Guild Wars 2

Many people have been voicing their opinion about the removal of white swords but it seems like no one is complaining about PPK so it must be a good thing.

I personally love PPK, it means winning an open field engagement actually helps my server. Due to PPK, last Friday (reset) my server had dropped to lowest PPT but still generated the highest points every tick because of PPK.

Maybe ANet can give us a few weeks of PPK with white swords.

In general like PPK.

Our main fear has been that players will run or hide in towers more often. But thankfully not seen much of that the last 2 weeks. But that might be because we got awesome opponents these weeks!

I like PPK. I would like to see the PPK score though.

I hope they keep it around, I love it.

Nice addition to gain more points wiping kitten blobs with their paper gears.

The PPK should have been in place since day 1, it makes sense to gain points on actually killing your enemy rather than capping an unmanned tower…

Just look at the scores of T2 NA this week and the week before PPK started. It’s for the better so I hope it stays.

Has anyone got any QQ about giving away Points by going yolo against groups or players, especially while roaming?

PPK should be a permanent feature. It allows a slightly behind server to catch up by looking for fights, and this is a GOOD thing. There’s an finite amount of PPT to be had, but PPK is infinite.

Anet, if you’re listening, keep PPK. Give us random fluxes (like the no white swords), but keep this one.

I think it will help for fights guilds add a lot to their servers ppt, which hopefully will help server stability. Of course it will favor the servers with the higher population and most coverage, but its hard to come up with something that doesnt. WvW is a numbers game plain and simple.

I don’t like PPK. As op points out it is pretty much just coverage based. I don’t think it’s in line with the other changes that have come in with the game such as removal of repair fees.

As a commander it puts me in this weird space where I wont be able to get fights or where I wont be able to take them. Without PPK people will often just be like oh well whatever lets fight this will be fun yolo.

With PPK I see groups running away a lot more and often, and when I come across top tier guilds where there is a significant skill/numbers difference between my group and theirs, I’m hesitant to engage them instead of just, you know, trying to play better and improve?

If I wasn’t in a tier with 4 servers fighting for 3 spots, then this probably wouldn’t be as big a deal for me.

My biggest complaint about PPK is that it punishes you for losing, but it doesn’t punish you for not winning, which is to say, it encourages people to make fewer actual decisions. Guild X can’t beat guild Y usually, so Guild X wont even try because why risk it?

Vermillion.4061:

Just look at the scores of T2 NA this week and the week before PPK started. It’s for the better so I hope it stays.

Both show very close matchup among the three. I don’t tell any difference at all.

I haven’t seen any change on people because of PPK… Some still yolo in sure-death fights, and some still run away as soon as their health reach 80%.

I think most people are positive on PPK or at least neutral. On the other hand, most people hate removal of white swords. That said, I predict PPK will end up being only temporary and removal of white swords will become permanent.

Lord Kuru.3685:

I think most people are positive on PPK or at least neutral. On the other hand, most people hate removal of white swords. That said, I predict PPK will end up being only temporary and removal of white swords will become permanent.

Knowing anets style, i wouldnt be surprised.

Personaly i love PPK. My server has been known for being a fighting server and less of a PPT server. Strictly cause of that, we are even slowly going up in score.

PPT is broken, PPK is more balanced in my opinion.

I hate PPK, yet again it rewards zerg behaviour.

Take an unskilled zerg and a smaller skilled group.
The zerg it taking a tower and the smaller group comes to defend.
The zerg slowly whittles down the smaller group, which is able to hang on whilst it’s dead players run back again.
Eventually, after several wipes, the smaller group manages to defeat and push back the zerg.

With PPK the zerg is still rewarded more points than the smaller group as the smaller group suffered more deaths than the zerg. So even though a smaller group was able to defeat the zerg, the smaller group is not rewarded for their skill.

But as usual the real problem is that WvW is just not balanced! And Anet not spending resources on improving it is not helping; making silly little changes like PPK and removal on white swords will not fix anything.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

I hate PPK, yet again it rewards zerg behaviour.

Take an unskilled zerg and a smaller skilled group.
The zerg it taking a tower and the smaller group comes to defend.
The zerg slowly whittles down the smaller group, which is able to hang on whilst it’s dead players run back again.
Eventually, after several wipes, the smaller group manages to defeat and push back the zerg.

With PPK the zerg is still rewarded more points than the smaller group as the smaller group suffered more deaths than the zerg. So even though a smaller group was able to defeat the zerg, the smaller group is not rewarded for their skill.

But as usual the real problem is that WvW is just not balanced! And Anet not spending resources on improving it is not helping; making silly little changes like PPK and removal on white swords will not fix anything.

