Guild Wars 2

I’m curious, what’s your behaviour in WvW towards enemy players who are obviously doing some map completion stuff?

For example, imagine you see a lone enemy player that is climbing to reach a vista, or commuting with a skill point location.
What do you do?

1- If he/she seems friendly (jumps or waves), do you let them be?
2- Do you attack them, but only after they unlock the skill/vista/whatever?
3- Or do you actively try to prevent them from unlocking the skill/vista/whatever? Even if the guy just spent a lot of time to get to that place in the map because there are no waypoints?

Whatever your answer is, I’d like also to read your reasoning behind it.

In my opinion the 3rd one is a major kitten move, and it’s a really childish behaviour because it implies a degree of malice that is unbecoming of mature adults (you are free to disagree, obviously, but give a reason). It’s even more kittenish that using offensive emotes over dead enemy bodies.
Of course if someone ventures in WvW they must be prepared for the eventuality of fighting and dying, but in that case the 2nd option seems more reasonable and way less malicious. To me having a degree of respect towards fellow GW2 players seems just natural, since we are on different sides just to have fun and there isn’t real conflict (it’s a make-believe war, not a real one).

So I would lean towards options 1 and 2, depending on the situation.

Running up to people just to see if they attack you is one of my favorite things. Just run but dont attack, if i see they trying to complete map and not nicking my dollies i need to upgrade stuff, i let them be. If they do try to attack me,well then its just me vs him/her.

So i’d go for nr 1

3

Your opinion of it is that of a PvE carebear so I am pretty sure you got trolled while trying to map complete

PvP zone is PvP zone

I go out of my way to down them let them res then down them again and let them res etc.

Narkodx.1472:

3

Your opinion of it is that of a PvE carebear so I am pretty sure you got trolled while trying to map complete

Believe me when I say that I was fairly sure that someone would assume this.

And yet you are mistaken: I got most of my map completion by following commanders and playing WvW normally. Which incidentally is the reason why I completed the 4 WvW maps in a really, really short time.
I got killed while doing a vista exactly once, and it was basically next to my spawn so I didn’t even care.

I’m just curious to hear what other players feel.
If at all possible I would like to read more in-depth reasons than “PvP is PvP”, though.

Red is dead.

/15 chars

Most likely 1. 2 if they are killing dollies / guards etc. Is it really an accomplishment to gank a pve peep? To me it isn’t so why bother with 3, but to each their own – not going to care if others do it.

3. It’s the same type of behavior that WvW players get in PvE for having something like a single piece of PVT gear on during a dungeon run. Frankly, I think it’s ridiculous that SO much of the WvW maps are required for Map Completion in the first place; it really should’ve been about 1/3 of what it currently is, imo. But that doesn’t get enemy Map Completionists any free POI’s from my server, regardless.

Maxwell.7843:

To me having a degree of respect towards fellow GW2 players seems just natural, since we are on different sides just to have fun and there isn’t real conflict (it’s a make-believe war, not a real one).

Oh it’s real… it’s SO real~!!!

^I just had to put that in, because if I simply replied “3”, I’m sure someone would say “Of course the guy from Blackgate doesn’t let anyone get Map Completion!”

Maxwell.7843:

Narkodx.1472:

3

Your opinion of it is that of a PvE carebear so I am pretty sure you got trolled while trying to map complete

If at all possible I would like to read more in-depth reasons than “PvP is PvP”, though.

How can we get more in-depth? I like killing everyone – except for people dueling

I do not feel proud or beaming with confidence stomping a PvEr who barely fights back its more funny/pathetic – that does not mean you get a free lunch though

Narkodx.1472:

Maxwell.7843:

If at all possible I would like to read more in-depth reasons than “PvP is PvP”, though.

How can we get more in-depth? I like killing everyone – except for people dueling

With getting more in depth I mean, for example, describing what makes option 3 better that option 2.
I understand the desire to engage a red player, what I have a hard time figuring out is the need to do so in a hostile manner.

Narkodx.1472:

I do not feel proud or beaming with confidence stomping a PvEr who barely fights back its more funny/pathetic – that does not mean you get a free lunch though

Basically, correct me if I’m wrong, you believe that unlocking POIs should be the reward given to those who can not only hold their own, but also can count on the support of their team…? (example: if a guy is going for the vista on the ruins, and the ruins are surrounded by that guy’s team mates, it means he has earned the right to unlock the POI)
Did I understand correctly?

