Guild Wars 2

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Elite specializations are just another build option. They’re not necessarily better than the existing builds, they just present different play style and build opportunities.
If you’re running a good build you should still be able to counter most things that people can throw at you. Understanding the elite specs would be a smart place to understand, but the only disadvantage you’re at is that you can’t use an elite spec (which is only a disadvantage if you wanted to use one).

this is completely untrue of engineer, necromancer, revenant, mesmer, warrior, elementalist, and thief. not to mention how much a part of the meta dragonhunter is. Ever seen the looney toons episodes where they constantly bring out bigger guns? Well, the elite specs are the bigger guns.

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Magira.6390:

I have leveled now 7 Elite over WvW. Everything as a solo Roamer. For none of activities for Roamer it needs the elite. I can NOTHING better after I have the elite. For Zerger is may be different, but that is not my part and uninteresting to me.

The difference is more noticable in small scale rather than in zerg.

Where exactly? I am now during the 8. Elite and can relate exactly how long it took each with and without elite for the taking a Camp, Tower, Shrine etc. Nothing has changed significantly. Situations against other players during the day (When I roam, not at night when all are on the road) are so rare that it does not matter.

So you’re judging where the elite specs are based on your solo robot smashing on a freaking PvP map. Seriously? Calgon take me away.

I assume that a playstil that brings the fastest Progress, is clearly one that is provided by ArenaNet for. Not you? ^^

I’m not really understanding what you just typed there. Either way, the OP was asking about WvWvW, you know, the place where PvP happens and you’re reply was “I can PvD (PvE) just fine and I don’t fight other players so HoT makes no difference.” Is that really a healthy gauge for how the HoT specs perform in WvWvW? No.

Your perspective has nothing to do with reality. For ArenaNet WvW clearly is PVE, recognizable by the PVE Gear, the PVE mechanisms of leveling and getting the elite and many others. I would also prefer to WvW would work with PVP rules, but it does not.

Magira.6390:

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Magira.6390:

I have leveled now 7 Elite over WvW. Everything as a solo Roamer. For none of activities for Roamer it needs the elite. I can NOTHING better after I have the elite. For Zerger is may be different, but that is not my part and uninteresting to me.

The difference is more noticable in small scale rather than in zerg.

Where exactly? I am now during the 8. Elite and can relate exactly how long it took each with and without elite for the taking a Camp, Tower, Shrine etc. Nothing has changed significantly. Situations against other players during the day (When I roam, not at night when all are on the road) are so rare that it does not matter.

So you’re judging where the elite specs are based on your solo robot smashing on a freaking PvP map. Seriously? Calgon take me away.

I assume that a playstil that brings the fastest Progress, is clearly one that is provided by ArenaNet for. Not you? ^^

I’m not really understanding what you just typed there. Either way, the OP was asking about WvWvW, you know, the place where PvP happens and you’re reply was “I can PvD (PvE) just fine and I don’t fight other players so HoT makes no difference.” Is that really a healthy gauge for how the HoT specs perform in WvWvW? No.

Your perspective has nothing to do with reality. For ArenaNet WvW clearly is PVE, recognizable by the PVE Gear, the PVE mechanisms of leveling and getting the elite and many others. I would also prefer to WvW would work with PVP rules, but it does not.

I never mentioned PvP rules.

Magira.6390:

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

gennyt.3428:

Magira.6390:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Magira.6390:

I have leveled now 7 Elite over WvW. Everything as a solo Roamer. For none of activities for Roamer it needs the elite. I can NOTHING better after I have the elite. For Zerger is may be different, but that is not my part and uninteresting to me.

The difference is more noticable in small scale rather than in zerg.

Where exactly? I am now during the 8. Elite and can relate exactly how long it took each with and without elite for the taking a Camp, Tower, Shrine etc. Nothing has changed significantly. Situations against other players during the day (When I roam, not at night when all are on the road) are so rare that it does not matter.

So you’re judging where the elite specs are based on your solo robot smashing on a freaking PvP map. Seriously? Calgon take me away.

