In all seriousness though, thanks for bringing this up. I’d been meaning to fix this for a while, but it fell off my radar in light of higher priority issues.
Good news: This is now fixed. Bad news?: This is fixed in the build where we disable Desert BL and bring back Alpine BL
DBL Camps: Reduced the number of base guards from 4 to 3.
DBL Camps: Base guards are now a combination of both Scout and Guard NPCs.
DBL Camps: Guards have been moved inside the capture circle.
Not sure the reduction to 3 was needed and I’m also a bit confused why this is on the ABL since the camps on EB are still like they have been… BUT are they wearing tiaras? If not I’m disappointed!
(Thx for the fix though).
In all seriousness though, thanks for bringing this up. I’d been meaning to fix this for a while, but it fell off my radar in light of higher priority issues.
Good news: This is now fixed. Bad news?: This is fixed in the build where we disable Desert BL and bring back Alpine BL
DBL Camps: Reduced the number of base guards from 4 to 3.
DBL Camps: Base guards are now a combination of both Scout and Guard NPCs.
DBL Camps: Guards have been moved inside the capture circle.
Rotate plz
All 4 maps in use. Last week’s loser gets home advantage.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
If we are going to go in a more pvp and less pve direction, a good change would be to remove the delay on white swords for camps. I understand why it was put in place for towers/keeps, but if someone keeping an eye on a camp can respond quickly that’s more pvp for everyone. I would also consider increasing the CD on guard respawn but also increasing the time needed to stay in the circle to cap a camp.
Why reduce the number of base guards, though? Perhaps there’s some other motivation, but that doesn’t seem in line with the other two changes. Since the second change isn’t a big jump in power and the third is more of a bugfix, why weaken camps with the first change?
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
Honestly who really cares? The alpine is coming back soon enough and we can just stick to EB on the weeks they rotate in the crappy deserted map. They can make any changes they want to on the desert bl at this point, add in more air ships, add in random flowers that shoot killer rainbows at people if they don’t play some pve meta event, or whatever other crazy kitten they come up with.
Hopefully after enough time goes by where they see the desert is empty week after week they will remove it for good.
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
The topic of this thread is about the camp’s guard spawns, thats what Tyler was talking about, and what his change is about. There are numberous threads about the other pve aspects and hot additions you can comment on, or start your own, but yelling in caps at a dev is not going to get you anywhere.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
I really don’t see where yelling is gonna get you lol dude tyler and his team are literally putting in all their effort to make WVW better. The pve is mostly in DBL not in EB or ABL.
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
I really don’t see where yelling is gonna get you lol dude tyler and his team are literally putting in all their effort to make WVW better. The pve is mostly in DBL not in EB or ABL. Tyler so here’s a suggestion for DBL how about you guys turn DBL into a EB map I mean you guys have already removed oasis might as well put a big castle in the middle of the map switch the current EB map out DBL EB might just get more fun.
I get your point, but personally I would rather they fix the essential issues with the dbl before deciding what can possibly be added to the center of the map.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
I reduced the number of guards to be consistent with EB and ABL.
EB & ABL camps start with 1 Supervisor, 2 Scouts and 1 Guard
DBL camps started with 1 Supervisor and 4 Guards
Tyler so here’s a suggestion for DBL how about you guys turn DBL into a EB map I mean you guys have already removed oasis might as well put a big castle in the middle of the map switch the current EB map out DBL EB might just get more fun.
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
I really don’t see where yelling is gonna get you lol dude tyler and his team are literally putting in all their effort to make WVW better. The pve is mostly in DBL not in EB or ABL. Tyler so here’s a suggestion for DBL how about you guys turn DBL into a EB map I mean you guys have already removed oasis might as well put a big castle in the middle of the map switch the current EB map out DBL EB might just get more fun.
I get your point, but personally I would rather they fix the essential issues with the dbl before deciding what can possibly be added to the center of the map.
He did say they reworked stab and some other skills for wvw and are bringing back alpline bls. That itself should make community a lot happier. You are also right but they shoild focus more on fixing stuff but I am pretty sure they will bring back DBL after they remove it and fix it so might just start giving suggestions now
There still seems to be some miscommunication. Quantity of guards was NEVER a problem. DON’T FIX WHAT ISN’T BROKEN.
THE REAL PROBLEM OF “TOO MUCH PVE” STEMMED FROM HOT AND IT’S BULLkitten GIMMICKS.
I’ll try to make this as clear as possible. Leave quantity of guards at campus alone.
I really don’t see where yelling is gonna get you lol dude tyler and his team are literally putting in all their effort to make WVW better. The pve is mostly in DBL not in EB or ABL. Tyler so here’s a suggestion for DBL how about you guys turn DBL into a EB map I mean you guys have already removed oasis might as well put a big castle in the middle of the map switch the current EB map out DBL EB might just get more fun.
I get your point, but personally I would rather they fix the essential issues with the dbl before deciding what can possibly be added to the center of the map.
