Guild Wars 2

The forum was bugged (even dev confirmed it, see face book for it). Gave a message ‘trying to go home’?

BECAUSE of that bug. I didnt read forums 6 days. The bug persistent until tuesday. Basically the last week before patch, forums were disabled for me. And I was supposed to know to turn them in? Would be nice to get short term option to use them.

Let’s face it, why are glory npc’s still around. Glory got removed also. Because Anet doesn’t want to screw over people. Same should be case here.

I agree posting in the forums is not enough. I have only been back to this game since the beginning of escape lions arch, and didnt realize I am required to check here or miss out. I look at all of the notifications on the launcher carefully and don’t understand why it could not of been posted there?

I did not get a chance to spend mine either and would really like to. Why didn’t I use mine? Because I was busy doing the boss fight trying to get Scarlets Kiss before the patch and didn’t think hey I should check the forums.

Zone.1275:

mtpelion.4562:

Kal Spiro.9745:

mtpelion.4562:

I would just like to state that the removal of things from the game should always be announced at least a week in advance on the GW2 launcher.

Personally, I check the forums all the time because I know how bad ArenaNet is with announcements, but you can’t fault new players for not knowing that yet.

I don’t fault new players for not knowing that. I just don’t think ANet should have to fix it for them just because they don’t.

My point is that in the same amount of time it took them to post it on the forums, they could have posted it on the news feed in the GW2 launcher and would have ensured that every one of their players had the news delivered to them (even if the players chose to ignore it, they couldn’t argue that they weren’t told).

Your screenshot is the best argument for putting the vendor back for a few days.

They don’t get that the forums are NOT read by most players – whenever I have in the last year plus said something I found on the forums, I am met with “I don’t read the forums.” by the score and more!

Address the communication issue where it belongs, Anet, at the hook screen.

Antaris.5281:

Kumu Honua.2751:

But it’s NOT buried.

It’s the very first post in the News and Announcements section. Under the stickies of course.

You people keep saying that. What IS buried is the post about keeping your blade shards as there will be a future use for them. That is an example of actual terrible communication by Anet.

You like GW2 forum, congratulation. Yet you keep ignoring the fact that forum activities are NOT mandatory for GW2 players.

Forums are indeed helpful, offer strategies, discussions, and player interactions, all sorts of good things. But here is the thing: THAT particular post, is NOT linked from anywhere, despite the importance of it.

Not launcher (personally I read it), not front page where it always have links to release notes, not facebook, not twitter, not YouTube, not google+ (heck, it even has a PvP glory phasing-out reminder posted on March 17), not LS Atlas. Only a post that forum frequent visitor will notice.

You’re wrong. Forum use IS mandatory if you want to be informed. This is the case with every MMO that has ever existed and probably will ever exist. If you want to know what is going on you HAVE to go to the forums. If you are unwilling to go to the forums then you are choosing to be uninformed and your choice is not a shield for your ignorance. Therefore if you lose anything for that choice it is your fault and no one else’s.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Antaris.5281:

Kumu Honua.2751:

But it’s NOT buried.

It’s the very first post in the News and Announcements section. Under the stickies of course.

You people keep saying that. What IS buried is the post about keeping your blade shards as there will be a future use for them. That is an example of actual terrible communication by Anet.

You like GW2 forum, congratulation. Yet you keep ignoring the fact that forum activities are NOT mandatory for GW2 players.

Forums are indeed helpful, offer strategies, discussions, and player interactions, all sorts of good things. But here is the thing: THAT particular post, is NOT linked from anywhere, despite the importance of it.

Not launcher (personally I read it), not front page where it always have links to release notes, not facebook, not twitter, not YouTube, not google+ (heck, it even has a PvP glory phasing-out reminder posted on March 17), not LS Atlas. Only a post that forum frequent visitor will notice.

You’re wrong. Forum use IS mandatory if you want to be informed. This is the case with every MMO that has ever existed and probably will ever exist. If you want to know what is going on you HAVE to go to the forums. If you are unwilling to go to the forums then you are choosing to be uninformed and your choice is not a shield for your ignorance. Therefore if you lose anything for that choice it is your fault and no one else’s.

No. Forum use is not mandatory, or you would have 3 million page views on the forum…there are more than 20,000 players on all the servers combined world-wide. Forum use is not mandatory…

If they are trying to make it mandatory…that is a different story…and then maybe they should put an in-game message explaining where the forums are (I have friends who after a year of playing didn’t even know there WERE official forums)…as well as how to use them. They have in-game links to the support page. Put an in-game link to the forum announcements…and then when they post a forum announcement put an exclamation mark on that…which then tells people to click the link….which then gives them the announcement…. At that point…the forums become mandatory.

I’m sorry the Heirlooms you’ve been hoarding didn’t turn into Precursors.

It is common reasoning that with every patch of a Living Story ending, involved NPCs will be REMOVED (especially when the means of getting a certain tokens are forever removed). The heirloom merchant has been there for TWO whole living story.

Forums or not.
Common sense tells you to trade-in everything you have while you can.
Never heard of – ‘Better to be Safe than Sorry’ ?

What communication issues?

Past event, past living stories…
As it all ends, so does the NPCs involved for tokens trade-ins.
I believe the notion of “This Living Story/Event is ENDING!! Go trade all the tokens you’ve accumulated WHILE YOU CAN!!!” is pretty much a common understanding communicated through out since 2012.

Sure, it doesn’t hurt to bring back Heirloom merchant.

One week later?

