Guild Wars 2

Still nobody haven’t explained why good players don’t have any condi problems. They don’t even use resistance and still no matter how much i faceroll my op trailblazer gear on they won’t lose hp at all. By the way anet pls buff parasitic contagion. It’s bad 1 vs 1 trait.

Junkpile.7439:

Still nobody haven’t explained why good players don’t have any condi problems. They don’t even use resistance and still no matter how much i faceroll my op trailblazer gear on they won’t lose hp at all. By the way anet pls buff parasitic contagion. It’s bad 1 vs 1 trait.

Every one has a problem vs condi in wvw and nothing in this game is balanced off of 1v1 so i would say if your views are on 1v1 they are very flawed.

Jski.6180:

Junkpile.7439:

Still nobody haven’t explained why good players don’t have any condi problems. They don’t even use resistance and still no matter how much i faceroll my op trailblazer gear on they won’t lose hp at all. By the way anet pls buff parasitic contagion. It’s bad 1 vs 1 trait.

Every one has a problem vs condi in wvw and nothing in this game is balanced off of 1v1 so i would say if your views are on 1v1 they are very flawed.

I don’t see how condi could be problem in group fight because your mates remove conditions whole time. 1 sec cast time in epidemic is too long because cleanse spam is totally out of control.

Junkpile.7439:

Jski.6180:

Junkpile.7439:

Still nobody haven’t explained why good players don’t have any condi problems. They don’t even use resistance and still no matter how much i faceroll my op trailblazer gear on they won’t lose hp at all. By the way anet pls buff parasitic contagion. It’s bad 1 vs 1 trait.

Every one has a problem vs condi in wvw and nothing in this game is balanced off of 1v1 so i would say if your views are on 1v1 they are very flawed.

I don’t see how condi could be problem in group fight because your mates remove conditions whole time. 1 sec cast time in epidemic is too long because cleanse spam is totally out of control.

I had to say this many times but i will try to say it better i guess. Power dmg main counter is armor a blut 1 to 1 counter. As things stand power effects cant counter this armor this is know as a hard counter. Condi dmg main counter is clear but the lack of chose on that clear effects and condi dmg user being able to cover there condis with other types of condis (non dmg or simple weak dmg) makes clear more of a soft counter. Ontop of clears having much larger cd over all then the effects that make the condis (armor has no cd on it all though power dmg dose).

So you can have all the clears in the world and still not be able to out do all the condis a person is applying to you. Its only the your condis do not work vs me classes / builds that are the true counters to condi dmg but this is an all or nothing set up that in no way is good for the games counter play. Its like giving ppl 100% power dmg reduction all the time with the right builds say a war getting perma endure pain its not fun to play vs or to even use and super toxic for the over all game.

The current meta is by far the worst I have seen in this game yet. RIP power, no wonder nobody plays it anymore. It used to be that at least in 15+ fights power was preferable because you could effectively cleanse each other, but now it’s just all condi condi condi.
Having condi cleanse doesn’t really help anymore because condi is so bursty, the cast time of cleanses just isn’t fast enough. Plus everyone combines condi with tanky builds and a lot of CCs, which counters power completely. Then you get stuff like perma-evade thieves and the fact such supercheese builds even exist shows how little Anet understands about PvP.
Bring back the hammer train, please!

People have to think long and hard about what they’re asking for. If you remove the effectiveness of conditions of certain classes, what are they left with? When they simply don’t have the skills or the means to survive effectively up close, you’ve effectively destroyed the class.

So now it’s a case of Anet having to completely re-work a class (which you know they aren’t going to do based on WvW), to make the class viable again.

You also cannot place any kind of condition mitigation stat on gear that’s built around survival. Think of a tanky front line running either: Power/Toughness/Vitality/<condition mitigation> or
Toughness/Vitality/Healing/<condition mitigation>

Then factor in resistance and any frontline spec’d healing ele’s. Sorry but no.

