Guild Wars 2

No you won’t night…ill be camping by waiting to jump you guys! Muahahahahhaha

i’d love to know which kittentard had the bright idea of putting a pve goal in the PVP, yes PVP map? it makes no sense and allows camper to gain kills easily.

I’m sure it’s been mentioned before but go in the morning if you can. We had a bunch of people there yesterday morning (and yes, I’m on Tarnished Coast) and almost everyone was getting along, both at the flag and the chest.

We did have about 6-7 people stationed up at the chest, but it was only to keep people playing nice. None of us felt a need to attack anybody and there were plenty of waves and such.

It’s too bad you can’t play Belcher’s Bluff against people from other worlds. That guy from Fort Aspenwood really wanted to join in.

Wayshuba.5912:

And before devs respond with “you don’t have to go there to get the 16 achievements” remember that you just added achievement rewards which makes all achievement points valuable now.

They already responded with that response (and rightly so) and just because something has value does not FORCE you (or anyone) to pursue it. Players SHOULD have to work to earn some of these achievements as the “participation” trophies are certainly in abundance in this game…..

Aye the best time to do it is, is after a reset or early in the morning, at least for me it was. Did it after the quick reset last week and managed to get to the kite. Got ganked though when almost to the final chest to get the jumping puzzle achieve. Went yesterday morning and had not problems what so ever. Only had one other player from blackgate jumping along and we just let each other be, although I lost him later on in th puzzle.
Tried before at busy times and it was a pain with the campers. So again I did it on a T1 server. Just either go directly after a reset if possible or I did it around 7:00am central time yesterday without amost a soul in. Although I did hear that some people starting camping at the dark room once I made it to the top of the puzzle.

I know a few folks who are:
a) OCD about attaining PvE achievements
b) Bought the game on the pretense that they would not have to participate in PvP.

Still seems like a bait and switch when PvE achievements have a PvP map in them. (Fortunately for them I just ported them across being a mez; though they were pretty terrified by the idea but equally anxious on missing their achievement.)

I have “mixed emotions” about it. On one hand: It’s in a PvP area, so if you want it you may have to fight for it. On the other: I don’t like to “grief” people for stuff like JP’s, Skill Points, or Vistas as those particular items do not have anything specifically to do with PvP.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The problem is that people can camp one of these spots for however long they want. Check the well in this screenshot for example. How is anyone supposed to climb this thing, while there’s a whole bunch of guilds camping at the top, and throwing every aoe they can down on you?

And as far as I know, there is no other way up there. They should add multiple roads, and they should make it so that stealth from the fountain, cannot be broken simply by getting hit. Because they just need to throw some area effects in the well to break anyone’s stealth, and then they pound them into the dirt. Some of these guilds can keep this up all day.

There is places that you can get stealth before you get to that section and gives you enough time ( if your good at jumping ) to get tot he torch section. Which will allow you to just walk right by them and they will never know you were there.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Some are like that. I’ve honestly not gotten that vibe from anyone here, though. Not sure where you’re getting that.

Every. Single. Content. Update. There are people saying its the worst ever and everything in it is too hard, make it easier. For the most part Anet has done a good job of ignoring the whiners, but some content has definetly been weakened to much.

One main thing that should still be changed IMO to give it real value, is Legendaries can’t be sold only precursors.

clutchpro.6742:

There is places that you can get stealth before you get to that section and gives you enough time ( if your good at jumping ) to get tot he torch section. Which will allow you to just walk right by them and they will never know you were there.

Which will not help you if the people at the top of the well toss AoE’s on constant basis, because any damage will destealth you.

ChaosWithin.6214:

i’d love to know which kittentard had the bright idea of putting a pve goal in the PVP, yes PVP map? it makes no sense and allows camper to gain kills easily.

Well by the very nature of the goal it isn’t a PvE goal at all.

You have to face the threat of PvP to get it, You may have to fight players to get it, the developers specifically said that “It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP.”, and you have to zone into a PvP enabled zone to complete it.

There is no PvE section of the achievements panel because there are no “PvE Achievements”. There are General and Living world achievements all of which can be gained in multiple areas of the game and some of which (in Living worlds case) that absolutely require PvP like the racing achievements. Only the PvP, WvW, and dungeon achievements are specific to a game type.