That’s a bit backwards from my personal experience. My small group can easily kill way more numbers, especially when we have walls and siege on our side. The zerg will usually eventually get the cap by power ressing the dead and pvding the door down but we get a crap load of kills in the process, way more than what the zerg gets.

If it’s an enemy tower or keep and there isn’t a chance to hold it for the tick, we won’t even stick around to fight in lords. We hop out and pick off a couple of the stragglers and then run off.

I’m in favor of keeping it. Not the “no white swords”, though.

PPK is fine, white swords in the other hand, is utter kitten. With megablob servers like SFR and Kodash, we are gaining mostly from PPK, and fights are pretty awesome too. Except for the skill lag.

ppk good love it i really need to start a guild so we can start havok squads of doom on DR again because now havok squads are valuable point generators

PPK is absolute BS, since PPK released every single server (including ours aswell) started up blobbing even more. To decrease the chance that you get wiped so you won’t give PPK to the enemy server.

The weaker enemy server will always try to avoid the combat against a stronger server (atleast thinking about the points view) instead of a brave zerg that yolo’s in an outnumbered fight. Such dedication should be rewarded, not discouraged.

Also the PPK will disbalance the current matchmaking system even further. The weaker server is unable to wipe the enemy and therefor he’s unable to get PPK. Also the weaker server is discouraged to cap enemy towers, since in most cases he will lose more points because of the chance that the stronger server is in time to defend.

Also the PPK supports farming aka waiting inside a keep/tower and not capping the object on purpose just to waiting for the enemy to make a hopeless attempt to save the tower to save all the effort the scout put into the tower. Farming is one of the most humiliating forms of WvW and should be limited as far as possible.

last but not least the PPK encourages cowardish roamers (not blaming campcapping/dollykilling roamers etc) who only wait outside of a keep till an upscaled/player with a non roaming build tries to go to the commander. It’s a very annoying part of WvW and i don’t know a single player who actually likes those cowardish roamers.

The only good thing about the PPK is that gvg guilds feel better about themselves because they feel they contribute to the server, it doesn’t offer a single tactic or whatsoever except for running away from fights. PPK offers zero brain fights instead of tactics.

the krytan assassin.9235:

PPK is absolute BS, since PPK released every single server (including ours aswell) started up blobbing even more. To decrease the chance that you get wiped so you won’t give PPK to the enemy server.

The weaker enemy server will always try to avoid the combat against a stronger server (atleast thinking about the points view) instead of a brave zerg that yolo’s in an outnumbered fight. Such dedication should be rewarded, not discouraged.

Also the PPK will disbalance the current matchmaking system even further. The weaker server is unable to wipe the enemy and therefor he’s unable to get PPK. Also the weaker server is discouraged to cap enemy towers, since in most cases he will lose more points because of the chance that the stronger server is in time to defend.

Also the PPK supports farming aka waiting inside a keep/tower and not capping the object on purpose just to waiting for the enemy to make a hopeless attempt to save the tower to save all the effort the scout put into the tower. Farming is one of the most humiliating forms of WvW and should be limited as far as possible.

last but not least the PPK encourages cowardish roamers (not blaming campcapping/dollykilling roamers etc) who only wait outside of a keep till an upscaled/player with a non roaming build tries to go to the commander. It’s a very annoying part of WvW and i don’t know a single player who actually likes those cowardish roamers.

The only good thing about the PPK is that gvg guilds feel better about themselves because they feel they contribute to the server, it doesn’t offer a single tactic or whatsoever except for running away from fights. PPK offers zero brain fights instead of tactics.

i disagree i have seen several guilds putting together 10-20 man Elite teams to zerg hunt with mesmer tactics boon/condi control and builds built by the team leader to synchronize and its amazing to be a part of.

i disagree i have seen several guilds putting together 10-20 man Elite teams to zerg hunt with mesmer tactics boon/condi control and builds built by the team leader to synchronize and its amazing to be a part of.
[/quote]

Ofc there are always some guilds who create their own groups and start hunting down zergs. The situation you describe however is clearly unbalancing the matchups. You’re talking about splitting up groups and still being able to take down enemy zerg, what would mean that your blob is way more powerful then the enemy’s. There is NOT A SINGLE REASON why PPK should encourage small scale combat. You might be confused due to the whitesword removal which does encourage more small scale combat.

the krytan assassin.9235:

i disagree i have seen several guilds putting together 10-20 man Elite teams to zerg hunt with mesmer tactics boon/condi control and builds built by the team leader to synchronize and its amazing to be a part of.