As for the Dire/Trailblazer gear; think about the classes that benefit from it mainly Now give some serious though about how might those classes look if it was taken away.. Yes these classes do occasionally use other gear but think about “why” they only “occasionally” use the gear. Some classes simply aren’t built for survivability or escaping.

But the current meta basically is a hammer train meta. It just now incorporates epidemic spikes at select times and celestial Guardians to capitalise on burn stacking – although most guardians are running other things still. But essentially it’s a melee train drunk on boons. Apart from Epi spikes, there’s so many ways to clear conditions now for almost every class.

The main issue with the current meta is how incredibly easy it is to create a group that is impervious to anything but an epi spike because the rate of boon application is just ridiculously high and absolutely outpaces boon strip/corrupt. With the exception of Necro, they really need to buff some boon stripping skills in WvW for some classes. Well, ideally boon application would be nerfed to sensible levels, but that is never going to happen so power creep away Anet!

Offair.2563:

Make condis reflectable, like people with power builds have to deal with it, then we can have a gut power vs condi discussion.

Necros (and a smaller extent Mesmers) and already do this, plus a sigil and at least 1 rune set that I can think of. Theres also the classes like war and mes and rev (and teef stolen ability from mes) that also have access to resistance and more classes that has evades and condi conversion (to boons) which negates most, if not all condi damage. The more boon duration a person has (and its a boon heavy meta) the longer the resistance, and the more they shut down condi builds..

Simonoly.4352:

But the current meta basically is a hammer train meta.

Sure with all the CC you could call it that, only there are no ham warriors or pushes anymore. Everyone just circle-jerks each other from a distance.

Funny enough it’s the case across the skill levels, too. The hordes of new players are too afraid to push and are generally just there for the karma. The more experienced players pirate harder than ever. Sure there’s still some pushing, but all the bigger guilds I’ve seen lately run hard CC condi pirateship so you can’t even catch them.

I don’t know what to do, anet why can a necro with 3.3 k armor and 60 k life do dozens of times more damage then my staff ele on marauder stats?

I want to cry,

Someone wake me up from this nightmare.

Strictly speaking melee still has its role in the meta, even at the upper limit of zerg vs zerg engagements. But when you consider the time and training it takes to hone someone’s skills so they can survive and complement their team, it’s no surprise that the relatively higher skill floor/lower skill ceiling alternative of playing as a ranged condition build is a more popular option for many.

So why don’t more guilds run melee-oriented compositions? Unfortunately there’s little desire for most guilds to reinvent a working wheel. Most wipes are attributed to a numbers difference (at least by the group that loses!) and finding another group to voltron up with is the opposite of the taboo it once was.

Until the community arrives at a common ground regarding engagement sizes and acts altruistically for the common good, I don’t think you’re going to see a mainstream shift back to power metas for zerg play.

Swear to god, there are so many bad players in this thread.

1: You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

2: Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it. If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die. If you change your build to deal with that, then you will be on a more even playing field and then, depending on your skill, can kill him.

All I hear is people who just don’t want to adapt and have anet change the whole game for them so they can win against a condi class. Time and again, there is thread after thread for Anet remove this, Anet remove that, with very little justification. I never, ever have seen anything more than anecdotal evidence in these. The fact that there is so much dissention to the OP and any thread asking to nerf dire/trailblazer should, maybe, let you know that the problem is you, and not Anet.

Do there need to be a few minor, and I stress minor, tweeks? Maybe, and I’m sure some devs are constantly looking at things, but in a sterile environment.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Swear to god, there are so many bad players in this thread.

1: You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

2: Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it. If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die. If you change your build to deal with that, then you will be on a more even playing field and then, depending on your skill, can kill him.

All I hear is people who just don’t want to adapt and have anet change the whole game for them so they can win against a condi class. Time and again, there is thread after thread for Anet remove this, Anet remove that, with very little justification. I never, ever have seen anything more than anecdotal evidence in these. The fact that there is so much dissention to the OP and any thread asking to nerf dire/trailblazer should, maybe, let you know that the problem is you, and not Anet.

