It appears that the new bosses are completely immune to condition dmg and instantly reflects it back to you.
I spent about 500g, and a month of my time fitting my necro out to be a condition user. I have to literally stand at the boss OOC for 10+ minutes and do nothing. My options seem to be respec or be worthless.
If you want to make things that are strong against conditions then just make them immune, the reflect is crippling to me, every weapon I own and even my auto-attack applies conditions, my only option is standing there OOC for most of the fight.
Engineers suffer from this as well, my primary ranged damage weapon (grenades) applies conditions. Even though I’m using a power build I suffer from the conditions.
Yeah… at the moment I think they should just patch condition damage out of their game, since it is no use at all against these bosses. Honestly don’t know who had this “great” idea for a boss mechanic -.-
Yeah, it’s been said for a while now that Condition Builds are very suitable for PVE. Seeing as they max stack at 25 and with a zerg that max is hit in seconds it’s just not the greatest strategy.
The reflect sounds like a real nail in the coffin for Condition builds in PVE.
80 ~Thief~ Isabella Angel | 80 ~Eng~ Ratchet McClank
80 ~Warrior~ Delvoire | 80 ~Ele~ Azalea Avenir
80 ~ Guardian~ Rag Nor | Server ~ FA
The Assault Knight has two Modes. In the first Mode he is really an anti condition kitten but in the second mode he weakens more the more conditions are on him.
Also one of the bosses in Breachmaker is impossible without conditions
Kinda mixed on it. On one had, the conditions are valuable when the assault knights stop reflecting. On the other hand, how it handles reflect seems really idiotic. It’s one thing if they gave condition builds an option in response, but that’s not what happening. It can’t be dispelled like a buff or anything as far as I can see.
It doesn’t help I can just ignore the reflect due to diamond skin. The knights are pathetic once their area pull attack is dodged…
The Assault Knight has two Modes. In the first Mode he is really an anti condition kitten but in the second mode he weakens more the more conditions are on him.
Also one of the bosses in Breachmaker is impossible without conditions
Which just highlights another problem with conditions. The conditions are applied on a first come first serve basis. If some mesmer with 8 condition damage applies a bleed right before I apply a bleed with 1300 condition damage mine is ignored and the damage done is by the mesmer bleed. Since there is a cap conditions just slowly kill those mobs over time with no effort due to the zerg maintaining a constant condition cap on them at all times.
Surely if something isn’t viable but is in game it should be encouraged.
Personally I am a little bored having to sit around as a condi class waiting to be able to attack.
Engis are getting a raw deal as 90% of their abilities put on condis in some form. Necros arent far behind.
Just give more people fuel for the “GO ZERK WARR OR DONT PLAY” spam
It really is disturbing that the devs refuse to acknowledge and adjust things for how people and zergs actually perform. When conditions are well more than half the game, why would they decide that reflecting them is a sane, fair option, especially when there are autoattacks that do it?
It’s bad enough that a heavy-CC build is generally crippled by champions, but hearing this just makes me question whether some devs need to be let go for some vacation time. Apparently, the two-week schedule is causing panic attacks that make things like the above seem like good ideas.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Ignorance at its best.
These fights are horrible, boring and another zerglag fest.
ANET proves yet again that they do not listen to player feedback but keep putting out the same trash and presenting it as content.
Not to mention the bugs due to the forced release schedule dates.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet
When I saw the anti-condi buff and remembered all the talk about viable PvE conditions build and how I had to respec the main to a power build, it was a solid flat no-condi facepalm.
These fights are horrible, boring and another zerglag fest.
ANET proves yet again that they do not listen to player feedback but keep putting out the same trash and presenting it as content.
Funny I am seeing mostly opposite comments from other people in this thread trying to explain that the fight isn’t a zergfest and how to handle the phases without zerging as to avoid repair cost.
Also, people in the game are having a blast if you are reading mapchat.
Far as I can tell, they are listening to fans. Maybe just not listening completely to you or the rest of the vocal minority that can never be pleased.
About that lag…smooth as silk on my end. The last few updates have been remarkably so. Maybe time to upgrade that PC brah.
I am not sure what to think. As a Flamethrower/rifle engineer i find it very hard. The reflect seems to be on and off quite off ten and due to all the spell effects and having to dodge i honestly can’t really see when the reflect is active or not and i die allot.
To everyone saying condition players aren’t being screwed:
You can powerDPS the whole fight, you can’t condition spam for more than half of it. As a staff mesmer I literally have to afk until condition time (if I bother to do it at all) because every little kitten thing I do gives me an illusion that casts winds of chaos.