In other words this is not a PvE achievement, It was never meant to be a PvE achievement and the devs do not want it to be a PvE achievement. Just like it’s not a PvP achievement or a fractal achievement. You have to go everywhere! That is the whole point to make an achievement that makes people participate in multiple parts of the game to gain it.

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

halcyonzephyr.5628:

To those of you saying that I just want things handed to me because I am lazy and didn’t put in the work for the achievement don’t understand what happened. I finished the JP… I made it to the top. I am within feet of the kite. I put in the work but was denied my reward. How would you all feel if you worked for a week and then the company sent out the paycheck to the wrong address and refused to pay you?

oh we understand exactly

but you dont seem to understand that doing the jp is not the main achievement
the achievement IS TO FIGHT OTHERS, KILL THEM AND DONT DIE YOURSELF!!!
this means you DID NOT put in the required work

it would be like:
you work for a company and your contract of labour says that after you drive to another place and deliver an object to that place and then you would get payed.
and now you drive to that place but you dont bring the object there
and then complain that you dont get payed
LOL
—>
in the jp you managed to do the jumping part but you forgot to to the fighting part and therefor you dont deserve the reward!

and i said it so many times:

GROUP UP IF YOU WANT THE ACHIEVEMENT SO BAD!

and not just a little 3 man group and then complaining again because you got camped by 5 people…
group up with 15 players and do it and stooooop complaining!!

i wish arenanet would always just put sunglasses on and say to all the noobs and people who dont want to do ALL the required work for an achievement:

DEAL WITH IT!

pvp inside a pvp jump puzzle?! say whaaaa?

Orangensaft.7139:

the achievement IS TO FIGHT OTHERS, KILL THEM AND DONT DIE YOURSELF!!!

Exactly where in the achievement does it say to kill x/x players? That is an actual achievement, completely separate from this one. This achievement says pretty specifically that you simply need to get to the kite. There is in no way, anything that specifies you must PvP, because this, as well as the rest of the achievements in this category, are PvE achievements.

In any case, the main point is not even about whether or not you should be PvPing. The whole point is that this achievement gives players a way to grief one another. It is disgusting and incredibly poor design.

Ryuujin.8236:

I know a few folks who are:
a) OCD about attaining PvE achievements
b) Bought the game on the pretense that they would not have to participate in PvP.

Still seems like a bait and switch when PvE achievements have a PvP map in them. (Fortunately for them I just ported them across being a mez; though they were pretty terrified by the idea but equally anxious on missing their achievement.)

a) OCD issues should be taken up with a mental health professional and should have NO bearing on ANet’s design decisions.
b) No pretense involved….they can easily avoid ALL PvP. Nobody is forcing anyone into a PvP zone.
c) NOT a PvE achievement (obviously since you have to enter a PvP zone to achieve it).

When I had to get the weapon cache it took me almost 6 hours of fighting to get it. This time around paired up with different servers took me 10 min.

I found its best to take at least 5 people with you so you don’t get picked on by others. Its also good if nobody initiates a fight even if by accident it can start and all out war.

Putting an PvE achiev in a PvP place, this is wrong and dumb.

Lokki.1092:

Well by the very nature of the goal it isn’t a PvE goal at all.

You have to face the threat of PvP to get it, You may have to fight players to get it, the developers specifically said that “It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP.”, and you have to zone into a PvP enabled zone to complete it.

There is no PvE section of the achievements panel because there are no “PvE Achievements”. There are General and Living world achievements all of which can be gained in multiple areas of the game and some of which (in Living worlds case) that absolutely require PvP like the racing achievements. Only the PvP, WvW, and dungeon achievements are specific to a game type.

In other words this is not a PvE achievement, It was never meant to be a PvE achievement and the devs do not want it to be a PvE achievement. Just like it’s not a PvP achievement or a fractal achievement. You have to go everywhere! That is the whole point to make an achievement that makes people participate in multiple parts of the game to gain it.