Do there need to be a few minor, and I stress minor, tweeks? Maybe, and I’m sure some devs are constantly looking at things, but in a sterile environment.

why do I get the feeling if it was even more broken (let’s say traiblazer had as much condi damage as rabid and still had expertise with an addition of 1000 more armor) you would still say it’s fair. I’ve said the word maddening a few times in this thread, but atm your post is making me pull my hair out.

I don’t know what to do, anet why can a necro with 3.3 k armor and 60 k life do dozens of times more damage then my staff ele on marauder stats?
I want to cry,
Someone wake me up from this nightmare.

ProDecius.2609:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Swear to god, there are so many bad players in this thread.

1: You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

2: Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it. If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die. If you change your build to deal with that, then you will be on a more even playing field and then, depending on your skill, can kill him.

All I hear is people who just don’t want to adapt and have anet change the whole game for them so they can win against a condi class. Time and again, there is thread after thread for Anet remove this, Anet remove that, with very little justification. I never, ever have seen anything more than anecdotal evidence in these. The fact that there is so much dissention to the OP and any thread asking to nerf dire/trailblazer should, maybe, let you know that the problem is you, and not Anet.

Do there need to be a few minor, and I stress minor, tweeks? Maybe, and I’m sure some devs are constantly looking at things, but in a sterile environment.

why do I get the feeling if it was even more broken (let’s say traiblazer had as much condi damage as rabid and still had expertise with an addition of 1000 more armor) you would still say it’s fair. I’ve said the word maddening a few times in this thread, but atm your post is making me pull my hair out.

I don’t know what to do, anet why can a necro with 3.3 k armor and 60 k life do dozens of times more damage then my staff ele on marauder stats?
I want to cry,
Someone wake me up from this nightmare.

Maybe you don’t know how to play ele? Do you just spam water autoattack whole time?

Lot’s of people in this topic seem to be replying form their blob point of view. Well yes then condis arent much as a problem as smallscale.

cele is the new thing on necro, TB/Dire outdated.

Vermillion.4061:

cele is the new thing on necro, TB/Dire outdated.

idk, your much squishier and the power, precision,ferocity, and healing power are going to do all of jack kitten, but that has more to do with how power damage sucks ass atm with any class. Maybe, I have a set of full ascended celestial, I might try it out, tbh though I’ve also heard a lot of good players dismiss cele necro on several occasions, but hey why not. Any chance you could link me a build for cele stats? if not that’s fine, I’m sure it’s not rocket science.

Offair.2563:

Lot’s of people in this topic seem to be replying form their blob point of view. Well yes then condis arent much as a problem as smallscale.

Yes they are, the class that abuses the overpowered condi stats just changes, are you a condi mesmer main trying to delude the truth about how this game is balanced atm ? rofl 20 bucks says I’m right xD

ProDecius.2609:

Vermillion.4061:

cele is the new thing on necro, TB/Dire outdated.

idk, your much squishier and the power, precision,ferocity, and healing power are going to do all of jack kitten, but that has more to do with how power damage sucks ass atm with any class. Maybe, I have a set of full ascended celestial, I might try it out, tbh though I’ve also heard a lot of good players dismiss cele necro on several occasions, but hey why not. Any chance you could link me a build for cele stats? if not that’s fine, I’m sure it’s not rocket science.

I run mostly power necro with a mix of celestial trinkets. Works very well with death shroud, no reaper necessary. You’d be surprised by the little boosts you get form celestial that come in handy.

I honestly don’t know why players run dire necro, it’s quite boring and autopilot mode. New ghost thief if you ask me.

babazhook.6805:

One more time. You do not need to be in berserkr armor in order to do damage in a power build. Nothing FORCES this on people. You can do plenty of damage in a power build without traiting power, precision ferocity.

No build exists that can take down my condi thief or several bunker variants in other classes I run using PVT. Several classes in Dire can condi down just about any build on all classes including a few bunker ones dedicated to removing condi.

Condi in WvW right now is significantly stronger in small scale on most classes than power and it isn’t even close.

