Guild Wars 2

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

And how would you define a wvwer?

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

We recently had this discussion with a developer response. It’s all good.

Swagger.1459:

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

We recently had this discussion with a developer response. It’s all good.

can you link it please?

Turamarth.3248:

And how would you define a wvwer?

one that spends more time in wvw than the other game modes.

I belive anyone have access to the pool but they only let people who spend time on WvW know about them… Unless you tell to all your pve friends to vote in a pool, I’m pretty sure only people who are actually playing a bit of WvW are seeing them.

Also you gotta keep in mind that the people who post in these forums are a vocal minority, which means that the opinions of the majority are not/may not be a reflect on what is posted here. The mail telling people about the pool is sent to anyone who is actively playing WvW, even to those who never come to these forums.

I think Swagger refers to this.

one that spends more time in wvw than the other game modes.

Would I then not be allowed to vote because I spent only a third of my 3000 hours playtime in WvW?

Jeknar.6184:

I belive anyone have access to the pool but they only let people who spend time on WvW know about them… Unless you tell to all your pve friends to vote in a pool, I’m pretty sure only people who are actually playing a bit of WvW are seeing them.

Also you gotta keep in mind that the people who post in these forums are a vocal minority, which means that the opinions of the majority are not/may not be a reflect on what is posted here. The mail telling people about the pool is sent to anyone who is actively playing WvW, even to those who never come to these forums.

Every time a poll comes out, it gets the banner headline on reddit. Definitely a ton of pvers voting.

I thought that one guy said we’re really into pve if we play wvw?

Yes, anyone can vote the poll but surely not everyone visit the forums to know such poll exist. Also, the poll does record the players’ ID (because it is a anet’s site poll that require you to logon) so if they want to, they can filter the results.

Deli.1302:

Jeknar.6184:

I belive anyone have access to the pool but they only let people who spend time on WvW know about them… Unless you tell to all your pve friends to vote in a pool, I’m pretty sure only people who are actually playing a bit of WvW are seeing them.

Also you gotta keep in mind that the people who post in these forums are a vocal minority, which means that the opinions of the majority are not/may not be a reflect on what is posted here. The mail telling people about the pool is sent to anyone who is actively playing WvW, even to those who never come to these forums.

Every time a poll comes out, it gets the banner headline on reddit. Definitely a ton of pvers voting.

and that’s a problem, what do they care what goes on in wvw? a fair bit of them probably click ‘yes’ just because why not?

Anyone can vote — you don’t have to WvW (although the in-game email only goes out if you rank up during the polling period).

However, ANet also does several validity checks (see the link above again): they look at the overall voting breakdown and compare it to the votes of those who play WvW occasionally versus those who play a lot. So far, in every vote, the numbers are comparable — restricting the vote to primary WvWers wouldn’t change the outcome.

tl;dr it turns out, people who play WvW a lot — as a group — vote the same as the general population.

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

Jesus we just went over this with the BL vote.

A – Just because you disagree with the vote doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong and doesn’t know how to play the game

B – People on forums are a vast minority of overall players.

C – You don’t know the majority of WvW players. You might know a lot but you don’t know a majority. Just because you know 20 people who disagree with repair hammers means jack kitten. There are other players that know 20 friends that do play WvW that think repair hammers would be good for the game.

D – Have you ever, even once, stopped and considered that maybe the people who don’t play WvW as much as you do don’t do so because they don’t enjoy the current implementation of WvW in GW2???? Even if you are high and mighty enough to honestly believe that players who don’t WvW shouldn’t get a say, you can’t deny the fact that someone who would play WvW more after a poll goes in their favor deserves an equal say in the vote.

Not everyone thinks like you. As it was abundantly clear with the BL vote, the number of people on these forums who think they are the WvW gods and everyone else is stupid and doesn’t know what they are talking about are actually a minority of players. Like it or not, these opinions are in the minority as has been evidenced by multiple WvW polls now. Just because you don’t agree with the result of the Poll doesn’t make you any better than other players. We don’t need people with this kind of kitten attitude playing the game. Suck it up, the majority of other players don’t agree with you.

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

Anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias are not a reliable means to predict the result of a poll.

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

OriOri.8724:

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

Jesus we just went over this with the BL vote.

A – Just because you disagree with the vote doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong and doesn’t know how to play the game

B – People on forums are a vast minority of overall players.

