Guild Wars 2

Ok , i know hundreds of thousands of people get map completion…but wvw can be a little tricky especially if your world cycles between two colors for weeks or even months on end. I am on my second char for map completion the first one went like a dream and took about 3 days for the wvw bit but my second is stuck on green/blue and i need 1 vista and 1 poi in E. B. which is inside a well defended fort. Numerous times i have camped out nearby but end up well battered…eventually, and then start again after way pointing back to the begining of my safe area. What i propose is that each char be allowed 600 seconds non combative access to wvw per week and while in wvw they could be seen by players as a yellow dot and their map chat disabled. Also non combats would be able to go through any color gate.
once each char has got all of wvw then the option would no longer be available. On the wvw entrance we could have a tick box for non combative. cmon devs this would work and with a little tweaking would be spy proof

About spying, many WvW players use a voice chat such as Teamspeak. Many servers urge their players in WvW to get on the server channel so disabling type chat won’t eliminate spying in your suggestion.

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

Allaw.6180:

Ok , i know hundreds of thousands of people get map completion…but wvw can be a little tricky especially if your world cycles between two colors for weeks or even months on end. I am on my second char for map completion the first one went like a dream and took about 3 days for the wvw bit but my second is stuck on green/blue and i need 1 vista and 1 poi in E. B. which is inside a well defended fort. Numerous times i have camped out nearby but end up well battered…eventually, and then start again after way pointing back to the begining of my safe area. What i propose is that each char be allowed 600 seconds non combative access to wvw per week and while in wvw they could be seen by players as a yellow dot and their map chat disabled. Also non combats would be able to go through any color gate.
once each char has got all of wvw then the option would no longer be available. On the wvw entrance we could have a tick box for non combative. cmon devs this would work and with a little tweaking would be spy proof

So i just go into non combat mode, go into an enemy tower or keep and wait until the buff runs out, then i kill all the siege inside.

Sound foolproof.

in that case spying already happens and tbh it would take 3/ to 4 minutes to get anywhere interesting and report back and opposition moves so quick in wvw that spying for 1 minute per week is not a big issue

no after your allotted 600 seconds per week you are automatically ejected back to lions arch

Allaw.6180:

no after your allotted 600 seconds per week you are automatically ejected back to lions arch

But then i know, where all the enemy siege is inside their fortifications, i go back into wvw report it.
I dont know why you want to alter a game mode for the worse, just to reach your personal goals.

Thats very selfish.

Allaw.6180:

in that case spying already happens and tbh it would take 3/ to 4 minutes to get anywhere interesting and report back and opposition moves so quick in wvw that spying for 1 minute per week is not a big issue

600 seconds is 10 minutes, not one.

What if they rotated the buff between the players? Once one person’s buff falls off, another one starts and they use teamspeak to coordinate this.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

I think at least they could change where the poi places are. There was one in a building that I couldn’t get for ages. All I’d do for weeks was login, go to WvW see I couldn’t get into the place, silently curse Anet and log out. Sure WvW is kind of a group effort but mapping is not. Plus on maps irl you have symbols for churches etc. not detailed plans of the interiors so why do we have to go inside these buildings to map the area?

This will never change though and Anet will probably interpret the request as a desire for more cumbersome UI elements which will get added at the top left. Big red flashing square if you haven’t mapped the area 100%, big green one if you have :P

its not personal or selfish at all lots and lots and lots of people would like a way to do wvw map completion without the hold up that is there.. I did mention tweaks… what if people where not allowed back in to wvw for say 30 mins after their weekly non combat entry

sorry cant count i meant to write 300 seconds and it would take 3 to 4 mins to get anywhere interesting so the spying time using teamspeak is not really a big deal considering there are already better ways to spy

What if the server had a number of people (who are on teamspeak with most of the other WvW player on that server) put on the buff, run to different areas and report and the server uses that information in their plans?

They could rotate the spy duty between several groups of people who play regularly. They could offer incentives to non WvW players to do a run and report.