This is the best post in this thread (including a couple of my own!). I don’t know where people are getting the idea that this is a PvE achievement, Anet has never said that and there’s surely no such thing as a PvE achievement section in the achievement panel.

I have to say I got lucky I was in tier 1 Na servers… I can’t even get off the spawns.. for few days… lol but I was able to get it on the weekend. The people from the other 2 servers that shows up I guess they also want the kits so they didn’t attack me.

P.S. I was actually waiting for the portal. but they never show up when I was on… lol

aophts.9862:

Putting an PvE achiev in a PvP place, this is wrong and dumb.

they obviously intended it to be a achievement that requires pvp!!!!

but ofc they put it in the living story achievement section otherwise you wouldnt even see it if you dont look through your pvp achievements!

IT IS NO PURE PVE ACHIEVEMENT!!!
so stop using this senslesss agrument
it is a pvp+pve achievement (more pvp than pve)

Dog.1472:

Orangensaft.7139:

the achievement IS TO FIGHT OTHERS, KILL THEM AND DONT DIE YOURSELF!!!

Exactly where in the achievement does it say to kill x/x players? That is an actual achievement, completely separate from this one. This achievement says pretty specifically that you simply need to get to the kite. There is in no way, anything that specifies you must PvP, because this, as well as the rest of the achievements in this category, are PvE achievements.

In any case, the main point is not even about whether or not you should be PvPing. The whole point is that this achievement gives players a way to grief one another. It is disgusting and incredibly poor design.

The fact that it is in the pvp zone is proof that they intended it to require fighting if necessary!!

Griefing is something else
dev statement:

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

he says its good if others kill you and whoever wants the acheivement because its part of the achievement!

dev also stated on the agrument that the camping in the jp would be griefing:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

While I agree with the sentiment that this is WvW and if you don’t want to fight don’t come here, getting their rears handed to them by ‘griefers’ is in no way shape or form going to encourage anyone to stick around and play WvW. Just the opposite I think.

There is definitely some amount of truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that much of what is going on in the JP is griefing, it is more that people unused to WvW are coming into a much deadlier map than they are accustomed to. That is the risk you take.

he states thakittens just all the people who seem to do NEVER ANY PVP and therefor they have a hard time in there … but as stated in the first dev comment i linked they want these people to be killed if these people dont manage to defend themselves they dont deserve the achievement…

clutchpro.6742:

There is places that you can get stealth before you get to that section and gives you enough time ( if your good at jumping ) to get tot he torch section. Which will allow you to just walk right by them and they will never know you were there.

I think you are misunderstanding the problem here. Your stealth will not help one bit. All it takes is for them to place one mark on any of the platforms, and you will lose your stealth as soon as you touch it. If you’ve got a dedicated group of campers just spamming all their attacks at random on platforms you have to touch, then you will not be able to sneak past them.

Orangensaft.7139:

aophts.9862:

Putting an PvE achiev in a PvP place, this is wrong and dumb.

they obviously intended it to be a achievement that requires pvp!!!!

So? It’s still a bad idea that promotes griefing and creates strife within player community. The only thing the fact that “it was intended” tells us is that someone at Anet messed up badly in the design stage.

Orangensaft.7139:

Griefing is something else
dev statement:

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

he says its good if others kill you and whoever wants the acheivement because its part of the achievement!

Yes, precisely. This achievement is only good for griefers. This is a problem.

Astralporing.1957:

Orangensaft.7139:

aophts.9862:

Putting an PvE achiev in a PvP place, this is wrong and dumb.

they obviously intended it to be a achievement that requires pvp!!!!

So? It’s still a bad idea that promotes griefing and creates strife within player community. The only thing the fact that “it was intended” tells us is that someone at Anet messed up badly in the design stage.

Orangensaft.7139:

Griefing is something else
dev statement:

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

he says its good if others kill you and whoever wants the acheivement because its part of the achievement!

Yes, precisely. This achievement is only good for griefers. This is a problem.

your view towards this matter embodies the entitled gamer carebear attitude.

pvp is not the same as griefing. the fact that you are invulnerable on the spawn platform prevents any sort of spawn camping.

if there are people sitting below waiting for you to drop, you can either be good, and kill them, or use your skills to escape, then out run them through the puzzle. notice that in both cases, it requires skills and effort. apparently something entitled gamers lack.

or if you are bad, or dont want to pvp, you can leave and come back later.

