Guild Wars 2

Reborn Grijmblade.2396:

Leave thieves alone, and create a counter to stealth.
To maintain balance, every mechanic must have a counter.
If no counter is present, you will be left with an overpowered mechanism.

I believe this is the smartest answer here.

Give certain classes some trait that allows them to knock things out of stealth. For example, Rangers could knock them out of stealth with traps, Engineers could use their turrets, Necromancers could use their wells, etc.

Throwing in my two cents…

Don’t travel alone, I see the thief class as a stalker. Thieves prey on the alone and vanish before help arrives. Travel as a group and the chances of you dying to a thief are reduced.

A very good thief can take on multiple enemies, but to solo a group he needs to very good and are with a terrible group.

Not all thieves are good. I’m a walking example of a poorly played thief.

Tyellock.2697:

Throwing in my two cents…

Don’t travel alone, I see the thief class as a stalker.

That’s the thing!

Players complain about blobbing / zerging. Arenanet wants to promote small scale WvWvW. Yet even in their own live stream video Anet developers were hugging the walls and avoiding any situation they could be overrun by an equal or bigger force (for comparison I solo roam in busy map, prime time, no stealth). It is true that most players are scared to move around solo or even in small groups (e.g. just 2-3). So Arenanet’s bad design choices are one of the reasons why we have so much blobbing and zerging.

One thing about thieves is that they get to pick their build to maximize their 1 on 1 skills. Other classes usually have skills for small group/zerg fights and it is impractical to retrait/change armor/weapons every time you run around the map. Some of us change utilities, but that is about it.

Thieves are really annoying 1 on 1 since they can disengage and reset the fight/flee. When I play my guardian, there is no point in fighting a thief since they can choose to flee at any time. So I don`t bother fighting them.

That said, thieves are one of the weaker classes in the zerg and are not exceptional in a 5 man fight as you need to be fighting and not hiding.

I can see thieves deterring new players from WvW. One is all excited play your ranger your new exotic new bow and then easily killed by a stealthed thief. A guildie of mine doesn`t like WvW, no doubt to some extent due to her being killed by thieves. At some point, the game will become less popular and a lot of the remaining players will be thieves since it is fun just to roam around. This would end up being the death knell for the game.

With the revealed debuff increased back to 3 seconds, I see a lot more thieves running around.

PearlGore.7419:

No you were not.

I categorically was. 7.8xxk iirc, and I do.

Reborn Grijmblade.2396:

Leave thieves alone, and create a counter to stealth.
To maintain balance, every mechanic must have a counter.
If no counter is present, you will be left with an overpowered mechanism.

Woah, woah… careful with the common sense, Grijmblade. Bandwagon thieves everywhere will take to the forums and have your profession nerfed.

In all seriousness, this is what I’ve been saying from the beginning. I never understood why stealth isn’t removable by skills that remove boons.

No real problems with Thief as a guard staying alive anyway. My biggest problem is when the Thief jumps in to attack starts getting his tail end kicked and decides to run away and then come back to bother me again after he ran and I didn’t feel like chasing him. No one likes chasing a thief as a guard. After 4 or 5 times of this it gets old, the thief doesn’t kill me and I am a bunker with moderate DPS so I don’t have the burst to kill them before they decide to run again. No reason to nerf the thief just give me a way to catch him that reaches as far as his sword teleport so I can end the harassment and save myself the time of chasing them, or give me the option to challenge him to mortal combat sorta like a cage fight, it can even have spectators and an npc to place bets at to win tokens to spend on siege equipment. Nothing more satisfying then stomping a thief that has been harassing you and the reason I know this is because Ive watched small legions of people scourer the map looking for one thief just to have that opportunity. Could sell flares that reveal the thief’s location and sell some that tell me which one is the real mesmer giving us something worth while to spend our tokens on. No reason to nerf them. Just buff the rest of us. Guardian with stealth would be fun, yeah I could get used to that….

Evilek.5690:

Grevender.9235:

- invisibility (low level): ended upon attacking any target
.

In the game, in which you can attack him without Target ? Are you kidding me ?

well since you seems to never have played it, copy & paste from the manual:

_ Invisibility: (Spell) (Illusion)
Level: Asn 2, Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) or Yes (harmless, object)

The creature or object touched becomes invisible, vanishing from sight, even from darkvision. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.

Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.

Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as stepping in a puddle). The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. (Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character’s perceptions.) Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area. _

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

removing mug critical hit still makes thiefs in www too strong as due to www environment they can stay perma invisible and cloak delay from 4 to3 second was a mistake as it actualy make fight against them results in certain death as well with ability to finish in stealth
conditions removal and healing in stealth with ability go to stealth and hit from stealth without any penalizations as they can cloak within second with heavy dmg makes them extremely hard to kill even with several experienced players as they can fully regenerate in few seconds because stealth remove agression from them

and you were last on when?

There are so many ways to counter a thief, people are just too blind and ignorant to learn them. The amount of times I see a thief dropping Shadow Refuge and a zerg of players not caring about it, acting as if the thief vanished into thin air instead of blasting the hell out of that “deathtrap”. But afterwards they go complain the forums they died yet again to a thief…..

With that said, I made a huge topic a couple of days ago about which changes thief needs in WvW imo. D/D NEEDS to be encouraged again, because the new meta is d/p..
Area stealth needs a nerf, Shadow Refuge shouldn’t stack you up with 10s stealth.. it is already powerful as it is using it to resurrect someone and both of you safely get away.

Shadow Refuge is THE skill to reset a fight entirely.. I cannot express how much I hate this skill lol. I am a thief and I literally never touch this, such a disgusting OP skill.

Sceinna.3561:

Shadow Refuge is THE skill to reset a fight entirely.. I cannot express how much I hate this skill lol. I am a thief and I literally never touch this, such a disgusting OP skill.

Shadow Refuge is used in 90% to escape when you have a little life.Thief kicked out of the ring works in 95% of cases (warrior/guardian hammer, enginer shield/bombs,mesmer greate sword, etc.) or use autoattack/aoe with your weapon

DanyK.3842:

Almost any class should be able to handle most thieves in WvW. I play all 8 classes and can 1v1 any class with any other. Last night I dueled with a thief on my warrior and had a necro interrupt half way. I downed the thief, /bowed and cleansed those 100 conditions on me and left with 70% health. This is one of those l2p posts. If you have problem with a class you should probably look into your own gameplay instead of QQ. Similar attitudes made mesmers become least demanded. No, no, no.

I am not sure but I think I was that thief, he was using S/D? did we meet for another duels?

Yes, I managed to kill you one time but I think we got like 2 wins for you to 1 for me, people need to play their class and stop QQ about thiefs, the reason you get killed more for thiefs is because is a gank class and people who love to gank usually are good players with lots of training in pvp situations, and no, the amount of hours you spend om WvW in the back of a zerg or the amount of kills you have dont make you good in PvP, most of times you spend hours pressing 1 in zergs so when you face a 1vs1 situation you dont know what to do…

just explain me a thing:
A post sayingt nothing but L2p (usual excuse to defend thieves) is “someone with a brain”.

While Others explaining in details why stealth+mobility+damage is one of the worst idea ever with lot of facts and stuff…

Are not people with a brain and also scrubs (deduction by your 2 posts)?

quite interesting…

P.S. short fact….thief forc e you to predict…if theif player has “a brain” (or is just experienced) he play mindgames making playing VS a thief a matter of CHANCES and not skill……that in thief favor obviously….
EX: afaik a thief in SR can still evade….but hey asking a thief to evade is too much but players need to predict and anticipate evasion against thieves….

We could write a book on what is wrong with thief players double standards.
But i think PvE is a good indicator…
Aside 2 profession most are equally BAD….but for some reason some class sees a huge number of bad players….with few good one just to prove is not a balancing issue that shows how it should be played

I only see 2 legitimate problems with the thief class: Initiative Regen and the ability to enter stealth repeatedly.

The worst thing ANet did with the thief design was balance it around 10 initiative points and then introduce a dozen ways to increase the total amount of initiative, the amount you regen, how you regen it, etc. If the class was properly balanced around the iniative mechanic a lof the complaints in this thread would be resolved.

The problem is the class would have to be nearly completely redesigned to function at all if they change it at this point. And considering the class currently doesn’t offer much of anything anywhere I think it’s a lost cause to expect ANet to change anything.