He did say they reworked stab and some other skills for wvw and are bringing back alpline bls. That itself should make community a lot happier. You are also right but they shoild focus more on fixing stuff but I am pretty sure they will bring back DBL after they remove it and fix it so might just start giving suggestions now
Fair enough, Id want to discuss this more, but I dont want to take this thread off topic, perhaps you can start a new one with this idea.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
My two cents on the subject is I think they had the right formula for guards/ scouts and supers. What bothered me was the mini pve events that were introduced with HOT, along with the airships, and bubbles.
A reduction in guards could really hurt both sides and reduce confrontations.
Whoever set the timing, strength and numbers was pretty genius in my humble opinion.
The NPC can hold off a camp from being flipped just long enough for someone to respond (and yes the super’s timer will still be needed because its the only thing that slows a zerg down). Too few guards would also impact the soloist or small havoc squads that depends on them for protection after they flip a camp.
I came back to add that I agree with crimemakers idea of turning the DBL into a new EB. the WP’s need to be tweaked more like the old bl and EB because not having a wp to get across that map is a real cruncher.
I reduced the number of guards to be consistent with EB and ABL.
EB & ABL camps start with 1 Supervisor, 2 Scouts and 1 Guard
DBL camps started with 1 Supervisor and 4 Guards
Ok, that’s fair.
I thought the increased number of guards was supposed to make camps more difficult, so I didn’t peg it as a map only thing. Since I’ve been on EBG maybe twice since HoT dropped, I didn’t realize that camps were different there.
I dislike PVE in WvW, but I use camps to test my play skills and compare professions/builds. For testing, it was ok that not all npcs were aggroed to fight.
well i think in wvw there are clashing thee different types of ppl together
some which want to do the pvp challange and want to have the big scale fights including ganking;duelling and so on (those ppl dont care about pve)
those who seek roaming and fighting in some pve content and get the rush to find a challenger ( they care about the fight in general which means pve and pvp)
the strategic warfar type those who care about updating objectives and keep the points and the server up (care about tactical pvp and pve)
so of cores most ppl are thinking about less pve but you can’t put it away.
if you would do everyone would complain about to easy caps or a single person can cap a keep….
imo the pve should be more challenging. You won’t have too much night cap problems ; You would have the opportunity to defend a camp… Just remember on alpine what happend when your full updated northcamp was under attack.
i think the scaling system should depend on how many defenders are in the area. if you have a big blob fighting a boss with no defenders it should be very hard for them. the more defenders are in the area the “easyer” it should be. it would give defenders the oppertunity to get to defend the keep/tower/camp and it would create some more fights. the scaling of the lord should last for about 2 mins so if you are fighting with a blob and win the fight it should then be an normal lordkill and cap
i think the scaling system should depend on how many defenders are in the area. if you have a big blob fighting a boss with no defenders it should be very hard for them. the more defenders are in the area the “easyer” it should be. it would give defenders the oppertunity to get to defend the keep/tower/camp and it would create some more fights. the scaling of the lord should last for about 2 mins so if you are fighting with a blob and win the fight it should then be an normal lordkill and cap
“Yo, we’re about to lose our keep, zerg in Lord’s” “Leave it, we will be there in 5 mins while we cap these 2 towers of the third server.”
Not a good Idea, tbh. If you want to keep your stuff, watch it – common sense.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
“Yo, we’re about to lose our keep, zerg in Lord’s” “Leave it, we will be there in 5 mins while we cap these 2 towers of the third server.”
Not a good Idea, tbh. If you want to keep your stuff, watch it – common sense.
of corse you will have to watch it and also the towers will have the same scale when there are defenders in and when not so you are not able to get 2 towers while someone is hitting your lord in a keep.
The same time your attacking team number is scaling the lord up the defending team number should scale it down for a %
eg. a fight 10(attacking)vs 20 the lord should scale with -50%.
and i think they need to be harder because you can just solo those lords in DBL. Alpine was harder to solocap a keep tower or camps. i mean i am speaking against most wishes with less pve in wvw. Because you cant even defend a camp any more. one solo dude runs into a fully updated camp kill 2 npcs in less then 30 s leave the rest outside the circle and you see ohh the camp is under attack oh its fliped already… nm
of corse you will have to watch it and also the towers will have the same scale when there are defenders in and when not so you are not able to get 2 towers while someone is hitting your lord in a keep.
The same time your attacking team number is scaling the lord up the defending team number should scale it down for a %
eg. a fight 10(attacking)vs 20 the lord should scale with -50%.
and i think they need to be harder because you can just solo those lords in DBL. Alpine was harder to solocap a keep tower or camps. i mean i am speaking against most wishes with less pve in wvw. Because you cant even defend a camp any more. one solo dude runs into a fully updated camp kill 2 npcs in less then 30 s leave the rest outside the circle and you see ohh the camp is under attack oh its fliped already… nm
So the towers will just be incredibly hard, no matter whether or not there’s defenders in? If you bomb the tower’s entry it’s very likely defenders are there but can’t reach you – you get the bonus easy scaling and cap the lord real quick while some roamers of your team open the next tower – it is entirely possible and it would be a bad idea to scale a lord to super hard when there’s no defenders around.
