Guild Wars 2

Jinks.2057:

The offer that I made Bunzy applies to the rest of the people who are having trouble w/ thieves.

PM me or post here what your problems are….I will help you out and make you see only tears from thieves.

Who said I am having trouble with thieves? o.o
Its one thief who can do this, if you can do this I could use your help.

Personally i think thieves need a buff.

I mean why should a guardian be able to operate a ram on a door, while getting blasted by arrow carts and aoes, and barely take any damage (passive healing etc).
Its not fair, i try to operate a ram in such conditions and im dead in seconds.

Since ppl r trolling about how thieves are not OP, this is my effort of trolling…

I played a level 80 ranger most of the times n thieves have never killed me before. The trick is to anticipate what the thieves will do next so it is easily countered. I have even killed many thieves single-handedly, by predicting where they will escape when they found the hard way that they are out-class.

Also since thieves will be able to kill a lvl80 full exotic ranger like less than 2 sec, so never take ur eyes off the screen. And I mean NEVER.

See, so easy. So stop whining about thieves being OP and start taking courses on prediction. I am sure they teach this topic in uni or something.

I think the reason thieves are allowed to get away with what they do because they’re the absolute worst class at sieging. Sure they can score some quick kills in the open world if they build into it, but they are less effective then other classes at defending and attacking towers. And any kills in the open world that don’t score their server any points are pretty worthless in the broad scheme of things.

i ve played engineer warrior elementalist dint win a single pvp game , made a thief hoo boy i even got 18 kills and plus per round. im a pro with 2 hours game experience as thief totally was my mad skills and not the class at all.

I played a thief…

f1>d5>d1 and enemy down~

i enjoyed the burst damage very much <3

Thief burst/stealth and DD Ele, the 2 most OP things in this game by far. Mesmer shatter/confusion close behind but Anet seems to enjoy giving them bugs to nerf them.

Webley.1295:

I am happy to now be playing in T1 where people know how to counter my thief

I am on T1 and the elite-thieves there are still hard to kill. One time the 5 of us, one of us a commander, was fighting a thief for a while until he gave up and ran. 5vs1 and the thief still got away, and delayed us for like a minute.

Shadowkx.2738:

Rolled up a thief. By lvl 24 (all in wvw) it is clear this class is broken. The only times i have been downed is when i stop for a teammate who over extended. Otherwise the fight ends when i say it ends. I get away clean, even if i try a fight i can’t win. There is no risk at all. The wild swings at nothing are quite amusing but stealth is a hard counter to everything. It is not hard to dodge enemy attacks in the first place. It is even easier to dodge when the enemy can not see which way you are moving.

Every other class has to risk being downed when they initiate combat. Thieves can just reset the fight. That i think is the source of the problem. Stealth done wrong yet again. When will companies stop adding a stealth class? Anet didn’t even bother to add a counter to it at all.

They did ok with the mesmer blink, but I agree, this is over the top ridiculous. I fight nude (without armor) and just alt-f4 anyways. I will continue to do so until Anet removes armor repair from this form of pvp and fixes the thief to a more balanced class. They need to use the same model in Spvp, upscaled armor along with level and no armor repairs. Oh yes, a thief DOES like to single out those players with the little green arrow beside their name. They need to make a Troll race and that is all thieves can choose because that’s essentially what the majority of them are.

Slic.2406:

I will agree, Shadow Refuge’s stealth duration is still way too high. There’s a reason why almost all thieves have SR on their bar.

Do you know how many thieves, as a thief, I’ve killed while in Shadow Refuge? There is a giant red circle on the ground…my goodness.

People talk like Thieves are some godly class, but they’re teally not that durable. and there are other classes better at escape / utility.

Slic.2406:

Maybe bads should stop freaking out every time an enemy isn’t constantly visible. As a thief, necro and warrior user, I typically have more trouble with the more visible targets, because they don’t die in 2 seconds when I predict their movement. And thief buffs? You mean, buffs to pistol physical damage? That still remains horrible BTW.

I mean.. It’s like asking the other side at a full-blown shootout in Sarajevo to ‘pretty please show yourselves so we can shoot at you’.

You also received a mobility buff, which you did not need.

As a guardian the only time I have ever been killed by a thief is when I’ve been semi afk, or involved in a fight with 2 or more other people, and my stun break’s have already been blown. To say thieves have been buffed every patch is to lie.

