Events that means zerging: Bad design.
Events that means stop zerging: Bad design.
Will anything ever not be bad design?
Nonsense, this particular pavillion design is completely counter intuitive in relation to GW2 and MMO.
Requiring teamwork and communication is counter intuitive to MMOs? hmm. And scaling… is that new to GW2? It’s been around as long as I’ve played /shrug.
Really?
So would you be so kind to name where more players mean failure. More UNAWARE players, since there is absolutely NOTHING that indicates this GTFO mentality.
In MMO and GW2.
Teq/Great Jungle Wurm are both very similar and both actually much harder.
Assault Knights and Scarlet in LA event were much easier with the right amount of people as well. I don’t think you would have much success on either of those with 5, but I know I noticed a pretty distinct difference when it was full 40+ people up at Scarlet. It was easier with 20s than 40s.
And I remember asking people to sit out of events in EQ because they were a liability rather than being helpful. We had mechanics there where one person failing would wipe the raid. Imagine if one person not not dodging the Boom Boom Barrel would kill everyone on boom boom. On occasion I even excused myself from portions of raids simply because I knew I was more of a liability as I couldn’t fully focus at the time.
Scaling is their answer to the problem of “how do you make it doable by a group, but not overly trivial for a zerg?” It works quite well IMO.
I’m with vorgamonth though, I wanna see how long a group of 20+ zerk wearing DPS focused players takes to down Boom Boom for example. That’s what the 5 man groups taking it out in a couple minutes are doing, not really fair to compare apples to oranges /shrug.
I actually like the this is set up, now it isn’t monster blob everything and spam 1 till it dies., then cycle through the Pavillion, like last year. Last year was terrible tbh for the people up on the second floor of the pavillion trying to do Liadri. Now it’s more spread and a little bit more coordination based. If you want 1 spam wars go to WvW for that or one of the world bosses not Teq or Wurm.
That’s another issue. The gauntlet should have been put in it’s own instance.
Events that means zerging: Bad design.
Events that means stop zerging: Bad design.
Will anything ever not be bad design?
Nonsense, this particular pavillion design is completely counter intuitive in relation to GW2 and MMO.
Requiring teamwork and communication is counter intuitive to MMOs? hmm. And scaling… is that new to GW2? It’s been around as long as I’ve played /shrug.
Really?
So would you be so kind to name where more players mean failure. More UNAWARE players, since there is absolutely NOTHING that indicates this GTFO mentality.
In MMO and GW2.
Teq/Great Jungle Wurm are both very similar and both actually much harder.
Assault Knights and Scarlet in LA event were much easier with the right amount of people as well. I don’t think you would have much success on either of those with 5, but I know I noticed a pretty distinct difference when it was full 40+ people up at Scarlet. It was easier with 20s than 40s.
And I remember asking people to sit out of events in EQ because they were a liability rather than being helpful. We had mechanics there where one person failing would wipe the raid. Imagine if one person not not dodging the Boom Boom Barrel would kill everyone on boom boom. On occasion I even excused myself from portions of raids simply because I knew I was more of a liability as I couldn’t fully focus at the time.
Scaling is their answer to the problem of “how do you make it doable by a group, but not overly trivial for a zerg?” It works quite well IMO.
I’m with vorgamonth though, I wanna see how long a group of 20+ zerk wearing DPS focused players takes to down Boom Boom for example. That’s what the 5 man groups taking it out in a couple minutes are doing, not really fair to compare apples to oranges /shrug.
So you have nothing really? More people are unwelcomed at Teq/Wurm fights? Really?
EQ? Ancient game that is a relic of the past and for all the right reasons. If you want GW2 to be played by 1000 people in total – yeah, thats the answer, make it more like EQ lol
Scaling works good….when done good. In this event it isnt. Plain and simple.
Hopefully ANet will learn from this and not repeat same mistake again.
As i said before, use this kind of content in underused maps and with ability to spawn the encounter by guild/community. Regular open world content….and festival on top…with people on board that might have just started the game…just isnt the place for completely counter intuitive mechanic and GTFO mentality.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
As i said before, use this kind of content in underused maps and with ability to spawn the encounter by guild/community. Regular open world content….and festival on top…with people on board that might have just started the game…just isnt the place for completely counter intuitive mechanic and GTFO mentality.
And let’s not forget the counterproductive achievements. I’ll admit to getting all of my 50 kills achievements while ‘running with the zerk’, and just killing mobs while not lifting a finger to help with the bosses. Boom Boom’s level 84 turret was actually to my benefit, because it made her event last long enough to get all the bandit kills I needed.
