We Do Not Like Scarlet Briar
Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?
It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job. It might be popular nowadays to give antihero characters that the audience like more than the protagonists, but does that mean every villain needs to be likeable?
Again, it isn’t the dislike itself that’s the problem, it’s that it’s for all the wrong reasons. We don’t hate her because she’s evil, we hate her because she’s an awfully written one-dimensional character that is portrayed as being such a powerful figure that acts like the annoying class clown and never does anything that actually feels consequential. Oh, we stopped her latest evil scheme? That’s okay, because it wasn’t actually relevant to her plans and was just her playing around, turning all of the world’s armies and factions into her puppets simply because she can.
The fact is that many of us feel like the current story that’s been written for us is horribly weak because the only link between all of these otherwise unrelated events is this flimsy excuse of an arch-villain that feels about as imposing as a chihuahua in broad daylight.
And how do you know she’s as powerful as you make her out to be? Because she controls Aetherblade pirates? Because she controls clockwork creatures which probably do all of her enforcing for her? She’s INSANE. The richness of her character is what makes her insane, and this latest installment of her story might give us some insight into that process.
If we could dispose of every villain during the first event we see him/her in, every new villain that shows up simply adds to the neverending chain of inconsequential baddies. Scarlet’s important because she’s got her fingers in so much of the living story…it adds scope to her reach and increases the buildup to the inevitable climax, which IS COMING.
The “Scarlet Did It” thing going around the forums lately is, in my eyes, more of a boon to her character than a detriment. It turns the whole living story idea into an ongoing struggle that can’t just be resolved in a day, just to repeat it with a new face next week.
I’d hate it if we had a revolving door of baddies every 2 weeks, personally. The current idea of it feels more like a good drama television series with continuity from one week to the next rather than a single 2 hour movie, or a tv comedy with little to no continuity. And just because some people want Harry Potter rather than Dexter, doesn’t mean it’s better, and definitely doesn’t make Dexter equal to Scooby Doo.
There needs to be a buildup to the climax. And I’m fine with the buildup they’re giving us. You might be able to argue that Scarlet is more akin to Inspector Gadget’s Dr. Claw than the Trinity killer, but as far as I’m concerned, I had just as much fun watching Inspector Gadget as I did watching Dexter. If not more.
(edited by AKGeo.6048)
Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?
It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job. It might be popular nowadays to give antihero characters that the audience like more than the protagonists, but does that mean every villain needs to be likeable?
Again, it isn’t the dislike itself that’s the problem, it’s that it’s for all the wrong reasons. We don’t hate her because she’s evil, we hate her because she’s an awfully written one-dimensional character that is portrayed as being such a powerful figure that acts like the annoying class clown and never does anything that actually feels consequential. Oh, we stopped her latest evil scheme? That’s okay, because it wasn’t actually relevant to her plans and was just her playing around, turning all of the world’s armies and factions into her puppets simply because she can.
The fact is that many of us feel like the current story that’s been written for us is horribly weak because the only link between all of these otherwise unrelated events is this flimsy excuse of an arch-villain that feels about as imposing as a chihuahua in broad daylight.
And how do you know she’s as powerful as you make her out to be? Because she controls Aetherblade pirates? Because she controls clockwork creatures which probably do all of her enforcing for her? She’s INSANE. The richness of her character is what makes her insane, and this latest installment of her story might give us some insight into that process.
If we could dispose of every villain during the first event we see him/her in, every new villain that shows up simply adds to the neverending chain of inconsequential baddies. Scarlet’s important because she’s got her fingers in so much of the living story…it adds scope to her reach and increases the buildup to the inevitable climax, which IS COMING.
The “Scarlet Did It” thing going around the forums lately is, in my eyes, more of a boon to her character than a detriment. It turns the whole living story idea into an ongoing struggle that can’t just be resolved in a day, just to repeat it with a new face next week.
I’d hate it if we had a revolving door of baddies every 2 weeks, personally. The current idea of it feels more like a good drama television series with continuity from one week to the next rather than a single 2 hour movie, or a tv comedy with little to no continuity. And just because some people want Harry Potter rather than Dexter, doesn’t mean it’s better, and definitely doesn’t make Dexter equal to Scooby Doo.
There needs to be a buildup to the climax. And I’m fine with the buildup they’re giving us.
There’s a reason why saturday morning cartoons are directed toward an audience of children. That type of simplistic writing simply doesn’t appeal to a more mature audience. As for the ‘richness of her character’, where are you seeing such richness? All I see in Scarlet is ‘Hi, I’m bad because it’s fun and I can do anything and everything’. You’re not looking very much into the details, which is fine for you I guess, but not everyone is going to settle for so little depth in a character and a story.
Also, we’re not crying out for a constant revolving door of new villains. We just don’t like that the ONLY one we have isn’t believable as a credible threat as Anet’s writers are trying to portray her as. We’re not bothered by the fact that she has her fingers in everything; we’re bothered by the fact that she just doesn’t fit the role of someone with that kind of leverage in the story as the character she’s been written to be. If they’re going to make one person be behind everything up to this point, make it someone who actually seems like they are capable of being behind everything.