Granted as a guardian all I need to do to kill most thieves is to smash my head on my keyboard, but thieves are pretty poor in general at 1v1, the only time they can win is if they catch you with your pants down, and that’s on you. learn to keep your breeks up.

Thieves have taken enough loss to not be nearly the problem that they where a couple months back. In sPvP a small scale combat happens often enough to be in “their house”, but frankly in WvW they really aren’t hammering the world.

I admit, though, I do find the official description kind of funny. Thieves have a multitude of ways to get rid of periodic damage on them. They are relatively easy to burst down if you start landing hits, but conditions are not the answer that counters them.

To all the people complaining about stealth. you know if they restrict stealth more, they’ll just bring out DPS higher(or our mobility). so you’ll just complain about one of those next

Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.

Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….

@bunzy

Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..

I just wish I can go back in time and find the first MMO that decided that stealth means total invisibility in bright daylight out in the open fields.

Doomdesire.9365:

bunker guardian

Can’t kill anyone

, 30K hp warrior

Can’t kill anyone. Only survives 2-3 seconds longer for it.

, 30K hp necro

Might kill you if you run without condi removal.
So basically he’ll kill the warriors

, shatter mesmer

Has it’s own issues that put it up there close to thief level for animosity from the playerbase

, or burst engineer.

Cannot reset fights, cannot escape fights. Do or die. The way it’s supposed to be for heavy burst.

Braxxus.2904:

Doomdesire.9365:

bunker guardian

Can’t kill anyone

, 30K hp warrior

Can’t kill anyone. Only survives 2-3 seconds longer for it.

, 30K hp necro

Might kill you if you run without condi removal.
So basically he’ll kill the warriors

, shatter mesmer

Has it’s own issues that put it up there close to thief level for animosity from the playerbase

, or burst engineer.

Cannot reset fights, cannot escape fights. Do or die. The way it’s supposed to be for heavy burst.

So basically your argument is “can’t kill anyone”. This is based on what exactly? Do you want me to show you some bunker guardians I know that have kicked the royal kitten out of my 20K hp P/D thief? Heck, I’ll give you their name so you can 1v1 these “can’t kill anyone” bunkers and they will wipe the floor with you. Mentality like “bunkers can’t kill anyone” is why you people are getting killed by backstab thieves.

Your only logical argument is the one regarding engineer. The thief escapes much more easily than an engineer. That is the point of a thief. Engineer has it’s own pluses, especially in WvW against groups where a BS thief would get destroyed.

Doomdesire.9365:

So basically your argument is “can’t kill anyone”.

His argument can easily strengthened with only one consideration. Have you ever counted the number of thieves in WvWvW? Do you think that there is a ton of thieves (they outnumber every other class) because they are beauty or because they are op?

I’ve a thief, a p/p thief, and I know what he can do, I now that, with him, I can make things that I can never make with any other class, and I know that WvWvW is full of noobs thieves that win using only 3 skills (and no, you cannot prevent something you don’t see, if someone counter you is just your fault).

Ele d/d is op? Yes is op because he is immortal, but if an ele d/d kills you is just your fault, because countering an ele d/d, or a guardian bunker, ecc…. with a thief is very simple.

Doomdesire.9365:

Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.

Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….

@bunzy

Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..

Question, so why are thieves the only class that is “allowed” to be able to use full zerker gear with little to no risk?
Why does everyone else have to use a tank build, and boost hp as high as possible, just to stand a chance versus a thief?
This is what I’m getting from your post, you must mean something a bit different I’m sure. Can’t say its a compelling argument. Pretty sure that not every class can burst 10875 hp in the time it takes them to pop shadow leap, or heal ability. At which point, fight is basically reset.

I think the real culprit with thief damage is quickness. Or rather the combination of quickness with high damage attacks and stealth.

There was this one thief that started camping me (axe/mace + sword/shield warrior, 3.1k toughness but only 19k health). When he opened up normally, I could block, stun or stunbreak. The fight would then proceed to a reset, or a good fight slightly in my favor (mashing axe 1 in shadow refuge ftw). Same would happen if I saw him actually coming.

When he opened up with quickness, I was dead by the time I could get the stunbreak off (in wvw there can be quite some lag, less of an issue in spvp). Getting 9k backstab crits and 5k C&D crits on 3.1k armor makes me cry, and also makes me wonder how anybody could survive that if they don’t see him coming, let alone if he can pull it off in the blink of an eye.

