Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Elbegast.6970

Elbegast.6970

I can’t go on playing. I log in, see that my personal and F&F story are incomplete and get so discouraged that I just log back out.

I couldn’t get enough of this game a week ago. I was having a blast. Once I realized that I had to do a group dungeon to finish the stories, I lost all motivation to play.

If every ‘living story’ and ‘personal story’ is going to end in a 5 man dungeon, I’m done with this game. I left WoW because I was sick of grouping up to complete content. I thought GW2 would be different. I guess I was wrong.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: catofnine.3194

catofnine.3194

This is seriously a bummer that the F&F storyline ends in a dungeon. Couldn’t log in last week due to real life, and now when I do find groups it’s filled with people who want to speed farm the snot out of the instance. I’ve still not completed it and likely have missed the window to experience it fully. Got in a group last night that got past the first boss and then wiped at the trash after. Group leader left the group and the whole thing reset….end of current group.

I didn’t read the rest of the thread, but dear A-Net team…next time just make a solo version of the dungeon (no boss loot) along side the group version. Solo players can experience the end of the story, group players get the extra bling. You can accommodate both solo and group players here, and it’s sort of sad to see you guys drop the ball on this one.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Blacklight.2871

Blacklight.2871

I can’t go on playing. I log in, see that my personal and F&F story are incomplete and get so discouraged that I just log back out.

I couldn’t get enough of this game a week ago. I was having a blast. Once I realized that I had to do a group dungeon to finish the stories, I lost all motivation to play.

If every ‘living story’ and ‘personal story’ is going to end in a 5 man dungeon, I’m done with this game. I left WoW because I was sick of grouping up to complete content. I thought GW2 would be different. I guess I was wrong.

The problem I have with it is that the game is deceptively solo-friendly for much of the leveling experience. There’s no indication that you’re suddenly going to be tossed into a 5-man instance at the end of YOUR PERSONAL story. It’s doubly irritating if you aren’t the one to launch the instance because you’ll end up being a bit player as someone wraps up THEIR epic saga. You get credit for it sure, but it’s no longer your story. Pretty lame way to end it and I’m still surprised that no one figured what an irritation this would be to players who might actually have immersed themselves in their stories.

The F&F end dungeon was expected, based on how so much else added to the game since release is group oriented. Doesn’t make it any more palatable to end a long running storyline that players could complete without the need to be joined at the hip to other players, with a climax that does require it, but it’s not unexpected.

ANet seems to like experimenting in social engineering with their players. Like maybe they can change the soloists perspective by enticing them into something over a few months, then requiring the final door to be opened by a full committee. It hasn’t worked with PvP (WvW maps and World Explorer) and it won’t work with group content. I’m sure they’ll keep trying though. After all, inside every gamer is a sociophiliac PvPer, waiting to come out, despite what we might say to the contrary.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: MrTastix.6842

MrTastix.6842

If every ‘living story’ and ‘personal story’ is going to end in a 5 man dungeon, I’m done with this game. I left WoW because I was sick of grouping up to complete content. I thought GW2 would be different. I guess I was wrong.

Congratulations! You’ve successfully discovered the multiplayer portion of this Massively Multiplayer Online Game! What’s your reward? More snark from yours truly!

The problem I have with it is that the game is deceptively solo-friendly for much of the leveling experience. There’s no indication that you’re suddenly going to be tossed into a 5-man instance at the end of YOUR PERSONAL story.

Whilst I actually agree with this in regards to your PERSONAL story, I don’t feel it’s the same for public events and the game in general.

It’s not a singleplayer game, for Christ’s sake. MMOs become nothing without at least a little social interaction. Why bother playing an MMO if you can get similar combat (and better, in most cases) from a singleplayer game that’ll offer you the solo-experience you so desire?

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

Congratulations! You’ve successfully discovered the multiplayer portion of this Massively Multiplayer Online Game! What’s your reward? More snark from yours truly!
[…]
It’s not a singleplayer game, for Christ’s sake. MMOs become nothing without at least a little social interaction. Why bother playing an MMO if you can get similar combat (and better, in most cases) from a singleplayer game that’ll offer you the solo-experience you so desire?

