Guild Wars 2

Looking forward to the fractal, so I hope this will be the one that gets most votes.

Katran.9186:

Another asuran ka-boom.

From self harmonizing crystals mined directly beneath our first missions in Prophecies
They predated Humans entirely… There’s things beneath Ascalon that predate even the charr and ogres there … things the size of dragons. There’s also a portal to the Rift. The gods came from the Rift … and they returned to it.

Where are your gods now?

Grimwolf.7163:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Nor does anyone care.
New does not equal interesting. Old and cool beats new and dull any day.

Your statement is False. Because I care what happened there
so speak for Yourselve please.

I would love to have an interactive story (similar to our personal story or a living story) that reveals and allows us to experience all of this lore (Abaddon and Thaumanova) firsthand…but not as a fractal where I need to experience it with other people if I want to experience it at all. Make fractals solo-friendly, or make this lore available outside fractals for solo-content only players.

This entire thing just disappoints me.
I vote for: Lore Content Via Soloable Instances
Not: Required Group Play To Experience Lore Content

I’m sure that the events concerning the Thaumanova Reactor would reveal much more than the fall of Abaddon.

StinVec.3621:

I would love to have an interactive story (similar to our personal story or a living story) that reveals and allows us to experience all of this lore (Abaddon and Thaumanova) firsthand…but not as a fractal where I need to experience it with other people if I want to experience it at all. Make fractals solo-friendly, or make this lore available outside fractals for solo-content only players.

This entire thing just disappoints me.
I vote for: Lore Content Via Soloable Instances
Not: Required Group Play To Experience Lore Content

I’m sorry, but this is an MMO.

If everything in the game was single-player content this game would die fast. The most fun I (and I imagine the majority of players though I’m open to stats on this) have in this game is playing with my friends.

Solo content lacks the excitement and wonder of exploring something together which is the unique feature MMOs provide. If you want solo content there are a vast number of single player RPGs that will cater to your tastes, but let’s keep MMOs multiplayer!

I’m not opposed to there being some solo content, but the vast majority of endgame content needs to be multiplayer for the health of the game.

Dungeons, fracs, guild missions, WvW – people play all of these together, over and over. Personal story you do once and forget about it.

I don’t mean to come across as antagonistic so apologies if the tone is harsh, it’s not meant to be. Out of interest why would you play this game at all if you don’t like playing with other people? Surely you can’t just endlessly do world completion and personal story..? Haven’t you ever met other people you like to play with?

Hyung.6140:

StinVec.3621:

I would love to have an interactive story (similar to our personal story or a living story) that reveals and allows us to experience all of this lore (Abaddon and Thaumanova) firsthand…but not as a fractal where I need to experience it with other people if I want to experience it at all. Make fractals solo-friendly, or make this lore available outside fractals for solo-content only players.

This entire thing just disappoints me.
I vote for: Lore Content Via Soloable Instances
Not: Required Group Play To Experience Lore Content

I’m sorry, but this is an MMO.

If everything in the game was single-player content this game would die fast. The most fun I (and I imagine the majority of players though I’m open to stats on this) have in this game is playing with my friends.

Solo content lacks the excitement and wonder of exploring something together which is the unique feature MMOs provide. If you want solo content there are a vast number of single player RPGs that will cater to your tastes, but let’s keep MMOs multiplayer!

I’m not opposed to there being some solo content, but the vast majority of endgame content needs to be multiplayer for the health of the game.

Dungeons, fracs, guild missions, WvW – people play all of these together, over and over. Personal story you do once and forget about it.

I don’t mean to come across as antagonistic so apologies if the tone is harsh, it’s not meant to be. Out of interest why would you play this game at all if you don’t like playing with other people? Surely you can’t just endlessly do world completion and personal story..? Haven’t you ever met other people you like to play with?

I did not request it to be made into only solo content. I requested that it be made solo-friendly. You can have your group content as well. If I found dungeons to be fun in this game I’d be doing them…I love dungeons in many MMOS, but they’re terrible in GW2, in my opinion. I just request that this lore related content should also be just as available to those not interested in sharing their adventures and experiences with other people as to those who enjoy group content.

StinVec.3621:

I did not request it to be made into only solo content. I requested that it be made solo-friendly. You can have your group content as well. If I found dungeons to be fun in this game I’d be doing them…I love dungeons in many MMOS, but they’re terrible in GW2, in my opinion. I just request that this lore related content should also be just as available to those not interested in sharing their adventures and experiences with other people as to those who enjoy group content.

… but pretty much -everything- is lore-related content. If I run CoF I’m seeing the lore of the Flame Legion, etc etc. They can’t make a single player version of everything they make, and how else would they make lore-related content solo friendly?

Not to mention that if they somehow did add solo content as well you’d still have other group content you’d miss out on, so you’d always have lore related content you’re missing?

I think that if you’re “not interested in sharing adventures… with other people” you might be playing games in the wrong genre and can’t really complain when parts of the game aren’t accessible to you.

Arbitrarily applying the rule to yourself that you won’t play with other people means you miss out on content, unless you’re willing to solo it all. I saw a video the other day of a thief soloing fractals – if you don’t want to play with people then that option is always open to you.