C – You don’t know the majority of WvW players. You might know a lot but you don’t know a majority. Just because you know 20 people who disagree with repair hammers means jack kitten. There are other players that know 20 friends that do play WvW that think repair hammers would be good for the game.

D – Have you ever, even once, stopped and considered that maybe the people who don’t play WvW as much as you do don’t do so because they don’t enjoy the current implementation of WvW in GW2???? Even if you are high and mighty enough to honestly believe that players who don’t WvW shouldn’t get a say, you can’t deny the fact that someone who would play WvW more after a poll goes in their favor deserves an equal say in the vote.

Not everyone thinks like you. As it was abundantly clear with the BL vote, the number of people on these forums who think they are the WvW gods and everyone else is stupid and doesn’t know what they are talking about are actually a minority of players. Like it or not, these opinions are in the minority as has been evidenced by multiple WvW polls now. Just because you don’t agree with the result of the Poll doesn’t make you any better than other players. We don’t need people with this kind of kitten attitude playing the game. Suck it up, the majority of other players don’t agree with you.

I couldn’t agree more. Very well said!

It amazes me that the vocal minority on these forums, especially after the massive beat down they experienced on the bl poll, don’t “get it”…… that most people that play the game don’t agree with their all knowing elitist attitude of what wvw should or shouldn’t be.

The outcome of the repair hammer poll really speaks volumes.

Teon.5168:

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

They are allowed to vote. The problem is that since they don’t know the state of the game mode they are just voting whatever because “why not?”.

Jeknar.6184:

Teon.5168:

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

They are allowed to vote. The problem is that since they don’t know the state of the game mode they are just voting whatever because “why not?”.

I know they’re allowed to vote. But some people on these forums seem to think that those that don’t play wvw should be excluded from the vote.

OriOri.8724:

Lightsbane.9012:

for a few weeks now i’ve been skeptical about the validity of these polls, because it seems like things are seen positively that most wvwers i know would absolutely abhor to see in the game mode. if all players (pvers included) have access to the polls, just how valid could they be?

Jesus we just went over this with the BL vote.

A – Just because you disagree with the vote doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong and doesn’t know how to play the game

B – People on forums are a vast minority of overall players.

C – You don’t know the majority of WvW players. You might know a lot but you don’t know a majority. Just because you know 20 people who disagree with repair hammers means jack kitten. There are other players that know 20 friends that do play WvW that think repair hammers would be good for the game.

D – Have you ever, even once, stopped and considered that maybe the people who don’t play WvW as much as you do don’t do so because they don’t enjoy the current implementation of WvW in GW2???? Even if you are high and mighty enough to honestly believe that players who don’t WvW shouldn’t get a say, you can’t deny the fact that someone who would play WvW more after a poll goes in their favor deserves an equal say in the vote.

Not everyone thinks like you. As it was abundantly clear with the BL vote, the number of people on these forums who think they are the WvW gods and everyone else is stupid and doesn’t know what they are talking about are actually a minority of players. Like it or not, these opinions are in the minority as has been evidenced by multiple WvW polls now. Just because you don’t agree with the result of the Poll doesn’t make you any better than other players. We don’t need people with this kind of kitten attitude playing the game. Suck it up, the majority of other players don’t agree with you.

would you poll walmart shoppers about their experience shopping at aldis?
that’s all i’m wondering. another thing, i never stated an opinion one way or the other for anything they’ve ever implemented with the polling. so your wall of text was misguided.

So first of all, the repair hammer and the latest poll about cannons are about trying them out, not adding them forever (they state this explicitly in the poll).

WvW is in such a bad state in so many of the tiers (dont know about T1) that I voted for them to try anything and everything because #science.

There is no way that anyone against adding the things, or the devs, or anyone can actually know the outcome; it’s just speculation. And as others have posted these forums offer the speculation of at most 1% of the wvw player base.

phantom.1675:

So first of all, the repair hammer and the latest poll about cannons are about trying them out, not adding them forever (they state this explicitly in the poll).

WvW is in such a bad state in so many of the tiers (dont know about T1) that I voted for them to try anything and everything because #science.

There is no way that anyone against adding the things, or the devs, or anyone can actually know the outcome; it’s just speculation. And as others have posted these forums offer the speculation of at most 1% of the wvw player base.