Yes I know that haste kittens their endurance, but considering the fact that they don’t need to dodge a dead person and they can run like hell if there are others, the drawback seems very limited.

Unless you have very good reflexes and the server is not lagging, backstab thief burst during quickness is unavoidable unless you see it coming (with the exception of some passive traits).

Osaliske.4392:

Doomdesire.9365:

Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.

Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….

@bunzy

Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..

Question, so why are thieves the only class that is “allowed” to be able to use full zerker gear with little to no risk?
Why does everyone else have to use a tank build, and boost hp as high as possible, just to stand a chance versus a thief?
This is what I’m getting from your post, you must mean something a bit different I’m sure. Can’t say its a compelling argument. Pretty sure that not every class can burst 10875 hp in the time it takes them to pop shadow leap, or heal ability. At which point, fight is basically reset.

If you run a glass cannon your victims are players just like yourself. Glass cannon. Its a cesspit of dquishies trying to kill each other fast. Thief is not the only class. Have you seen a shatter mesmer? Ill show you one if you want. A glass cannon thief caught by a bull rush 100B or killshot, shatter, engi grenade burst, ele burst will die just as easily. Its all about who gets first shot. There just happens to be a lot more thieves. My point is that if you run ANY glass cannon build, you’re vulnerable to builds like your own, from any glass. First shot wins. There is no “fight” when glass cannons meet.

Doomdesire.9365:

Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.

Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….

@bunzy

Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..

I can’t see him approaching he is invisible!
In fact because of culling he can get me down to 4k health before I even see him.

Shadowkx.2738:

Rolled up a thief. By lvl 24 (all in wvw) it is clear this class is broken. The only times i have been downed is when i stop for a teammate who over extended. Otherwise the fight ends when i say it ends. I get away clean, even if i try a fight i can’t win. There is no risk at all. The wild swings at nothing are quite amusing but stealth is a hard counter to everything. It is not hard to dodge enemy attacks in the first place. It is even easier to dodge when the enemy can not see which way you are moving.

Every other class has to risk being downed when they initiate combat. Thieves can just reset the fight. That i think is the source of the problem. Stealth done wrong yet again. When will companies stop adding a stealth class? Anet didn’t even bother to add a counter to it at all.

Yep. Thieves need to get some sort of punishment for longer fights and stealthing often. For example making revealed 1s longer after every stealth until the thief is out of combat.

rootnode.9546:

Shadowkx.2738:

Rolled up a thief. By lvl 24 (all in wvw) it is clear this class is broken. The only times i have been downed is when i stop for a teammate who over extended. Otherwise the fight ends when i say it ends. I get away clean, even if i try a fight i can’t win. There is no risk at all. The wild swings at nothing are quite amusing but stealth is a hard counter to everything. It is not hard to dodge enemy attacks in the first place. It is even easier to dodge when the enemy can not see which way you are moving.

Every other class has to risk being downed when they initiate combat. Thieves can just reset the fight. That i think is the source of the problem. Stealth done wrong yet again. When will companies stop adding a stealth class? Anet didn’t even bother to add a counter to it at all.

Yep. Thieves need to get some sort of punishment for longer fights and stealthing often. For example making revealed 1s longer after every stealth until the thief is out of combat.

This is actually a great idea if they made it 2 seconds.

If Revealed’s timer could grow then you would simply see more thieves running pure glass cannon and “1 shotting” everyone. Stealth is the only defense a thief has. All this change would do is punish those thieves who choose to not go glass cannon and walk a different path.

To give an example of what this change would do bunzy how about every time you swap attunement while in combat the recharge on it grows by 2 seconds?

i laugh so hard when i read this kind of topics :
I made an thief lvl 15 – 60 – green – yelow gear – f1 1-2 – dead target
However i decided not to play my thief , cause is too overpowered

Not really sure where you guys play, but where i play, thieves use only shortbow for aoe in wvw and sometimes daggerstorm. You see sometimes an thief with basilik vennom jumping forward you, but he die before you manage to target it.

Killed two thieves who tried to jump me yesterday while running back from spawn.
They appeared out of stealth and I blocked both their attacks. I’m a Guardian you see. And simply continued running with speed buffs.