“Hey, I knew they brought back Heirloom merchant but I was busy clearing maps and finishing achievements now we have a break from Living Story so I couldn’t trade them in, I really wanted to.

I didn’t read the forums and Anet did not communicate well with the players when it will be removed.

Please bring it back again. It would hurt no one."

The biggest problem with information distribution via forums is that usage of the forum is limited to about 5-10% of the total playerbase, depending on the game.

The launcher is seen by 100% of the playerbase, making it the ideal candidate for information distribution. Even if a player selects “auto-play” (which honestly should be removed in the event information was being distributed via the launcher), they still had the information broadcasted directly onto their screen, at which point it would be on the player for being ignorant, as opposed to being on ArenaNet.

I’m not calling for them to add back the merchants (though I would have no problem if they did; I cashed all my stuff in in advance and told my guild to do the same), I’m calling for them to start using their communication tool correctly in order to ensure that threads like this never need to be started.

mtpelion.4562:

The biggest problem with information distribution via forums is that usage of the forum is limited to about 5-10% of the total playerbase, depending on the game.

The launcher is seen by 100% of the playerbase, making it the ideal candidate for information distribution. Even if a player selects “auto-play” (which honestly should be removed in the event information was being distributed via the launcher), they still had the information broadcasted directly onto their screen, at which point it would be on the player for being ignorant, as opposed to being on ArenaNet.

I’m not calling for them to add back the merchants (though I would have no problem if they did; I cashed all my stuff in in advance and told my guild to do the same), I’m calling for them to start using their communication tool correctly in order to ensure that threads like this never need to be started.

Okay, I just got the “this page doesn’t exist yet…please go back home” error which so many people have gotten over the last week…good thing I knew how to get rid of it or I might not have gotten a “mandatory” message here on the forums.

Communication is the problem. I also, could care less if the vendors come back, but I am arguing for all the people that did not get the communication that was seen by 0.6% of the population of Tyria (20,000 views out of 3 million copies of the game).

And that 20,000 views is after a week of everyone pointing out that post to everyone. How many views did it have on Monday? 10,000? That would be 0.3% (.003 of the player base).

Had the posted it on the logon screen (viewable by 100% of players whether they read it or not), or sent an in-game mail (100% of users found out their WvW points were refunded that way) I would be arguing WITH Kal and the others…that people need to deal with it. But they didn’t do that.

They NEED to learn to communicate changes to players. Someone said that they always take the vendors when a LS ends….that is actually not true. I cannot think of a single currency that was created during a LS that is still not vendorable. You can even still turn in southsun tickets to the ticket vendor in southsun cove (he is still standing there), even though those haven’t dropped since the Karka Queen release. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consortium_Arms_Dealer

And as such, the vendors should be brought back to let those players use their currency…or at least added to Sondor, or the new merchant.

Moshari.8570:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Antaris.5281:

Kumu Honua.2751:

But it’s NOT buried.

It’s the very first post in the News and Announcements section. Under the stickies of course.

You people keep saying that. What IS buried is the post about keeping your blade shards as there will be a future use for them. That is an example of actual terrible communication by Anet.

You like GW2 forum, congratulation. Yet you keep ignoring the fact that forum activities are NOT mandatory for GW2 players.

Forums are indeed helpful, offer strategies, discussions, and player interactions, all sorts of good things. But here is the thing: THAT particular post, is NOT linked from anywhere, despite the importance of it.

Not launcher (personally I read it), not front page where it always have links to release notes, not facebook, not twitter, not YouTube, not google+ (heck, it even has a PvP glory phasing-out reminder posted on March 17), not LS Atlas. Only a post that forum frequent visitor will notice.

You’re wrong. Forum use IS mandatory if you want to be informed. This is the case with every MMO that has ever existed and probably will ever exist. If you want to know what is going on you HAVE to go to the forums. If you are unwilling to go to the forums then you are choosing to be uninformed and your choice is not a shield for your ignorance. Therefore if you lose anything for that choice it is your fault and no one else’s.

No. Forum use is not mandatory, or you would have 3 million page views on the forum…there are more than 20,000 players on all the servers combined world-wide. Forum use is not mandatory…

If they are trying to make it mandatory…that is a different story…and then maybe they should put an in-game message explaining where the forums are (I have friends who after a year of playing didn’t even know there WERE official forums)…as well as how to use them. They have in-game links to the support page. Put an in-game link to the forum announcements…and then when they post a forum announcement put an exclamation mark on that…which then tells people to click the link….which then gives them the announcement…. At that point…the forums become mandatory.

No, it just means that the majority of players are willfully ignorant. I’ll assume you’re not a long term MMO player, and that many of them also are not. If you were you would already know this. Disregarding it, or disagreeing with it, doesn’t make it untrue.

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

rhamnosia.7692:

I’m sorry the Heirlooms you’ve been hoarding didn’t turn into Precursors.

It is common reasoning that with every patch of a Living Story ending, involved NPCs will be REMOVED (especially when the means of getting a certain tokens are forever removed). The heirloom merchant has been there for TWO whole living story.

Forums or not.
Common sense tells you to trade-in everything you have while you can.
Never heard of – ‘Better to be Safe than Sorry’ ?

What communication issues?

Past event, past living stories…
As it all ends, so does the NPCs involved for tokens trade-ins.
I believe the notion of “This Living Story/Event is ENDING!! Go trade all the tokens you’ve accumulated WHILE YOU CAN!!!” is pretty much a common understanding communicated through out since 2012

It is not common sense to remove vendors right with event ending. It doesn’t happen all the times of living story and it’s not happening in other mmos.
So the common sense tell players that vendors would stay for some time more to cash in leftover tokens. And it doesnt even occured to ppl that it can be other way, so they should ask about it.