Playing time going down by the week, getting extremely stale and boring. Like you I’m all about trying new things but they are just focusing on stupid introductions with zero attention to population, class, or skill balance.

The state of wvw is downright embarrassing right now.

Teon.5168:

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

To put it in perspective, lets say everyone game wipe received a poll that asked “How do you feel about all PvE zone including instances now allowing for unrestrained PvP” Most of the PvE players would lose their minds, and yet, most WvW and PvP players would vote yes because, why not. In this case we will also say that WvW and PvP are the majority population so it’s more accurate to what you’re saying.

Hope this helps.

Nuzt.7894:

Teon.5168:

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

To put it in perspective, lets say everyone game wipe received a poll that asked “How do you feel about all PvE zone including instances now allowing for unrestrained PvP” Most of the PvE players would lose their minds, and yet, most WvW and PvP players would vote yes because, why not. In this case we will also say that WvW and PvP are the majority population so it’s more accurate to what you’re saying.

Hope this helps.

Again, if they paid for the game, they have just as much right to vote in the poll as anyone else. Even with a bunch of ‘what ifs’ for the sake of argument.

Maybe I am missing the point that you’re trying to make.

It causes more harm then good. Each mode is essentially a different country, just because I vacation there once in a blue moon doesn’t mean I should get to vote. It should be sent out for 4-5 days to only accounts within the WvW zones. If a casual PvE person happens to be in there when it’s sent then yes they can vote, once an account has voted they cannot vote again. This way it will give a better picture of what those players that actually WvW want instead of stacking a poll with votes of people who will be affected very little if at all by the poll.

ANet is also concerned about whether voting reflects the WvW community. They look at actual data: what are the votes of people who WvW every day, who WvW for dozens of hours per week and compare that to people who don’t WvW or only rarely.

Turns out, the results of each vote wouldn’t have changed if non-WvWers were excluded. Put another way, not all hardcore WvWers vote the way other hardcore WvWers think they should.

tl;dr it’s a lot of trouble to figure out who to exclude from a WvW-focused poll and it’s not worth doing because the outcome of the votes would not change

Most PvE players don’t vote on WvW polls because it doesn’t even affect them at all.

ANet already doesn’t tell PvE players that there is a poll up for WvW whereas you guys get a mail telling you there’s one.

Stop blaming PvE/non WvW players for the ‘bad votes’

fishball.7204:

Most PvE players don’t vote on WvW polls because it doesn’t even affect them at all.

ANet already doesn’t tell PvE players that there is a poll up for WvW whereas you guys get a mail telling you there’s one.

Stop blaming PvE/non WvW players for the ‘bad votes’

They gotta find something to point the finger at. It couldn’t possibly be that they might be wrong about what most wvwers want.

Here ya go…

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

Portable cannon blueprints? Wow. Just wow. And this crap is winning?

How about a poll about the next Living Story? I’d love to return the favour.

msalakka.4653:

How about a poll about the next Living Story? I’d love to return the favour.

You would problably lose it too and get double frustrated… Just take a single defeat instead of two.

EU national servers

Swagger.1459:

Here ya go…

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

Glad it says nearly. I vote in every poll despite barely playing WvW at all. Most of my notifications about them come from in game, I do WvW dailies and that’s all.

But that isn’t to say I know nothing about the mode, unlike many who will disagree.

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the poll available to anyone who gets 1 rank in wvw? That isn’t that hard to do. Increase it to 25+ and you would weed out the casuals who keep voting for siege.

Sird.4536:

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the poll available to anyone who gets 1 rank in wvw? That isn’t that hard to do. Increase it to 25+ and you would weed out the casuals who keep voting for siege.

Rank 10…

Here ya go…

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Hey guys, since I’m seeing this topic pop up a lot, I wanted to step in and clear up some misconceptions.

1. Nearly every player that voted, plays WvW at least somewhat regularly.

2. Whether they play 1 hour a week, or dozens of hours a week, the breakdown between people who voted ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ remains very constant around the 65/35 split.

3. The in-game poll notification mail is only sent to players who are actively playing WvW. They must be at least rank 10, and have ranked up while the poll was running.

Ah crap Ye I meant 10. Should be increased though.

So if the few people who remain in WvW abhor something, it shouldn’t be added even if it would bring in many new players who normally abhor WvW?

That’s kind of like a dying restaurant refusing to update their menu because the 4 customers that they do have all rave about how great the day old soup is.

fishball.7204:

Most PvE players don’t vote on WvW polls because it doesn’t even affect them at all.