Whatever guild I’m repping today [tag]
Borlis Pass’ official male cheerleader
Commander by title: Sawnec the Mesmer
These fights are horrible, boring and another zerglag fest.
ANET proves yet again that they do not listen to player feedback but keep putting out the same trash and presenting it as content.
Not to mention the bugs due to the forced release schedule dates.
I didn’t know that when someone doesn’t agree with you they are ignorant. Interesting. I also didn’t know that the fights are “horrible” and “boring” because you said so. Enlightening.
I actually see most people liking the new content. For these forums that says something. I find the fights fun and worth the effort. In no way do I see them as horrible.
I don’t have any problem with lag and it takes some coordination to do some of these events so, it is not a zergfest in my eyes.
I think this event is exactly what a lot of players were looking for.
You need to stand on the color circles. Don’t AFK, that’s purely idiotic, but does it really cost that much to just switch one of your weapons to a power one for just that little bit untill you allow condi on it.
Don’t you people like at least some challenge? Later you would complain how there’s no challenge..
Just take the challenge on, play a little, have a good laugh and enjoy the game. You don’t have to be a hardcore MMO player to take on a little challenge.
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
Conditions were never viable in PVE, especially in zerg events, wonder when people learn it.
My condi was doing just fine in the previous chapter, and dished out more than enough mass pain to compensate for low dps companions. Epidemic for the assist, if not the win.
Also, you could apply conditions and when they reflect back use Consume Conditions for a heal and thus cleanse yourself.
So the real question is have you ever looked at your skills? Its like you are voluntarily blind to any skills that have support utility or aren’t directly related to you own DPS. They just don’t physically show up to you in the skill list.
Edit: Nb4 “it doesn’t matter I was wrong, I shouldn’t have to swap skills brawr brawr rawr”. Except that…you should.
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
Conditions only really seem viable in WvW and sPVP (they work wonders there), PVE not so much.
I will say though, I have a guildy who runs full Dire on his necro and he says it’s the best decision he ever made. Me and him did a hell of a lot of fractals and all he could talk about was how much condition damage he did.
I didn’t know that when someone doesn’t agree with you they are ignorant. Interesting. I also didn’t know that the fights are “horrible” and “boring” because you said so. Enlightening.
I actually see most people liking the new content. For these forums that says something. I find the fights fun and worth the effort. In no way do I see them as horrible.
I don’t have any problem with lag and it takes some coordination to do some of these events so, it is not a zergfest in my eyes.
I think this event is exactly what a lot of players were looking for.
Someone that doesnt acknowledge builds that rely on conditions and is telling people to learn to play is indeed ignorant.
As for this content i dont consider punching sponges for 12 minutes fun. There is ZERO strategy involved in these fights. All you need to do is dodge the pulls or the attacks and range DPS.
These fights are utterly boring and to say most people enjoy them just shows what GW2s living story has long since devolved into. A boring zergfest where you occasionally use dodge and spam your attacks. If you are a hardcore farmer i bet you are enjoying these easy farms. The rest of us, not so much.
Funny I am seeing mostly opposite comments from other people in this thread trying to explain that the fight isn’t a zergfest and how to handle the phases without zerging as to avoid repair cost.
Also, people in the game are having a blast if you are reading mapchat.
Far as I can tell, they are listening to fans. Maybe just not listening completely to you or the rest of the vocal minority that can never be pleased.
About that lag…smooth as silk on my end. The last few updates have been remarkably so. Maybe time to upgrade that PC brah.
Brah, how about ANET fixes their code or actually designs fights that dont involve 100 people spamming attacks on a single target or a ball of enemies with ridiculous visual effects so you cant even see what they are doing half the time?
Inconceivable for you brah?
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet
Brah, how about ANET fixes their code or actually designs fights that dont involve 100 people spamming attacks on a single target or a ball of enemies with ridiculous visual effects so you cant even see what they are doing half the time?
Inconceivable for you brah?
Yeah, nope. See, if people could sit and spam attacks mindlessly (one would say in a zerg like fashion), then you wouldn’t have folks here QQing about having to play outside their comfort zone. Like Marionette did, once again, to Zerk players and like Wurm does in a similar fashion during phase 2, and like Husks do during phase 1.
And you are talking about code again, for a lot of people the game runs fine. And for those that don’t like the effects there is a graphics option to tone them down. If you cant make out whats going on on the screen, and your having performance issues…that’s a personal problem you should work out instead of putting the onus on strangers.