You might want to check with the WvW players about a free spy session per week available to all players on the server and whether or not this is game changing.

all that co ordination would not happen…..as someone has already suggested there are easier and better ways to spy already in use…. the co ordination is a barrier

Allaw.6180:

all that co ordination would not happen…..as someone has already suggested there are easier and better ways to spy already in use…. the co ordination is a barrier

Teamspeak. Free to download and already in common use.

Wanze.8410:

Allaw.6180:

no after your allotted 600 seconds per week you are automatically ejected back to lions arch

But then i know, where all the enemy siege is inside their fortifications, i go back into wvw report it.
I dont know why you want to alter a game mode for the worse, just to reach your personal goals.

Thats very selfish.

+1
I can’t believe i’m agreeing with you after all the times you annoyed me in wvw with the constant tagging.

See? This is exactly the sort of clash of two mindsets we’ve been droning on about in all of these threads.

If the POIs/Vistas have to stay, maybe there could be an option to buy “maps” for them that unlock all of the points. That way you could “play how you want” (PvE) and just go earn some gold for them.

I know that sort of takes away from the spirit of exploration, but so does exploring essentially the exact same map 3 times in a row. “Well… This keep looks the same as it did the previous two times. Guess I don’t need to be out here.”

This whole idea that players will help players. That I could ask “Hey, I really need to unlock this POI, can we go for that keep?” and everyone would hold the war for me… well I’ve never had that work. ONE TIME I saw a zerg try to help a new player get a point, but they were nice and casual and ultimately failed.

Map completion being part of WvW is a good thing. A great thing. Hear me out here.

I also had a hard time with the WvW portion of map completion my first time around. I waited weeks, then months for my server to be the color I needed. And even then, enemies were constantly taking our keep and doing a good job of holding it. I started playing (and enjoying) WvW because I went there for the POIs and vistas. I learned how to play effectively and how much fun it could be. And this was when Crystal Desert had almost no presence in WvW. It’s better now than it was, and it might not be if it weren’t for people coming to WvW initially for the map completion.

Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Ask your guild if they’re on your server. Ask in map chat. Chances are, a lot of people have the same objective as you. If you see a commander on the map, ask if they’ll help by taking something you need. A lot of the time, they will.

Non-combatants in WvW are a huge liability, as already mentioned. I doubt it’ll ever be implemented for that reason. Ask the community for help! You might even make some new friends.

Why do I have to play PvE to get 100% map completion if I;’m exclusively WvW player?
Opinion on that OP?

We’ve all had to do it, horse beaten further.

I personally have managed to map all WvW maps on multiple characters. Even when my server has been the same colour for weeks on end. Asking commanders to take X, a lot of the time they will. However I can see some times this wont be so easy..

Building on this idea. I’m not sure if it’s possible tho;

The main issue with this proposal is that borderlands and eb is queued a lot of the time. This means that every player on the map is crucial and really needs to be actively doing WvW.
Siege placement and ally placement is crucial and can make a big difference between success or defeat.
So to build on this proposal;

Ghost-Traveller. You effectively become a ghost and can travel around the WvW map. You can’t see other players, you can’t see siege placement and you can’t pick up supply/deploy siege or otherwise interfere with the world.

The only thing you can do is interact with Vistas/PoIs (and skill points – might be tricky as 3 of them are killing a mob so perhaps not skill points)

During Ghost mode you have a 50% speed buff. (No skills are useable)

This would be a buff that lasts for X minutes (say 30) and has a cool down of 24 hours
Entering a WvW map as a ghost would not take up a queue spot (or map spot)[not sure how this would work technically speaking]
Ending the Ghost buff would remove you from WvW back to Lions Arch.

-I’m not saying this would be a good idea to implement. I’m just building on OPs suggestion.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

^ This – give 1 (gift of exploration) for 100% world zone completion and 1 for 100% WvW completion = easier for WvW lovers to get a bunch and longer but not as a much of a pain in the #$%$# for people who hate anything to do with PvP.