Let’s think another way.
Why these fractals? Why now?
What we had before? Nothing epic or really intresting (In a lore sense)
So, can they have any connection? Source of power? God’s intervention?

Only problem I see with Abaddon fractal is the fact that it is a fractal:

There is a lot of potential for it to be a rushed, underwhelming experience for such an epic event. I’d hate for something like this to be wasted with lackluster content.

Genoss Hazard.7528:

Guild Wars 1 lore > Guild Wars 2 lore By far. I’m tired of Asura they really bore me to death, with their better-than-everyone ego and their smart mouths. NO MORE. Seriously the fall of a GOD and the creation of a desert is far more significant than an Asuran ka-boom. Please Arenanet just take a look at the the original series for inspiration, without it this game would be non existent.

Harumph. Bookah.

VOLKON.1290:

Harumph. Bookah.

May I remind you that the Asura view the human gods as a part of the Eternal Alchemy and scoffing at the opportunity to witness the fall of Abaddon would be contrary to their beliefs?

Hyung.6140:

StinVec.3621:

I did not request it to be made into only solo content. I requested that it be made solo-friendly. You can have your group content as well. If I found dungeons to be fun in this game I’d be doing them…I love dungeons in many MMOS, but they’re terrible in GW2, in my opinion. I just request that this lore related content should also be just as available to those not interested in sharing their adventures and experiences with other people as to those who enjoy group content.

… but pretty much -everything- is lore-related content. If I run CoF I’m seeing the lore of the Flame Legion, etc etc. They can’t make a single player version of everything they make, and how else would they make lore-related content solo friendly?

Not to mention that if they somehow did add solo content as well you’d still have other group content you’d miss out on, so you’d always have lore related content you’re missing?

I think that if you’re “not interested in sharing adventures… with other people” you might be playing games in the wrong genre and can’t really complain when parts of the game aren’t accessible to you.

Arbitrarily applying the rule to yourself that you won’t play with other people means you miss out on content, unless you’re willing to solo it all. I saw a video the other day of a thief soloing fractals – if you don’t want to play with people then that option is always open to you.

Your thinly veiled statement of opinion is actually a personal attack. I will only ask this once. Stop attacking me. I’ve stated my request just as many others have, that fractals (and even dungeons for that matter) scale down for the number of people in the party, even if that party is one person. You have now delved into attacking my views and reasons for playing this game and are now telling me to go play another game. No, I will not. Cease your attacks.

StinVec.3621:

Your thinly veiled statement of opinion is actually a personal attack. I will only ask this once. Stop attacking me. I’ve stated my request just as many others have, that dungeons and fractals scale down for the number of people in the party, even if that party is one person. You have now delved into attacking my views and reasons for playing this game and are now telling me to go play another game. No, I will not. Cease your attacks.

I can assure you it was not intended as a personal attack of any sort.

While I would be very happy to back up everything I said (and perhaps to point out that you may have somewhat overreacted in interpreting a disagreement of opinion as a personal attack) I’m very happy not to continue the discussion as you have requested.

Hope you have fun doing whatever you enjoy and that the rest of your day is lovely.

StinVec.3621:

Your thinly veiled statement of opinion is actually a personal attack. I will only ask this once. Stop attacking me. I’ve stated my request just as many others have, that fractals (and even dungeons for that matter) scale down for the number of people in the party, even if that party is one person. You have now delved into attacking my views and reasons for playing this game and are now telling me to go play another game. No, I will not. Cease your attacks.

Cringe

SpeedFiend.4521:

…the Fall of Abaddon is the single most destructive event in known Tyrian history.

You obviously haven’t been to a kocktail party in Hoelbrak. You’re not even allowed to mention kocktails apparently – notice the deliberate mispelling?

I found really interesting all the hypothesis coming up in this and other threads about the two announced fractals. There are several interesting comments linking GW2 to GW1 and trying to fill some gaps (probably intentional) in the lore.
Here, however, I will try to approach these topic from a different point of view .
(Do not be mad about it! :P I am just trying to bring to the table some different hypothesis).

First of all, as “Fractals” both the episodes (Thaumanova and Abaddon) will probably offer only a glimpse these events. As “Fractals” they need to be relatively short so I do not think any of the two will offer extensive explanations about what happened (I do not expect a “Story Mode dungeon” telling the whole story of Abaddon’s Fall or the disaster in Thaumanova Reactor).

However, about the two stories that will be told… what if both of them relates to the same episode told from different points of view?
The Fall of Abaddon may be the story according to what Humans experienced (and what we saw in GW1, which was centered on Humans mainly); while the Thaumanova Reactor may show what happened “behind the scenes” (part of the lore that was not told during GW1).
It might make sense; in this way, the game will continue to move in the direction the developers want (in terms of Living story and possible future expansions [maybe Elona?]) while giving us players the chance to chose which part of the lore uncover first.

Maybe Asuras did something related to the Fall of Abaddon. The Vortex in Nightfall’s Mouth of Abaddon recalls the Asuran singularity in Portmatt’s Lab (in Bloodtide Coast). Likewise, the “reality twisted inside out” mentioned for Thaumanova may be related to the Real of Torment; its map was a kind of nightmarish/distorted version of a portion of Elona (like the Nightfallen Garden was a distorted version of Seborhin’s Garden).