Otokomae.9356:

3. It’s the same type of behavior that WvW players get in PvE for having something like a single piece of PVT gear on during a dungeon run.

Kicking people because of their gear isn’t a nice thing to do, no doubt, but it’s easy to avoid parties that require you to post your gear in chat.
Also I’m not sure that kicking because of gear implies the same level of spite and malice of someone that just pushes you of the ledge while you are a few pixels away from the vista, jumping and waving to show you are not hostile…

Otokomae.9356:

Maxwell.7843:

To me having a degree of respect towards fellow GW2 players seems just natural, since we are on different sides just to have fun and there isn’t real conflict (it’s a make-believe war, not a real one).

Oh it’s real… it’s SO real~!!!

This makes me even more curious, is there bad blood among shards in the American WvW community?

To clear: I’m not saying there shouldn’t be fighting in PvP, my point is that videogame make-believe fights should still be friendly…

Good question. Mostly I tend to:

Red is dead.

i.e. I don’t care who is where and why, a red on the way is just a possible score point/baggy to get, if I have nothing more important to do.

But you may be right, it’s a lack of empathy (but Anet supports that view, by anonymizing them) to handle enemy people the same like enemy NPCs.

In Obsidian Sanctum (wasn’t there for while) I stayed neutral, as long as they behaved neutral. Motto: If we start a fight now, we both hinder us to reach our goal.

My suggestion, as no matter what we prefer or think its going to happen.

Get your guild or friends to help. I know many times someone in my guild is trying to complete something and asking us to take a tower so they can get it.

So we do!

Meh … I tend to react differently depending on what’s going on.

If someone is clearly mapping, then I leave them alone. You have to consider that not everyone is interested in playing WvW and they simply want completion to obtain a legendary and play solely in PvE or PvP.

If they decided to engage me in combat, then I’ll respond accordingly.

However, if they are exhibiting suspicious behavior and appear to be scouting, then I’ll engage combat.

If it’s red, it’s dead. That is the motto of PvP, it’s a trial by fire, it’s the nature of a PvP environment, isit not? I don’t kill you to stop you specifically because I’m trying to be mean. I’m killing you because that’s the point of this game mode. I generally don’t emote or throw siege, that is mean spirited, but I play WvW to play against other players, to take other players territory, and to defend my territory against other players.

I guess we all see it a bit differently. The players are the challenge in WvW, they are what make it difficult to get world completion for the WvW portion. If you are found by other players then you failed the challenge, unless you can kill the other players. I don’t know that it’s fair per se, I guess that’s for another discussion, but personally I enjoyed, embraced, and conquered said challenge with some dedication, teamwork, and opportunistic behaviour. If I can do it I would say so can others. If you’re struggling to achieve it on NSP then let me know, I’m willing to help and I have a solid guild I’m in that I’m sure I could convince to lend you some help as well.

I see a lot of people with relatively high level WvW ranks going for map completion. It’s something they do because they happen to be ganking people outside my keep and need the vista on that character (for example.) Red is dead.

On the other hand if it’s an assaulter rank or something trying to hop to a vista, I’ll probably ignore them. Maybe kill them after the vista just so they don’t do any scouting.

if i demoralize todays enemy pver, he wont be a wvwer tomorrow, killin mah yakz and squattin on mah keepz

wvw is all about being the big kid on the playground, sucker punching the little kids and taking their candy

I don’t think there are any PvP/WvW players near the SP or Vistas (why would they be there when nothing there helps build world score?), so you won’t typically run into these situations.

If they’re participating in WvW objectives or attacking allies, they’re fair game. Otherwise, if they’re obviously just there for map completion, I ignore them. Requiring WvW for map completion is a kittenty thing ANET did, and something they didn’t even do with genuine PvE zones that probably should be required, like dungeons, because apparently map completing a dungeon is kittentier than trying to map complete when enemy players are trying to kill you or something.

It depends on the server. I usually ignore upscaled and map completionists unless they attack me or any allied player in the area. But if you are from any of the 3 servers I dislike most you will get hunted down and killed no matter your character level or intentions on joining a WvW map. What goes around comes around.

Kill them whenever you see them. Make them work hard for their achievement so that they feel as though they have acheived something.

i kill w/e is on my way, especially when they are BG, the only people i don’t touch is in OS JP because it is just silly

15 charrs says red is dead.

