Guild Wars 2

so doing a bit of roaming this morining, the usal stuff…hunting people for fights flipping camp’s sentrys.

i came to this camp on green borderland and only had 2 kill 2 guards and the lord and the rest of the npc’s were out of the circle for easy cap

is this normal or just bad spawn of mobs ?

That’s normal. For some reason the DBL camp guards are really bad at their jobs. At the SE camp you cap it with only killing the Lord while the rest of the guards sit and watch.

Yeah, it is normal and one of the reasons I’m annoyed by the DBLs – also that they’re 4 guards of the same kind and I have perma weakness which I can’t get rid of (thanks June Patch!) – if any camp can kill me it’s a DBL camp in which I pulled all npcs.

ETA: And because they’re so far apart they have the habit to reset which is really nice!

If it’s unintentional clearly ANet missed it and didn’t do much playtesting. You can actually skip all of the guards with a stealth set like D/P and just kill the lord.

Well, that NEVER happened in good old Alpine BL maps. They can not be restored fast enough before all the camp guards leave their posts.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Well then, if your take is to ‘give us less PvE’, why not remove guards altogether? :p

Just joking, at least players have something to do when there’s nobody around to fight.

I know, I know, ideally we would have people to fight against anywhere anytime, but so long as we don’t see your population solution (looking forward to it!) that’s not the case.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

In terms of pve events, dinosaurs, and wildlife crap yes that stuff needs to go. But there of course needs to be some token resistance at an objective since there cannot always be enemy players defending everything. Having guards to fight can at least buy a little time for enemies to respond.

In this case, most of the time you fight those guards anyways so its not like it would be removing pve altogether, its simply not letting people easily flip a camp with no resistance.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Good point, please remove the guards and just increase the time it takes to cap in place of killing them

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Wow. This makes it pretty clear how good the WvW revamp is going to be.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Exactly. Most forum threads, as well as comments in my WvW-only guild, are about how there is too much PvE. That is especially true in the new BL map.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

If PvE then let’s do the whole hog (had to look that up).
“You guys want less PvE” is a lame excuse for sloppy camp design

But here’s an idea – give me some npcs who don’t constantly blind or apply weakness and give them tiaras – that would make me love PvE in WvW.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Tyler, I can appreciate the fact that you are trying to bring some levity, but having functional guards on the camps is not what I would call PvE. These NPCs are a necessary function of the map design.

It is a little silly that I can bait the lord out, kill it and perhaps one guard and then walk into the middle of the circle while the rest stand around doing nothing.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I don’t know that it’s so much about more PvE than it is about consistency. The guards are more spread out and further from the cap area at Well than they are at Farm, but I can pull the Farm Supervisor solo through the barn (even fully upgraded I only get one add) and cap without pulling any more aggro. At Well as soon as the Lord is aggroed every guard in the camp comes to help him.

All in all it is a minor issue though.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

The alternative to “PvE” should be “PvP” not “PvNothing”.

Players won’t stick around to defend better a camp if there’s nothing else to do. They’ll get eventually bored. They won’t sit there waiting for enemy players. They want loots and stuffs.

Most objectives don’t get constantly attacked. So players rarely have reasons to stick around.

Add some more ‘PvE’ in the form of periodical waves of attackers from a fourth gray-colored ‘NPC faction’ (e.g.: Aetherblades), that can take the objectives from players, but that will teleport away instantly, siege and all, as soon as players from any of the other worlds intervene, leave the location entirely for a fight between worlds, and you have more reasons to keep players around, and other players coming along are more likely to find players there. And so, unless anyone can think of anything better, the only actual way to have ‘more PvP’ is actually ‘more PvE’. Ah, the irony.

Such a feature could be adjusted as a way to balance matches and spread players more, by making the gray faction more likely to attack the worlds with more population.

dubstax.9102:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I seriously laughed out loud at this reply. It was a fantastic post that was both comical while at the same time displayed a tiny glimpse into the frustrated developer’s eyes of “d****d if we do and d****d if we don’t.”

Heh same, I thought it was pretty funny. Lighten up folks, devs gotta be able to crack jokes to.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Great response!