The problem with this shallow thinking, is that you imply that because they don’t like a 5-man dungeon cliche at the end of a non-dungeon event, you assume they don’t interact with the public, and thus ‘discovered the Multiplayer portion’ of the game, when in fact that I’m sure they understood that portion started by hitting ‘log in’. It means they interact with people in ‘MMO mode’ all the time, and enjoy it, or they’d not be playing. But they decide that 5-man dungeon runs of any kind isn’t fun to them. Uh oh. Now you think they’re anti social, because they belong to a guild, and help more then just 5 people on the field all the time, but avoid 5-man dungeon runs… Can’t assume they’re throwing out multi- interaction because they dislike 5-man dungeons… … Here’s some advice for ya’, Kid: “Elephants are grey. But not all grey things are elephants.” Can you understand what I just told you? Did you read this post successfully? Can you see how that advice is relevant to your line of thinking? … … …Didn’t think so.

So consider the following: “Bacon is tasty, and it is food. Therefore all food to me is tasty!” That last statement would be false, correct? It’s fine that you may like and agree with this dungeon. But others do not, and are just as valid as you. It’s good to come up with counter points that don’t rely on weak and rough generalization. Yes they solo, yes, they played the personal story. If they really are anti-social, then know that MMOs aren’t living worlds without living personalities. A true online community needs social as well as anti-social behavior, or it’s artificial. As for me, I’m both. Out going, but quiet. I party up one moment, then unwind by soloing another moment. If i played a single for that moment, then the fun of running into someone new in some way or another would be forfeit.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Faden Pain.4275

Faden Pain.4275

This is MMO, not Single Player game! Come on ppl!

Im hope in this dungeon, will be parts where party must cooperate, and final fight will looks like fight with frog in SAB, where we need some kind of strategy to win.

God, I wish you people (not you specifically) but all of “you” who continue to spout the “but its an MMO” mantra would just STFU.

I personally loathe this 5 man dungeon garbage. I DONT WANT to spend my leisure time waiting around for hours to get a group together, where maybe I might actually be in one where all of the group members actually stay in the group for the entire run!
I want to get in the game, and play the kitten game, not spend hours on end socializing, or simply waiting in town spamming LFG.

This 5 man BS was a horrible decision IMHO. I’ve finished my personal story, now I have nothing else to do, and have completely lost interest in the game simply because I cannot explore the dungeons, etc. What point is there in participating in the “living story” if the only way I can complete it is to group up for a dungeon?

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: StriderShinryu.6923

StriderShinryu.6923

From my perspective, it seems like there’s a decent bit of misconception on both sides of the coin.

For those claiming that “it’s an MMO; that means forced grouping!” I really don’t see that to be the case. At all, really. I can participate in random team play, chat with others in Lion’s Arch, do guild activities, RP, make use of the TP, participate in World Boss events and many other things any time I log in. All of these involve, and actually require, other players. In some cases, the more the better. None of them, however, are forced grouping for instanced dungeons. Just because you always have chocolate sauce on your bowl of ice cream doesn’t mean that every bowl of ice cream needs chocolate sauce.

On the anti grouping side, however, it seems many are viewing the group experience in GW2 through the lens of past negative experiences instead of what it actually is (at least as far as my personal experience goes, of course). Grouping in GW2, outside of Zerker only! speed runz, is not the painful life sucking harassment fostering experience that I was privy to elsewhere, especially in a dungeon designed for easy access. There do seem to be more than enough people interested in doing the dungeon from a solo perspective that several groups could likely be formed with everyone having the same goal. There wouldn’t be any need to deal with the random puggers or elitist speed runners if things were engaged with a little cooperation. No, it may not be exactly how you want to play the game, but it may not be anywhere near as bad as you think it will be.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: DoctorOverlord.8620

DoctorOverlord.8620

Reflecting on this, I suppose the bait and switch feel is one of the biggest things that bothers me about using a 5-man dungeon to conclude a storyline that starts out as wholly soloable. If the entire story was based solely on 5-man dungeons, then people who don’t like them would never see it and never care about it. But putting the story out so every single player can see it, then making it so only those who like doing dungeons can finish it is the kind of thing that goes against what I thought ArenaNet wanted to avoid with their game.

