Guild Wars 2

Reasons to defend a tower

I think a problem is: it gets boring quite fast to defend a tower when no one is attacking. WXP for repairing is only a small step to reward you for staying. Some spontaneous ideas:

• if you take a tower a skill-challenge spawns in the tower. So there is an activity which keeps you there for a while. This is only a small addition and wouldn’t be enough, but a first step.
• when you take a tower follow up events spawn in very close proximity to that tower. examples:
• collect pieces of rubble (collect event) – reward: Karma, Gold, A random piece of loot + all walls auto-repair slowly.
• train the staff (similar to the southern Queensdale training heart-quests; you train NPCs inside the keep by using environmental weapons) – reward: Karma, Gold, a random piece of loot + stronger NPC-guards.

all in all there could be 10-15 different activities per keep – some of those unique to the specific keep where you are. This would keep a lot of people in the proximity of newly taken keeps and would make it easier to defend those from zergs.

Yeah, kinda like it. All need to make sense, like your training idea and all should improve the tower as well as reward the player. Should not be so distracting though they take a player away from observing/guarding.

Jong.5937:

Yeah, kinda like it. All need to make sense, like your training idea and all should improve the tower as well as reward the player. Should not be so distracting though they take a player away from observing/guarding.

you could have a NPC-watchmen who cries: “enemy in sight!!”

grrr…. stop turning pvp into more pve… Can’t think of anything worse. Besides if you are busy doing some event thing inside the fort then you are not really looking at what is happening elsewhere… making it easier to attack.

The easiest trick in the book is to wait until the centaur or skritt attack a supply camp and then come in behind them after the scout has confirmed it is not a real attack.

Worst wvw idea ever.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

grrr…. stop turning pvp into more pve… Can’t think of anything worse.

Worst wvw idea ever.

The breakout-events are PvE too, and they are a very good addition to WvW. May I ask: what would you do to make people defending a tower? More XP, Gold and Karma? Come on – people standing around and waiting in a keep is just the most boring thing I could imagine.

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

well before they changed the sword thing… you didn’t need anyone standing around waiting… you just kept an eye on the map. Sure you got fooled a few times by people banging on doors while passing (still happens).

So my suggestion is that you just remove the sword delay. and return it to how it was before.

Alternatively you can do what Viz do which is to pay people to wait… or you can do what we do, which is to rotate every 20mins or leave someone who is semi akitten to just check the walls if swords appear (people doing work on their computers or eating but listening to the teamspeak).

by the way, it is not the worst idea anymore… someone else suggested a dungeon that is only accessible to the server in the lead (aka pve content that is reliant on wvw results).

Kimbald.2697:

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

I have nothing against better rewards for defenders… people running supply, fixing walls, building siege, ordering upgrades etc. I just don’t think there should be any pve event content added.

They need to make it so IF you do try and defend up on the wall, you actually can.. and not have it the way it is now… total death for going near the edge.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Kimbald.2697:

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

I have nothing against better rewards for defenders… people running supply, fixing walls, building siege, ordering upgrades etc. I just don’t think there should be any pve event content added.

I didn’t go into the specific changes because I’m not totally sold on the OP’s suggestions myself.

We already have grubs, spirits and harpies that I would like to have some WvW function aside loot…
Not sure if I want more pve unless it really REALLY serves a WvW purpose.

And the argument that it coud distract from the actual watching for incoming is also true.

More enemy patrols could be an idea, or simply better rewards for those bothering to do the boring stuff.

What if a defender scouting, repairing, ticking siege, etc could get a full dailies worth of activities done just by that?
You would have more people actually doing those activitis, and still reward the ones who bother with it anyhow.
We’re halfway there with those things, but there is still a lot room for improvement.

What will it take for the ‘defenders’ to get it?

Nobody is asking you to sit in towers and keeps. It is not the intention that you’ll spend an hour just sitting there “refreshing the siege” and waiting.

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want. You can respond by entering and setting up a counter-siege, pushing out the “doors”, or just deal with it directly and hit them from behind, or you can take something else to make a trade if you think it’s best…. the thing is, nobody is asking you to do boring stuff (the devs or your fellow players) so why do you think we should make that boring stuff more interesting?