+1 to TB!

Sorry, Tyler. You just can’t win one with this crowd.

Ok, I like this Tyler guy, lol~

I distinctly remember being accused of advocating for more PvE when I said that guards should all aggro and that, maybe, there should be ranged guards in higher tiers.

It amuses me, also, that people complain about more PvE without articulating what it means. The Oasis was by far the strongest argument, but the PvE there came with huge PvP potential (though it didn’t work out for other reasons). There are fewer aggro mobs on DBL than Alpine, too, and the veterans are even more out of the way. Doesn’t anyone recall the wolves around Garri? The raptors around SWT? The coyotes around SET? The ice wurms near NET? The eagles near Bay? The bears/raptors/eagles/wolves near Hills?

The only time I get tagged by an aggro mob on DBL is a single Winged Jackal thing on the way from Rampart to Airkeep. There’s some rock dogs near SW spawn but they don’t aggro yaks and I’ve never fought them. I think there are plated behemoths near SE spawn but they aren’t on the road or in any area I ever need to go. I suppose the Oasis has aggro stuff but, as much as I run through it, I never have to even go out of my way to avoid things.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Fair Enough, yet at the same time it is a mistake. Rather than argue with your population, fix it. Also no, “less pve” in general on these forums relates to Dredge/Hylek/Ogres, random NPC mobs, and especially the events in the Desert BL. Lets remember that meta-event ya’ll disabled recently.

There is PvE that hinders the game-type, and there is PvE that can also add some life to it. In this case a camp needs to be defended, by something, so the average roamer can’t flip a camp solo. 3-5 People may be a decent goal; however misplaced and inactive NPC defenders might as well not exist and the player’s post was not talking referring to the general PvE issues in WvW; simply the placement of these NPCs that yes, you did overlook and no it wasn’t a big deal overall.

If you could kill the Lords in Legacy of the Foefire without aggro-ing the other 4 defending NPC’s you would quickly resolve that issue. (PvE)
And that would have nothing to do with “Hey should we have PPT in PvP?” (Do we need more PvE because we had to fix something? No)

Are these people asking for more PvE events/map effects/bonuses as you note (Yes this is the general issue at hand not NPCs at camps)? No; this is a single engagement, and moving the NPC’s or extending aggro-range still makes, a single engagement it’s just slightly more difficult.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

OWNED

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Real Life Hero.

man. poor guy can’t even crack a joke and people jump down his throat. it’s rough being a dev... in any game... i’ve seen the same behavior aimed at other game devs too. it’s no wonder they get so where they don’t want to ever talk to us

katz.8376:

man. poor guy can’t even crack a joke and people jump down his throat. it’s rough being a dev… in any game… i’ve seen the same behavior aimed at other game devs too. it’s no wonder they get so where they don’t want to ever talk to us

A winking smiley is all it would have taken to indicate he was kidding.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

While that is funny, the guards do provide a basic defense that puts constraints on how fast a player can flip it based on basics like player skill and build.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I think what the original post is addressing isn’t more or less PvE on the maps; but, rather, AI that works for the PvE that already exists. Surely you understood that.

As a necro who solos camps in WvW quite regularly, I don’t pay much attention to which NPCs are in the ring because I’m gonna kill them all anyway for the potential loot. What would be fun and interesting is if the NPC AI allowed them to be more proactive and reactive in their duties. Guards that actually guarded their posts would be a nice start for that; but, I’m guessing those centaurs will keep standing in their fields for at least 3 more years. :P

This shouldn’t be confused with wanting more of anything in particular. I just want what exists to work in a fun and challenging way. I’m sure other WvW players can agree with that, whether they like PvE or not.

Personally, I’d prefer the “aggro rings” around the NPC be widened, with the addition of a patrol path set rather than simply repositioning them. Pathing would add some nice variety to approaches.

Brown Fang Thump.9482:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I think what the original post is addressing isn’t more or less PvE on the maps; but, rather, AI that works for the PvE that already exists. Surely you understood that.