ZilentNight.5089:

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

How is taking five seconds to click on the News and Announcement forum on the Monday before a patch to see if there is a new post “Hunting Down” information?

Using the forums is mandatory IF you want to be informed. If you are unwilling to go to the forums you obviously do not want to be informed. If you do not want to be informed then you have no one to blame but yourself for being uninformed.

ANet has done their due diligence. Your entire argument is invalid, and that is what makes it untrue, not my disagreement, nor my disregarding it.

Just wait for the new merchant who wants your blade shards and other relics of the living story. I’m sure they (he/she) will want your found belongings/pieces of cyphers/ heirlooms/ shards/ and maybe even sprockets who knows. Yeah they take up crap tons of space. But you didn’t come to the forums until it was time to complain. When even on the website and even the log in it said check the site for information. It’s living world…

It’s like going to the fair/ carnival…. You wanted to turn in your paper tickets for a prize but you waited till the last day as they were closed and you didn’t. Now you want the fair/carnival to come back so you can? Just because you didn’t do your part of it? Sorry nope.

Kal Spiro.9745:

ZilentNight.5089:

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

How is taking five seconds to click on the News and Announcement forum on the Monday before a patch to see if there is a new post “Hunting Down” information?

Using the forums is mandatory IF you want to be informed. If you are unwilling to go to the forums you obviously do not want to be informed. If you do not want to be informed then you have no one to blame but yourself for being uninformed.

ANet has done their due diligence. Your entire argument is invalid, and that is what makes it untrue, not my disagreement, nor my disregarding it.

Did you bother reading my statement?
The announcement about trading Belongings was made more than a week into the patch, I clearly mention that when i stated, “relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.”

If information was posted in the patch notes itself then yes I would agree that its posted consistently at the same time and no surprises come along the way that can lead to a major loss for many players.

So its not the question about whether players want to be informed or not, the method of communication is being questioned here. There is no point arguing something you are not comprehending.

ZilentNight.5089:

Kal Spiro.9745:

ZilentNight.5089:

Forums are not mandatory, most players don’t have the time to go outside the game and read various threads and hunt for relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.

All communication should be done in game specially information that is so time sensitive. I am sure it has been mentioned a ton of times even by Devs that an extremely small minority checks these forums.
Disregarding the above fact or disagreeing with the it, doesn’t make it untrue.

How is taking five seconds to click on the News and Announcement forum on the Monday before a patch to see if there is a new post “Hunting Down” information?

Using the forums is mandatory IF you want to be informed. If you are unwilling to go to the forums you obviously do not want to be informed. If you do not want to be informed then you have no one to blame but yourself for being uninformed.

ANet has done their due diligence. Your entire argument is invalid, and that is what makes it untrue, not my disagreement, nor my disregarding it.

Did you bother reading my statement?
The announcement about trading Belongings was made more than a week into the patch, I clearly mention that when i stated, “relevant information that gets posted at an arbitrary time into a patch.”

If information was posted in the patch notes itself then yes I would agree that its posted consistently at the same time and no surprises come along the way that can lead to a major loss for many players.

So its not the question about whether players want to be informed or not, the method of communication is being questions here. There is no point arguing something you are not comprehending.

Yes, and it is STILL THERE. Therefore, anyone who bothered to take five whole seconds to poke their nose into the News and Announcements forum (the forum where you should go FIRST when looking for important information pertaining to the game) on the Monday before the patch would have found it immediately and known what was there.

That is not hunting down random bits of information. That is spending the minimum amount of time going to the most obvious place on the forums to find information about anything that might be important to know just before a game changing patch. This is not an unreasonable effort to expend, and all that was necessary for anyone who actually cared.

Anyone who did not do this did not care, and too bad for them. Now, before you ask again, yes, I read that entire post. This one I ignored completely because I’m done with this. You don’t get it, and I don’t care. This is the way it is, and it’s not going to change. Nor is there any reason for it to change. ANet is not listening.

No one is asking you to change nor any care is given on my end regarding heedless opinions. Anet is always listening and reading forums – That is the idea behind forums.
It is a channel for players to communicate to the devs and vice versa, it should only contain discussions and concerns about various topics. Which is the whole point of this thread.
Announcements that affect time sensitive in-game content should be relayed in-game via the login page or through mass-mail system present once again “in-game.”

I do read the forums, read the news, etc.
I never saw any notice about the heirloom vendors going away.
you should put notices of this nature in the game where more than 100 people will actually see them.
I’m going to go actively look for this notice. I’m curious how long it will take me – and I’ll be looking for it, not just happen to stumble upon it. If I don’t come back, send out a search party!

Mystic.5934:

I do read the forums, read the news, etc.
I never saw any notice about the heirloom vendors going away.
you should put notices of this nature in the game where more than 100 people will actually see them.
I’m going to go actively look for this notice. I’m curious how long it will take me – and I’ll be looking for it, not just happen to stumble upon it. If I don’t come back, send out a search party!

Well, I just found it, took literally three seconds, because it was one second per click. I clicked on forum. I clicked on News and Announcements. I clicked on the very first post after the stickied posts, without even reading it. And wouldn’t you know, that was the one. Really hard to find. That’s rough.