First off, this is hilarious. Forum goers will whine about thieves until they are completely removed from the game or stealth is nerfed so much that they become free kills. Let me remind you that thieves have been nerfed since this game came out every month and yet people still complain as much as before.

Contrary to popular belief thieves are not the greatest at 1v1’s, nor are they the great glass cannon, sneak attack killers they once were because of the mug nerf. (The only true glass cannon builds that can survive/dps and that work in 1v1 now are Mesmer shatter builds.) Have some awareness. OH and carry a stunbreak, or grab some toughness. If you don’t have either of those your begging thieves to down you.

Anyone dying constantly to thieves are honestly probably just running away trying to form up with a zerg or something. Have some balls and turn around and fight one with whatever strong build your class currently has. OH but blah blah I’m not built for 1v1!! Well if that’s the case then why are you not with your zerg in the first place?

By the way the king of 1v1 in the dueling cirlce belongs to the Mesmer, go look for yourselves in guilds in the right places and you’ll know this to be true. Any decent shatter or phantasm mesmer will destroy any thief build and most builds for that matter. Necro summon builds, BM/Trap Ranger, Scepter Bunker Guard, all these builds easily either beat thieves’ best 1v1 build (D/P) or force thieves to run away in duels. Right now on average all thieves can do in WvW is pick off the bads, draw even in fights vs good players, and perma-stealth around accomplishing nothing. Nerfing them anymore because of ‘Oh i’m underleveled and got ganked trying to herd up with the group’ types of reasons are idiotic and will only further the thief into an even more useless class. If you have problems understanding how to effectly 1v1 a thief or any class for that matter, then pvp for a month or so.

The point of WvW is to help your server. Thieves can do this by roaming and ganking 1v1 catching people off guard. Its the nature of the class. If your wandering around by yourself without the proper 1v1 build for your class then you deserve death. The purpose of WvW is to fight other players so how is this an argument? Either stay with your zerg or build for 1v1? If a thief manages to pick you off before making it to your zerg he either did his job correctly, you didn’t build for a 1v1, or you should move to the zerg with another player.

In conclusion if your calling for nerfs in the sustainability and survivability of stealth built thieves, then thieves must get their damage back to counter all of the bunker classes out there that can still 3-5 shot thieves back. If this happens people will just complain about thief damage again. What people fail to understand is thieves are right now on the cusp of being one of the most worthless classes in fights, with only 1 viable build that keeps them alive vs good players. Also, I know many people playing that will move to mesmer builds for dueling and ganking if thief nerfs continue. So prepare for the all mighty herds of dueling mesmers running around, not that doesn’t already happen.

When my Mesmer gets a new nerf I just play my thief for a few days to feel OP(and save money for new gear).

Silas Drake.8946:

When my Mesmer gets a new nerf I just play my thief for a few days to feel OP(and save money for new gear).

pretty much the same, atm i will only use the guardian on reset nights, thief for the rest.

D/D still obliterating targets

Thieves are the biggest problem in WvW right now. Still way overpowered 1v1, so everyone joins the zerg. There is hardly any small group action anymore because anybody that leaves the blob gets facerolled by thieves.

Ommu.1649:

Thieves are the biggest problem in WvW right now. Still way overpowered 1v1, so everyone joins the zerg. There is hardly any small group action anymore because anybody that leaves the blob gets facerolled by thieves.

Easy to fix.
*First time make lvl80
*Secondly buy exotic gear (no pony Berserker)
*Thirdly learn to play your class and know your enemy
*Fourth use 1v1 build no “zerg zombie build”

An all thief party is quite weak in comparison to other class combination. Been running a party of 2 guards 2 mesmer and ranger and pawning majority thief’s party. Also was running in an all thief party which got owned by a party 2 guard 1 cc war 1 mesmer and 1 dd ele party. Have you rver vs a all mesmet party seriosly holy kitten its strong. Dont what server your on but there is still lots of small man action going on. Obviously you have to be more skilled if you like small man action/solo roaming

Sorry for all spelling errors posting from my phone =]