There’s a reason why saturday morning cartoons are directed toward an audience of children. That type of simplistic writing simply doesn’t appeal to a more mature audience. As for the ‘richness of her character’, where are you seeing such richness? All I see in Scarlet is ‘Hi, I’m bad because it’s fun and I can do anything and everything’. You’re not looking very much into the details, which is fine for you I guess, but not everyone is going to settle for so little depth in a character and a story.
Also, we’re not crying out for a constant revolving door of new villains. We just don’t like that the ONLY one we have isn’t believable as a credible threat as Anet’s writers are trying to portray her as. We’re not bothered by the fact that she has her fingers in everything; we’re bothered by the fact that she just doesn’t fit the role of someone with that kind of leverage in the story as the character she’s been written to be. If they’re going to make one person be behind everything up to this point, make it someone who actually seems like they are capable of being behind everything.
And considering the class of player I see most of the time in GW2, saturday morning cartoons are spot on. And considering I’ve given her a little more credit than saturday morning cartoons….I’ve actually put her on a pedestal along with those seasonal threats in those prime time dramas, such as Dexter’s Ice Truck Killer or Trinity. If you watched Dexter at all, you’ll see that the build-up for those characters was also rather slow and methodical, and even less was revealed about them at the start than Scarlet.
The richness of her character is seen in the speculation of why she’s doing what she’s doing. Then again, I’m the sort of intellectual person who doesn’t need things spelled out for me every step of the way and repeated 5 times an hour. If she does something, I want to know why just like you do, but I actually enjoy trying to piece things together and coming up with my own conclusions. If Anet’s story differs in the end, so be it. As long as it makes sense. And since we haven’t reached the end yet, none of us can pass judgment on it to that effect. It’s the same as the hate that Trahearne gets, which IMO is unfounded. People say he stole the credit. Well, I didn’t see the entirety of Fort Trinity saluting Trahearne running along side me as I entered. In fact, he wasn’t there. I was the center of the story the whole time. I know it, Trahearne knew it, and so did everyone else. Only a few lines throughout the story actually put Trahearne ahead of me, and those were far outshadowed.
I don’t see “hi I’m bad because it’s fun and I can do everything and anything.” I’m seeing a bunch of fingers of a single story where this villain has set up a multi-pronged assault on the world. I might also look at it and see where she’s performing ever-more-elaborate experiments with dragon energies which will finally culminate in a rather epic battle, which might even lead us directly into the next elder dragon conflict looming on the horizon. This fractal update gave us a glimpse into the origins of Scarlet’s story, her mindset, and the circumstances leading her to be an archetypical “Mad Scientist” character. And we all should know that Mad Scientists don’t necessarily need to reveal their entire plot to the audience at the outset of the story. I, for one, like secrets revealed slowly and gradually. Where you see a lack of depth, I see a dark pool of possibilities being illuminated slowly as we descend. Try to take things on a little more than face value, and you might be pleasantly surprised.
I believe her backstory makes her more than capable of being the mastermind behind everything. One does not need to be a fire-breathing hulk of a demigod in order to single-handedly orchestrate a series of unfortunate events. I can see where that can be a problem for some GW1 fans, being as the lynchpin of all of the bad goings-on in that story was a God. But this living story isn’t exactly save-the-world-from-ultimate-destruction levels, either.
The richness of her character is seen in the speculation of why she’s doing what she’s doing. Then again, I’m the sort of intellectual person who doesn’t need things spelled out for me every step of the way and repeated 5 times an hour.
Aaaaaaaand now you’re attempting to insult my intelligence because of a difference in opinion. This debate is now over.
Agreed.
We do not like Scarlet Briar!
^This
Honestly I am just getting tired of her. Ended up just skipping out on the two previous living stories and I am really hoping she is not going to be part of Wintersday.
I just did not feel that compelled to login and finish the meta achieves. Although I may give Fractured a try.
Jadis Narnia-Sylvari Ranger of [EDGE]
Dragonbrand
Dragonbrand
(edited by Zalani.9827)
DIE DIE DIE. DIE DIE DIE. DIE DIE DIE!
But yeah, I get where you’re coming from. Played through Spec Ops: The Line not long ago; that was a blast and a half.
That is exactly how you write a story for a videogame. But that’s awareness on a whole new level, knowing and exploring not just the subject of your writing, but also the medium you’re working in. Even if first part was done right in GW2, it’d be a start.
At any rate, I doubt Scarlet will actually make it to trial to answer for her crimes, and if she does, she’ll just teleport out of the courtroom. LATER TATER
I have a bad feeling that the writers expected her to be a recurring, never-ending villain because, gosh, how could anyone NOT adore their amazingly perfect super-brainiac Mary Sue?.. Surely people will want to see more and more of her till the end of time…
The richness of her character is seen in the speculation of why she’s doing what she’s doing. Then again, I’m the sort of intellectual person who doesn’t need things spelled out for me every step of the way and repeated 5 times an hour.
Aaaaaaaand now you’re attempting to insult my intelligence because of a difference in opinion. This debate is now over.