I troll power builds with a non-stealth thief condi build. The hardest hitting builds in WvW have maybe a 1 in 10 shot at bringing me down and that is almost completely reliant on the attacker being an order of magnitude better than my old kitten .

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

One more time. You do not need to be in berserkr armor in order to do damage in a power build. Nothing FORCES this on people. You can do plenty of damage in a power build without traiting power, precision ferocity.

No build exists that can take down my condi thief or several bunker variants in other classes I run using PVT. Several classes in Dire can condi down just about any build on all classes including a few bunker ones dedicated to removing condi.

Condi in WvW right now is significantly stronger in small scale on most classes than power and it isn’t even close.

I troll power builds with a non-stealth thief condi build. The hardest hitting builds in WvW have maybe a 1 in 10 shot at bringing me down and that is almost completely reliant on the attacker being an order of magnitude better than my old kitten .

condi plague signet reapers must love you as well as any decent chrono running arcane thievery.

ProDecius.2609:

Offair.2563:

Lot’s of people in this topic seem to be replying form their blob point of view. Well yes then condis arent much as a problem as smallscale.

Yes they are, the class that abuses the overpowered condi stats just changes, are you a condi mesmer main trying to delude the truth about how this game is balanced atm ? rofl 20 bucks says I’m right xD

You owe me 20 bucks as i play mainly a power ranger. Spamming conditions way to easy right now.

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

One more time. You do not need to be in berserkr armor in order to do damage in a power build. Nothing FORCES this on people. You can do plenty of damage in a power build without traiting power, precision ferocity.

No build exists that can take down my condi thief or several bunker variants in other classes I run using PVT. Several classes in Dire can condi down just about any build on all classes including a few bunker ones dedicated to removing condi.

Condi in WvW right now is significantly stronger in small scale on most classes than power and it isn’t even close.

I troll power builds with a non-stealth thief condi build. The hardest hitting builds in WvW have maybe a 1 in 10 shot at bringing me down and that is almost completely reliant on the attacker being an order of magnitude better than my old kitten .

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

When I do run into condi ranger’s, ele’s, engi’s, rev’s, and war’s they are a lot easier to handle than their counterparts running power for various reasons depending on the class, lack of mobility, not enough cover conditions, etc.
For example a warrior without GS is going to have a much harder time landing his burst to proc things like cleansing ire and adrenal health, if he decides to take a bow to guarantee the procs he is limiting his mobility.

A condi thief might become more tanky but if you have adequate cleanse and you don’t blow it early they are manageable. They are also easier to run from if you can’t handle the condi’s. Plus it’s also pretty easy to pull off a non glassy power thief post HoT.

Condi necro might be a little overtuned at the moment but it still suffers from lack of mobility, so if you can kite it and wear down it’s shroud bar it’s a winnable fight. Condi mesmer is something that needs to be addressed but that’s a class problem, not a gear problem.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

One more time. You do not need to be in berserkr armor in order to do damage in a power build. Nothing FORCES this on people. You can do plenty of damage in a power build without traiting power, precision ferocity.

No build exists that can take down my condi thief or several bunker variants in other classes I run using PVT. Several classes in Dire can condi down just about any build on all classes including a few bunker ones dedicated to removing condi.

Condi in WvW right now is significantly stronger in small scale on most classes than power and it isn’t even close.

I troll power builds with a non-stealth thief condi build. The hardest hitting builds in WvW have maybe a 1 in 10 shot at bringing me down and that is almost completely reliant on the attacker being an order of magnitude better than my old kitten .

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

When I do run into condi ranger’s, ele’s, engi’s, rev’s, and war’s they are a lot easier to handle than their counterparts running power for various reasons depending on the class, lack of mobility, not enough cover conditions, etc.
For example a warrior without GS is going to have a much harder time landing his burst to proc things like cleansing ire and adrenal health, if he decides to take a bow to guarantee the procs he is limiting his mobility.