ZilentNight.5089:

No one is asking you to change nor any care is given on my end regarding heedless opinions. Anet is always listening and reading forums – That is the idea behind forums.
It is a channel for players to communicate to the devs and vice versa, it should only contain discussions and concerns about various topics. Which is the whole point of this thread.
Announcements that affect time sensitive in-game content should be relayed in-game via the login page or through mass-mail system present once again “in-game.”

And again you misunderstand. The way it is, is what isn’t going to change. The way it is being that if you want to learn about relevant information about the game you’re playing you have to go to the forums. It actually works just fine, regardless of the handful of people who fall prey to ignorance.

As for ANet, you’re right, they do read posts and threads. This one, though, is dead. There are only about five people keeping this thread alive. ANet has already gotten all the information they’re ever going to get out of this. The information they got was: a handful of people didn’t read the announcement and are upset, but it’s a tiny populations and not worth the effort to appease. They can be ignored, easily, without hurting the game in any way. This is what will happen, and why ANet is NOT listening.

The only thing that is left for this thread, only 6 pages in, is for name calling and mud slinging to commence and for it to be closed by a mod, who is not a dev, but is a red name.

I see they posted it in the same spot where they spam billing maintenance notices.
You would think “News and Announcements” would be a good thing to read when it’s not greyed out, and you’d be wrong. 90% of posts there are about not being able to buy gems for 2 hours on such-and-such day. I stopped read anything from there around october.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Mystic.5934:

I do read the forums, read the news, etc.
I never saw any notice about the heirloom vendors going away.
you should put notices of this nature in the game where more than 100 people will actually see them.
I’m going to go actively look for this notice. I’m curious how long it will take me – and I’ll be looking for it, not just happen to stumble upon it. If I don’t come back, send out a search party!

Well, I just found it, took literally three seconds, because it was one second per click. I clicked on forum. I clicked on News and Announcements. I clicked on the very first post after the stickied posts, without even reading it. And wouldn’t you know, that was the one. Really hard to find. That’s rough.

Right. You, and I both know how to use the forum because we are part of the well-informed minority of players who use the forum regularly.

The problem is that there is nothing in game that would have triggered the majority of players to go onto the forums and then go onto the News section in order to find that information.

ArenaNet provided the information, but they did not do it in a way that:
A. Alerts any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the posting of the information and
B. Informs any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the location of that information.

ArenaNet has previously admitted that they are bad at communicating this kind of information. While I’m glad that they are making the effort to at least get it out there (whereas before they just didn’t say anything at all), I’m also pointing out that they still have a LOT of room to improve and I’m offering a helpful suggestion as to how.

This has been the extent of my “constructive criticism” on this topic.

Mystic.5934:

I see they posted it in the same spot where they spam billing maintenance notices.
You would think “News and Announcements” would be a good thing to read when it’s not greyed out, and you’d be wrong. 90% of posts there are about not being able to buy gems for 2 hours on such-and-such day. I stopped read anything from there around october.

And that is why you have an inventory full of junk.

Kal Spiro.9745:

….snipped….

The information they got was: a handful of people didn’t read the announcement and are upset, but it’s a tiny populations and not worth the effort to appease. They can be ignored, easily, without hurting the game in any way. This is what will happen, and why ANet is NOT listening.

The only thing that is left for this thread, only 6 pages in, is for name calling and mud slinging to commence and for it to be closed by a mod, who is not a dev, but is a red name.

If that is the only information they got…then they are in for more problems than I can possibly imagine. As I have pointed out: as of Two days after the patch…their “post” had 20,000 views….and that was after being repeatedly pointed to by you and everyone else. They have 3 million + games sold…so a potential player base of 3,000,000 Now if even 1/2 of those no longer play that is 1,500,000 players…where only 20,000 have read the post after two days of it repeatedly being thrown at every player who has come to the forums to complain.

So as you say 5-6 people are keeping this thread alive…but even we do not represent even a tiny fraction of the player base….but someone has to represent the player base and I can tell you for certain that you and the others who are saying “I read the forum therefore I knew about this and you lose” represent less than 20,000 players…since I and my other fellows here also clicked on that link. Meanwhile, we represent a minimum of 1,480,000 players who did not see the announcement and that is only if 50% are still playing the game…it might be higher than that!

Bad way of communicating is shown by facts not supposition that “forums are mandatory”

mtpelion.4562:

Right. You, and I both know how to use the forum because we are part of the well-informed minority of players who use the forum regularly.

The problem is that there is nothing in game that would have triggered the majority of players to go onto the forums and then go onto the News section in order to find that information.

ArenaNet provided the information, but they did not do it in a way that:
A. Alerts any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the posting of the information and
B. Informs any meaningful portion of the playerbase to the location of that information.

ArenaNet has previously admitted that they are bad at communicating this kind of information. While I’m glad that they are making the effort to at least get it out there (whereas before they just didn’t say anything at all), I’m also pointing out that they still have a LOT of room to improve and I’m offering a helpful suggestion as to how.

This has been the extent of my “constructive criticism” on this topic.

Mostly I don’t like supporting the potential results of changing the situation.

-increased effort to inform the lazy. Making ANet put in effort and manpower to reproduce information because people can’t be bothered to put in a minimum effort.

-succumbing to the youthful need for instant gratification. Having to literally shove it in our faces because a subsection can’t step back and actually seek information on their own.

-add clutter. Filling up my mailbox with junk, cluttering the front page, blasting my phone with social media announcements, again because people can’t just look at the forums.