As already stated, most of the thieves run with a 1VS1 dedicated build, ready for running away from zergs or groups of players. That is probably one of their main roles in MvM, to avoid fights for scouting or conquering far away camps.
Do not expect to get a free kill in 1VS1 and do not expect to finish fights, their builds are normally adapted for that precisely.
At the same time do not expect outstanding zerg performance, their support skills compared to almost any other class are awful…
Thief is what thief is, good in some points and awful in others.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

I can say thief’s are annoying for the most part and not fun at all to fight in WvW and kind of ruin it for me and don’t think the dmg nerf was enough…With that said, it is because I never wanted a dmg nerf, my problem has always been with the stupid amount of resets they have. I am a dps guard, I barely get 17k and yet I can take on most thief’s, not easy if they are good mind you. What is annoying are the ones who do not know how to play and use stealth as a fight reset over and over because they started losing. Come in for a kill and find out its not working out of them…Reset (stealth), recover make new plan restart fight, start losing again, reset, start over and over and over until they get lucky or I make a mistake in the 8th fight with the same person in about 5mins. It is to forgiving to bad players, someone else try the same thing and fail, they will have a long walk back from a WP to try again, but not a thief, they can reset the fight just about anytime they feel like it.

Make it the reverse of what was done to ele’s, let them have perm stealth if you like, I don’t care, but once they get into a fight it has a longer CD of some sort or a block that they can only stealth so often when in combat, that way if they want to get out of a fight they have to plan it and really have to get out of it, not just spam stealth. Give them a dmg boost, or HP boost, I don’t care, it’s the stealth that ruins it. I hear people say that if they stay in stealth that much they can never really do enough dmg, which is true for many bunker builds, but most glass cannons are still on the menu, and even with a tanky build, you always have to be on your toes and ready for it, as they can come and go as they want and you having very little control of keeping them in the fight or pressure on them once they decide to disengage, however, they can put on however much pressure they want. It’s a troll build, some people play it fair and you can tell have skill, the others (most) you can tell have no idea what they are doing yet still suffer little for mistakes.

Aberrant.6749:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

O.o What noobs are letting you hit them with pistol whip?

You’d be surprised…When I was playing S/P and I wasn’t even ’Zerker I went full knights people would just see the thief icon and give up because of this silly viewpoint we will kill everyone in one hit, stand there and take the full hit when I was rooted every single time.

I wasn’t sure if I should laugh or sigh in those moments.

Evilek.5690:

Ommu.1649:

Thieves are the biggest problem in WvW right now. Still way overpowered 1v1, so everyone joins the zerg. There is hardly any small group action anymore because anybody that leaves the blob gets facerolled by thieves.

Easy to fix.
*First time make lvl80
*Secondly buy exotic gear (no pony Berserker)
*Thirdly learn to play your class and know your enemy
*Fourth use 1v1 build no “zerg zombie build”

1) done
2) done
3) done
4) done

Why you you condescending morons always assume its a l2p problem. Thieves are easymode and ruin roaming play.

It’s amazing how everyone makes it seem that the thief is the ONLY one with stealth and therefore requires yet another nerf. Seriously? All the “I can’t play my class so nerf that thief that killed me” threads has resulted in a number of compliant nerfs. If this keeps up, as mentioned before, the thief will be extinct. It’s already on the endangered class list. Allow me to relay what happened to me yesterday.

I was on my thief helping a friend get a wolf. We ran into a warrior that was trying to turn a camp. We engaged. I was in the process of stomping when out of nowhere comes 4 ppl, one of which was a mesmer. Yea, he had cloaked the group and they all attacked me, the thief, ignoring my friend. Fair enough, good move. After getting the wolf, finally, I switched over to my baby mesmer. All of lvl 60.

Running to catch the zerg ball, I was interrupted by a lvl 80 thief. The thing that saddens me is, I downed him. With my uber lvl 20 to 50 gear, including weapons, this poor guy went down. I didn’t have the heart to stomp him and he returned the favour with a bow. The point is, why? Why can a lvl up mesmer, with zip for gear. down a thief? Was he bad at the class? Maybe. Mediocre gear? Probably rare, at the very least lvl 80. Still, he should have been able to kill me.

Do you really want to see the thief class disappear? Who do you think sends intel to commanders, ninjas that last 10 supplies to close a wall or finish that treb? Who runs and recaptures the supply camp, kills the dolyaks to deny the enemy supplies? Yea, sure, other classes can do it but don’t you want them remain with the zerg ball?

