Guild Wars 2

Quit whining like little 2 year olds. Some people can only play at night because of their jobs, is it fair to them to shut it down at night? Didn’t think so… Maybe they should whine like you to shut it down during the day…. Sheesh…. Hands tissue
I guess people will always find something to complain about.

Raze.5420:

- “Even a medium population server should be able to fill most battlegrounds.” – If this is the case (posted by one of the most vocal and frequent posters for the anti-nightcapping minority) then what is the problem. If even medium servers can fill the queues and negate the large population how can you argue that nightcapping is an issue? Credibility = 0.

Way to quote out of context. Why don’t you quote my entire post, not just the segment that suits your agenda.

But let me do that for you.

Also, it’s great how the queue system already limits the potential advantage high-population realms have over lower populated ones.

Even a medium population server should be able to fill most battlegrounds.

But somehow asking for a fix to a much “cheesier” imbalance is somehow too much?
Talk about double standards…

What I’m saying is that the impacts of a drastic population imbalance are somewhat mitigated by the queue system (because only a limited number of people can play at a time). High population realms still have a big advantage, but it’s mitigated.

All that we, the supporters of some kind of measure, (preferably a score system that scales with current player activity) want is something similar to mitigate the effects of “late night Players vs Door” on the overall score.

And just a note. If you look at the quality of posters pro and con a the issue you see a very clear image.

90% of comments defending night capping are simple one-liners that don’t contain a single argument and rarely go beyond “Don’t be so selfish”, “my night is not your night” and “why do you hate Australians”.

On the other hand at least 50%…probably more of the posts asking for some kind of mitigating mechanic are at least reasonably written statements containing at least a semblance of reasonable arguing.

Kazim.2043:

@Malarky

I agree on that. If a server is so well organized to bring full players at 7/24 they have the right to win.

What I don’t like is 30-40 players on night time can actually bring more points than 166 players on daytime. That demotivates 166 players on day time even they win or loose.

I agree with you, 100%. The perfect balance will let winning servers keep their advantage (that I think they deserve to have if they worked for it) while giving other servers the motivation to keep fighting…

I don’t think the underorganized or underpopulated (whatever it may be…because we don’t know the server population numbers we can’t say) should be HANDED an advantage, though….

For example….every WVW event that rewards points eventually ends with either
success or failure (if I recall correctly). With that in mind, points per-tick could be scaled depending on the cumulative number of combatants involved on both sides of the event. The tricky part though, is making sure that the objectives captures are still meaningful for the minority of players….because if the value of an objective is much lower in off-peak hours, people won’t have the motivation to even bother capturing it.

Anlyon.8375:

Why are people so freaking out about losing a day time dominance to a night crew?

Because we want to be able to say “We won and we won because we played great. It was us who created this victory”. That gives us the motivation to continue and try to better next time.

Currently it’s not possible on most matches. Whether we win or we loose it doesn’t matter.

Anlyon.8375:

How much fun do you really think the night crew had (PvE’ing keeps….woooo.)

I don’t think they are having much fun.

Anlyon.8375:

How much fun is it to FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL for them back?

Fun at first day perhaps the second. Not fun at following days when we start to wait for re-match whether we win or we loose.

Anlyon.8375:

If a whole map is one colour, i look at that and say, look at all the opportunities.

I know what you mean. If I was playing casually I’d say that too. However when I see a whole map in one color I say “Where is all the gold I spent yesterday to upgrades?”. Or if whole map is ours “What are we gonna do now?”. If a whole map is one color, there is something really wrong.

Anlyon.8375:

Getting Zerged on a map? consider going to a different map.

to get zerged there also? Or do you mean to go to a PvE map?

Fine.. I give. Then I have only one thing to ask of Anet, don’t divide the score keeping based on regions AT ALL, let the EU compete with NA. Why the split? it’s stupid given the position they have..

Fine.. I give. Then I have only one thing to ask of Anet, don’t divide the score keeping based on regions AT ALL, let the EU compete with NA. Why the split? it’s stupid given the position they have..

Yea. Let the NA servers play the EU servers….

kittening do it.

grifflyman.8102:

Yea. Let the NA servers play the EU servers….

kittening do it.

If it’s 7/24, it’s how it should be.

Anlyon.8375:

Why are people so freaking out about losing a day time dominance to a night crew?

How much fun do you really think the night crew had (PvE’ing keeps….woooo.)
vs
How much fun is it to FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL for them back?

If a whole map is one colour, i look at that and say, look at all the opportunities.

The ‘winning’ server doesnt actually matter. Everyone is winning (world bonus’).