Honestly I feel for you guys that want to do this kite but don’t have the guild to successfully uproot the bunkered opponents. It can be frustrating but try calling out in map chat. Understand that the people in that map are there for the specific reason of killing those very people! A few shouts in map that the sanctum is overrun (at peak times) generally means your allies will come flooding in to liberate it. If not have some patience, while it may seem that 1 server always holds the sanctum this is rarely (if ever) true. However when your allies do hold it often it is too late to get into the eternal battlefield and you will sit in endless queue. If instead you fight alongside your team, especially if your team takes the keeps. Then you will have a free ride in the JP.

For the people who don’t want to participate in WvW (PvP) at all, I don’t know what to say to you but that you are being as silly as someone who complains about the cliffside kite because it has PvE in it. If you don’t want to PvP in any form, at all ever, and hate it with a passion and it makes your blood boil in your veins then the answer is simple do not attempt this kite it is set to almost require PvP and this leg of absolutely does require WvW.

I know some of you may feel that you are achievement hunters but I have to wonder do you just ignore the PvP/WvW achievements? Are you an achievement hunter except when it comes to the PvP or WvW achievements? If so then just ignore this one just like you ignore all other PvP achievements that exist now and those that are to come. If not, then you must buckle down and PvP at some point to finish your achievements, so treat this like those just another PvP badge of honor for your collection.

they are 2 achievements not one.

to get complete kites achievement you need www one…

I m luck that my server has quite anice players to let people complete it…..just to say how people consider this thing <.<

The meta kite achievement is a mixed one. It’s not pure PvE it requires just like the legendaries to handle all (most) the aspects of the game : outdoor PvE, jumping puzzles, dungeons (fractals of the mists) and PvP in the Obsidian Sanctum.

A nice way to counter this guys is to send people attack the campers camps and towers or even their keeps. Several at the same time. This would probaly make them Waypoint back to defend their positions and being unable to get to the kite site again unless doing all the JP again.
If you are trying to do the JP alone and encounter some of them camping the site, try to contact some guild members or allies to help u with this task

Astralporing.1957:

they obviously intended it to be a achievement that requires pvp!!!! So? It’s still a bad idea that promotes griefing and creates strife within player community. The only thing the fact that “it was intended” tells us is that someone at Anet messed up badly in the design stage.

Once, I agreed with this thinking. However, I no longer do.

ANet is trying to offer things to do for many different types of players. This particular achievement — and the meta achievement it contributes to — are aimed at people that are willing to both PvE and WvW. That’s not bad design, it’s catering to a demographic other than the PvE only folks. Given the sheer amount of achievements that are PvE only, this does not seem unfair. In fact, the total achievements aimed at PvE-only players is quite a bit higher than those aimed at groups that dislike PvE.

By the way, I still think there should be a meta achievement for exploring all of WvW, and one for exploring all of Tyria — both of which are required for the Gift of Exploration.

Still doing EB JP every day no problem, even with people camping the entrance and other areas in the JP.

Shoutout to all you fellow can-do attitude gamers! We’ll earn our trophies, thank you. =)

brunobyof.3541:

A nice way to counter this guys is to send people attack the campers camps and towers or even their keeps. Several at the same time. This would probaly make them Waypoint back to defend their positions and being unable to get to the kite site again unless doing all the JP again.

Too bad that the campers are usually from the servers that are losing at the moment. The normal PvP players that would care about their server losing are not a problem – especially since they usually let PvErs through if they behave. The real problem – the griefers – do not care. In fact, when their servers are losing there are usually way more of them inside than when they are winning. Which is understandable, since what they look for is not competition or challenge.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ANet is trying to offer things to do for many different types of players. This particular achievement — and the meta achievement it contributes to — are aimed at people that are willing to both PvE and WvW. That’s not bad design, it’s catering to a demographic other than the PvE only folks.

It is very likely that’s what Anet wants to do. Trying to achieve that by advertising the worst sides of WvW, however, is definitely not a good idea.