A condi thief might become more tanky but if you have adequate cleanse and you don’t blow it early they are manageable. They are also easier to run from if you can’t handle the condi’s. Plus it’s also pretty easy to pull off a non glassy power thief post HoT.

Condi necro might be a little overtuned at the moment but it still suffers from lack of mobility, so if you can kite it and wear down it’s shroud bar it’s a winnable fight. Condi mesmer is something that needs to be addressed but that’s a class problem, not a gear problem.

I roughly share the same experience and analysis. In the small scale area, most players run power, with the notable exception of mesmers and necros (and, sometimes, rangers). To me, necros are a pain because of their ability to corrupt, and mesmers, because of their ability to kite, evade etc. But that’s a class design.

I’m curious why the above poster doesn’t like power mesmer. If it’s the same reason why I don’t like them either, it’s because of stunlock. Oddly enough, I see far less complaints about the stunlock+burst sequence that makes your toon melt far faster than condi builds (condi bombs put aside).

ThomasC.1056:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

One more time. You do not need to be in berserkr armor in order to do damage in a power build. Nothing FORCES this on people. You can do plenty of damage in a power build without traiting power, precision ferocity.

No build exists that can take down my condi thief or several bunker variants in other classes I run using PVT. Several classes in Dire can condi down just about any build on all classes including a few bunker ones dedicated to removing condi.

Condi in WvW right now is significantly stronger in small scale on most classes than power and it isn’t even close.

I troll power builds with a non-stealth thief condi build. The hardest hitting builds in WvW have maybe a 1 in 10 shot at bringing me down and that is almost completely reliant on the attacker being an order of magnitude better than my old kitten .

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

When I do run into condi ranger’s, ele’s, engi’s, rev’s, and war’s they are a lot easier to handle than their counterparts running power for various reasons depending on the class, lack of mobility, not enough cover conditions, etc.
For example a warrior without GS is going to have a much harder time landing his burst to proc things like cleansing ire and adrenal health, if he decides to take a bow to guarantee the procs he is limiting his mobility.

A condi thief might become more tanky but if you have adequate cleanse and you don’t blow it early they are manageable. They are also easier to run from if you can’t handle the condi’s. Plus it’s also pretty easy to pull off a non glassy power thief post HoT.

Condi necro might be a little overtuned at the moment but it still suffers from lack of mobility, so if you can kite it and wear down it’s shroud bar it’s a winnable fight. Condi mesmer is something that needs to be addressed but that’s a class problem, not a gear problem.

I roughly share the same experience and analysis. In the small scale area, most players run power, with the notable exception of mesmers and necros (and, sometimes, rangers). To me, necros are a pain because of their ability to corrupt, and mesmers, because of their ability to kite, evade etc. But that’s a class design.

I’m curious why the above poster doesn’t like power mesmer. If it’s the same reason why I don’t like them either, it’s because of stunlock. Oddly enough, I see far less complaints about the stunlock+burst sequence that makes your toon melt far faster than condi builds (condi bombs put aside).

Yeah that’s pretty much it. You can kitten up vs a condi mes and recover but if a power mes manages to lock you down you are pretty much screwed. I think mesmer is one of the professions they really screwed up with when they introduced The HoT specs. Chrono affecting cooldowns makes it impossible to balance.

That being said, I would still argue mes’s condi build needs to adjusted way before they look at power. It’s way too strong considering it’s low skill floor. Once again, that has nothing to do with dire gear, that has to do with anets use of PvE balance in WvW, specifically the way they added a passive tic to confusion.

Jim Hunter.6821:

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

When I do run into condi ranger’s, ele’s, engi’s, rev’s, and war’s they are a lot easier to handle than their counterparts running power for various reasons depending on the class, lack of mobility, not enough cover conditions, etc.
For example a warrior without GS is going to have a much harder time landing his burst to proc things like cleansing ire and adrenal health, if he decides to take a bow to guarantee the procs he is limiting his mobility.

A condi thief might become more tanky but if you have adequate cleanse and you don’t blow it early they are manageable. They are also easier to run from if you can’t handle the condi’s. Plus it’s also pretty easy to pull off a non glassy power thief post HoT.