Getting Zerged on a map? consider going to a different map.

I wish more people would understand this. With the World Bonus system and the way it works its not the night caps that just count its all the time, every few mins when it takes score. You can dominate during the day while the night cappers are sleeping.

I’m with ArenaNet here just lock this thread. Night capping is a valid stradegy get over it guys.

Dee Jay.2460:

90% of comments defending night capping are simple one-liners that don’t contain a single argument and rarely go beyond “Don’t be so selfish”, “my night is not your night” and “why do you hate Australians”.

Because this is what it hinges on when you devalue the efforts of players that are playing the hours that are in their primetime.

This game is global, and WvW is 24/7. Up to you to work out how to make your server deal with this (hint: organise and get some representation during this time, if your server keeps facing another server that has already done this).

Eventually it will balance out – there will be 24/7 servers who face each other all the time, and then a bunch of other servers who don’t bother organising themselves.

If the game is global then let us play the EU servers….

Why wouldn’t be fair to play EU? Cause they play in a different time zone?

No one is arguing against it’s 7/24. However we’re hoping that effort of each man on each time zone will have the same effect on overall score.

So if there are 166 players there should be more effect on the score compared to 30 players.

If you bring 166 players on early morning, then win the game. You deserve it.

lollie.5816:

Dee Jay.2460:

90% of comments defending night capping are simple one-liners that don’t contain a single argument and rarely go beyond “Don’t be so selfish”, “my night is not your night” and “why do you hate Australians”.

Because this is what it hinges on when you devalue the efforts of players that are playing the hours that are in their primetime.

This game is global, and WvW is 24/7. Up to you to work out how to make your server deal with this (hint: organise and get some representation during this time, if your server keeps facing another server that has already done this).

Eventually it will balance out – there will be 24/7 servers who face each other all the time, and then a bunch of other servers who don’t bother organising themselves.

But it’s not global, is it? They will never match the EU against NA servers..

Well, glad we finally have a statement on the topic. I hope you guys had the chance to play WvW in BWE… because it will never be that fun again. There will be 1 or 2 lucky match-ups every week that are close… all the others will be blow-outs. These are the options for WvW as of now:

If you want to enjoy WvW – don’t try to win. Try to take control of the map, but have fun trying. If you try to win you will hate WvW with a passion.

If you want to win and actually play WvW then join the top EU server. The added lag is only about 10-20ms.

Corew.8932:

But it’s not global, is it? They will never match the EU against NA servers..

Within latency limits, it’s global.

buki.3108:

If you want to enjoy WvW – don’t try to win. Try to take control of the map, but have fun trying. If you try to win you will hate WvW with a passion.

If you want to win and actually play WvW then join the top EU server. The added lag is only about 10-20ms.

I think these are the “last options”. There are plenty of good suggestions on forums to help ANet so that we can have “competition” and “fun” at the same ship.

lollie.5816:

Within latency limits, it’s global.

It’s not. HoD can never face VS on WvW.

“Night capping” would mean that the players capping doing this at night – I have no problem with it. But that is obviously not true when their timezone is up to 12 hours shifted from the servers local time. Thats not war thats unfair like your predator drones – after all it is a game nothing else, you make the rules and a game should make fun for everyone or people will lose interest sooner or later!

I’m a student so I can play at night from time to time, but I for myself already starting to notice that I lose my interest very fast. If that is not gone change and since you now said you wont do anything about it, it is pretty much clear for me that I won’t play any longer at night time under the week against such a server. My only hope is now that maybe if players start to boycott WvW the others will get bored to death – maybe in about a year… But well then I’m probably no student anymore…

Ps: Also I dont understand why you then seperate US and EU based servers. That somehow do not match..

Well with your attitudes then double teaming shouldnt be allowed either because that means the server getting double teamed has to fight 2x more people. So scratch double teaming to, I mean if you guys want to sit here and rant and rave about how good your server does at primetime, then do it solo no double teaming allowed cuz its unfair to the server getting double teamed. Just like its unfair if your server doesn’t have as many as the other on at night.

Enjoy pvp, stop being obsessed over a score.

lollie.5816:

Corew.8932:

But it’s not global, is it? They will never match the EU against NA servers..

Within latency limits, it’s global.

I’m not sure that’s an issue for most, I play both sides just fine..

EU would have big problems joining US servers.
Since all you US players who are willing to go to EU servers, that’s fine with me.
But for the Oceanic players, this is, GAME, BREAKING. So unless you all want to chuck on idk, $1 a month subscription fee so GW2 can get free Oceanic Latency Reducers for Australian customers, get, out.