I’m a fan of very tough love, and strict teaching. I’m rigid and I don’t bend easily, but nor do I break. If it was good enough for me when I was a kid I see no reason it shouldn’t still be good enough now. Just go to the kitten ed forum, or lose out.

Moshari.8570:

So as you say 5-6 people are keeping this thread alive…but even we do not represent even a tiny fraction of the player base

This is why statistics are hard. We do represent the population. Our representation is so low, though, as to not be worth noting. The resulting solution is, this isn’t a big enough problem to worry about.

Again, we will call him Player Bob. Player Bob logs in Tuesday after a few days off and sees the vendors are gone. He looks into it and sees an official message stating that these items are now just taking up inventory space. Not happy because maybe he didn’t know in advance he goes ahead and deletes these items as per the message saying they are now worthless.

Now say Anet brings the vendors back. Player Bob was told those items were useless so he deleted them. How do you think he will feel now? He might be angry because he deleted items he was told were now junk and suddenly they are not junk anymore. So how do you please Player Bob and all the others like him that did the same based on information provided by Anet?

Arguing communication issues is one thing. However, this is a case that what is done is done. There really isn’t a way to fix it because doing something to appease the, “But I didn’t know,” crowd will in turn bring about anger from other players that followed the information provided from Anet saying the items are now junk. They logged in found out Anet said they are garbage items and deleted them.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Moshari.8570:

So as you say 5-6 people are keeping this thread alive…but even we do not represent even a tiny fraction of the player base

This is why statistics are hard. We do represent the population. Our representation is so low, though, as to not be worth noting. The resulting solution is, this isn’t a big enough problem to worry about.

I would still argue that your representation (20,000 people who viewed and dealt with their heirlooms at maximum) is far lower than my representation (anywhere from 20,000 to 3,000,000 players). Which is why I still wonder why you argue so adamantly against even the discussion of it.

If no one talks about it, then the masses lose. I was raised to believe that hard work means something and that if you put in the time, you should get the reward. This is why I fight so hard whenever ANET (or anyone else) tries to take away earned equity without even barely attempting communication to the people that will be affected.

Those players earned that equity by playing the game….by doing the event…but then to have the vendor where they can spend that equity removed without an attempt to even reach one 10th of that population is simply not right and should not be condoned by “you snooze you lose”.

I know a lot of players who still have not come to these forums who are keeping their items because of the new merchant mentioned in the patch notes. They will not be really hurt until that vendor appears and they are not there. I hold out hope that me speaking on their behalf here will make ANET consider putting the heirlooms and belongings on that vendor as well. I am not so Crass as to believe that they simply will not listen at all.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Again, we will call him Player Bob. Player Bob logs in Tuesday after a few days off and sees the vendors are gone. He looks into it and sees an official message stating that these items are now just taking up inventory space. Not happy because maybe he didn’t know in advance he goes ahead and deletes these items as per the message saying they are now worthless.

Now say Anet brings the vendors back. Player Bob was told those items were useless so he deleted them. How do you think he will feel now? He might be angry because he deleted items he was told were now junk and suddenly they are not junk anymore. So how do you please Player Bob and all the others like him that did the same based on information provided by Anet?

Arguing communication issues is one thing. However, this is a case that what is done is done. There really isn’t a way to fix it because doing something to appease the, “But I didn’t know,” crowd will in turn bring about anger from other players that followed the information provided from Anet saying the items are now junk. They logged in found out Anet said they are garbage items and deleted them.

This argument is old: Trogdor, out of 20,000 views, that is 20,000 players…how many were before the patch (maybe 10,000??) so those 10,000 used up their items…and maybe told their 5 friends so 50,000 used them….now another 10,000 saw the post after the patch…and for argument….lets include all of them in your example. So all 10,000 (including myself and everyone else who posted here in the forums) deleted all of our items and told all of our friends to do the same…so another 50,000 deleted everything.

Now, lets look at the patch notes…which were linked on the splash screen (and dulfy’s, etc)…which mentioned a new merchant that would allow you to trade in past event items….that was seen by a potential 3,000,000 players. 100,000 of which we accounted for in our example above (and this is being extremely generous)…so 2,900,000 people could still be holding items hoping that that new merchant allows them to exchange.

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what? I have no idea. To ANET doing the right thing for its players? Those players played the content that ANET provided…they need to be able to get the reward for that content.

What my point was from the two posts above is that we might not actually see a lot of angry players until the new merchant arrives and they cannot turn in their heirlooms or belongings.

Kal is right, we here in the forum represent a tiny fraction of the population, which makes it our responsibility to try and help the masses…

Do I honestly think that ANET will do the right thing? No, actually I don’t…I was one of the people arguing on the fractal reset and we didn’t hear squat from ANET for the full 30 days and hundreds of pages of threads….and nothing was ever done. The fact that not a single ANET person has bothered to post a single thing in this thread tells me that this is another situation exactly like that one.

But I have to try…as I stated above, I firmly believe that ANET needs to stop taking away earned equity from players…in all forms. THAT is a slipperly slope that needs to be nipped in the bud immediately. These players earned those items…they should get the chance to use them. Had ANET made a valid attempt to communicate to the 3,000,000 players they potentially have I would be fine with it. But they did not as is shown by the facts here.

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Again, we will call him Player Bob. Player Bob logs in Tuesday after a few days off and sees the vendors are gone. He looks into it and sees an official message stating that these items are now just taking up inventory space. Not happy because maybe he didn’t know in advance he goes ahead and deletes these items as per the message saying they are now worthless.