Wanze.8410:

Allaw.6180:

Ok , i know hundreds of thousands of people get map completion…but wvw can be a little tricky especially if your world cycles between two colors for weeks or even months on end. I am on my second char for map completion the first one went like a dream and took about 3 days for the wvw bit but my second is stuck on green/blue and i need 1 vista and 1 poi in E. B. which is inside a well defended fort. Numerous times i have camped out nearby but end up well battered…eventually, and then start again after way pointing back to the begining of my safe area. What i propose is that each char be allowed 600 seconds non combative access to wvw per week and while in wvw they could be seen by players as a yellow dot and their map chat disabled. Also non combats would be able to go through any color gate.
once each char has got all of wvw then the option would no longer be available. On the wvw entrance we could have a tick box for non combative. cmon devs this would work and with a little tweaking would be spy proof

So i just go into non combat mode, go into an enemy tower or keep and wait until the buff runs out, then i kill all the siege inside.

Sound foolproof.

There is a relatively simple solution for this. When you’re in non-combat mode, you’re invisible to all enemies, but all other enemies are also invisible to you, making it impossible to scout enemy movements.

When the buff runs out/you exit the transformation, you are instantly teleported back to your server’s safe zone, so you can’t use it to get into restricted areas.

But in any case, I still prefer my solution, which is to split WvW and PvE map completion. Completing either one grants 1 Gift of Exploration, so you still end up with two per character.

I doubt anyone who has taken the time to do Map Completion would be happy with this work around or any work around for that matter hardly seems sporting.

Nick.6972:

Why do I have to play PvE to get 100% map completion if I;’m exclusively WvW player?
Opinion on that OP?

Because Guild Wars 2 is a PvE game first and a pvp game second.
PvE is where most of the dev’s attention goes and were most of the content is.

Roundabout.1752:

I doubt anyone who has taken the time to do Map Completion would be happy with this work around or any work around for that matter hardly seems sporting.

^

Yah. That’s proposing that a gift of exploration should be handed out to anyone who can make an alt, run it through the WvW maps, get the gift then delete and repeat as wanted to get another.

It’s not even remotely half the amount of time and effort the people who did map 100% put in.

How about this… this might sound crazy but hear me out…

Let the PvE’ers do their thing in PvE….
Let the PvP’ers do their thing in PvP….
Let the WvW’ers do their thing in WvW….

Have alternate ways of obtaining the same prizes, specific to your preferred game mode. PvE’ers should not be forced to PvP… and the other way around.

that old chestnut, map completion P.V.E.

SenorMoody.5908:

How about this… this might sound crazy but hear me out…

Let the PvE’ers do their thing in PvE….
Let the PvP’ers do their thing in PvP….
Let the WvW’ers do their thing in WvW….

Have alternate ways of obtaining the same prizes, specific to your preferred game mode. PvE’ers should not be forced to PvP… and the other way around.

Nothing, nothing in the game forces PvEer’s to PvP or PvPer’s to PvE if you don’t want to do what is necessary to get World Completion, then don’t, no part of the game will be denied to you because you can’t be bothered to do what everyone else who want wanted World Completion did. There is no part of the game that requires you to tackle and accomplish World Completion no content will be denied you nothing that that you can’t play because you didn’t do what thousands of other players have done. If you want a Legendary then buy one or do what everyone else does and build it including a bit of mapping.

Roundabout.1752:

SenorMoody.5908:

How about this… this might sound crazy but hear me out…

Let the PvE’ers do their thing in PvE….
Let the PvP’ers do their thing in PvP….
Let the WvW’ers do their thing in WvW….

Have alternate ways of obtaining the same prizes, specific to your preferred game mode. PvE’ers should not be forced to PvP… and the other way around.

Nothing, nothing in the game forces PvEer’s to PvP or PvPer’s to PvE if you don’t want to do what is necessary to get World Completion, then don’t, no part of the game will be denied to you because you can’t be bothered to do what everyone else who want wanted World Completion did. There is no part of the game that requires you to tackle and accomplish World Completion no content will be denied you nothing that that you can’t play because you didn’t do what thousands of other players have done. If you want a Legendary then buy one or do what everyone else does and build it including a bit of mapping.

Thats where you are wrong, Map completion forces players of both types PVE and PVP to go into the places they hate if they want a legendary. I hate pvp, i hate it, i did map completion once, in 2.5 years, ive done it once. i wont ever do it again because i have to go into WvW to get it.