Corew.8932:

lollie.5816:

Corew.8932:

But it’s not global, is it? They will never match the EU against NA servers..

Within latency limits, it’s global.

I’m not sure that’s an issue for most, I play both sides just fine..

Then NA people who want to play on Europe servers can I guess (and vice versa), if they want to make their 24/7 mega servers over there. As for me, I have to play on the closest to me (NA), and I still get a 200ms-300ms (not sure how much exactly) ping.

Namu.5712:

Well with your attitudes then double teaming shouldnt be allowed either because that means the server getting double teamed has to fight 2x more people. So scratch double teaming to, I mean if you guys want to sit here and rant and rave about how good your server does at primetime, then do it solo no double teaming allowed cuz its unfair to the server getting double teamed. Just like its unfair if your server doesn’t have as many as the other on at night.

Double teaming has no relation to the topic discussed here.

Kazim.2043:

above mars.4586:

Quality > quantity.

10 Stealth bombers or 50 Gunbuses?

So you mean people living on less populated time-zones have more quality compared to people living on more populated time-zones?

I’m not necessarily saying that those players that are active during the “night” are better than the other server; what I meant by quality is the strategy of attacking when the other server isn’t active.

Granted, it wasn’t really an intended strategy (at first) because it just happens from the differences of time zones, but now it is a strategy. Stay up until 3AM and rip the other server a new one.

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

Well with your attitudes then double teaming shouldnt be allowed either because that means the server getting double teamed has to fight 2x more people. So scratch double teaming to, I mean if you guys want to sit here and rant and rave about how good your server does at primetime, then do it solo no double teaming allowed cuz its unfair to the server getting double teamed. Just like its unfair if your server doesn’t have as many as the other on at night.

Double teaming has no relation to the topic discussed here.

AGAIN! Are you kittening kidding me!?

“Oh, ima just sit here and take everything at face value and act like I can’t comprehend reading between the lines.”

above mars.4586:

I’m not necessarily saying that those players that are active during the “night” are better than the other server; what I meant by quality is the strategy of attacking when the other server isn’t active.

Granted, it wasn’t really an intended strategy (at first) because it just happens from the differences of time zones, but now it is a strategy. Stay up until 3AM and rip the other server a new one.

I agree it’s a valid strategy. However it’s a too strong strategy right now. IMO it reduces the strategic variety game presents. It should be balanced to make this game more fun.

Kazim.2043:

It should be balanced to make this game more fun.

Balance would be fronting an opposing team during the same hours. In fact the smaller the team size overall, the harder it is to accomplish the same things in the same timespan.

The problem isn’t nightcapping, it’s the fact that people are so easily demoralized when they don’t have a territory on a map that they quit, as opposed to fighting back.

Back when we (SF) were fighting Aspenwood, this was a huge problem. I would join a borderlands that was entirely dominated by FA. I would then try to organize a group to start rallying back, but I’d only get 2 people to join the cause. That’s when I realized there were maybe 10 of us total on the map. So then I tried to go to other maps where our server was in a favorable position to get some others to come help. But when I queued up for one of those maps, I sat in that queue for half an hour before finally getting in. And then when I asked for help in the first borderlands, I got responses like “It’s a lost cause over there” or “There’s no point in that, we are doing great over here”.

The real problem is that most of you complaining just give up when put in a tight spot, but you’ll never get out of that spot unless you do something about it. Oceanics do rack up more points during their time because of population differences. But it’s not because other timezones CAN’T play; it’s because they WON’T play. Not until primetime are enough people willing to even try to change the tide of battle. By then, it’s already too late.

Maybe give a personnel upgrade in towers/keeps for Siege Operators :P

Devinchi.2756:

The real problem is that most of you complaining just give up when put in a tight spot, but you’ll never get out of that spot unless you do something about it. Oceanics do rack up more points during their time because of population differences. But it’s not because other timezones CAN’T play; it’s because they WON’T play. Not until primetime are enough people willing to even try to change the tide of battle. By then, it’s already too late.

Unfortunately we have lives just as Oceanics have. You’re asking something that most of us can not do every day

Wait, people are complaining about other servers capping points while their server is asleep? Pathetic, this is war bro.

I assume Arenanet are collecting data over time and when they see that points aren’t racked up by doing PvP maybe they’ll come up with something ;p

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

Well with your attitudes then double teaming shouldnt be allowed either because that means the server getting double teamed has to fight 2x more people. So scratch double teaming to, I mean if you guys want to sit here and rant and rave about how good your server does at primetime, then do it solo no double teaming allowed cuz its unfair to the server getting double teamed. Just like its unfair if your server doesn’t have as many as the other on at night.