Now say Anet brings the vendors back. Player Bob was told those items were useless so he deleted them. How do you think he will feel now? He might be angry because he deleted items he was told were now junk and suddenly they are not junk anymore. So how do you please Player Bob and all the others like him that did the same based on information provided by Anet?

Arguing communication issues is one thing. However, this is a case that what is done is done. There really isn’t a way to fix it because doing something to appease the, “But I didn’t know,” crowd will in turn bring about anger from other players that followed the information provided from Anet saying the items are now junk. They logged in found out Anet said they are garbage items and deleted them.

This argument is old:

I’ve got another old argument for you, since you seem to like to cherry pick what you’re respond to. You never took the bait on this one, I wonder if you will now

Kal Spiro.9745:

Moshari.8570:

in case ANET changes their mind.

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Kal Spiro.9745:

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

[/quote]

Fine, there are a lot to choose from: off the top of my head: “Karma jugs can no longer be used with Karma Multipliers” was a post made in the forums right before a patch…it was also included in the patch notes (much better communication than this last time)….the very next patch (2 weeks later). “Karma jugs can once more be used with Karma multipliers for the next 2 weeks at which point this ability will be removed once more.” Or how about “PVP Levels are being removed in the upcoming patch” followed about 2 weeks later with “After recieving a huge response from our players, we have decided to leave PVP levels as they are.” or..lets see, something more recent….how about “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” followed by after complaints by players we have decided to forgoe this change and have re-set it so that you do not need level 14 in WvW….followed by “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” in the most recent patch.

Moshari.8570:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Which they don’t do lightly. I know you’ve pointed out a handful of times where reality and statement haven’t entirely meshed, but could you name one time in which they flipped on something they specifically stated would be a thing, within a single month of that statement being made?

Fine, there are a lot to choose from: off the top of my head: “Karma jugs can no longer be used with Karma Multipliers” was a post made in the forums right before a patch…it was also included in the patch notes (much better communication than this last time)….the very next patch (2 weeks later). “Karma jugs can once more be used with Karma multipliers for the next 2 weeks at which point this ability will be removed once more.” Or how about “PVP Levels are being removed in the upcoming patch” followed about 2 weeks later with “After recieving a huge response from our players, we have decided to leave PVP levels as they are.” or..lets see, something more recent….how about “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” followed by after complaints by players we have decided to forgoe this change and have re-set it so that you do not need level 14 in WvW….followed by “Gift of Battle now requires level 14 in WvW” in the most recent patch.

I commend you for your diligence.

So, we have one instance in which their announcement was not given enough time to percolate. So they tacked on some time because, unlike this announcement a full week before the patch, they felt we didn’t have sufficient forewarning.

Then two instances of overwhelming response by the community, of which this cannot be compared in any way.

Again, not a thing they do lightly. This particular issue, though, would be considered pretty light.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Your going to stick with this argument until you die aren’t you. Regardless of every fact.

I also believe you are a troll since you haven’t read a single post I have written…because otherwise you would try something new…not to mention the “It is all about me and what I want” comment…had you read my posts at all, you would see not at a single point have I asked this for me. I could care less, I spent ALL of my heirlooms and most of my belongings….

Here is my argument so you don’t have to go back and read anything: “ANET failed in its communication by only communicating to .3% of the population about removing earned equity of that player. This is shown by facts (20,000 views of a post out of 3,000,000 players). I really believe that those players (again, myself not included…see above statements) should have the ability to spend that earned equity since this change was not communicated to them. I believe that if it is not already in this new merchant, it should be added to this Merchant. In what way does helping out these players affect you….JustTrogdor.7892 to the point that you would deny them that chance. Are YOU willing to hurt 2,980,000 players (minus the 20,000 that saw the post) for the sake of that percentage of the 20,000 that maybe read it after the patch and deleted their items?”

I will no longer respond to you if you do not do me the courtesy of at least reading what I write.

You do understand that not just people who actually read the post are aware of things that happen, right? One person reads the post, then they go ingame, then someone inevitably asks in Map chat about whatever random thing, and wouldn’t you know someone is available to answer. Now everyone in map chat is aware of this, and can spread it to the next map when the next person inevitably asks as well.

This is why they gave it a week to disseminate, and why the item about karma was redacted. This is also why the argument is completely valid, and why your math is way off.

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Your going to stick with this argument until you die aren’t you.

Yes because it is a very valid argument. If they bring the vendors back people that deleted items based on the fact that the items are now junk would be unhappy. Think about it for a minute. I guarantee you many people have deleted those items once they learned they were worthless.

I don’t quote the rest of your stuff because it is all a bunch of numbers about thread read counts and speculation based on that. None of which negates the fact that people may have deleted these items based on learning they were useless. You have made it very clear that your point of view is what is most important and the impact it might have on others is not important to you.

Oh, and I can’t verify but I think thread view count only includes those logged in that read the thread. So all those that came to the forum and read it while not logged in will not show in the count.

Edit: As a test I logged out and viewed a few threads in the Audio forum because I never read them. The view count did not increase after I did so. I logged back in and the same threads still had the same view count as before I viewed them. I don’t think the view counter is accurate at all.

While I admit that Anet should provide more information in game, there’s only so much they can do before all players get overwhelmed. For instance:

Should Anet provide patch notes in your in-game mail, or just link it to the forums? If it’s in-game, my mail box would be riddled with a wall of small text. Linking to the Official forums is the best course. If you play on a computer that can’t access a web browser, you’re doing it wrong.