Condi necro might be a little overtuned at the moment but it still suffers from lack of mobility, so if you can kite it and wear down it’s shroud bar it’s a winnable fight. Condi mesmer is something that needs to be addressed but that’s a class problem, not a gear problem.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Swear to god, there are so many bad players in this thread.

1: You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

2: Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it. If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die. If you change your build to deal with that, then you will be on a more even playing field and then, depending on your skill, can kill him.

All I hear is people who just don’t want to adapt and have anet change the whole game for them so they can win against a condi class. Time and again, there is thread after thread for Anet remove this, Anet remove that, with very little justification. I never, ever have seen anything more than anecdotal evidence in these. The fact that there is so much dissention to the OP and any thread asking to nerf dire/trailblazer should, maybe, let you know that the problem is you, and not Anet.

Do there need to be a few minor, and I stress minor, tweeks? Maybe, and I’m sure some devs are constantly looking at things, but in a sterile environment.

All this right here, +1. Thanks for continuing to fight the good fight against the lemmings.

Jim Hunter.6821:

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

Power builds must give up passive survival to get good DPS. Condi builds are the exact opposite. So yes a really good power player can and will beat the snot out of a condi build.

However on average condi brings passive survival unmatched by power. Hence my point that PVT is laughable for DPS while Dire is effective at both bunkering and DPS.

Went against a small group today (abotu even numbers) and outof abou t8 of them, at least 5 were condi. Makes it hard for an old daredevil dog like myself to survive if I need to get close to them to down someone. Def had to switch a trait to do it. Still can’t complain as I have 2 toons out of 9 running condi.

Rambitshouse.8712:

ProDecius.2609:

Vermillion.4061:

cele is the new thing on necro, TB/Dire outdated.

idk, your much squishier and the power, precision,ferocity, and healing power are going to do all of jack kitten, but that has more to do with how power damage sucks ass atm with any class. Maybe, I have a set of full ascended celestial, I might try it out, tbh though I’ve also heard a lot of good players dismiss cele necro on several occasions, but hey why not. Any chance you could link me a build for cele stats? if not that’s fine, I’m sure it’s not rocket science.

I run mostly power necro with a mix of celestial trinkets. Works very well with death shroud, no reaper necessary. You’d be surprised by the little boosts you get form celestial that come in handy.

I honestly don’t know why players run dire necro, it’s quite boring and autopilot mode. New ghost thief if you ask me.

You answered your own question.

If people wanted to play skilled matchups that weren’t faceroll-easy, everyone would still largely be playing core specs and non-HoT-stat gear.

Fact is, at the end of the day, people just want to win.

I’d rather have fun, but that’s also why I stopped playing the game. And why most of the pro players also did.

Straegen.2938:

Jim Hunter.6821:

On small scale I see far more thieves, DH’s, war’s, rangers, ele’s, engi’s, and rev’s running power. The only classes that I see running condi the majority of the time are mesmer’s and necro’s, and even then a really good power mes is a lot scarier than 90% of the condi mesmers I run into.

Power builds must give up passive survival to get good DPS. Condi builds are the exact opposite. So yes a really good power player can and will beat the snot out of a condi build.

However on average condi brings passive survival unmatched by power. Hence my point that PVT is laughable for DPS while Dire is effective at both bunkering and DPS.

When power builds are easily landing 5-10k+ hits on players with 3k armor, the passive survival dire gear is providing is 1 extra burst or maybe a few auto attacks.

Traits/active defense/boons>toughness

Dawdler.8521:

babazhook.6805:

anduriell.6280:

Junkpile.7439:

Yes it’s probably easy win 1 vs 5 if enemies don’t know how to dodge or remove conditions.

which you cant keep up because the amount of conditions some classes pump up is much higher than the 30 seconds cd cleanse the player has access to.

Things like this make the wvw kitten crap.

Can you detail which classes only have access to cleanses every 30 seconds?