I just call it how I see it. There’s a reason why most hollywood blockbusters are the intellectually-challenged summer shoot-em-ups. There’s a reason why movies such as Step Brothers and the Hangover are at the top of the comedy popularity ladder. There’s a reason why independent films with high critical acclaim are typically understated at the box office. This reason is that the majority of the audience lacks the attention span or mental capacity to actually think while watching a movie.
The same goes for games. “Character richness” is now defined by how much of their story is told to you up front, not by how much is concealed and revealed later on.
Agreed, stop Scarlet!
I’m willing to bet that a good majority of Scarlet haters wouldn’t hate her if the game itself had been as big and as convoluted a mess as what the forums were making it out to be before it was even released.
Maybe you don’t remember, but Trahearne was getting almost as much hate as Scarlet. And rightfully so. They’re horrible characters, they’re horribly presented, and they outright don’t belong where they are in the game.
See, people aren’t quite as stupid as Hollywood and Activision think they are. Just because we buy tickets to bad shows doesn’t mean we’re not going to talk about how stupid it was afterwards.
Tell me: if you were to improve Scarlet’s story as we’ve seen it so far, how would you do it?
Retcon is the only solution to problems of this magnitude.
Whoever allowed this to happen should be fired. Whoever was responsible, crucified. And I’m only exaggerating about one of the two.
(edited by Draco.2806)
I have a bad feeling that the writers expected her to be a recurring, never-ending villain because, gosh, how could anyone NOT adore their amazingly perfect super-brainiac Mary Sue?.. Surely people will want to see more and more of her till the end of time…
Perfect? She’s absolutely batty! And as demonstrated at Queen’s Jubilee, she’s far from unstoppable in combat. Just because what she has planned is unexpected and catches players by surprise, and she has the presence of mind to have an escape plan, doesn’t mean she’s flawless or omnipotent in any way. Sometimes you have a villain such as Moriarty (remember that guy? super genius, hand in every pot, hardly revealed at all for the first few DECADES of his existence…arguably one of the greatest villains in all of literature?) who just seems to be everywhere at once and always one step ahead of the protagonist. This is how I see Scarlet.
Perfect? She’s absolutely batty!
A characteristic many see as attractive. Bad example.
And as demonstrated at Queen’s Jubilee, she’s far from unstoppable in combat.
Escaped without a trace of sweat or injury after single-handedly man-handling a huge zerg of epic heroes.
…catches players by surprise…
Actually this here is the root of problem.
You can’t tell players how to feel. Just because you make out your plot to be as if the player was “caught by surprise”, doesn’t mean he was. In fact, no one was. Scarlet is a predictable disappointment. Her existence is nothing more than annoyance.
This is how I see Scarlet.
And you shouldn’t extrapolate your views on others, either. This is where objectivity comes in, both for you and for ANet’s writers.
As a writer, you have to learn to recognize when you like a bad thing despite its flaws, or when you hate a good thing because of you don’t even know what. If you can’t do that, you end up writing horrible shlock and gasping in horror as people justifiably pile on to hate it.
As a writer, you need to get a grasp of understanding of other people if, after all, you’re writing for the sake of their enjoyment.
“Oh no, no, no – but see, there’s a reason my character should be loved! Here, have more reasons!”
You don’t just try to justify failure. You fix it.
If you want your story to be welcomed, don’t defend it, just do it right in the first place.
(edited by Draco.2806)
A characteristic many see as attractive. Bad example.
Escaped without a trace of sweat or injury after single-handedly man-handling a huge zerg of epic heroes.
Actually this here is the root of problem.
You can’t tell players how to feel. Just because you make out your plot to be as if the player was “caught by surprise”, doesn’t mean he was. In fact, no one was. Scarlet is a predictable disappointment. Her existence is nothing more than annoyance.
And you shouldn’t extrapolate your views on others, either. This is where objectivity comes in.
As a writer, you have to learn to recognize when you like a bad thing despite its flaws, or why you hate a good thing because you can’t help it.
If you can’t do that, you end up writing horrible shlock and gasping in horror as people justifiably pile on to hate it.
“Oh no, no, no – but see, there’s a reason my character should be loved! Here, have more reasons!”
You don’t just try to justify failure. You fix it.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over. What might start out slow, or flawed, to some might end up being part of a bigger picture later on where its true self shines. Who knows until it’s over?
Batkitten crazy might be seen as appealing, but it’s far from perfect. Some people might see a scatophile as appealing, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a character flaw by all natural rules.
Nobody in GW2 is an epic hero. That’s the point I think some people are missing about GW2’s story, even when it’s presented front and center at just about every turn: TEAMWORK is key. When you go in solo, that’s when you fail. When your team falls apart, the mission falls apart. Nobody is, kitten eloquently put to me in another thread on here, a “special snowflake”. All characters can fail. Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.
Oh, and I solo’d Scarlet on my thief without breaking any more of a sweat.