It makes sense to me, the mechanics are all part of the game in some way already. If you still feel its counter intuitive, welp, i’ll have to still disagree.
And let’s not forget the counterproductive achievements. I’ll admit to getting all of my 50 kills achievements while ‘running with the zerk’, and just killing mobs while not lifting a finger to help with the bosses. Boom Boom’s level 84 turret was actually to my benefit, because it made her event last long enough to get all the bandit kills I needed.
You mean the ones that are doable between the blitzes. . . it’s only counter productive if you make it that way.
i dont “feel” its counter intuitive, it IS counter intuitive lol
You can disagree sky is blue and water is wet. Most people see reason and arguments. And, there are always those who just dont want to.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You mean the ones that are doable between the blitzes. . . it’s only counter productive if you make it that way.
I did it during the blitzes, and I did something more interesting than killing boring mobs that don’t give rewards between the blitzes. That way I got a bronze chest. It was productive for me.
It just happened to be counterproductive to the group effort, but since I had no affiliation with anyone in that group, I didn’t care.
i dont “feel” its counter intuitive, it IS counter intuitive lol
Agreed. I can’t get my head around how anyone could disagree that “please don’t come over and stab that guy, you’ll make him live longer.” is counterintuitive.
You mean the ones that are doable between the blitzes. . . it’s only counter productive if you make it that way.
I did it during the blitzes, and I did something more interesting than killing boring mobs that don’t give rewards between the blitzes. That way I got a bronze chest. It was productive for me.
It just happened to be counterproductive to the group effort, but since I had no affiliation with anyone in that group, I didn’t care.
i dont “feel” its counter intuitive, it IS counter intuitive lol
Agreed. I can’t get my head around how anyone could disagree that “please don’t come over and stab that guy, you’ll make him live longer.” is counterintuitive.
True, it allows player to put themselves over others and make it harder on other players, that’s not good.
And we’re talking a video game here. Why do female’s armor get skimpier the better it is? How do you hold so many backpacks? It’s called Video Game Logic, you learn how the game works, and that becomes the new set of rules. GW2 has scaling, meaning stabbing a guy increases his health and if you aren’t going to pull your own weight it will live longer. Maybe the scaling is a bit off, but again I want to see how fast a group of 20 zerk DPS focused guys can take it down compared to a group of 5. Not a zerg in PVT gear spamming 1 with defensive trait builds.
Maybe I’m just thinking of this as someone who has tried to learn how GW2 works. But I think it’s a good thing to learn and takes all of 2s, /m “why don’t we want more on each guy?” “because the more people attacking the more it scales up in health and what not”.
You mean the ones that are doable between the blitzes. . . it’s only counter productive if you make it that way.
I did it during the blitzes, and I did something more interesting than killing boring mobs that don’t give rewards between the blitzes. That way I got a bronze chest. It was productive for me.
It just happened to be counterproductive to the group effort, but since I had no affiliation with anyone in that group, I didn’t care.
i dont “feel” its counter intuitive, it IS counter intuitive lol
Agreed. I can’t get my head around how anyone could disagree that “please don’t come over and stab that guy, you’ll make him live longer.” is counterintuitive.
True, it allows player to put themselves over others and make it harder on other players, that’s not good.
And we’re talking a video game here. Why do female’s armor get skimpier the better it is? How do you hold so many backpacks? It’s called Video Game Logic, you learn how the game works, and that becomes the new set of rules. GW2 has scaling, meaning stabbing a guy increases his health and if you aren’t going to pull your own weight it will live longer. Maybe the scaling is a bit off, but again I want to see how fast a group of 20 zerk DPS focused guys can take it down compared to a group of 5. Not a zerg in PVT gear spamming 1 with defensive trait builds.
Maybe I’m just thinking of this as someone who has tried to learn how GW2 works. But I think it’s a good thing to learn and takes all of 2s, /m “why don’t we want more on each guy?” “because the more people attacking the more it scales up in health and what not”.
Oh, so our level 15 who came to do some festival stuff must be full zerk and what not. Dude.
PVT gear is put in the game by ANet, and if you cant do it in PVT gear then ANet failed in their own game, is that what youre saying now?
So, basically, what youre saying is:
1. Any upscaled has to be told to GTFO immediately
2. Anyone not in full zerk gear should be told to GTFO immediately
3. Any “excess” player that happen to be in the area should be told to GTFO immediately
Yes, wonderful design, i wonder why noone thought of that before.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
If success in any kind of quest relies on the chat window, the game is not doing its job correctly.
This.
This is something other MMOs have learned about encounter design. They give sufficient information to tell the player how the battle dynamic has shifted. In some I’ve delved deeper into, the player can tell from status icons and chat tells what happened, even after the fight ended.
