Guild Wars 2

well guys lets start this discussion.

I’m no fan of Powerpoint at all..

PPT is irrelevant given the current scoring method and the fact that most maps are underpopulated most of the time. May the better Speed-PvDler accumulate more points.

GvG is irrelevant for everyone not directly involved.

WvW is irrelevant for farming anything (not even WEXP and BoH anymore).

If there is nothing relevant you can do in WvW, why do we go there?

Right, less and less people go there.

PPT vs GvG vs karma train. Karma train is clear winner because getting karma is good goal if you need karma.

PPT will be getting the love and people interested in gearing up and GvGing will be shafted for future expansions to come. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/GvG-community-ignored-again-why/first#post4780149.

I find PPT boring as dishwater even if they sensationally ‘shake it up’ with siege disabler and golem mastery (or with rumored HoT new scoring system), i have more fun watching paint dry. GvG is just more interesting because coordinated voice-communication is a must. It is unheard of having 50% of people not coordinate on voicecoms in a GvG. In a blob fighting for PPT however, it is a rare occasion to even have 10 people call their cooldowns, call being downed or even be present on voicecom. As for the battleground layout in general, it’s all been played out already, it’s not dynamic in any way, when i first heard about WvW i was fooled into thinking capturing objectives had a bigger impact than +X points per tick for the next few minutes. If you like being a hive-mind and ‘making a change’ be my guest, just don’t get in an argument with a guild shouting at them to move from spawn because spawn tower is being taken for the umpteenth time, they don’t care for your two extra chests at the end of the week.

Slyfer.6478:

PPT will be getting the love and people interested in gearing up and GvGing will be shafted for future expansions to come. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/GvG-community-ignored-again-why/first#post4780149.

I find PPT boring as dishwater even if they sensationally ‘shake it up’ with siege disabler and golem mastery (or with rumored HoT new scoring system), i have more fun watching paint dry. GvG is just more interesting because coordinated voice-communication is a must. It is unheard of having 50% of people not coordinate on voicecoms in a GvG. In a blob fighting for PPT however, it is a rare occasion to even have 10 people call their cooldowns, call being downed or even be present on voicecom. As for the battleground layout in general, it’s all been played out already, it’s not dynamic in any way, when i first heard about WvW i was fooled into thinking capturing objectives had a bigger impact than +X points per tick for the next few minutes. If you like being a hive-mind and ‘making a change’ be my guest, just don’t get in an argument with a guild shouting at them to move from spawn because spawn tower is being taken for the umpteenth time, they don’t care for your two extra chests at the end of the week.

They tried to make capturing objectives a bigger impact, it turned into a Karma Train in EotM because of it. They need to make Defensive stands and scouting more rewarding so people just don’t go and flip stuff back and forth all the time.

GvG means nothing, because there are no obvious advantages for guilds.
PPT means less than nothing, because… who cares? more coverage = more ppt

ergo: wvw is meaningless unless you are there for having a good time

Good fights > PvD.

Tribio.8531:

I’m no fan of Powerpoint at all..

While Powerpoint is a widely popular program, there is also Kingsoft Presentation Free 2013 that offers the same functionality as powerpoint, and it’s free.

@OP

I wouldn’t mind a discussion but please frame a topic with some actual points.

PPT vs GvG doesn’t give much to go on….

Ppt often turns into GvG but with less rules on numbers and use of environment such as wall and wvw weapons etc…

The vast majority of players have already spoken on this issue and the verdict is in – KARMA TRAIN FTW

Jski.6180:

Ppt often turns into GvG but with less rules on numbers and use of environment such as wall and wvw weapons etc…

this is really just defining the difference between an open field fight, and a GvG, not so much that PPT turns into GvG.

The main problem with PPT, is that your success and victory, comes more from coverage, where you have more players online at hours when other servers do not have players online. Offhours coverage is disproportionately important for success in PPT.

It’s great if you can queue two maps during primetime when the other servers can queue two maps as well. However, it’s even BETTER (from a PPT standpoint) if you can queue two maps while the enemy servers cant queue any at all.