Players, Anet, think about what you’re asking/doing to the class. I made a mesmer to better understand the class but it’s increasingly hard not to be thinking my thief will be retired to pve, deleted or I’ll just move to another mmo. I’m sure I’m not the only one contemplating this.

Thief’s aren’t even the best 1v1 a well played high engi, phant mesmer, and dd ele are prob better duelist and bring more to team fights than a thief

Again, they just need to redesign or tweak how stealth on a whole works, because stealth is the ONLY problem I have with thieves. I can fight thieves who avoid using stealth 1v1 and have a really close match, usually ending with both of us in down state. But the second I encounter a thief who spams stealth, I run because there’s no way I’m going to be able to beat them. That’s WITH 3 traps, Entangle, LB#5, and GS being used.

I my opinion thieves are fine as they are. They are a 1vs1 class and thats why they kick kitten When they are put under pressure my more then 1 foe its lot tougher and good thief will use cnd to wait for good time to attack. If thief is class that hits and run or they will die really fast. Thieves take lot dmg in the open. They are easy to kill without stealth (- evade troll build).

Deniara Devious.3948:

Grevender.9235:

it’s beyond my understanding why this game lacks such basic features as a stealth counter.

Of course every powerful game mechanism should either have a hard counter (e.g. see invisibility) or be made extremely scarce (e.g. possible only very rarely).

Arenanet designers seem to have two contradicting visions:
1. Thief should have the highest single target burst, mobility and ability to enter stealth on demand. According to Arenanet thief can decide when to disengage. Thus he sets the rules. As a counter to stealth Arenanet advertises AoE damage, yet some professions don’t have much any AoE (e.g. ranger) and at the same time Arenanet developers are vocally worried that AoE is too powerful and talk about nerfing it.
2. Guild Wars 2 should be esports with large thriving user base. This obviously assumes that the game should be very beginner friendly. Now imagine what the first experience of a solo roamer in WvWvW or someone entering spvp. Insta gibbed by an invisible enemy. Then during downed state stealth stomped. Soon this player will also reroll into a thief or will be afraid to move alone without equal levels of disengagement (mesmer comes close, thus it is also popular choice for solo roamers).
3. Game should have variety. Each profession should have at least 3 valid builds. WvWvW should be as appealing for small scale and roaming as for big zergs.

To make things more funny we have an army of people telling “it is a learn to play issue”, even when many veteran players here admit “fighting against a thief in WvWvW is no fun” and even the lead designer Izzy told in the latest Anet video that a single thief can troll or even kill 5 players and still get away. Izzy told that thieves are not worth chasing. Well, what happens to a game when you take away the fun? It becomes a chore. Well, it is maybe fun for those playing a certain profession.

Many people write that if your character is too squishy it is your own fault that it dies to a thief. You see here claims that your health should be at least 22000 and armor at least 2600 or otherwise you are a glass cannon and deserve to be insta gibbed out of nowhere. Excuse me: if you are playing a low health profession or low armor profession those numbers are pretty high. And yet at the same time we have a lot of people who complain that bunkers are too strong. Why do you think people play the bunkers? To counter the burst. Even worse burst which can come all of sudden without any preparations possible, thus thougness and long-lasting boons like Aegis become sort only protection to give second more reaction time. If there wouldn’t be so much excessive burst, a lot less people would be running bunker builds as the balanced would be the best option. In Guild Wars 1 almost every good team was balanced. In Guild Wars 2, where the game balance is weaker, almost everybody plays either a glass cannon or a bunker.

Being constantly afraid of being killed out of nowhere disencourages people to run solo in WvWvW. Stealth, combined with so powerful sudden attack which can down you, is one the reasons why many WvWvW players like to move in large groups. To be less afraid. Thus the lack of counters to stealth and abundance of stealth affects things much deeper. It is one of the reasons for zerging. If you want to people to do more small scale roaming in WvWvW, you need to deal with stealth and I am afraid some traps are not gonna fix this issue.

Stealth is of course not related to thieves only. I know very well you can trigger stealth from smoke combo fields, mesmers also got stealth and engineers got random 4 sec stealth from toss Elixir S (60 s cooldown) and so on.