The idea of being surprised by Scarlet isn’t that you’re surprised that Scarlet was behind it, but it’s what you’re being surprised WITH. While it may at times be fundamentally predictable (“who’s going to team up this time?”, nobody could have predicted before the previews that the Krait and the Nightmare Court would team up. Same with flame legion and dredge. The fact that Scarlet can orchestrate such alliances alone is evidence to her abilities. The fact that they are so fundamentally flawed that a handful of “epic heroes” can put a stop to it means that she’s not perfect at all…that they’re simply failed experiments. She can’t be a Mary Sue if she’s not perfect at what she does.
I’m not extrapolating my views. I’m simply using my real-world experiences to apply a label to the majority of video game players as short-sighted fools who need things spelled out for them, and I am giving Anet the benefit of the doubt that they’re building something that bucks that trend, and forces players to either think about it, or fall behind.
If I’m wrong, then so be it.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
Yes. Yes we can.
Batkitten crazy might be seen as appealing, but it’s far from perfect.
Quirkiness is common component of Mary Sues. It’s absolutely transparent.
Nobody in GW2 is an epic hero.
If by “nobody” you mean “everybody”. Mary Sues and one-dimensional heroics populate Guild Wars lore like angry locusts.
That’s the point I think some people are missing about GW2’s story, even when it’s presented front and center at just about every turn: TEAMWORK is key.
Well, yeah, we’re missing it because that theme has been just as well-developed as nothing.
Personally, I counted on this one. Using unity and teamwork in an MMO setting would show awareness of the medium. That wasn’t true.
Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.
Yes, and four impossible degrees, being a genius, a prodigy, a superhero, a living talk, having a dozen armies at her disposal because she’ll kick their kitten if they don’t obey because she’s so scary and powerful. So her only strength, then, is being God.
Honestly, stop it. Why are you defending this twig? You’re not going to make anyone like her. Even if people don’t know the reasons they hate her, they’re still perfectly right. If people don’t like the story to such a degree they’re actively complaining about the quality of writing, it’s all over.
…I’m simply using my real-world experiences to apply a label to the majority of video game players as short-sighted fools…
And yet they see through the paper-thin shroud of horrible writing so much better than you do.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.
Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.
Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.
The fact that the story is about her means you dislike the story, because you dislike her.
This isn’t exactly a stretch.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.
Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.
The fact that the story is about her means you dislike the story, because you dislike her.
This isn’t exactly a stretch.
The stretch is that you are taking my saying that a poor character is ruining a story as me saying that the story is bad for reasons other than the character it is based around.
I don’t even know why I didn’t stop responding to you when I originally said I would, because you’re completely illogical and impossible to argue with.
You can’t tell if a character is a failure until the story is over.
That’s like saying that you can’t tell if a meal at a restaurant was well-prepared until you’re finished eating the whole thing.
Which is a terrible point that is completely incorrect. A bad steak will taste bad with the first bite.
I’ve never had a meal with plot twists. Which many a critic has claimed to be the saving grace of a slow-starting story.
I don’t get how you’re missing the part where I’ve explained that it’s not the story itself that people don’t like. It’s the character. What they do with the plot is completely irrelevant because I already don’t like Scarlet.
And you said you didn’t like Scarlet because of the story/plot that she’s a part of, as well as her part in it. If you want to be taken seriously with your criticisms, you might want to get your arguments straight. Otherwise, it just seems like you’ve made your mind up on predeterminations based on your opinion of the game’s story in general. Which is pretty analogous to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming LALALALALALA.
Please quote me where I said that I dislike Scarlet because of the story apart from her involvement in it, and then I might consider taking you seriously. Because I don’t like debating against a strawman argument.
The fact that the story is about her means you dislike the story, because you dislike her.
This isn’t exactly a stretch.
The stretch is that you are taking my saying that a poor character is ruining a story as me saying that the story is bad for reasons other than the character it is based around.
I don’t even know why I didn’t stop responding to you when I originally said I would, because you’re completely illogical and impossible to argue with.
Ironic.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
I’m not the kinda person that cares about lore or anything. But sometimes I just stumble upon some GW1 story, and read a bit about it and think darn, why can’t GW2 have some of that instead of Scarlet? Then I might actually care about what’s going on instead of skipping every cutscene.
Bläck Dähliä
Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.
Yes, and four impossible degrees, being a genius, a prodigy, a superhero, a living talk, having a dozen armies at her disposal because she’ll kick their kitten if they don’t obey because she’s so scary and powerful. So her only strength, then, is being God.
I like how AKGeo ignores this point, describing some of the character’s worst qualities.
If I am to fight God, I do not want God to be some clown that constantly spews annoying nonsense. I do not want to see God do petty and childish things like boil Faren in a cauldron. That sort of lame god belongs in a farce or children’s cartoon. I want to fight a mighty being of great majesty.
If Scarlet is not God, then the writers make her far too powerful and talented. Her backstory is awkward. Prodigy at everything? Unlikely. Makes me go o_O. Leading three armies of disparate, wildly xenophobic, very violent races/factions? She has no charisma, gravitas, or even an imposing aura. She is a silly clown that says dumb things, not a drop of leadership material in her character. Unlikely, unless this is a children’s cartoon. Her abilities and social position are qualities of a Mary Sue otherwise. Her role in the story feels unnatural, forced and awkward.