GvG is about fighting better as a group, dancing with a melee train, and then using a well placed and timed well and immobilize bomb to make them drop. You’re pitted against other players who are trying almost everything they can to stop you, and you need to use misdirection and tactical opportunity to your advantage.

GvG is a place to practice your synergy between your players in an open environment against organized groups. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with who wins or who looses, but a place to practice your weaknesses and capitalize on your strengths in any way possible. There is no ceiling, you can ALWAYS improve.

That said, I’ve had fantastic and fun fights in structures. For me, it was never about holding a structure for the sake of the PPT, it was always because there were enemy players trying to be crafty and take my stuff, and instead they were going to give me bags. Kicking and screaming, but they will give me bags…..

Hamster.4861:

Jski.6180:

Ppt often turns into GvG but with less rules on numbers and use of environment such as wall and wvw weapons etc…

this is really just defining the difference between an open field fight, and a GvG, not so much that PPT turns into GvG.

The main problem with PPT, is that your success and victory, comes more from coverage, where you have more players online at hours when other servers do not have players online. Offhours coverage is disproportionately important for success in PPT.

It’s great if you can queue two maps during primetime when the other servers can queue two maps as well. However, it’s even BETTER (from a PPT standpoint) if you can queue two maps while the enemy servers cant queue any at all.

GvG is about fighting better as a group, dancing with a melee train, and then using a well placed and timed well and immobilize bomb to make them drop. You’re pitted against other players who are trying almost everything they can to stop you, and you need to use misdirection and tactical opportunity to your advantage.

GvG is a place to practice your synergy between your players in an open environment against organized groups. For me it has absolutely nothing to do with who wins or who looses, but a place to practice your weaknesses and capitalize on your strengths in any way possible. There is no ceiling, you can ALWAYS improve.

That said, I’ve had fantastic and fun fights in structures. For me, it was never about holding a structure for the sake of the PPT, it was always because there were enemy players trying to be crafty and take my stuff, and instead they were going to give me bags. Kicking and screaming, but they will give me bags…..

GvG is as simple as a guild vs a guild at any point in a game much like pvp is player vs player at any point in the game. What ppl have is an ideal of what gvg should be or what it was called in other games but these are just point of view and it dose very from person to person.

GvG is one thing and one thing only a Guild of mostly one group fighting another Guild of another group and that it. The amount of ppl what environment or even game type is not important as long as you have a group that see them self as a guild clan etc.. is fighting or playing vs another group with the same self ideal of group is GvG.

Do you call pve in the water pvew pve in the air pvea do you pick out every bit of info of that environment and call it player vs environment x? Getting hung up on the small detailed of what your doing vs what your calling something often leads to cheeping of the over all ideal of what is trying to be done. At the end of the day if you do this too much you will have such small def for names that the names start to have no meaning other then the ability to “split hair” and then its more of an English phraseology argument then an talk about what is realty going on.

So often ppt becomes GvG over time becuse you often have one group of ppl who are trying to take a keep or major objective taking both time and work vs a group whom is holding this objective who also puts time and work. Just simply flipping paper keeps vs some def is not ppt and often never becomes gvg.

My biggest fear is that skill groups won’t be relevant after the stability changes go through. I don’t know why people aren’t up in arms about this.

phantomlord.3417:

My biggest fear is that skill groups won’t be relevant after the stability changes go through. I don’t know why people aren’t up in arms about this.

Well think of it this way a “skill” in gw2 is timing if ppl simply spam there hard cc (most that are on a high cd) your not going to get any one if the group times there hard cc well and concentrates them then they should have some effect. At the same time a skill group will know when to repop stab as they lose stack allowing them to move more freely though hard cc then a unskilled group who simply just just pops it (under the old system just popping it would adding to its duration making it a mostly a stab and forget effect after the update you need ppl to hold off on using all there stab skills all at once.)

Competitively WvW hasn’t got much going for it really.
After 2 years PPT is still determined by Coverage, GvG has changed in some ways, but there isn’t any proper supported GvG mode right now.