They continued to chase me and were slowly pulling down my health. So I just though, might as well teach these kids how to PvP properly.
Flipped out my Gs, used Judges intervention (1200 range teleport) and popped up right in front of them (as I had become some distance ahead).
I surprised the guys who had tried to surprise me. And quickly used Bind Black, which enabled me to pull them to me, even in stealth.

As they stealth and then did their little double team spamming thing, I whirled. Taking off 50% of their stupid glass selves before swapping to my hammer and knocking one of the out. When they were dead I checked their lvl’s (both 80) and continued to /laugh

You see. Thieves are a class for people who don’t really know what the other classes can do. They think if they kill in 2vs1 that they are UBER BOSS LOLSAUCE and that they are amazing at the game. But infact, if you remove the surprise element with a passive blocking mechanism, they fall like they were lvl 4’s just starting their tutorial quest.

Sylosis.7125:

Please can people stop talking about how to kill a thief….i wish to be alive forever…..forever annoying you guys.

Anyone who was trying to pin me down this evening in FA BL and failed…i’m sorry.

My ingame name is Miss May Eye…if you wish to duel me in pvp i welcome it, not because i think i can win..but because i enjoy playing the game.

And anyone who is struggling to kill thieves…..come fight me…i will teach you.

Loving the names. Sylosi(s), Miss May Eye, awesome. Someone here has good tastes

http://youtu.be/1-QKqs80ZPU My 1st video on my channel….. i’m a perma stealth thief……sorry in advance.

Levian.6742:

Sylosis.7125:

Please can people stop talking about how to kill a thief….i wish to be alive forever…..forever annoying you guys.

Anyone who was trying to pin me down this evening in FA BL and failed…i’m sorry.

My ingame name is Miss May Eye…if you wish to duel me in pvp i welcome it, not because i think i can win..but because i enjoy playing the game.

And anyone who is struggling to kill thieves…..come fight me…i will teach you.

Loving the names. Sylosi(s), Miss May Eye, awesome. Someone here has good tastes

I also managed to get the following names for my other char’s

: suicide silence. devil wears prada, winds of plague and All shall perish.

Setima.8741:

With school shootings taking children’s lives, earthquakes in the east killing thousands, missile strikes killing thousands more in the middle east, corrupt judges telling us what we should think about gay marriage, unemployment rates still going up and rising gas costs do you people really need to come to a video game forum to cry about how one pile of virtual pixels needs to virtually kill another pile of virtual pixels to satisfy your need to win without effort? /shrug

Didn’t really read your post, but it seems you think thieves are fine. I agree with that.
However, this last paragraph is a bit kitten and perhaps slightly insensitive to some as well.
I don’t know what website you think you are on, but look closely and you will see its the Guild Wars 2 forums. And although there may be a calling for a ‘world issues’ sub-forum, there as of yet, isn’t one, and this one happens to be WvW. It is here for the discussion of all things WvW, individual class balance being one of those issues, so please, don’t lecture about people not looking at the big picture, because really this is not the place for it.

Also tagging on recent tragic events, controversial issues and such on to the end of your post doesn’t help to further your purpose nor does it give your post extra weight. It just leaves a lot of confused faces.

Drago.1634:

If thf’s are being annoying, then they are doing their job. Time to stop looking at thief as a “Punching Bag” cause you cant kill one. Look at your own class and figure out whats great about it. Anet just basically handed you the way to kill a thief on a silver platter.
Conditions and Aoe’s. Also, Stun/Root bam bam bam dead…. Just cause some of us use “One trick pony” BS builds doesn’t mean we all should suffer the nerf “QQ’s” We are fragile and mobile. Figure out the counter. It’s easy. Oh a glass cannon thf killed you in a few hits.. well, if you are a glass cannon build yourself, what did you expect? I’m a thf, not a BS Thf, i have 18k hp, And very rarely does a bs thf get the best of me. Learn your dodge and time it. Other than that… i honestly don’t know what to tell ya.

Never lost to a thief; but kitten if the thief isn’t awful it’s impossible to kill them outside of a team fight. Gap Closers are beyond awful if not coupled with some form of ranged root. In order to get that ranged root you have to give up your Axe/Shield+GS synergy in order to counter thieves by getting a longbow and then they see the LB… dodge when a single arrow fires at you.