But i did do it. It doesnt take long, get into a guild who does wvw, there are many, and they are quite helpful if asked!

Nick.6972:

Why do I have to play PvE to get 100% map completion if I;’m exclusively WvW player?
Opinion on that OP?

Because map completion is supposed to show you have been everywhere and seen everything in the game. Yes, its a demand for legendary weapons. Why shouldnt full exploration of the game be?

Now answer this question: If you only play a part of the game, have you explored the entire game?

Its not like its hard to do in PvE. It take a couple of hours per map if you’re slow and not 80, less if you are fully geared and ignore everything. Only a few of the maps are really annoying to traverse (straits, uuuugh). In WvW, its the easiest thing ever… if youre the proper color is up or you get lucky with sieges. Meaning, its only a matter of time. Time you wont miss because the only thing you need world completion for will take you alot of time gather mats for if you do it from scratch. Like, 10,000x more time than it took you to finish up your WvW completion.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

Or, you can try and actually play the game like it is intended to, form a group and siege the fortress so you finally get your vista.

You can even request help in map. Sometimes, wvwvw can feel a little pointless and helping a guy get 100% completionmay give some thhe little kick they need.

I suggest we leave PvE out of map completion so WvW only players don’t have to deal with that crap.

Dawdler.8521:

Nick.6972:

Why do I have to play PvE to get 100% map completion if I;’m exclusively WvW player?
Opinion on that OP?

Because map completion is supposed to show you have been everywhere and seen everything in the game. Yes, its a demand for legendary weapons. Why shouldnt full exploration of the game be?

Now answer this question: If you only play a part of the game, have you explored the entire game?

Its not like its hard to do in PvE. It take a couple of hours per map if you’re slow and not 80, less if you are fully geared and ignore everything. Only a few of the maps are really annoying to traverse (straits, uuuugh). In WvW, its the easiest thing ever… if youre the proper color is up or you get lucky with sieges. Meaning, its only a matter of time. Time you wont miss because the only thing you need world completion for will take you alot of time gather mats for if you do it from scratch. Like, 10,000x more time than it took you to finish up your WvW completion.

You didn’t get the point. WvW players are not complaining about having to run 20 PvE maps through to get their map completion. It’s only the PvE players whining having to run through 4 maps.

Dante.1763:

Roundabout.1752:

SenorMoody.5908:

How about this… this might sound crazy but hear me out…

Let the PvE’ers do their thing in PvE….
Let the PvP’ers do their thing in PvP….
Let the WvW’ers do their thing in WvW….

Have alternate ways of obtaining the same prizes, specific to your preferred game mode. PvE’ers should not be forced to PvP… and the other way around.

Nothing, nothing in the game forces PvEer’s to PvP or PvPer’s to PvE if you don’t want to do what is necessary to get World Completion, then don’t, no part of the game will be denied to you because you can’t be bothered to do what everyone else who want wanted World Completion did. There is no part of the game that requires you to tackle and accomplish World Completion no content will be denied you nothing that that you can’t play because you didn’t do what thousands of other players have done. If you want a Legendary then buy one or do what everyone else does and build it including a bit of mapping.

Thats where you are wrong, Map completion forces players of both types PVE and PVP to go into the places they hate if they want a legendary.

I am sorry but you are mistaken.

1) there is no force.
2) map completion is not necessary to get a legendary.

Offering a reward for doing x is not forcing x upon anyone.

Allaw.6180:

its not personal or selfish at all lots and lots and lots of people would like a way to do wvw map completion without the hold up that is there.. I did mention tweaks… what if people where not allowed back in to wvw for say 30 mins after their weekly non combat entry

And what of the people who had to do it before you? Is it fair that they had to do it but you don’t? Sorry not buying it. If it matters so much transfer servers. You can also pay people for their gifts of mastery/clovers.