ANet already doesn’t tell PvE players that there is a poll up for WvW whereas you guys get a mail telling you there’s one.

Stop blaming PvE/non WvW players for the ‘bad votes’

Your reading comprehension is astounding, PvE players are not being blamed for bad votes, what some are saying is they shouldn’t be included in the votes. Which makes sense if they never WvW. I have no issues with WvW players voting one way or another, I may not agree with one of the options and will debate it, but I can respect others decisions so long as they are active WvW participants and not some dragon slaying nerd who doesn’t even know how to get into WvW.

mtpelion.4562:

So if the few people who remain in WvW abhor something, it shouldn’t be added even if it would bring in many new players who normally abhor WvW?

That’s kind of like a dying restaurant refusing to update their menu because the 4 customers that they do have all rave about how great the day old soup is.

Those “few” people (you really should educate yourself on just how many people actively WvW) are the ones who have supported the mode through thick and thin. Yes, their opinions on the matter should take priority.

Nuzt.7894:

mtpelion.4562:

So if the few people who remain in WvW abhor something, it shouldn’t be added even if it would bring in many new players who normally abhor WvW?

That’s kind of like a dying restaurant refusing to update their menu because the 4 customers that they do have all rave about how great the day old soup is.

Those “few” people (you really should educate yourself on just how many people actively WvW) are the ones who have supported the mode through thick and thin. Yes, their opinions on the matter should take priority.

Enjoy your “priority” while your game mode circles the drain then.

mtpelion.4562:

Nuzt.7894:

mtpelion.4562:

So if the few people who remain in WvW abhor something, it shouldn’t be added even if it would bring in many new players who normally abhor WvW?

That’s kind of like a dying restaurant refusing to update their menu because the 4 customers that they do have all rave about how great the day old soup is.

Those “few” people (you really should educate yourself on just how many people actively WvW) are the ones who have supported the mode through thick and thin. Yes, their opinions on the matter should take priority.

Enjoy your “priority” while your game mode circles the drain then.

I will thanks.
Enjoy being oblivious.

This icon is here to remind us about the WvW reality. If you played WvW enough, you will understand that there isn’t anything you can do when this icon is present.

One has to love how hilariously ironic some of these threads become.
And no, this isn’t off topic…..just commenting on the thread content.

Nuzt.7894:

fishball.7204:

Most PvE players don’t vote on WvW polls because it doesn’t even affect them at all.

ANet already doesn’t tell PvE players that there is a poll up for WvW whereas you guys get a mail telling you there’s one.

Stop blaming PvE/non WvW players for the ‘bad votes’

Your reading comprehension is astounding, PvE players are not being blamed for bad votes, what some are saying is they shouldn’t be included in the votes. Which makes sense if they never WvW. I have no issues with WvW players voting one way or another, I may not agree with one of the options and will debate it, but I can respect others decisions so long as they are active WvW participants and not some dragon slaying nerd who doesn’t even know how to get into WvW.

Read the comments from the devs again — the outcome of the votes wouldn’t change if it excluded everyone except “active WvW participants”.

Sird.4536:

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the poll available to anyone who gets 1 rank in wvw? That isn’t that hard to do. Increase it to 25+ and you would weed out the casuals who keep voting for siege.

Actually, the poll is available to anyone with an account that logs into this forum and sees the poll.

And yea, that will just add more fuel to the fire that screams that non-wvwers are impacting the polls in some way, no matter what Anet or anyone else says to the contrary.

After some of the glaringly obvious results of some of the polls, you would think that, by now, some people in these forums would get the clue that maybe their ‘ideal vision’ of what wvw should or shouldn’t be isn’t anywhere close to what the majority of GW2 players want, or are at least willing to try, for wvw.

It only gets ‘mailed in-game’ if they rank up 1 rank during the week. But is otherwise open via the forum or direct link + login.

I personally think if your not a minimum of rank 1,000 in WvW you shouldn’t get a vote. It’s not hard to get & just time consuming. All that would show is that you spend a good amount of time in WvW & most people in EotM wouldn’t be that high.

So as a player who plays 4 hours a night, on my newer account, i get about 5 ranks a day… that would mean what 200 days without a night off? Pretty sure I’d be divorced by then.