In this hypothesis, the choice made by the Evon and Kiel may be read in a different way:

Evon -> as a Charr he may remember Humans about the fall of one of their Gods, Abaddon. Behind a bit of Charr pride, Evon maybe want to show that also a God can be corrupted and fall (which may imply, “Humans, move on from your past”).

Kiel -> she may show what was behind the Fall of Abaddon unveiling the events in Thaumanova. Maybe her purpose is to unveil a hidden past (Asuras messing up behind the scenes) showing the existence of a power much more strong that people may think of.

About the eventual connection between the two episodes:
- May the events in Thaumanova have opened (intentionally or not) the path to the Realm of the Gods?
- Is there a connection with Asuras and the old Human Gods? I mean, how was possible that a God (Abaddon) would have been “killed” by mortals?
- Was Abaddon really a God or just someone or something much more powerful than Humans? Maybe a type of Dragon Champion who found a path to Tyria thanks to the disaster in Thaumanova?

Moreover, what will these two choices (Abaddon and Thaumanova) impact the present world? It was mentioned that the present dungeons may be “freshen up”(maybe with the exception of AC which has been already restyled). IT was also said that his process will probably happen according to the Living Story. So, here there is another hypothesis:

- Evon offers the Fall of Abaddon’s Fractal, which means he is focusing his interest in the Human Gods. May this suggest a possible restyling of Arah some time after Evon’s election?

- Kiel offers the Thaumanova Reactor’s Fractal, which means Asuras. May this be connected to a possible restyle of CoE? (Maybe the Inifinity Coil in CoE is the Inquest version of Thaumanova)

Bau Bau.7389:

About the eventual connection between the two episodes:
- May the events in Thaumanova have opened (intentionally or not) the path to the Realm of the Gods?
- Is there a connection with Asuras and the old Human Gods? I mean, how was possible that a God (Abaddon) would have been “killed” by mortals?
- Was Abaddon really a God or just someone or something much more powerful than Humans? Maybe a type of Dragon Champion who found a path to Tyria thanks to the disaster in Thaumanova?

The Fall of Abaddon predates the existence of the reactor by over a thousand years. It predates the Asura going to the surface of Tyria by over a thousand years. There’s no way the reactor influenced the Fall. As for a dragon champion ending up in Tyria because of the reactor… Dragons (and their champions) have also been on Tyria for thousands of years before the reactor was even built.

Mortals with a bit of divine intervention (or without, as the case may be) kill/subdue gods on more than one occasion, so there’s no need for the Asura to be involved.

SpeedFiend.4521:

The Fall of Abaddon predates the existence of the reactor by over a thousand years. It predates the Asura going to the surface of Tyria by over a thousand years. There’s no way the reactor influenced the Fall. As for a dragon champion ending up in Tyria because of the reactor… Dragons (and their champions) have also been on Tyria for thousands of years before the reactor was even built.

That is true, although if the events in Thaumanova have been so destructive as described (turning the fabric of the world inside out… or something like that) they might have had an effect not only in space but in time too. In this way it would be easy to cover the gap, even if I have to admit it seems a bit too much science fiction :P.

Moreover, having Asuras involved was just my speculation. It seems typically “Asuran” making an astonishing experiment; creating a mess because of it; leaving other people cleaning out (in that case, the Humans).

Moreover, for the moment I still think that the fall of Abaddon might suggest the involvement of at least another race. If it would have been related to Human lore only why it was promoted by Evon (a Charr) and not by Keil (a Human)? Thinking that Evon may do that only to demote Humans showing that also their Gods might have been corrupted sounds a bit too harsh to me.

By the way, only the developers know the true at this moment while we may only guess. Let’s see what they will prepare for us (I still think my vote will go to Evon. His manifesto with Kiel’s pictures in SouthSun Cove is the best! :P )

Lord Trejgon.2809:

TriggerSad.2597:

Katran.9186:

TriggerSad.2597:

Now I wonder how Mr. Johanson would feel about a designer posting on the forums when he should be working… and posting in support of the enemy party no less! My o’my…

Well, they should answer at threads, aren’t they? People want some info-leaks and stuff

True, but he’s not giving the right info~!
He’s referring to the events that happened in Night Fall, but the Fractal itself will take place way before the story of the original Guild Wars. Back when Abbadon was a god, and not a wannabe Andross.

You are mistaking the things. Mouth of torment is place where Abaddon wast casted down to realm of torment before gw1. and somewhere there was gate of torment in nightfall.
so by using term “mouth of torment” he is making good reference.

You’ve mistaken it with Abaddons Gate which was Nightfall finall mission

and really every gw1 player that was interested in gw1 lore know what exacly happened at the fall of abaddon

Except we don’t know what exactly happened. All we know is the little information that the “history” books in the game tell us, and we’ve been slowly learning that a lot of the information on human history is not fully true.