I think the problem is, that the PVE’ers wouldn’t mind exploring those 4 maps… If they could do it on PVE terms. The ghosting suggested earlier would allow that, so I’m going to build onto it further:
Entering WvW in ghost mode should not make anything invisible at all. It should simply toss you into a simplified instance of WvW for exploration and learning purposes.
In the instance, the player should be commander and have unlimited amounts of blue prints. 50 NPC fighters should follow the player all over the map, with options to move them to specific places, using the commanders Map Orders. ALL objectives around the map should be owned by an opposing NPC force of 30-50 units.
This could also be used to teach new players basic WvW, how to build siege engines, what value things have, etc etc. Without having to worry about other players spoiling their exploration. this game mode would make exploring WvW, interesting, and though still time consuming, it wouldn’t be months and years without end, waiting for an opening, while being a bother to the real WvW’ers, because, you cant spy, and you don’t fill up a slot on the server… because, you’re inside an instance… and hey! when you get outa there… you know a little bit about WvW, before rushing in there…

Of the people who had to do it before you? as Bold expressed it: I am quite sure that those people would be happy, not to have to do that again… And if they are not, they should stick their legendary up where it belongs… Yes… you got it right… there are a lot of players who doesn’t care about the legendaries… But do world exploration, for the freaking sake of world exploration… to those, WvW is a real pain… and those are often the ones annoyed with it, because, hey, We wanna PvE… We don’t care about WvW or them ugly legendaries with their horrible trail(I will just stop there because otherwise i’ll write a short book about how horrible i think they are and how sad i am that theres no cool looking legendary skins)… Sure, if you want a bragging stick, go for it, but why should that have to affect the rest of us, who just want to play the game and have fun? Why the heck do we have to run around like idiots (no offense) to feel the character have completed PvE? o.O but no… those numbers are still stuck on 99% instead of 100%, because, WvW…

That said… on long terms, its no more annoying than a flee on your shoe… just step on it and get it over with…

Why are some people so affraid to get killed in this game? Nothing will happen to you in real life you know.

Its not that we are afraid to get killed… its that we don’t want to spend time doing things we don’t like to do while playing a game to have fun…

Zelanard.5806:

Its not that we are afraid to get killed… its that we don’t want to spend time doing things we don’t like to do while playing a game to have fun…

Yeah but the same applies to WvW players and they are not complaining they need to run through 20 PvE maps. So man up and get the POIs or forget your legendary. The choice is yours.

This debate has been up for a hundred times or more. Not once, even ONCE has Anet ever suggested that they’re considering removing WvW from map completion. Asking them to do it for the 101st time isn’t going to change anything. If they will do it, they will. In the meantime, it’s 99% certain you’ll get the map completion faster by doing the WvW part yourself.

Zelanard.5806:

Its not that we are afraid to get killed… its that we don’t want to spend time doing things we don’t like to do while playing a game to have fun…

I’m sorry but that does not sound right. Why is completion different in pve from wvw? Same boring last points of interest and some vistas. The only difference I see is that in one part of the map is that you can get killed while in pve you cannot.

Whenever some of you make a post about WvW world completion requirements and how annoying it is for you, please also consider how annoying it is for WvW players that have to do PvE they don’t enjoy doing.

It’s the same thing but in reverse.

I’ll tell you what, you can have WvW removed from your PvE world completion, and in return, WvW players should be able to acquired their gold and Ascended gear completely - and reliably - from WvW. Deal?

Wvw is so easy nowadays, especially with the winning server of your bracket (in glicko score), no longer has permanent green. The loosing/mid server get their way into the other colours too. So you basically sooner or later will get everything.

If you want to speedclear map completion, well then be dissapointed. But hey it’s map completion… Every time you are green, you do your corner of bl and of EB. Do same for every colour and tara… succes. Peace of cake. Just took a little time, but hey it supports TWO Legendaryies.

Just learn the map, how they work. But then again, some people don’t wanna learn wvw, and I guess that’s bigger issue then map completion.

OP, have you asked in map chat for help with Map completion? Maybe make on thread on your server’s website and you could get a time, like before reset, to do it? You can even whisper the enemy before said event and they’ll likely let you take the property right before reset. Even better, suggestion a k-train for the hour before reset. We used to do just that back in the day.

This isn’t something for the Dev’s to work out. This is something for the players to work on.