It’s not distracting if the events get paused the moment the walls take damage

Nympfh: you’re saying that someone has to do the boring job, I’m saying: get rid of boring stuff and add something which gets people actually playing the game WHILE defending a keep. You don’t have to do this PvE at all, some would love to do it nontheless because they feel important defending a keep and they won’t be like “I have to do this because no one else does”, instead: “I love this activities + defending my side”

The game should have something to do for each kind of role: attackers, defenders and scouts

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

So you are saying everybody is the same and everybody loves to run with the zerg? Seriously? I have quite a few friends who love defending towers because they don’t die that fast and feel safe(er) in there. They just get bored quite fast when no enemy is around.

As someone who spent a good majority of the previous week scouting, I actually kitten OP’s idea.

Zosk.5609:

What will it take for the ‘defenders’ to get it?

Nobody is asking you to sit in towers and keeps. It is not the intention that you’ll spend an hour just sitting there “refreshing the siege” and waiting.

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want. You can respond by entering and setting up a counter-siege, pushing out the “doors”, or just deal with it directly and hit them from behind, or you can take something else to make a trade if you think it’s best…. the thing is, nobody is asking you to do boring stuff (the devs or your fellow players) so why do you think we should make that boring stuff more interesting?

if an enemy group, or zerg, is at a tower hitting the door, you are usually too late unless someone called incoming as they arrive.

Actively responding to a tower being under attack is a myth. If no one was there in the first place, you are almost always too late.

And before you can build siege when you get in, IF you get in… you need a few people there and you need supplies.
Most towers are upgrading and have next to no supplies you can use, so you need several people bringing them in.

With rams or golems at your door, actively defending means you’re too late in most cases.

If someone is there who calls incoming AND can man an ac till the ‘actively defending’ group arrives… than you have a chance of slowing them.
In other cases it’s pure luck of the draw that you happen to be near.

Bottom line: actively defending only works if there are those few invisable ones passively defending already. Else you never know in time.

Defending is as essential task that is frequently neglected and having everyone run with the zerg is the opposite of what is needed. It is the temptation of the zerg that can leave stuff abandoned and neglected.

I agree defending should not mean sitting in towers. It is better to patrol, keep eyes open, upgrade towers and camps, build siege, respond as needed and protect dolys as you go. But still few find it sufficiently rewarding. It’s a fact!

I took the OPs idea as a broad concept of “how about things to keep people interested in defending whilst actively helping the tower” rather than being too prescriptive about what those things should be. As such it is really little different to fixing a wall, just more interesting and less time specific.

Why should some upgrades not be possible without hard cash, but instead be due to some possible fun activity? I think it’s worth exploring. But we do, I agree, need to ensure it does not distract defenders so they get hit by surprise while playing some mini-game!

Kimbald.2697:

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

Agreed. Fighting on the walls is already a kittened experience in WvWvW (seriously, they really should revamp defending structures in here). Guarding towers is even more necessary with the 30 second contested delay they added, and it’s awful for small groups trying to get into a say tower when there’s a zerg in full swing out front. Too often I find myself rolling my eyes and logging off.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I think a problem is: it gets boring quite fast to defend a tower when no one is attacking.

lol

Jong.5937:

But we do, I agree, need to ensure it does not distract defenders so they get hit by surprise while playing some mini-game!

Imagine this situation: You are inside the keep and train the npcs in shield-defense. Suddenly a loud horn is blown, a crier-npc on the walls calls: “enemy incoming” and all the NPCs start running to their post while the keeplord calls “on your positions” (on the wall, to the keeplord etc.). Events get paused and can be resumed after the attack.

I think this is pretty hard to miss

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

grrr…. stop turning pvp into more pve… Can’t think of anything worse.

If you haven’t noticed, WvW is not just PvP. Yes you fight enemy players, but it encompasses a lot more than just PvP thus the inclusion of events and NPC’s.

gennyt.3428:

Agreed. Fighting on the walls is already a kittened experience in WvWvW (seriously, they really should revamp defending structures in here). Guarding towers is even more necessary with the 30 second contested delay they added, and it’s awful for small groups trying to get into a say tower when there’s a zerg in full swing out front. Too often I find myself rolling my eyes and logging off.