Thalador.4218:

TriggerSad.2597:

Thalador.4218:

Katran.9186:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Don’t even begin. Another asuran ka-boom.
However, even with the knowledge of the past, battle of the Gods is much more intriguing

Another asura kaboom that might shed more light on the orgins of the Elder Dragons, including the knowledge of what they are exactly.

(I believe they are sentient chaos magic born of the Mists, and they were Elder “Demons” first and became dragons later – either by taking physical shape or by finding draconic hosts).

The thing is, I’d rather find that stuff out later in the Personal Story/Full Dungeons, and not a Fractal that, while taking a history book/scroll/table and bring it to life, will just drop it in our face. I want to truth about the dragons to be drawn out a bit more. Abbadon’s past is Guild Wars lore, and not Guild Wars 2 lore, so having a fractal about it would be a nice throwback as opposed to something that can have a larger impact when presented in a better manner.

I highly disagree. It might blow much of the mystery regarding the Six Gods and the reasons for Abaddon’s fall. I’d rather see it pieced together over time by say, exploring and learning the truth in the godly realms, THEN getting the Fall of Abaddon fractal.

Besides, I doubt it can be made as epic as it deserves to be/as it really was (which is probably on par with God of War battles).

And wouldn’t the Abbadon Fractal be a good start. I mean, it’s not like we’ll be seeing the full story, just the last few moments before he gets sealed. You make it sound like we’re going to see where the gods came from, why they came to Tyria, and what made Abbadon do what he did. Thought while we may see the last answered, I doubt the fractal will go so in depth that it’ll tell us everything. That’s insane!

DarksunG.9537:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Then you have to replay the mission where you have to fight the Lich and Shiro at the same time in Nightfall.

Except… He wasn’t resurrected. & The Lich wasn’t trying to resurrect him either. He & Shiro just guard the desecrated temple. The only person that tried to do it is Varesh, & she failed. You can’t have a fall story when there is no fall.

Ok, it seems that “resurrect” is not the right word to use because it’s easily misunderstood.

What I meant to say is that they are trying to resurrect him back into power, but yeah, that’s a poor choice of a word on my part.

As for Colin confirming what the “fall” is, that’s awesome!

But I still want to to see more lore about the Asura.

Unless the human gods themselves comes back and clean up the dragon mess…I’m not interested.

Hermes.7014:

I’m sure that the events concerning the Thaumanova Reactor would reveal much more than the fall of Abaddon.

This!

More God shenanigans, bah.
Screw those cowards!
Let them quake in their other dimensional hide-holes, too afraid of getting munched on by some overblown Geckos.

I wanna know what those crafty Asuran Buggers did wrong this time.

K I E L !

My first post W00T!

I am all for the Abbadon fractal but I think people will vote for Kiel due to the reduced waypoint cost for a month. Not as many people are willing to buy gems(gold or cash) to buy keys so they will not be enthusiastic about voting for Evon. Not everyone is into fractals but obviously everyone uses waypoints.

Let me just say though that personally, I’d pay DOUBLE the cost of waypoints for a month to see that fractal. Being a gw1 & 2 fanboy, this is Lore with a capital L.

Gnat.9405:

Only problem I see with Abaddon fractal is the fact that it is a fractal:

There is a lot of potential for it to be a rushed, underwhelming experience for such an epic event. I’d hate for something like this to be wasted with lackluster content.

Historically speaking… It wasn’t really anymore “Epic” than the War in Kryta was.
There was no Searing or Cataclysm tier W.M.D. Some really confused people think there was a Sea boiling away but it was really more of an Inlet b/c the south lands of Joko and Ossa were MUCH MUCH larger and mostly untouched by this whole chain of events. There was some serious potential for Mursaat involvement up in the Tarnished coast after the Bloodstones themselves were involved… but its extremely doubtful that Anet will play that card yet.

Little is known about the original Bloodstone except that it was just as powerful a source of magic as the sleeping Dragons were… and was gifted to Orrions by Abbadon making him a crowd favorite b/c it really DID make their lives so much easier than any contributions from the other 5 gods.. Hence it’s way too much “Plot” for Anet to go into in a single fractal mission without just DROWNING the player in Exposition

Interesting how almost everyone is making the connection:

Thaumanova = Metrica Province = YAWN.

How impressive do you really think a fractal is going to be? I’m not convinced it could do the fall of Abaddon justice. I’d rather find out what happened at Thaumanova – this has been kept well under the radar.

Kiel is cuter. That is all.

Khisanth.2948:

A fractal is too short to provide much lore. Much better for covering what happened at the reactor than the fall of Abaddon. Doubtful there is any relation to the dragons. There aren’t any corrupt creatures anywhere near or in the reactor.

Something that covers the fall of Abaddon should at least be the length of Eye of the North. Doing it as a fractal is pretty much begging to have gaping holes in your lore. Anthony’s post also makes it sound like it will just cover the final battle where Abaddon gets imprisoned and none of the interesting stuff that happened before.

Got to agree with this.
The Fall of Abaddon is a huge event far larger in importance than the reactor. He gave magic to the world, so much that it was begged to be restricted. Apparently turned evil and sealed. The guy behind Orr’s destruction, Cantha’s jade sea, meaning he’s also why Togo (R.I.P). He’s why Zhaiten had an undead supply source ready to create his army when he woke up. Why would this event be done in some small fractal?