If you want to persuade people that WvW is an interesting place to be, one where you’d want to return, you don’t do this by asking griefers to organize a welcome comitee.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Astralporing.1957:

they obviously intended it to be a achievement that requires pvp!!!! So? It’s still a bad idea that promotes griefing and creates strife within player community. The only thing the fact that “it was intended” tells us is that someone at Anet messed up badly in the design stage.

Once, I agreed with this thinking. However, I no longer do.

ANet is trying to offer things to do for many different types of players. This particular achievement — and the meta achievement it contributes to — are aimed at people that are willing to both PvE and WvW. That’s not bad design, it’s catering to a demographic other than the PvE only folks. Given the sheer amount of achievements that are PvE only, this does not seem unfair. In fact, the total achievements aimed at PvE-only players is quite a bit higher than those aimed at groups that dislike PvE.

By the way, I still think there should be a meta achievement for exploring all of WvW, and one for exploring all of Tyria — both of which are required for the Gift of Exploration.

The problem though is that this achievement is necessary to get 100% completion on this event, and for some players getting 100% on a temporary event is a huge thing (I didn’t 100% Flame and Frost and I get it rubbed in my face everyday by the achievement panel), especially since it gives a prize you’ll never be able to obtain after the event it done.

It’s basically locking content behind a wall.

Vyniea.2054:

The problem though is that this achievement is necessary to get 100% completion on this event, and for some players getting 100% on a temporary event is a huge thing (I didn’t 100% Flame and Frost and I get it rubbed in my face everyday by the achievement panel), especially since it gives a prize you’ll never be able to obtain after the event it done.

It’s basically locking content behind a wall.

It is necessary to PvP to get 100% you are correct.

If you are unwilling to PvP you are unwilling to get 100% Every event thus far has had some Player versus player content all the way back to the Halloween event. It hasn’t changed since then, and it looks to not be changing at all anytime soon. You will have to get used to the idea that 100% means having to engage in PvP in some form or another.

The content isn’t locked behind a wall it’s through a wide open door called PvP just step through we are not all that bad. Heck if you are on my server I will fight off “griefers” by your side.

Of course if you are not on my server I will hold the puzzle for as long as I can to help my allies No hard feelings but I will kill you.

Edit

If you didn’t know. You do not need to do This event or any of the PvP to get enough achievements to get the reward. There are more achievements than you need they did that on purpose for people who don’t want to do JPs or PvP or whatever else you may not like. You only need 16 so take heart that if you absolutely cannot stomach the PvP you can still get your prize.

Hmm. Interesting how the actual argument gets ignored time and time again by people jumping in the thread and not reading anything that came before.

I see a lot of people in this thread saying things like “this killed what little interest I may have had in WvW.” I have to make a correction, you didn’t have an interest in WvW to begin with. The people who enter Obsidian Sanctum for the first time or second time during a living story event don’t come there to experience WvW, they’re there to get an achievement. Zerging is a very different experience compared to doing a jumping puzzle or getting ganked by a group. If you really want to experience WvW go play in EBG or your own border where you help the server succeed. That’s how I got into WvW and you should too.

XacTactX.6709:

I see a lot of people in this thread saying things like “this killed what little interest I may have had in WvW.” I have to make a correction, you didn’t have an interest in WvW to begin with. The people who enter Obsidian Sanctum for the first time or second time during a living story event don’t come there to experience WvW, they’re there to get an achievement. Zerging is a very different experience compared to doing a jumping puzzle or getting ganked by a group. If you really want to experience WvW go play in EBG or your own border where you help the server succeed. That’s how I got into WvW and you should too.

Just because they didn’t play much WvW before does not mean they had no interest in it. It just means they were more interested in the other facets of the game. Their statement of “this killed what little interest I may have had” is still valid. Those were still potential WvWers. Were being the operative term.

If the goal was to get people interested in WvW, then it was a hardcore fail. If it wasn’t, then the real question is what was the goal of placing it there?

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

~snip~

It is very likely that’s what Anet wants to do. Trying to achieve that by advertising the worst sides of WvW, however, is definitely not a good idea.