I don’t attack uplevels(If you’re about fights, then there’s nothing in that for you), other than that its on. I sometimes just down them and keep moving if they actually fight back and really try even though they clearly have clue what they’re doing. The ones who insist on running? No mercy, especially the ones who get brave only when their allies show up.

Enemy map completionists are still that, enemies. The WvWvW anonymity probably furthers the “othering” of people beyond the typical internet state but I don’t think WvWvW should be a place where you can just jump, wave then get safe passage.

Honestly, I think they should have put more vistas and PoIs in WvWvW just none in towers and keeps. That way its still doable on a personal level while being “at risk” for PvP.

I only ever let 1 person just run off scot free, and he was repping a guild that was [PVE] I’m just Mining. and he was.

Everyone else is carrying my Precursor though. 55k kills and counting. #AlmostRealmAvenger, #theprogressisreal

I’ll kill people I come across. This isn’t “childish”, they’re in a PvP zone and they’re fair game. They could be scouting and/or killing yaks or sentries even if they are mostly there for vistas, etc.

3. I’m playing WvW to fight other players. If they want that vista, they will have to go through me!

if its red its dead.

I’ve always had a soft spot for the people who just love to kitten around and break the mold in wvw. Chances are if you are in quaggan mode I’ll leave you alone. I also usually let the other person attack first unless its someone I know who won’t play along. Even then, its not so much about kitten ing off, its kind of self-training to see how well I can do even when someone gets the first hit.

I’ve been known to roam as a dolyak with a kite, and woe onto the solo player who attacks the gold rank dolyak on a stroll

If it’s obvious they are mapping (and a sub-bronze ranking), I leave them be. I even passed someone once and waved. They waved back and we both kept on going our own way. Live and let live as long as they aren’t in a position to harm your server at all.

If they’re obviously doing mapping stuff (e.g. they’re in the Skritt/Centaur camps, are climbing to a vista, at a skill point) or even just running past (I have a deep seated dislike for tail gankers), I leave them alone unless they attack me first.

If they’re actively participating in WvW objectives (e.g. attacking a camp, killing a dolyak) then I regard them as fair game.

If I come across two single players duking it out, I will also join in to help my server mate unless it’s pretty obvious that they’re dueling (they’re in a well known dueling spot, or there’s other people standing around and watching).

Yes pvp map is for pvp…mean why the kittening hell is has to be drag into the map exploration?pvp has nothing to do with map exploration…pls don’t kittening add into the map exploration area…how is ppl gonna complete map exploration..where the server has low population or didn’t even care about the dam kittening pvp stuff????!!!!!!!!!!!

nirvana.8245:

Kill them whenever you see them. Make them work hard for their achievement so that they feel as though they have acheived something.

nahh you are just a kittening loser!!!pvp is only for pvp..don’t drag it to exploration

Usually num 1 for vistas/skill pts at BLs, bcos those places are usually out of way for camp/tower flippers. Elsewhere it’s pure, unbiased, cold-blooded murder whenever I spot a red.

For EB, too bad, the vistas/skill pts are near to camps/towers, and I am not sorry for staking a red even it’s purely for map completion. At least I don’t do emoji over the corpse

Fluffball.8307:

I see a lot of people with relatively high level WvW ranks going for map completion. It’s something they do because they happen to be ganking people outside my keep and need the vista on that character (for example.) Red is dead.

On the other hand if it’s an assaulter rank or something trying to hop to a vista, I’ll probably ignore them.

Exactly like that

I don’t get the obsession in killing everything from some people.
upscaled assaulter/invader? always leave them .. ofc it’s pvp but that doesn’t mean that everybody has to behave like a child. The upscaled invader you kill now will just become the emote spamming, siege throwing, cheese build running guy who ganks you with his 4 teammate soon but I’m sure most people here don’t have a problem with that too.

There’s more important things to do than chase an uplevel through the skritt tunnel.

3

Every person I stomp is a step closer to Valhalla

To me is really a matter of what mood am i in.

Generally if i see someone going about his own business, ignoring me and not clearly going for one of my camps/dollys/etc i might just decide to leave them alone especially if i have other things i’m after… but that’s not always the case.

Being upleveled increases the likelihood of being ignored, my team having bloodlust makes me more inclined to look for an easy stomp. Uplevels attacking lvl 80s of course are dumb and need to learn it the hard way.