They said they didn’t want GW2 to suddenly change its gameplay when you hit the level cap, which is basically the same as saying they didn’t want to pull a bait and switch. Now this is a high-level design philosophy, not a specific reference to a single story arc, but that is the sort of thing you would expect to be applied throughout the game. It’s unfortunate that they don’t seem able to apply it to their presentation of the storyline.

It’s not a singleplayer game, for Christ’s sake. MMOs become nothing without at least a little social interaction. Why bother playing an MMO if you can get similar combat (and better, in most cases) from a singleplayer game that’ll offer you the solo-experience you so desire?

The problem with this shallow thinking, is that you imply that because they don’t like a 5-man dungeon cliche at the end of a non-dungeon event, you assume they don’t interact with the public, and thus ‘discovered the Multiplayer portion’ of the game, when in fact that I’m sure they understood that portion started by hitting ‘log in’.

Exactly, this old argument keeps getting brought up even though it is hardly applicable to modern MMOs and even less to GW2 which has dynamic events and level-scaled WvW which allows players to freely play with other players without ever needing to go through the hassle of making a 5-man group.

In previous MMOs, forced grouping was a requirement for almost all of their content. After years, the industry is finally realizing this is a serious flaw and fixing it.

Some complain this has made MMOs too ‘easy’ but they overlook the face that there are still challenges in MMOs. There are still hardcore players and difficult content for them to do.

The difference is that you don’t need to be a hardcore to simply log on to MMOs anymore. MMO players can now share the online experience with a much wider variety of players and far more of them. Frankly, I think that is being far truer to the term ‘Massively Multiplayer Online Game’ than past products which only appealed to a small, very niche segment of gamers.

Check my GW2 Comic Dynamic Events http://goo.gl/JyB3J (Short Google Link to Fan Content Forum here)

(edited by DoctorOverlord.8620)

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

The difference is that you don’t need to be a hardcore to simply log on to MMOs anymore. MMO players can now share the online experience with a much wider variety of players and far more of them. Frankly, I think that is being far truer to the term ‘Massively Multiplayer Online Game’ than past products which only appealed to a small, very niche segment of gamers.

Very true. And what’s also something for many to consider, is partying up is fun. But do you want a further challenge? Find a huge army-based group event in an area less populated… Solo it… Then you’ll know who the REAL hardcore player is. Anyone can party up and ace an event with teamwork, but how do you fare in a group event army alone as a class without portable punching bags to lessen the agro on your character. How about being tricky and soloing the 5-man dungeons. Most of you dungeon crawlers have a weak definition of ‘hardcore’ anyway. But setting that aside, there’s a diverse set of reasons this lifeless Instance is a killer to the entire living-story premise.

Did ya’ catch that Medina? I’ve been in their alone, to see if it was playable by just me and my wife. It might very well be if I can get her in at the right time. I soloed the first room pretty nicely, and then left. So far it seems like a creative piece of work… But for repetitive “Groundhog Day” experience to be what lessens the ‘force’ of the Molten Alliance the world over is not immersive nor living… It’s silly. Now if the facility was say a 100-player instance without party formality, as an on going melee as a small but full subterranean map, then the little world bar on the side’d be justified. And if the instance capped at 100 people and created another instance, then maybe it’d make more sense: A mass group event… But there’s a whole gaggle of problems that’d be attached to that too. Lag being the main. And not as much more creative about a 4-day onslaught, just like the one-time event happening over and over and over to determine the power of an enemy isn’t a living story.