Big Bad Kitten bares its [Claws of Death]!
Basically, like that. :P It’s accompanied by sound and visual, multiple channels of communication to replace the tiny bits we can’t see past an ectoplasmic blob of effect particles.
In GW2, we might get a tell from a slightly longer sword swing that is otherwise indistinguishable from the boss’s autoattacks. Or he takes a pose that we can’t see past the effectblob.
It wouldn’t take much for GW2 to catch up on this, either. More obvious visual tells or a set of catch phrases that precede an attack would help loads, especially in larger battles.
… >.> And that has very little to do with scaling. Then again, these issues are hardly ever simple.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
You mean the ones that are doable between the blitzes. . . it’s only counter productive if you make it that way.
I did it during the blitzes, and I did something more interesting than killing boring mobs that don’t give rewards between the blitzes. That way I got a bronze chest. It was productive for me.
It just happened to be counterproductive to the group effort, but since I had no affiliation with anyone in that group, I didn’t care.
i dont “feel” its counter intuitive, it IS counter intuitive lol
Agreed. I can’t get my head around how anyone could disagree that “please don’t come over and stab that guy, you’ll make him live longer.” is counterintuitive.
True, it allows player to put themselves over others and make it harder on other players, that’s not good.
And we’re talking a video game here. Why do female’s armor get skimpier the better it is? How do you hold so many backpacks? It’s called Video Game Logic, you learn how the game works, and that becomes the new set of rules. GW2 has scaling, meaning stabbing a guy increases his health and if you aren’t going to pull your own weight it will live longer. Maybe the scaling is a bit off, but again I want to see how fast a group of 20 zerk DPS focused guys can take it down compared to a group of 5. Not a zerg in PVT gear spamming 1 with defensive trait builds.
Maybe I’m just thinking of this as someone who has tried to learn how GW2 works. But I think it’s a good thing to learn and takes all of 2s, /m “why don’t we want more on each guy?” “because the more people attacking the more it scales up in health and what not”.
Oh, so our level 15 who came to do some festival stuff must be full zerk and what not. Dude.
PVT gear is put in the game by ANet, and if you cant do it in PVT gear then ANet failed in their own game, is that what youre saying now?
So, basically, what youre saying is:
1. Any upscaled has to be told to GTFO immediately
2. Anyone not in full zerk gear should be told to GTFO immediately
3. Any “excess” player that happen to be in the area should be told to GTFO immediately
Yes, wonderful design, i wonder why noone thought of that before.
Have you been reading? The point is the groups of 5 doing this are in full DPS gear, before we can really say scaling is off we have to remove as many variables as possible. If you compare 5 people in zerk to 20 in PVT and say the scaling is off, that’s not a very good comparison.
If you read one of my earlier comments i said I don’t think they made this specifically for zerk gear, because with zerk gear we can tear right through it with plenty of time to spare.
And I don’t agree with your statements there at all.
And the level 15 is welcome (it can still be beat with plenty of upscales), maybe he’ll learn a bit of how GW2 works, including how scaling works instead of just learning to be a zergling.
The main feature of the Boss Blitz is that you have to burn them down more or less simultaneously. Which means you can’t have one zerg going boss to boss — you must split up with a certain minimum number of people at each boss. That’s fine. No problem with that.
The problem is Boss upscaling means there’s a threshold where you can have too many people at a boss (the number I usually see is 15) and the boss becomes much stronger/tougher. If you pass that number, you’re likely hurting the team rather than helping. This leads to map chat GTFO wars.
Ideally, scaling should be done so that if a player has the same skill level as the average skill of the group, then the boss is killed in the same amount of time with or without that player. What we have now is way too far from the ideal, IMO.
I completely agree. I have nothing against strategy but I do not like this system for these reasons. I hope that they change it if they have the Pavilion next year and I hope they never use it again.
it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol
And the level 15 is welcome (it can still be beat with plenty of upscales), maybe he’ll learn a bit of how GW2 works, including how scaling works instead of just learning to be a zergling.
And sometimes, the level 22 in all whites is the only one left standing at Sparc after he explodes a platform. =P
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Agree with the OP on this. I just tried about 20 times to get taxied into a successful, organized instance. No luck. I probably won’t bother to try again – not unless they change how they are implementing this event over the next month plus it will apparently last (assuming they run it up to the start of season 2).
Nerf Shadow Arts condition cleanse. Gut the
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
I think the mechanic is fine, it’s very similar to the marrionette. What could be improved is the tools available to the player to see the status of each quadrant.
e.g. all health bars visible to all players in the event notifier. and perhaps a visual scaling “enrage” symbol that indicates which bosses are scaling up and by how much.