But you go ahead, keep up that whole “Anet not listening to anyone” and “they need to fix their code!” angle. Maybe it will get you somewhere one day. The vast majority of players, we are going to be enjoying the game or doing something else we enjoy if we are not enjoying the game. Because thats more fun than carrying an agenda and expecting a game dev to come fix your computer or internet.
Also, you could apply conditions and when they reflect back use Consume Conditions for a heal and thus cleanse yourself.
So the real question is have you ever looked at your skills? Its like you are voluntarily blind to any skills that have support utility or aren’t directly related to you own DPS. They just don’t physically show up to you in the skill list.
Edit: Nb4 “it doesn’t matter I was wrong, I shouldn’t have to swap skills brawr brawr rawr”. Except that…you should.
Since you asked…
Flesh worm -max range- Killed by large AOE in 1 hit
Rigor -max range – Your solution is to have me apply a condition to him?
summon minions and putrid explosion- guess you’ve never used these guys, they die before they can get into explosion range
Signet of undeath- with the 3 second cast time and 180s CD I suppose I could use this once or twice during the whole fight if someone else casts stability on me.
Spectral Wall- Again… a condition…
Well of Power- This one is actually useful. I have been using this, but with a 50s CD it leaves a lot of down time
Lich Form 1,4,5- This elite skill is useable but it only lasts 20s in a 10 minute fight with a 3 min CD, again not too useful.
Well of Blood- A heal skill, I guess technically this can be useful to people.
Reapers Touch- net gain of 0 since it applies a condition again that is reflected.
Mark of Blood- More conditions, 4 stacks of bleeds at my condition damage is almost 3k dmg over the duration, more than the regen.
Spinal Shivers- another condition…
Corrupt Boon- He doesn’t have any boons so….
Plague Signet- sends conditions to my foe… yep real winner there…
Out of all the skills you listed only 3 are potentially useful and are all on huge CD’s
I could switch to axe mainhand or dagger mainhand. Both of those are direct damage weapons, however due to my spec I apply 2 stacks of bleed on every crit with a high crit chance…
So basically my only solution is to change weapons, armor, and respec my traits… which brings us back to the original problem…
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
At this point, I’m starting to wonder if I can hurt others by generating fire fields. Fire Field + Projectile Finisher = Burning. I’m not affected either way (even if I was the target of the reflected burn, diamond skin blocks it), but I am concerned about others.
Just give more people fuel for the “GO ZERK WARR OR DONT PLAY” spam
Don’t be narrow minded casual and just change to power build.
^
Is the narrow minded casual.
I have a build that depends on condis. I am already in competition with other condi classes for stacks.
I play engineer where around 12-25% of my damage comes from condis just being on something.
Also to be effective I have to use kits, all of which have condi built in on some level.
All the traits i need for a power build add a chance to add condis.
So can you see the issue?
I would much preferred a shield we can remove by doing something.
I would love to see how much hate the mechanic would be if it said 100% of crit damage is reflected or even 100% of physical damage.
Closest we have seen to that is the wurm husks and how many zergs wont go near there now because “I cant spam 1 it and it die”
At this point, I’m starting to wonder if I can hurt others by generating fire fields. Fire Field + Projectile Finisher = Burning. I’m not affected either way (even if I was the target of the reflected burn, diamond skin blocks it), but I am concerned about others.
I can confirm that this does hurt others. I’m giving myself conditions through the fields constantly. But I’m not going to blame the people who set them down…I’m blaming Anet for this one.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Conditions were never viable in PVE, especially in zerg events, wonder when people learn it.
In Zerg events, they are only useful up to a very immediate point, true. That doesn’t mean that condition users should be penalized. What about Guardians, who have auto-burn every fifth attack and can’t swap it out? It sounds like a pain. I guess we just gotta swap out for condition removal skills and play it conservative. Boring.
Yeah, nope. See, if people could sit and spam attacks mindlessly (one would say in a zerg like fashion), then you wouldn’t have folks here QQing about having to play outside their comfort zone. Like Marionette did, once again, to Zerk players and like Wurm does in a similar fashion during phase 2, and like Husks do during phase 1.
And you are talking about code again, for a lot of people the game runs fine. And for those that don’t like the effects there is a graphics option to tone them down. If you cant make out whats going on on the screen, and your having performance issues…that’s a personal problem you should work out instead of putting the onus on strangers.
But you go ahead, keep up that whole “Anet not listening to anyone” and “they need to fix their code!” angle. Maybe it will get you somewhere one day. The vast majority of players, we are going to be enjoying the game or doing something else we enjoy if we are not enjoying the game. Because thats more fun than carrying an agenda and expecting a game dev to come fix your computer or internet.