I’d say if i see someone going for a vista i’m just as likely to let them get it than to decide to screw them over. Roaming is freedom.

I will try to interfere with their map completion if it is convenient for me (i.e. I am not running somewhere I need to get to Right Now). it’s a pvp map, and it is my duty and obligation to provide pvp content to as many players as I can (and hopefully they will pay it forward by providing me with pvp content).

but I almost never solo roam (I am nearly always trying to get somewhere to do something with others, and stopping to fight 1 person isn’t worth it when there’s a big fight I want to get to) and as a result I will usually ignore enemies (even the ones that try to attack me, unless it’s clear that I can’t outrun them in which case I will stop to fight back).

-ken

lol it is a pvp area. You are an enemy player and I will kill you every time.

There is nothing to consider. They are the enemy.

There are no mental issues with anger or whatever people may try to come up with as for the reason. In WvW we kill players with red names and we are rewarded for it.

Well depends on what I’m doing.

While I was getting my map completion, and totally on my own, if I ran past lone enemy players I would stop up and if they attacked, then I would engage and fight, but otherwise, if we both just stood there waiting, I’d just continue on, and so would they.

If I’m with my guild/group and we’re taking objectives on the map, we will kill all red players, regardless of what their intention might be.

dead before they can get the vista/sp. if you are in wvw, you need to play the game as intended. that said, I have often escorted players, on whatever server I was on, to those vista’s/sp and covered them long enough for them to get credit. that too is part of the wvw game design.

Maxwell.7843:

Basically, correct me if I’m wrong, you believe that unlocking POIs should be the reward given to those who can not only hold their own, but also can count on the support of their team…? (example: if a guy is going for the vista on the ruins, and the ruins are surrounded by that guy’s team mates, it means he has earned the right to unlock the POI)
Did I understand correctly?

Pretty much, although the tone of how you’re writing this is affected incredulous disbelief.

The second M in MMORPG is for “Multiplayer”, and if you want to circumvent that for some personal solo endeavor (which isn’t required for the game, of course) then it’s on you and not everybody else to make that happen. No consideration of you has to be given, and none should be expected.

You are going into a competition-based area of the game and wanting others to bend that mode so you can treat it as a single-player offline experience… no.

You either learn how to do it alone (swiftness, stealth, gods help you fighting ability), in which case your argument holds no water, or you conform to the game mode and help your server control those areas which will let you get your POIs and skill points.

If you want to treat WvW maps like PvE, then let me throw down siege in PvE and have the npcs ignore me while I’m doing map completion. Let me know when you’ve got that ready for me, and I’ll personally escort you through my server’s map in WvW.

Always 1.

The devs put PvE in a PvP zone. I just like fighting people fairly. If someone is trying to get a friggin vista for their epic legendary weapon, I’m not gonna ruin life for them. Some people try for months to get particular vistas, pois, and skill points. To prevent them from getting it a pretty messed up move. Sadly, this is an online community and people find it fun ruining another’s day and then hiding behind the excuse, “it’s a warzone.” That’s like taking candy from a baby and then saying, “it’s not healthy for him.”

To be clear, I should probably say I do the first option and then some. When I see my server trying to kill the person I try to stop them as much as I can.

nirvana.8245:

Kill them whenever you see them. Make them work hard for their achievement so that they feel as though they have acheived something.

Make PvE players feel they achieved something?

Sir, I believe you may need to get you’re head examined, because you’re making perfect sense and ANet doesn’t realize it

I always let them do their own stuff if they are peaceful.

Rimmy.9217:

Maxwell.7843:

Basically, correct me if I’m wrong, you believe that unlocking POIs should be the reward given to those who can not only hold their own, but also can count on the support of their team…? (example: if a guy is going for the vista on the ruins, and the ruins are surrounded by that guy’s team mates, it means he has earned the right to unlock the POI)
Did I understand correctly?

Pretty much, although the tone of how you’re writing this is affected incredulous disbelief.

That wasn’t my tone. I was just being cautious because, since I was interpreting someone else’s thoughts and feelings, I didn’t want to so sound rude or like a know-it-all.
In other words I didn’t want to sound like a guy who puts words in other people’s mouth.

English is not my first language so if my tone is misinterpreted it is probably my fault.

In truth I’m not incredulous; I even kind of understand the reasoning, even though I personally disagree with it.