This would help the casual player understand what is going on and reduce the pressure on specific guilds organising a successful attempt at the event.
I think the mechanic is fine, it’s very similar to the marrionette. What could be improved is the tools available to the player to see the status of each quadrant.
e.g. all health bars visible to all players in the event notifier. and perhaps a visual scaling “enrage” symbol that indicates which bosses are scaling up and by how much.
This would help the casual player understand what is going on and reduce the pressure on specific guilds organising a successful attempt at the event.
^This would be great. In fact every future content with the similar concept should have such a system. Regular scaling champions could use a zerg/upscale-o-meter on them just for convenience’s sake, but these kinds of events where a massive amount of individual players need to cooperate and spread out, it is a must. Also seeing the other boss health-bars is necessary when the success of the event depends on them dying about the same time. Anything that makes us not needing to use 3rd party voice chats or stopping in the intense fight to type the current status of the boss.
Some might say it would make things too easy, but really its just a game-convenience thing much like the removal of the domes in the gauntlet or the use of orange telegraphs.
By the way, what’s wrong with using an up-scaled character in the event?
If the game upscale you, you’re supposed to be there.
If anet wanted that we use only lvl 80 then the game should not upscale you and let die you at the same moment that you set one foot in the place.
But, the place upscale you, so you’re supposed to be there.
i think the issue is the lack of traits and upscaling not taking this into account, so you’re weaker than level 80’s.
(at least thats how most people feel)
I think the mechanic is fine, it’s very similar to the marrionette. What could be improved is the tools available to the player to see the status of each quadrant.
e.g. all health bars visible to all players in the event notifier. and perhaps a visual scaling “enrage” symbol that indicates which bosses are scaling up and by how much.
This would help the casual player understand what is going on and reduce the pressure on specific guilds organising a successful attempt at the event.
While I like an increased visual of what is going on, I still don’t like the idea of “o.O., there are probably too many of you, decide who leaves – and heh, if you where just on your way here, turn around now you will not be welcome”.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not even talking about drama or anything. But does that not sound like the most lame thing you’ve ever heard? “Yeah, in GW2 there are events and bosses now, but you have to have to make sure that the others want you there, because if there are too many players it gets too hard and makes the event stupid.”
It’s one thing to say “we have XX-man raids”, it’s another to say “open world, everyone welcome, but just not too many, eh?”.
I don’t know how to put this better – it simply feels not GW2.
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
I think the mechanic is fine, it’s very similar to the marrionette. What could be improved is the tools available to the player to see the status of each quadrant.
e.g. all health bars visible to all players in the event notifier. and perhaps a visual scaling “enrage” symbol that indicates which bosses are scaling up and by how much.
This would help the casual player understand what is going on and reduce the pressure on specific guilds organising a successful attempt at the event.
While I like an increased visual of what is going on, I still don’t like the idea of “o.O., there are probably too many of you, decide who leaves – and heh, if you where just on your way here, turn around now you will not be welcome”.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not even talking about drama or anything. But does that not sound like the most lame thing you’ve ever heard? “Yeah, in GW2 there are events and bosses now, but you have to have to make sure that the others want you there, because if there are too many players it gets too hard and makes the event stupid.”
It’s one thing to say “we have XX-man raids”, it’s another to say “open world, everyone welcome, but just not too many, eh?”.
I don’t know how to put this better – it simply feels not GW2.
This. So much.
I have no problem with this type of coordination in instanced raids. But when it’s limited time open world content, guess what? Everyone wants to play. And it sucks to have to constantly discourage people from playing. Say whatever you want about Marionette, but at no point did anyone ever have to say, “Stop hitting that boss and sit in the middle doing nothing, otherwise this will take over an hour and you’ll get some greens to show for it.”
“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
I think the mechanic is fine, it’s very similar to the marrionette. What could be improved is the tools available to the player to see the status of each quadrant.
e.g. all health bars visible to all players in the event notifier. and perhaps a visual scaling “enrage” symbol that indicates which bosses are scaling up and by how much.
This would help the casual player understand what is going on and reduce the pressure on specific guilds organising a successful attempt at the event.
While I like an increased visual of what is going on, I still don’t like the idea of “o.O., there are probably too many of you, decide who leaves – and heh, if you where just on your way here, turn around now you will not be welcome”.
Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not even talking about drama or anything. But does that not sound like the most lame thing you’ve ever heard? “Yeah, in GW2 there are events and bosses now, but you have to have to make sure that the others want you there, because if there are too many players it gets too hard and makes the event stupid.”