As a necro who solos camps in WvW quite regularly, I don’t pay much attention to which NPCs are in the ring because I’m gonna kill them all anyway for the potential loot. What would be fun and interesting is if the NPC AI allowed them to be more proactive and reactive in their duties. Guards that actually guarded their posts would be a nice start for that; but, I’m guessing those centaurs will keep standing in their fields for at least 3 more years.

This shouldn’t be confused with wanting more of anything in particular. I just want what exists to work in a fun and challenging way. I’m sure other WvW players can agree with that, whether they like PvE or not.

A necro can just stumble into a T3 camp and AoE everything to death. Try an other class, although most are faceroll nowadays, and see if you still don’t find the npcs challenging. And actually a T3 camp has got patrolling guards.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

With all due respect, your response shows how disconnected the developers are with design needs of the game.

The following is based on my perspective and my perspective only

If you haven’t noticed, the cries of having less PVE came about when HoT and the desert borderlands were released. Prior to this, there were NO complaints that veteran guards in WvW objectives were a major problem that needs addressed.

The complaints stem from the artificial bloat created from HoT’s new content-

• the Oasis event
• Gimmick shrines and environmental effects
• Various scribe impact on WvW
• Complex map structures and verticallity
• Miscellaneous things like mass invisibility in WvW (Seriously, who thought this was a good idea? It’s as if ArenaNet perceived that everyone wants to bring back culling)

In the end, while it’s true that there needs to be less PvE, it doesn’t mean that guards at a camp should remain buggy and not defend the objective under attack.

To reiterate:

• YES, less PVE is needed- but it’s not what you think
• Guards at camps/towers/keeps should defend their objective when under attack and not just stand there staring at the air like a bunch of idiots. They need to SCRAMBLE and DEFEND.
• WvW does not need the mindless complexity to artificially make combat interesting. (Talking about airship attacks, shrines, wvw banners, and all other NEW stuff introduced in HoT). Combat is interesting in it’s own way. Please consider the asuran mantra- “Embrace simplicity”.
• Think of reasons why simple map designs are so popular in competitive games like league of legends (summoner’s rift), halo (blood gulch / coagulation), and super smash brothers (final destination). Maps don’t need all these “gimmicks” to artificially make combat “interesting”. Desert borderlands is unsuccessful for the same reason skyhammer is unsuccessful- it’s too complicated when really, all you needed was a simple hilly area to duke it out.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Tactivators-alphine-BL-Yes-or-No/6079378

And here in this thread, you have 3 pages full of users groaning at your decision to have tactivators in the alpine borderlands, yet you persist that they stay.

Come on guys, Tyler made a joke.

Jana.6831:

Come on guys, Tyler made a joke.

With all due respect, they’ve been “joking” for 3 years.

He still has a point though. When people talk about disliking pve in WvW, it often is really vague, so it’s nice people are differentiating between vital game mechanics and what is basically noise. For example, everything in the middle, oasis event or not, does absolutely nothing to add to anything.

When obstacles and NPCs present you a bigger threat than other actual players, I think that’s a problem, because then it really is dependent on your ability to fight AI. Not very interesting. On the other hand stuff like guards and walls set a minimum threshold to be able to capture something. NPCs are just speedbumps and it’s the players that need to be able to stop attackers. When you have keep lords that can stall people for a ridiculous amount of time, then it just feels like the place defends itself and you might as well just go somewhere else.

As for the camps, themselves, meh, whatever. I don’t really think it matters. Dumb AI is dumb AI. Camps are never going to be threats to any group greater than a solo player and nor should they, considering people regularly solo/duo towers and keeps already.

TheBravery.9615:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

With all due respect, your response shows how disconnected the developers are with design needs of the game.

The following is based on my perspective and my perspective only

If you haven’t noticed, the cries of having less PVE came about when HoT and the desert borderlands were released. Prior to this, there were NO complaints that veteran guards in WvW objectives were a major problem that needs addressed.