If you want to persuade people that WvW is an interesting place to be, one where you’d want to return, you don’t do this by asking griefers to organize a welcome committee.

I agree that this is not the way to introduce people to WvW. If ANet thinks so, they need to hire a psychologist. In fact, I said that earlier in this thread.

However, that’s not what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about ANet attempting to cater to different play-styles. Some players like both PvE and PvP. This particular meta-achievement is aimed at them. The Aetherblade retreat was aimed at players who like twitch game-play in dungeons. It was not aimed at everyone. Neither is Learning to Kite — although players outside the likes-PvE-and-WvW group can participate more readily than I could get all the achievements in AR.

No content update is going to be ideal for every demographic. However, ANet has been providing variety to try to ensure that different groups get something that’s right up their alley. It’s too bad that this one achievement does not work for everyone. However, it has worked for some.

Vyniea.2054:

IndigoSundown.5419:

~snip~

The problem though is that this achievement is necessary to get 100% completion on this event, and for some players getting 100% on a temporary event is a huge thing (I didn’t 100% Flame and Frost and I get it rubbed in my face everyday by the achievement panel), especially since it gives a prize you’ll never be able to obtain after the event it done.

It’s basically locking content behind a wall.

No, it’s locking content behind a requirement. Without requirements, what’s the point of achievements? People who can’t/won’t jump won’t be getting 100% completion. People who couldn’t complete AR did not 100% the Sky Pirates update.

ANet has to take all players into account when designing their updates. they cannot only cater to a limited demographic. If players are 100%ers, they would be best served to embrace every aspect of the game.

Now, if players attempt a PvP solution to the problem, and cannot because the map design means there is no effective counter to players holding choke points, then that should be addressed on the map design level. But that’s a different issue than refusing to embrace the game mode.

Brother Grimm.5176:

There is a BIG difference between NEEDING something and WANTING something. Our entire world would be a LOT healthier if more people understood this.

And our world would be better if people knew that the difference is not so clear nor so simple.

What do we need, really? Yes, we need food. But how much do we really need and what kind of food? Do we need good dental care (not treated as necessary in some healthcare systems in the developed world)? Do we need to play Guild Wars 2? If we don’t need to play Guild Wars 2, does that mean we’re not entitled to getting good content from the devs?

Again, the problem with OS is how easy it is to camp. The PvP boils down to “be there first, vastly outnumber them, or hope that they don’t know how to abuse the chokes”.

If it wasn’t so easy for people to kill 10+ enemies with the group of 5 campers in the well, or hold people forever in the arena by hitting them once while they’re climbing, we wouldn’t see so many long winded threads complaining about this.

My suggestion? Making the puzzle less linear would go a long way in allowing for real counter-play by making it harder to hold every route to the top. I doubt arenanet will do it though.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m talking about ANet attempting to cater to different play-styles. Some players like both PvE and PvP. This particular meta-achievement is aimed at them.

No. It is not. It caters specifically to griefers – the one group of players whose needs should never be supported in GW2.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m talking about ANet attempting to cater to different play-styles. Some players like both PvE and PvP. This particular meta-achievement is aimed at them.

No. It is not. It caters specifically to griefers – the one group of players whose needs should never be supported in GW2.

NOONE is griefing in the jumping puzzle

NOONE kills enemies to farm badges there

EVERYONE kills enemies BECAUSE OF THE FUN to see all the people failing just because you can stop them
NOTHING would change if Arenanet changed removed the loot for killing players in the jumping puzzle

so stop talking about griefers and griefing everywhere!!!

it is about the fun of killing others because you are better than they are or because you chose a good point to camp that makes up any differences in numbers in case there are more enemies

Guild Wars 2 is made up of several different types of play (PvE, PvP, WvW). The achievements fall into these different types of play. Completing all of the achievements requires all of these different types of play. Completing all of the achievements is not required to complete the Meta achievement.

If you don’t like WvW, don’t try to get the WvW achievement. It is not required to get the Meta.

The threat of enemy players wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt for the temporary time limit, and the server bias. Its not so bad if you are on the dominant server, but what about when either the JP is always 99% one enemy server, or the possibility of not even being able to enter. I managed to grab the kite when my server owned all 3 garrisons, thus ensuring my safety. But if we could hold those for the rest of the time (ive seen it happen) then peopel are out of luck.