It’s one thing to say “we have XX-man raids”, it’s another to say “open world, everyone welcome, but just not too many, eh?”.
I don’t know how to put this better – it simply feels not GW2.
Bingo. If they want to seclude this content, go ahead, but this….and in a festival….and with actually new/inexperienced players exposed to this….they could actually get completely distorted picture of GW2 and think that this excuse for content is what rest of GW2 is….
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Really? So people can continue to ignore them, while continue to braindead farm COF1 (and few other “lucrative” paths)?
And what does any of it has to do with “gemstone”?
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
The problem is that apparently, in the Pavilion once the group is larger than a certain size, the bosses durability scales up substantially faster than the expected damage output of a single additional player.
As I said before, I could be wrong, but this is probably a myth.
I’ve seen huge blobs defeating a boss on gold reward time right after activation, which shouldn’t happen if the events oversclaed that much.
…
It’s not a myth.
Yes, you can see a blob beat a boss within the gold timer. A good small group can kill most of the bosses in 2 minutes. You can still take 3 times as long and make the gold timer.
Here’s the reason it isn’t a myth; boss leveling. As the number of players increase past certain thresholds, the level of the boss increases as well. This means an increase in glancing hits. If a player comes and causes a 2% decrease in damage to everyone while scaling the boss, there is no way they’ll make it up.
Boom-boom makes this really obvious. If you see that turret hit level 84, you know it’s going to take forever. By then, the boss has scaled up enough to reduce everyone’s damage by 6% in addition to the normal scaling. That hurts. It’s not a myth. The scaling is such that an additional player can hurt more than help.
Are you sure that bosses level up? Because I haven’t seen that happening, even with 20+ players.
These Maps are capped at 75 players. 10 players at each boss = 60 people. A Few more at any of them and you have your 75. I don’t get why there is complaints about this being ‘bad design.’ Just because you can’t pay attention to Map chat doesn’t make it bad design. I means you’re a bad communicator. How hard is it to speak up in Map chat when you enter an organized run and wait to see what people say. There are bosses that can take heavy scaling very well and there is ALWAYS a place for someone if they are willing to communicate with the rest of the group. Organizing these maps while inherently seems easy, it really takes some effort and willingness by “leaders” of groups to keep things in order. You blatantly coming in without forethought of others is a problem, its not an ANet Problem either, its yours. There are several things “wrong” with this event, the scaling is not really one of them since ANet took that into account already by lowering the cap of Pavilion Maps to 75.
*Footnote: We know the cap is 75 through testing of our guild Boss Blitz Bros Organizing maps. So, yes it is confirmed the map cap is lower than the standard 150/300 people.
-It’s Lady Paradox- Sweet Adrenaline
“What Part Of Living Says You Gotta Die?
I Plan On Burnin Through Another 9 Lives”
The problem is that apparently, in the Pavilion once the group is larger than a certain size, the bosses durability scales up substantially faster than the expected damage output of a single additional player.
As I said before, I could be wrong, but this is probably a myth.
I’ve seen huge blobs defeating a boss on gold reward time right after activation, which shouldn’t happen if the events oversclaed that much.
…
It’s not a myth.
Yes, you can see a blob beat a boss within the gold timer. A good small group can kill most of the bosses in 2 minutes. You can still take 3 times as long and make the gold timer.
Here’s the reason it isn’t a myth; boss leveling. As the number of players increase past certain thresholds, the level of the boss increases as well. This means an increase in glancing hits. If a player comes and causes a 2% decrease in damage to everyone while scaling the boss, there is no way they’ll make it up.
Boom-boom makes this really obvious. If you see that turret hit level 84, you know it’s going to take forever. By then, the boss has scaled up enough to reduce everyone’s damage by 6% in addition to the normal scaling. That hurts. It’s not a myth. The scaling is such that an additional player can hurt more than help.
Are you sure that bosses level up? Because I haven’t seen that happening, even with 20+ players.
bosses health increase, something like 5% for every player after 5 players
I’m not entirely sure, a dev commented on upscaling (post seems to be gone ). but it was somethiing like that.
Booms turret is the easiest one to notice upscaling as you’ll see the level of the turret increase .
The problem is that apparently, in the Pavilion once the group is larger than a certain size, the bosses durability scales up substantially faster than the expected damage output of a single additional player.
As I said before, I could be wrong, but this is probably a myth.
I’ve seen huge blobs defeating a boss on gold reward time right after activation, which shouldn’t happen if the events oversclaed that much.
…
It’s not a myth.
Yes, you can see a blob beat a boss within the gold timer. A good small group can kill most of the bosses in 2 minutes. You can still take 3 times as long and make the gold timer.