Bull Rush – clunkiest gap closer ever.
Savage Leap – loves to rubberband as well as well as create a falling delay
Eviscerate – Burst Skill; not designed to be gap closer
Throw Axe – Cripple is designed to keep you on a target not get you on a target
Pin Down – Requires you to use a weapon that really doesn’t lend itself to a play style and is easily countered by a dodge.
Tremor – Mace OH is good?
Aimed Shot – sPvP rifle is awful
Charge – People use Warhorns?
Shield Bash – Too Short to be useful
Rush – Suffers from rubber banding
Whirlwind attack – Only useful when trying to lead a target

Throw Bolas – Have to give up necessary utility slot to try to counter warriors weakness to conditions
“Fear Me” – 600 range fear… k

All in all; stealth is a joke in games likes this.

Bunzy.8674:

Apparently the new plan is to keep buffing thieves every patch. I mean they obviously don’t listen to the community and just do their own thing anyways.

You do know that thieves have been nerfed a few times, right?

Setima.8741:

…do you people really need to come to a video game forum to cry about how one pile of virtual pixels needs to virtually kill another pile of virtual pixels to satisfy your need to win without effort? /shrug

No, but I question why so many need to defend their current ability to kill those other virtual pixels without effort.

And I talk about those other things with my friends and family. I’m here because I want to talk about a game. Not that I personally mind folks making threads and discussing those things, because let’s be honest, they are MUCH more important than the video game. But please don’t presume us callous or judge our intent as we carry on our lives how we see fit.

either nerf stealth, or buff revealed

Its fine that a thief can initiate a fight from stealth
Its fine that a thief can leave a fight using stealth
That is what stealth should be for

Its not fine that a thief can spend the majority of a fight IN stealth, for every 1 second of stealth there should be 10 seconds of revealed.

Setima.8741:

And the crying continues, even when Anet finally comes out and tells you guys how it is, how they want the class to be, you still search for more excuses as to why a Thief is OP and not just you sucking at the game.

They are not how they tell us they want the thieves to be. They need permastealth because they are squishy? Tell that a mesmer. Light armor and no stealth. I don’t have anything against the stealth mechanic, but it needs a nerf. Revealed needs to be increased. Either permanently by 1 or 2 seconds, or slightly increasing during the fight. Rest is ok.

And again here it is, you don’t like X mechanic so it must be the problem as to why I CAN’T WIN! See here’s the best part, you can win, they die as fast as any other glass cannon, and in some cases, even faster. You can make up as many excuses as you want as to why X needs to be nerfed and all you’re still doing is voicing why it gives YOU trouble. It’s not giving 99.9% of the rest of the people who don’t suck trouble, because I don’t see them here on this forum whining about it. It’d be one thing if instead of 200 posts and 2000 views on a post it was 350,000 posts and 4,000,000 views, but it’s not. It’s the kids who want X nerfed so they can eat their cake and have it too.

It’s not the game, it’s the players, and it’s been this way ever since the RPG mentality started. Anything and everything that people see as overpowered is immediately jumped on, and in this case, it’s the history of Stealth mechanics. And when companies start to balance around either Stealth or Burst damage, they don’t get it right and the class dies. Rogue in Rift=Dead. Witch Elf in Warhammer=Dead. The only Stealth type that is still around is the Rogue in World of Warcraft and right now they’re dead last in usefulness (again, according to players). The only reason they never completely died off is because the way Blizzard made every class almost able to do everything. Now the Rogue can half tank, can be DPS and has a much passive healing as a gd Druid kitten They’ve turned all the interesting classes into one big ball of shiet with only a handful of skills reminding you that you even have classes at all.

I’m fine with taking Stealth away, I don’t need it, and if they left it behind, much more fun for me. You know why? Because if they took it out, if they change it completely, whatever they do, YOU people will still cry about losing to them. If you’re not crying about Stealth, it’d be Burst Damage. If you don’t cry about Burst Damage, it’d be Condition Damage. If it was just kittening auto attack, you’d cry about that. I’m indifferent about the whole damn mess because the world keeps on spinning regardless of what any of you or I want, it upsets me because there’s barely even a decent argument or solution presented by anybody in any of these forums. It’s all still boiling down to “you lost, you’re upset, you’re crying about it”

And yes looking at real world events should be things normal humans do, whether you like it or not, this is still a video game and none of what you waste your time, anger or frustration on means anything at all here. So rather than worrying to death, and crying to everybody that you’re the victim, that there’s nothing wrong with you, it’s always something else or someone else’s fault, maybe you should step back, breath and move on. Enjoy the game as it is, for what it is, or don’t play it.