Astral Projections.7320:

The thing is, this game was specifically advertised and sold on the promise to PvE players that this was a game based on cooperation. No griefing would be allowed. In PvE every time someone tries to grief others, that is removed.

As an example,while the game was in beta, Mesmer portals would transport people if they went on the portal or if the portal was placed on them. You didn’t have to hit the F key to use it. Mesmers were using the portal to block the exit from Hoelbrak to the noob area. The new people would run up to the Asuran portal, hit a Mesmer portal and be ported away. I saw a couple of Mesmers who were amusing themselves by doing this. They were also targeting people who were af’k and porting them around. In response ANet made it so you had to agree to be ported.

In PvE ANet makes every effort to stop griefing and that’s what PvE players expect.

Now, all of a sudden. PvE players who want to continue the Living Story (which is PvE, not PvP) achievements are told to go to an area where other players are deliberately stopping them from getting the achievement. To them, it feels like ANet has broken their promise of cooperation and no griefing for PvEers. Yes, I know this is a PvP area and PvP happens in a PvP area. That’s not the point. The point is if you are a PvEer, doing PvE content (which was promised and advertised as no griefing) it shouldn’t be in an area that accepts griefing as a normal game play.

excellent point, which has been made in each instance of achievements for pve content requiring pvp/wvw participation. this is the initial reason the achievements for dailies and, specifically, monthlies, were split apart into pve/pvp achievements. further, if you will all remember, the first few months we had monthlies, many people were frustrated and flat-out refused to pursue the monthlies because pvp content was required to receive them. the monthlies have been changed so that you can now choose elements that do not require pvp activity.

the argument then was the same it is now — IT’S NOT REQUIRED TO PLAY THE GAME.

but it does go counter to a couple of things we were promised, among them 1) play your way (i like achievements! i will work to get as many as i can that are not pvp-related) and 2) work with a spirit of cooperation, not competition, in pve.

a situation has been created where folk like me, who like to receive achievements, and do WORK to achieve them, must either 1) endure endless player griefing or 2) accept that the achievement for THAT [kite/whatever] AND the meta will not be obtained.

in my opinion, this violates the two premises listed above, promotes player griefing, and causes untold frustration.

now, for the record? i HAVE obtained both of the obsidian sanctum jp achievements. the first one, i was fortunate enough to finally get in at a time when the three servers were at truce and a mesmer was porting. i’d attempted the puzzle for over an hour, previously, with constant griefing. the second time? found a semi-truce state, no mesmer, so i ran my mesmer through this with occasional activity from other players. this wasn’t a big deal … but after i had the achievement, and had my mesmer parked? a group from another server who’d been parked on top of the dome came down and wiped the floor with my mesmer.

pvp bunny here, guys. many of us are. why is it fun to “challenge” yourself against us? you know, the achievements are going to bring us out in droves. and you find it sporting, and challenging, to collect these “honor” kills?

this is an issue that’s been asked about a lot. to date, i’ve still seen no respone.

Frankly, PvE players don’t have a reason to gripe. The PvP players have to do PvE in order to get the Meta while PvE players have the option to avoid PvP altogether to get the Meta.

If you want ALL of the achievements then you need to participate in ALL aspects of the game. Simple as that.

Orangensaft.7139:

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m talking about ANet attempting to cater to different play-styles. Some players like both PvE and PvP. This particular meta-achievement is aimed at them.

No. It is not. It caters specifically to griefers – the one group of players whose needs should never be supported in GW2.

NOONE is griefing in the jumping puzzle

NOONE kills enemies to farm badges there

EVERYONE kills enemies BECAUSE OF THE FUN to see all the people failing just because you can stop them
NOTHING would change if Arenanet changed removed the loot for killing players in the jumping puzzle

so stop talking about griefers and griefing everywhere!!!

it is about the fun of killing others because you are better than they are or because you chose a good point to camp that makes up any differences in numbers in case there are more enemies

this makes my point better than i ever could. what you call “fun” — “because you are better than they are” is what we call griefing. not gonna argue semantics, though. you’re the player who sees this achievement, and says with glee, “oh, yeah! lots of little pvp players who don’t play pvp and so suck at it are gonna come through! GREAT time to go have fun dominating them!”

what’s sad is, if you came over into our world, you would be the one asking questions, and we’d be the ones offering the help, the answers, asking you, “can i help you?”

it’s the difference in mindsets that i’m attempting to point out, and also to point out, this type of achievement fosters one type of mindset more than it does the other.