Here’s the reason it isn’t a myth; boss leveling. As the number of players increase past certain thresholds, the level of the boss increases as well. This means an increase in glancing hits. If a player comes and causes a 2% decrease in damage to everyone while scaling the boss, there is no way they’ll make it up.
Boom-boom makes this really obvious. If you see that turret hit level 84, you know it’s going to take forever. By then, the boss has scaled up enough to reduce everyone’s damage by 6% in addition to the normal scaling. That hurts. It’s not a myth. The scaling is such that an additional player can hurt more than help.
Are you sure that bosses level up? Because I haven’t seen that happening, even with 20+ players.
bosses health increase, something like 5% for every player after 5 players
I’m not entirely sure, a dev commented on upscaling (post seems to be gone ). but it was somethiing like that.
Booms turret is the easiest one to notice upscaling as you’ll see the level of the turret increase .
The problem is that apparently, in the Pavilion once the group is larger than a certain size, the bosses durability scales up substantially faster than the expected damage output of a single additional player.
As I said before, I could be wrong, but this is probably a myth.
I’ve seen huge blobs defeating a boss on gold reward time right after activation, which shouldn’t happen if the events oversclaed that much.
…
It’s not a myth.
Yes, you can see a blob beat a boss within the gold timer. A good small group can kill most of the bosses in 2 minutes. You can still take 3 times as long and make the gold timer.
Here’s the reason it isn’t a myth; boss leveling. As the number of players increase past certain thresholds, the level of the boss increases as well. This means an increase in glancing hits. If a player comes and causes a 2% decrease in damage to everyone while scaling the boss, there is no way they’ll make it up.
Boom-boom makes this really obvious. If you see that turret hit level 84, you know it’s going to take forever. By then, the boss has scaled up enough to reduce everyone’s damage by 6% in addition to the normal scaling. That hurts. It’s not a myth. The scaling is such that an additional player can hurt more than help.
Are you sure that bosses level up? Because I haven’t seen that happening, even with 20+ players.
bosses health increase, something like 5% for every player after 5 players
I’m not entirely sure, a dev commented on upscaling (post seems to be gone ). but it was somethiing like that.
Booms turret is the easiest one to notice upscaling as you’ll see the level of the turret increase .
Yes, it was my topic and it was removed for "posting of unreleased game data ".
The problem is that apparently, in the Pavilion once the group is larger than a certain size, the bosses durability scales up substantially faster than the expected damage output of a single additional player.
As I said before, I could be wrong, but this is probably a myth.
I’ve seen huge blobs defeating a boss on gold reward time right after activation, which shouldn’t happen if the events oversclaed that much.
…
It’s not a myth.
Yes, you can see a blob beat a boss within the gold timer. A good small group can kill most of the bosses in 2 minutes. You can still take 3 times as long and make the gold timer.
Here’s the reason it isn’t a myth; boss leveling. As the number of players increase past certain thresholds, the level of the boss increases as well. This means an increase in glancing hits. If a player comes and causes a 2% decrease in damage to everyone while scaling the boss, there is no way they’ll make it up.
Boom-boom makes this really obvious. If you see that turret hit level 84, you know it’s going to take forever. By then, the boss has scaled up enough to reduce everyone’s damage by 6% in addition to the normal scaling. That hurts. It’s not a myth. The scaling is such that an additional player can hurt more than help.
Are you sure that bosses level up? Because I haven’t seen that happening, even with 20+ players.
bosses health increase, something like 5% for every player after 5 players
I’m not entirely sure, a dev commented on upscaling (post seems to be gone ). but it was somethiing like that.
Booms turret is the easiest one to notice upscaling as you’ll see the level of the turret increase .
Yes, it was my topic and it was removed for "posting of unreleased game data ".
These Maps are capped at 75 players. 10 players at each boss = 60 people. A Few more at any of them and you have your 75. I don’t get why there is complaints about this being ‘bad design.’ Just because you can’t pay attention to Map chat doesn’t make it bad design. I means you’re a bad communicator. How hard is it to speak up in Map chat when you enter an organized run and wait to see what people say. There are bosses that can take heavy scaling very well and there is ALWAYS a place for someone if they are willing to communicate with the rest of the group. Organizing these maps while inherently seems easy, it really takes some effort and willingness by “leaders” of groups to keep things in order. You blatantly coming in without forethought of others is a problem, its not an ANet Problem either, its yours. There are several things “wrong” with this event, the scaling is not really one of them since ANet took that into account already by lowering the cap of Pavilion Maps to 75.
*Footnote: We know the cap is 75 through testing of our guild Boss Blitz Bros Organizing maps. So, yes it is confirmed the map cap is lower than the standard 150/300 people.