The story has so far consisted of Scarlet trolling Tyria with the minion flavor of the week. The villain’s maturity is on the level of a bad Youtube commenter. It feels like a Super Sentai show, without the awesome giant robots. Minimal exposition and details, no complex character/plot relationships.
It doesn’t matter what they might have planned, so far the storytelling has just been bad. I will judge the future when it arrives.
(edited by voidwater.2064)
If they do turn around and say “BUT SCARLET WAS GOOD ALL ALONG, GUYS” then it’ll just prove that this writing team has gone completely down the toilet.
Do you really perceive those things as her being an evil person?
What did she do to impact me or the world around me so that I’d consider her evil? Nothing. She provides me with nice easy loot, and at times easy achievement points. She’s Santa Scarlet, in a way.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Another pointless Scarlet thread…
I’m sure they got the message after the first hundred threads on the same subject. Now, people are just rabbling on with the Scarlet hate for rabbling’s sake. They have seen, heard, and read all what the players think about her, but there is nothing much that can be changed on the matter. They have already plotted out her arc and her finale, and in a short time; they will start go into designing it, if they haven’t already.
Any walls of texts about how Scarlet is a bad character, is towards a wall, because it’s hard to stop a moving train.
(edited by Erukk.1408)
She’s a filler villain, only there to give their teams more time while they make a villain worth my time.
I was going to go with a “You are Small Time” with Lex Luthor addressing Scarlet, but yeah Mid-Boss works!
Elona, Land of the Golden Sun….and undead…and poison. The travel brochure lied okay?!
If they do turn around and say “BUT SCARLET WAS GOOD ALL ALONG, GUYS” then it’ll just prove that this writing team has gone completely down the toilet.
Do you really perceive those things as her being an evil person?
What did she do to impact me or the world around me so that I’d consider her evil? Nothing. She provides me with nice easy loot, and at times easy achievement points. She’s Santa Scarlet, in a way.
um
what?
less silly
Nalhadia – Kaineng
Scarlet’s only advantage is surprise and numbers.
Yes, and four impossible degrees, being a genius, a prodigy, a superhero, a living talk, having a dozen armies at her disposal because she’ll kick their kitten if they don’t obey because she’s so scary and powerful. So her only strength, then, is being God.
I like how AKGeo ignores this point, describing some of the character’s worst qualities.
If I am to fight God, I do not want God to be some clown that constantly spews annoying nonsense. I do not want to see God do petty and childish things like boil Faren in a cauldron. That sort of lame god belongs in a farce or children’s cartoon. I want to fight a mighty being of great majesty.
If Scarlet is not God, then the writers make her far too powerful and talented. Her backstory is awkward. Prodigy at everything? Unlikely. Makes me go o_O. Leading three armies of disparate, wildly xenophobic, very violent races/factions? She has no charisma, gravitas, or even an imposing aura. She is a silly clown that says dumb things, not a drop of leadership material in her character. Unlikely, unless this is a children’s cartoon. Her abilities and social position are qualities of a Mary Sue otherwise. Her role in the story feels unnatural, forced and awkward.
The story has so far consisted of Scarlet trolling Tyria with the minion flavor of the week. The villain’s maturity is on the level of a bad Youtube commenter. It feels like a Super Sentai show, without the awesome giant robots. Minimal exposition and details, no complex character/plot relationships.
It doesn’t matter what they might have planned, so far the storytelling has just been bad. I will judge the future when it arrives.
You seriously think an evil genius who got the drop on everyone by flying under the radar with previously poorly-understood races, all of whom are enemies, enough to create alliances that nobody thought were ever possible, is even close to God, you’ve got a problem.
They’re still in the buildup phase. Have you done the Aetherpath? Probably not, considering most players refuse to do content in this game if it has anything at all to do with Scarlet Briar. If you did, you’d have a few small insights into Scarlet’s general plans, where you and Destiny’s Edge come in, etc. The new fractal gives us insight into the origin of her insanity. I’m sure if there’s anything missing, Anet will fill us in.
I’m also pretty sure that constantly blasting them on the story based on…what? The fact that you don’t get your closure 3 weeks after a villain is introduced? Is going to encourage Anet to try any harder on giving you any quality content. Most of you kittenes are giving the impression that no matter what they give us, you’re going to hate it all the same. Pathetic.
(edited by AKGeo.6048)
Another point:
If the game starts out with the player defeating Cthulhu, the players should not be forced to fight the Joker and his minions for almost a year.
The sense of scale/enormity is disrupted. Either make the villain more epic, or move the story along faster.
Another point:
If the game starts out with the player defeating Cthulhu, the players should not be forced to fight the Joker and his minions for almost a year.
The sense of scale/enormity is disrupted. Either make the villain more epic, or move the story along faster.
I can understand this point, and especially the latter portion.
But you can’t expect Anet to constantly ramp up the scale of the enemies without having a period of, for lack of a better word, lull in the action.
That’s also assuming that Scarlet doesn’t actually possess the abilities to be as much of a threat to the world as an elder dragon, just in a different way, and these abilities have yet to manifest.
So I guess the solution here is not to retcon scarlet, but to give us a big push in the story so we can actually get things moving a little bit. I guess I can make that concession.