To be honest a fractal most certainly could not do it justice.

The Reactor is nothing, we know pretty much no importance of it, we don’t witness anything important coming from it other than the fluctuations at the site. Abaddon’s legacies have shaped the world.

TriggerSad.2597:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

TriggerSad.2597:

Katran.9186:

TriggerSad.2597:

Now I wonder how Mr. Johanson would feel about a designer posting on the forums when he should be working… and posting in support of the enemy party no less! My o’my…

Well, they should answer at threads, aren’t they? People want some info-leaks and stuff

True, but he’s not giving the right info~!
He’s referring to the events that happened in Night Fall, but the Fractal itself will take place way before the story of the original Guild Wars. Back when Abbadon was a god, and not a wannabe Andross.

You are mistaking the things. Mouth of torment is place where Abaddon wast casted down to realm of torment before gw1. and somewhere there was gate of torment in nightfall.
so by using term “mouth of torment” he is making good reference.

You’ve mistaken it with Abaddons Gate which was Nightfall finall mission

and really every gw1 player that was interested in gw1 lore know what exacly happened at the fall of abaddon

Except we don’t know what exactly happened. All we know is the little information that the “history” books in the game tell us, and we’ve been slowly learning that a lot of the information on human history is not fully true.

You know that was a cycle of stories developed by ANet outside the game?
the whole relation from Abaddon fall – from Abaddons perpective is in one on them

about upper theory with that reactor – it’s very interesting

EDIT: ok I admit when I first read it I missed one thing…
that was fan fick so actually we cannot tell that we know everything about the fall

Nightarch.2943:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

The Asura dug too deep. Found the Mursaat, Mursaat in return retaliated got rid of any witnesses.

That would explain why they’re adding Ascended so soon for armor and weapons too.

Sarie.1630:

I’m not convinced it could do the fall of Abaddon justice.

So you’re saying you’d rather not see the fall of Abaddon ever than see it as a fractal?

SpeedFiend.4521:

Sarie.1630:

I’m not convinced it could do the fall of Abaddon justice.

So you’re saying you’d rather not see the fall of Abaddon ever than see it as a fractal?

In Guild Wars 1 we had the Bonus Mission Pack which allowed us to experience historical events. I would rather experience the fall of Abaddon outside a fractal environment.

Sarie.1630:

SpeedFiend.4521:

Sarie.1630:

I’m not convinced it could do the fall of Abaddon justice.

So you’re saying you’d rather not see the fall of Abaddon ever than see it as a fractal?

In Guild Wars 1 we had the Bonus Mission Pack which allowed us to experience historical events. I would rather experience the fall of Abaddon outside a fractal environment.

Except Colin has stated we won’t get whichever one doesn’t win, or else it’s not much of a choice, the way I see it that means fractal or nothing.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Don’t care, we want the God of secrets back.

The problem I have with the Thaumanova Reactor incident is even if it leads to more information about the Elder Dragons; is that the dragons thus far have not been as engrossing as Abbadon’s lore. A-net has nailed it in so many times that the dragons are just forces of nature with no motivation. They even have weaker character development then a fallen god. Simply because dragons have a “cool” factor to them and are wield a greater power (through re-writing some lore), does not make them an interesting antagonist. This is probably I did not enjoy encounter with Urthemiel (the final antagonist) in Dragon Age: Origins. Unfortunately GW2 elder dragon lore has been nothing but a Micheal Bay take in character development. Very boring and cliche.

Abbadon on the other hand is a fascinating character with his motivation and strategies. He always felt like a combination of something out of Greek (Eris), Norse (Loki), Egyptian (Apophis), and other mythologies that carried a type of black sheep god. Probably had good intentions for humanity even with a few selfish undertones. There would even be a good chance he knew more about the oncoming storm with the elder dragons at that time, then the bit of information we might get from the Thaumanova Reactor. Not to mention the potential cameo’s and plot holes that could be filled about certain other characters we knew from GW1. I am talking about menzies, dhuum, glint, the 5 elder races, the spider god he usurped power from, and much more. Not expecting huge exposition since it will be a fractal. Nevertheless lore wise it seems more exciting concept overall.

Don’t get me wrong I love the Asura, and I find them to less bland then humans. It’s just that the Thaumanova Reactor incident has me picturing the inquest planting a bomb like a game of Counter Strike. I’m sorry but Kudu’s (bad mixture of Ernst Blofeld & Albert Wesker) failed CoE experiment was a melodramatic “carrot on stick” information pertaining to the Elder Dragons was terrible. This is probably exactly what we will be seeing again. I could be wrong though and if Kiel wins I hope A-net does prove that they know how to weave elaborate narrative still (without forcing upon us).

Soulstar.7812:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Don’t care, we want the God of secrets back.

Rips in time and space from the Thaumanova Reactor. Could allow the Gods to come back from the past.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Soulstar.7812:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Don’t care, we want the God of secrets back.

Rips in time and space from the Thaumanova Reactor. Could allow the Gods to come back from the past.

I think I have a better idea, how about we bring back the gods and maybe then they could allow us to go watch the reactor explode.