The recent patch for thieves did not provide a buff to any spec currently being used. The purpose of it was clearly to diversify the range of specs possible. I am not 100% sure this goal was achieved, but I understand it. Before, not too many people were using dual pistols so they chose to buff useless pistol traits to something that may at least be viable in some sense. They also buffed a trait that provided stealth when you took over 20% of your hp as damage in a single hit, so that it is now 10% hp. This is because mathematically even if you had only 15k life it is quite rare to take over 3k in one hit, where most 3k hits were the result of a channel that did not trigger the trait.

In terms of theives having mobility and stealth, they buffed the run speed in stealth for this purpose. I would say this is in a trait line that isn’t specced by burst thieves all that often. Acrobatics does not do too much to increase your damage. When I specced full burst then swapped to go for 10 in acrobatics for the run speed in stealth and also to pick up stealth traits in shadow arts, my heartseeker dropped 200 base damage (which is 400 on a crit) and backstab also dropped around the same.

I understand that a squishy thief becomes reasonably survivable through stealth. However, it is important not to mix up an actual survivability tank specced thief with bleed stacking/caltrops/dodging/stealth for a burst thief. The former is very survivable and the ones you see on the front lines in wvw with the guardians and just not dying. The latter uses stealth and utility to get out of bad situations since they cannot take the same amount of hits. You cannot have 3k armour and high hp and do great burst. The burst specs generally have 2k or less armour and anywhere from 14 – 16k hp. The full glass cannon spec has almost no mobility and no stealth, which is why it is not really used because it involves a full trade off for more damage (the spec is basically 30 DA, 30 crit strikes, then 10 in trickery using D/D).

Setima.8741:

And again here it is, you don’t like X mechanic so it must be the problem as to why I CAN’T WIN! See here’s the best part, you can win, they die as fast as any other glass cannon, and in some cases, even faster. You can make up as many excuses as you want as to why X needs to be nerfed and all you’re still doing is voicing why it gives YOU trouble. It’s not giving 99.9% of the rest of the people who don’t suck trouble, because I don’t see them here on this forum whining about it. It’d be one thing if instead of 200 posts and 2000 views on a post it was 350,000 posts and 4,000,000 views, but it’s not. It’s the kids who want X nerfed so they can eat their cake and have it too.

It’s not the game, it’s the players, and it’s been this way ever since the RPG mentality started. Anything and everything that people see as overpowered is immediately jumped on, and in this case, it’s the history of Stealth mechanics. And when companies start to balance around either Stealth or Burst damage, they don’t get it right and the class dies. Rogue in Rift=Dead. Witch Elf in Warhammer=Dead. The only Stealth type that is still around is the Rogue in World of Warcraft and right now they’re dead last in usefulness (again, according to players). The only reason they never completely died off is because the way Blizzard made every class almost able to do everything. Now the Rogue can half tank, can be DPS and has a much passive healing as a gd Druid kitten They’ve turned all the interesting classes into one big ball of shiet with only a handful of skills reminding you that you even have classes at all.

I’m fine with taking Stealth away, I don’t need it, and if they left it behind, much more fun for me. You know why? Because if they took it out, if they change it completely, whatever they do, YOU people will still cry about losing to them. If you’re not crying about Stealth, it’d be Burst Damage. If you don’t cry about Burst Damage, it’d be Condition Damage. If it was just kittening auto attack, you’d cry about that. I’m indifferent about the whole damn mess because the world keeps on spinning regardless of what any of you or I want, it upsets me because there’s barely even a decent argument or solution presented by anybody in any of these forums. It’s all still boiling down to “you lost, you’re upset, you’re crying about it”

And yes looking at real world events should be things normal humans do, whether you like it or not, this is still a video game and none of what you waste your time, anger or frustration on means anything at all here. So rather than worrying to death, and crying to everybody that you’re the victim, that there’s nothing wrong with you, it’s always something else or someone else’s fault, maybe you should step back, breath and move on. Enjoy the game as it is, for what it is, or don’t play it.