Question, if a high percentage do not like and event is that acceptable and deemed a success? I would really like to hear if the QP is working as intended or needs tweaking and/or fixing. But I’m not naive enough to think I will ever receive such infomation. After 10 plus years of playing mmo’s I’ve learned one constant. Mmo companies never, ever admit they goofed, until years later when it’s completly worthless, and irrelevant.
That said, Anet really thought 6 groups of 8 to 10 players each in a setting where hundreds may show up, was deemed acceptable, with no instancing or overflow? With the big push for mega servers, they decided small groups was best?
Question, if a high percentage do not like and event is that acceptable and deemed a success? I would really like to hear if the QP is working as intended or needs tweaking and/or fixing. But I’m not naive enough to think I will ever receive such infomation. After 10 plus years of playing mmo’s I’ve learned one constant. Mmo companies never, ever admit they goofed, until years later when it’s completly worthless, and irrelevant.
The general way of admitting they have done something wrong is to couch in bland terms. “We have been monitoring user feedback and have been discussing it with a view to improve future updates.” is about as good as you’ll ever get. The writing team have said stuff like this in the past and there is evidence that they actually did things based on feedback (just not enough to appease the “LS is messd, Scarlet = Mary Sue, kill LS and release expansion” crowd).
I would expect reference to this in a couple of months time indirectly talking about how they looked at grouping players in open world events and what sort of indicators players need, and as long as they show some signs that they’ve acted on the mistakes of Boss Blitz then I suppose that is satisfactory. What I would love to see is a statement along the lines of “While we worked very kitten the latest ‘Boss Blitz’ and are very proud of the way the event works when played as we envisaged it has come to our attention that certain design flaws have meant that many players’ experiences of this event have been extremely negative. We understand these problems and accept that there are thing that could have been done in the design phase to have prevent them. The cooperation and organisation shown by many players has been a goal we have been working towards and our new focus will be to achieve these goals without disenfranchising so many other players. Rest assured that we are listening to you feedback and have been busy discussing ways to avoid these problems in future without losing sight of our goals of interesting and challenging group experiences.”
Question, if a high percentage do not like and event is that acceptable and deemed a success? I would really like to hear if the QP is working as intended or needs tweaking and/or fixing. But I’m not naive enough to think I will ever receive such infomation. After 10 plus years of playing mmo’s I’ve learned one constant. Mmo companies never, ever admit they goofed, until years later when it’s completly worthless, and irrelevant.
That said, Anet really thought 6 groups of 8 to 10 players each in a setting where hundreds may show up, was deemed acceptable, with no instancing or overflow? With the big push for mega servers, they decided small groups was best?
The cap on each map is 75. meaning an even split is 15 on each…not hundreds, not even 100, it’s 75.
Yes it’s unfortunate that some don’t enjoy this. But from what I’ve seen on these forums if they had catered to those people then those enjoying what is there now wouldn’t be having fun. I like to have to play well, I don’t like when my performance means little to nothing which is honestly how most world bosses are now, it’s going to die no matter how crappy you play. I in no way think the blitz is hard, but it does benefit from good play and I appreciate that.
Yes, it was my topic and it was removed for "posting of unreleased game data ".
kitten ..:. That was an interesting thread!
It was much more than interesting.
It was a thread about actual numbers with active dev participation, the kind of thing that could have allowed us to move from a blind discussion based on impressions to delimit the issues and provide proper feedback based on data.
Question, if a high percentage do not like and event is that acceptable and deemed a success? I would really like to hear if the QP is working as intended or needs tweaking and/or fixing. But I’m not naive enough to think I will ever receive such infomation. After 10 plus years of playing mmo’s I’ve learned one constant. Mmo companies never, ever admit they goofed, until years later when it’s completly worthless, and irrelevant.
The general way of admitting they have done something wrong is to couch in bland terms. “We have been monitoring user feedback and have been discussing it with a view to improve future updates.” is about as good as you’ll ever get. The writing team have said stuff like this in the past and there is evidence that they actually did things based on feedback (just not enough to appease the “LS is messd, Scarlet = Mary Sue, kill LS and release expansion” crowd).
I would expect reference to this in a couple of months time indirectly talking about how they looked at grouping players in open world events and what sort of indicators players need, and as long as they show some signs that they’ve acted on the mistakes of Boss Blitz then I suppose that is satisfactory. What I would love to see is a statement along the lines of “While we worked very kitten the latest ‘Boss Blitz’ and are very proud of the way the event works when played as we envisaged it has come to our attention that certain design flaws have meant that many players’ experiences of this event have been extremely negative. We understand these problems and accept that there are thing that could have been done in the design phase to have prevent them. The cooperation and organisation shown by many players has been a goal we have been working towards and our new focus will be to achieve these goals without disenfranchising so many other players. Rest assured that we are listening to you feedback and have been busy discussing ways to avoid these problems in future without losing sight of our goals of interesting and challenging group experiences.”