Ele=aoe bad for thief
Necr=aoe bad for thief
Guard=cc and block and burn bad for thief
War=100b and cc bad for thief
Rang=evades and bow can hit with in stealth(something like 100b with arrows)
Mes=burst, cones,confusion,shatter
Engeer=block,conustion,aoe,blind

Tell you truth all class have way countering a thief, depending on your play style and class you maybe cant do good vs thief but kick kitten vs another class…there is ways to kill thief even if its 1vs1 ive seen it and its not hard….

Evilek.5690:

Ommu.1649:

Thieves are the biggest problem in WvW right now. Still way overpowered 1v1, so everyone joins the zerg. There is hardly any small group action anymore because anybody that leaves the blob gets facerolled by thieves.

Easy to fix.
*First time make lvl80
*Secondly buy exotic gear (no pony Berserker)
*Thirdly learn to play your class and know your enemy
*Fourth use 1v1 build no “zerg zombie build”

I don’t know about your server, but your “fix” has very little relevance in EU tier #1, because most enemy thieves run in pairs. You can easily survive one thief trying to gank you, but two good thieves can cause trouble even for experienced bunkers. I have also seen a lot of mesmer + thief duos. Or 2x thief + guardian/warrior etc. roamers.

Like many others have suggested in this thread, a solo roamer should ideally have some thoughness (or be mesmer or thief ;-) ), stun break and so on. But most stun breaks have very long cooldowns e.g. 60 seconds. The only exception is – of course – mesmer and thief, who has superb set of stun break skills e.g. stun break using sword #2, mere 3 initiative cost, cures a condition and is infinite range teleport.

For your information I do solo roaming in busy prime time, tier #1. And I have the guts to play without the use any stealth or easy escape mechanisms. I have won even 1 vs 2 thieves fights, but that has been only when those thieves have been playing really bad and gotten overconfident e.g clump together next to each other so that one attack from me can hit both thieves and thinking that they got an easy stomp. Some of the really good thief players are very defensive actually and dodge like no tomorrow. These are by hardest to kill and win. Sometimes not possible even when you have 3 vs that 1 thief.

But facts remain: Stealth and teleportation are both broken game mechanisms, lacking hard counters. Thieves enjoy unfair advantage to reset the fight anytime they want e.g. if their gank fails, they can just shadowstep to safety and try again or pick another fight. This allows them to run such glass cannon build, which is not viable for other professions (except for mesmer, which is another broken profession, just look at spvp, a freaking thief and mesmer fest).

And many people are afraid to run alone or in small groups because of this kind of treat. Thus is one of the major reasons for zerging. Do you want less zerging? Fix this problem, don’t suggest fixes which are not working.

Don’t you notice how the thieves have double morale?
They tell “learn to play… you should have at least 22k health and 3k armor” etc. or you deserve to die. Yet at the same 99% of thieves are doing fine with much less health and armor and they don’t know how all the other 7 professions work.

This game is already over 8 months old and it truly amazes me that the developers haven’t addressed this problem, which has generated more complaints than anything else!

Sceinna.3561:

because the new meta is d/p..

In my tier, in WvW, it’s S/D. Get 3 or 4 S/D thieves working together(as they so often do in my tier) and they are pretty much unstoppable.

^^
I don’t get it. Poster above openly admits he can easily survive against 1 thief, but wants to be able to tackle a team of thieves.
The biggest whine I see in this thread is that some people can’t deal with the fact that a thief might actually get away.
Are people really so upset about losing a badge? You still won the fight if the other player had to run.

Jacklo,

Thing is surviving a thief attack in most cases is temporary. If a good thief jumps you and survive their initial assault, they disengage, reset, and repeat in a relatively short time. Most thieves can slowly wear down someone by hit and run without ever really risking death even when faced by multiple opponents.

Jacklo.4230:

I don’t get it. The poster above openly admits that he can easily survive against one thief, but wants to be able to tackle a team of thieves. The most common complaint in this thread is that some people can’t deal with the fact that a thief might actually get away.

Are people really so upset about losing a badge? You still won the fight if the other player had to run.

I guess I have to copy this into every thread.

This argument in a world vs. world context makes no sense whatsoever.

Basically what you’re saying is that if a thief wins, I have broken armor and must return to spawn and run back to my objective.