At the end of the day for the sake of your Community it’s important to have a healthy balance between PPT and GvG guilds, or guilds that contribute to both.

Don’t expect Guilds to spend what time they have to play as a Guild group, trying to fight other Guild Groups, rather than defending or flipping things for the tick.

I think this discussion is as valid as a “Coverage Vs Numbers” discussion.

There are too many issues in WvW to consider just one or two things.

I think they missed the boat with gvg’s. so many gvg’ers left due to boredom, and arguably due to neglect (sometimes even flat out disrespect) from the company. it’s a shame really. this game mode came to be from players, like in a sandbox; and its metagame evolved organically. gvg’s were and are very fun to watch, and shoutcast. there is a ton of counterplay within the periphery and ganksquads. even frontline meta was spiced up with the addition of dps warrior (gs/hammer, gs/axe/shield, trolling with rifle/GS, or even hammer/s/wh). there are roles and so much to do. I loved the little things we could do with our equipment to maximize stats for various types of trains.

I dream of a day when there’s a global call broadcast in the BL’s or EB for two large teams to gather and engage in “team DM” or gvg over some sort of objective which gives gold/token rewards and a large amount of PPT to the winning side. these fights would occur maybe a few times a night, in addition to the arena we have now, which would have improved spectating function that would allow the shoutcaster to move around the arena freely, zoom in, zoom out on combat. BLU gave it a shot, he did great. Sacrx and other EU guys did some, it was glorious.

I really enjoyed gvg’ing and spectating in early 2014. the scene was at its peak in the summer/fall of 2013 when RG and a whole slew of other guilds were around, competing for kitten and bags. the meta kept changing in little ways…first we had hammer trains, then guard stacking which was countered by valk/zerker wellmancers and glassier eles, which then made it ESSENTIAL to run ganksquads. it was organic and some of the best time I had in the game!

right now, gvg’s and #gvgrevival2015 makes me so sad. so few playing, and most good players are simply gone. I did watch a recent Agg gvg and I have to say their train moves in a much more fluid manner, and not stupidly in long straight lines turning in slow 180’s and not focusing enemy’s backliners, like before. Oh, Agg. but what about the rest? is anyone coming back?

gvg’s generated way more interest, views on youtube/twitch and participants than conquest ever did or ever will! with SH, i hope for the best but i dwell on the missed opportunities. it’s really an interesting phenomenon how the pvp devs or maybe the company in general failed to pick up on this, failed to streamline it and market it for esports. this thing could have fed the gem store! in fact, most of the gems I bought were to look good in wvw, or to get more exotics to try different builds. no, it wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea. but imagine the freedom you have with 20v20 matchups to create interesting maps and objectives around this core experience.

no, gvg wasn’t zerging. I did not see it this way. only half to 2/3’s of each team would zerg each other, the frontline backbone. but even that required finesse like moving damage and sudden change in direction as demonstrated by some of the more skilled frontlines. everyone else was roaming, focusing, rezzing, cc’ing, healing, etc.

yes, gvg’ing required skill. the best gvg’ers were also amazing at conquest. and some of the best conquest players have done gvg’s, poorly perhaps but it improved their game in other areas (hi Apex; hi Zoose, I still remember your first staff ele vid).

no, gvg’ing did not interfere with PPT. before the free transfer garbage, most guilds took pride in their server and did nightly raids to wipe enemy blobs and earn a kittenton of ppt for their server. gvg and PPT went hand in hand. we just needed better integration of gvg into ppt, we needed new maps. we needed less siege, Devon. we needed less siege…

here’s to lost opportunities…
sheds single tear

There has been some great suggestions over the last two years.

My personal fav was that individual guilds would compete for objectives on the WvW map.

Claiming a tower/keep/etc would start earning your guild currency which you can spend on exclusive skins/gear/etc.

The Megaserver also lends itself extremely well to this as it could create new maps based on the size of the guilds trying to join a map at any one time.

Sadly none of these suggestions have been realised, and WvW is feeling more dead than ever.