Double teaming has no relation to the topic discussed here.

Of course it does, you are complaining your outnumbered at night, well the same could be said when a server gets DT’d at primetime. Take them both out. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Or does it only matter when its not in your favor?

People these days…. actually just NA players really everyone else in the world isn’t as stuck up, stubborn and selfish.

Double teaming is basically why we have three factions.. to even things out, it’s rarely happening but still

Namu.5712:

Of course it does, you complaining your outnumbered at night, well the same could be said when a server gets DT’d at primetime. Take them both out. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Or does it only matter when its your favor?

People these days…. actually just NA players really everyone else in the world isn’t as stuck up and stubborn.

I’m not complaining about getting outnumbered. I’m complaining 10 men can gain more points than 166 men pretty easily. And this de-motivates that 166 men and might cause they leave the competition. That might cause a heavy impact on WvW populations.

Corew.8932:

Double teaming is basically why we have three factions.. to even things out, it’s rarely happening but still

And its also why the fight is 24/7.

Imagine if wvw was only at certain times the server gained up on has no chance at winning if all server posses the same skill level/players.

Suck it up.

Really? 5 pages of complains. You demand to forbid people play WvW when they like and how they like because you are asleep/work/doing something else? Really??

If I was moderator on this forums I would have deleted every post and topic about this stupid request.

Please explain to me what is night capping and I will prove to you that it is day capping for some part of the world.

I am so retired of whines from self entitled kittens (typed kittens manual please replace with whaterver you like). If you don`t like stop doing it. It is simple

Cal.1985:

Really? 5 pages of complains. You demand to forbid people play WvW when they like and how they like because you are asleep/work/doing something else? Really??

None of the posts suggested forbid people play WvW when they like.

Kazim.2043:

Cal.1985:

Really? 5 pages of complains. You demand to forbid people play WvW when they like and how they like because you are asleep/work/doing something else? Really??

None of the posts suggested forbid people play WvW when they like.

Not directly – but they suggest to have lower points gain and other things like that? So why on earth you feel that for the period from 0 to10 GMT and the period from 10 to 18 GMT people should earn different points???? (hours are completly random and irrelivent)

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

Of course it does, you complaining your outnumbered at night, well the same could be said when a server gets DT’d at primetime. Take them both out. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Or does it only matter when its your favor?

People these days…. actually just NA players really everyone else in the world isn’t as stuck up and stubborn.

I’m not complaining about getting outnumbered. I’m complaining 10 men can gain more points than 166 men pretty easily. And this de-motivates that 166 men and might cause they leave the competition. That might cause a heavy impact on WvW populations.

How do you suggest balance then? Because if you take away a way for a server to make up points for a server thats getting teamed up on, what chance will they have at winning? Because two equally good servers can lock a server thats just as good down and force a loss. Thats considered strategy however giving them a chance to fight back is considered unfair?
How on earth does that even make sense in your head.

Namu.5712:

And its also why the fight is 24/7.

Imagine if wvw was only at certain times the server gained up on has no chance at winning if all server posses the same skill level/players.

Suck it up.

There are no posts suggesting making WvW for only certain times. We want to have a score system that takes amount of participants into account.

I kind of feel sorry for Kazim on page 5 he’s trying to talk a lot of sense and people are just reading 2 lines and commenting back with what is basically a load of rubbish.

The problem is not capping at night the problem is the scoring system and how it is easier to focus on point scoring during lower population hours of play and how these points scored make any contribution during prime time hours worthless. So currently 150 people playing against 10 and 10 score such a massive ammount of points that when the same server plays equal numbers those points (scored during max population time) are completely negated

Points should be earned by PvP but thats not what is happening, perhaps points shouldn’t be given for holding territory, only for kills and caps..

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

And its also why the fight is 24/7.

Imagine if wvw was only at certain times the server gained up on has no chance at winning if all server posses the same skill level/players.

Suck it up.

There are no posts suggesting making WvW for only certain times. We want to have a score system that takes amount of participants into account.

Still doesn’t account for a double team scenario during primetime hours which can severely cripple a server during prime point gain doesn’ kitten /p>

You cant just change soemthing with out taking everything else into consideration.

meloncash.6798:

Wait, people are complaining about other servers capping points while their server is asleep? Pathetic, this is war bro.

This isn’t war, it is a game. Games are meant to be fun last time I checked.