SpeedFiend.4521:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Soulstar.7812:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

Don’t care, we want the God of secrets back.

Rips in time and space from the Thaumanova Reactor. Could allow the Gods to come back from the past.

I think I have a better idea, how about we bring back the gods and maybe then they could allow us to go watch the reactor explode.

I just said how the Gods could come back.

Quantum fluctuations in time and space. Would create areas space in the game world where the past can interact with the peasant.

Sindex.9520:

Don’t get me wrong I love the Asura, and I find them to less bland then humans. It’s just that the Thaumanova Reactor incident has me picturing the inquest planting a bomb like a game of Counter Strike. I’m sorry but Kudu’s (bad mixture of Ernst Blofeld & Albert Wesker) failed CoE experiment was a melodramatic “carrot on stick” information pertaining to the Elder Dragons was terrible. This is probably exactly what we will be seeing again. I could be wrong though and if Kiel wins I hope A-net does prove that they know how to weave elaborate narrative still (without forcing upon us).

Why would the Inquest plant a bomb in their own reactor? The experiment just went wrong somehow.

Also, fun fact, Abaddon was only really elaborate because they had to sort out so many loose ends left by sketchy lore to begin with. Not to mention they had to pull him out of thin air, despite already having an existing ancient god to work with, and then cover it up with broad strokes like, “The gods covered up all remaining traces of him.” Which was in the face of producing additional problems…Like his statues being found, the gigantic wasteland containing wreckage of some of his people, and some stuff in Orr.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Abaddon as a character, since he’s probably one of the deeper and more complex ones we have, but I’m not going to look past that that’s because he was the result of trying to fix a lot of standing problems with the lore. And even then, his creation produced additional problems that have only kind of messily been addressed.

Jeez, can´t you Abaddon GW1 nostalgics see that the frenzy you´re talking yourselves into can only be heavily disappointed with this one puny fractal?

You´re going to play it over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over again.

Then again.

Guess how long the epicness will last?

So if Anet decides to “cast” us as foot-troops while we watch the gods duke it out in the background/horizon, similar in tech to the end of that bound giant fractal.
So kinda like God of War style.

How often will you be wowed by the “epicness”?

I´d rather have the Devs brainstorm on a more mundane setting by creating quirky dungeon mechanics, than wrecking their brains on how to wrap up ALL the missing GW1 Abaddon lore in one 30-40min fractal.

Get real guys!

I’ve fought enough of Margonites, Demons, Titans, undead Liches, Shiro’ken, and even an Envoy in my time playing GW1 ( and I still play it regularly to add that!).

Basically, as a GW1 veteran, I’m tired of Abaddon. Proph, Factions and Nightfall all eventually tied into this “god”. Can I have something a little different?

I know neither Kiel or Evon will bring this, but how about the mystery of the Mursaat? What ever happened to them? Do they have a city?

Arrrrghhh…. instead they focus on worn out Lore (Abaddon) or a new thing all together!!

Nightarch.2943:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

The Asura dug too deep. Found the Balrog, Balrog in return retaliated got rid of any witnesses.

Fixed that for ya…couldn’t help it you left it too wide open lolz.

LumAnth.5124:

I’ve fought enough of Margonites, Demons, Titans, undead Liches, Shiro’ken, and even an Envoy in my time playing GW1 ( and I still play it regularly to add that!).

Basically, as a GW1 veteran, I’m tired of Abaddon. Proph, Factions and Nightfall all eventually tied into this “god”. Can I have something a little different?

I know neither Kiel or Evon will bring this, but how about the mystery of the Mursaat? What ever happened to them? Do they have a city?

Arrrrghhh…. instead they focus on worn out Lore (Abaddon) or a new thing all together!!

The Mursaat were wiped out to within an inch of Lazarus the Dire’s life. On the flip side, we know that there are some cool plans for them in GW2.

Sure, we’ve fought Margonites and all their assorted allies before, but we’re not quite sure WHY. Everyone claims Abaddon is evil and so on, so forth, but we’ve never heard his side of the story.

He gifted magic to all the races of Tyria (for reasons unknown), then waged war on the five when they sealed said gift in the Bloodstone and shattered it. He alone (and now that kitten able usurper Kormir) knows just what was so bad about the place humanity left for Tyria.

You have to remember, he’s the god of secrets. Odds are, he knew about the Elder Dragons. He could have easily forseen the Gods’ “no intervention” policy leading to our collective demise at the hands of the EDs. So what does he do? He gives us freakin’ MAGIC to fight back with. Sure, even the limited magic of today was enough, but it required technology, research and a very very weak target. The, for lack of a better term, overkill magic Abaddon gifted the races of Tyria would would surely fare better against the threat of the EDs.

In closing… what if I told you we might have been playing for the wrong team this whole time?

StinVec.3621:

I would love to have an interactive story (similar to our personal story or a living story) that reveals and allows us to experience all of this lore (Abaddon and Thaumanova) firsthand…but not as a fractal where I need to experience it with other people if I want to experience it at all. Make fractals solo-friendly, or make this lore available outside fractals for solo-content only players.