The problem though is that this achievement is necessary to get 100% completion on this event, and for some players getting 100% on a temporary event is a huge thing

I’m sorry, but I really hate hearing this kind of entitled stuff. You want the 100%? Go DO the 100%. Don’t sit here posting on the boards about how it’s just such a big deal to get 100% and you want that 100%, but it’s not fair that one part is too hard, or one part is doing something you don’t like.

I keep hearing all these “hardcore completionists” and such posting about how they just HAVE TO HAVE that 100% or else their life isn’t complete, but at the same time it’s not a big enough deal to put their big boy pants on and put some effort into it, they want it handed to them.

what’s sad is, if you came over into our world, you would be the one asking questions, and we’d be the ones offering the help, the answers, asking you, “can i help you?”

Actually, no. Why? Because most PvPers already have to do a lot of PvE anyway, since that’s how the game is designed. (Runes of the Monk, please)

That and the PvE in this game just isn’t very involved. Sorry, it really just isn’t. That’s not a slam on anyone that likes PvE, it’s just an objective fact. There’s not much to it.

it’s the difference in mindsets that i’m attempting to point out, and also to point out, this type of achievement fosters one type of mindset more than it does the other.

The difference in mindsets here is that some people want to get everything, but don’t want to do everything. It’s just an entitlement mindset, unfortunately. There are several things I want in game that involve doing things I don’t like, too. I won’t go asking for them to be changed, or asking for an easier path, because that’s just not how I look at things, I guess.

Anet has already made their stance on this abundantly clear. It is 100% intended to have the PvP be a part of the JP to add another dimension to the challenge.

Of course some of us don’t like it and some of us do like it.

Arguing that you are a completionist and do not want to PvP is a non-argument. You are either a completionist through and through and will do this despite that you do not like it, or you’re not a completionist.

That said, I am unhappy that they have both this JP (and 3 others) in addition to world completion in WvWvW. I want to focus on one or the other. It has made me really hate WvWvW with a passion now. I went once before and had a fun time, but have been going more to get world completion finally and have had nothing short of misery. This strategy is not good at getting more people to try out WvWvW, as it is merely scaring would be PvPers away.

I really love the design of this jumping puzzle, and would like to play it more often, but I won’t because of the PvP. Hopefully, one day, they may add a PvE equivalent.

Bovinity.8610:

That and the PvE in this game just isn’t very involved. Sorry, it really just isn’t. That’s not a slam on anyone that likes PvE, it’s just an objective fact. There’s not much to it.

Although the PvE could be better in some ways, this is clearly a subjective opinion. Stating that it is a fact does not make it so.

If you want to be objective, you need to use objective terminology and be much more specific, you need to provide evidence of the specific details and you need to address your bias.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m talking about ANet attempting to cater to different play-styles. Some players like both PvE and PvP. This particular meta-achievement is aimed at them.

No. It is not. It caters specifically to griefers – the one group of players whose needs should never be supported in GW2.

No. People are complaining about players killing players in a PvP map. How is that griefing when player killing player is the central design feature of WvW?

Some people like fighting in/over the OS JP. Some people enjoy the challenge inherent in removing obstacles to completing the puzzle and/or achievement. Some people enjoy rallying support for an effort to take and hold the puzzle for their server. I’m not one of them. However, I’m not going to sit here and say their wants can’t be catered to because some players want to be completionists but don’t want to embrace the whole game.

Could ANet refrain from putting LS achievements in WvW? Absolutely. However, those who prefer WvW to PvE already get fewer achievement opportunities. They still need to go into PvE to get the meta-achievement. PvEers don’t need to go into WvW to do so. So who exactly is disadvantaged?