The complaints stem from the artificial bloat created from HoT’s new content-

• the Oasis event
• Gimmick shrines and environmental effects
• Various scribe impact on WvW
• Complex map structures and verticallity
• Miscellaneous things like mass invisibility in WvW (Seriously, who thought this was a good idea? It’s as if ArenaNet perceived that everyone wants to bring back culling)

In the end, while it’s true that there needs to be less PvE, it doesn’t mean that guards at a camp should remain buggy and not defend the objective under attack.

To reiterate:

• YES, less PVE is needed- but it’s not what you think
• Guards at camps/towers/keeps should defend their objective when under attack and not just stand there staring at the air like a bunch of idiots. They need to SCRAMBLE and DEFEND.
• WvW does not need the mindless complexity to artificially make combat interesting. (Talking about airship attacks, shrines, wvw banners, and all other NEW stuff introduced in HoT). Combat is interesting in it’s own way. Please consider the asuran mantra- “Embrace simplicity”.
• Think of reasons why simple map designs are so popular in competitive games like league of legends (summoner’s rift), halo (blood gulch / coagulation), and super smash brothers (final destination). Maps don’t need all these “gimmicks” to artificially make combat “interesting”. Desert borderlands is unsuccessful for the same reason skyhammer is unsuccessful- it’s too complicated when really, all you needed was a simple hilly area to duke it out.

+1
Well said.

@Tyler: The best part of this problem is you absolutely do not have to fix it. Just bring back the alpine bl with the old guards and the problem will be solved.

Zietlogik.6208:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Complaints about pve are rarely about NPC guards, especially since the desert BL launch. NPCs are clearly necessary, all players would agree with that. I just hope Tyler realises that.

I believe it was a tongue in cheek response and I laughed.

I also hope it meant someone from Anet had read the thread and is aware of the issue with the guards now.

If I had believed it was not a joke response, my response to it would have been deleted by now anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Zietlogik.6208:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Complaints about pve are rarely about NPC guards, especially since the desert BL launch. NPCs are clearly necessary, all players would agree with that. I just hope Tyler realises that.

This isn’t what he said though, he just said " PvE before the introduction of DBL" and also made a rather rude recall to the one Anet Dev who interupted a GvG about gamemode violation, they just seem salty, and they are spewing out nonsense to boot. The PvE comment still stands, noone would complain about guards, but PvE in general is overly high, and always has been.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Less PvE for sure but I feel like NPCs are fine when it comes to keeps, SMC, camps, towers, and sentries. I do think that they need to have a bit better pathing though or maybe move some of the veteran archers around. I feel like siege should be attacked by guards that roam around structures to give them a bit more use. The problem is that people would just build siege even further out of those rings but it would however stop some of the secret spots like the one at the Lich tower in the Desert BL.

elkirin.8534:

If I had believed it was not a joke response, my response to it would have been deleted by now anyway.

Right? This thread is about half the size it was earlier.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

laughs

Was so tempted to report this post for “trolling the community, in style!” just for the heck of it

“Mommy, can we keep this one? It is funny!”

Tyler Bearce.3427:

In all seriousness though, thanks for bringing this up. I’d been meaning to fix this for a while, but it fell off my radar in light of higher priority issues.

Good news: This is now fixed.
Bad news?: This is fixed in the build where we disable Desert BL and bring back Alpine BL

• DBL Camps: Reduced the number of base guards from 4 to 3.
• DBL Camps: Base guards are now a combination of both Scout and Guard NPCs.
• DBL Camps: Guards have been moved inside the capture circle.

YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ALPLINE BLS ARE BACKKKKK I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Tyler Bearce.3427:

In all seriousness though, thanks for bringing this up. I’d been meaning to fix this for a while, but it fell off my radar in light of higher priority issues.

Good news: This is now fixed.
Bad news?: This is fixed in the build where we disable Desert BL and bring back Alpine BL

• DBL Camps: Reduced the number of base guards from 4 to 3.
• DBL Camps: Base guards are now a combination of both Scout and Guard NPCs.
• DBL Camps: Guards have been moved inside the capture circle.

Thanks for the update Tyler. This is’nt a giant issue, so it wont be a problem waiting.
Any eta on alpine bl coming back?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

In all seriousness though, thanks for bringing this up. I’d been meaning to fix this for a while, but it fell off my radar in light of higher priority issues.