If I win, the thief survives and runs and/or teleports 2000+ range away to get out of sight and continues about his business.

“Balanced!”

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Jacklo,

Thing is surviving a thief attack in most cases is temporary. If a good thief jumps you and survive their initial assault, they disengage, reset, and repeat in a relatively short time. Most thieves can slowly wear down someone by hit and run without ever really risking death even when faced by multiple opponents.

I play pure WvW, nothing else.
Yes, I have seen the type of thief that you describe, but they’re not anywhere as prevalent as some people in these nerf threads would have you believe.
I’m an aging MMO relic with the reactions of a sloth, yet even I have very few problems.

The whole issue is really blown out of proportion and seriously, the thief population in WvW has dropped considerably over recent weeks/months with people switching to Ele’s and Mesmers for their kicks now.

EDIT: applies to post above as well.
Don’t you have the same problems catching mesmers or other classes? I can’t even keep up with some warriors. Then we have those who Alt F4 or jump off a cliff.

Keep it in perspective please.

Deniara Devious.3948:

This game is already over 8 months old and it truly amazes me that the developers haven’t addressed this problem, which has generated more complaints than anything else!

Tell me what you want from developers ? Problem will probably not be in the game itself but in your skill.

Thieves are the biggest joke in the game right now, People really need to L2P if they can’t beat a thief 1v1 100% of the time.

Jacklo.4230:

I play pure WvW, nothing else.
Yes, I have seen the type of thief that you describe, but they’re not anywhere as prevalent as some people in these nerf threads would have you believe.
Keep it in perspective please.

That’s just it isn’t it? A matter of perspective? You say you haven’t seen as many as I describe, yet I see them all the time. Spent a good hour before I logged last night dealing with about 5 of them in fact.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Jacklo.4230:

I play pure WvW, nothing else.
Yes, I have seen the type of thief that you describe, but they’re not anywhere as prevalent as some people in these nerf threads would have you believe.
Keep it in perspective please.

That’s just it isn’t it? A matter of perspective? You say you haven’t seen as many as I describe, yet I see them all the time. Spent a good hour before I logged last night dealing with about 5 of them in fact.

I generally play in a small 5-10 man guild group roaming the borderlands in T3/T4.
I’ve played against many different servers and can honestly say that we rarely encounter thieves that are anything more than an annoyance.
If I said it happens once or twice every night in a 6-8 hour play session, I would be exaggerating.

Sorry if your mileage varies, I can’t account for that.
What tier do you play, out of interest?

Jacklo.4230:

^^
I don’t get it. Poster above openly admits he can easily survive against 1 thief, but wants to be able to tackle a team of thieves.
The biggest whine I see in this thread is that some people can’t deal with the fact that a thief might actually get away.
Are people really so upset about losing a badge? You still won the fight if the other player had to run.

I do not believe you were talking to me but some of it does apply.

It is not being able to take on allot of thieves, though they can take on many other players with little risk, something other classes can’t do without a full commitment to the battle. So it is already one sided, but that is besides the point. If they took off like other classes do that is fine, but what they do is stealth enough for them to be in good shape again and start the fight all over again.

Excalibur.9748:

Thieves are the biggest joke in the game right now, People really need to L2P if they can’t beat a thief 1v1 100% of the time.

You see, being able to take on a thief is not a problem, I can out play most of them in a fight, the problem is them being able to take off and reset the fight when ever they like as often as they like until they wear you down or you slip up. I see the L2P far to often when I am the one winning the fights that I have problems with, it’s the thieves that need to L2P and stop having to reset the fight 12 times before they can get the upper hand.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Jacklo.4230:

I play pure WvW, nothing else.
Yes, I have seen the type of thief that you describe, but they’re not anywhere as prevalent as some people in these nerf threads would have you believe.
Keep it in perspective please.

That’s just it isn’t it? A matter of perspective? You say you haven’t seen as many as I describe, yet I see them all the time. Spent a good hour before I logged last night dealing with about 5 of them in fact.

I see them all the time, as a matter of fact if I see someone solo 8 or so times out of 10 its a thief, and as of late there are even a few teams 3-5 all thieves running together.