Ofc there are always some guilds who create their own groups and start hunting down zergs. The situation you describe however is clearly unbalancing the matchups. You’re talking about splitting up groups and still being able to take down enemy zerg, what would mean that your blob is way more powerful then the enemy’s. There is NOT A SINGLE REASON why PPK should encourage small scale combat. You might be confused due to the whitesword removal which does encourage more small scale combat. [/quote]

As someone that has spent about 99% of my time in wvw doing solo/small scale roaming I disagree with you. I really don’t care about the score, I roam looking for small scale fights because that is what I enjoy. Changing the scoring system isn’t going to suddenly make me enjoy zerging.

I haven’t seen any change in the amount of roamers due to this change so you are wrong about, “every single server blobbing even more.” That may be the case on your server but don’t exaggerate things to make a point.

1. If group that cares about points is yoloing into groups where they can’t even kill half their numbers before they wipe then they need to consider different tactics. Fight oriented groups are going to get in there anyway.

2.If a group wants to PvDoor for PPT, they can’t complain about getting steamrolled by a blob if they never bothered to have a competent scout. Blob is 7 seconds away? Plan B.

3. Coordinated groups take out larger groups all the time. Keyword coordinated. A tag about to be hit by a larger group might fare better with a smaller guild group of Necros and Eles on the side waiting to bomb the ever living kitten out of the enemy. Or that 5 man team that’s slaughtering the stream of people trying to take back north camp, even if the group wipes, chances are, they killed more than 5. Just two situations off the top of my head.

4. Apart from a few contesters, if a force is trickling into an objective, or just blindly bullrushing chokes that are clearly deathtraps then they deserve to be farmed. Once again, coordination and change of tactics(seems to be a theme here)

5.Yes, GvG guilds get a chance to shine here, see point 3, they’ve earned it, coordination and all that good stuff yet again. A good raiding guild can zerg bust just was well.

TL:DR

I think PPK promotes awareness and getting better at fighting if you care about the scoreboard(and chances are, it’s not going to make fight minded people suddenly care about PPT). So it pretty much highlights bad zerg tactics lol.

PPK is good since it punishes players that throw themselves endlessly at objectives.

The only issue is that they need to make the Borderland Bloodlust buff more compelling if this would be permanent.

Fort Aspenwood only server in NA who have more than 50% Points not from tick made the match up a lil bit closer while being focused by 2 servers relentlessly.

Src: http://www.gw2score.com/index.php?action=server&server=Fort-Aspenwood

PPK is awesome, but I understand why they did it along with removing white swords. PPK does reward blobbing, but white swords rewards havoc play.

They balance each other out. With PPK but with white swords, you’ll see a lot more “run away” matches where whichever server can field more blobs will win.

PPK is good to a point there must be other effect along with it to make it work right. As we have it now the lack of wight swords lets smaller groups have less risk in taking small targets so the other team must risk there own ppl to cover these small targets.

If ppk is staying you NEED to keep wight swords off or something else that will make the def side take a risk to def objectives. Simply running when you see wight swords from your spawn’s safely is no risk at all and in a lot of ways keeps the game stagnate. Even with ppk (a system to keep points from becoming too snow ball during off times) you must have something to keep ppl active on a map.

That what it all comes down to keeping ppl active in both the def and attk and not let the game become stagnant for the week after the first 2- 3 nights (weekend / reset). The old system lets you hold towers and keeps over night letting the world with the best coverages win out that week. The test set up ppk / no wight swords lets the other worlds with not complete coverages still compete for the week.

let’s get rid of the orange swords now, and also let’s remove the contesting of waypoints, and we shouldn’t be allowed to see the enemies buffs or how much supply their buildings have inside.

let’s do this all of the way or revert back to normal, I know anet can switch it back easily, but come on let’s go all the way!

I like both the PPK and no white swords changes. Hope they make them permanent.

What I’m finding interesting is that T2 is scoring more points than T1 in NA – either T2 is busier than T1 or they die a lot more haha.

Karizee.8076:

What I’m finding interesting is that T2 is scoring more points than T1 in NA – either T2 is busier than T1 or they die a lot more haha.

More fights often result on more kills/deaths… T2 always been known for having more fight oriented guilds than T1.
FA for exemple, at the moment of this post, have 51% of their score from non-tick.

Jeknar.6184:

FA for exemple, at the moment of this post, have 51% of their score from non-tick.

I’m not convinced that’s accurate. I’ve noticed that site has been presenting negative numbers for score not from tick for a couple months now.

Honestly, I think it’s good. Helps to sorta discourage blobbing because if your zerg gets wiped, that’s a lot of points for the enemy.

The only downside I’ve seen is that you get groups that hole up in briar with buttloads of seige for the sole purpose of farming kills. That’s EoTM levels of gameplay.