Agreed. At least include alternate entrances to a tower so the zerg can’t just camp the entrance and pick off players one by one as they try to enter. It makes for fun and strategy.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Reasons to defend a tower

I think a problem is: it gets boring quite fast to defend a tower when no one is attacking. WXP for repairing is only a small step to reward you for staying. Some spontaneous ideas:

• if you take a tower a skill-challenge spawns in the tower. So there is an activity which keeps you there for a while. This is only a small addition and wouldn’t be enough, but a first step.
• when you take a tower follow up events spawn in very close proximity to that tower. examples:
• collect pieces of rubble (collect event) – reward: Karma, Gold, A random piece of loot + all walls auto-repair slowly.
• train the staff (similar to the southern Queensdale training heart-quests; you train NPCs inside the keep by using environmental weapons) – reward: Karma, Gold, a random piece of loot + stronger NPC-guards.

all in all there could be 10-15 different activities per keep – some of those unique to the specific keep where you are. This would keep a lot of people in the proximity of newly taken keeps and would make it easier to defend those from zergs.

No
And i always laugh at players that pretend to “defend” tower, they just stay there and wait till our or enemy zerg comes and leave to “defend” some other thing. Seriously leave the spot for someone who will do something useful.

Kimbald.2697:

The problem with most defensive WvW mechanics is that it’s always the same people doing them.

It’s easy running with the zerg for many kills and badges, and asking if anyone has eyes on this or that tower.
Just like it’s easy to expect OTHERS to build siege there, make sure supplies get through, or even upgrading it.
Latest boring addition to that list: expecting others to tick siege so they don’t despawn by the time you arrive with the zerg…

The same minority of players bother with the boring and costly stuff, while the same majority of players expect others to do it while they go for the fun fighting all over the map.

To me that is the main flaw of the system.
And the remedy indeed should be to give some fun and rewards to those doing the boring work.
What and how can be debated upon. But as it stands: the players running with the zerg all over, are still rewarded a lot more than the ones defending.
The zerg only comes defending when there is an actual fight to be had after all…

I played in T3 with a bit of T2, and I play in T8 now.
it was the same everywhere: day after day I saw the same people running supplies, scouting, defending, ticking siege… and I saw the same people running with the commanders from fight to fight never bothering with defense untill an enemy zerg arrived.

It’s normal you have a minority of defenders and a majority following the commanders. But that doesn’t mean it should always be the ‘others’ who are stuck with the boring stuff.

Better rewards, and more things happening on defensive tasks are indeed a good idea.

^Nailed it.

I do not always want to follow the zerg or the commander sometimes for personal and real life reasons and sometimes just for a break.

I see way too many of the same people doing those annoying jobs and many of the hardcore players take full advantage of it. It pains me to see those same players then complain that no one refreshed the siege or run off to the next rewarding objective while one or two people repair a gate for little more than a pat on the back.

Giving these people something else to do besides the dirty work should not be an issue.

I like the idea the op listed. Perhaps this will get noticed and start to flesh out the game a bit more for everyone and not just the hardcore pvp players.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

you could have a NPC-watchmen who cries: “enemy in sight!!”

Best idea ever.. :P Though it’ll need some more objectives to get this since it’ll help a zerg a lot (they don’t have to rely on a person who could accidentally just spill his coffee and not notice the zerg)
Maybe let a stealthing thief be able to take him out as a counter ability for the enemy zerg (or stealth-chaining mesmers).

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

grrr…. stop turning pvp into more pve

WvW was always meant to be a mix of pvp and pve. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

grrr…. stop turning pvp into more pve

WvW was always meant to be a mix of pvp and pve. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Sorry to burst your bubble but unless they stop it wvw will be only pve.

I really like this. Id like something to do whilst waiting for a potential enemy to turn up so I can comm to my allies. Right now all I can do is reset siege.

i like the ide about a watchman shouting enemy in sight in a keep/tower/camp tho not how many, and will then say the name of the place hes at(the guard), ofc it needs to have a range of some sort

How about a bejeweled addon use to love that on my WoW flight paths!

And really I think defending should be boring. That is sort of the point, waiting for the other side to quit watching and sneak in an attack before they wake up.

Although I do like the ideas of maybe another door. Even if some towers had an extra door upgrade?

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

1. train the staff (similar to the southern Queensdale training heart-quests; you train NPCs inside the keep by using environmental weapons) – reward: Karma, Gold, a random piece of loot + stronger NPC-guards.

I would like this if you could actually find loitering npc’s in the tower/keep an train them like that to upgrade the guards, as oppose to dropping a gold or two and having them magically appear 10 or so min later^^

Anyone whom complains about anything additional to WvW is either a dueler or someone who run’s in a server with the biggest Zerg. Because rolling over people and PvDoor is fun! WvW needs way more…

Zosk.5609:

What will it take for the ‘defenders’ to get it?