What you need is a living story that uses the map without all this sign fixing garbage leading up to an event dungeon that has no effect on the world what-so-ever… But… Uh oh… More issues arise there too, because now the world CAN’T change much without contradiction to personal story. If anything, the Personal Story will stifle any real attempt to make your world live in the long term. Heck… I’m quite frankly tired of seeing no resolution to the waves of Risen… It’ll always be new to the newbie, but eventually they too will see the cleansing of Orr and stopping of Zaitan pointless, having no impact on the world…

So your living events will continue to be one-time happenings along side epic final battles that happen over and over every 2 hours like the movie groundhog day, stuck in a time warp years before any ‘current’ events… We fight waves of Molten Alliance, so we can run them out of the world permanently, on the same map we’re running the Brothers of Svanir out of the world over and over and over, or Separatists opposing a treaty that’ll never get signed. These conflicts are bigger then you think. It’s more then just ending with a 5-man dungeon run… It’s the fact you’ve deviated away from the original plan to make this plastic barbie world breath. And forcing people to party up for story resolution, or the like, kills the point of “lets add something for everyone” and kills the chance of true community diversity.

By the way: Making the story lead up to being overrun by tunnle machines on the map, and a homestead being ransacked, only to end in a confined dungeon in some crevice in the world is VERY unclimactic. Holbrak and/or Black Citadel being overrun leaving a lasting mark on the world would be a lot more fun. But it’d have to be instanced again to be ‘newbie friendly’, and, well… These past few months show that a real living story is to much to ask. You’re better off just adding lengthy event chains to existing dynamic events, while adding more lengthy dynamic event chains that move throughout the world allowing people to see the world by following events… Oh, but wait, you can’t because all maps are walled off from each other. I will reverence the obvious work you kids have cut out for you for sure… But setting all that aside, congrats on the dungeon structure itself. Very creative…

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Fiontar.4695

Fiontar.4695

The fact is it’s not just disappointing for those who now will not see the four month Living Story to it’s conclusion, but it’s also sad to see old, failed MMO design philosophies taint and diminish a game that on so many other levels has made a point of doing away with them.

It completely obvious to anyone that if any MMO in the history of the genre could easily and efficiently transition away from dungeons with an arbitrary group size requirement into something much more flexible, it’s GW2. The game scales so well in so many ways that there is no technical excuse.

Instead, it is a failure on the part of some developers to be able to frame their approach to game design with in the paradigm shifting philosophies of the game they are working on. It’s sort of the intellectual equivalent of deciding that motor cars should be designed to accommodate horse rigging, or that cell phones need to be able to plug into a telephone jack, or that air planes should be built with sails.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Varonica.8307

Varonica.8307

Personally I am getting quite tired of the putdowns on here for anyone who doesn’t “love” dungeons, for the people who claim to be in an MMO for the social side of dungeongrouping it’s a rather hard claim to reconcile. Forced group dungeons are old school MMO, GW2 was claiming to be mold breaking, sadly it’s certainly not. Someone here also mentioned about the problem and lag involved with making the molten dungeon a group event, not so, even the areas we generally explore and adventure in, say queensdale, is no more than an instanced dungeon type area with everybody in a “super-party”, so no real problem there.

I also read responses on other threads with same, “if you want to solo go play a single player game” rhetoric. I could say to them, if you want to play a RAID style game go play WoW, but I won’t, there is room in GW2 for all styles of game play, but not if every personal story or living world event ends in a 5 man dungeon, and yes I agree the personal story does freeze the world somewhat, there is no major change that can be made without making the entire personal story for new player basically pointless, get rid of it, concentrate on real world changing events that fulfil the promise of the living world. Personally I thing the living story was tacked on out of fear, fear of breaking the mold to much, big mistake, that’s what we want, a truly innovative game, not just more of the same.

For instance I could say, in the entire time I have been playing not a single brick has moved in the Great Collapse. Now I am not asking for building to go up before my eyes, for the wall to rise as I watch, but surely with all the patches we have had something could be changed to at least make it look like something is actually happening, make it a truly living world..