Should Anet provide your in-game mail for every update or change that will be made? I feel only game related mails that point players to story advancement should be there.

So if we eliminate the in-game mail system for spreading news and updates, what other option is there? Put it in the UI? NO. Big fat N.O. There’s enough clutter with LS events on the top right of my screen. I do not need anymore drop down boxes for new and announcements. Or how about an NPC that provides updates? That would require players to intentionally seek out this NPC on the map, and click on him. It would be more convenient to just Alt+Tab to your browser and visit the website.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

While I admit that Anet should provide more information in game, there’s only so much they can do before all players get overwhelmed. For instance:

Should Anet provide patch notes in your in-game mail, or just link it to the forums? If it’s in-game, my mail box would be riddled with a wall of small text. Linking to the Official forums is the best course. If you play on a computer that can’t access a web browser, you’re doing it wrong.

Should Anet provide your in-game mail for every update or change that will be made? I feel only game related mails that point players to story advancement should be there.

So if we eliminate the in-game mail system for spreading news and updates, what other option is there? Put it in the UI? NO. Big fat N.O. There’s enough clutter with LS events on the top right of my screen. I do not need anymore drop down boxes for new and announcements. Or how about an NPC that provides updates? That would require players to intentionally seek out this NPC on the map, and click on him. It would be more convenient to just Alt+Tab to your browser and visit the website.

Actually, I probably would have been satisfied if it had been in the patch notes from the previous patch. Patch notes are always linked in the login screen when they are released. That hits every single player. Now if you were to argue it is their own fault for not reading those….I would agree with you. Because then it is entirely on the player to read the thing that was thrown right in front of them. It’s actually been shown that far more people read the patch notes than read the forums…or posted it not only in the “news” section, but also in the “battle for lions arch” section in addition to the patch notes. A lot of people don’t read the “news” section unless there is a problem.

They used in-game mail to tell me about WvW point reset…but I agree I do not want to be spammed for everything like that.

As I said, I really just want ANET to start taking player earned equity seriously and to think about it before they do things.

I also still think that we won’t see a lot of angry players until this new merchant arrives and people still cant’ use their heirlooms or belongings….I know most of my guild-mates are holding onto that hope…but they don’t come here.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Your going to stick with this argument until you die aren’t you.

Yes because it is a very valid argument. If they bring the vendors back people that deleted items based on the fact that the items are now junk would be unhappy. Think about it for a minute. I guarantee you many people have deleted those items once they learned they were worthless.

I don’t quote the rest of your stuff because it is all a bunch of numbers about thread read counts and speculation based on that. None of which negates the fact that people may have deleted these items based on learning they were useless. You have made it very clear that your point of view is what is most important and the impact it might have on others is not important to you.

You just proved his point that you are not reading his posts..
Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now, and also now we have large amunt of players angry at ANet for making a mistake by removing vendors so soon and another mistake for not communicating it good enough. Bringing vendors back would correct that mistake, while it would not create another one, It will create a few ppl that would be angry that they listened to ANet and deleted their belongings. So it’s either left their mistake and have a lot of players angry, or correct that mistake and have only a little bunch of players angry.

Moshari.8570:

They NEED to learn to communicate changes to players. Someone said that they always take the vendors when a LS ends….that is actually not true. I cannot think of a single currency that was created during a LS that is still not vendorable. You can even still turn in southsun tickets to the ticket vendor in southsun cove (he is still standing there), even though those haven’t dropped since the Karka Queen release. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consortium_Arms_Dealer

The Captain’s Council Commendations are no longer tradeable; they do have a history of often (but not always) making such drops unusable shortly after the LS chapter ends. I’m still unhappy about the commendations (I was torn trying to decide which character to use them for, since the items were soul-bound on acquire, and then it was too late), but at least they provided some notice, and then extended the time.

In this case — I turned in almost all my found belongings and heirlooms — but I did miss a few. In general, I think it a very poor user experience to delete the vendor in the same update that you make the items stop dropping — I think there should be a period (1-2 weeks) while the vendor sticks around.

There are lots of fairly obvious reasons why this would be a better user experience; but I get the impression that people defending ANet’s behavior aren’t doing so because they like it, but rather as a reflexively loyal defense of a game they like.

I don’t mind missing out on my last 100 found belongings/1 tome of knowledge; so it goes. OTOH, I do think this is bad design for which there is no good justification. There should be some reasonable gap between the last time the reward is given, and the last time it can be turned in.

Ponku.7925:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Moshari.8570:

why shouldn’t we ask for ANET to at least put these into that merchant that has not yet arrived….I have yet to see a valid reason other than “it sets a bad precedent” to what?

Because the people that found out they had inventory slots with items that are now worthless and deleted them. How is it fair to them all of a sudden? I get it, you are in the “It is all about me and what I want,” mindset. If they bring the vendors back I guarantee you there will be a thread similar to this but it will be, “I was told they were junk so I deleted them.”

Your going to stick with this argument until you die aren’t you.

Yes because it is a very valid argument. If they bring the vendors back people that deleted items based on the fact that the items are now junk would be unhappy. Think about it for a minute. I guarantee you many people have deleted those items once they learned they were worthless.

I don’t quote the rest of your stuff because it is all a bunch of numbers about thread read counts and speculation based on that. None of which negates the fact that people may have deleted these items based on learning they were useless. You have made it very clear that your point of view is what is most important and the impact it might have on others is not important to you.