This entire thing just disappoints me.
I vote for: Lore Content Via Soloable Instances
Not: Required Group Play To Experience Lore Content

I also would have preferred soloable content. Or even content that 2-3 people could complete. However fractals might be a way for Anet to implement old lore related content in a faster, smaller setting. I’m not sure how difficult or easy it is to produce a fractal instance over living story content or dynamic events, but they must have their reasons for wanting to update fractals. This likely won’t be the only thing the add to the game that is lore heavy, but it will allow the players to have some say in what gets added next.

Aside from that I am totally voting for Evon. I want to see the Gods. I want to know why Abaddon did what he did and what the nature of the Gods really is. There’s so much legend and speculation behind who and what they are that I’ve been dying to know more about their origins and intentions. If this means we get to visit a portion of Elona and the crystal desert then it would be worth trying out. I want to see how he became this:

He was human God like all other gods. Humans Borns in Mist and come frome there, Via 5Gods. Why he did whathe did? simple… bcos of POWER he fall befor they kick his kitten to Realm of Torment. Remember if you cant win 1vs4, then you give power of Gods other races, they lost mind frome the great power. And fallowed by this Abbadon create his own Army “Margonits” with power almost queal to gods. And what Human Gods had? 3 Nations fighting each other… and King Doric…. i bet when Doric sacriface himself, and Gods Seal Bloodstones Margonits lost their Gods power, to power what we have now.

But question is, do Humans also fight in this fights or its was Abbadon and army of us vs rest of gods? we need this event to know what happen, and do Bloodstones=Godpower.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Nightarch.2943:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It matters, but we all pretty much know exactly what happened at the Mouth of Torment.

Nobody knows what happened at Thaumanova…yet.

The Asura dug too deep. Found the Balrog, Balrog in return retaliated got rid of any witnesses.

Fixed that for ya…couldn’t help it you left it too wide open lolz.

How about no?

SpeedFiend.4521:

LumAnth.5124:

I’ve fought enough of Margonites, Demons, Titans, undead Liches, Shiro’ken, and even an Envoy in my time playing GW1 ( and I still play it regularly to add that!).

Basically, as a GW1 veteran, I’m tired of Abaddon. Proph, Factions and Nightfall all eventually tied into this “god”. Can I have something a little different?

I know neither Kiel or Evon will bring this, but how about the mystery of the Mursaat? What ever happened to them? Do they have a city?

Arrrrghhh…. instead they focus on worn out Lore (Abaddon) or a new thing all together!!

Snip

hide spoiler

The Mursaat were wiped out to within an inch of Lazarus the Dire’s life. On the flip side, we know that there are some cool plans for them in GW2.

Sure, we’ve fought Margonites and all their assorted allies before, but we’re not quite sure WHY. Everyone claims Abaddon is evil and so on, so forth, but we’ve never heard his side of the story.

He gifted magic to all the races of Tyria (for reasons unknown), then waged war on the five when they sealed said gift in the Bloodstone and shattered it. He alone (and now that kitten able usurper Kormir) knows just what was so bad about the place humanity left for Tyria.

You have to remember, he’s the god of secrets. Odds are, he knew about the Elder Dragons. He could have easily forseen the Gods’ “no intervention” policy leading to our collective demise at the hands of the EDs. So what does he do? He gives us freakin’ MAGIC to fight back with. Sure, even the limited magic of today was enough, but it required technology, research and a very very weak target. The, for lack of a better term, overkill magic Abaddon gifted the races of Tyria would would surely fare better against the threat of the EDs.

In closing… what if I told you we might have been playing for the wrong team this whole time?

As far as some are concerned, that’s all we’ve ever been doing in all of the stories. So yeah, we haven’t come very far.

SpeedFiend.4521:

SNIP

hide spoiler

LumAnth.5124:

I’ve fought enough of Margonites, Demons, Titans, undead Liches, Shiro’ken, and even an Envoy in my time playing GW1 ( and I still play it regularly to add that!).

Basically, as a GW1 veteran, I’m tired of Abaddon. Proph, Factions and Nightfall all eventually tied into this “god”. Can I have something a little different?

I know neither Kiel or Evon will bring this, but how about the mystery of the Mursaat? What ever happened to them? Do they have a city?

Arrrrghhh…. instead they focus on worn out Lore (Abaddon) or a new thing all together!!

The Mursaat were wiped out to within an inch of Lazarus the Dire’s life. On the flip side, we know that there are some cool plans for them in GW2.

Sure, we’ve fought Margonites and all their assorted allies before, but we’re not quite sure WHY. Everyone claims Abaddon is evil and so on, so forth, but we’ve never heard his side of the story.

He gifted magic to all the races of Tyria (for reasons unknown), then waged war on the five when they sealed said gift in the Bloodstone and shattered it. He alone (and now that kitten able usurper Kormir) knows just what was so bad about the place humanity left for Tyria.

You have to remember, he’s the god of secrets. Odds are, he knew about the Elder Dragons. He could have easily forseen the Gods’ “no intervention” policy leading to our collective demise at the hands of the EDs. So what does he do? He gives us freakin’ MAGIC to fight back with. Sure, even the limited magic of today was enough, but it required technology, research and a very very weak target. The, for lack of a better term, overkill magic Abaddon gifted the races of Tyria would would surely fare better against the threat of the EDs.