So I wouldn’t get to vote until roughly 1 year after starting to play WvW… sounds fair o.O … and skillwise I’m better than a lot of gold players who just got that rank from ktraining BL’s.

I agree there has to be a better method as rank 10 is too low, but gating players behind year long wait is unreasonable.

Perhaps something like weighting the votes based on rank range to mean something more … like a r100 would weigh in at 1, while a r1000 would weigh in at 1.5 or even better … bronze ‘fill in the blank’ counts as 1 point, silver 2, gold 3, and so on. Wouldn’t that be more inclusive while providing the cranky vets their highly sought after earned respect as the know it all (yes i have played since launch, but I play primarily on my new account now and have little plans on changing that. I should still be entitled to a vote)

Nuzt.7894:

Teon.5168:

Anyone who has paid for the game should be allowed to vote in the polls, imo. If they’re not a wvw’er, so what? Doesn’t mean they won’t play wvw at some point. They paid for the game just like those that scream about wvw here on the forums, so they should be allowed to vote.

To put it in perspective, lets say everyone game wipe received a poll that asked “How do you feel about all PvE zone including instances now allowing for unrestrained PvP” Most of the PvE players would lose their minds, and yet, most WvW and PvP players would vote yes because, why not. In this case we will also say that WvW and PvP are the majority population so it’s more accurate to what you’re saying.

Hope this helps.

That’s not even remotely similar. For one, the WvW polls are about adding new stuff to the game mode, the “perspective” you give is a theoretical poll about removing an entire game mode. Please explain how you think those are even comparable in nature. The theoretical poll you propose shouldn’t ever even be a poll, it should be an internal company decision if it were to ever happen. I’m also astounded that you think you can speak for “most” WvW and PvP players despite the previous polls clearly showing that opinions like yours are in the minority. The devs have even spoken up about who votes and how much WvW they do, if it was only “regular” WvW players that voted, the results would be unchanged. Your opinion is in the minority man. Learn to live with it.

Hexinx.1872:

So as a player who plays 4 hours a night, on my newer account, i get about 5 ranks a day… that would mean what 200 days without a night off? Pretty sure I’d be divorced by then.

So I wouldn’t get to vote until roughly 1 year after starting to play WvW… sounds fair o.O … and skillwise I’m better than a lot of gold players who just got that rank from ktraining BL’s.

I agree there has to be a better method as rank 10 is too low, but gating players behind year long wait is unreasonable.

Perhaps something like weighting the votes based on rank range to mean something more … like a r100 would weigh in at 1, while a r1000 would weigh in at 1.5 or even better … bronze ‘fill in the blank’ counts as 1 point, silver 2, gold 3, and so on. Wouldn’t that be more inclusive while providing the cranky vets their highly sought after earned respect as the know it all (yes i have played since launch, but I play primarily on my new account now and have little plans on changing that. I should still be entitled to a vote)

Why should someone who has been playing longer get more say? That’s not equal at all. Just because they karmatrained for a couple months doesn’t mean they actally know what is good for the game, and in fact they will probably only want changes that facilitate karmatraining and don’t actually help roamers or other people in WvW, or the game mode itself.

I don’t understand why a few people in this community seem to struggle with the concept that every player’s voice should count the same.

Frankly, since some of you seem to think that playing WvW is akin to having an advanced degree in rocket science…..I would suggest the following for all future polls:

General wvw poll:
Must have at least rank 1000(for every single profession, not for your whole account) in every single character profession. After all, to truly know wvw, you must be high ranked in all the different professions, as they all play wvw slightly differently.

WvW poll concerning siege:
Must have at least 300 hours on every siege weapon imaginable. Only the truly skilled siege master will know what truly impacts siege weaponry

WvW poll concerning EotM:
Must have at least ten billion karma

WvW poll concerning maps:
Must be able to draw, completely from memory, a to scale and accurate map of every WvW map, and all creatures, camps, towers, keeps, etc. This must be submitted to Anet 1 month before said poll, as they will be judged for accuracy. Only the most accurate map drawers will be able to vote. (More than 2 errors and you’re out)

There, that should do it. There will also be continuing classes in wvw to receive advanced accreditation for more advanced polls(balancing, blobs, stacking, etc).

Oh yea, and if you’re on a lower tier and had problems even finding fights over the last year or so, tough luck, as everyone knows that only the top two tiers ever mattered.

Thanks, and have a nice day.