The camps have been fixed btw. And with next week probably some of the power creep will be fixed as well. The problems wvw has got are complex, there is no easy fix.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
OMFG! This comment is from a Game Designer!!!!
Words cannot describe this, so I guess the closest thing we can do is this image
I mean come on seriously!!! WTF
Attachments:
We’ll release SAB, everybody loves SAB they wont notice the lack of other updates!
it would not surprise me at all, given Anet’s goal of removing any soloable content completely from the game since the HoT release, if they made all the camp guards Champs, each with a special ability to one shot a player if that player is not in a group with at least four other members.
Maybe they should just finish soloers and small guilds off completely now and require you to be in a guild with at least 50 members to even enter WvW…
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
Less PVE means less gimmicks. Camps, towers, and keeps were all fine the way they were before on the alpine BL. Its all the gimmicks that everyone hates but you already know that don’t you smart alek.
well i think in wvw there are clashing thee different types of ppl together
some which want to do the pvp challange and want to have the big scale fights including ganking;duelling and so on (those ppl dont care about pve)
those who seek roaming and fighting in some pve content and get the rush to find a challenger ( they care about the fight in general which means pve and pvp)
the strategic warfar type those who care about updating objectives and keep the points and the server up (care about tactical pvp and pve)
so of cores most ppl are thinking about less pve but you can’t put it away.
if you would do everyone would complain about to easy caps or a single person can cap a keep….
imo the pve should be more challenging. You won’t have too much night cap problems ; You would have the opportunity to defend a camp… Just remember on alpine what happend when your full updated northcamp was under attack.
i think the scaling system should depend on how many defenders are in the area. if you have a big blob fighting a boss with no defenders it should be very hard for them. the more defenders are in the area the “easyer” it should be. it would give defenders the oppertunity to get to defend the keep/tower/camp and it would create some more fights. the scaling of the lord should last for about 2 mins so if you are fighting with a blob and win the fight it should then be an normal lordkill and cap
You are missing a 4th type. Those that just want to finish their dailies.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
The first part is important, not the one about PvE.
You should have an advantage of the “human factor” of clever positioning to fight LESS NPC guards by luring or getting part of the guards to certain spots to kill them without aggro’ing the rest of the camp.
Having a close group that all attack you when one is triggered (pretty much all of old ABL) is not the better design. It just made you seek out one specific choke points and the use of the best meta AoE/CC to take down the NPCs. The amount of having to think about cleverly taking the camp is reduced here a lot compared to the DBL camps.
I agree that the SE DBL camp needs a fix, so you can’t kill the supervisor inside the stable, but I firmly believe that having all of the guards aggro & standing in the circle is two steps back.
Ideally, the “basic guards” (not the patrolling ones) should have a spawn spot just inside and just outside the circle, so by RNG the camp looks different. This way you are forced to use your brain and you will benefit from observing the situation at the camp.
Member of The Guildwars Online Guild [GWO]
Still keeps a volume of Kurzick poems ;)
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
- It would be refreshing to see a game where things work as intended before we start discussing which direction to move from there. So you’re saying that there’s guards on the camp with all the elaborate level upgrades and so, and some of them just happen to stand a little bit on the side that they don’t fight the camp invaders. Isn’t that kind of stupid?
so doing a bit of roaming this morining, the usal stuff…hunting people for fights flipping camp’s sentrys.
i came to this camp on green borderland and only had 2 kill 2 guards and the lord and the rest of the npc’s were out of the circle for easy cap
is this normal or just bad spawn of mobs ?
Flipping a camp became more difficult with HoT. I heard it many times over that people couldn’t solo a camp. If you are smart and careful with positioning though, you can aggro specific guards and the supervisor individually. Even to the point of not needing to kill all of them.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
This form of PvE, camp Guards, is actually ok Tyler. I believe we can easily help find a good balance of PvE in WvW. The amount of blinds, stuns, and immob from the camp guards may be a bit too high.
This is going a bit off topic but, with HoT Anet pushed and promoted CC’s. Yet, not realizing CC’s kill the fluid motion of PvP combat. It reduces the fun of combat overall and it’s one of the larger issues of WvW right now. Combat simply isn’t as fun as it used to be.
It would be easy enough to move all the camp guards closer to the center, so you’d always have to fight all of them to flip a camp. But to be clear, you guys are arguing that you want to do ‘more PvE’, which seems to go against the forum’s current agenda of ‘less PvE.’
Smart thinking. I’m liking the new direction Anet is taking.
The notion of WvW players loving PvE may have been some metric that Wvw players did a lot of PvE. This was so they could farm gold and guild commendations for gear. Good to see Anet now has large brains behind them to see rationale through “some” community input. The guy talking in all-caps in this thread about something irrelevant, not so much.
The best part of Wvw is the zerg combat and what has lured people to it ever since the release of the game. Almost every youtube video of Wvw is of fights and not Pve aspects. With this conglomerate of evidence you guys are taking the correct direction.
Minor bugfixes weren’t a part of the update, probably due to higher priority things taking up all of their time. For example, the eastern earth shrine still doesn’t give it’s blessing on capping it—you have to manually interact with it.