I like solo or really small team roaming, and with all the stealth if you want to roam, the only real way is to roll a thief, which I have already started, mostly to learn the play style to be able to counter better, and the more and more I played it I could not help but laugh at the dmg and amount of stealth.

selan.8354:

ok i feel like this whole nerf this nerf that thing is going too far. why do u guys only want anet to nerf EVERY viable build and skill. how about we buff other classes instead of nerfing? the whole confusion nerf destroyed a ton of mesmer builds, now everyone has to regear and go to power builds. what if anet would have buffed the cleansing tools or would have added a condition removal for certain sigils or signets?

yes, thieves can get annoying and a pain to fight, but i do not agree on nerfing them as we already know they will get a massive hit with those new traps.
anet could add also a few new effects, that maybe reflect a critical hit once or something. nerfing everything will only lead to classes becoming boring and builds will become not viable anymore which i think is horrible.

Amen to that. As a Mesmer, my sympathy goes out to thieves. Course they never had a core class condition cut by 50%. If Anet’s not careful they’ll lose players to all these senseless class nerfs. Make buffs, not Nerf.

DeWolfe.2174:

^that is laughably the worst comparison I’ve seen. As if those two skills have any relevance and good use of putting boons on the Warrior too.

no kidding, then again, it doesn’t take high IQ to play the thief class

Excalibur.9748:

Thieves are the biggest joke in the game right now, People really need to L2P if they can’t beat a thief 1v1 100% of the time.

Seems like 99% of Aurora Glade, Riverside, Far Shiverpeaks and Millers need to L2P because of my thief. Yet same time it seems that I need to L2P as well. Interesting!

rchu.8945:

DeWolfe.2174:

^that is laughably the worst comparison I’ve seen. As if those two skills have any relevance and good use of putting boons on the Warrior too.

no kidding, then again, it doesn’t take high IQ to play the thief class

I resent that but at the same time have to respect the truth in it I’ve seen so many thieves do bad things because they can get away with it lately since the stealth reveal was reverted.

I agree that thieves need a nerf: as of right now they are way too much of a profit in WvW. WvW is supposed to be a money sink, but with thieves being so easy to kill it makes WvW an excellent money making spot.

Could we please have the OP rename the thread. I welcome the fact that thieves come to join in conversation, but lets put a stop to shouting “stop nerfs”. The last few pages were mostly about how stealth allows a thief to reset a fight, or just opt out without taking risk. I think most people in this thread agree that thieves don’t need a nerf, but a rework of stealth might be necessary. I wouldn’t mind if a thief could just make a run for it if their options were to either burn a 90-120 sec cooldown, or at least without the option to reset the fight endlessly.

Edit: Just disregard the post above me

Jacklo.4230:

Sorry if your mileage varies, I can’t account for that.

You don’t have to apologize and I never expected you to account for anything. You said in your previous post “get some perspective.” My point was your perspective is going to be different than mine and others because we play on different servers at different times. You tell people to get perspective while assuming they have the same experience in WvW as you.

And I’m in Tier 5. I mainly solo/small group(no more than 5) roam on my Engie or Ranger.

Jacklo.4230:

^^
I don’t get it. Poster above openly admits he can easily survive against 1 thief, but wants to be able to tackle a team of thieves.
The biggest whine I see in this thread is that some people can’t deal with the fact that a thief might actually get away.
Are people really so upset about losing a badge? You still won the fight if the other player had to run.

If you are in full health and have good thoughness, surviving against one bad thief who spams heartseekers in a row or is slow in landing his C&D + steal + BS or tactical strike + flanking strike + larcenous combo is not that difficult. But to win a good thief is very difficult indeed as he can basically always get away unless he makes couple of mistakes in a row. Basically you only get them like I wrote: when they are getting overconfident and overly aggressive, in other words: playing badly. Low risk, high reward profession.

And since thieves often run in groups, I know for certainly that a lot of people are worried to run alone in WvWvW or even in small groups. In fact I was talking about this in teamspeak and people agreed.

Deniara Devious.3948:

And since thieves run in groups, I know for certainly that a lot of people are worried to run alone in WvWvW or even in small groups. In fact I was talking about this in teamspeak and people agreed. Thus we see a lot of zerging.

Probably not what you meant, but I doubt thieves were the cause for forming zergs. Or do you just want them to get overconfident?