I assume that a playstil that brings the fastest Progress, is clearly one that is provided by ArenaNet for. Not you? ^^

I’m not really understanding what you just typed there. Either way, the OP was asking about WvWvW, you know, the place where PvP happens and you’re reply was “I can PvD (PvE) just fine and I don’t fight other players so HoT makes no difference.” Is that really a healthy gauge for how the HoT specs perform in WvWvW? No.

Your perspective has nothing to do with reality. For ArenaNet WvW clearly is PVE, recognizable by the PVE Gear, the PVE mechanisms of leveling and getting the elite and many others. I would also prefer to WvW would work with PVP rules, but it does not.

No, no and no!

Please, let me draw you a line. On the line, your position is o.

SPVP———-WVW —-————-…—————————EOTM—-o—-PVE

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

Tobias Steele.2071:

Tiffany.8576:

I think WvW (large scale combat situations) actually requires HoT the least among all gamemodes to be effective, at least for several classes.

Traditional staff elementalist can still run fire/air/arcane or fire/water/arcane and have very good personal survivability with triple cantrips and Evasive Arcana even when running glassy to allow them to output very high DPS in addition to providing water fields, etc. and being able to blast them with earth dodge rolls. Overloads are often not easy to get off in large scale fights as you have to be closer to melee range and you’re very susceptible to being interrupted anyway. I personally prefer running a high DPS build (fire/air – bolt to the heart/arcane) in a large scale group fight setup. Tempest can be used for more organized group configurations utilizing aurashare with proper party compositions but certainly isnt’t a requirement to be useful as an ele, or even optimal in many group situations.

Zerk power wells backline Necro is still a very strong build and one I desire more, more often than not, than reapers. In this pirate ship/ranged meta the traditional backline necro with standard death shroud is more desirable than melee reapers and one I wish more necros still used. Necros are better as a backline class than in the frontline as reapers do not offer that much in terms of party boons or other utility. I’d rather guardians and warriors in my frontline, with zerk necros wrecking things with wells from afar.

A standard stance warrior build without berserker seems more optimal in the frontline to me than anything using the berserker line. A sword/warhorn + hammer warrior with warbanner using tactics/discipline/defense is perfect and adding berserker would actually make the build worse. Berserker is only really useful in niche backline gunflame builds mostly used for pinsniping.

A traditional frontline guardian build is still a solid choice, although for guardians the Dragonhunter line, it could be argued, does have a place in frontline builds as well as specific builds utilizing longbow for coordinated CC bursts.

Obviously roaming is a completely different story and the elite specializations certainly shine much more when building for 1v1 or small scale scenarios, but for general WvW large scale fights I would consider some core builds stronger and more meta than their elite counterparts as I outlined.

Bingo! Someone here actually understands wvw. This is your best answer so far op. Unless you roam, the classes listed above are 100% viable without HOT. Now having more choices is always better but honestly the players saying you can’t play the game mode properly without it have no idea what they’re talking about.

Base PU mes is still a pain in the backside to fight if you roam, but in general having HOT does matter more for that playstyle.

OP asked about (dis)advantage not viability.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Tobias Steele.2071:

Tiffany.8576:

I think WvW (large scale combat situations) actually requires HoT the least among all gamemodes to be effective, at least for several classes.

Traditional staff elementalist can still run fire/air/arcane or fire/water/arcane and have very good personal survivability with triple cantrips and Evasive Arcana even when running glassy to allow them to output very high DPS in addition to providing water fields, etc. and being able to blast them with earth dodge rolls. Overloads are often not easy to get off in large scale fights as you have to be closer to melee range and you’re very susceptible to being interrupted anyway. I personally prefer running a high DPS build (fire/air – bolt to the heart/arcane) in a large scale group fight setup. Tempest can be used for more organized group configurations utilizing aurashare with proper party compositions but certainly isnt’t a requirement to be useful as an ele, or even optimal in many group situations.

Zerk power wells backline Necro is still a very strong build and one I desire more, more often than not, than reapers. In this pirate ship/ranged meta the traditional backline necro with standard death shroud is more desirable than melee reapers and one I wish more necros still used. Necros are better as a backline class than in the frontline as reapers do not offer that much in terms of party boons or other utility. I’d rather guardians and warriors in my frontline, with zerk necros wrecking things with wells from afar.

