking to long so it was broken down into smaller fixes that will be shipped out individually and will be tested on live servers. Yes can you believe it actual live beta testing. They have not given much details for what actual changes are coming but they have mentioned that they are first interested in working on population imbalances (afraid to think of what that might mean) rewards, and scoring.

http://dulfy.net/2016/03/05/gw2-reddit-developer-ama-summary/#WvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Your-top-5-priorities-for-WvW-Overhaul/page/6

sarahlynn.6943:

4. Any advice regarding games that have similar systems to WvW?

is this system what you mean?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/458604254452226208/

quoted from that site:
“So, why does Valve not use Glicko after calibration and instead switches to Elo? Simple: maintain Glicko and you remove the motivation to play as a team. Implement Elo, and now the team which has become an Elo “entity” has to work as a SINGLE COHERENT entity in order to win. This, in theory, will motivate people to come together and play as a team."

PS: there you have it folks the ones that complains a lot about blobs are glicko type players (which is not wrong due to the fact that current WvW scoring is Glicko 2)

Norbe.7630:

sarahlynn.6943:

4. Any advice regarding games that have similar systems to WvW?

is this system what you mean?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/0/458604254452226208/

quoted from that site:
“So, why does Valve not use Glicko after calibration and instead switches to Elo? Simple: maintain Glicko and you remove the motivation to play as a team. Implement Elo, and now the team which has become an Elo “entity” has to work as a SINGLE COHERENT entity in order to win. This, in theory, will motivate people to come together and play as a team."

PS: there you have it folks the ones that complains a lot about blobs are glicko type players (which is not wrong due to the fact that current WvW scoring is Glicko 2)

please explain how you reach the conclusion about Elo and Glicko being preferred by different types of players.

They are both basically the same thing only Glicko 2 calibrates for erratic performance in its calculation.

Suggesting that Elo is more team oriented implies that the Elo rating follows the team and not individuals on the team. There are multiplayer implementations of Elo that would allow the same type of individualistic rating scores as Glicko.

Regardless, using Glicko or Elo in WvW would say nothing about preferences for blob fights.

It sounds like you dislike the lack of population rather than the map? At least, your only complaint was about that. Is there also something you dislike about the maps or is it just that others dislike them and have left?

At any rate, we have a solid date for when more changes will hit so there is hope on the horizon. Personally, I scaled back on GW2 due to lack of population despite liking the new maps, but I’m hoping that they manage to either bring people back or bring new people in.

Sviel.7493:

It sounds like you dislike the lack of population rather than the map? At least, your only complaint was about that. Is there also something you dislike about the maps or is it just that others dislike them and have left?

At any rate, we have a solid date for when more changes will hit so there is hope on the horizon. Personally, I scaled back on GW2 due to lack of population despite liking the new maps, but I’m hoping that they manage to either bring people back or bring new people in.

Waiting has already decimated her server and they should have received an answer long before it ever got that bad. We begged for help, hope, and answers. The exodus was for many things besides the map. Server balance was also a key factor. The hardest thing I ever did in GW2 was to leave that tough fighting little server, but I looked up one day and all my friends had left.

She has every right to be upset and looking for another WvW type game out there. We are all shopping around at this point.

Do I sound a little bit bitter about it? You bet I am, and words of optimism are too little too late for AR…I’ll never forget it, it was a very special group that I was privileged to be apart of. They deserved better for sure.

sarahlynn.6943:

1. It seems that most are disgruntled with the new maps. Is Anet willing to admit it’s error and go back? I have heard nothing about plans for change from Anet. Propositions from players are plentiful. Has the great Anet spoken?

If you read their latest statements, they still think they can fix the new BL.

sarahlynn.6943:

2. Does Anet actually care that people are leaving? I’m serious. Do the new game purchases more than make up for the gem purchases of existing players that leave?

Anet’s history with WvW speaks for itself. It’s clear they don’t care for the WvW game mode at all. Sure, they’ve made a few recent announcements, but seems more like a product of desperation — very poor HoT sales seems to have put them back into “give us your suggestions, we’ll work on the, we promise” mode. And by now, if you’re fooled by this, that’s on you.[/quote]

sarahlynn.6943:

4. Any advice regarding games that have similar systems to WvW?

Some are in the works but as far as I know, none will be out any time soon. However, Anet has let WvW gameplay become poor enough to warrant quitting, even without a viable alternative.