But to say that she’s a worthless enemy without knowing the full scope of her threat?
The difference with Kormir, Shiro, and Khilbron is that they show weakness one way or the other, they are not immortal.
Scarlet is just annoying, boring and immortal and is everywhere.
Hopefully, in the future, we might be able to look back to this and laugh at how bad it was while we are playing through an awesome story.
I played the original GW back in the nether days of 2005, and I think Khilbron was well-written. Sure he turned out to be the bad guy, but we got to interact with him as a sort of ally until he revealed his true motives. He wasn’t just sprung upon us as the leader of the titans and worshiper of Abbadon, and we weren’t expected to read interviews with the game’s writers and short stories on the GW website to understand his motives.
Scarlet came out of nowhere with no in-game explanation and no chance for our characters to get to know her character beforehand, and all of a sudden we’ve got a character whose lines and story would make Dr. Robotnik blush.
Shiro was a pretty good villain though, even if written with a horribly cheesy script.
I find dragons as the momentum behind a fantasy story “lame”. It’s overdone
Fair point, however I’m working with what we’ve got as far as impressionable enemies are concerned and at this time elder dragons give you a greater sense of foreboding and a sense of excitement than anything Scarlett has to offer.
It’s subjective but you shouldn’t be saying Scarlett and dragons are the same, because they’re not. Dragons, while having been done to death offer a lot more and offer far greater scope than the Mary Sue does. Even from a concept piece of art perspective the construction of branded mobs from elder dragons that have changed the landscape is much more fascinating. Why aren’t we seeing them more flushed out?
Rather than talk about what you don’t want, lets talk about what you do want.
A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?
This resonates with me.
Lore has to be consistent so that it’s followers can appreciate it however it can do just about anything because if your the developer, you create it.
It’s a fantasy game you could literally come up with some impressing, other worldly creature that strikes you with a sense of awe and excitement to meet and fight. Rather than a Mary Sue with a British accent…
It’s a failure to imagine.
A warrior, a guardian, and an elementalist walk into an open field…
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
The Warrior turns to the guardian and says, “Did you hear something?”
Guardian replies, “No, but how’d the elementalist die?”
Dragons? What’s dragons?
But to say that she’s a worthless enemy without knowing the full scope of her threat?
If I see a loaf of moldy bread, I am not going to wait for the mold to disappear. The bread goes straight into the garbage bin. It is permanently tainted. Putting awesome cheeses and meats and spreads on the moldy bread will not save it. Unless Scarlet gets retconned, the mold is there.
But you can’t expect Anet to constantly ramp up the scale of the enemies without having a period of, for lack of a better word, lull in the action.
I expect Anet to make enemies that aren’t implausible and childish. I like how your post doesn’t address those points, and instead you resort to ad hominems.
You seriously think an evil genius who got the drop on everyone by flying under the radar with previously poorly-understood races, all of whom are enemies, enough to create alliances that nobody thought were ever possible, is even close to God, you’ve got a problem.
Calling her God is slight tongue-in-cheek, but thanks for rephrasing why she’s a badly constructed, overpowered fanfiction character.
That’s also assuming that Scarlet doesn’t actually possess the abilities to be as much of a threat to the world as an elder dragon, just in a different way, and these abilities have yet to manifest.
Sounds like you look forward to Scarlet’s apotheosis. I don’t.
They’re still in the buildup phase. Have you done the Aetherpath? Probably not, considering most players refuse to do content in this game if it has anything at all to do with Scarlet Briar. If you did, you’d have a few small insights into Scarlet’s general plans, where you and Destiny’s Edge come in, etc. The new fractal gives us insight into the origin of her insanity. I’m sure if there’s anything missing, Anet will fill us in.
I’m also pretty sure that constantly blasting them on the story based on…what? The fact that you don’t get your closure 3 weeks after a villain is introduced? Is going to encourage Anet to try any harder on giving you any quality content. Most of you kittenes are giving the impression that no matter what they give us, you’re going to hate it all the same. Pathetic.
I’ve done the Aetherpath, the story and exposition were not particularly engaging. The settings and gameplay are great, the story is not. If I hated their content, I would not be playing this game anymore. The pacing is a secondary concern, the character is implausible and childish, right now.
You assume that anyone who disagrees with you is unreasonable, inferior, or ignorant, you are the most pathetic of all.
Get over yourself, liking Scarlet does not make you a great intellectual, you just have low standards. Go share a can of Pabst with Scarlet.
(edited by voidwater.2064)
People dont you get it? Devs dont have time to make something new thats why they keep giving us this elementary school level villain.
Scarlet is very unnatural and not suited for the role of a world evil she should die already!
Probably people would not be all pleased with any given character on place of Scarlet but we still should get someone new!
Dont use Scarlet as a filler for every scenario spot!
It doesn’t matter what I think. I found step brothers to be funny and I hate scarlet; therefore I’m lowbrow. According to AKG anyways. :P
Hopefully this thread maintains the constructive criticism these forums require and not be deleted.