Break the dungeon mold, sure leave them in for the dungeon runners, just don’t plop them is as game breakers, because that’s exactly what they are for some players.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

It’s okay everyone. The only thing you’re missing is the limited edition items. The dungeon, which is pretty, has a lot of cool ideas, shows dev philosophy of one who just graduated, and landed their first job. I got to the ‘Beavis & Butthead/Laural & Hardy’ type end boss… So we have a boss fight that seem to be structured after later 3D Super Mario/Zelda games, but with enough hit points to make all that ‘exciting’ dodging more frustrating. It can take some time to weaken them both, only to have the boss completely restart on a wrong move. Your party has to resurrect you ‘fast’ like, standing in mass fields of fire. So no one get downed! Oh. And they’re steampunk, no apperent teleport mechenism installed, but… even if you stun them, they’ll teleport aaaaaall the way to the other side of the arena, so that you have to go on tiny happy little mini quest across flame ridden board to attack them again. But at least they made them say adorably silly things. Yup. didn’t make the battle more insulting at all! … … very charming…

Either way, this entire thing was a miss. The story was okay, the dungeon beautiful, but making it more like ‘singleplayer’ styled story end requiring a party seemed like a gameplay conflict. Essentially though, if you hate dungeons for their repetition of waves of trash drones, bosses with enough HP to make you lose simply because you went over twenty minutes of mindless fighting to make those life-bars hit 0 then yeah, if you try it, more power to ya’. But i don’t recommend it. Some love the hacking away at a mob for a ‘twenty minute eternity’… Some love running dungeons for a few hours a run… Some like doing those runs times ‘X’ amount of times… Some simply have a lot of time to burn. This is what this game seems to be about now.

Anyhoo, I very much doubt that they’re reading this thread anymore guys. They made it obvious in their post on what kind of feedback they want. Just let it go. Suck up the time you wasted on the event, and move on.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Grundbulten.7216

Grundbulten.7216

I can’t go on playing. I log in, see that my personal and F&F story are incomplete and get so discouraged that I just log back out.

I couldn’t get enough of this game a week ago. I was having a blast. Once I realized that I had to do a group dungeon to finish the stories, I lost all motivation to play.

If every ‘living story’ and ‘personal story’ is going to end in a 5 man dungeon, I’m done with this game. I left WoW because I was sick of grouping up to complete content. I thought GW2 would be different. I guess I was wrong.

I’m starting to get that feeling as well.

Me and my friend has been trying to complete this story, but it just wont work. The enemies are too hard for two players and having someone join us didnt work either (a 20 minute long “lfp mf” spam resulted in a lv61 theif joining us)… Why couldnt these “dungeons” at least scale difficulty from 1 to 5 players? Or use a queue like matchmaking such as Aspenwood had in GW?
We have been through these LFG chat games a thousand times already and its getting really old! >:\

/a veteran GW fan

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

Personally I am getting quite tired of the putdowns on here for anyone who doesn’t “love” dungeons, for the people who claim to be in an MMO for the social side of dungeongrouping it’s a rather hard claim to reconcile. Forced group dungeons are old school MMO[…]

Now this being true, can possibly date at the start of the third or so year of Ultima Online. In it’s first year mostly, it was marketed as a freestyle living world. The ‘MMO’ there meant “A game with living souls as ambiance”. traveling with others was part of the experience as well as that lone bounty-hunter having a cold one at the bar. It was a play-style that was an option not frowned upon. Then BOOM! all of a sudden “If you’re playing alone in our online game, you’re a waste of server space”. Playing with players AT LEISURE is what these games are about for me. Anyhoo, good post. I agree with ya’. (Heh. UO was funny in the beta. Hostile animals usually attacking you only when their hunger level dropped to far. Then they’d dismember your corpse. But that’s a bit extreme for all these hardcore gamers. Might give ‘em nightmares or somepin’…) Oh well… I’m possibly gettin’ off topic, sooo… Anyhoo…

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Gill Halendt.2038

Gill Halendt.2038

So, after reading through this whole thread, I think I can safely assume that the “Multiplayer” part in MMO actually means “strictly a group of 5 or GTFO”.