Sube Dai.8496:

There has been some great suggestions over the last two years.

My personal fav was that individual guilds would compete for objectives on the WvW map.

Claiming a tower/keep/etc would start earning your guild currency which you can spend on exclusive skins/gear/etc.

The Megaserver also lends itself extremely well to this as it could create new maps based on the size of the guilds trying to join a map at any one time.

Sadly none of these suggestions have been realised, and WvW is feeling more dead than ever.

Surely that first suggestion would lead to pve guilds coming into wvw to claim a keep and then dissapear letting wvwers to defend the keep and essentially work for the pvers? That’d be a truly disturbing turn of events :/ Not to mention they probably wouldn’t even have the fort buffs on.

I just think that people that expect something from 15 vs 15 or 20 vs 20 GvG fest should play another game. So that there is more room for people that are actuall pretty loyal to the normal PPT game. Instead of queueueuing up on their borders and doing nothing.

snarfrificus.4230:

I just think that people that expect something from 15 vs 15 or 20 vs 20 GvG fest should play another game. So that there is more room for people that are actuall pretty loyal to the normal PPT game. Instead of queueueuing up on their borders and doing nothing.

Lol any old game can come up with a brain dead siege system, in fact many have. Not every game can come up with such a great combat system clearly, blobbing and pressing 1 all day on siege doesn’t exactly appreciate the game in all its glory does it?

snarfrificus.4230:

I just think that people that expect something from 15 vs 15 or 20 vs 20 GvG fest should play another game. So that there is more room for people that are actuall pretty loyal to the normal PPT game. Instead of queueueuing up on their borders and doing nothing.

Not sure if troll….=.=

someone once asked me, “ppt equals skill?”

pepper.6179:

someone once asked me, “ppt equals skill?”

The time where we believed that was a better time, wasn’t_it?

Zetsumei.4975:

Sube Dai.8496:

There has been some great suggestions over the last two years.

My personal fav was that individual guilds would compete for objectives on the WvW map.

Claiming a tower/keep/etc would start earning your guild currency which you can spend on exclusive skins/gear/etc.

The Megaserver also lends itself extremely well to this as it could create new maps based on the size of the guilds trying to join a map at any one time.

Sadly none of these suggestions have been realised, and WvW is feeling more dead than ever.

Surely that first suggestion would lead to pve guilds coming into wvw to claim a keep and then dissapear letting wvwers to defend the keep and essentially work for the pvers? That’d be a truly disturbing turn of events :/ Not to mention they probably wouldn’t even have the fort buffs on.

No, the guild would want to hold on to it so that they continue to earn the “currency”.

Sube Dai.8496:

Zetsumei.4975:

Sube Dai.8496:

There has been some great suggestions over the last two years.

My personal fav was that individual guilds would compete for objectives on the WvW map.

Claiming a tower/keep/etc would start earning your guild currency which you can spend on exclusive skins/gear/etc.

The Megaserver also lends itself extremely well to this as it could create new maps based on the size of the guilds trying to join a map at any one time.

Sadly none of these suggestions have been realised, and WvW is feeling more dead than ever.

Surely that first suggestion would lead to pve guilds coming into wvw to claim a keep and then dissapear letting wvwers to defend the keep and essentially work for the pvers? That’d be a truly disturbing turn of events :/ Not to mention they probably wouldn’t even have the fort buffs on.

No, the guild would want to hold on to it so that they continue to earn the “currency”.

What I’m saying is that wvwers today actively defend garrison like their life depends on it now for the sake of it. If a pve guild quickly came and claimed it n then went back to pve garrison would still be defended for them by other wvwers and they wouldn’t need to put in any work. On the flip side, seeing this behaviour could cause enough bitterness for people to never defend anything unless it was claimed by their guild thinking ‘why should I work for someone else’s guild?’.

ppt might be fun with the wvw revamp, who knows? they keep saying “more like an RTS”, so I imagine more emphasis on upgrades, building and resources. and holding onto that territory. for sure, theyre moving away from open field fighting and therefore further away from gvg.