Wanderer.3248:

The only downside I’ve seen is that you get groups that hole up in briar with buttloads of seige for the sole purpose of farming kills. That’s EoTM levels of gameplay.

• Treb their siege.
• Rush their tower.
• …
• Profit!

Karizee.8076:

Jeknar.6184:

FA for exemple, at the moment of this post, have 51% of their score from non-tick.

I’m not convinced that’s accurate. I’ve noticed that site has been presenting negative numbers for score not from tick for a couple months now.

If things haven’t changed for a long time, then the points not from tick also includes Yaks/Sentry’s as well. Not just PPK points.

in some cases, usually the larger server will benefit more than the other servers with less population

Ppk is good:
A 25 men organized guild team easyli take down an 80 men pug zerg without losing anybody. Maybe the guild cant take the tower but they wipe the outrushing defenders 2-3 times

No white swords good:
While main team fights the 5-10 men teams can take objectives

And somewhy since the sneak attack i see and experience more fights around towers what is great!

PPK is a great addition.

On one hand it’s not that big addition to points as we could see from http://www.gw2score.com/matchups just pick your server from the list and check – “score not from tick” it will include sentrys, bloodlust stomp points, yak killing and PPK ofc.

But maybe in future or with white swords come back when structures will become more easy to defend it will make TICK points more balanced so points not from tick will be more important and it will effect any tier.

Mishi.7058:

Karizee.8076:

Jeknar.6184:

FA for exemple, at the moment of this post, have 51% of their score from non-tick.

I’m not convinced that’s accurate. I’ve noticed that site has been presenting negative numbers for score not from tick for a couple months now.

If things haven’t changed for a long time, then the points not from tick also includes Yaks/Sentry’s as well. Not just PPK points.

I understand. That’s why I think the calculation is broken on that site.

For instance if you look at last week’s NA match, SoR shows that -14.09% of their score was gained not from tick.

http://www.gw2score.com/currentscore/total_score/desc?match=1

ppk good, no ppk bad. (shortest answer possible)

I think the problem with the ppt is the next: very hard to siege a t3 tower with sieges. Its just not fun. Runing up and back for hours…. 10-20 minits more than enough if its intensive

PPK is good, only problem is it gives gankers an excuse now – whether or not they are doing it for the PPK.

The game is called Guild Wars and not BLOB wars.
So the PPK isn’t helping in that at all.
You get now more servers who will blob up then it was before.
And for the guilds that run raids they will face more blobs then before.

And for the lower ranked servers who are playing against higher tier servers.
They will loose with bigger differents then before, because of population on the higher tiers is much bigger.

So change it back to what it was.

MadMan.5109:

The game is called Guild Wars and not BLOB wars.

So the PPK isn’t helping in that at all.

And for the lower ranked servers who are playing against higher tier servers.
They will loose with bigger differents then before, because of population on the higher tiers is much bigger.

So change it back to what it was.

On the other hand, that also means that a higher ranked server can get higher score, and change/adjust their glicko rating faster, to get away from the lower ranked servers (so they don’t have to play against them etc). So there are some advantages to be gained even there.

Better experiment arenanet could do would be to hide the score for a while. See how that pans out.
No more looking at a scoreboard when you are thinking of fighting. Not knowing how far, or even if, you are ahead. So you might want to keep fighting.
Not knowing how the score is currently set makes it harder to strike underhanded deals, where two servers team up to fix the outcome of the match.

Lets try that for a month or two.

Terrahero.9358:

Better experiment arenanet could do would be to hide the score for a while. See how that pans out.
No more looking at a scoreboard when you are thinking of fighting. Not knowing how far, or even if, you are ahead. So you might want to keep fighting.
Not knowing how the score is currently set makes it harder to strike underhanded deals, where two servers team up to fix the outcome of the match.

Lets try that for a month or two.

That could be awesome! And maybe -X% health for gates, walls

Btw since the changes we fight and kill more and more. Mostly 500-1k+ kills a night. The only problem is the long, boring sieges against fully upgraded and sieged objects.
10 men man the sieges, everybody else just wait for 30 minutes or more… Not funny at all

PPK is irrelevant. It is way too small to have any impact. As someone else suggested though, I would like to see the PPK totals for the week.

I think I’ve come around on PPK, but maybe only because it really helps out my server. The bonus is NOT insignificant at all. Our score not from tick shot up to 49%, and it’s letting us stay a lot closer to the two servers despite getting 2v1’d.

The thing about a 2v1 with ppk is that when you fight server a, you and server a both get points, and when you and server b fight each other, both of you get points, but there’s only one group getting all the points in a 2v1.