Mkay…. Good to know, I thought I was playing a multiplayer game for just grouping with a couple of friends and interacting with people I met online…

Guess friends + random people in the open world doesn’t qualify as “multiplayer” anymore.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

So, after reading through this whole thread, I think I can safely assume that the “Multiplayer” part in MMO actually means “strictly a group of 5 or GTFO”.

Mkay…. Good to know, I thought I was playing a multiplayer game for just grouping with a couple of friends and interacting with people I met online…

Guess friends + random people in the open world doesn’t qualify as “multiplayer” anymore.

Short and sweet.

The truth in a nutshell. The original Guild Wars 2 premise we anticipated a few years before release is long lost. So has the true spirit of online RPGs. Thanks Everquest. Thanks World of Warcraft. Thanks Guild Wars 2. And most of all, I’d like to thank the fans who think confined dungeon cliches are the core of online game interaction. Couldn’t of been possible without you.

So yeah. Dunno any of this is going to help anymore. It’s just thread bumping now I think.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Vulpis.8063

Vulpis.8063

Anyhoo, I very much doubt that they’re reading this thread anymore guys. They made it obvious in their post on what kind of feedback they want. Just let it go. Suck up the time you wasted on the event, and move on.

Maybe. But between them doing the same garbage in the core content and not learning a thing from the complaints about it, and the indications that they’re just going to keep doing the same thing in future content…you kinda wonder what’s the point of playing, period.
And I was stupid enough to actually pay for this. I should have listened to my friends who refused to touch it after CoH got dumped. :-/

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Nosila.9860

Nosila.9860

Just thought I’d add my say.

I’ve played EQ and Wow and thought I’d finally found a game that ticked all the boxes with GW2.

Content that I could dip in and out of, that I could fit around my working schedule, and play with a friend when we both manage to get online at the same time.

I’ve enjoyed the Flame & Frost storyline upto the point where I found it ended in a dungeon. Dungeons have never been my thing, and being ablr to solo the whole of it until this point was a nice change, but I’m seriously rethinking about playing at all.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Josip.8267

Josip.8267

I don’t get what is the point of playing mmorpg if you don’t want to play with random people. If you want to play singleplayer game there is witcher, skyrim etc. And if you want to play only with your close friend there is bunch of coop games. Noone forces you to play this game.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Pirlipat.2479

Pirlipat.2479

Please read the previous pages of this thread. Thanks.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: jimthev.5243

jimthev.5243

They should have a series of epic 5 dungeon 5 player dungeons with a great story line end with a solo ‘battle your ghost’ to a jumping puzzle leading to the finale of a NPC polymock battle. That is the equivalent of what was done in FnF.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Medron Pryde.6850

Medron Pryde.6850

I really like Guild Wars 2. I love that we can walk around in a field with a bunch of other people and if something big happens, we put out a call and a lot of people come in to help with the issue. Massively. Multiplayer. Online. Awesome. I’ve done the Living Story and loved it. It’s a cool story. Done with small groups of people, and sometimes large, whoever is around, it can be really cool. A homestead comes under attack, a call goes out, and pretty soon a whole lot of people show up to drive back the invaders.

And then we end it with a 5-player limited dungeon. Why? This is a WOW-style raid, not an MMO-style battle. This is nothing like what we’ve done along the way. But I wanted to know how the story ended, so I got together with a group of people and we hit it.

The teleporting brawlers that kill people with one swing got annoying. The gunners that shoot people from across the world got annoying. But we battled through them all. We rescued the prisoners. Our dinky little 5-man squad got all the way to the end.

And then beavis and butthead attacked, destroyed the bridges, and trapped us on a tiny little platform with AOE flame attacks and AOE shockwave attacks. Total curbstomp.

Why? Why have I spent two months playing this living story to have the final culmination of this massively multiplayer cooperative event turned into a 5-man miniteam where we get attacked by two super-powered teleporting buggers that make the Shadow Behemoth in Kryta look like a wimp. Really?

Look. I know a lot of people like the 5-man dungeon experience. Like a lot of people like the PVP stuff. And I’m amazingly happy that this game caters to that. I love that you can do PVP and dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Just like I loved that Guild Wars was the best PVP game of her time. I never did it. But I love that the game did it so well.