Good news: This is now fixed.
Bad news?: This is fixed in the build where we disable Desert BL and bring back Alpine BL

• DBL Camps: Reduced the number of base guards from 4 to 3.
• DBL Camps: Base guards are now a combination of both Scout and Guard NPCs.
• DBL Camps: Guards have been moved inside the capture circle.

All I’m seeing here is good news for the most part. Though still, tactivators. :s

Thanks for your involvement, on this, though. While I understand the “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” mentality or general potential frustration, it’s honestly great to have that exposed to people posting. Exposing logically the difficulty of development intents or contradictory requests gives people some insight on why things are as they are and in the end gets people to back off from criticism.

Throwing humor in the mix is also great so long as (as demonstrated) the issues do get recognized as they are.

Zietlogik.6208:

morrolan.9608:

Zietlogik.6208:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Complaints about pve are rarely about NPC guards, especially since the desert BL launch. NPCs are clearly necessary, all players would agree with that. I just hope Tyler realises that.

This isn’t what he said though, he just said " PvE before the introduction of DBL" and also made a rather rude recall to the one Anet Dev who interupted a GvG about gamemode violation, they just seem salty, and they are spewing out nonsense to boot. The PvE comment still stands, noone would complain about guards, but PvE in general is overly high, and always has been.

Be offended by my call out all you want, but suggesting that the few complaints about rallying off npcs on the ABLs was anyway near the outcry over all the extra mobs on DBL is the actual nonsense.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Zietlogik.6208:

morrolan.9608:

Zietlogik.6208:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Complaints about pve are rarely about NPC guards, especially since the desert BL launch. NPCs are clearly necessary, all players would agree with that. I just hope Tyler realises that.

This isn’t what he said though, he just said " PvE before the introduction of DBL" and also made a rather rude recall to the one Anet Dev who interupted a GvG about gamemode violation, they just seem salty, and they are spewing out nonsense to boot. The PvE comment still stands, noone would complain about guards, but PvE in general is overly high, and always has been.

Be offended by my call out all you want, but suggesting that the few complaints about rallying off npcs on the ABLs was anyway near the outcry over all the extra mobs on DBL is the actual nonsense.

It wasn’t just about rallying which thankfully they fixed, it was wildlife interfering with fights, putting you in combat etc. And irrelevant events and creatures that had nothing to do with wvw, skritt, centaurs, kraits, quaggans, mosquito event in EB lol

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Zietlogik.6208:

morrolan.9608:

Zietlogik.6208:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

I’m sorry, are we violating your gamemode?

I don’t recall people ever complaining about too much PvE before the introduction of DBL. It obviously refers to the high density of unnecessary mobs and obstacles in DBL.

That makes you suggestion disingenuous at best.

Never heard of people complaining about too much PvE before DBL? Where have you been? It’s been a complaint since a week after launch. When peopole started random creatures to rally/use movement skills/stealth/etc. when in fights. And who didn’t love being randomly put into combat speed in open field when hitting one by accident.

Complaints about pve are rarely about NPC guards, especially since the desert BL launch. NPCs are clearly necessary, all players would agree with that. I just hope Tyler realises that.

This isn’t what he said though, he just said " PvE before the introduction of DBL" and also made a rather rude recall to the one Anet Dev who interupted a GvG about gamemode violation, they just seem salty, and they are spewing out nonsense to boot. The PvE comment still stands, noone would complain about guards, but PvE in general is overly high, and always has been.

Be offended by my call out all you want, but suggesting that the few complaints about rallying off npcs on the ABLs was anyway near the outcry over all the extra mobs on DBL is the actual nonsense.

I was not being offended by your “call out”, I was correcting you, there is a difference, that obviously went over your head. That tends to happen when people lazily use blanket statements.

What I meant was that if I spent x amount of time defending this camp, getting it to t 3, a thief like my self can stealth past the sentrys and just kill them few guards with making crosses and possibly flipping before anyone 1 came.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’

Well he’s got us there.