Some bullet points to address this:

- If it’s simply a matter of, “you lost, you’re upset, you’re crying about it” then explain why there aren’t threads on page 1 looking in depth to the reason why everyone gets rolled over by Engineers? Or Necros? Or Mages? Or Guardians? Or Elementalists? Or Mesmers? Or Warriors? Or Rangers? Why do thieves continue to be a hot issue? Is it because somehow, all the inept morons rolled every class but thief, and all the genius keyboard ninjas rolled thief?

- What do the raw numbers of posts have to do with anything? There may not be 350,000 people on the forum, and that’s the number you want to get a ‘feel’ for the community? Why not form an opinion off of what you DO see, because that’s all you can do. And what I DO see is one class forum that has a thread started by a developer specifically to discuss gameplay and feedback. Which happens to currently have over 1000 replies.

- Of course people are going to jump all over what they see as “overpowered.” If your class has to put out 1/2 the effort or skill to achieve the same results as my class, why am I playing my class (from a pure performance standpoint).

- Who cares what other games have failed with in the past? Right now, in this game, is the time to get it right. Stealth has a place. It just doesn’t have a place as the end-all be-all bastion of power that it is today. I have faith that there are smart people who can design it to be fun, rewarding, and balanced.

florence.1674:

I just wish I can go back in time and find the first MMO that decided that stealth means total invisibility in bright daylight out in the open fields.

you’re right, its not stealth its invisibility. Its something a mage or wizard would have. I’ve never liked it in any MMO I’ve played because it gives players such an advantage.

but thieves are telling everyone thieves are fine, just a L2P issue. Anet is telling everyone you just use AoE and conditions. Don’t they know how long the cooldowns are on AoE and how little damage they do. The AoE on my guardian is a tiny little circle, my mesmer AoE is on a very long CD, My Hunter AoE hardly does any damage at all.

its just stupid they haven’t solved this problem by now.

Thobek.1730:

florence.1674:

I just wish I can go back in time and find the first MMO that decided that stealth means total invisibility in bright daylight out in the open fields.

you’re right, its not stealth its invisibility. Its something a mage or wizard would have. I’ve never liked it in any MMO I’ve played because it gives players such an advantage.

but thieves are telling everyone thieves are fine, just a L2P issue. Anet is telling everyone you just use AoE and conditions. Don’t they know how long the cooldowns are on AoE and how little damage they do. The AoE on my guardian is a tiny little circle, my mesmer AoE is on a very long CD, My Hunter AoE hardly does any damage at all.

its just stupid they haven’t solved this problem by now.

That’s exactly how I feel when I play my thief. I feel more like an illusionary mage than anything else.

Bunzy.8674:

Doomdesire.9365:

Guess you guys have never seen a proper D/D ele, bunker guardian, 30K hp warrior, 30K hp necro, shatter mesmer, or burst engineer.

Get some vitality and tank builds going. Glass cannon builds are not for WvW. Running a glass cannon build is asking for it. Learn to counter a thief. Countering backstab thieves is 100% L2P issue. There are other thief builds that are more deadly, and less prone to easy counters. Backstab thief is…horribly inefficient….

@bunzy

Mist form when he gets in range of steal. You will see him approaching you. If he’s in stealth and approaching you it screws up the entire chain with revealed. Then knock his kitten down with the electric charge elementalists have and kill. A thief like that undoubtedly has 10875 HP considering no boosts..

I can’t see him approaching he is invisible!
In fact because of culling he can get me down to 4k health before I even see him.

If you’ve seen 99% of the thief videos, and this is coming from myself as a FORMER backstab thief, thieves rarely approach people form behind in stealth. They just walk up, yet people have horrible situational awareness. Thieves don’t approach in stealth simply because it ruins their chain. If you attack in stealth your cnd will interrupt your stealth giving you revealed and not allowing backstab. You can approach in stealth, but you’d have to make an educated guess because you can’t control when you leave stealth, otherwise you get revealed. With backstab it’s all about timing.

People, you need to look behind yourself when alone in WvW. I’ve seen too many videos where a thief stalks a player for too long by just walking behind them.