You just proved his point that you are not reading his posts..
Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now, and also now we have large amunt of players angry at ANet for making a mistake by removing vendors so soon and another mistake for not communicating it good enough. Bringing vendors back would correct that mistake, while it would not create another one, It will create a few ppl that would be angry that they listened to ANet and deleted their belongings. So it’s either left their mistake and have a lot of players angry, or correct that mistake and have only a little bunch of players angry.

Where is this large amount of players. I don’t see them. I just see a couple people who can’t let things go.

I do not understand why these type of announcements aren’t made ‘in-game’. It could be a simple mail, or they could be creative with NPC’s/story lines. Being required to leave the game is mind-bogglingly counterintuitive.

I rarely visit the forums and when I do it’s usually prompted by an ‘in-game’ complaint. I, however, have been following this and the other threads on the same topic. I haven’t contributed to the conversation because my gaming is entertainment and I have zero time for trolls. These conversations almost always become life-consuming time sinks.

Thank you Moshari, Antaris and others for clearly stating the thoughts and concerns of pretty much everyone on my friends list.

Moshari.8570:

Actually, I probably would have been satisfied if it had been in the patch notes from the previous patch. Patch notes are always linked in the login screen when they are released. That hits every single player. Now if you were to argue it is their own fault for not reading those….I would agree with you. Because then it is entirely on the player to read the thing that was thrown right in front of them. It’s actually been shown that far more people read the patch notes than read the forums…or posted it not only in the “news” section, but also in the “battle for lions arch” section in addition to the patch notes. A lot of people don’t read the “news” section unless there is a problem.

They used in-game mail to tell me about WvW point reset…but I agree I do not want to be spammed for everything like that.

As I said, I really just want ANET to start taking player earned equity seriously and to think about it before they do things.

I also still think that we won’t see a lot of angry players until this new merchant arrives and people still cant’ use their heirlooms or belongings….I know most of my guild-mates are holding onto that hope…but they don’t come here.

Just to add, I received no in-game mail to explain that my traits were reset. I read the patch notes, but completely forgot about it. So as I was playing, I wondered why building/repairing took so long, why I got no Guard stacks, and why my Cata did so little damage to walls.

My fault completely.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Where is this large amount of players. I don’t see them. I just see a couple people who can’t let things go.

Observe the Omnisciens Macaque in his natural environment: the Forums exhibit. Alas, he is one of the few of his flying brethren still alive, for this Macaque is known to devour his own kind.

As the visitor peers into the Forums, the Omnisciens Macaque laughs at him for not visiting the forums, not refreshing the ever-changing Devtracker every two minutes and for not stalking Developer’s houses and wiretapping their every phone call. Reading the patch notes and applying logic from priori events are meaningless excuses to one of these superior beings.

Clearly the visitor to the Forums exhibit is an inferior species to the Omnisciens Macaque which has every right to deride and passively fling kittens (yes, real kittens) at him from the Forum exhibit.

((Seriously, the Forums is only a small representation (highly opinionated/biased portion) of the general population. The largest debacle was Ascended Gear to which this current kitten-storm (yes, a storm of cute kittens) is as a shower to a hurricane. Neither should the user stories of customers be shrugged off; they have qualitative feedback that Anet should consider when designing the next LS portion.))

Ponku.7925:

Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now...

How do you know that? Wait you don’t. If in some odd case you do know that as fact I’d love to see your data to support it. And even if it is a very few it doesn’t change the fact that they would be negatively affected if the vendors came back. Or are you saying they are so few that it shouldn’t matter?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Ponku.7925:

Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now...

How do you know that? Wait you don’t. If in some odd case you do know that as fact I’d love to see your data to support it.

I can confirm that I threw away all my left overs after the update hit.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Ponku.7925:

Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now...

How do you know that? Wait you don’t. If in some odd case you do know that as fact I’d love to see your data to support it.

I can confirm that I threw away all my left overs after the update hit.

And if the vendor comes back I can see where you would be unhappy because you threw them away based on an official message stating that they are now useless. I imagine you are not alone.

Well I hope there is a comprehensive merchant that will accept any and all collectible account bound items given out during Season 1.
It will make sense leaving that npc so players can trade and get rid of a ton of junk that has been accumulated.
While I do see the point that some players might have deleted some of these items already, One can only hope and this would be a good idea for Anet to keep this consistent merchant(s) going forward for future releases.

WhimsicalPacifist.2943:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Where is this large amount of players. I don’t see them. I just see a couple people who can’t let things go.

((Seriously, the Forums is only a small representation (highly opinionated/biased portion) of the general population. The largest debacle was Ascended Gear to which this current kitten-storm (yes, a storm of cute kittens) is as a shower to a hurricane. Neither should the user stories of customers be shrugged off; they have qualitative feedback that Anet should consider when designing the next LS portion.))

Welcome to the conversation. If you were following it, you’d already know how well aware everyone partaking of this debacle is of that very fact. But the portions divvy out. The point is, only a handful of the small population of those that come to the forums care enough to grumble about the situation. That small portion translates to an equally small portion of the total population. Still leaving us with an insignificant subset of the population, bellow notice.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Ponku.7925:

Your argument is not as valid as arguments about bringing vendors back. Very few ppl just deleted the items now...

How do you know that? Wait you don’t. If in some odd case you do know that as fact I’d love to see your data to support it. And even if it is a very few it doesn’t change the fact that they would be negatively affected if the vendors came back. Or are you saying they are so few that it shouldn’t matter?

I’ve shown you my data…show me yours.