I played the story. The environment. I walked around with friends and enjoyed the scenery, and killed nasties. That’s what I do in GW2. And with the new options, I get to call for help and a dozen and more people show up, tip their hats, and wade in with swords swinging to help me out. It is truly massive, and truly a living world where the players help each other.

But this? It’s a real letdown that I’m not going to see the end of this story. I’ve played it all, I’ve done every achievement. I’ve seen everything. And it all culminates in a tiny little 5-man miniteam. It’s a waste of a good story. And it’s a loss for all the people like me who enjoy truly massive multiplayer for such a massive story to have such a tiny end.

And because my team couldn’t finish off beavis and butthead, I don’t get to see the end of it. The very end. And that leaves me feeling very disappointed, that ArenaNet would design such a massive story that casual players can see, and then hide the end behind such a difficult 5-man dungeon.

And I could care less about the loot. I just want to see the story. And now that’s just not going to happen.

And that’s a disappointment.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Vernys.5819

Vernys.5819

Both I and my partner were also VERY disappointed in the dungeon as a final battle, and in particular the design of the dungeon.

We first tried it with a party of four 80s (two warriors, one ranger, one support elementalist) and one 19 (guardian). The 80s had rare or better weaponry, but of course the 19 had masterwork at best. The final battle was simply not winnable – we didn’t have enough DPS to get the flying armored turtle dead. After an hour of trying, the 19 graciously left and we replaced him with an 80 necro with exotic to legendary gear, and the the bosses went down without much difficulty. The bull did kill one of the party who just couldn’t get underneath him fast enough. All in all, we spent 3.5 hours in that dungeon, and nobody came out happy or cheering. It’s just so lame that dungeon success depends on party gear level – especially in a highly touted “living story” event.

Having a dungeon whose completion REQUIRES everyone use ranged weapons AND everyone have high level gear is just bad game design. It will surely frustrate low-level players who don’t yet have the skills and equipment to survive. If you’re going to be exclusive in a storyline conclusion, players should be warned.

You really need to post a warning like this on the storyline:

“WARNING: Only skillful adventurers with rare or better ranged fighting weapons can complete the story. All others cannot expect to survive the ‘molten core weapons testing facility,’ and therefore cannot reach the conclusion.”

(edited by Vernys.5819)

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Ryu.1368

Ryu.1368

I don’t get what is the point of playing mmorpg if you don’t want to play with random people. If you want to play singleplayer game there is witcher, skyrim etc. And if you want to play only with your close friend there is bunch of coop games. Noone forces you to play this game.

(Pulls Josip’s foot out of their mouth) There we go… Just helpin’ ya’ out.

So, yeah. pretty much everything in this game is playing with others. Save of course crafting… You have an idea where crafting should be co-op, instead of just you and a window? I think if you’re gonna craft, you should go play a singleplayer crafting game! … …Heh…

In all seriousness, dungeons are as co-op as the rest of the game. Difference is, you’re playing with less people at a time, and have to work together more in a trikier situation. THAT is also another reason this dungeon should have been optional, rather then required for completion. Because more often then not, people are using Pick Up Groups. Which can make or break a run. Some love that, others do not. Since it’s an ‘MMO’, it’s about what people like/dislike as a whole. They didn’t name the game “World Of Josip” for a reason.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Aduial.8542

Aduial.8542

I don’t get what is the point of playing mmorpg if you don’t want to play with random people. If you want to play singleplayer game there is witcher, skyrim etc. And if you want to play only with your close friend there is bunch of coop games. Noone forces you to play this game.

Skimming through 420+ messages may seem daunting, but if you do, you’ll find many answers to your question.

GW2 is designed and has been marketed as a solo-friendly game because there’s a demand for it. Witcher is a fine game, but it doesn’t have a dynamic environment, constant updates, and it’s not a living world. And solo-friendly doesn’t always mean single player. I play with random people all the time, but I rarely party up with them.