Does it really matter? My tempest cleanse 2 condis every shout (using 5 shouts) plus 1 condi every second and regen like 2000+ hp/s when cycling heals.

I still cannot cleanse all the condis from a single reaper that knows how to push condis..

A good reaper knows how to hide those 15-20+ stacks of bleeding behind half a dozen other condis and there are few that can cleanse that much that fast. Even if you do manage it for the moment… well you’re gonna have about the same stacks on you within 5 seconds again. GG reaper.

If you’re on a healy tempest and you lose to a condi player, then you just simply need to get better. I’m a horrible ele who basically just mashes random buttons and my celestial tempest can outlast the average person I come across in WvW in a 1v1 scenario no matter if they’re condi or power. And if I’m losing I also usually have enough to get away and kitten them off by resetting. I still lose really badly to actual good players no matter what build they’re on or what build/class I’m on, but that’s because they are simply more skilled. I imagine if I get myself some minstrels gear I can probably make even the good players work for their victory.

So tempest lose against better condi reapeper player so we need to nerf condi until bad tempest can win. I give you pro tip. If you don’t know how to play some class don’t frigging play it. I would like to play scepter/dagger ele (without tempest), but i don’t play it because i lose every fight. I don’t come here and whine that s/d ele need huge boost because i can’t win against condi reapper who is much better player than me.

Jim Hunter.6821:

When power builds are easily landing 5-10k+ hits on players with 3k armor, the passive survival dire gear is providing is 1 extra burst or maybe a few auto attacks.

Traits/active defense/boons>toughness

Can confirm that my rabid Mesmer with over 3K armour still eats 8K CoRs, 6-9K backstabs, 5-6K meteors, 5-6k Thief dagger auto-attack chains, 7K Rapid Fires. A stack of DH traps has instantly downed me (so straight into downed state) on both my full zerk and full rabid Mesmer.

The reason I take so much damage is because my build does not have access to solo protection. Protection is everything these days. Toughness just feels redundant comparatively.

Spurnshadow.3678:

You shouldn’t be cleansing condis as soon as you get them. Wait until they are threatening your health.

Well since an epidemic bomb kills you in 2 seconds you can clear immediately – or at least try to and fail.
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Whatever build you’re running, no matter how good you are, there’s a counter build to it.

Yep, literally! I guess there is one or maybe even two counter builds to trailblazer. Do you think that’s an adequate amount?
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If you running no or almost no condi clears, and you fight a condi class, you will most likely die.

You completely lost me here… ever heard of reapplication within 2 seconds?

Conditions are dished out like power based attacks these days. After you cleared the first one or two applications and run out of cleanses you are getting outsustained as you fight an opponent with bunker stats (dire / trailblazer) who deals damage that ignores your armor.

Jim Hunter.6821:

When power builds are easily landing 5-10k+ hits on players with 3k armor, the passive survival dire gear is providing is 1 extra burst or maybe a few auto attacks.

Traits/active defense/boons>toughness

The effective difference between 3k armor and 22k health compared to 2k armor and 17k health is substantial. That is effectively 60% more passive defense against power. The cost of that passive defense on a condi build is typically negligible. This level of passive defense also make the active defense stronger. The difference between being two shotted and four shotted is massive in this game.

Sure there are a handful of builds that can land 10k shots on 3k armor with a lot of stacking but those same builds are extremely brittle and can rarely survive counters which is exactly what that level of passive defense gives a player. I tear most thieves up on my condi build but can hardly survive their burst on my power builds.

Straegen.2938:

Jim Hunter.6821:

When power builds are easily landing 5-10k+ hits on players with 3k armor, the passive survival dire gear is providing is 1 extra burst or maybe a few auto attacks.

Traits/active defense/boons>toughness

The effective difference between 3k armor and 22k health compared to 2k armor and 17k health is substantial. That is effectively 60% more passive defense against power. The cost of that passive defense on a condi build is typically negligible. This level of passive defense also make the active defense stronger. The difference between being two shotted and four shotted is massive in this game.