Anet has shown they don’t really understand how their classes are played or how they function in general. This descriptions are a great example of this.

the concept of a nonvisible class in a vision based game has always been hilarious.
for the most part it’s a safety blanket, helps covering flaws in playstyle/execution or grants unfair advantages.
it’s a valid feature against npc as those use an auto-target system.
in any sort of player vs player combat the max. “invisibility” acceptable are smoke bombs, flash bangs, etc. aka things disrupting visuals (or messmer illusions).

the thought process of ANET is pretty “strange”:
aoe, already sub optimal in PvP-combat as players tend to move out of it (unlike most NPC), now bundeled with a “guess-which-area-he’s-in” game and high mobility?!
logic’s for kitten?!

any “l2p” or other discussions besides game(play) design issues miss the mark, esp. bullkitten about playerskill in various brackets.

want to experience another failed class, go play TF2, pick a spy and get to kill players not based on your FPS-skill but on class design.

there are good reasons most competitive games have some sort of competition mod/ruleset to remove “genius” design ideas contradicting good competition…no sight of that in GW2.
WvW – where competion is just an illusion (even teamsize anybody?!)

Just require thief adrenaline to build from combat, not passive. That way they cant stealth, wait for it to build to max then spam all their high burst, stealth, repeat. U want to engage in combat for high burst, require them to be IN combat to be able to do it. Kinda like all the other classes have to do with similar mechanics.

Dred, nice work-around but the problem remains, why gift an overpowered ability to just one class?

Rake.7169:

Dred, nice work-around but the problem remains, why gift an overpowered ability to just one class?

Well, Mesmers can also stealth. But: with long cooldowns inbetween. The stealth is fine. The permastealthing of a thief is just annoying.

A few days ago it took us 12 people to kill 1 thief in the jumping puzzle. He backstabbed one person, stealthed, got out of battle without problems and attacked again. We never caught him. With longer cooldowns inbetween it would’ve been possible.

If 12 people can’t kill 1 guy… then all 12 are either total noobs or the class is just overpowered regarding this mechanic.

Mister Mustard~ it’s obvious why people aren’t complaining (even though they are) about the other classes, because they don’t have Stealth. People think if they nerf Stealth, that somehow everything will be just fine. It won’t. People have already proven that. People were crying about Rangers having their Haste+SB combo until it got nerfed because Rangers had “too much haste it’s overpowered!” People have yelled and screamed about Bull’s Rush>100B and it’s still there and still just as noob friendly, but that’s okay because it’s harder to set up due to being able to “see” the Warrior.

The biggest problem of course is WvW, if it didn’t exist, I think PvP would be pretty balanced. Nobody is complaining about the Thief except for WvW when Anet has already shown WvW is just PvE with some zerg rushes running around accomplishing nothing but epeen waving (ooo my team has more meaningless points than yours!). They didn’t even bother to give us all the cool armor and weapons that sPvP/tPvP has but made the entire ONE set take months and months of grinding to obtain. You don’t have to look far to see where Anet is focusing, and it’s sure as heck not WvW Thieves.

And “effort” in a video game is subjective. To me a Thief takes above average skill to kill above average players, but I could say the same for all the classes. I really haven’t had trouble killing bad players on my Necro, Warrior, Ranger, Thief or Elementalist. I’d gladly agree with making the Thief almost impossible to play as long as I get to completely destroy any and all other classes once I master it. As an example, Akira Yuki from Virtua Fighter. Hardest character to master, yet nigh unbeatable once played at a grandmaster level (except against another Akira of equal skill perhaps). But that won’t happen since in a good business sense, you want any and all classes to be easily available to use by all levels of players, so of course by design, people will tend to gravitate toward the “best” at killing people, which again is still subjective. What is the best way to kill somebody? Fear you into dot strings? Instantly kill you with a 5 second cast spell from 1200 range? Maybe a bunch of combo hits strung together ending in an Ultra? Each to their own I guess! /shrug

rootnode.9546:

Rake.7169:

Dred, nice work-around but the problem remains, why gift an overpowered ability to just one class?

Well, Mesmers can also stealth. But: with long cooldowns inbetween. The stealth is fine. The permastealthing of a thief is just annoying.

A few days ago it took us 12 people to kill 1 thief in the jumping puzzle. He backstabbed one person, stealthed, got out of battle without problems and attacked again. We never caught him. With longer cooldowns inbetween it would’ve been possible.

If 12 people can’t kill 1 guy… then all 12 are either total noobs or the class is just overpowered regarding this mechanic.

Longer cooldown, could make thieves absolutely worthless at everything but quick kills to single targets. Any hits to stealth does hurt a bit to burst builds, but it hurts non-burst builds 10 times worse.