A standard stance warrior build without berserker seems more optimal in the frontline to me than anything using the berserker line. A sword/warhorn + hammer warrior with warbanner using tactics/discipline/defense is perfect and adding berserker would actually make the build worse. Berserker is only really useful in niche backline gunflame builds mostly used for pinsniping.

A traditional frontline guardian build is still a solid choice, although for guardians the Dragonhunter line, it could be argued, does have a place in frontline builds as well as specific builds utilizing longbow for coordinated CC bursts.

Obviously roaming is a completely different story and the elite specializations certainly shine much more when building for 1v1 or small scale scenarios, but for general WvW large scale fights I would consider some core builds stronger and more meta than their elite counterparts as I outlined.

Bingo! Someone here actually understands wvw. This is your best answer so far op. Unless you roam, the classes listed above are 100% viable without HOT. Now having more choices is always better but honestly the players saying you can’t play the game mode properly without it have no idea what they’re talking about.

Base PU mes is still a pain in the backside to fight if you roam, but in general having HOT does matter more for that playstyle.

OP asked about (dis)advantage not viability.

And I answered. As did many others.

If you can’t read between the lines that’s your problem.

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

That’s good, sounds really social and stuff

Y’all are also forgetting the armor, trinkets, and weapons that from HoT. 4 different traits versus 3 can be a big difference.

I’d disagree that base Guardian competes with Dragonhunter.
The new virtues are just really, really strong.
Its worth it just for that.
(having a decent ranged weapon in a ranged dominated meta helps too).

Reaper is so different to base Necro i guess its debatable.
I would have thought some other elite spec does the old necro’s job better than it nowadays though (mesmer?).

The difference is noticable and if your planning on hanging around for an extended period of time i’d upgrade.

“The difference is noticable and if your planning on hanging around for an extended period of time i’d upgrade.”

Trying not to be negative, but what kind of logic is that? Isn’t that basically telling people to pay for advantage, or worse pay to win? I personally would rather have a even playing field for everyone. Cause that is what competing in pvp in WvW is about.

Or at least it should be, and the reason I wont be “upgrading”. /rollseyes

FONGORE.7410:

“The difference is noticable and if your planning on hanging around for an extended period of time i’d upgrade.”

Trying not negative, but what kind of logic is that? Isn’t that basically telling people to pay for advantage, or worse pay to win? I personally would rather have a even playing field for everyone. Cause that is what competing in pvp in WvW is about.

Or at least it should be, and the reason I wont be “upgrading”. /rollseyes

Shrug
I didn’t design it.
I’d rather have a level playing field too just for a bit of variety but its not imo.
Elite specs are really kitten strong.

Jana.6831:

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

That’s good, sounds really social and stuff

You want to tell me my style. You will be ignored. Very easily.

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

That’s good, sounds really social and stuff

You want to tell me my style. You will be ignored. Very easily.

I’m so hurt!

I would say on your scale OP that it’s anything from a 2 to a 5 depending on your class, role, what you do, when you play and what you fight. If you play a class like guard in zergs you’re not likely to notice too much difference, if you’re a DP thief against a scrapper (or most things against a scrapper) for roaming you’ll be going towards a 5 or more.

Old PU condi roamer and PU shatter are competitive roaming with chrono.
Old DP thief isn’t as good as DD, still good at running around flipping camps, scouting etc.
Guard is the same in zergs as before HoT but roaming is all DH now and isn’t as competitive.
Warrior, same as before for zerging but roaming it’s berserker or go home.
Elementalist for zergs I find old arcane, water, fire is much better than tempest and roaming tempest is better especially with cele.
Scrapper is almost a straight up complete upgrade to base engineer and is the biggest difference.
Druid is much better than base ranger for roaming and so are the new pets, base ranger still OK for pew pew zergs.

The elite specs are still in a lot of cases upgrades to the classes but depending on what you play and what you do the elite spec might be near worthless.

Edit: forgot about stats, runes and sigils.
Stats not having access to marauder for low HP power classes really hurts, I’d say it’s a 4.
Not having access to expertise stat is more like a 2 as -condition duration food got needed with +duration.
Runes there’s some insanely strong ones like runes of durability, daredevil and chronomancer which are great for a lot of things.
Sigils….meh don’t remember many interesting ones unless you play interrupt mesmer which is not very good against HoT classes.