Rimmy.9217:

The second M in MMORPG is for “Multiplayer”, and if you want to circumvent that for some personal solo endeavor (which isn’t required for the game, of course) then it’s on you and not everybody else to make that happen. No consideration of you has to be given, and none should be expected.

You are going into a competition-based area of the game and wanting others to bend that mode so you can treat it as a single-player offline experience… no.

You either learn how to do it alone (swiftness, stealth, gods help you fighting ability), in which case your argument holds no water, or you conform to the game mode and help your server control those areas which will let you get your POIs and skill points.

If you want to treat WvW maps like PvE, then let me throw down siege in PvE and have the npcs ignore me while I’m doing map completion. Let me know when you’ve got that ready for me, and I’ll personally escort you through my server’s map in WvW.

As I stated before, I got most of the 4 maps while playing WvW normally (except some minor stuff like the skritt and centaur skill points), in a group, following commanders and having fun while taking down gates. And I’ll keep playing WvW because it’s fun.

I feel like some of you might have misunderstood and thought this was about me having a hard time in WvW, when it’s really not the case. Once I started playing WvW I ended up completing the maps, but my goal was to play WvW: map completion was just a natural consequence.

The thing is, even though I have fun in WvW I don’t expect everyone else to enjoy WvW, and I don’t expect other people to play in groups.
As a direct consequence, I feel it’s not my (or anyone’s) place to force map completionists to run with zergs just so they can get their POI.
Plus, I really feel bad at the thought of ruining the efforts of a guy hopping on a vista on the other side of the map from their spawn.

The goal of this thread was just to have people discuss about their own feeling toward harmless red players that are doing map completion.

Many of you say that if you see a red player you want to attack them. So my question to you is “why do you prefer option 3 instead of option 2? what difference does it make to you to wait a few seconds before starting the fight?”

MightyMicah.7451:

Always 1.

The devs put PvE in a PvP zone. I just like fighting people fairly. If someone is trying to get a friggin vista for their epic legendary weapon, I’m not gonna ruin life for them. Some people try for months to get particular vistas, pois, and skill points. To prevent them from getting it a pretty messed up move. Sadly, this is an online community and people find it fun ruining another’s day and then hiding behind the excuse, “it’s a warzone.” That’s like taking candy from a baby and then saying, “it’s not healthy for him.”

To be clear, I should probably say I do the first option and then some. When I see my server trying to kill the person I try to stop them as much as I can.

I really like the comparison.

Also, cheers for your gentlemanly behaviour.

Offair.2563:

Running up to people just to see if they attack you is one of my favorite things. Just run but dont attack, if i see they trying to complete map and not nicking my dollies i need to upgrade stuff, i let them be. If they do try to attack me,well then its just me vs him/her.

So i’d go for nr 1

I like to do the same thing. Rush up to people to see if they attack and if they don’t I just hop around them for a bit, sometimes use a quaggan tonic and we eventually head our separate ways.
For the most part I solo roam and it’s not always red = dead. Of course the majority of people I see I will fight but sometimes you just get the feeling the person will be friendly so you test them out.

As for map completionists, I treat them the same way I treat uplevels. I won’t attack them unless they attack me first. If they make a move on me I’m going to fight back, if you’re just doing map completion you shouldn’t have engaged me. Otherwise I let people get their vistas, skill points, what ever. I see no reason to fight people who either don’t want to fight or aren’t going to be fun to fight. I get in to fights because it’s interesting and exciting not because I want to demean people or feel superior.

If I’m roaming, I generally wait for people I see to attack me first before I fight them. I’m not really interested in chasing down a bag. More interested in a decent fight. I even roam on a glassy guardian for that purpose so that people will actually fight me

people complaining about being killed in a hostile pvp area ? sigh

Liston.9708:

Most likely 1. 2 if they are killing dollies / guards etc. Is it really an accomplishment to gank a pve peep? To me it isn’t so why bother with 3, but to each their own – not going to care if others do it.

Anyone who attacks dollies and points is fair game. So is anyone near to any WvW objective. They could be an enemy scout. Better to shoot first and ask questions later. I feel sorry if some poor scout ranked noob who was trying to kill a yak gets ganked their first time in WvW, but this is a war, not a barn dance.

I can’t be bother going out of my way to hunt down and camp people in out of the way locations, when there is almost always something more important to do. PVE vista hunters with no WvW experience are usually no challenge at all. It’s like beating up handicapped people.