I really enjoy this game for a lot of reasons, from dodge rolling to WvW. The world was rich an immerse the moment I stepped foot into it. Once I caught up on the lore by playing Guild Wars 1, I really appreciated the story.
Then a weed named Scarlet was introduced. Sure, she felt a bit wacky, but I was okay with it at first. Then she started cropping up in everything, and it began to feel forced and unoriginal.
Now she is behind the Thaumanova Reactor and there are aether-looking items around the world with a sign saying “DO NOT TOUCH” (clearly of Scarlet design), and I’m just done.
ArenaNet writers, your players are speaking to you.
Listen closely; this is the important part:
We do not like Scarlet Briar!
I have enjoyed the Scarlet content so far but you can only take this story line so far. I really hope the next installment of living story puts an end to this story arc. It’s time to see something new
Another point:
If the game starts out with the player defeating Cthulhu, the players should not be forced to fight the Joker and his minions for almost a year.
My reaction EVERY time I have seen scarlet, except the first time is this
So that point, exactly.
Another point:
If the game starts out with the player defeating Cthulhu, the players should not be forced to fight the Joker and his minions for almost a year.
The sense of scale/enormity is disrupted. Either make the villain more epic, or move the story along faster.
I can understand this point, and especially the latter portion.
But you can’t expect Anet to constantly ramp up the scale of the enemies without having a period of, for lack of a better word, lull in the action.
That’s also assuming that Scarlet doesn’t actually possess the abilities to be as much of a threat to the world as an elder dragon, just in a different way, and these abilities have yet to manifest.
So I guess the solution here is not to retcon scarlet, but to give us a big push in the story so we can actually get things moving a little bit. I guess I can make that concession.
But to say that she’s a worthless enemy without knowing the full scope of her threat?
…Is completely accurate. You realize in the game she’s most likely still a teenager? The first sylvari awakened 24 years before gw1. Game year 1326. First sylvari arrive 1302. At maximum she’s 24, and she’s not on the list of original awakened in the lore, which she would be if she was as actually important as they’ve been making her out to be.
People really need to stop comparing her to Harley Quinn.
Harley Quinn doesn’t go about Gotham city being revealed to be the cause of everything “just because.”
If Scarlet is Harley Quinn, who is her Mistah J?
Jesus Christ, was Kormir not enough of a lesson?
/endrant
PLOT TWIST,
SCARLET is really MASTER TOGO!
Riding the world of scumbags who called him weak!
I don’t think that its Scarlet thats the bad thing, i think its the continual Scarlet story. There are sooooo many other stories and mysteries to explore that just seeing this one for an entire year is a bit of a drag…
We know what the dwarves have been doing. Gargoyles, while an enemy type, never really had that much for them being interesting.
Glint’s baby/other dragons would actually be interesting to see. Crystal desert is part home to elder dragon, part lush area now cause the redirected river.
Movement of the world kinda establishes what Elonians or Canthans are doing. Hedge of Denravi you actually can VISIT ingame. It’s near the ruins of Fort Koga. White mantle likewise is touched upon in certain human storylines.(though they apparently have some islands with names referencing white mantle/mursaat).
How Rytlock got the sword would be interesting, but I doubt it’d be worthy of a chunk of Living story.
Where the sceptor of Orr went? Possibly interesting. Why Tequatl is growing stronger? We know the champions are fully intelligent. Perhaps this is just an effect of Zhaitan being killed/put back to sleep. Extra magical energy is going to his champions. Possibly interesting.
Caithe’s background. Maybe. Canach? Who cares. he is in prison. I’m more interested in the Sylvari from their storyline that came from another tree.
“E” doesn’t sound like Scarlet at all. Simply because when have see seen Scarlet actually be helpful to anybody?
Not to bash you at all, but some of these mysteries are… less interesting to me (and possibly others) then others. I’d rather see stuff about Glint’s children and eggs then gargoyles. Being honest, I’d rather hear about how Rytlock got his sword then where the sceptor of Orr went (because I’d see people trying to claim it/say their characters have it). Scarlet’s story has a planned end. I’m going to bet after that we’ll see something with dragons again. I do hope they release any new storyline with a dragon as a personal story since that is more major then Scarlet (and allowing people to experience it after the release of the next part).
Angel or Scarlet? In a sense, I would say both. For Angel, we got this whole thread dedicated on how Angel basically retcon or twisted the lore of Guild Wars 1 to its knees.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview
Scarlet? There is a laundry list of lore breaking alliance, how she is accepted as a student to a bunch of racist characters in the stories so easily, and basically sticking the middle finger at the Asura Lore and how she get to learn from all the college, get to see their religion, and said she is the smartest person in the world. These stuff are mention, repeatedly, in any of the Scarlet thread out there. That audio interview did not change my view of her and it gets a lot worse from then on.
I’m unsure how she retconned most of GW1’s lore with that. but oh well.
A: Molten alliance. Dredge and Flame legion were on shaky terms at the best during the whole affair, and afterwards it seems to have shattered soundly.
B: Aeteherblades. formed from (supposedly) sky pirates and inquest, but the only group showing REAL fear of her.