Nobody is asking you to sit in towers and keeps. It is not the intention that you’ll spend an hour just sitting there “refreshing the siege” and waiting.

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want. You can respond by entering and setting up a counter-siege, pushing out the “doors”, or just deal with it directly and hit them from behind, or you can take something else to make a trade if you think it’s best…. the thing is, nobody is asking you to do boring stuff (the devs or your fellow players) so why do you think we should make that boring stuff more interesting?

This has got to be the best post I have seen this month. The best part is I have learned something. Join a squad and zerg, since it is what the designers intended I do.

Forzani.2584:

Zosk.5609:

What will it take for the ‘defenders’ to get it?

Nobody is asking you to sit in towers and keeps. It is not the intention that you’ll spend an hour just sitting there “refreshing the siege” and waiting.

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want. You can respond by entering and setting up a counter-siege, pushing out the “doors”, or just deal with it directly and hit them from behind, or you can take something else to make a trade if you think it’s best…. the thing is, nobody is asking you to do boring stuff (the devs or your fellow players) so why do you think we should make that boring stuff more interesting?

This has got to be the best post I have seen this month. The best part is I have learned something. Join a squad and zerg, since it is what the designers intended I do.

Not sure if serious, both your post and the one quoted. Tier 1 servers are asking for players to do this and its needed.

^Exactly! Saying it isn’t needed is simply misdirection. In the reverse, I was just on BG BL earlier and they had 20+ guarding Lake versus 4 of us at spawn. This situation isn’t fun either. Just like trying to run into a tower or keep when an enemy zerg has it blocked.

OMG….. this WvW is like, SO… much fun!!! May I just keep running into that enemy zerg and get boiled down in 2.4 seconds?!?!?! Yeah I can, A-OK!

You have to have active defenders already IN the property to defend it.

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats…this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

You can’t be serious… I guess you haven’t experienced a decent defense yet.

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

Terrahero.9358:

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

If you have two squads working each side of the map with the support of 2-3 roaming groups, you are set for defense. An enemy zerg can’t just roam around invisible on the map and with a half-decent wvw community you will get good information reported from all over the map, making it easier to respond to a potential threat.

The OP is onto something and the truth is, there really is no point in defending your tower except for pride and being stubborn. What do you get from defending a tower? a dynamic quest for successfully defending w/ very petty rewards. What do you get for claiming a tower and giving buffs? Nothing. What do you get for holding that tower? Nothing. What do you get for upgrading the tower? Only to have it retaken the next day you wake up. So what do you gain from defending a tower in the end? Nothing.. The cycle just repeats itself. I used to be a naive and ignorant and laid “my life” for towers and such but then i realized lol it’s more beneficial for me if they take it so we can just retake it. The only exception is having the keep, because then it makes things easier to retake. Yeah Yeah i know, I should be ashamed of myself for this kind of thinking but it’s being real.

Terrahero.9358:

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

If they don’t want it they need to remove that 5 min debuff on capture.

Sovta.4719:

Terrahero.9358:

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

If they don’t want it they need to remove that 5 min debuff on capture.

This is to deal with exploiting more then anything. Imagine two zergs chain-capping a keep from eachother, just letting it happen. Two guild composed zergs for instance.

Powerleveling an alt would be rather easy if you pick up more then half a level every minute.
Or farming ludicrous amounts of karma + the coin you get for the cap. And karma can be turned into stuff aswell with Orian lockboxes, also worth money. Not to mention WXP farm.

The potential for exploits is to high if keeps, towers and camps could instantly be recapped.

Terrahero.9358:

Sovta.4719:

Terrahero.9358:

Zosk.5609:

Join a group, a squad, and/or a zerg and actively respond to threats… this is what the designers intend and the players really want.

Pardon me for saying, but what a load of crap.

Do you honestly think this is what the devs want? After they raised the Orange-sword warning from 5 to 25 and added a 30sec delay before a tower/keep/camp is shown as contested?

They want the exact opposite of what you are claiming, all these changes were made exclusively and specifically to get more ppl to babysit towers and keeps, because the warning of attack from the automated systems is heavily delayed. To the point that a keep or tower is all but lost by the time it actually pops up.

If they don’t want it they need to remove that 5 min debuff on capture.

This is to deal with exploiting more then anything. Imagine two zergs chain-capping a keep from eachother, just letting it happen. Two guild composed zergs for instance.