TorquedSoul.8097:

please explain how you reach the conclusion about Elo and Glicko being preferred by different types of players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

The Glicko rating system and Glicko-2 rating system are methods for assessing a player’s strength in games of skill, such as chess and go. It was invented by Mark Glickman as an improvement of the Elo rating system, and initially intended for the primary use as a chess rating system. Glickman’s principal contribution to measurement is “ratings reliability”, called RD, for ratings deviation.

Both Glicko and Glicko-2 rating systems are under public domain and found implemented on game servers online (like Lichess, Free Internet Chess Server, Chess.com, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Guild Wars 2).¹ The formulas used for the systems can be found on the Glicko website.

The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor.

The Elo system was originally invented as an improved chess rating system but is also used as a rating system for multiplayer competition in a number of video games,¹ association football, gridiron football, basketball,² Major League Baseball, competitive programming, Scrabble, and other games.

try to differentiate the games that uses those two ratings and see for yourself
PvP = WvW?
https://youtu.be/Q_JASZZ8xtk

PS: oh theres a thread to explain it to you further
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Porpousal-for-small-roaming

Norbe.7630:

TorquedSoul.8097:

please explain how you reach the conclusion about Elo and Glicko being preferred by different types of players.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

The Glicko rating system and Glicko-2 rating system are methods for assessing a player’s strength in games of skill, such as chess and go. It was invented by Mark Glickman as an improvement of the Elo rating system, and initially intended for the primary use as a chess rating system. Glickman’s principal contribution to measurement is “ratings reliability”, called RD, for ratings deviation.

Both Glicko and Glicko-2 rating systems are under public domain and found implemented on game servers online (like Lichess, Free Internet Chess Server, Chess.com, Counter Strike: Global Offensive, Guild Wars 2).¹ The formulas used for the systems can be found on the Glicko website.

The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess. It is named after its creator Arpad Elo, a Hungarian-born American physics professor.

The Elo system was originally invented as an improved chess rating system but is also used as a rating system for multiplayer competition in a number of video games,¹ association football, gridiron football, basketball,² Major League Baseball, competitive programming, Scrabble, and other games.

try to differentiate the games that uses those two ratings and see for yourself
PvP = WvW?
https://youtu.be/Q_JASZZ8xtk

PS: oh theres a thread to explain it to you further
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Porpousal-for-small-roaming

Nothing you posted there addresses the assertion you made of Glicko being preferred by blob fighters or Elo being preferred by more team oriented players.

Here is what I am able to derive from this post.

1. You prefer Elo to Glicko
2. You prefer small group fights to Blob Fights.
3. Things that you don’t like must be related in some way.
4. So people who like blob fights must like Glicko since you don’t like either.

sarahlynn.6943:

IMO, the problem is the new borderlands (Yeah! I know. Slow clap for Sarah)

The problems are far deeper and more than 3 years old. Anet it’s like in a parallel universe: they do things on their own pace, give us inventions we never asked for and ignore what the large majority asks; then they wonder why everyone slowly left… They don’t conduct survey’s to find out what their WvW players really think about major features or major problems, and eventually just pick an ideea here and there from these forums… not the brightest ideeas of course.

Desert Borderland for example: where is the survey asking WvW players about what they think about the new map? How many are pleased and how many are not? Huge amount of time, resources and effort went into this, while the WvW was already in dying state.

How long the community asked for a proper squad UI? From betas. For proper commander tools. For a meaningful scoring system. For reducing siege damage vs. players (they even increased it and left it increased!!). For a separate balance of skills where WvW has different needs. The list goes on…

For how long the WvW community asked for communication? For answers, explanations: what’s the reasoning behind different decisions… We were always ignored, all those are still unknown. And all that evil that slowly killed our communities are still kept unchanged. If not the devs, not the company, who should fix these problems? The players did their utmost to keep their game mode alive. Not everyone fought until the end though, not everyone was so much involved… But once the most faithful started leaving, the whole WvW collapsed: the community that kept this sandbox game mode alive is but a shadow of their former self.