If the stance they are going for is that this is war then I expect the following:

1. PermaDeath- once you die you’re done with WvW FOREVER, no resets next week. In real war you only die once so I expect the same.

2. Instantkills- Catapults, ballista, trebuchets, etc. In a real war people can’t take dozens of hits, go down, then rally. No, they die.

3. Supply goes down for almost every action. Players need to eat/drink, siege engines need ammo, workers need fed, etc.

4. REAL time cycles. When it’s 3 AM on a NA server it needs to be pitch black and players need to use torches to see anything. In a real war darkness is a major problem, mastering the darkness can give you a major advantage, but it can also be a huge disadvantage.

Are you starting to see the idiocy in saying this is war? Implement the above and see how quickittenhe night cappers are complaining on the forums because 2-3 people with siege engines killed them.

This is a game above everything else and it should be fun for everyone. If ArenaNet’s stance is truly that night capping is fine then they’ve made their biggest mistake, one that will eventually cost them a lot of WvW players. How ArenaNet came up with so many good changes to the MMO themepark and then failed at this issue is a mystery.

Namu.5712:

How do you suggest balance then? Because if you take away a way for a server to make up points for a server thats getting teamed up on, what chance will they have at winning? Because two equally good servers can lock a server thats just as good down and force a loss. Thats considered strategy however giving them a chance to fight back is considered unfair?
How on earth does that even make sense in your head.

Alarm Clocking or using different Time-zones is the most strong tactic to win WvW right now. What we’re hoping, those to get some balance, which will leave room for other organization/strategies

Night capping is lame, and it should not reward the same amount of points.
People that say other wise, are the people that have to resort to these “lame” messure’s to win or get any points at all.

Yes WvW is and should be 24/7 but the amount of points should not be the same.

Namu.5712:

Still doesn’t account for a double team scenario during primetime hours which can severely cripple a server during prime point gain doesn kitten

You cant just change soemthing with out taking everything else into consideration.

Double teaming is not the subject of this topic.

If you’re unhappy of double-teaming start a new thread.
If you’re trying to disrupt the discussion here please don’t do that as it’s not helping at all.

It seems you see a strong correlation between double-teaming and subject of this topic. However I don’t share your opinion on that.

To ArenaNET’s RamonDomke: thank you but really people just love to cry. There is NOTHING WRONG with night capping. People just need to DEAL WITH IT.

I come from Isle of Janthir. Do you realize (besides Sea of Sorrows) that we are in the opposite situation? do people realize that we have an 11 hour dead zone (noon to 11pm EST, right in the middle of NA primetime) that we are absolutely weakest at?!

how do you propose we fix this?! do you see us crying for all you evil NA players which we simply cannot fight?!

and I’m NA myself! imagine how hard it is for me to play during primetime severely outmanned

look, i’m giving you all a difference in perspective

you cry about night capping

but you never imagine what it’s like for us servers whose weakest link are NA primetime hours

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

How do you suggest balance then? Because if you take away a way for a server to make up points for a server thats getting teamed up on, what chance will they have at winning? Because two equally good servers can lock a server thats just as good down and force a loss. Thats considered strategy however giving them a chance to fight back is considered unfair?
How on earth does that even make sense in your head.

Alarm Clocking or using different Time-zones is the most strong tactic to win WvW right now. What we’re hoping, those to get some balance, which will leave room for other organization/strategies

Right which is perfectly fine.

But take HoD’s most recent match up. Heavily getting focused by both servers, and unable to make any real attack at gaining points above the other two during prime time, because if they dont defend they lose more ground.

Taking away one tactic requires overhaul of others to keep things “fair”. Because then instead of night capping you will have complaints about server alliances beating on other servers for easy wins. Just like people are complaining about night capping.

Personnally I dont care about double teaming or night capping both are valid in my opinion. But dont forget you cant start taking away ways for a losing server to come back while leaving servers double teaming a way to dominate a server.

It sounds like they just don’t know how to fix the problem or don’t have the coding mechanics to fix it, so are just saying ‘working as intended’, even though it means leaving extreme imbalance and unfairness in the game.

Even though the obvious solution is to scale points down when the opponent is severely undermanned. Which does not bias against anyone, but only makes the integrity and fairness of WvW much higher.

Right now if you are a night time player, in most matchups you are getting a free gravy train of experience, karma, and gold, while impacting the scoreboard many times more than the majority, who has to play in NA primetime, and fight tooth and nail for every small gain. Only to see it often erased totally by nighttime zergs running largely unopposed or in such lopsided battles, that there is no hope of the other side being much more than speedbump.

Saying all is fair in war is just a trite and unacceptable copout.