In closing… what if I told you we might have been playing for the wrong team this whole time?

Pure magic – power such a great that no race was ready to have – and if it wasn’t taken – all the Tyria would be destroyed because of that – that’s why Doric Asked gods to take this “gift” away – because he have seen that will lead only to destruction of everything.

anyway let me remind all of ppl here about something with Abaddons “Gifts” there are no single person who received “gift” from abaddon – and doesn’t get mad.

SpeedFiend.4521:

If I may turn your attention to this approximate map of Tyria as of 250 years ago. See that poorly-circled red area? That’s the Crystal Desert and the Desolation! The Crystal Desert is (wait for it) a desert. The Desolation is also a desert, albeit one full of sulfur and considerably more death than its Crystal cousin.

Now we get to why all of this matters. You see, that was all water. The Crystal Sea, in fact. Right up until this fall of that Abaddon guy you keep hearing about.

Minor corrections:

The Desolation is considered in some texts to be part of the Crystal Desert. Before Abaddon’s fall, it was the sea’s coastline and home of the Temple of the Six as well as the Gates of Heaven.

Katran.9186:

Don’t even begin. Another asuran ka-boom.

It’s more than just a ka-boom.

The Thaumanova Reactor is the core foundation of Inquest lore across the entire game.

• The results of the research there lies in Brisban Wildlands.
• The Chaos Crystal Caverns is where the Inquest got their experiment devices.
• Most importantly, Thaumanova is the precursor to the Crucible of Eternity which is the primary base of the Inquest and where they not only studied the Elder Dragons, but combining Elder Dragon corruptions (Subject Alpha).
• It is a study of chaos magic that is capable of twisting space and possibly even time.

Hell for all we know, Subject Alpha was made at Thaumanova and is why that place went to hell…

Vote for Thaumanova, and you’ll get a view on how magic works, and perhaps even on the Elder Dragons.

Vote for fall of Abaddon and all you get is a visual of already known lore. Nothing new at all except for what Abaddon looked like pre-fall, and perhaps the other five gods too but who knows.

Deified.7520:

Main reason I don’t care too much about Thaumanova is because nothing in the game really entices me to ask why. […] There is nothing in that place that I found that really makes me want to know what happened, nothing that tugs on my lore strings.

When not only Thaumanova blew up, but its successor – the Crucible of Eternity – does. It makes you wonder what exactly were being researched at both to blow them up…

Crucible of Eternity blew up because of rampant draconic energies (that’s Elder Dragon magic for you bookahs).

Anet doesn’t make things pointblank, and the Thaumanova lore is across the entire bloody continent, but it’s there and by gods it’s interesting. You explored the place? That’s fine, but the real lore to it is in 3 places not at the reactor – Brisban Wildlands, Iron Marches, and Mount Maelstrom.

So would you rather have no new lore on Abaddon, except appearances, or new lore on the Elder Dragons and on magic itself?

Deified.7520:

Perhaps link to another dragon. Anything like that.

The ironies. There’s links to five of the six Elder Dragons there. Well, possible links.

The problem with folks and their view of the fractals is that they’re judging a book by a cover. Think about it, would Anet really pit an awesome fractal against a dull one? No. They wouldn’t. They probably have epic concepts for them both planned out already. We know what to expect from the fall of Abaddon and while that may be awesome in its own rite, wouldn’t the mystery of something new be more interesting when that something new is the very core of an entire playable race villain organization, the main threat of the campaign, and the biggest unknown in all of lore (magic)?

Abaddon spread magic to the races, but what is magic? What is chaos magic? The reactor fractal may have the answers. The fall of Abaddon… definitely won’t.

SpeedFiend.4521::

He gifted magic to all the races of Tyria (for reasons unknown), then waged war on the five when they sealed said gift in the Bloodstone and shattered it. He alone (and now that kitten able usurper Kormir) knows just what was so bad about the place humanity left for Tyria.

Not quite.

Lore we have tells us that he granted unique magic to different groups, and from this the Margonites became fanatical to worshiping him – to the point of desicrating the other five gods’ shrines in the Temple of the Six.

This act enraged the Forgotten, who in turn waged war on the Margonites. Cue the Scriptures of Abaddon event where Jadoth begs Abaddon to save his life. Abaddon does so, enraged over the Forgotten trying to wipe out the Margonites (why it royally kitten ed him off isn’t clear though).

Due to his intervention, the other Five Gods then conflicted with Abaddon, eventually leading to his downfall.

Mind you, where the whole King Doric pleaded and they divided the bloodstone bit isn’t really known where it falls into this, nor do we know of Abaddon’s reaction to the bloodstones’ division.

@Konig (not even gonna try to quote)
While this is an oppositiion of new lore vs old, I can’t agree that we know things so seemingly certainly in regards to the Fall. I believe you recently made the point of the importance of making judgment based not only on actions, but the motivation behind them as well. I see the Fall of Abaddon in much the same way – we know in broad strokes what happened. The exact motivations of Abaddon remain unclear, and without them we don’t have the complete picture.