Why we loved so much this WvW game mode? In truth we haven’t. What we loved was our community: the friendship that formed during hard times, during cooperation, the memories of epic struggles. We fought for each other. And now we lost each other… WvW meant the people, those who made it alive. That’s why we still keep logging back sometimes, and still take a sad look at these places, full of memories…

Aeowia.7214:

Why we loved so much this WvW game mode? In truth we haven’t. What we loved was our community: the friendship that formed during hard times, during cooperation, the memories of epic struggles. We fought for each other. And now we lost each other… WvW meant the people, those who made it alive. That’s why we still keep logging back sometimes, and still take a sad look at these places, full of memories…

That’s so kittening right. Best post I read so far!

[img]http://orig09.deviantart.net/8010/f/2013/192/a/1/mlp__friendship_is_magic_fan_button__edited__by_requestbuttons-d5u7ux4.png[/img]
(sry for the image )

[quote=6052631;Aeowia.7214:]

Aeowia.7214

Why we loved so much this WvW game mode? In truth we haven’t. What we loved was our community: the friendship that formed during hard times, during cooperation, the memories of epic struggles. We fought for each other. And now we lost each other… WvW meant the people, those who made it alive. That’s why we still keep logging back sometimes, and still take a sad look at these places, full of memories…

Players and Guilds just transfer and stack onto other servers, Anet just got things wrong on that front, from the beginning.

TorquedSoul.8097:

Here is what I am able to derive from this post.

1. You prefer Elo to Glicko
2. You prefer small group fights to Blob Fights.
3. Things that you don’t like must be related in some way.
4. So people who like blob fights must like Glicko since you don’t like either.

truth is…
1. I prefer KISS than Elo or Glicko.
2. I prefer Blob fights than dueling.
3. I always say the things i dont like, only mods deletes it.
4. People who dont like blob fights are PvP players not WvW players

According to Mike O Brien there is some WvW changes in the works. Not sure if that’s to be considered good news though. They decided to put Karl in charge of balancing WvW, and for some reason and I can’t help but feel like when Karl is done with WvW, those new maps are our smallest problem.

sarahlynn.6943:

1. It seems that most are disgruntled with the new maps. Is Anet willing to admit it’s error and go back? I have heard nothing about plans for change from Anet. Propositions from players are plentiful. Has the great Anet spoken?

Anet has acknowledged the dbl as a priority at least, as listed by Mike O’Brien things to look into from the thread XTD listed:
1. Stability & skill balance
2. Fix or revert DBL
3. Rewards
4. Population balance
5. Scoring

sarahlynn.6943:

2. Does Anet actually care that people are leaving? I’m serious. Do the new game purchases more than make up for the gem purchases of existing players that leave?

I believe Anet’s priority has always been to go after new gem purchasing customers, so they’ve been developing as such trying to continue to attract new players to the game, new player experience revamp, expansion, raids etc. Living story was around to continue providing items for gem purchasers.

When they get a new customer they automatically fall into 3 categories, they won’t buy gems or use gold for purchases, they may buy them for certain stuff (transfers), they buy almost everything on the gem store. More than likely a player will stop buying gems rather than converting to buying gems regularly, so they always have to replenish their pool of gem buyers through new players.

I don’t think they care if the non gem purchaser leave, they’re basically just players to keep gem purchasers company in the game. Maybe gem sales from transfers don’t make as much as we think, and so they think wvw players don’t provide enough gem sales.

I always thought if you don’t keep players happy they will definitely convert to not buying gems anymore, so leaving many of their game systems to rot is baffling, I think they finally realized it’s a problem to look at after the expansion came out and a month later the numbers for wvw kept on dropping.

sarahlynn.6943:

3. Is the WvW population a small enough percentage of GW2 players that Anet doesn’t care that we don’t like their changes?

Probably, when you look at it if they have 2 million current players and say maybe on average 1000 play for every NA server(generous considering the bottom half of servers), that’s only 24k players in wvw, that’s a drop in the bucket of the player pool.

sarahlynn.6943:

4. Any advice regarding games that have similar systems to WvW?

Warhammer Return of Reckoning, youtube it, free to play emulator server of the live game which was closed down.
Planetside 2, Eve online, Elder scrolls online, Archeage, Dark age of camelot.

Upcoming options this year:
Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Life is Feudal, Albion online, Bless online, Star citizen.