Playing out of your comfort zone is one thing. Being forced into a playstyle/build is another. Mind you, you can sit back and spam attacks in this fight, especially if you dont rely on conditions.
The game doesnt run fine for most people, go check the tech forums. The reduced effects option doesnt do anything to the oversized sprites and fails in zerg battles.
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about and are trying to present this as my issue when it is clearly an issue for many if not the majority of the playerbase.
If you are having so much fun with the content then why are you posting here and wasting time? What is your agenda? Trying to prove someone wrong on the internet when you have no good arguments so you have to resort to presenting them as incompetent? Maybe it will get you somewhere one day.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike O’Brien, President of Arenanet
At this point, I’m starting to wonder if I can hurt others by generating fire fields. Fire Field + Projectile Finisher = Burning. I’m not affected either way (even if I was the target of the reflected burn, diamond skin blocks it), but I am concerned about others.
I can confirm that this does hurt others. I’m giving myself conditions through the fields constantly. But I’m not going to blame the people who set them down…I’m blaming Anet for this one.
Wonderful.
Two thirds of projectile finishers are conditions. So any classes can hurt range users through the boss’s reflect.
Conditions are actually really valuable during the fight. I believe at 75% health (until it reaches 50%) conditions will increase the damage the boss takes. At 50% it starts reflecting them until 25% where they help again. You actually want conditions for this fight.
Despite that, my early assessment is that this is a stupid mechanic. I love that conditions are helpful during the fight but I despise that they are a burden for 50% of the fight. Some builds will just have to stop attacking for a good chunk of the fight (moving between events isn’t guaranteed to help because it’s easily possible for each event to triggering the vulnerability stage at similar times). I would love for the condition vulnerability mechanic to stay and be used more often in world boss events. I don’t understand why the reflection mechanic was used at all. For one thing, many builds will inflict incidental conditions (bleed on crit) despite not being condition based. That will suck for those players. Another, direct damage is useful for 100% of the fight, conditions are not – how is that fair? I just don’t understand why they would design it this way.
It doesn’t feel strategic, it just feels like they are saying “kitten off” to condition builds for 50% of the fight. Do they think we have builds that swap between direct damage and condition damage in the same build?
Playing out of your comfort zone is one thing. Being forced into a playstyle/build is another. Mind you, you can sit back and spam attacks in this fight, especially if you dont rely on conditions.
That’s more or less what my setup has been reduced to. D/D ele with conjurer, my Flame Axe 1 is pretty much my only attack since it gives me might. It’s not wise to get up close. People keep stealing Frost Bows so I can’t rely on those (despite most of it’s attack doing conditions). And if I drop FA 4 + 2 (might combo), people can hurt themselves off of my fire field.
It’s not even a threat to me. All in all, not really an enjoyable boss fight.
There are stages. Melee handles DPS and condi players should be supporting them instead of stacking damage. Phase 2 the condi players stack as many unique conditions as long and as high as they can to make the boss weaker.
Try adapting to the fight instead of jump-the-gun raging because all builds cant face-roll win the encounter the exact same way.
I remember all of the QQ from zerker players that Wardens 3 in Marionette couldn’t just be face tanked and 4 required moving around and weapon swapping.
Put on your big kid pants folks, after a year and a half Anet is making you learn how to actually play the game.
Please explain to me how I as a condition necro am supposed to “support” the melee players?
Also explain to me why a condition user is necessary to stack conditions when power builds apply the same conditions and reach the cap without any condition user help?
I literally CAN’T play the game. any action at all from my character results in the application of conditions that down me. Please explain how I am supposed to do anything other than just stand there.
Here is a list of necro utilities that I can use to “support” my allies:
Out of the 20 utilities:
4 are minions that die in 1 hit from the knights AOE
4 are personal defense and do no damage
12 apply conditions
I await your all knowing power to enlighten me on how I need to L2P.
Follow the golden rule and don’t play with conditions in PvE. Problem solved.
So basically don’t play necromancer, the class that revolves around conditions.
Or use axe, dagger, staff, death shroud, lich form, well of power, well of corruption, ranged minions … you know … power stuff.
I don’t think you realize how much of that stuff is condition heavy do you?
Do you even HAVE a necromancer?
Actually that was my first character and i have 1000+ hours in it, thank you.
With the exception of axe auto every option can be used to deal damage without any condition and the vuln from axe wouldnt kill you either.
@Freekpalmer: Flamethrower or Rifle. You have options to choose from out of combat and swap out Granade kit.
@Shiren: +1, but without any dedicated condi user, the boss will be bath in every condition after 2 seconds anyway.