Powerleveling an alt would be rather easy if you pick up more then half a level every minute.
Or farming ludicrous amounts of karma + the coin you get for the cap. And karma can be turned into stuff aswell with Orian lockboxes, also worth money. Not to mention WXP farm.

The potential for exploits is to high if keeps, towers and camps could instantly be recapped.

Then they need to prevent exploits or player need to stop complaining about zerging and blobing cause it’s the way you WIN in wvw. (1 big zerg, 2 small groups 5-10(max) players to cap camps, put swords on towers away fromm zerg + some scouts is all you need)

made a thread about this topic on reddit, here the results + interesting viewpoints

http://redd.it/1f0zye

WvW is about massive zerg fights in an epic scale. Don’t make defending tower a job in a game. You play the game for fun. If defending tower is no fun but is an important thing to do, the dev has to rework it. I like the idea to have npc defenders to sound the alarm. :P

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Reasons to defend a tower

I think a problem is: it gets boring quite fast to defend a tower when no one is attacking. WXP for repairing is only a small step to reward you for staying. Some spontaneous ideas:

• if you take a tower a skill-challenge spawns in the tower. So there is an activity which keeps you there for a while. This is only a small addition and wouldn’t be enough, but a first step.
• when you take a tower follow up events spawn in very close proximity to that tower. examples:
• collect pieces of rubble (collect event) – reward: Karma, Gold, A random piece of loot + all walls auto-repair slowly.
• train the staff (similar to the southern Queensdale training heart-quests; you train NPCs inside the keep by using environmental weapons) – reward: Karma, Gold, a random piece of loot + stronger NPC-guards.

all in all there could be 10-15 different activities per keep – some of those unique to the specific keep where you are. This would keep a lot of people in the proximity of newly taken keeps and would make it easier to defend those from zergs.

I like this idea, specifically because each of the little skill challenges, which would likely having a spaced running rotation, actually help with defense a little. You’d still have mostly the same core group defending and watching for enemies, but now they get rewarded for it and the tower is slightly harder to take.

People that say “PVE in Wvw” blah blah blah: I highly doubt you were the ones defending in the first place. If PVE is too boring for you then defending definitely is. Seeing as this would have no relevance to you I can only believe you don’t want your karma train to stop.

Distract from watching? Perhaps. But if the activities not actively making you patrol were short then it wouldn’t be enough to matter. The fact that there are tangible benefits for the keep/tower for completing these tasks also mitigates that quite a bit. Heck one of the tasks could be to train a lookout who will then call out attacks when the keep becomes contested.

Don’t need more PVE garbage in wvw. This would only cause people to be out doing PVE crap rather than actually defending the tower.

timidobserver.7925:

Don’t need more PVE garbage in wvw. This would only cause people to be out doing PVE crap rather than actually defending the tower.

This is a cheap shot others have made and, IMO, a pretty meaningless one.

What counts as PvE?

Why would training the troops (whatever that might mean, we haven’t discussed it really) be PvE, but buying an upgrade from quartermaster for strengthened troops for cash is not?

What about collecting supplies? Escorting dolys? Siege? Repairing walls? Even walls themselves! Take all these things out and you just have 1vX PvP, which maybe what some want, but it is not WvW.

We can discuss the details We would need to be sure that we were not distracting people from the real game, allowing attacks to be mounted under cover of a mini-game. But just saying “no PvE in WvW”…..

I really like the core of the idea. However any of those events should not only reward players doing them, but also have a benefit for the server. This can come with multiple ways, like score points, supplies for the fortification that the event relates to to speed up its upgrading. However, none of these events should cause the fortification to become contested, this stuff should only be there to cheer up people doing the guard duty and reward them, because this is what we truely need, a system that rewards scouts/guards.

I agree the tasks should improve defence readiness. IMO they should replace current costs for and/or speed upgrades or provide new ones, like heightened npc “alertness”.

Main point of this thread is increasing reward for watchmans and i fully agree with it. This is VERY important, and very unrewarding and boring task. You always need at least 5 ppl in full captured, upgraded and sieged border, and more if you have enemies here. Those guys shall get better rewards.

1: just make guards 10x stronger, with a longer respawn time (hard to kill but long respawn).
2: if the tower/keep is claimed by a guild and a group of players kills a guard a message in guild chat will appear saying somthing like that “xx invaders are attacking your tower/keep”

no more need to sleep inside towers, stronger guards will prevent 1-2 ppl to take it, longer respawn time will grant enough time to use rams, guild groups can “call” other guild groups by attacking their tower, claim starts to gain meaning