C: toxic Alliance. as I’ve seen it, it seems to be an alliance of “Both groups believe they are simply using the other for their goals.” The Krait want to bring back their prophets. The Sylvari just want chaos. And the fact INGAME it’s treated as odd. It’s not as if everybody in the world accepts it. Everybody else is like “This is REALLY odd for the Krait”. Infact, it may simply be that SINGLE group of Krait who allied with the Nightmare Court.
D: What racist people did she tutor under bar the inquest? who she went to AFTER getting the ‘degrees’ in the various colleges. Infact, ALL the other ones accepted her as a student without issue or complaint. Besides the Asura. Who she worked to impress. The Inquest as I’ve seen it isn’t xenophobic, they just don’t let morals get in the way of simply experimenting on other people all the time.
E: first off, she basically took a SINGLE SEMESTER/course worth of each collage, and was treated as a curiosity by the Asura council. As noted in the one audio interview, she MAY have seen it, or she may have simply gone insane and imagined the entire thing. She is hardly the smartest person in the world (She believes it, others do not), and her entire backstory outisde of her first learnings with the Sylvari is pretty much a “I stick around for a little bit, learn some stuff, then move on.” The Norn and Charr both treat her as if she is leaving before learning everything she can. The Asura case explicitly said she took a single semester worth of classes. She was with the Inquest for a VERY short time, and the Hylek a short-medium time.
If I am to fight God, I do not want God to be some clown that constantly spews annoying nonsense. I do not want to see God do petty and childish things like boil Faren in a cauldron. That sort of lame god belongs in a farce or children’s cartoon. I want to fight a mighty being of great majesty.
If Scarlet is not God, then the writers make her far too powerful and talented. Her backstory is awkward. Prodigy at everything? Unlikely. Makes me go o_O. Leading three armies of disparate, wildly xenophobic, very violent races/factions? She has no charisma, gravitas, or even an imposing aura. She is a silly clown that says dumb things, not a drop of leadership material in her character. Unlikely, unless this is a children’s cartoon. Her abilities and social position are qualities of a Mary Sue otherwise.
Her role in the story feels unnatural, forced and awkward.
The story has so far consisted of Scarlet trolling Tyria with the minion flavor of the week. The villain’s maturity is on the level of a bad Youtube commenter. It feels like a Super Sentai show, without the awesome giant robots. Minimal exposition and details, no complex character/plot relationships.
It doesn’t matter what they might have planned, so far the storytelling has just been bad. I will judge the future when it arrives.
I think you’ve just said everything there is to say.
I’d probably need a couple dozen pages to explain just what exactly is wrong with this whole debacle. This is much more concise.
Lore has to be consistent so that it’s followers can appreciate it however it can do just about anything because if your the developer, you create it.
It’s a fantasy game you could literally come up with some impressing, other worldly creature that strikes you with a sense of awe and excitement to meet and fight. Rather than a Mary Sue with a British accent…
It’s a failure to imagine.
In my book, that is the worst of failures a writer could ever be accused of.
When you’re in charge of writing a book, filming a movie, or making a game, your only limitations ought to be technical skills and limitations – not your lack of creativity.
I feel that so many things in GW2 can be ascribed to failure of imagination.
Sure, as a creator, sometimes you try and you fail – but first you have to try. It doesn’t really feel like they’re even trying.
I like Scarlet.
but the story is getting ridiculous with her being behind every kitten plot.
Basically this. There are other bad guys in the game. Let them come up with an evil plan every once in a while. Plus the whole going back and making stuff that already happened before scarlet was around her idea… It’s like if DC went back and said the joker killed batman’s parents. And created the riddler. And scarecrow. And poison Ivy. Along with all of the other villains in the DC universe.
She is/was an interesting character, but it’s not interesting anymore if EVERY plot is Scarlet. I mean at this rate, next month they’ll probably tell us that Zhaitan and Abaddon were just giant marionettes with Scarlet literally pulling the strings. It’s out of control.
People really need to stop comparing her to Harley Quinn.
Harley Quinn doesn’t go about Gotham city being revealed to be the cause of everything “just because.”
If Scarlet is Harley Quinn, who is her Mistah J?Jesus Christ, was Kormir not enough of a lesson?
/endrant
Actually I think Harley Quinn is a great comparison to make with Scarlet. Furthermore, it’s those differences that you mentioned that are what breaks the immersion with the current story we are being presented with.
Harley Quinn works as a character with that personality because she’s NOT all-powerful, she’s not holding all of the cards, and she is shown to be a vulnerable character through her almost Stockholm Syndrome type relationship with the Joker. That’s what makes her believable despite the fact that she acts like a clown, both figuratively and literally.
Scarlet has none of those qualities. Scarlet is a Mary Sue trying to fit into the shoes of a ubiquitous master of puppets, which is why she is not believable or relatable, and why people don’t like her.
This game desperately needs a real villain with a real threat. Enough with the childish garbage.
Yea.. Like maybe another dragon to fight..
Also.. Signed.. I hate scarlet as well..
~ Rizalee – Human Mesmer ~
~ Rizzae – Asura Guardian ~
Tarnished Coast Server
~ Rizzae – Asura Guardian ~
Tarnished Coast Server