It’s difficult for those of us with families and jobs (or students with heavy workloads) to group up for a dungeon. On most days I’m not able to sit down and relax until around 10pm, and even then I can’t always commit to a group. Trust me on this, “No honey, I cannot hold the baby, for I must slay the dragon!” would not go over well in my house. Finding that window where my kids are asleep, my wife doesn’t need me (spouses need attention too!), it’s not 3am on a work night, Arah is open, and there’s a group of four available for Victory or Death, has so far eluded me and after months of trying I still haven’t finished the personal story. As for finishing F&F, I’ve resigned myself that it’s not going to happen.

GW2 is one of the best RPG games I’ve ever played and I’m not bailing on it, but their staff wants feedback, and they’re certainly getting it. A lot of us feel they’ve made the wrong decision in this case, and I’m sure they’re paying attention to this thread.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

I can’t really understand the whole “Solo-friendly = NO DUNGEONS!!!!” thinking to be honest.
I am not much of a dungeon player myself, I usually only do them when the guild need a player or something like that. And yet I have done the new dungeon quite a few times, most of them with only PUGs and it have worked out great. I have a feeling that people that complain about it most likely are complaining on principle without actually even trying the content in question.

A bit like how people complain about WoW without ever playing WoW.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Pirlipat.2479

Pirlipat.2479

You are wrong.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: TheMagickDoll.7594

TheMagickDoll.7594

Hey guys,

I just want to mention that we have attempted to design this dungeon in a manner that, in a way, makes it very difficult to skip much of anything. We have done extensive internal testing and the general consensus is that trying to skip most of the content ends up being more trouble than it is worth, and the fastest way through is essentially to play through the content as intended.

I know that there will still be doubters, but hopefully the work we have put in towards this goal will contribute to providing the story experience you are hoping for.

Thank you! I hate these people who keep trying to skip the fun stuff in dungeons. Its been a lot of fun to play this dungeon and look forward to more like in the future.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Vulpis.8063

Vulpis.8063

I don’t get what is the point of playing mmorpg if you don’t want to play with random people. If you want to play singleplayer game there is witcher, skyrim etc. And if you want to play only with your close friend there is bunch of coop games. Noone forces you to play this game.

Here’s a thought for you, and the others like you that keep getting hung up on that whole ‘If you’re not in a dungeon team you’re not being social’ thing—maybe it’s you who aren’t cut out for MMOS? It sounds like you’d be better off finding a good GM and using Gametable to run a tabletop RPG. Not only do you have your little group, but you have dungeons that have a challenge, variety, and adaptability impossible (at this point anyway) in a coded and scripted MMO dungeon.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: Vulpis.8063

Vulpis.8063

I can’t really understand the whole “Solo-friendly = NO DUNGEONS!!!!” thinking to be honest.
I am not much of a dungeon player myself, I usually only do them when the guild need a player or something like that. And yet I have done the new dungeon quite a few times, most of them with only PUGs and it have worked out great. I have a feeling that people that complain about it most likely are complaining on principle without actually even trying the content in question.

A bit like how people complain about WoW without ever playing WoW.

You’re a bit off-base…it’s not No Dungeons, it’s No Mandatory Dungeons. Or more accurately No Mandatory Dungeons Without Soloable Option.
And really there—we’re not complaining about WoW, we’re complaining about games that copy it for no other reason than players wanting things more like WoW.

Meanwhile, I’ve tried that content—and ended up spending a lot on repairs each time because I could only get one veteran down in the first room, and never got to ever see anything past that in the first place.

Disappointed that F&F ends w/ a dungeon

in Flame and Frost

Posted by: TobyTucker.5317

TobyTucker.5317

I did the rest of the story by myself with great satisfaction, but being FORCED to do a dungeon run to complete the event makes me angry. REALLY REALLY ANGRY. With this and other recent changes ANet has made to the game, I almost think they are actively trying to drive players away. IMO they’re making big mistakes here that they will regret once ESO drops. I look forward to that release with great anticipation and would not be surprised if there was a great migration once it does.