Sure there are a handful of builds that can land 10k shots on 3k armor with a lot of stacking but those same builds are extremely brittle and can rarely survive counters which is exactly what that level of passive defense gives a player. I tear most thieves up on my condi build but can hardly survive their burst on my power builds.

As I said before most of the condi variants can’t effectively build for the same amount of active defense. The ones that can lack offensive pressure.

Power builds are no longer “brittle” in comparison to condi unless the player threw together some kittenty yolo build that relies on catching people by surprise (and hoping they aren’t running passive traits to save them from a burst). If that’s the case that is the players choice and they have no grounds to complain (just like the players complaining about condi that don’t bring condi cleanse).

Jim Hunter.6821:

As I said before most of the condi variants can’t effectively build for the same amount of active defense. The ones that can lack offensive pressure.

Condi pressure builds have both high DPS and monstrous active defense. Evade Condi Thief, Condi Chrono Bunker, Condi Mallyx Rev, Condi Chill Reaper… all work very well with Dire and have extremely strong active defense (evasion, stealth, etc).

Jim Hunter.6821:

Power builds are no longer “brittle” in comparison to condi unless the player threw together some kittenty yolo build that relies on catching people by surprise (and hoping they aren’t running passive traits to save them from a burst).

With a few exceptions, there are very few Power builds as bunker as Condi builds with the same or higher DPS. Most of those power builds actually fall apart against the builds I listed above. In duels, there actually isn’t a class that can consistently beat my condi thief build except Burn Blowup Guardian (50/50) and Mallyx Condi Rev (this wins almost every time).

Dire/trailblazer stats need reduction in vit/tough

Or

Do the same thing as magic find armor, make everyone be able to select stats and take dire/trailblazer combinations out of the game. The risk/reward of those stats are so unbalanced.

Straegen.2938:

Jim Hunter.6821:

As I said before most of the condi variants can’t effectively build for the same amount of active defense. The ones that can lack offensive pressure.

Condi pressure builds have both high DPS and monstrous active defense. Evade Condi Thief, Condi Chrono Bunker, Condi Mallyx Rev, Condi Chill Reaper… all work very well with Dire and have extremely strong active defense (evasion, stealth, etc).

Jim Hunter.6821:

Power builds are no longer “brittle” in comparison to condi unless the player threw together some kittenty yolo build that relies on catching people by surprise (and hoping they aren’t running passive traits to save them from a burst).

With a few exceptions, there are very few Power builds as bunker as Condi builds with the same or higher DPS. Most of those power builds actually fall apart against the builds I listed above. In duels, there actually isn’t a class that can consistently beat my condi thief build except Burn Blowup Guardian (50/50) and Mallyx Condi Rev (this wins almost every time).

High DPS isn’t as important in PvP as high burst and CC. How often can your condi thief land a decent burst, every 30 seconds or so? If you are up against one of the many professions that can instantly clear immobilize you can pretty much be ignored.

I don’t think I have ever died to a condi rev 1v1, I think the only reason you have a hard time with them is because their high resistance uptime pretty much hard counters condi builds.
Condi reapers are strong right now because of the change to deathly chill. In large scale fights they are dangerous because of epi. Neither of those are a gear problem. In small scalle fights they are still easy to kite or focus down, now you just have to be a little more careful to avoid the burst.

So that leaves Condi mes….. No one is arguing condi mes isn’t overpowered in small scale fights, it has been for years, but 1 out of 9 professions being too strong means there is a problem with that 1 profession, not the gear.

The way this game is currently ,balancing is virtually impossible until the attributes include resistance on every class. This can easily be done by having a percentage of toughness and vitality to determine resistance to conditions.This would give toughness relevance again .Makes sense that you need to penetrate armor in order to cause a condition. Vitality is really overall health of the character so the healthier you are the more resistant you are to conditions .plus a few minor changes to some sigils ,runes, glyph s,sygnets, maybe some taits ,and changes of some foods.This wouldn’t cause a power creep but force people to use more balanced builds. Just a thought .