GW2 is an expansive game. Making a Legendary was never meant to be easy. Moreover, WvW is considered to be a part of PvE. That’s why your server’s warscore affects the increases to crafting, gathering, stats, magic find, etc., that players who never set foot in WvW enjoy. WvW helps make Legendaries faster.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_of_the_Mists

What the devs really need to do is make these Power of the Mists buffs a lot more obvious to PvE players. It is kind of hidden away in the WvW panel.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

No, no. no. no and no.

Did I mention No!

If we WvW players have to do all the PvE maps for our map completion, then surely 4 small maps in WvW isnt a problem for PvE players.

Keep it in, I am sick of PvE getting all the pandering from the devs. WvW is part of the World, map completion means getting all the points in the world! It’s pathetic that you are coming here complaining about not being able to get that last POI or vista!
Just wait a few weeks, sooner or later your server will be assigned the colour you need to be, making map completion so much more easier. Or is waiting too hard to do? If so move to a better server. I am sure you have made enough gold from farming in PvE to get enough gems, use it!

Lishtenbird.2814:

Or we can leave WvW out of map completion altogether, as has been requested thousands of times.

Or we could leave PvE out of map completion. I can train a blind monkey to accomplish the PvE content. I admit, I actually enjoy the content though. That doesn’t justify every PvE monkey constantly crapping on WvW and it’s community and segregating us.

Why should PvE get all the rewards? Why should PvE be the only way to get rewarded?

I dunno, but segregationist who support that concept are harmful to the community.

Allaw.6180:

its not personal or selfish at all lots and lots and lots of people would like a way to do wvw map completion without the hold up that is there.. I did mention tweaks… what if people where not allowed back in to wvw for say 30 mins after their weekly non combat entry

I call bull hockey on that. You want the game mode redesigned for your personal convenience, then cry foul when your called out for being selfish?

If your so honorable with your thoughts, as you disingenuously try to claim, why do you argue in favor of your idea knowing it allows cheap spying. You continue once it is pointed out, under the pretense of your claim that they exist? It is one thing for shady players to commit shady acts, it is another thing for you to sit here and demand the game mode redesigned for your convenience under that guise.

Pve purists will always complain about this, even though wvw is actually required for a legendary aside from the mapping. If they think its so bad they should talk to someone who only does pvp and wants a legendary. Seriously if they dont want to do the required tasks then dont do it, nothing is forcing you, can always save up the gold to buy it straight from the tp. If you want dungeon master title you dont post a million threads on forums about how one of them should be taken out because you dont like it.

What Anet can do is simply guarantee map colors rotate every week and that no server has the same color in 3 straight matchups. The problem with this is what happens if there is a new server in the matchup and 2 servers involved in the matchup are both supposed to be a specific color. But anyways quit complaining about it, get a group together, find a group w/e its not hard to map it can be done solo, with a small group, etc. Ive done all 4 maps on 10 toons in t1, silver/bronze tiers its not that bad.

Why do you hate pvp so much?

Most if my 9 characters have 16% map done which is all the wvw maps and a walk to that place with all the zombie mobs to buy a green aqua breather

I tried to do map completion on my mes but i got lost in cave, it was rly deep. I think shes still there, the goblins are coming, I can hear them, the wizard needs to save me…
Or maybe that was just a movie I saw once.

X T D.6458:

What Anet can do is simply guarantee map colors rotate every week and that no server has the same color in 3 straight matchups. The problem with this is what happens if there is a new server in the matchup and 2 servers involved in the matchup are both supposed to be a specific color. But anyways quit complaining about it, get a group together, find a group w/e its not hard to map it can be done solo, with a small group, etc. Ive done all 4 maps on 10 toons in t1, silver/bronze tiers its not that bad.

If more PvE-centric people joined the people in WvW so as to get their POIs, they might find that they help influence their server changing colour in subsequent weeks.

Also PvErs, here’s a tip: when your side owns a fair chunk of a map in WvW, get the POIs you can, then do it for all of your alts – even the non-80 ones. You’ll appreciate this in the future, and we’ll appreciate that you’re not back here complaining about our competitive game mode and how it should be made “easier” for people who don’t intend to stick around anyway.