Well said. To top off my failed afternoon in the QP, some really good friends that were VERY loyal to GW2, quit and went back to SWTOR. They would rather pay a monthly fee then play for free. And I’m sure many others have done the same and gone back to other games. I try to be positive, I sport the volunteer tag etc.. I have spent hours and hours trying to help others have fun. I feel like no matter what I do, it’s just too late. Guess Scarlet was right. I REALLY hope the new LS is a huge success. Otherwise..
Yes, it was my topic and it was removed for "posting of unreleased game data ".
kitten ..:. That was an interesting thread!
It was much more than interesting.
It was a thread about actual numbers with active dev participation, the kind of thing that could have allowed us to move from a blind discussion based on impressions to delimit the issues and provide proper feedback based on data.
yeah sorry, I didnt know how to put that across.
I hoped the thread would stick around, especially when the dev asked “what kind of scaling would you like to see”. Such a shame that they’re forced to keep quiet…
no wonder we dont get many dev comments.
Okay a tense situation made worse. Trolls, run in and with just enough time to grab gold level reward by dropping the final 2 bosses, at less than 5% or so health, you guessed it. They upscale the event, and well the end result is predictable. Nice huh.. was this planned also? Yes we asked, pleaded, and so on, please goto the middle.. no answer, they kept on attacking. And no it was not a misunderstanding, not when it happens over and over. Is this why some really like this mechanic? They can troll and have their fun, and hide behind the premise of “oh, we didn’t know..”
I think that, by definition, a fight that encourages people to shoo others away in an MMO game is a sad, sad situation.
You’re playing an MMO. Massive-Multiplayer. You’re all well aware that there will be people around – people that might just want to kill that same boss. If you’re going to tell other people to go away, then clearly there’s a situation that does not fit in an MMO setting.
Not gonna argue about good or bad because that’s sort of down to personal taste, but if you’re gonna tell Five-Year-Old-Billy that he can’t play cause the other five already there might get less candy, you’re doing something wrong.
I think that, by definition, a fight that encourages people to shoo others away in an MMO game is a sad, sad situation.
You’re playing an MMO. Massive-Multiplayer. You’re all well aware that there will be people around – people that might just want to kill that same boss. If you’re going to tell other people to go away, then clearly there’s a situation that does not fit in an MMO setting.
Not gonna argue about good or bad because that’s sort of down to personal taste, but if you’re gonna tell Five-Year-Old-Billy that he can’t play cause the other five already there might get less candy, you’re doing something wrong.
Absolutely right. Or to put it in a more personal light for some, you’re the new kid in town, and you have your shiny new glove and the neighborhood kids won’t let you play with them. Mmorpg must not mean what it used to. If this game is going to continue feeding the so called elite players, it’s not going to make it. There are far more casual players in the world then there are “elite”, and they have more money lol
I think that, by definition, a fight that encourages people to shoo others away in an MMO game is a sad, sad situation.
You’re playing an MMO. Massive-Multiplayer. You’re all well aware that there will be people around – people that might just want to kill that same boss. If you’re going to tell other people to go away, then clearly there’s a situation that does not fit in an MMO setting.
Not gonna argue about good or bad because that’s sort of down to personal taste, but if you’re gonna tell Five-Year-Old-Billy that he can’t play cause the other five already there might get less candy, you’re doing something wrong.
Absolutely right. Or to put it in a more personal light for some, you’re the new kid in town, and you have your shiny new glove and the neighborhood kids won’t let you play with them. Mmorpg must not mean what it used to. If this game is going to continue feeding the so called elite players, it’s not going to make it. There are far more casual players in the world then there are “elite”, and they have more money lol
Oh, its not feedng the elite, its feeding the wannabe elites, people who cant make it as elites, elite is bored with this faceroll content. Thats why its SO bad.
The mindless zergs are doing the pavillion, it takes more time than it should becasue of borked scaling, but how can anyone possibly call it elite lol
As i said, its a note for developers
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Anet did great job with this Boss Blitz design. But some players just never learn and then you will see situations like “One big zerg in pavilion”.. Let them play like they want and then smile how they argue on forum about zerg content
Just like Lions Arch Living Story events..
Simple answer:
If you think you don’t need to know, then don’t complain that you don’t know.
